wwhat level of programming fluency is it when you cant do anything

>>60359654
sound pretty much like normal fluency

File: mio is cute 218.jpg (2MB, 1993x3009px)

2MB, 1993x3009px

heck yes adding "fluent in perl and c" to my resume ty

>>60359654
If you have to google basic things, you don't know them.

internship, or senior/lead dev at web startups

If you get an interview you can just study the language for a few days and write some code with it so things are more fresh in your memory.

>>60359654
Aside from like 5 functions I use all the time, I just look them up in the reference manual.

>>60359654
Bootcamp/Indian level.

>>60359654
googling is a key skill at all levels. but copy pasting without understanding is beginner

The difference between you and an actual developer is your strength in basic CS concepts like data structures and algorithms. Yes you may know how to google syntax/functions/libraries/whatever, but only someone with a deep understanding of CS can know the strengths and weaknesses. Here's a hint, if the words "big O" are foreign to you, you have a lot to learn.

>>60360943
>i learned about linked lists
>i'm a computer scientist now!

fuck off

>>60361443
ok

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291KB, 983x1445px

>>60360943
Oh please, every real nigga watched big O

>>60359654
Honestly if stack overflow can actually answer every question you have about a program, then you aren't writing very complicated code.

>>60361509
Well, considering that complicated code is just stitched together pieces of comparatively simpler code, you usually just need to figure out how you're using a particular function wrong.

>>60359654
Entry-tier skiddie level.

>>60359654
That's typical developer proficiency at most companies, from what I've seen

>>60360943
It doesn't matter if an "actual developer" knows more data structures an algorithms if the end result is same shit.

The trick, OP, is to fool others into believing you can do what "actual developer" can do. This is when you can be considered a fully fluent developer. If you're relying on google for examples, then you're at basic level.

If you're simply copy-pasting without understanding what the function does, then you're skiddie level.

>>60360943
fucking undergrad freshman

>>60361900
>if the end result is same shit.
But it's not. the retard script kiddie OP will use bubble sort when there's far better sorting algorithms out there and will go crying to his mom when gets fired because sorting the companies dataset of 200k elements took a day and half when someone with an actual CS education can do it in 30 seconds. I mean this is okay if you're a "developer" at some half baked IT department at an ordinary company's secondary office/warehouse. But for actual developers this is BASIC shit.

>>60361983
How often are you reimplementing quicksort or mergesort for your production projects?

>>60362020
Never but I know when to use them.

>>60361983
You will be fired too, because a senior developer will use a library with sorting algorithms instead of writing it by hand in order to do not waste working time.

>>60362028
Fair enough.

>>60362049
see
>>60362028

>>60362028
A sane lead won't give him tasks which require knowledge of sorting algorithms, usually they know what a developer can and what he can not and they distribute tasks accordingly. That's why the pajeet outsource exists.

>>60362055
Moreover, CS doesn't teach you what sorting algorithms to use, CS teaches methods for designing algorithms: recursion, divide & conquer, dynamic programming, linear programming, space and time complexity: sorting and graph algorithms are just examples how to apply those methods.

>>60362175
>CS doesn't teach you what sorting algorithms to use
A major part of the curriculum of any good CS program teaches algorithm analysis. It would be trivial to be assigned a task and program it and know what methods are best if you have any grasp of CS. You've said it yourself, space and time complexity. On an embedded system, I would design an algorithm that makes an acceptable trade off between memory and speed, but on systems where the memory constraint is lessened, we can optimize for time complexity. This is just one example out of many that prove CS education is invaluable to a developer and his employer. We haven't even touched on data structures.

This is all getting off the point. Copy and pasting snippets from stack overflow doesn't even reach the level of developer competency we're talking about here.

>>60362271
It's useful indeed but in the modern programming it's often more valuable to know frameworks, tools, working environment and how to use them properly. The majority of problems are already solved and implemented, one has merely to plug it properly to a project.

It's more efficient in terms of spent time and outcome. If one has a lot of experience in networking, Linux or Windows internals, knows particular Java framework he can make his job better than a bloke who has memorised a bag of sorting algorithms in pseudocode. OP doesn't want to research AI for embedded system he wants to do mainstream code which has already optimised for pajeets.

>>60362271
Here's a nice article about that
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11628080

>>60362455
I would trust the person with a 4 year degree to learn the tools and framework faster than someone who does not. I would also trust the person with the degree to understand the rationale behind the tools/framework. Therefore if new technology comes along he can understand what to choose. Of course, if someone can reasonably show they understand /why/ the tools were chosen, showed passion for programming and learning, and knew the ins and outs of the tools, even without the degree I would gladly choose them. Just not someone who copy and pastes shit he doesn't understand from stack overflow. I hope we can at least agree on this point.

>>60362551
I agree. I don't want to diminish CS education, I'm trying to point out that there's a lot of social factors, labour market, funding and so forth which are coming into play. Employees and their skills are also a sort of trade off in order to make job done efficiently.

>>60359654
>google to right words
>to
>right words

Back to the burger barn you must go.

looking up reference manuals, SDK docs is different from copy-pasting answers from SO.
you're only a quack if you don't really get why it works.

>>60359654
Pajeet code monkey tier.
I use google too but I only need it for more complex things

>>60359654
"Enterprise"

>>60362091
>freshman
>intern at local game studio
>improve 4-way radix sort, k? oh and it has to be in-place