>third "women in STEM" event this month on my university

If they cared enough to use their feminine charms to woo nerdy guys into doing their homework, they must care enough to succeed.

So no, they're not "uninterested in it".

>>60099256
In the name of "diversity" and "equality". Women are oppressed snowflakes and need help. There is really no reason to push so hard to get women into tech related fields as the differences in desires of men and women have a deep biological base. This is why Norway is so gender neutral but yet no parity in the fields.

There is no benefit to wider society to having more women in technology. They don't solve some special issues that will benefit at all. Literally only pushes unqualified women into the labor force when they shouldn't be there.
>>60099308
Caring =/= actually being smart
Also women are whores so it's in their nature to woo men and get attention like this. If they were truly interested they would do their damn homework.

>>60099256
I'm not against (semi-)nude women in the workplace as long they don't touch code

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>>60099256
Here in Latvia we have many female programmers and none of that "women in STEM" memery. Approximately 1/4 of my colleagues at the company (300 people) are girls, most of them just as competent as guys.
When your manager is a woman though... you're in for some pain.

>>60099384
>why should i work hard like a sucker when i can just jerk around some nerds to do my homework for me?

I bet you think college is all about education, right?

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Just tell them that they can't force someone into a field that requires 16 hours a day of daily investment in studying and work to become good at,
and that they should think carefully on the feeling females who are already in the field have about their credit for accomplishment being taken by initiatives and groups such as Feminism when both aren't responsible for individual investment and talent.

The 2nd statement already invalidates any arguments against the 1st one.

>>60099477
>why put in effort and not learn
No the main goal of college is the piece of paper you get but the education in between is important.

>>60099256
I don't understand why she is wearing underpants?

This is how I know you are blind hating misogynists.

Instead of showing up and encouraging and meeting some hotties and cuties curious about coding and learning about your hobby/job, which results in you meeting something with an actual vagina who you can develop a shared interest with. Instead of crying lonely tears in to your seed stained love pillow with your mythological waifu every night, you would rather bash them for daring to step in to your world.

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>>60099745
when feminists do it it's not objectification

>literally too dumb to put on pants

>>60099745
>>60099872

Are you telling me you don't code in underwear and nothing else?

>>60099903
If you aren't wearing your programmer socks, you are missing out on the glorious code you could have been writing.

>>60099256
Don't see a reason why you'd need to use DoWhile here. While seems like it would produce the same results. Also there should be an underscore connecting look cute if its supposed to be a function name

while(coding)
{
    look_cute();
}

>whats the point of pushing women into technology when they are uninterested in it?
Ostensibly, to ease the way for those women who are.

Sadly the backlash actually makes it harder than ever. In truth this is all just to make money for "advocates."

>>60099308
Anon if you knew the situation you wouldn't be saying this. Males throw themselves at helping women at any sociable chance. So these males may not literally ask if they need help at risk of offending but help is given liberally when you just ask.
I've been at fault myself. You don't even realise it when you're a kid who hasn't found any female who you could associate to on any level for all your life, and suddenly there's a situation where a female might depend on you where you're both useful and interested.

They genuinely don't have to care. And I'm not saying a woman can get through an entire degree without trying but having this extreme assistance already makes it senseless to give them more favors.

But as a counter point women are often more good at the social aspect. And people often underestimate how valuable that is. Especially in many places where the entire software development team could just have been a single good programmer but the company doesn't recognise that. Having people who are more socially able is a great boon to team efficiency. Regardless of gender of course.

>women want to solve problems

Fucking lol. No, women want to relax and have fun.

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>>60099872
>objectification
You see. Feminism would be a lot more accepted if they adhered with sexual liberation and weren't just another cheap copy of Christian/Islamic sexual puritanism using objectification as an alternative moral excuse.

This objectification shit is in itself hogwash.
How people view other people aesthetically is none of anyone's business just like sexuality is none of any church's/mosque's business.

If women had real interests they would do technical things but they really have real interests or even real insight into the actual horseshit they are "interested" in.
Women are a meme

>>60099982
s/really/rarely/

>>60099495
I disagree. Looking at what you learn at college and comparing it to the potential set I might need at work there's a few things that make the paper almost the only thing you need.
* You can't know if the information from university is good.
Especially the bits concerning the more subjective things. Math is fine, you might need it or not but it's never actually bad. With programming they may teach you harmful knowledge. It changes how you deal with problems and may lead you to be more incompatible with actual practice. Unlearning these things can be difficult. And you have absolutely no way to know what's good and what's bad. If that were the case you would already be an experienced programmer. You go to college because you don't know.
* contacts
They're very useless actually. People often praise them but really it's a carry over from earlier decades. Employers don't have to ask their employees to find suitable people to hire. They ask universities like they always had or they push it on the people asking for jobs to send applications. Getting a job through a friend only happens between experienced friends now. You're not an experienced person when you're done with college.
* useless information
Most of what you learn isn't actually going to be used. Some may claim that having a familiarity with all these topics make you more valuable. And it certainly does. But was the time investment worth it? Back in the 80s or early 90s we didn't have the Internet in the same capacity we do today. Information didn't spread as well as it does today. If you look at how the games industry got up to speed on texture mapping you will realise that its all actually a problem of not communicating well. Up until they get access to usenet there were a lot of odd approaches. Wolfenstein and doom used very constrained movement (camera movement) to avoid issues that had already been solved well. Carmack just didn't know.
This isn't the case anymore. (continued)

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>>60099745
panties for intellectuel womyn

>>60099256
Under the pink Languages sticky note, it lists HTML, CSS, Java, and JavaScript.

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>>60100134

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>>60100156

>>60100156
>>60100134

Okay please stop posting, I didn't come here to see gore

>>60100134
>fat girl has the smallest device to emphasize her weight
That's good character design

>>60100182

>is visisble...
>return true

?????

>>60099256
Serious request: see if your university has ties to Soros. Hungary is going through some shit with a Soros funded university and they want it closed. Last I heard the EU is gonna sue them in some court over it (which should tell you all you need to know).

>>60100228

def is_enabled():
    return True

def is_visable():
    return True

Class ApplicationCommand(Command):
    pass

Great job

>>60100268

I didn't bother to type up the entire thing in code, i was just ???ing at wtf is the point of that unfinished mess

>>60100134
>>60100156
>>60100182

WHY ARE THEY DOING THIS? We know they don't fucking care about anything to do with this shit.

My god, this is that child-like shit when girls just want to do what boys are doing and ruin it for them shit. Women never grow up.

>>60099256
>being this butthurt that he can't get laid
Only in the engineering part of STEM are there more men than women you fucking retard

>>60100282
I was just pointing out how stupid the code is too. It's just pseudo-code to fill space.

>>60099256
Those post its. Fuck man, she's retarded.

>>60100124
Nowadays you can find plenty of literature on virtually any problem you might have. The cutting edge of knowledge isn't a big thing in the industry anymore. If you imagine the software field as a circle with a constant inset of cutting edge programmers the radius of the circle is now so big that that inset is next to insignificant. It's done directly in academia, through company funding (nvidia sponsoring research for instance) or state funding (lots of quality variation but it's something). There isn't really new generally applicable solutions popping up in videogames anymore. There's some super specific things like algorithms for more efficiently supporting thousands of lights in a scene but the people who do this work in any given field count in single digit thousands at most, across the industry.
If you're one of those there was never any questions that you'd go into that industry. You're from the demo scene in the case of interactive media for instance.
For any normal programmer who doesn't work in this fringe situation I'm talking about you don't need most of what you need to learn at college to get your degree. What you need is something assuring your ability. That's either a diploma, a large list of commits to open source projects (or your own projects) or a very convincing interview.

So the education you get is really just an inefficient way of learning what you could learn yourself. I can't speak for the value of a diploma. I haven't seen any good correlation between having one and being a good software developer. Sure, if your set to compare to is literally everyone who don't have one it's great. But you're generally more discerning than that when you're doing interviews. Might be different in other places.

>>60099256
You gotta admit though, the IT field is the only place where Quiessence is kind of a cool/interesting name. Everywhere else it doesnt mean anything and would just be weird.

>>60100304

It's similar to the
cd ..
cd..
cd ..
cd ..

t. coder

>>60099256
there are a ton of women in STEM...they just become medical/health workers instead of scientists/engineers. walk into any undergrad biology class and it's at least 50% women if not more.

>>60100306
Yeah it's clearly just set dressing but given that they are supposed to have some software developers posing here they sure manage to make those post-its reveal whoever wrote them doesn't know enough to write a couple post-its.
If you were to detail your work somehow in a couple dozen post-its I'm sure you could at least not repeat yourself.

>>60100357

Why even bother with postit?
I just use notepad to keep track of shit

>>60100331
>there are a ton of women in STEM...they just become medical/health workers instead of scientists/engineers. walk into any undergrad biology class and it's at least 50% women if not more.
This. If OP actually studied something instead of being a toilet cleaner he would know that

>>60099256
I kind of wish we did not do this in the US. We try to involve females so they can be equal to men or feel they can do more, but yet it only provides feminists a place to exist. It should be about the talent not about a person's skin or gender.

>>60100380
It's set dressing. They needed to not just have her in front of an empty wall. The color of the post-its is useful for an appealing image.
Nothing wrong with that. But they are so lacking in content..

I think if you need to go to college to learn a highly accessible subject you're a fucking faggot. AND on top of that if you need some horseshit affirmation that you're a strong woman going to college to learn tech your a huge fucking faggot.

Going to college is fine though, but shouldn't be the only source of knowledge you gather in a field you should actually at least pretend to be interested in

>why?
Because there is actually not much of a need for programmers.
There is a need for cheap programmers, who in turn suppress the wages.
If the person/programmer with the actual technical knowledge would earn enough to fund his own company and invest in himself, rather than working for some big corp (which is basically nothing but a bunch of stock) companies would directly feed their later competitors.
By creating thousands of 'apparent' competitors for a job, one can pay less to their programmers/engineers, which stifles their ability to create competition.
Sure, you may have to hire more programmers now, and maybe even pay more for all of them together, but the risk of them creating competition is now much lessened.
The top programmers of your team will be a thousand times more productive than the rest either way.

>>60099922
Actually you're wrong. She tries to look cute at least once even if she's not coding.

>>60099256
>why is it even allowed?
Because the world is full of stupid people. Why do you think gifted (high IQ) individuals have higher suicide rates?

They can't stand dealing with the stupidity day after grinding day.

I'm in a CS PhD program, and there are only 2 White, American female students while there are 25+ female international students from countries like Iran, India, and China where women have less rights and freedoms in comparison. Really makes you think.

>>60099464
Hello Janis

Women aren't wired to solve problems. They are wired to nurture in any capacity. This isn't smart at all. How is something so obviously incorrect approved?

>>60099818
t. someone who's never had to work with women in a corporate environment

>>60099256
>do while loop
>ever

>>60100314
>>60100124
TL;DR
Seem like someone that is a jobless NEET or in HS. I'm not saying University is always going to be the best way to learn something out of everything but it's stupid to assume that you won't learn anything significant or useful. I would agree that generally your general courses are mostly useless but major courses are all relevant.

>>60099922
It's a do while loop that defines a "look" object reference with identifier "cute" every time she satisfies the looping condition "coding".

Her shirt's snippet is pointless garbage just like this movement.

>>60100821
You're really stupid if you think women are nurturing to anyone but their own children

>>60100765
Watch the documentary "Brainwash". It's on the Norwegian gender paradox and less Norwegian women go into tech than shitholes like Afghanistan.

>>60099256
Also they don't want Women in STEM

They want Karlie fucking Koss in STEM. Gamer Gurlzzz. I know plenty of women in STEM. They're fat, nerdy, unattractive, most are brown skinned or asian. They aren't poster children.

Yet they exist. And you know what? NO ONE CARES. No one gives a fuck that they're women, only a fuck that they're competent.

No one gave a shit about their gender until the fucking SJWs started giving them special snowflake status.

They aren't Karlie fucking Kloss. Or the mulatto lol so quirky negro in the picture.

>>60100182
>import sublime
Whaaaaat?

>>60100134
>I don't want to be an object I'm smart and do code
Shows in underwear

ITT: computer science students reveal ignorance of all social sciences, but devalue them anyway, so don't really want to know the answers social science offers.
>/g/ never fucking changes

>>60100983
>social sciences
Hot Ice

>>60100288
Woman see high paying jobs using computers
>Why can't I stand all day on computerZ and gain money
Pass afirmative action. Mandatory land whale contract
Stay all day on Facebook
>I'm coding now
>You go girl
Suddenly Joe the developer need to double turns because shalleza the contact relationship engineer dont do the same as the developer they fired

>>60101021
Imagine spending all that money on college only to remain so ignorant.

>I can program a computer but I have no concept of the real world or how it works
it's like a celebration of autism, good luck with that

>>60100845
>Jobless programmer
No. Employed software development. I did go to college for a masters.
>stupid to assume you won't learn
You seem to have missed the point entirely.
The tldr is that you don't know when you learn something productive or counterproductive. Given that these negate eachother the actual useful stuff you learn is learned very inefficiently.
If university study was a net negative I would have said so. You just presumed it.
It's certainly not worth your time. Not at the price you pay for tuition.
>>60100983
Where was social science mentioned?

>>60101118
>Where was social science mentioned?
its bait. don't respond.

>>60100213
kek

>>60099256
That woman is a fucking clueless moron

>>60100819
*Ivans :^)

>>60099464
I'm glad people are finally making fun of how fucking dumb this is

Why the fuck doesn't she have pants on?

i'm thinking about retiring to poland since it's cheap as shit, would you recommend it

Why aren't they wearing pants?

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>>60099256
>error: unknown type name ‘look’
>warning: unused variable ‘cute’

>>60099308
All that shows is that they're only interested in the end result: money, which is exactly what you'd expect of a woman.

>>60100288
>My god, this is that child-like shit when girls just want to do what boys are doing and ruin it for them shit. Women never grow up.
This is exactly what it is.

>>60099256
I'm a man without secondary education
I'm also white and straight
I have a web development job at a pretty big company

If you don't it's your problem, not the womyn's

>>60105009
they are using these "womyn" to create artificial labor market competition and drive your own wages down. Enjoy your ((((((((((competitive salary)))))))))))))).

>>60105055
You should worry less about "them", you'll enjoy life more if you stop pretending the world has it out for you

Women make up like 10-15% of all programmers. Who gives a fuck

Feminists tried forcing equality of opportunity but that didnt work because stronk womynz still lag behind white males so now theyre forcing eqauality of outcome all over the place

>>60099256
>whats the point of pushing women into technology when they are uninterested in it?
Useful idiots to push down wages for employers.

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>>60105093
>don't worry about us goy
>just use nepotism to get your foot in the door!

>>60105131
Employers wont still hire them if they cant even fizzbuzz

>>60105140
>le Jew boogeyman

I'm a white Christian cisgendered male and had no problem getting a job. What's wrong with you?

>>60105178
Whatever you say, mister goldberg.

>>60101076

>contact relationship engineer

S-stop it. It may be a real title now that you've just said it.

>>60100124
>contacts
>They're very useless actually.
kys nigger

>>60099256
Who cares, if you cant out compete women in stem then you suck

>>60106827
Jokes on them; I'm a (fantastic!) midwife.

>>60106827
Actually this. Companies may need to fill diversity quotas, but that does not mean they will suddenly stop hiring actually qualified people, and when someone is qualified and will fill the diversity quota it's win-win.

>>60106959
>get fired because you're the only competent dev and you have to babysit 5 new diversity hires who don't do anything and are literally unfireable because they're women or PoCs

>>60106982
The real world does not work like that because places like those just go broke and die down.

>>60099256
Baiting horny nerds into think there will be females in there beta cuck programing courses.
Its a ruse.

>>60106992
Once companies reach a certain size, they can basically hire as much dead weight as they want and their massive size makes them immune to bad decisions because they can just lay off the entire branch if someone higher up notices that it's not worth the expense to keep them open.

>>60106959
My friend works as a manager at a casino. He had to whittle down a shortlist of potential employees. He hired one white guy with bags of experience and charm but had to let go two other fantastic guys with years of experience, close to perfect candidates - all because they were white and were not within the quota guidelines. The one's he ended up hiring had little to no experience in anything and needed a lot of training. Needless to say, they aren't there anymore. It's bullshit.

>>60107017
can confirm, working at a company like this right now

>>60107017
Ive have always worked at small companies because of how stupid and inefficient big companies are

>>60099818
This is so stupid it must be 8/8 bait.
Gratz you made me reply faggot

>>60100134
Jesus this is indistinguishable from satire

>>60099967
>he's still hung up about sexual repression

Someone convince me to take a college class on coding

Or Codecademy or something

Christ this thread is sexist.

Diversity is important. When you have a distribution of people that are not representative of the general populace making decisions that affect the entire populace, you risk society moving in a direction that not everyone agrees with-- this has been happening forever and still happens.

STEM fields are very powerful, as are tech companies, as are marketing companies, as are politics. We need people that don't just have the population's best interest in mind, but to reduce implicit bias, are literally similar to the population, making decisions.

It is logical to push for the distribution of people in positions of power to be similar to the distribution of people in the populace.

>>60107796
Name ONE (1) situation where a woman's opinion would be considerably MORE valuable than a man's when it comes to software architecture.

>inb4 emotional intelligence

>>60107823
No. I'm not saying women are more valuable than men. I'm saying that a group of the two is better than a group of any one of them. I'm not buying into sexist stereotypes about what men or women do better than the other, I'm just saying for the sake of moving in the direction that best suits everybody, the groups of people making impactful decisions should generally be representative of "everybody".

(Unless they're literally incapable of doing the job, I'm not suggesting Google hire people with only highschool diplomas)

>>60107796
fuck off sjw faggot nature is sexist and it made women inferior to men. women evolve to be inferior because they had fewer sexual selection pressures then men.

>>60107859
Right on!
If a company isn't 51% women and 4% transgender, it doesn't represent the people, it's a boy's club.

>>60107876
It doesn't need to completely mirror the population, but it should at least try to be vaguely similar to it. Having groups of people of a single, or just a couple demographics, making decisions that affect all demographics is genuinely kind of a problem.

>>60107864
The basis of my argument is that women aren't simply inferior to men. If you do believe that, you can just disregard me because I'm not going to try to convince you of otherwise..............................

>>60107796
>When you have a distribution of people that are not representative of the general populace

not my fault women are retarded and can't legitimately enter the industry

>>60107911
Yeah I mean, it's nobody's fault per se (except maybe people who are truly shitty like Travis Kalanick). That doesn't mean we shouldn't push for a societal change that encourages women (and all demographics really) to study for and eventually enter positions of power.

>>60107859
>I'm not suggesting Google hire people with only highschool diplomas
>push for the distributions of people in positions of power to be similar to the distribution of people in the populace

Why don't you want a distribution of people in power to be the equivalent to the distribution of education levels of everybody in the world? You want diversity, don't you? You want there to be a distribution that represents the general populace, right?

>>60107796
It's cute how this reasoning is never applied to human resources, then again if it were then this reasoning wouldn't be applied at all. Only a minority of women are feminists and a sheer minority of men. If 50% of HR were men, rather than the current 10%, there would be too many protests about how inegalitarian ideas simply cannot have egalitarian outcomes. The ends cannot justify the means.

But you're either a troll or delusional feminist, so it doesn't matter what I post.

>>60107796
>Christ this thread is sexist.
>Diversity is important. When you have a distribution of people that are not representative of the general populace making decisions that affect the entire populace, you risk society moving in a direction that not everyone agrees with-- this has been happening forever and still happens.
Employing people based on gender, instead of based on skill set and expeience, is the definition of sexist. It's not doing the (few, sadly, at least in the "first world") qualified women in STEM any favor - "she must be in that position becase she has tits".

>>60107921
Look at the pictures in this thread. I don't know what pictures of niggers and whales """coding""" barefoot in their underwear is supposed to encourage, but it sure as hell isn't a genuine interesting in software engineering.

>>60107936
If they're literally incapable of doing the job then yeah I wouldn't suggest they be hired... And if that is an issue, that to me implies that more people should be enabled to enter higher education. I mean I literally just said I don't want that, what is your argument exactly?

>>60107942
Hey come on, if you try to actually talk to me or other people saying similar things, I'm sure they'd be willing to respond. It certainly does matter what you post.
I don't have a lot of experience in HR, and I'm certainly not suggesting that the ends justify the means. What advantage do you feel is being gained by women by them representing 90% of HR employees?

>>60099384
That's a gender insensitive thing to say. You have no idea what women go through and as a non-women you have no right to say what happens with women.

>>60107960
I'd argue with what the definition of sexist is here... another time. Suffice to say, discriminating based on sex is clearly not the way to go, nor is it what I think people should do. Certainly nobody is making decisions "because she has tits" (an invented scenario that I honestly find kind of insulting, but whatever). I literally never claimed that an unqualified person should fill be required to fill a job. I'm just saying that out of the qualified candidates, we should pick the ones that allow us to best represent the populace, and if the distribution of those candidates is not representative of the populace, we might have a social issue on our hands.

Why do guys feel so threatened by us... >.<

>>60107967
Using the n-word...? Forget it. I don't know why I even tried to explain things to you guys.

>>60100134
I can only imagine the stress that poor chair is suffering.

>>60108047
This isn't me (the one writing long-ish responses) btw.

But hey I mean, trolls will be trolls right?

Suffice to say, I know I'm on 4chan, I'm not phased by the word nigger. I'm just trying to use logical statements to change people's minds for the better.

>>60108030
Honestly, because it's going to drive wages down in the field, and there already enough pajeets doing that.

>>60108030
because women are shit, gtfo

>>60108002
>What advantage do you feel is being gained by women by them representing 90% of HR employees?
You can apply gender and diversity quotas without someone piping up and pointing out how down right hypocritical and outright insulting to the people they're meant to help these things are.

So HR is 90% women and even then, I doubt Lauren Southern would be accepted as a HR woman.

And I am talking to you; I'm making you recognise that any selection besides a purely meritocratic selection is dishonesty and counter productive. It's your choice to listen and cease justifying sexism for the sake of countering sexism, that's literally a self justification and therefore circular reasoning.

>>60108030
I'm threatened by the fact women are three times more likely to get jobs. This means their qualifications can be as low as a third of a man's and still have an equivalent chance at getting a job.

This isn't justifiable, this is literally oppression, especially if markings are adjusted for diversity as well. Maybe I might let you have one? But you can't have both, you can't have diverse hiring and diverse marking because this makes it literally impossible for white men to get jobs.

Unless that was the point all along?

This is my point of view. This is oppression and the longer it goes on, the more likely white men are to take back the civilisation they built and revoke their trust in others to understand and enforce true equality.

>>60108126
>I'm threatened by the fact women are three times more likely to get jobs.
Source: my ass

>>60107936
You know that's not a valid comparison. Obviously high schoolers aren't capable of working in technical fields. There is nothing inherently worse about an adult woman when compared to a man. In fact, there are many studies that suggest that women may be better than men in many mentally-focused tasks.

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I used to think that all women are inherently inferior to men when it comes to logic and math, but shit, there is a girl on my college studying CS who is now better in analysis and programming than me, and I'm basically top of the class this year.

>inb4 orbiters

Nah, she isn't hot at all, actually she's very goofy and nerdy (NOT in a fetish way) so she is mostly alone or hanging out with other girls, who are all mostly failing.

Now I think that MOST women are inherently inferior to men when it comes to math and logic.

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>>60105178
>cisgendered
>any straight man would use this term to define themselves
Greeson bissett

>>60108126
That's a strong opinion and I agree with most of those words.

A "purely meritocratic" selection is the best, but I think we disagree on what this means. I think that someone who is able to provide views and opinions to the team that help them understand their customers on a deeper level is a merit. By that merit, adding a woman to a team of all men is probably more productive than adding a man to a team of all men. That being said, I never want to imply that someone who is unqualified should be hired, this is purely a scenario between two fully qualified candidates.

If you expand the perspective of a team, that is a merit. Yes, sometimes that merit is heavily based on your demographic.

>>60108126
Lauren Southern is a man now.

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I could literally get an interview for every resume I send in if I changed my first name to the girl equivalent.

I tried it a few times, got 3 phone calls asking to do a phone screen for the girl on the resume.
I bullshitted on one of them and told them I was transgender (because i clearly sound like a guy over the phone) and I didn't pass the phone screen but they actually gave me the time of day.

I get maybe 1 reply out of every 50 resumes I send when I'm being honest.

>>60108199
Did you really do it? You really sent in a resume to a job with a girl's name on it simply to prove a point? Can you show us those emails?

>>60108199
I understand your frustration but your anecdotal evidence is no substitute for facts.

>>60108199
This is fake because they can't ask about gender let alone if you're trans

>>60108217
This isn't me, by the way.

>>60108230
..What?

>>60108185
>adding a fully qualified vagina to the team is better than adding a fully qualified penis to the team
Uhmmm... Sexist much!? :^/

>>60108238
No. That is not my claim.

Adding someone to the team who has a fresh perspective is more valuable than someone who does not. If one qualified candidate does, and the other does not, I'd hire the former.

This does not need to be about sex, or race, this is about expanding perspective in positions of power to be similar to those of the general populace.

>>60108230
>>60108063

>no hesitation to turn on like-minded people to save their own face

as expected of a woman

>>60108254
I'm a dude bruh

>>60108024
This is an ad hominem stemming from victim mentality. You are dismissing their point of view purely based on assuming they're male, and then expecting them to just shut up and accept some sort of victim narrative.

This fails because we've all seen markers go easy on women, cucks sharing their work with women and feminist HR give jobs easier to women. There is no victimisation here.

>>60108138
Please check engineering statistics in your own country, in mine it's documented that female STEM employment demand is triple that of men.

If you can't refute the ideas and point, don't nitpick against my data. Everyone knows women are preferred.

>>60108251
>fresh perspective
Which is literally whatever the fuck you define "fresh" as and can literally be anything allow you to justify hiring however you want justifying subjecting anyone to whatever bias you have.

We know these tricks. You just cycle through words that you've defined yourself.

>>60107859
>the groups of people making impactful decisions should generally be representative of "everybody".

It isn't politics its a fucking job. Most programmers are getting told what to do anyway.

>>60108254
I just want to make the distinction because I don't want my points to carry that kind of connotation. It's obvious that the other person is just pretending to agree with me to feed convenient questions to the other side.

>>60108269
You're right, we do absolutely need more diversity in politics.

>see OP image
>wonder why the woman is in that particular garb considering
>say one thing, do something else
>I mean really
>"it's not ok for people to objectify me..."
>"but it's perfectly acceptable for me to do it myself..."
>get the fuck out

>>60108266
fresh = different

meaning, the literal definition of different, regarding the current composition of the team. This isn't some kind of liberal spin, I literally just mean it's healthy to form teams with different perspectives, and it reduces bias when those teams are distributed in generally the same way as the general populace

>>60108025
>I'm just saying that out of the qualified candidates, we should pick the ones that allow us to best represent the populace
No name, no photo, no voice for first round. Just give the potential employee a problem and a timeline.
For qualified jobs, that's probably all you need, because there's usually a shortage of skilled workers anyway.
If more than the required amount of applications qualify for the job, pick at random. Anything else is unfair.

>and if the distribution of those candidates is not representative of the populace, we might have a social issue on our hands.
It isn't. We do. The important questions are: Is that even a problem? And: If it is, how do we fix it?

>Certainly nobody is making decisions "because she has tits"
That happens every day, i.e. in schools (this is part of the problem) and hospitals. Nobody talks about it, because it's not trendy or high-paid, but that doesn't mean that gender-based inequality of decision-making doesn't happen on both ends.

>>60108199
Friendly reminder that you're not legally obligated to write your real name on your resume.

Use this to your advantage by making your name sound more white or more sexually ambiguous.

>>60108030
I don't feel threatened. I just hate diversity for diversity's sake.

>>60108299
>and it reduces bias when those teams are distributed in generally the same way as the general populace
do some work to define this. bias with respect to what underlying reality? don't say "with respect to the general populace," because that's circular (i.e., distributing teams like the general populace reduces bias as defined as difference from the general populace)

i don't disagree with you but you're not talking in a concrete way

>>60108299
no, the representation of """"""the general populace""""""" should not influence the implementation of software. Design, maybe. Marketing, maybe. but not fucking implementation. Keep that "it's always good to be open minded!!" shit out of here. some ideas are only good for wasting the team's time. Guess where those come from.

>>60108297
Why? It's her body, she should be able to do whatever she wants with it.

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>We need wonen in STEM to represent women
>No, not in a sexist way!

What isn't kind of sexist and identitarian about thinking that a woman in STEM functions as a lionized soapbox representative, why would women need other women to make their decisions for them? This still implies that having a vagina has such strong inherent traits that only women can bring to the table, which is simply not the case.

Men and women have biological differences mostly in fields that are not used in STEM, plus I would argue that the most sexist thing you can do is prevent qualified men who worked hard to work in that field to miss out on a job for a woman with a STEM degree.
Lastly women pretty much oversaturate fields like nursery, will we be pushing for more diversity for men there?
What about fields oveaturated by black people, will we push some white people in there too?

What's diversity to begin with, who determines what kind of diversity we need. If we add black people to a market to better represent it, what kind of black person, Uganda or the darker parts of India? Just African people? So also African whites?

The point I'm trying to make is that this diversity is often politicially charged oe to further one group that the people with the power to diversify identify with and want to gain a better position, this reduces the whole debate to pushing one group over the other and keep the other one in his place by telling them they're supposed to be where they are at now. People make themselves inequal to have a better standing, to try and prevent this will never succeed, as you can't keep out with its process, you'll be playing whack-a-mole with various groups forever, constantly damaging this process for no reason but your own identity politics.

>>60108299
Right wing voices are almost universally ignored by people with sociology degrees, that is the majority of HR. You are so full of shit. At the moment, a white man's voice is the freshest voice in the room because he's unafraid to be offensive.

>>60105093
This.

>>60108353
the actual kinds of issues that occur are hypothesis issues, i.e. "what questions should we test?" the kinds of errors this results in are e.g., visual recognition products that can't see black people, because no one thought to test something that should be intuitively obvious. this specific example no longer happens, but i personally observed it during a consulting job circa 2010

hypothesizing is based on intuition and in particular when building human-computer interaction systems there is an economic argument for having intuitions that better match your users. analogously, when building software with social ramifications there is something like an ethical argument for having intuitions that better match the makeup of society

however, it is fairly easy to torpedo the ethical argument by not caring. and even if you accept it, it obviously benefits some people and costs some people, and justifying that tradeoff requires something like a utilitarian rational

it's very, very easy for people to apply a utilitarian rational for hiring one person and not another when they're not any of the people in the process

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>what's the point of pushing women into technology
These fields are great career paths that many women are wary of taking due to preconceived notions that these fields are for guys only. So the push is to break down these dumb stereotypes.

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>>60108432
What kind of dumb stereotypes are these brave womyn breaking here?

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>>60108367
>Be European
>Pay for their anticonception
>Pay for their abortions
>Whatever medical aid she needs, I pay
>Pay for the birth of their babies
>Pay for their kids my whole life
>Pay for whatever finances she uses that enable her to dress and actbin a way that matches her own identity

Now tell me how she has full control and ownership of her body again.

>>60108451
I don't know. Can't tell. Can you explain for me what they're claiming?

>>60108466
Damn, I wish I knew myself, dude, because it sure as hell doesn't look like it's about good code

>>60108432
that's the correct answer, imo. these bizarre utilitarian arguments about the corporate value of diversity are staking a lot on whether or not that is factually true, and more generally whether or not there are economically rational reasons that any job would not be a uniform-random sample independent of every possible human trait you can name off the top of your head

>>60108484
ultimately there is no shortage of dumbass advertising campaigns, and it's irrational to to try to diagnose society from them

>>60108463
It's the responsibility of the citizen to take care of others through taxes, You clearly wouldn't have problems paying for a male's heart surgery. She just happens to have slightly different needs. Who are you to judge?

>>60108506
That means she doesn't have control over her own body which means I do have a say that I can alter by voting and increase or decrease by changing my own standing.

>>60108463
>implying she doesn't pay taxes
>implying the government owns anyone because they pay taxes
respectfully, that is some mad cuckage

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>>60099256
I'd show her my whiteboard and make her fizz buzz if you know what I mean.

>>60108504
No, I would be hard pressed to find an equally retarded advertising campaign aimed at men aspiring to enter the technical fields.

>>60108526
do you understand what rights are? not "human rights," just plain old rights, which presumably exist in your country's laws and philosophy?

i'm not sure what rights you think you have here but i doubt they extend to her in any legally significant or functionally potent manner

>>60108526
You don't have a right to tell her what her body needs or doesn't need. You don't even know what it's like.

>>60108528
No my argument is that if you're a strong independent womyn all about that vagina power, you're a massive cuck for letting men pay for your expenses and fundamentally draw from the male wealth pool of all men globally to pay and have a say about your body.

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>>60108542
google image search contains untold horrors

>>60108541
>Works exactly as described
>runs in O(1)

Formally optimal code.

>>60108547
>>60108551
So you are denying that through this path, I have a say and that I can change that say as I like?

>>60108565
>office environment
>writing what looks to be actual code
>((((((((((((((((((((is wearing clothes)))))))))))))))))))

naw

>>60108575
Yes, there are limits to what you can do to affect other human beings. If you had enough power, should you be able to genocide the entire black race? That's exactly what you're insinuating.

>>60108575
not with respect to any arbitrary issue, no. that is legally straightforward. i assume your country has a constitution, and legal obligations to other countries, etc.

there's also the question of whether you have an ethical right, which you are clearly trying to avoid by insisting you have some "de facto" natural power because of money and voting or whatever. the first attack i'd mount on that assertion is that those powers are fucking pitiful

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>>60108590
for the record i didn't name this "datascientist.jpg", that's literally from the website

>>60108551
So let her pay for her own fucking expenses.

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>>60108199
>be me
>call place I want to work at
>sound very black on phone
>get called in for an interview the next day
>show up
>talk normal
>overhear HR ladies in the break room
>"yeah the black guy didn't show up..."

>>60108572
>runs in O(1)
not really, thread wakeup usually has a certain level of randomness

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>>60100182
>>60100134
>>60099256
Honestly this would be pretty hot if not for the landwhale.

>>60099256
>why is it even allowed?
while they statistically won't be productive, that's not expected of them either. If they are, great. Otherwise they'll be happy to have an office job with halfway decent salary, be sociable, never go out asking for prestigious work and generally stay out of your way.
Now try that with a male who's just average or below average in talent for his field. Even a total dud is unlikely to ever drop his competition drive/career ambition and ruin everything for everyone.

>>60108700
You can tell a man to fuck off if he's not performing. Doing the same for a woman will get you fired & your social life destroyed. Never underestimate a woman's drive for vengence over petty shit.

>>60108451
>this is a bullshit free zone
>spews out bullshit

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>>60100156
>>60100134

>>60108689
that doesn't really add to the growth of the function.

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>>60099256
>has actual accomplishments that the 20ish neets that frequent the chans should aspire to, not ridicule
>has teets
>REEEEEEEEEE

>>60108622
>Ethernet cable hanging from drive caddy

>>60108918
>((((((((((((((((((((((((((((change agent)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

>>60108940
>((((((((((Aspiring for a better world for ones children is a suspicious activity as viewed from my moms basement)))))))))

>>60099256
Interest is a spectrum

>>60108918

Do upper management and shareholders seriously see shit like this (obviously no real technical skill and spends all day writing articles and "advocating"), and think it's a good idea to hire this person to manage critical systems?

>>60099256
I have zero problem working with women in stem. Some of the best coders I've ever met are women. But they should want to code.

>>60108699
yeah I wish my cs classes had that talent. All I get are the landwhales.

>>60108967
It really. It's the same kind of logic that resulted in the prohibition and the rise of large-scale gangs and the welfare state. Not to mention neutering school lunches, banning dodgeball, getting rid of recess, stranger stranger (which has been tested to be counterproductive as kids are too discern from "good" strangers and bad ones), and so forth. A shit ton of stuff meant to improve children's futures has had the opposite effect.

>>60108983
If you had actual workplace experience you'd know by now that "actual technical skill" is way down on the list when recruiting for managing anything. Even before penile questions factor into it.

>>60109005
The welfare state is literally what allows you to waste your life being an obnoxious little prick on the internet while surrounded by abundance. You might find to time to be a little bit grateful to your mom for caring for the future of her children, in between your time spent being angry at everything. :^)

>>60100182
>import os
>import os.path

why??

>>60109057
I did more in my life than these vapid bitches ever could hope for.

>>60100493
This.

>>60109013
This. In reality there's no requirements to being a manager except time. This is why they upgrade codemonkeys to managers after a few years even though they have absolutely no management skills.

>>60109226
>t. A Lifetime of Magical Adventures in Shitposting

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>>60100134
>this is a bullshit free zone

>>60109278
My memes elected the President of the United States of America. Beat that, fuccboi.

>>60100213
good one

>wanting to be something that will be replaced so easily with AI

programmers are a dying breed

>>60107285
Poe's law is nowhere as valid as on the internet...

>>60099256
Znam to. Baby chuja umieją, ale się pchają do roboty. Nie po to żeby pracować, a podkreślać że jest kobietą i też programuje, wszyscy wokoło muszą wiedzieć że ona jest kobietą i też potrafi. Chuj tam z kodem, ona jest kobietą. Rzygać się chce.

>>not even some leftist country but shithole Poland

Poland is leftist country at its finest man

>>60109333
There would have to be a technological breakthrough of epic proportions for AI to actually replace a programmer. I don't see current technology ever being able to power a such advanced AI.

The transportation sector though. It will be fully automated within 100 years. Hope you don't plan to get a job there. Trucks will probably be fully autonomous in 30 years.

>>60109288
>memed an incompetent, mentally unstable reality tv star into supreme leader of your own country

congrats, I guess?

>>60099256
There's literally no point and it needs to stop.
Most women don't have that innate persistence (nor logic) to solve problems like most men do. Problem solving is one of - if not - THE core foundation in STEM.

>>60099384
>This is why Norway is so gender neutral but yet no parity in the fields.
Just so everyone knows. This isn't /pol/ shit. Google "Norwegian gender paradox" is you want some info.

>>60099256
Because the Jews and leftists infiltrate universities first. It never used to be like this back in the 60s, there was a lot more political diversity on colleges.

How do they know that women aren't just less interested in tech than men?

Like no one ever questions and why there are less men in professions like nursing.

>>60109731
Or why there are less women in coal mining or plumbing.

EQUALITY! But only when it's cool, hip, and not icky or dangerous.

>>60100288
>>60099745
>>60099872
>>60099916

It's a marketing campaign by a company called Thinx, which makes absorbent knickers for women and is using feminism to peddle their wares to 'empowered' millennial women.

But I guess it's easier to circlejerk about how everything in the world is dumb womyn's fault on an Eritrean amateur navel gazing forum than use Google. Fuck sake, mouthbreathers the lot of ye.

>>60107796
Fuck, I can't find a good hole in this argument.

>When you have a distribution of people that are not representative of the general populace making decisions that affect the entire populace, you risk society moving in a direction that not everyone agrees with
This is true, although it many ways that risk is unavoidable.

>STEM fields are very powerful, as are tech companies, as are marketing companies, as are politics.
This is also true.

>We need people that don't just have the population's best interest in mind, but to reduce implicit bias, are literally similar to the population, making decisions.
This is the only weakness I see in the text itself, it assumed that implicit bias is significant. The only other weakness I can see is that it assumes that pushing for diversity will do less harm than risking that society moves in a direction that not everyone agrees with.

What have I missed, /g/?

>>60109862
Because then men would cry about women endangering themselves and others by being weak and helpless. See: butthurt virgins sperging out about women soldiers, women firefighters, etc.
Nothing is ever good enough for you people.

>>60109862
Actually it's because coal miners and plumbers don't have a lot of power over the general populace. It's not particularly consequential who happens to be a coal miner or a plumber....

>>60107796
>It is logical to push for the distribution of people in positions of power to be similar to the distribution of people in the populace.
The ends don't justify the means. Diversity is all well and good, discrimination based on gender isn't.

>>60100134
>>60100156
srsly guize
that has to be the IRL rendition of peter griffin
god was like "seth mcfarlen i like your show so goddanm much, i'm going to make a real peter griffin"
and thus, we must suffer this repulsive retard all over the internets
bretty lulzy i must say

>>60108590
>writing what looks to he actual code
That's sexist because you'd never say that about a woman

>>60110245
I only mean when all candidates are qualified. At this point, we're only discussion discriminating based on experience, albeit social experience and how that influences a person's point of view. Yes, people with unique points of view are more employable.

>>60110377
Actually nobody is laughing at that stupid shit except you.

>>60109935
>But I guess it's easier to circlejerk about how everything in the world is dumb womyn's fault

Oh sweet summer child

It's literally stormfags who get marching orders and mantra points

>>60110417
actually that looks exactly like peter griffin.
which is both repulsive and hilarious. 10 out of 10, god knows how to humor better than anyone.

>>60110441
Honestly the worst shit about this isn't that some shitlord on /b/ is asserting that some extremely unfunny joke is actually funny, it's that I have to defend this fat piece of shit.

You both suck

>>60099256
tell me which uni it is so i can avoid it

They may (and mostly do) get helped by either betas or professor, sometimes even BigCOs. However, things on STEM only gets harder and harder so the only women left are the really competent ones.

>>60110453
>/b
fuckoff back to your containment board faggot.
some repulsive, fat, peter griffin look alike, dyke being spammed online and in the media is the epitome of humor.
fuck you and your worthless miserable life back to the wrecked threads you belong in if you can't find humor when it's right infront of you

>>60106959
>Companies may need to fill diversity quotas, but that does not mean they will suddenly stop hiring actually qualified people

What it means is that the actually qualified people will have double or triple the workload, because not only do they have to do their own jobs, but also those of token minorities.

idk why /g/ gets so butthurt about women in tech

what about the woman who wrote Cracking The Coding Interview

i think she probably knows more than 99% of the people here, just saying

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>>60105093

>>60110554
don't forget that they get paid just as much as you
only that you're doing way more work way more efficienty
i'm just salty there's nothing to protect white people and their jobs when they're clearly the minority pretty much everywhere now.

>>60107796
>Diversity is important.

Why? If I run a business, the only thing that REALLY matters is my bottom line. Business is a competitive environment and if torpedo my employees' effectiveness by wasting their time and my money on diversity hires, my company will simply fail because the competition is doing any of that stupid shit.

>>60110564
Yeah, but that doesn't fit the dumb sexist narrative of "le wymnz taking our jobs xd" that /pol/ likes to push, so it's ignored.

>>60110674
They currently are, but it won't last. It's a pendulum swing, it's being pushed way harder than it should and so lots of garbage coders get employed under 'getting women to code' schemes.

It's going to get worse during the backlash though. Because of this, the pendulum will swing back and the industry will consider being female as a sign that you're a shitty programmer. Because surprise surprise, women aren't better or worse than men so if you preferentially employ them you're getting a lot more shitty programmers.

>>60110616
I run a 'too big to fail' business. I can do whatever the fuck I want because the taxpayer will bail the company out if the dumb identity politics bullshit backfires.

>>60110711
>I run a 'too big to fail' business
Is this the LARPing thread where we pretend to be CEOs of GM/Goldman Sachs?

>>60099922
Actually, it's supposed to be like this:

while(coding)
{
LookCute();
}

>>60100493
Yeah, this.

>>60100134
>this is a bullshit free zone
Oh, the irony

>>60110616
>business is a competitive environment
Exactly, which is why you need diversity in the workplace as it helps to prevent circlejerking and groupthink, which results in overlooking certain issues with a piece of software, product or marketing campaign, which is exactly the shite that gives your competitor the upper hand since those seemingly small errors usually have hilariously disastrous results with serious consequences.
If a Korean company wants to market their laundry detergent, 3K White Power, overseas, their marketing team consists of only Koreans and the odd chink and there aren't any Americans, Brits or Germans to point out the issues with the product's name, it would end in a disaster.
My god you really are thick.

>>60110711
If you really, then you can hire all the PoC stronk independent womyn, so the rest of us don't have to deal with their bullshit.

>>60110806
But that might be a case of diversity being necessary in advertisement, marketing and management, not necessarily the design and engineering of the product.

I don't disagree with you in principle -- I'm not a raging /pol/-/r9k/ misogynist -- but you need to make the case that diversity is desirable in engineering and mathematical fields.

>>60099256
has anyone read the post its behind her? It is hilarious

>usb/external drive
>remote code execution
>"what are we reaching youth?"

>>60105131
They would have to pay the useful idiots' salary in order to pay the actually good programmer's less. How does that make sense?

>>60100888
this senpai, I know a few females who are great programmers and none of them give a shit about 'muh women in STEM'.

>>60099256
I don't understand. Did that chick invent briefs for chicks?

>>60110891
that looks like a fairly standard agile storyboard and makes sense in the context of her business

>>60110718
Shut up! It's necessary for reasons of Socratic dialogue, or what you neckbeards call falseflagging.

>>60107859
>>60107876
I'm sorry but I have to disagree with you on that. In the past all male teams have performed great and there is a good energy in the team. Second a woman comes in it becomes a dick measuring contest and the bitch forces all of the attention on her.

>>60099518
Fucking legendary

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>>60100182

>>60110937
>muh anecdote
I've worked on mixed teams with women where women were the most productive members of the group, what's your point?

>>60110922
yeah but normally you write towards a much more specific problem. It is completely scatterbrained and filled with buzzwords.

>>60110954
I never said anything about them not being productive. The problem is that other team members become less productive because of her.

Don't get me wrong, 1 on 1 it is fine to work with female developers, great synergy. Woman in a team, not so much.

>>60110711
You're on 4chan, stop pretending you're a someone and not a nobody.

>>60111003
If two white knight phaggot men can't work together because they're trying to dick measure to impress the woman, I'm not going to blame the woman (who probably just wants to do her job rather than endure the shenanigans of horny dudes) for that.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a feminist but I'm not going to overlook solid developers because they're women.

>state says: "get more womyns working and we gibe tax break"
>companies say: "okay feminogs u r oppressed come get job lol"
>the eternal struggle to make women and other undesirables useful to tech companies begin
that's the short version

>>60110845
>not necessarily the design and engineering of the product
Unless you're designing a product for the general populace, where half of the user base is women, or worse yet a product marketed to women. Even if it's a B2B piece of software they can be a breath of fresh air.

At any rate, even though schemes like this are annoying, they can be good if they actually attempt to expand the talent pool (though not all do and many do it for social justice brownie points only, see OP pic).

There's also the issue of 'fitting in' and muh company culture, but people who cite that as a reason for an employee not getting the job still hire Autistic Andrew anyway and Pooja from Bangalore, who works her arse off to support her family and would've made a grand addition to the company, remains unemployed and hungry.
Not saying there aren't and won't be duds, but that's what recruiters are there for, to suss out which one of the candidates is valuable as opposed to smoke and mirrors in a corporate 'grrl power' feminist package.
As for women only being in it for the money, most tards on 4chan go around bragging about their fancy STEM degrees that will supposedly make them 1 gorillion starting as soon as they graduate, don't see how this is any different. I work in finance, surely you don't think any of us would love being boring corporate pricks if it weren't for the salary.

>>60099256
>uses "coding" as a var and a condition at the same time
>Synthax error

>>60110769
while(coding = true) {
Look_Cute();
}

>>60111073
>using = for equivalence
i think you're worse than her, lmao

>>60110806
>which is why you need diversity in the workplace as it helps to prevent circlejerking and groupthink

Except this doesn't bring nearly as much value as you'd like everyone to believe outside of isolated special cases like you described. And even with those, it is much more efficient to contract specialized localization companies than to keep a token black/white/asian person on the team just for the sake of their background.

I guess they need to polish their image OP

>>60111106
Eliminating circlejerk is pretty important in businesses, without it you get "smartest guy in the room" type thinking that inevitably leads to catastrophe.

Yeah fucking women tech quota bullshit they should be tied to a pole

>>60111086
>He doesn't want to look_cute() all the time.

OP should make a poll on this

>>60110845
>t. Havent actually worked in software development

I have. There literally isnt a problem with having either women, niggers or faggots in the workplace. Only people from racially segregated backwater villages, and boys mooching off their parents think it is.

>>60110377
top kek

Why are stormfaggots so hellbent on turning every workplace into a sausage fest?

>>60111134
Yeah seriously fuck women, nothing can replace my coworkers' brojobs in the toilets on company time haha am I right lads

Why do sjws and feminists think acting like special snowflakes by posing in your undies is gonna get men in STEM to accept them?

>>60111658
see >>60109935

>>60109935
PEE IN LOO!

>>60109935
>when you piss your own pants to help combat the patriarchy

>>60111361
Why are beta male faggots always standing up for people who will never touch their dick of care about them in the slightest?

>>60099256
Wtf, how can she expect to be taken seriously with that shirt on? Let me tell you, niggers are fucking retarded

>>60099256
Why is she wearing granny panties and what kind of life problems can be solved by only one gender?

>>60107864
>fuck off sjw faggot nature is sexist and it made women inferior to men. women evolve to be inferior because they had fewer sexual selection pressures then men.

This new "SJW" term seems to follow some strange grammatical rules - for example, it can only appear in conjunction with spelling mistakes, erroneous grammar and faulty punctuation.
Fascinating.

File: 58678.png (17KB, 418x359px) Image search: [Google]

17KB, 418x359px

>>60109935

>>60109935

Oh yeah I'm sorry, I had no idea that the excuse could be this very common thing and I totally knew what to google. I didn't instead this this was just some dumb chicks at some app startup.

Neck yourself.

>>60100765
Most probability is white america begin daughter of immigrant Europe or Russian.

>>60108983
Someone doesn't understand branding.

>>60110564
She change to bussiness import pajeets and sell books, simple all women in software develop to change to mananger positions.

Women knows how bad is job.