A new episode of Lennart reimplementing functionality of cla

> 21 days ago

>going out of your way to be retarded, not knowing anything about the topic, but trying to get offended by misinterpreting discussions

Wow, you are really on the far end of the "clueless technology shill who hates things just to appear smart" spectrum. Consider suicide.

>>59933016
Are you quoting your own post?

Spoiler: systemd deletes all your files if you expect sane behaviour.

>>59933846
Enjoy your Fisher Price OS.

Wait why the fuck os systemd implementing coreutils?

>>59933939
But I don't use Ubuntu

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that was quick

>>59933942
Because there are still things out there for them to gobble up.

Though if Systemd >truly< is as modular as they claim, then it should be fairly simple for distribution maintainers to pick and choose exactly which modules they want to run with, if using any part of systemd at all.

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>>59933996
Jesus Christ

>>59934024
H A H A
A
H
A

>>59933996
>https://github.com/systemd/systemd/issues/5644
KEK, SO BUTTHURT

>>59932828
> classic Unix tools
Classic Unix tools would have deleted everything without any second thought. It's really funny how *nix-fags blame Pottering for everything when the traditional Unix approach itself is a broken mess of dirty hacks.

>>59935227
>implying

https://github.com/dspinellis/unix-history-repo/blob/386BSD-Release/usr/src/bin/rm/rm.c

>>59935227
That's not the point.
The point is he glossed over Yet Another Thing that he never understood in the slightest.
systemd in a nutshell: ignorance.

Money doesn't need to exist, the reason it does is it makes things easier to scale up and create modern society.
Doesn't change the fact 4+ billion people live every day without money in perfectly fine lives and will outlive well over 60% of first worlders.
Sure they don't have 5 iPads or 20 TVs. I see that as a plus personally.
But hey, "those damn shitty third worlders, they've not even seen Frasier! scum!"
The funny (read:sad) thing is most people in the first world are objectively poorer off when it comes to access to resources kek
Shhh, don't tell people, but high GDP == actual poverty.

Lennart chooses to ignore things because he has an agenda.

>>59935227

>>59935340

        if (ISDOT(p)) {
            if (!complained++)
                (void)fprintf(stderr,
                "rm: \".\" and \"..\" may not be removed.\n");
            retval = 1;
            for (save = t; t[0] = t[1]; ++t);
            t = save;
        } else
++t;

Fucking Pottering will be death to us all.

>>59935340
Oh well, then he's wrong indeed.

Reminder kids, we use unit files because they're safer than shell scripts. Btw. has anyone seen my root?

In no way should the .. be treated as variant of .* because it is he special character sequence, one never gets .. when he lists a directory.

>>59935097
>>59933996

>i have no programming knowledge, all I can do is get angry on bug trackers to display my "knowledge" which consists of myths and memes i parrot

Kill yourself. Spare the whole software world the precious bytes you waste.

>>59936562
Calm down, Lennart.
Do something productive like picking up a book on software engineering instead of shitposting here.

>>59936562
>t. poettering
get fucked, cuck

>>59932828
Windows doesn't have this problem.

>>59936704
It has plenty of other problems

>>59932828
If you cropped the text off the top of this image, this would be high quality bait.

Actually MS Word cannot edit text files. If you write "Hello World" on a file open in MS Word and save, the resulting file will not be a text file containing "Hello World", it will either be some XML or binary.

>>59935227
Nice try Lennart, but POSIX strictly requires rm not to delete . and .. as a safety measure.

http://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/9699919799/utilities/rm.html#tag_20_111_16

>>59936950
text file doesn't have to mean plain text

Friendly reminder that Linux is Red Hat's bitch now and that you are not allowed to criticize RHEL products like systemd, GNOME, Wayland, etc. Otherwise a specialized team of shills will be dispatched to your thread to call you names and discredit you.

>>59936562
dam rekt

>>59936950
Yes it can. Just set the filetype to *.txt when saving, select encoding from the popup and it'll work just fine.

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>>59932828
>this shit again
another episode of wankers abusing commands without understanding them, whining against Lennart when they fuck up their system, and then everybody cries when Lennart does some fucking bullshit because he shouldn't be allowed near a keyboard.

God I fucking hate the linux community sometimes.

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This is the retard writing Linux' new Systemd/Linux operating system.

>>59936562
>i have no programming knowledge, that's why I'm so deeply impressed by Poettering's enterprise C code

>>59937015
>>59937008
>>59933016

How does it feel having Red Hat dick in your mouth?

>>59936965
Linux is not Unix, so it doesn't need to conform to POSIX.

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I want to kill people like this. Probably a fucking 12 year old

>>59937040
It doesn't need to, but in practice it's 99% conformant.
The 1% is POSIX brain damage like 512 Byte blocks in df and other shit.

>>59937081
BEHEAD THOSE WHO INSULT SYSTEMD!!!

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>>59937036
pretty good

>>59937081
>>59937098

>yes I am terrible angry
>not a pajeet

>>59937081
What exactly makes his opinion worth less?

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>>59935426

>programming an init manually by hand

vs

>letting a program use systems math to optimize an init system as perfectly as possible

>>59937083
You don't understand.
If POSIX does it, its bad.
Try to prove me wrong anti-systemd shill!!!!!!!

>>59937111

he's feigning outrage when he probably doesn't even know what the hell he's talking about (basically /g/ in a nutshell)

>>59937124
what

>>59937134
>ermagerd look at his commits!!111
#spoilers I stopped using my shithub account for uploading code when my undergrad ended. I only use local source control now.

>>59937134
And you deduced this how exactly?

You totally aren't talking out of your ass just because your Lord and Savior Poettering was despicably attacked by facts.

>>59937180
>And you deduced this how exactly?

It's pretty clear by his outraged comment that he has the linux knowledge of a 10 year old. First of all, there was no reason for his post in the first place other than to get attention. Then he just restates what is already on the table with horrible grammar and adds nothing to the conversation.

>>59937149

http://wwwhome.math.utwente.nl/~poldermanjw/onderwijs/DISC/mathmod/book.pdf

It's pretty fucking straightforward

>>59937134

What he said is not incorrect, just because his commit history is virtually empty does not mean that what said has any less worth.

And you should be outraged too. The person who is leading the init software (systemd) project -that the majority of Linux distros use by default- is so dense and unreceptive to feedback.

>>59937313

It's just a pointless addition to the conversation

If you knew anything about programming you'd know that adding your two cents just for the sake of it is one of the most annoying traits of younger linux users that don't know what the hell they are doing. Then he goes on to add the --no-preserve-root safeguard that has ABSOLUTELY FUCKALL to do with the conversation. That's literally just a normie-level tidbit he picked up from the sudo rm -rf /* meme that he thought was applicable.

>>59937205
>It's pretty clear
oh yes, the argumentative power of subjective viewpoint
>by his outraged comment
an outraged reply to an outrageous statement by Poettering who considers systemd deleting your root is "[not] this much of a problem", but I guess Lennart can never be in the wrong
>that he has the linux knowledge of a 10 year old
the example he put forth has no factual errors, and no deep knowledge of linux is necessary in this issue anyway, so how exactly did you arrive at this revelation?

I'm not even going to analyze this further since we arrived at peak embarrassment already.

>>59937396
at the end of the day the users have to have some responsibility for the commands they run

otherwise we are going to have so many safeguards built into gnu that nothing will perform as intended. this is exactly the problem with selinux

>>59937443
Users should at least be able to expect a core part of the system to behave sanely and to follow well-established conventions.

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if (endswith(path, "/..") || endswith(path, "/../"))
    return -EINVAL;

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't this let through it ending with /..//
I don't know if multiple / get combined into one when being passed in.

>>59937378

Autism at its finest folks

>>59937485
>well-established conventions

You mean like the conventions INHERENT TO THE COMMAND?

no-preserve-root (if we are going to use this nonsensical example) wasn't even a thing until 2007-08ish

It was literally a safeguard for normies that canonical pushed for to prevent buntu users from nuking themselves

Now even when I chroot into installs and run a rm command I have to remember why the fuck the command isn't executing in the manner I've told it to

It's fucking asinine and worse than the systems-influenced changes to philosophy

The whole point of linux is to NOT PROTECT THE USER FROM HIMSELF so it doesn't get in the way of actual knowledgeable users

>>59937492
// is interpreted as /

>>59937553
What are you talking about?
The problem that the bug's OP had was with ".*".
rm handled that the same for like 30 years.

>>59937607
yes, thank you for proving my original point >>59937081 that the guy trying to get attention by adding his two cents about no-preserve-root is a fucking moron and doesn't know wth he is talking about

>>59937620
Why are you getting mad at some random reply?

>>59937378

Actually, you just didn't read his comment. He essentially contrasted Lennarts lack of care in making sure the utility didn't break the OS by comparing it to the basic protections the regular util has when the user issues rm -rf /. These protections are there for a reason and your attitude of "user should take responsibility" for a one character mistake is a callous and unnecessary one.

Also your earlier posts reek of an angry unemployed student with a case of autism

>>59937040
Both GNU coreutils & busybox (as well the BSD implementations) conform to this POSIX requirement so your argument is completely beside the point.

>>59937645
>shifting the goal posts

My original point still stands that 12 year-olds that post shit like that to get attention are infuriating

>>59937653
>These protections are there for a reason

Because after 20 years someone decided to change something for the better....oh that's right, that's exactly the same thing as creating systemd, the thing this whole thread was shitting on

Either the logic is a) retarded or b) circular. Regardless it was completely unnecessary, yet something that happens every day during software development

Why does this thread exist? It is fixed already.

>>59937699
>because all code should be magically perfect

...says the man that doesn't know how to program

>>59937698
I find it more infuriating that the project lead of a critical component of an OS I use makes dumb comment.

>>59937081
>ad hominem argument
>a retarded one at that

end your life

>>59937443
>at the end of the day the users have to have some responsibility for the commands they run

and how is this the user's fault you retard?
the whole point is that systemd poorly reimplemented rm in a confusing way that absolutely disregards both decades-old conventions AND standards, in addition to forgoing safety and sanity checks especially when deleting something using wild-cards
and then Lennart has the nerve to write that deleting root is not that much of a problem and that it's all UNIX's fault anyway, even though it's trivial to google the opposite is true
there's also the issue that a high-profile linux userspace developer should perhaps know how the core parts of userspace behave

>>59937709
Are you replying to the wrong guy m8? If not I'm confused as to what you are referring to.

>>59937698

t. retard

>>59937698
>Because after 20 years someone decided to change something for the better....
Except that:
A) this particular change is awfully dangerous
B) systemed *might* be better than SysVinit in *some* regards, but it's definitely inferior to other modern systems such as OpenRC or runit

>>59937561
True, that's why it bypasses the bug fix.

>>59937698

>Because after 20 years someone decided to change something for the better.

Now explain how removing that protection would be beneficial to the Linux user base.

>>59937781
>>59937759
>>59937743
>>59937734
>>59937729

>>59937857

>>59937868
>Pajet pretending /g/ was ever in favor of systemd

This is some advanced trickery, here have $0.0003 RedHat shekels, don't spend them all at once

>>59937868
to be fair, a bug deleting root is pretty notable
poettering's arrogant and ignorant response is just a cherry on top

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>>59937868
You still haven't brought up a single good argument. pathetic.

>>59937915
>there's a bug
>it's fixed in an hour
>this is a bad thing

>>59937930
The bug was in there for a year

>>59937930
>>59937975
and it's still not fixed since known and somewhat common corner cases remain
https://github.com/systemd/systemd/pull/5655

Why is he reimplementing coreutils in the first place? Does his utility actually do anything that rm does not?

>>59937930
It's a software project where 1 or at best 2 people decide what constitutes a bug and what doesn't. Time has shown they love to sweep issues under the rug. Got to have a severe case of Stockholm syndrome when you celebrate this stuff.

>>59938042
Coreutils lack dem sweet DBUS interfaces.

>>59938042
Because spawning a tiny process is so much overhead!

Everything has to be included in big binaries which communicate through dbus to combat that bloat.

>>59933058
Do you literally have shit for brains?

>>59938042
>Why is he reimplementing coreutils in the first place?
because calling shell commands from C code is cumbersome at best

>Does his utility actually do anything that rm does not?
yes, it deletes . and .. unlike POSIX/SUS-conforming (and sane) utilities
it has the potential to delete / if you don't expect this particular thing to be botched

>>59938113
>because calling shell commands from C code is cumbersome at best
system("rm") is cumbersome?
>complaining about cumbersomeness in C code

>>59938113
Even if it was cumbersome he could just copy and paste the existing code into his project or make it a library or something.

>>59935426

what the fuck you're mumbling about commie?

hate lennart all you want, but kill yourself. or go cry on some liberal subreddit, not here.

What's the truth here?

>>59932828
R! /foo/.* - - - - -
nani?

>>59938220
>system("rm") is cumbersome?
yes, because system() has to go through the whole song and dance of calling /bin/sh, which then calls the command, and it's slightly dependent on what provides /bin/sh in some corner cases
it also introduces some overhead which can get noticeable when you have to process many jobs (but probably not the case here)

>>59938253
or, you know, look up what rm actually does in a publicly accessible standard
I'm starting to think systemd is an elaborate joke and poettering is trying to find out how far he can push it

>>59933016
desu lennart could have researched this before commenting

there's just no interpretation of this that favors him

and I say this as a guy who likes redhat

>>59937492
whose this semen demon

>>59935426
fuck off

the only way those people can survive is because the first-world nations prop up the global economy

let's just remove any technological innovation from the past 150 years and see how well those people could survive without advanced agriculture, transportation, electricity, computers, or best of all: medicine.

>>59938356
Poettering doesn't think.
He's one of those types that got called smart by normies one too many times and now he's just shitting out code, believing it to be gold.

>>59938389
he's either pedophile or some liberal animelover.

sage.

>>59938356
Like they care about overhead. This is how Linux resolves hostnames under systemd:
>It uses nsswitch to basically take over gethostbyname*() and
>getaddrinfo() [...]
>The process turns a request for binary DNS data into into XML, feeds it
>into the sytemd/dus ecosystem, which turns it into binary DNS to send
>it to the forwarder. The binary DNS answer then gets turned into XML
>goes through systemd/dbus, then is turned back into binary DNS to feed
>back into glibc.

>>59938356
Why not posix_spawn then?

>>59938485
But it does that asynchronously!
That makes everything automatically fast - web devs told me so.

>>59938393
>just shitting out code, believing it to be gold.
Daily life at Red Hat. He is just the most notorious dude among them.

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>>59938526
What is it with German Red Hat employees?

>>59938339
Lennart asks if he understands something correctly. People proceed to shit on him for being wrong. It becomes autistic screeching and he locks the thread.

>>59938776
>Lennart's retarded NIH obsession causes someone's whole disk to be deleted
>responds with "that's lunix for ya"

>>59938776
this

there was no reason for that last guy to pile on and LET him KNOW how MUCH this bug AND Lennart's response ANGERED him by CAPITALIZING every OTHER word

>>59937040
>so it doesn't need to conform to POSIX.
then enjoy your niche 0.00001% OS

>>59938776
nice try Lennart, but this whole thread proves you wrong
no need to go about it a second time

>>59938816
are you all right anon? do you need medical attention?

>>59938892
>are you all right anon? do you need medical attention?

just trying to imitate the sperg that replied to poettering before he locked it

>>59938926
I like your persistence at defending poor Lennart from those dastardly facts, but it appears to be futile

>>59936562
Cry harder Harry Potter.
You are a hack of a developer that shit himself in to a community filled with autists.

B A S E D lennart blowing /g/ the fuck out.

an operating system should never hold your hand.
Learn what you're doing and take responsibilities for your action.

A surgeon doesn't go file a bug report on medhub whenever he turns someone into a paralytic because he was drinking and can't read an RTG scan properly

>>59937698
>my point still stands
What point? Calling him a 12 year old and invalidating his comment because he has no commits? I'm pretty sure that's an Ad-hominem.

>R!
what's that

>>59938298
>commie
That's just a buzzword for retards that don't understand anything about the economy.

I bet you are American and don't even realize you are the biggest socialist state on the planet because your currency is worthless inside its borders.
Enjoy your high GDP, toxic food and products and relative poverty kek.

>>59938389
>4 billion people are the same 1.6~ billion people in poverty
kek, another retard that reads Fox News or some equally worthless media.
Most of the producer economy in the FIRST world don't even depend on money much. Money for most of them is an extra bonus. If the global economy died right now, most won't give a single shit.
Meanwhile poorfags like you will be dead in a week because the only food you understand is McDonalds and think food comes straight from Ronald McDonalds tear ducts or some retarded shit.
At best, large numbers of them use local currencies not traded globally, or they trade in favours for each other, or even just the classic dinner with the family.

Those "SUPER" advanced farming techniques have been used before modern fucking civilization. (literally 6000 years old techniques)
The only recent advance in farming has been hydro, aero and aquaponics.
The only other thing has been use of machines to farm faster, which allowed for larger amounts of food to be farmed quicker.
That work can still easily be done by hand. In fact, using one of the -ponics above, it can be done considerably better and in higher density on the same plot.

>>59938435
Right-right-central, actually.

>>59939754
>I'm pretty sure that's an Ad-hominem

It's not ad hominem when the point I'm raising about his credibility is directly related to the problem at hand

If you are going to accuse others of logical fallacies then you should at least know what they fucking mean

>>59937443
Nice, you moved the goalposts to another continent. And I'm pretty sure that system integrity > performance every day of the week

>>59939775
>Those "SUPER" advanced farming techniques have been used before modern fucking civilization. (literally 6000 years old techniques)
>The only recent advance in farming has been hydro, aero and aquaponics.
>The only other thing has been use of machines to farm faster, which allowed for larger amounts of food to be farmed quicker.
>That work can still easily be done by hand. In fact, using one of the -ponics above, it can be done considerably better and in higher density on the same plot.


>being this retarded

>>59939782
His credibility doesn't invalidate his comment. Pottering, don't you have a systems to maintain?

>>59939795
>arguing with a farmer on the history of farming

Do you even know how little land is needed to support a typical family?
It can be slightly more than halved with a greenhouse and aquaponics setup.
Farming is seriously fucking easy.

Africans need not apply.
Not even being racist. Just being factual.
Quite literally all the good talent left Africa several million years ago.
Africa is Microsoft now. Slowly rotting monolithic shithouse.

>>59939814
sure it does

>no programming experience
>brings up a safeguard that is not inherent to the original problem
>uses SPERGY capitalization
>pretends he is offended
>makes the same point (but worse) that other people have already mentioned to lennart

>>59932828
>rm is part of systemd
wtf

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>>59939873
>who needs modern farming practices?

>>59939884
>Factually correct content
>Reasonably alarmed ad Harry Potter's denying a bug that destroys the system is a problem
Is any criticism acceptable against our God red hat?

>>59939912
>factually correct

the sun is a star so lennart is right

cd ..
rm -rf dir

?

>>59939884
>>no programming experience
>commits on shithub equal programming experience

stopped reading there

>>59933996
Can't handle the bants.

>>59939942
it actually has nothing to do with that

It's the way he addressed the problem to begin with, people that program understand that sometimes mistakes happen and people have brain farts. No one that actually does this seriously or for a living piles on like that by providing nothing to the conversation that wasn't already addressed

>>59939895
>lives in Texas
People live on the fucking Arctic and pass over the north pole regularly, doesn't mean they will survive if they took off their clothes for more than a few minutes.

Also, greenhouses are a thing.
They work very well and are modern.
Going one step further, using one of the -ponics you can increase the density of that greenhouse considerably, not to mention growth rate.
In fact, Texas is very good for that because of the sun it gets. (compared to me in retard Scotland, but dat rain tho, waterwheels, wind and lights for me)

You need to take advantage of your environment.
The Chinese turned mountains in to fucking Minecraft-like mountains (terraces) to farm food efficiently when the rest of the world were still crying over the last ice age.

>>59939939
Unix convention AND standard (both POSIX and SUS) is for rm to ignore . (dot) and .. (dot dot) as a safety feature against accidents involving wildcards (rm -rf /tmp/.* which would match .. that equals to / here)

systemd's internal reimplementation of rm ignores this and makes it very easy to nuke your system if you make the mistake of expecting sane behavior from poettering's shitware

lennart then goes on to show his ignorance how rm works, despite attempting to (poorly) reimplement it

>>59940069
>as a safety feature
Against retards I see.

If you're going down that route it'll never end. Better just to have retards nuke their systems. Fuck retards.

>>59933996
>""open source""
>can't have open discussion
why is this allowed?

>>59940064
Nobody cares about Africa except everyone else wishing they'd die off so we can use the land.
Only worthwhile place in Africa is the South, and even that is barely much.

Africa is so fucking fucked because of religious nutjobs and militias.
Christian zealots in the middle, Muslim extremism in the north. gg.

10% of African land, even using lazy modern farming could feed the whole planet comfortably with room for 5 desserts.
Of course, a space the size of Wales in aquaponics could feed the planet to 10 billion~
Shits fucking magic.
So many food producers around the world have been running test-beds for them over the past 5 years and many have went full-production now.
You can run them easily with as little as a Raspberry Pi, some sensors and 2 huge metal / plastic beds.
Having an air-tight room will prevent a lot of water loss. Better yet if you use an artificial water capture method and pipe it back in to the farm.

Just imagine large aquaponics skyscrapers in every major city. Traditional farming would go the way of the Dodo.

>>59940198
>argues that we don't need first world technology
>except for a raspberry pi SBC with parts sourced from all around the first world, including the mining of rare earth metals
>except for plastic and metal that is created by the oil economy in the first world, which is propped up by American hegemony thanks to military technology

you are fucking delusional mate

>>59940088
That's up to debate, but more importantly, it's not relevant to this issue.
The standard behavior is to ignore . and .. so systemd should be consistent with it, especially since it's a potentially very dangerous operation and introducing confusion by deviating from standards is a dick move here.

But wait, it gets worse. Systemd devs consider it a bug and have made a fix, which means the behavior is to be as standard-conforming as possible. This betrays that whoever reimplemented rm in systemd was a fucking idiot who didn't understand the thing he was reimplementing.
Seriously, all the relevant standards are publicly accessible and some distros even distribute them in manpage format. But I guess that's too much effort for systemd devs.

>>59940234
That is convenience, not a requirement.
It can be done purely with hand and using wood basins.

I am not arguing against first world technology at all.
I am arguing that money isn't needed to have a good life, as evidenced by MOST humans alive today.
Equally these people tend to live the longest. (and have the highest incidence of centenarians weirdly, especially in Italy)

This was in relation to Harry Potter skimming over important things of a system he is working with because he things he is oh-so-better than it, then coming back to bite him in the ass.
De-facto standards exist for a reason. They help. Just like money does.
Things COULD be different, but at this point in time it would take so much work to change over.
So much has been invested in the money-driven economy that it would be painful to reverse it so suddenly.
Progressive changes with time is the only option now. (unless WW3, supervolcanoes, Ayy lmaos, asteroid, etc.)

>>59932828
Can someone explain how systemd have reimplemented rm -rf and and what I need to install in order to use this new tool?

>>59940251
Well, did their reimplementation have its own manpage?

If so, no excuses.

>>59940198
>You can run them easily with as little as a Raspberry Pi

>using a RPi
>not a ESP8266

Quit bullshitting about things you don't understand

>>59940419
https://github.com/jsynacek/systemd/blob/master/src/basic/rm-rf.c

>>59940442
Why did systemd reinvent the wheel, what's wrong with just using GNU coreutils? Or BusyBox?

>>59940430
>ESP8266
You can use those as well.
You can use anything as long as it can interface with sensors.
I'd use those myself.
I've still not decided on an automated system controller yet. I'm in often enough it is easy to check water levels and temperature.

Only said RPi because it is well-known small compute platform and has loads of support.

>>59940442
so it is a tool they use internally or what?
It is not something that gets installed along systemd as a separate tool, did they just reinvent it so they could link to a less bloated version?

>>59940430
Why would you need WLAN?
A cheap STM is the obvious choice here.

>>59940815
So you can remotely check your magic beans growth.

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Friendly reminder that Void Linux is extremely comfy and is perfect for you if you've been using Arch.

>>59940815
they would need to be networked for remote monitoring and communication between the nodes, and so that they could receive remote input (i.e. in the form of weather monitoring)

>>59940429
How do you expect unknown bugs to be described in manpages? (The BUGS section is for already known bugs.)

Again, they didn't know about the standard, that's why it's considered a bug now and getting hastily fixed.

>>59935426
>People without modern medicine live longer than people that do

>>59940893
There are Ethernet capable STMs.
It's not like wifi has anywhere near range to be useful alone.

>>59940815
are there any STM boards with gpio for substantially less than $6.50?

>>59940785
They didn't want to call rm -rf right from the C source code so they reimplemented it as a function in the systemd code.

>>59940935
Yes, 2$ STM32 boards and <1$ STM8 boards are on Ali.

>>59940907
>hasn't read everything else
It's been answered.

I'm not against money.
It just isn't required to have a good life.
Money just makes it easier to scale things up as a society.
It can be done without it, but the world would be so radically different, not to mention it would be a fucking pain to convert to such a system now that the money-driven economy is so deeply inserted in to everywhere.
At best, the most that would ever be needed is local currencies for the sake of pooling resources to do anything large.
But that can easily be done with a bean counter counting literal beans or wooden panels or whatever.
Some societies were run on SALT remember.
Money is an abstraction on top of an abstraction. It's like Visual Basic. Useful, but fucking moronic regardless of its usefulness.

Can someone explain to me why people care so much about this particular init system? Is this because they hate this Lennart guy? Because I don't ever see anyone talking about any other init system besides systemd.

>>59940994
Robust is better than perfect. Money is the most robust system of exchanging goods created to date.

>>59941013
No ones forcing other init systems down my throat.
Replacing Sys V or supplementing with stuff like daemontools is fairly easy. Actually used to run pre-systemd Arch with minit.

>>59941013
because it's the best and therefore it is obsoleting all of the other alternatives that people are accustomed to using

>>59940948
I still fail to see how this is a bad thing.
Surely they could have saved time by using gnu or busybox rm, but is it really a problem?

>>59940994
money actually makes things efficient

I don't want to trade my old bed to some person for their dog so I can trade the dog to someone else to get a cat so I can trade the cat for a pizza like I wanted in the first place

>>59941085
ipc/d-bus

>>59941059
>the best
The best at what? Playing music? Taking pictures? Mail client?

>>59941032
>>59941091
See, I agree with that.

The problem is so many fucking loopholes exist that makes it broken as fuck.
Until the world at large come to agreements, it is going to continue to get abused.

I'm more in favour of the Nordic method of a strong welfare system in the back that prevents the private industry being scummy to the work-force since they can just fuck-off and find new work or careers very easily.
Even Sweden despite the disaster that it is going through, it is so much better than it could be using the American / British mixed economy methods.

>>59941013
>Can someone explain to me why people care so much about this particular init system?
Maybe it's because other init systems aren't nuking root filesystem, nor do they have the capacity to locally DoS the system, contain DNS vulnerable to cache poisoning, etc.

Frankly, while systemd is a huge farce, it really is the incredible arrogance of the lead developer that makes it a popular target.

>>59941123
optimizing services and dependencies for speed using systems theory (hence the name) via better service integration and ipc

>>59941085
Surely, you don't expect rational behavior from systemd.

>>59941123
kek
At this rate all those things will be included by 2020.

>>59941210
It's rational if you see it as a way for Red Hat to get more shekels for support services.
Unify everything into a complex and completely integrated solution that only the developers, that happen to work for you, have a deep understanding of.

>>59941264
learning how to format systemd unit files is a lot easier than writing init scripts for most people

>>59941293
Superficially yes.
But few really understand what's going on inside the hood, aren't aware of pitfalls (e.g. systemd deleting the whole disk), etc.

A SysV-style init script, while definitely a mess (which has been fixed by many other solutions like daemontools) wears its complexity on its sleeve.

>>59941349
>e.g. systemd deleting the whole disk

That was a bug, no different than using rm -rf /* pre-1998 or whenever they added the no-preserve-root failsafe

SystemD allows the same amount of system control (hell you can still use init scripts or cron) while optionally doing everything for you. For most people, the init or services configuration isn't the reason they are using their computer (yes, in some embedded or other niche cases then complete init control could be warranted) and the whole point was to remove that layer of complexity for users so that they can focus on just using the computer.

>>59941443
>SystemD allows the same amount of system control
Then tell me the order your services will start in

>>59941443
>That was a bug,
According to Lennart that was its intended behaviour.

Did Lennart try to reimplement it? If not, what's wrong with his initial response?

>>59941557
the best order, that's the whole point

>/g/ shilling systemd this much
truly there's only 2 boards left on these sites that aren't riddled with retarded corporate assslickers

>>59941557
that's random
just as breaking cyclic dependencies of units is random in systemd. what works one boot could very well lead to rescue.target the next one.

it's one of those init systems you'd never dare mess with remotely unless you also have remote serial console access

>>59938298
> he said something bad about muh capitalism.
> he must be a cummie.

Grow up /pol/ster. The world is bigger than your containment board.

>>59942241
what boards?

>>59939705
>an operating system should never hold your hand.
Agreed. In fact, every time you try to rm something we should just have the OS wipe root.

>>59932828
>Built-in spell check
Graphical UI
>Elegant and predictable handling of unexpected behaviors
>Microsoft Windows integration

You haven't used vim much, have you?

>>59939705
>Learn what you're doing and take responsibilities for your action.
documentation for that
>R Recursively remove a path and all its subdirectories (if it is a directory). Lines of this type accept shell-style globs in place of normal path names. Does not follow symlinks.
How else would you interpret that? I would have expected R /cocks/.* to remove every dot file and directory within /cocks/, not follow .. as my shell doesn't do that shit either with .*

>>59932828
>Literally trying to replace something he knows nothing about
When will Lennart just fucking die and someone sane just fucking nuke SystemDicks already

looks like the fix is merged

so you're pointing out a bug in a piece of software that was fixed?

seems pretty normal. and i wasn't around when coreutils was being developed but my guess is that rm had a similar effect until the roadblocks were put in place

>>59941557
>Then tell me the order your services will start in
depends on which units i want to run
I don't specify the order, I only specify which units are depending on other units

remind me again why so many distros moved to systemd?

>>59949340
Fedora: because Red Hat
Arch: because a Red Hat employee is an Arch developer
Debian: because it will be too hard to package Gnome without it
Dozen Debian-based distros: because Debian did