Do you really believe the "there are too few qualified software

>>59873780
no

Absolutely not, it's a ploy to keep wages low

WE WUZ PRAGRAMMAZ N SHIEET

>too few qualified people around
>instead of focusing on making existing people better let's dump millions in educating people with zero interest in software engineering

There's too few high quality programmers in general. The problem is that we have Pajeets coding trash at the whims of out-of-touch manager's manager's manager, then we have all these idiot meme "coders" in the west that are bringing out things like Plasma 5 and GNOME 3.

And because an incestuous industry has built up around this (developers developing for the sake of development) the user suffers.

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>>59873807
>>59873834

FUCK THIS MAKES ME ANGRY

WHY DO COMPANIES INSIST ON GETTING GIRLS TO CODE WHO CARES ABOUT "GENDER GAP" IT'S ABOUT THE PRODUCT AND RESULTS NOT WHO MAKES IT REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>>59873780
Since qualified, in this case, includes being paid partly in continued residence eligibility here in the USA rather than cash, yes, I'm sure it's true.

>>59873843
The problem is that so much software is now made for the designer. Read some of the manifestos of these projects and you'll see them talking about how much easier this is to develop on and such like, as if I as a user gives a shit how much harder it is to deal with Xorg than Wayland.

It's also why there's a million different languages when really only a handful need to exist.

>>59873843
Tokenism. Being concerned about gender gap, equality and all social justice causes du jour is fashionable and gets good press, but they actually do nothing to "solve" these "issues", it's just good and old hypocrisy

>>59873797
But that would suggest wages would be high, as qualified software engineers would be in great demand.

>>59873780
>"there are too few qualified software engineers available in the USA"

I don't know if that's true or not.

But what I can definitely say -- after 20 years of experience as a software engineer at 5 different companies -- is that there are too few GOOD software engineers in the USA.

>>59873780
Obviously. With Muricas "culture" and schooling it's shocking that shit works at all. It'd be cheaper to take local talent than importing Pajeets but the local talent simply doesn't exist in a big enough quantity. Most fresh out of US college programmers are memers.

>>59873807
It's not the job of the companies to fix the retarded educational system. At best it's their job to pay taxes ... but then again, the tax code is fucked too and it's not their job to fix that either.

>>59873892
The easier something is to develop, the more people can contribute, the faster you'll advance. You're right about languages though.

>>59873780

No they are just constantly at war with labor.

>>59873993
Unless you're getting paid in credit at the company store, you're getting paid too much.

>>59874081
>The easier something is to develop, the more people can contribute, the faster you'll advance.

That may be true, unfortunately these idiots can't even get the basics right. And more people contributing isn't inherently a good thing despite what the proselytizers of open source say. Everything good that has come out of open source has been a remake of a propriety piece of software, including the Linux kernel itself.

>>59873780
As someone who had to hire programmers in America: yes.

>>59873780
>a group of people are getting paid 65k a year each to make these ridiculous sjw adverts that have zero actual desired results outside of liberals clamouring for it and sharing on twitter
>could be instead used to fund huge groups of people who are actually interested to learn the shit
>no, we need to attempt to change the face of programming to be cutsey and feminine and with cheap gimmicky slogans!
>that will make minority women that struggled in high school want to take on a an extremely excruitating career that is already extremely suffering from a shortage of actual interested and motivated workers

>>59874209
There are definitely downsides with it too but overall the positives overweight. We are already in a time were fuckloads of people can contribute instead only couple huge companies that can afford computers. The number of potential contributors will only raise and it's mostly good.

> Everything good that has come out of open source has been a remake of a propriety piece of software
Perhaps but originality is overrated either way. Android is just a shitty iOS clone but it added new ideas to the table that helped to improve the original. MS and Applel niggered tons of ideas and bits from open sores too.

Nah. They just want to saturate the market with qualified people so that they can lower wages drastically

>>59874279
They've been saying that more contributors makes a better product for years and I have yet to see any sign that this is true. And this isn't be being a killjoy, I have just been through the journey you're now on.

And the point I was making with the software was that there is nothing inherently better about diverse contributions compared to a bunch of boring guys in suits telling the underlings what to make the computers do. If Office 2000 (for the sake of argument) was free and worked on Linux no one would even bother with even an up-to-date version of Libre/Open Office.

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>>59873780
Decades ago, they would train you on the job.
Software dev isn't engineering where fuckups cost lives.
If they were really hard pressed to find qualified applicants they would TRAIN YOU.
Now they just want colleges to do it, and it's helped deride the higher education system from a lofty goal for the well to do, to a watered down high school degree, the bare minimum if you want to receive rejection letters on your applications.

>>59874427
To be fair, Office is a bit unfair example since it's an extremely good product and was for decades now. It's hard to improve on that.

Where will we be in 10 years if this keeps up?

>>59874657
There will be no dev jobs left in the western world.
All development work will be in india and a few isolated spots in the california coast.

>>59874465
I was more just pointing out an example that boring men in suits telling bespectacled nerds grants better software to the user when all is said and done.

As a user all of this is worthless to me. Same with how many Linux distros fuck around with media playback and codecs and list their philosophical objections like I'll stop wanting to watch this DVD after reading it.

Open Source and Free Software is all just a big playground for developers who don't have anyone telling them what to do, when sooner or later that bubble will burst and some of them will have to go and get real jobs, either in computing or otherwise.

>>59874672
>Open Source and Free Software is all just a big playground for developers who don't have anyone telling them what to do
Sure but it's a good environment to come up with new ideas and have freetards help to turn these into good ideas, so boring men in suits can take it and turn it into great ideas.

>>59873780
you guys wanted freedom, you now get the freedom to compete with third world almost-slave labour

good luck though

>>59874447
Companies used to train people because the job was new and they had no option otherwise.

Training is an extra cost, they moved the cost to the employee as it should be.

If you want a different system vote for a candidate that values free college education, otherwise stfu.

>>59874710
Again, I've yet to see any evidence this will happen, or has started happening.

And until it does happen we all have to endure the whims of these children who have been given far too much freedom to exert their will over the world of technology.

>>59874777
This is fine in countries where college is free, but in places like the US, college is literally a form of gambling.
You're taking on a $20-50k loan for 4 years of schooling and zero guarantees of employablity in your field.
Most college graduates spend years working minimum wage scrub jobs while job hunting, except now they have to pay off their uncancellable student debt.
You don't need to go to college to do that.

>>59874657
Software Engineering unions will crop up and they'll set up an expensive certification racket, replacing 4 year B.Sc degrees as the must have qualification.

>>59873780
Fuck no, we've got a shitloads of black girls.

>>59873807
why do you presume they have zero interest in it? shit might just not be an obvious (or easy) option for them.

I mean, most dudes wouldn't be fashion designers. doesn't mean they wouldn't enjoy it and be great at it.

>>59874813
lmao not my fault you're fucking retarded and couldn't get a full scholarship.

>>59875174
i'm not a high schooler anymore, that ship has sailed for me

>>59873780
The term "qualified" is unquantifiable. Employers have extremely specific and unrealistic expectations for all hires, and refuse to compromise on them.

Team coding is largely a mistake. Most team projects are fucking garbage. People that believe in team coding, believe that good code can just come out if you believe in some horseshit "process", even when most the team is retards. So idiots are shoved together to churn out some retard concept through the"process" that, one or 2 actual good programmers could do.

So I kinda believe there aren't enough "rockstars". There's truth in it, but they twist the truth to import worthless pajeets.

There should room to just let the rockstars do their thing without this horseshit, let the others support them, not get in the way.

Code/ideas should be born from fire, not "designed" in a meeting where retards get input.

And this is all coming from someone who is far from rockstar.

>>59875881
Basically the same kind of people who, in the 80s, wrote sharewae in BASIC are now not only writing enterprise software (at the same standard) but are the ones calling the shots.

There'll always be a place for those kinds of people and what they do, but for God's sake keep them away from the actual product.

>>59875969
Yeah. I mean look at the pushes on agile or whatever process, and I know hating on it is a meme. But it's middle management fuckery down to the core, it's to prop up retards to some kind of standard.
You prototype something with a bunch of bad code then fix it as you go along.
Which is maybe a benefit when you work in this broken team paradigm. But I think the whole system is fucked if that's even needed

>>59873909

That's very insightful, anon. Today I learned something new.

>>59874906
If they were interested in it they would be naturally drawn to the right subjects. I didn't ever think I was going to be a programmer until recently but I was always fascinated with technology and web development since I was a child.

>might just not be an obvious (or easy) option for them

I would think it's quite obvious considering it's one of the only jobs with strong career development potential left, and it's easy for them because HR are falling over themselves to hire the diversity crowd

>>59875174
>tfw I'm a white nontraditional make student regularly getting 3.5 or above semester GPA but incapable of being awarded scholarships or work study
I apply the day the application is available, I have letters of recommendation. Everyone I talk to with a scholarship is non-male, non-white, and gets worse grades than I do.

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>>59873780
>there are too few qualified software engineers available in the USA

> Apply now for our entry level job!!
>5 years exp. required, 10 prefered.
Agreed. Companies refuse to put in the work to train those that want the job, so ultimately they are at fault.

Why can't I find a new CS graduate with 5 years of React and NodeJS experience? See, this is what I'm talking about when I say there's a shortage of qualified STEM grads.

>>59873807
AMD approach. More weak cores vs fewer strong cores. Guess it depends on how parallezible your business is.

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>>59876211
If you're that qualified, then finding an internship should be easy. many of those jobs will award scholarships if you do well there.

You complain about your station in life but it doesn't really sound like you and your family are struggling to pay for school.

I reserve the right to be wrong on that though.

>>59876211
Blame your ancestors lmao

>>59876357
My family doesn't pay, and I live on loans. It sucks, but I'll find a way to handle it after graduation.

>>59876211
lmaoooooooooooo you mad, privileged white boy ;_; cry me some white tears you piece of shit

>>59876083
>it's to prop up retards to some kind of standard

The thing is, I don't think people understand just how important having knowledgeable people is. The tools made by the geniuses to make their lives easier for a project are then used by the next people as the "base" system, and it keeps going on like that.

I'm not saying that we should all work entirely in assembly and ignore all helpful tools, but having all these people in control of something so important will not end well, say if one part of the stack decides to shit the bed and no one knows how to fix it.

Not to get all apocalyptic but I just have this feeling like we're making our computers into the habitat from The Machine Stops.

>>59876147
>If they were interested in it they would be naturally drawn to the right subjects.
Sure, this happens. But amazing YouTuber Destiny (lelz) had a point on this: these programs that are encouraging women to join the STEM fields really do work. There are more women today in these fields today than even 20 or 50 years ago.

>>59876321
you got the completely wrong, no one with a STEM degree would lower themself to touch that JS bullshit.

>>59876373
>>59876373
>I'll find a way to handle it after graduation.
Don't do that

>>59876373
>I live on loans.
Or this. Trust me, 70k after taxes - rent - bills -
bullshit things you *will* buy means you'll be paying at most $600 a month on your loans, which means 8+ years paying them off.
Go talk to the financial aid office like mid/end semester to get a jump on next year scholarships..

>>59876399
>There are more women today in these fields today than even 20 or 50 years ago.

So?

>>59873780
Yep. And the number gets reduced further in a corporate view since even if there may be 20÷ actually decent emgineers even in a diploma mill (of which there are many in the USA) you don't want to even risk getting the other 80÷.

People on /g/ mistakingly thinking that quality code is a thing while the goal of business is to generate product at lowes cost, then rolling out endless """updates"""

>>59876253
No, they hire the rest of the world instead. Whether they get 5 years of experience for entry level wages or are actually willing to take a somewhat better, very solid engineer for a bit more, they can get it.

Capitalism, eh.

>>59876383
Whites' tears have no color you racist piece of shit.

>>59876526
To be fair that also suits the developers just as well. Constantly rolling a beta release? What job security that is!

>>59876624
And support pajeets will always be employed since someone have to deal with irritated end users.

>>59873780
Despite what the /g/ autists say, it's true. Programming is incredibly boring and difficult to do. Most people don't want to do it because they're not autists. Don't care if every classroom teaches it, it's still a shit profession.

With that said, companies are being cheap jews for importing cheap labor from other countries, sometimes paying them next to nothing for their work. They should pay them $150,000 minimum, end of story. This will encourage additional people to enter the profession and pay existing people higher wages. the poo in the loos get either more money, or leave the country depending on if they're any good or not.

>>59876721
If they had small, highly skilled, teams with the wages they deserve, then they'd actually save money because they wont need 100 Pajeets or hipsters to do the work that a quality team of 5 could do in half the time.

>>59876659
>irritated end users

Usually irritated that something that used to work no longer does.

reminder that corporations have used slave labour many times in history. if they could, they wouldn't pay you anything.

>>59876211
Sucks, I'm whiter than bread and my parents make $125k a year (solid middle class, but mostly never considered for financial aid) and I got a full blank check scholarship. Living expenses, books, food, etc. all taken care of.

Rocking that 3.93 GPA and already offered an NSF scholarship for grad school.

Step the fuck up you retard.