Xbox Scorpio is using Polaris but with 40 CUs and fabbed at 16nm

>3 consoles
>0 games

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>>59767181
More specs, less interesting though.

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>>59767181
>>59767236

>mfw my laptop is more powerful than this shit

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>>59767236

Reminder that quake champions devs said scorpio and ps4 pro won't be enough for it thus it's pc exclusive.
also
>quake
>gamepad
AYYYYYY

>>59767250
and games still run worse because developers are mentally handicapped and can't port to PC
consoles are cancer
I just wish they would all die

>>59767181
CUSTOM ARCH
ya digg?

>>59767181
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RE2hNrq1Zxs

sony on suicide watch

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>>59767236
>jaguar evolved
so long for amdtards claiming it would be a poozen apoo

>>59767252
thats a big CPU

>>59767293
It's Microsoft's choice, going with anything but Jaguar compromises compatibility.

>>59767308
Yeah this. This thing is supposed to be backwards compatible with original xbone, right? Can't really change the CPU much without massive headaches if that's the case.

It's a custom GPU die with DX12 functions embeded into the command scheduler, being fabbed at a different foundry and having more CUs than commercial off the shelve parts isn't strange, the development money is all on microsoft and they're paying for masks, AMD only helps out with design, debugging and IP

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>>59767272
>port to pc

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>>59767373
Is it good then. Could this be real?

>>59767181
why is gayming technology ?

>>59767468
Forza is a special case since it's insanely dependent on fast command queuing and batch instructions, which upgraded Polaris arch in Xbox Scorpio has, most of games won't be like this, in fact I wager most Xbox only games won't be like this, much less the multiplats.

So, while it can do 4k60, it's very game dependent

>>59767468
>it runs just like a PC port with a 1070
wew
t-thanks Microsoft

>>59767181
>>>/v/

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It seems like they are aiming for 4K to be the standard of the Scorpio.

Does this mean anything in the PC graphics card world. Will we see cards not capable of 4K take a nose dive quicker now?

>>59767236
>Jaguar

Is there something wrong with the Puma cores?

>>59767271
>gaymers today don't know good gaming layouts
I bet /v/tards don't even use space for forward

>>59767730
Puma is the same shit as Jaguar only more power efficient.

What's a comparable GPU?

>>59767771
RX 480 but its been tweaked slightly to be a tiny bit more powerful

>>59767709
I don't know, it will probably flop. I hope it delivers because it will force jewvidia to do more

Not ryzen, which seems odd.
4c/8t zen would be way way better than 4+4 jaguar.

>>59767709
>Will we see cards not capable of 4K take a nose dive quicker now?
No, because 95% of people have 1080p or lesser displays.

Whereas 4K TVs are becoming abundant.

>>59767771
RX480 but 11% larger.

However even though it has 40CUs, I imagine they're clocked more around RX470 clocks or lower. Was that revealed?

>>59767783
I don't really think it'll flop because it's the "must have" console for anyone with a 4K TV, which is a lot of people.
You have a choice between real 4K graphics and blurry flickering shit and the choice is clear.
People that had money for a 4K TV can justify the extra cost for the console, too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RE2hNrq1Zxs

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>>59767830
Yeah a lot of people still stuck at 1080p. Hell, I'm not even using that large of a resolution.

>>59767830
They don't need to be 4k
with a proper upscaler it can still look good
when will amd and nvidea make a proper upscaler so I can 1080 better on my 1440p

>>59767830
AMD itself hasn't released Ryzen based APUs, there was no chance custom silicon for 3rd party designs would be ready for deployment this year. Also MS profiled the games on Jaguar and customized silicon based on that, they don't want to change architecture. It's a real impressive chip especially with that hardware DX12 command processor

>>59767830
Okay. 1172 Mhz. So yeah similar to 470 clocks like I guessed.

So about 50% more powerful than the 7970.
So basically my 7970 could pretty much do 4k fine if games specifically optimized for it instead of GIMPWORKS ONE MILLION POLYGON PIECE OF PAPER shit.
But yeah it has the hardware instruction accelerator thing for DX12 too. That's actually interesting. There would be not reason a GPU couldn't have that one it except ONE MILLION VERSIONS OF DX12.
It doesn't seem too different from GCN's hardware scheduler, though?

>>59767730

The CPU isn't drastically much better than what is already being used in the PS4/Xbone right now.

It's going to bottleneck the crap out of the GPU.

>>59767995
has a hardware decoder for DX12 though that'll drastically reduce API overhead.

That CPU is sufficient for 60fps optimized for a single hardware.

>>59767830
>However even though it has 40CUs, I imagine they're clocked more around RX470 clocks or lower. Was that revealed?

1172MHz, so slightly below RX480

> Eight custom x86 cores clocked at 2.3GHz
> 40 customised compute units at 1172MHz
> 12GB GDDR5 RAM
> 326GB/s bandwidth
> 12TB hard drive
> 4K blue ray drive

What is the closest PC match of these specs?

>>59767969
It's different because the GCN scheduler is just a scheduler taking stuff from the CPU, while this one is they're not lying acts more like an asic and has DX12 functions like IASetVertexBuffers embedded, practically skipping the CPUs job, besides pointers and references.
That's why such a slow mobile CPU can be used for this performance, the CPU does very little

>>59768102
Off the shelve GPU with this when?

>>59768150
Never, this is microsoft's secret sauce, possibly patented.
AMD will need to do its own version of this.

Just curious, what GPU is the PS4 Pro's GPU based off of?

I know the basic PS4 was based off of a Radeon HD 7870 iirc

>>59768181
underclocked poolaris.

>>59768102

Even if you do something like that, it's not like the CPU will magically be free for everything. It's a reduction but I don't buy the 50% number, it's probably a best case scenario. If I were to guess, it's more like consistently 25-30% less load with this hardware DX12 implementation.

Jaguar was a pretty good CPU when the alternative was Bulldozer variants but it's really getting drawn to its limits here.

will scorpio have games though? i liked the look of bone s over pspro but literally 3 games for the console and only one appeals to me (all are sequels too)

>>59768243
This is something that's never been done for graphical APIs, you cannot know how much it lowers the strain on the CPU

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>>59767280
2d spectators?

>>59768072
>What is the closest PC match of these specs?
RX480 with a like 3% overclock and a Ryzen 1700 with SMT disabled and undervolted and underclocked to like 1.525ghz

i wish they sold it as both a computer and a game system. if i could run Windows or Linux on it id buy it ina heartbeat. its partially the reason i haven't purchased an 8th or 9th gen console

>>59768243
When you're GPU bound the CPU doesn't matter much.

>>59768275
lol it's done since GCN 6 years ago, you dumb fuck.
The GCN GPUS all have a hardware scheduler.
What the driver is doing that's high overhead is working to unfuck Nvidia Gimpworks trying to send retarded instructions it shouldn't be sending.

This is largely the same thing

>>59767252
>die size 360 sq mm
holy fuck, even 8 core visheras was only 315 sq mm

>>59768333
>unfuck Nvidia Gimpworks
That's why even in non-gameworks DX11 games, GCN shits the bed the second you put any tesselation on it, right?

GCN is dogshit at tesselation, Polaris only quells the problem a bit since it can discard some tesselation that would be unseen but if you're using tesselation that will be seen, it'll still be brought to its knees.

Not to mention that the CPU overhead is STILL there in non-gameworks DX11 games, since AMD can't multithread their commands for the driver thanks to how GCN works.

>>59768371
lol. AMD introduced tessellation. At x8 it's fine. Beyond that you can hardly see a visual difference, definitely not past 16x, and some shit just shouldn't be tessellated and should just use parallax.

>>59768164
>Hardware to perform common compute operations is proprietary

fucking stupid.

from the article:
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2017-project-scorpio-tech-revealed

it could be Polaris, customized and with 4 extra CU's, or not.
it could be jaguar cpu, optimized and further customized, or not

>o, eight cores, organised as two clusters with a total of 4MB of L2 cache. These are unique customised CPUs for Scorpio running at 2.3GHz.

I don't think that article's author even know what a CCX is.
On the gpu side, there were things that could atest to it being a new gpu and others that it's just a beefed up Polaris.

Don't know if this was design, AMD don't want people ruining vega launch, or if the author just doesn't know what the fuck he was talking about.

>>59767879
>23% at 768p

Jesus Christ where did all these laptop gamers come from?

>>59768209
it's not.
>>59768181
it is 7870x2. they literally mirrored the existing gpu.

>>59768839
It's still GCN2.0 found on the original Xbone, but with some improvements copied from Polaris. It's also still Jaguar, but with embedded ASICs for DX12's API and other minor improvements. The fact that it's made on a 16nm process from TMSC strikes me as interesting. What do you think happened with the 14nm/GloFo agreements?

>>59768033
>That CPU is sufficient for 60fps optimized for a single hardware

No it isn't. Not even close for "AAA" gaymes. We've already seen what a Jaguar-based chip with slightly higher clocks does in the PS4 Pro, and it bottlenecks the shit out of an even less powerful GPU to the point where it can't even run simple shit like fucking Snake Pass at a locked 60fps, let alone Battlefield multiplayer.

This is the entire reason why Sony and Microsoft are focusing on 4K/30 rather than 1080/60 like many people want; to shift the load to the stronger part of the hardware, because their shitty laptop CPU can't deliver a consistent 60fps at any resolution.

>>59768916
Most of that bottlenecking is due to the graphics API, not game code. kek.

Scorpio is focusing on 4k/60fps it looks like.

>>59768839
Digital Foundry seems to confirm it's Jaguar cores at higher clocked.

The PS4 and Xbone also use 2 clusters of 4 jaguar cores. But it looks like reduced latency between them like it was reduced with Zen (was like 185ns kek)

>>59768913
microsoft gives the money to manufacture. amd only works for design in this regard.

>>59768887
Ps4 pro is not even Polaris?

>>59768928
It won't hit 4k/60 for anything but indie games, that's a fact dude. Look at the PS4 Pro, despite the better GPU it's shit for 60fps. Rise of the Tomb Raider hovers around 40-50fps due to the CPU bottleneck, I'd expect it to run similarly on Scorpio. Jaguar is simply not as good as a desktop processor for games, we've known this the entirety of 8th gen.

>>59768913
MS has been fabbing their console chips at TSMC for a decade.
Someone already explained, AMD is there to help design and give IP, all major costs are at Microsoft

>>59768973
nope. it is old 7000 series x2.

>>59768984
Developers struggle with concepts related to multi-threading and actually knowing the value of 60 fps.

>>59768984
Did you miss the video where it's doing a solid 4k 60fps in Forza at higher quality settings? And that it's only utilization 60-80% of the GPU?

Fuck off, fucktard. I don't even give a shit about this console and I haven't bought a console in over 10 years, but here you are being a faggot spewing shit out your gabber with nothing but your retarded assumptions to back it up.

>>59768913
one could say that this new jaguar is a ryzen sans l3?

no idea, probably GloFo is at full capacity for Polaris, vega and Ryzen. But nice point, it's a bit weird, indeed; especially because tsmc themselves are kinda refusing customers or putting them on the bottom of the line.

>>59769052
>one could say that this new jaguar is a ryzen sans l3?
No you fucking retard. Jaguar is a completely different, low-power optimized architecture than Zen. This is just Jaguar+.

>>59768984
you are forgetting the command processor that reduces cpu bottleneck. and they showed forza and gpu stands at 66% utilization. I really think this will deliver.

Emulating this will be near impossible due the integrated southbridge, performance is a non-factor

>>59768948
>>59768948
>seems.
no they straight out spelled it out. The thing is, that the 2 core complexes raised my eyebrows. That's why I said that maybe it isn't a Ryzen per se due to a technicality, no L3. Well, makes sense, since the entire raison d'etre for the infinity fabric was to allow simplified and varied customized soc's, they just kept the code name for sentimentalism, but one could still argue that it's more of a ryzen than it's an old improved jaguar.

>>59769052
>no idea
see >>59768985

>>59769117
You retard, "old" jaguar in Xbone, PS4 and PS4 pro is still two clusters of 4 cores.
It didn't start with Zen, even POWER9 has a similar design

>>59769117
>they just kept the code name for sentimentalism
Or because the core architecture is literally the exact same as Jaguar from older iterations, you fucking moron

>>59767468

>Forza

Just like that other racing game Sony shilled the PS4 with, they choose racing games to sell their consoles because they can be graphically potato tier but you can't notice because motion blur while speeding at 160mph covers it all up.

>>59769038
>>59769105
Never believe marketing hype before a console release. Remember all the PS3 shills? How it would run games at 1080p/60? And PS4 shills, how Tim Sweeney said it would outclass gaming PC's for three years? And PS4 Pro shills? People on /v/ started spamming the PS4 Pro would beat a GTX 980, then it turns out it runs about the same as an Rx 470, like everyone predicted. Fuck console shills, performance is overblown every single release and retards always fall for it.

>>59768877

DOTA

>>59769164
My general rule for console performance is to look at $150-200 GPUs of the era and how they perform with the shittiest CPU of its time. It's possible to do 4K on an RX 480, but not without sacrifices.

>>59768310
I'm surprised at how stupid this is
Did you even think before you typed this?

>>59769187
hey, I need to get to bed, but I look forward to checking out the all the replies to your post of all the people pointing out that you're the retard here when I get up.

>>59769086
>completely different
>jaguar+
so, 2 cpu ccx's without l3, making space for 40 CU's all interlinked by infinity fabric.
it's not completely different fucktard, they just kept the naming scheme.

>>59769232
Reading comprehension, you fucking illiterate nigger. I said that Jaguar is completely different from Zen.

>>59769232
First of all, Zen 8 cores + 40CUs (especially on TSMC's worse density) can't even fit in that even without L3.

>>59769232
>making space
The die is like 6 times larger than Ryzen. lmao
the 2 groups of cores at are two corners of the GPU etching.

The PS4 and Xbone had this shit before Ryzen came out. The fucking AGUs and FPUs and schedulers and all that shit are fucking Jaguar and nothing to do with Zen. Zen is like a Phenom IV.

I said this shit in my original post that you replied to but you didn't fucking read it. You just keep assuming that Zen is the only thing in the world that can split groups of cores up.

>>59767181
it's Vega

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>>59769232
There is NO CCX or infinity fabric in Jaguar design. It's the same Jaguar module architecture used in the old Xbox One.

>>59769281
just read the thread you idiot.

>>59769297
and without sram which allocates fuck ton of space.

>>59768072
will this be $700 like the ps3 launch?

>>59768992
>>59768973
>>59768209
>>59768181

its polaris. an underclocked 470

>>59767271
>playing quake rehash instead of just the original
hell, i still play ut2004

>>59768287
No wonder kek.

>>59768287
Nice aliasing on the cars tho. Quality saws.

>>59767236
>jack clocks up
>call it evolved

>>59771821
>470
it's has 4 extra CUs compared to a 480.

>>59769150
Gran Turismo
Sony has used Gran Turismo historically to showcase the graphic prowess of their consoles since the team behind it had some of the best PlayStation devs, Gran Turismo 1 and 2 are some of the best looking games on the PS1, the same applies to GT3 and GT4
GT5 had the same purpose but kind of failed, since it wasn't available on launch and was unfinished when launched
MS did the same with Forza, more or less, the series has always used the Xbox hardware as much as possible
They aren't potato-tier, I guess you have no idea about what you're talking about

>>59768353
Probably includes the gpu as it's an apu

>>59773736
he talks about ps4 pro. and he is wrong.
>For starters, take the GPU. General expectations around the Internet (including our own) have predicted a single unified Polaris-class GPU with 36 CUs. According to Cerny, that’s not what Sony built. Instead of a unified GPU core, Sony plunked a second GPU down right beside the first.
https://www.extremetech.com/gaming/238261-the-ps4-pros-chief-architect-shares-surprising-details-on-the-systems-architecture

>>59767250
>implying the amount of compute units mean anything
>implying CPU calculation power is only measured by GHz
Sure kid

>>59769182
This is a different beast, in a sense. Microsoft has gone back to the time where consoles had a vast majority of customized and tailored hardware to get ridiculous performance from specs you wouldnt think are capable of doing.

Just read what they have to say. Circuit trace level analysis to find hardware flaws/bottlenecks. Custom block IPs for offloading. A graphics unit which is, while essentailly the same family, a version you will never find on shelves.
As surpsied as I am to say it, the scorpio design is very interesting looking at the last three gens of consoles.

>>59774258
But it's not interesting because this shit will be impossible to emulate, as if the integrated southbridge wasn't bad enough, now a custom scheduler that acts as an ASIC

>>59771989
but ut2004 is literally a rehash of ut2003, which is shit compared to sequel to ut99

>>59774296
UT24k is better than 99 in every single way.

>>59774293

>Waaah! I wanna pirate games, Mommy!

>>59774496
Good luck playing games down the road went MS kills support senpai, and consoles die due to caps and other issues
FACT: Xbox Ninja Gaiden hasn't been emulated yet, and the only way to play it is to get a OG Xbox that still works
FACT: SMD caps are basically impossible to replace
FACT: Probably there's no games worth playing in the current generation so nothing of value will be lost

>>59774839
I don't know about Ninja Gaiden but I can play Ninja Gaiden Black on my 360.

>>59774293
Almost 20 years on and its impossible for low end CPUs to emulate PS2 games at any real playability.

Nobody cares about your opinion.

>>59767468
They custom designed the new jaguar CPU's to do some of the more complex dx12 instructions really quickly.

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My gtx 1080 has a hard time runnning games at 4K.

How is a underclocked rx470 gonna be able to handle 4k 60fps?

>>59774293
It's fine because the xbone has like 2 exclusives.
There isn't even a need to emulate it.

>>59776454
It's an underclocked 480 with more compute units and presumably it won't be running PC ultra settings.
It wont be able to run everything at 4k60 for sure though.
things like forza which were already 1080p60 on the original bone are an easy jump but anything running at 30fps will have a hard time doubling that with the CPU hand they've been dealt and anything running under 900p wont be able to make it to 2160p unless it's one of those dynamic resolution deals and you stare at a wall.

>mfw all these retards are trying to compare it to PC hardware

Did you idiots forget a small but very important detail?

>Most commonly used DX12 functions are hardcoded into the silicon.

There's nothing in the PC space like this.

>>59778502
Anything that requires developers to not be lazy might as well have a "Only going to be used in like 2 games" label attached to it at this point.
Unless microsoft is planning on doing the optimisation themselves it's not going to make much of a difference in the end for 99% of games.

>>59774839
But Ninja Gaiden works fine on my 360. Also every xbone exclusive is getting a pc port.

>>59778670
What part of "Most commonly used DX12 functions are hardcoded into the silicon" did you not understand?

The "most commonly used" part?
The "hardcoded into the silicon" part?

I don't plan on buying scorpio because --> Jaguar but I still think its a pretty cool development.

>>59767181
>Xbox Scorpio is using Polaris but with 40 CUs and fabbed at 16nm TSMC, instead of Glofo.
>Which is weird because Polaris was never fabbed at Glofo, and Polaris 10(the biggest die) tops out at 36CU.

it's not poolaris. it's just a scaled up version of the gcn 1.0 gpu that was in the original xbone and ps4 chips.

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>>59767236
>all this hoopla over an overclocked Jaguar with improved iGPU

>>59767272
>Can't port to PC

Xbox is essentially a PC running a customized closed down version of Windows, I always wondered how they keep fucking that up.

>$on¥ and MS have glued two of these https://www.amazon.com/AMD-Athlon-5370-APU-AD5370JAHMBOX/dp/B01BIWN2TY together and called it a day on the CPU department
>Somehow this is more powerful than gaming PC's
Wew.

>>59767181
It Hawaii GPU, 44CU but 4CU disabled.
But not just "old" Hawaii, its improved with more Command Processors, Delta Compression and other minor teaks like more L2.
Not as advanced as Ellsmere on PS4Pro but more brute force.

>>59781631
>But not just "old" Hawaii, its improved with more Command Processors, Delta Compression and other minor teaks like more L2.
So it's Tonga?

It's nothing, AMD has the ability to use IP from different products, so Vega shaders(which PS4 pro uses) UVD from Polaris, mem controller from Hawaii, etc etc.
All of this is possible.