There is no such thing, nor can there be any such thing, as conscious

>>59506349
>The mind exists; this is self-evident.
Is it?

>>59506349
Doesn't matter.

We will just grow human brains from aborted fetuses and use them as an AI network.

>>59506349
okay so you're a young male who enjoys marijuana

unfortunately i know exactly this personality type very well -- you'll develop schizophrenia within five years and end life homeless

>>59506349
>ideas aren't material

brain scans would like to have a word with you

i know you thought this was deep but it's seriously self-indulgent. get a job

>>59506349
it is not self evident that the mind exists, furthermore, the mind is not inmaterial, god I hate how pathetic emergentists are, no retard conciousness is not only an unique human trait, its objetively observable in other animal clades to an extent, also no retard you dont need "matter" for concniousness on a deterministic universe, you just need the transmission of information, self awareness is an illusion, or an epiphenomena, or not purely human.

>>59506349
also your own logic is all fucked up

>The mind exists
>The mind can't be produced by matter alone
>The mind isn't emergent (???)
>Matter cannot produce consciousness (what, is a dog not conscious, is it not made of fucking carbon)
>Computers can't produce immaterial things (this is actually all computers do)

you're either developing schizophrenia or you really don't know how basic logic works anymore, anon. get help

>>59506377
still wont die in a fire, unlike mr pedophile over there

>>59506446
not op but no dogs are not concious, only confirmed concious animals are great apes, dolphins, orcas, elephants and a type of crow called the eurasian magpie (probably the most likely inheritor of human civilization based on both current smarts and potential)

>>59506474
OK but you're 14 so I'm not really going to give a lot of weight to your thoughts on 'are dogs conscious' because they're pretty dumb.

>>59506349
Is this a copypasta or you the same guy who posted this on /pol/ a few days back?

>>59506349
> The brain and the mind exist and are the perfect example of intelligence realization
> The brain is made of matter
> An artificial brain with AI is possible
The fact is that a true AI is entirely possible ("possible" being the keyword here) but is simply difficult if not impossible to create through mathematical properties and theories. In my opinion there is no way to abstract in a generalized way the way the brain works. The complexity lies in the inherent structure of the brain which is "just" a neural net so complex, with so many connections, that right now is impossible to map 1:1. As always, we, as humans, are able to manage complexity by dividing; that's why the theories about different specialized brain parts are emerged. But while these discoveries are marvelous, they are still far from the bare metal mechanics of how it works. Imagine this: someone gives you a baesyan network to analyze. Easy right? everything is labeled, every connection is rational and based on causality/correlation, so it's fairly simple to understand what the network is able to do. Now, someone else gives you a deep neural network. Are you able to understand what it does based on its topology?

>>59506487
i am 23 and have a degree on ethology tho, dogs are NOT concious, read what i wrote retard, I am literally saying they are not but other animals are.

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>>59506511
>>59506446
>>59506398
>>59506365

It don't matter, none of this shit matters.


You'd be better off writing a post about why you want to reply to OP even though its pointless.


All of this is shit, it's all so tiresome.


I guess this is what limbo must feel like, wasting an eternity in futile mental mastubation sessions. God, I just want it to end already.


It's all shit.

>>59506537
Nice bait, now GTFO, we don't care about you anon

>>59506537
Why am I even browsing here? Dear god, what is wrong with me, wasting my time on nothing.

Everything feels so purposeless, no reason.

Are any of these other posters real or are the all bots, I can't tell anymore.


This is emptiness, this is desolation. Just a waste of time, but this is also just a phase.


almost 3am, and I'm still here. Clicking, scrolling, refreshing.


How do people even like these stupid phone generals? Who even makes them?


How useless. Why even bother typing this out.


I'm so glued to this lifestyle of shit but I don't do anything to change it. Is it a dopamine thing?


I kind of want to try heroin

>>59506529
>i am 23 and have a degree on ethology tho, dogs are NOT concious
You either don't have a degree in ethology or you haven't been keeping up with the research which is unusual given that this research probably would have been done before you would have finished your very impressive factory style three year degree.

>>59506601
I don't understand why you would ever want to reply to such a fallacious post like that.

There is no benefit from replying to such a shitty post. He didn't even spell conscious right.

>>59506601
i hope you are not talking about that study where dogs "recognized" the smell of their own shit, if thats the case you are pretty fucking pathetic.

The thing i do the most is researching bro, the only reason why I spend so much time on this shitty ass board and have to endure pathetic displays of retardation like consumer hysteria or this kind of thread, is because i am learning to program neuralgic models so i can make simulate diverse neurological infraestructures (like dorsal ventricular bridge or nidophalum or neocortex variants or decentralized neural models) to finally conclude if conciousness is indeed an evolutionary trend and not emergentist, what the fuck are you doing with your life?

>>59506629
Main language is NOT english, if the only thing you can criticize is my grammar despite almost absolute chance of you not speaking anything but english then i surely must contemplate if replying to your post was even worth it

>>59506643
>>59506601

Now look at these two specimen partaking in some sort of discourse about absolutely nothing. This is the epitome of mental masturbation.

>>59506643
what the fuck are you doing with your life?


This may be the only thing worth thinking up a response for, the rest of his diatribe is garbage.


Useless talk, like shitty techno house music building up to a "good" part.

>>59506643
>Look, I use big words to seem more photosynthesis
>Can you do the clever, huh?
Alright anon. You got me. 5/10 troll, made me reply.
>>59506629
He also hasn't found the shift key or the full stop.

>>59506349
AI doesn't have to achieve a human level of consciousness or be 100% deterministic in order to bypass humanity.

>>59506682
baby's first existentialist crisis, hit me up when you are 15, also low the volume on your Tool, i can hear it from here

>>59506682
>>59506643
Wait, there are two teenagers who have found a thesaurus? Gods help us all, they may end up trying to out photosynthesis each other.

>>59506672
Now this here is what I call an angerpost.


Essentially what his useless text boils down to is something like this "NO FUCK YOU, STUPID SHIT, ME SMART, U INFERIOR"


I'm sure that the brain chemistry of this poster would give plenty of data to how the human reward system functions when people are messaging.


Something of interest to look into, but utterly futile.

>>59506687
>actual nomenclature scares me so i must attempt to reduce the level of intellectualism in the discourse to where i feel confident
Dunin-Kruger if ive ever seen one

>>59506682
>>59506702
Another, example of angerposts.


I wonder what boggles these posters, perhaps they just finished up masturbating and endlessly browsing a linux vs win vs mac thread or a phone general.


You can tell by their posts that they have problems in real life or some source of stress that they are not bothering to attend to; therefore; having to do an angerpost.

>>59506716
you probably think your little stream of conciousness vignete is taking you somewhere, to a sudden metanoia, the irony here is that you are the only one lost in the search for absolutes

>>59506721
>Dunin-Kruger
Photosynthesis! I'm more photosynthesiser than you are, look, my words even have the floating comma thing between the eye and the em!

>>59506756

You misunderstand. I said there is emptiness and desolation, that it is like limbo. Therefore; the only use of this stream would be to pass the time and entertain.


So far its kept me amused.

I have to say, I love the angerposts.


They all essentially try to say this "lol u dumb, wut this ur first time philosophies, lol u stupid, me smart, haha"


Nothing constructive, a useless post.

>>59506762
meh, made me reply
keep on with the antintellectualism, dont worry i am sure you know a lot about how to rice your arch desktop, meanwhile let an actual scientist the debate on the emergentist or materialist origin of conciousness and the beauty of being analogical computers nontheless, to each their own.

>>59506778
nah i am unironically being honest, i did this sort of stuff a lot back when i was (probably) your age, you might pretend its for the sole purpose of entertainment but there is an inherent element of masochism in what you are doing, you are smart enough to come up with philosophical precepts but you lack knowledge and rationality to fill those voids, you will encounter it eventually, i know I did, just stop being cringey, you remind me too much of myself

>>59506779
>let an actual scientist the debate on the emergentist or materialist origin of conciousness and the beauty of being analogical computers nontheless
You're using the wrong words in the wrong places, grossly misspelling others and you think others are anti intellectual? This shit is hilarious. Please keep going, you're almost as funny as the teenage angst anon above you.

>>59506349
Who cares, a conscious AI is just something to aim for, getting a not-conscious retarded sub-90 IQ AI is enough to control menial jobs allowing humanity to fuck around with more productive stuff.

>>59506778
And that shall be the end of my posts.

What have I learned?

I am my best source of entertainment. The majority of people are a nuisance and are probably barely conscious, going off of neuro reward system responses.


As we've seen with a few examples of anger posters.

>>59506756
>>59506713
>>59506702

The examples of the be littlers, one could only wonder why they would post such garbage if not to satiate their delusions of grandeur.


As for the other posters, they're motivations were of seeming intellectual and well versed in science, in their useless discussion of dogs being conscious.

>>59506815
I'm not that young and this isn't my first time. I was just feeling like I was in limbo and I also couldn't fall asleep, it was somewhat therapeutic.


Doesn't matter if it's cringey, it was only to serve me.

Now i'm no longer tired or bothered.

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>>59506822
this is my last reply to you anon, bye and if you are really interested enough on the subject i recommend you to actually read studies other than shitty sci-pop like that retarded dog self-recognition """""study""""", get an academia.edu account or suscribe to actual journals something

This is a pic of me and my little lady friend, it makes me happy to look at it so i am sharing it with you, bye

>>59506870
You look like kuftic

>>59506398
>brain scans would like to have a word with you
Take a statistics class, m8.

>>59506349
Prove me that you're not a biological robot programmed to act as human being.
Prove that you're conscious.

I can't be bothered replying to this autism. Sage. REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

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>>59506349

>>59506349
>There is no such thing, nor can there be any such thing, as conscious AI
Good. We don't need it. We just need a sort of a slave machine with lots of memory and some rules that allows it to retrieve memory fast.

>>59507433
Of course we need them. How else could a blowjob from a sexbot have meaning?

>>59506349
Going by your pseudo-science, if a BRAIN can resolve to a conscious mind, literally creating an immaterial CONNECTION, so can computers.

There's no creation of immaterial entities here, just a connection like brains allow.

Checkmate, OP.

>>59506349

That's a false dichotomy!

I'm an atheist and I also think there will never be such a thing like a consious AI. People often confuse programms that immitate human behaviour with actual behaviour.

But your reasoing is very strange. You put up claims without giving explanations and I don't like this.

Emergence is a property of complexity. Like you have two things with simple behavious, but if you put them together, that behaviour doesn't add up, but creates a "deterministic chaos", so to say. The double pendulum is a good example here, two simple parts make something highly complex and unpredictable (beyond a very limited scope of time).

>there is no such thing as mind-independent, objective information. Only the mind gives these things meaning.

No, EVERYTHING is information. The mind can collect this information and give an (subjective) interpretation though.


>no computation even has any meaning

Again, everything is information and since everything is constantly moving in time, everything is computation. You could also say: time = movement = computation.


>Sorry, atheists, but you are not gods, and your wishful fantasies won't save you.

It has already been shown that life can come from "nothing":

>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miller%E2%80%93Urey_experiment

Of course it's not really "nothing", it's just a transformation. But it's not liek me need a magical creatro or something.


The problem is more that those things are so complex and deep that we will probably never understand them. All we can hope for is a glimpse of the truth.

But the brain is a computer, OP.

>>59506349
>2017
>still thinking the chinese room is not bullshit

>>59506836
There is only one question to ask. If a dog isn't conscious... can they consent?

This has probably been said already ITT but the mind does not physically exist. It's just an idea; our way of interpreting what the brain does. The mind exists in the same realm as mathematics. Would you say mathematics physically exists?

>>59506589
Go outside you helpless idiot

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>>59506452
There is literally nothing wrong with pedosexuality

>>59509327


Except for the part were children are molested.

>>59506746
Would you consider yourself to be a supreme gentleman?

Some top tier faggotry ITT.

>>59506349
>Hur dur consciousness can't arise from matter
You've got nothing to back up your stupid belief.
0/10 troll.

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>>59509162
>I'm an atheist and I also think there will never be such a thing like a consious AI

Congrats on being an idiot. If human minds are material, which means without any supernatural influence (they are), then they can be replicated by material means.

People who think this is impossible are stupid. There's going to come a point where someone builds some kind of biological brain that replicates nature's own chemical and electrical processing. Congratulations, you have created consciousness.

I don't know why people (idiots) can't comprehend that human existence isn't something that's special or unique. I think it's their desire to attach purpose to life and pretend like they have value because a cynical and nihilistic worldview manifests if someone is to understand the reality of worthlessness.

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>>59509342
Prove that children who engage in sexual acts are inherently negatively affected.

Children have been in relationships for most of humankind's existence. Muhammad married a 6 year old. Mary was 12 when she birthed Jesus. Adults were marrying 12 year olds in the early 20th century and living out their lives together happily.

But now all these psychologists take children from abusive homes, tell them that they've been RAPED, ABUSED, MISTREATED, BETRAYED and then conclude that touching a penis gave them PTSD. Maybe it's society that fucks them up?

It's anti-scientific bullshit. Men are attracted to young girls. Get over it.

>>59506349
>philosophical bullshit

Philosophy, the ultimate meme.

>>59509490
>"Philosophy is such a fucking meme, holy shit."

- Aristotle ca. 330 BC

>>59509451

>children who are sexually abused are not inherently negatively affected.

Pedos actually believe this...

>Men are attracted to young girls.

Yeah, men are attracted to sexually mature young women. That doesn't justify your urge to molest babies, pedo.

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>>59509501
>If I call everything I don't like abuse then it's bad because abuse is bad!
Oh, roastie, that's not how this works.

And men are attracted to sexual characteristics, only SOME of which come during puberty.

Keep worshipping Amy Schumer though.

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>>59509598
TRIGGER WARNING

!!ABUSED CHILD IN IMAGE - OBVIOUSLY SUFFERING FROM INTENSE MENTAL DISORDERS DUE TO ABUSE!!

TRIGGER WARNING

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>>59509618
TRIGGER WARNING

MONOGAMOUS, CISGENDERED, HETEROSEXUAL, COUPLE

TRIGGER WARNING

>>59509598
>>59509618
>>59509627
>Puberty
>Age 9
Your mother must feel like blowing her brains out everyday for raising a sick fuck like you

>>59509598

You can justify all you want but there are laws which come from community standards to protect the vulnerable (children in this case).

Sexually assaulting minors is ILLEGAL (I'm a bit worried I have to spell this out for you) and doing this will get you into jail. Not only that, because everyone thinks child molesting is objectionable your prison life will be hell.

Back on topic, anons

>>59506537
look


i add spaces


to be edgy

Why do you fall for some shitty bait from some /pol/ crossposter?

Just hide and report

>>59506373
You my friend found the right way to face problems.

>>59510993
it's not to be edgy angry brainlet; it is to be more readable.


people prefer small verses over long paragraphs

OP might be slightly schizophrenic.
Source: I work with mentally ill people.

>>59506349
You're

>>59506349
What you call conscious thought is really nothing special. Just a mechanism through which we can audit and alter the logic (our brain's programming) to override instincts. It's just a psuedo-random process through which we learn how to obtain positive results via the feedback received (ie. pleasure and suffering).

Get over yourself OP. You (and your thoughts) are nothing special.

>>59510956
ok

I personally don't think that the 'upcoming AI revolution' is anywhere close to producing conscious machines

however I recently realized a possible future scenario. General AI is supposedly good at getting big data as input and looking at it and generating an output.

What happens in nearby future if we feed AI lots of scans of brains and tell it to create a working conscious mind?

What would a near future look like where we aren't capable of explaining what consciousness in human brains is or how it works, but AI can generate real conscious minds? So far I'm under the opinion that obviously people would crawl out of the woodwork to claim that theyre not conscious, simply passing the turing test. But thats not important. I'm more interested in how our world would change.