[Boards: 3 / a / aco / adv / an / asp / b / bant / biz / c / can / cgl / ck / cm / co / cock / d / diy / e / fa / fap / fit / fitlit / g / gd / gif / h / hc / his / hm / hr / i / ic / int / jp / k / lgbt / lit / m / mlp / mlpol / mo / mtv / mu / n / news / o / out / outsoc / p / po / pol / qa / qst / r / r9k / s / s4s / sci / soc / sp / spa / t / tg / toy / trash / trv / tv / u / v / vg / vint / vip / vp / vr / w / wg / wsg / wsr / x / y ] [Search | Free Show | Home]

>open source >royalty free >better than hdmi, dvi, vga

This is a blue board which means that it's for everybody (Safe For Work content only). If you see any adult content, please report it.

Thread replies: 157
Thread images: 13

File: Display-Port-seitlich.jpg (292KB, 1920x1280px) Image search: [Google]
Display-Port-seitlich.jpg
292KB, 1920x1280px
>open source
>royalty free
>better than hdmi, dvi, vga
>quality sound and video

What went wrong?
>>
>>59493646
Nothing? Most new PCs/GPUs you buy today have mostly DP and maybe 1 HDMI/DVI/VGA connector
>>
>>59493646
It doesnt have copyright protection so it wasnt endorsed by the big media corps.
>>
>>59493681
It's always the sociopaths. Always.
>>
CIA
>>
>>59493745
>>
>>59493646
How is it better than HDMI? Genuinely curious
>>
>>59493646
That clippy thing can be annoying, if someone tugs on the cable too hard the whole thing can be ripped apart.
>>
>>59493791
Something about more picture datas per time unit running through the cable
>>
>>59493791
No built in DRM, higher resolution support on earlier revisions, and really novel features like daisy chain support for large arrays of monitors.
>>
>>59493791
something about supporting higher resolutions more fps but i think newer HDMI revisions compete
>>
>>59493655
Useless if most monitors don't
>>
>>59493863
100 dollar monitors don't need the features DP has... why would they include a port that 90% of commonplace users will ignore?
>>
>>59493646
Nothing. It's a good standard.

>>59493863
Most monitors with respect for themselves do. Don't buy a shitty cheapass 100 dollar Acer monitor where you're paying 90% of the monitor's price for HDMI royalties and you're good.
>>
>>59493646
>dual monitors
>turn off monitors
>rearranges desktop symbols
>it's a DP feature :^)

>try to boot into bios
>display stays black
>apparently DP has a problem displaying low resolutions :^)

Epic
>>
>>59493960

>apparently DP has a problem displaying low resolutions :^)

Nah, that's just a shitty mobo. Gigabyte by any chance?
>>
>>59494000
MSI
>>
>>59493646

>cables can't be longer than 6 feet
>faggot hinge that makes it hard to detach from monitor when the clip button thingy is against the monitor's back

Yeah im gonna stick with HDMI
>>
>unplug DP cable
>plug DP cable back in
>all desktop icons are in random places

who even orchestrated this shit. Life with DVI was much simpler
>>
>>59494021

You do that : ^ )
>>
>>59493646

daily reminder that DisplayPort has cable versions, do you use DP 1.4 on your graphic card? You need a DP 1.4 cable

HDMI is just a cable, you can use a 5 year old cable with HDMI 2.0 if you want, no problem.

DisplayPort is money grabbing greedy DLC addon exploitation
>>
>>59494022
>>59493960

Stop describing Windows features. DP has nothing to do with this.

Install a DE that respects your preferences or stop whining.
>>
>>59493889
Then 90% of people probably don't need those features in the first place
>>
>>59494052
>Stop describing Windows features. DP has nothing to do with this.
I don't have this problem with HDMI
>>
>>59494022
this is a Windows feature and has nothing to do with DisplayPort.

2/10 for making me respond.
>>
>>59494040
>you can use 5 year old cable with HDMI 2.0 if you want, no problem.

eeeeeerrrrrrrr your mileage will hugely vary.
>>
>>59494063

That statement has no information.
>>
>>59493863
All modern Dell monitors have at leart two DP inputs.
>>
>>59494109
Dell monitors are crap!
>>
>>59494120

Oh no!
>>
>>59494052
>>59494065
It's actually the fault of the monitor. Dell monitors are known for this.
>>
>>59494132

> Monitors re-arrange desktop icons

/g/ in 2017 everybody. . .
>>
>>59493863
>most monitors don't

[citation needed]
>>
>>59494252
See >>59493937

Anyway, it seems like some cards have DP and some monitors have DP so what's the problem? Did anything actually went wrong?
>>
>>59493646
DP is the new de facto standard

>>59493681
HDCP is a terrible approach to copy protection and a colossal failure all around. shouldn't take long before even the old white men of Hollywood figure this out.

>>59493814
Daisy chain is particularly great. even allows you to partition a single display into multiple devices.
>>
>>59494056
90% of users would be fine with RCA input. HDMI literally only sells because it has HD in the name.
>>
File: IMG_2067.jpg (73KB, 500x349px) Image search: [Google]
IMG_2067.jpg
73KB, 500x349px
>>59494022
>Life with DVI was much simpler
I'm still living that Win 7 on sandy bridge over DVI life
>>
sony
>>
>>59493791
The Display Port signal is also pretty cheap and easy to convert to other signals so converters are really cheap.
>>
>>59494295
Yeah, a friend build a 3x3 1080p monitor with just a few DP and they response equally without problems and is nice to see at.
>>
>>59494330
90% of users fell for the HD meme. And the DP fags seem to be the ones who fell the hardest
>>
It is out there and is being used. Everything went right
>>
>>59494410
>And the DP fags seem to be the ones who fell the hardest

What are you even trying to say?
>>
>>59494436
Muh quality
>>
>>59493646
>OP's post
>retarded content
>doesn't know what he's talking about
>assumes things

What went wrong?
>>
i still use dual DVI with a 970 and a kabylake i7 because im a piece of shit with piece of shit monitors and a lack of hdmi cables

actually would hdmi be beneficial over DVI? i have no clue but id be willing to switch my main 1080p monitor to hdmi if it is
>>
>>59494362
>easy to convert to other signals so converters are really cheap
Even to HDMI?
Because a DP to HDMI adapter cost 20$.
>>
>>59494509
>Even to HDMI?
Yes, webshops just like to take a high margin on cables and accessoires.

I use this one: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/converter/32449119805.html
>>
>>59494628
Does this allow multiple monitors?
>>
>>59494649
I don't think so but I've never had more than one cable plugged in at once.
>>
>max length 3m
>>
>>59494021
Release button on the wrong side is a monitor manufacturer fuckup, not a problem with DP, dipshit.
>>
Hello there! You seem to have used the term "open source".
The term "open source" was created by a group of people that did not want to be associated with the free software movement. When I say "free" software (which is one of the alternatives preferable to "open source"). It's not about price; in that case I would say "gratis", or "free as in free beer". It's about "freedom"! This is what the free software movement is fighting for.
So what is "free" software? Free software is any software that guarantees the user the four essential software freedoms:
> 0. Run the program as you wish.
> 1. Study the source code and change it so it does what you wish.
> 2. Redistribute exact copies of the program.
> 3. Distribute your modified version of the program.
Some people decided that they wanted to restrict the user; but being able to study and modify the "open source" code is not enough! This is directly hurting the cause of the free software movement because it takes away the sociological "freedom" aspect of free software and turns it into a technological one.
So for those reasons I ask that in the future you use the terms "free", "free/libre" or, if necessary "FLOSS" (short for "free/libre and open source"), though the latter should still be avoided.
>>
>>59493646

Nothing went wrong, i'm using it right now
>>
HDMI has HD in the name.
DisplayPort is abbreviated as DP. Go figure.
>>
>>59494330
Because 5 connectors are so much simpler than a single connector, right?
>>
>>59493646

The fact it rearranges my desktop if I turn one off.
>>
It's sad that there are almost no tvs with dp, just like any tv doesn't have gb ethernet port in 2017.
Guessing it's the lack of built-in drm that scare off big companies to include this option.
>>
File: hd-sdi.jpg (84KB, 1000x552px) Image search: [Google]
hd-sdi.jpg
84KB, 1000x552px
>a challenger appears

currently supports 12gb/s (soon to be 24gb/s)
cable runs upto 100m
8-ch uncompressed audio
completely drm/hdcp-free
royalty-free
locking connector
one fucking wire
>>
>>59494132
I use two 1440p dells chained with multi stream transport over displayport on windows 7 and never had any issue like that
>>
>>59494837
That's your window manager, not the DisplayPort.

>>59494840
>lack of built-in drm
Yup. Wouldn't want people to shill you out of shekels by, say, recording screen output while watching movies they paid for.

>>59494851
Nice, but the connector looks pretty bulky which is a turn-off for normies.
>>
>>59494869
it's the same size as a standard antenna plug, but if that ain't to your liking there's a micro version which is smaller than a wifi antenna connector.
also it's 16ch audio, not 8
>>
>>59494824
Color-coded and don't require flipping, so easier
>>
File: IMG_3331.jpg (38KB, 368x300px) Image search: [Google]
IMG_3331.jpg
38KB, 368x300px
>>59494336
im with vga.
because it just works
>>
>>59494949
Oh right standard coax, for some reason I thought that was like 5 pin MIDI connector sized. Looks like it'll be more expensive to manufacture in bulk though, compared to "flat" connectors.
>>
>>59493646
Open standard so 90% of them will be super chinkshit and cause issues unless you shell out for a VESA certified one
>>
>>59494851
SDI makes me wet. I don't understand why it never caught on.

Besides it being a pain to unfasten.
>>
>>59494965
sure it takes some machining to make the plugs/sockets, but they exist in bulk lots for cheap and the cable is any half-decent 75ohm coax you care to use
>>
>>59494295
>old white men of Hollywood

""""white"""
>>
>>59494983
it never caught on because they can't licence it/enforce drm.
it's ubiquitous in the broadcast/cinema industry, where hdmi stands for "hardly dependent, mostly intermittent"
>>
>>59494990
Still more expensive than TP. I'm not sure how much more annoying soldering (or crimping) coax connectors is compared to flat ones but I'd imagine it requires slightly more complex machinery, increasing production cost and chance of errors.
>>
>>59495021
you need wire strippers and a crimping tool.
i work with a guy who's fulltime job is building sdi/land cables and patching racks.
takes him about 10 seconds to crimp a bnc connector.
you're 20 times more likely to fuck up a DP/hdmi cable than an sdi cable
>>
>>59495060
You do realize that crimping that shit by hand is much more expensive, error-prone and slower than automating the task, right?
>>
>>59493681
... Why does a fucking cable need copy protection?
>>
>hdmi
>any cable will work for most applications and you will wind up with far more than you know what to do with just off of bundle-ins
>dp
>cables are of insanely varying quality and even if you have a dp monitor the cable that came with it will be one of the cheap shit tier ones and you will have to buy a cable 3x the price of an HDMI one to not get screwed by non-compliant manufacturers
>even manufacturers you think you could probably trust aren't safe because they'll do shit like make cables that carry power for absolutely no reason which can fuck your parts
>random shit like >>59493960 and >>59494022 will happen if either your cable or your hardware itself don't comply with everything, which companies don't care about unlike hdmi
>>
>>59493814
No built in DRM means DP will never be used for a TV and the objectively inferior connection will remain standard
How is this a good thing?
>>
>>59494018
Kek
>>
>>59493791
The connector are rated for more than a few inseetions
>>
>>59494153
Resolutions change = windows panic = icon panic
>>
File: hdmi_audioquest.png (29KB, 981x216px) Image search: [Google]
hdmi_audioquest.png
29KB, 981x216px
>>
>>59493646
>Created at the time first 4k monitors came out. >Cant support 4k 60hz let alone 144hz. no vision about the future Obsolete on the drawing board, open source freetards being open source freetards as always.
>DVI on the other hand can push 1600p at the time it was created 1200p was the max resolution of any monitor.

DP problem is that it tried to be HDMI and PC monitor interface at the same time failing at both fields. At the time it was launched it was already obsolete. Right now it does nothing more than HDMI 2.0 the standard it have to change. If you create video standard TODAY it have to push 12k at 60hz and 8k at 144hz just to be relevant in the next 10 years.
>>
>brand new TV
>supports SCART
>doesn't support DisplayPort
why is this fucking allowed again?
>>
>>59493646
Shitty plug.
>>
>>59494068
My 1.3 cable works with hdmi 2.0. It costed ~22$, the cheapo ones probably can't do it.
>>
>>59493889
Literary my 120 dollar monitor has DisplayPort
>>
>>59493646
>What went wrong?
Something went wrong? Do you live in Nigeria or something?

Last four generations of graphics cards and 3 different monitors I have bought over the last years all had DP.
>>
File: 1489008117602.png (597KB, 800x800px) Image search: [Google]
1489008117602.png
597KB, 800x800px
>>59497798
>Shitty plug.

Literally the only problem with DP. Actually, I don't like how thick the cables are - I have an HDMI cable that's about as thick as a 3.5mm audio cable. Flexible, small, super easy to route, easy to hide. My DP cable feels more like a coax cable tv cable; tough and hard to flex.

Cable aside, it's objectively superior to HDMI. Higher resolution, free-sync, actually supports 144Hz.
>>
>>59493646
>le ebin "displayport is royalty-free" meme
because OP has been living under a rock for the last 5 years:
http://www.mpegla.com/main/programs/DisplayPort/Pages/Licensors.aspx
>>
>>59494963
Protput.
>>
File: 1473709237266.jpg (2MB, 3076x2909px) Image search: [Google]
1473709237266.jpg
2MB, 3076x2909px
>>59497749

Because SCART is the gold standard stay mad fat lord yank
>>
File: 1457809494592.gif (351KB, 495x495px) Image search: [Google]
1457809494592.gif
351KB, 495x495px
>>59494295
>mfw my chinkshit tv has no HDCP at all but after 10 or so seconds the film works anyway

I guess they somehow got rid off it by Amazon?
>>
HDMI feels to me like RCA and Displayport feels like BNC. They both are capable of transmitting the same signal, but because BNC is used more by people higher than consumers, it feels like BNC feels like it's better,and the locking mechanism feels cool.
>>
>>59495362
literally jews
>>
>>59494482
No benefit whatsoever unless you want to use built in monitor speakers.
>>
>>59493646

Seems like it's catching on to me.

Two years ago I had never even heard of DisplayPort.

Now all the workstations in my office are using DP connected monitors, the GPU in my home PC has 3 DP ports and 1 HDMI.

>>59494040

Absolutely incorrect. Please refer directly to DisplayPorts website.
>>
>>59493646
The DisplayPort on my 2560x1440 144hz monitor causes it to not wake from sleep after my computer hibernates.
My only option is HDMI, but it only outputs at 60hz.
Is there anything I can do? Is HDMI just shittier?
>>
>>59499536
Sounds like your graphics card, not your cable.
>>
>>59499565
or its a bad cable, not the TYPE of cable
could be a bad port on your monitor or vid card too.
>>
>>59499536

What monitor is it?
>>
>>59499617
Dell S2716DGR.
It's one of two monitors I will eventually have for a dual monitor setup. The second monitor (when I get around to ordering it) will be a Dell UltraSharp U2717D.
>>
>>59498975
Can you not use the word literally, I don't want that word to be saturated too.
>>
File: obama-fascism2.jpg (98KB, 287x434px) Image search: [Google]
obama-fascism2.jpg
98KB, 287x434px
What went wrong for the DisplayPort? Depends on your point of view. Nothing went wrong if you are a man of the people. Everything went wrong if you are a authoritarian globalist. The DisplayPort is the cable that is of, by, and for the people. HDMI is the cable that is, by, and for the hegemonic authoritarian corporate globalists.
>>
>>59498893
Dammit my English sucks.
>>
>>59494120
are you high?
>>
>>59499565
Doesn't HDMI have different standards? Like what if it's a 1.0 cable (which, how the fuck can you tell when they ALL LOOK THE FUCKING SAME?), and I just need to get an HDMI 1.3-whatever cable which maybe puts out a 2+K res/144hz signal?

>>59499565
It better not be the graphics card. I have a 980ti now with a 680 GTX before that, and both could not put my Acer monitor's signal to sleep with the HDMI.
>>
>>59499689
For real
>>
>>59499695
mean for one of those to reply to >>59499594
>>
>>59497912
It's happened in 2015 http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20150305006071/en/MPEG-LA-Introduces-License-DisplayPort
Why 5 years?
>>
>>59497091
HDCP can be used in dp (hdcp 2.2 in dp 1.3 and up).
>>
>>59497091
It's the other way round: why is build-in DRM being pushed as a good thing?
>>
>>59493681
Killed the thread. It is a shit solution but those companies would rather sleep sound on a shit protection than no protection at all.
>>
>>59499660
you're literally too late.

literally has literally been saturated to the point where literally now literally means figuratively
>>
>>59499760
it's not. It's pushed as an anti-piracy measure, just like CSS was. No one buys into that shit.
>>
>>59499657

Looked seriously at it, but it's a TN panel and I need the wide angle viewing.
>>
>>59493646
>What went wrong?- 113 posts and 9 image replies shown.

Nothing?

It's on every single GPU, most high end monitors use it, many of the ultra high end have nothing but DP.
>>
>>59494295
Wait, really?
Like using a single monitor to play 4 fullscreen videogames at once?
All driven by one displayport cable and one graphics card?
Sound almost too good.
>>
File: original.jpg (3MB, 2600x1733px) Image search: [Google]
original.jpg
3MB, 2600x1733px
>>59493646

It's successful in computers and work.

It's not successful in consumer and entertainment.
>>
>>59494295
>Daisy chain is particularly great. even allows you to partition a single display into multiple devices.

Excuse me? Explain this, it sounds amazing.
>>
Let's just go right to SDI. Fuck my shit up, industry.
>>
>>59493646
it looks retarded
>>
File: Neckbeard.jpg (9KB, 237x279px) Image search: [Google]
Neckbeard.jpg
9KB, 237x279px
>>59500249
You look retarded

Pic related, it's you
>>
>>59499660

>>59499830
I figure figuratively is next
>>
>>59500279
Why do next beards exist? They look like shit.
>>
>>59493646
the cables are fucking shit and I get that "blinders" issue every so often because both AMD and Nvidia haven't recalibrated their drivers to deal with the TMDS emitters driving the displayport standard
>>
>>59500483
Displayport is lyfe
>>
>>59499900
I plan on pairing it with a Dell UltraSharp U2717D which is identical in style, but is IPS which I will use for more photoshop/general shitposting tasks. The S2716DGR is used for gaming primarily. Plus will be integral when I go Linux+Windows 7 in GPU Passthru come 2020. While it's a TN, I'm honestly surprised at how good it looks (with a little calibration). My Acer was a TN and it didn't bother me that much.
>>
>>59493745
Bane?
>>
>>59500034
What this guy said.
What's better for two monitor setups? Having each monitor plugged into one of the 4 ports in the back of the graphics card or "daisy-chaining"?

How does that even look?
>>
you all endorsed this shit by buying them dumb fuck lcd monitors when they propogadded ur dumb poor asses to buy them. like you really work, fuckign spamming isnt considered work. so live with it.
i got a crt and dont care
>>
>>59500683
t. luddite in his basement
>>
>>59494983
>SDI
4k, 12-bit RGB, 120 hz?
>>
>>59493646

The premise of Display Port is extremely promising but it's let down with the fact that most cheap cables don't work with it. For that reason people still prefer HDMI
>>
>>59494295
>shouldn't take long before even the old white men of Hollywood figure this out.

DVDs still use CSS.
>>
>>59502429
really though? I'm using a $10 2M display port cable from ebay for my 144hz gsync monitor, it's perfectly fine. I don't know how you could go any cheaper.
>>
>>59493646
The open source and royalty free thing is legitimate, but there is absolutely no difference in audio or video quality between it and hdmi. All it is is an electric current, you could wire it up with coat hangers and it will look the same
>>
>>59502857
Then what makes an HDMI 1.0 cable different than a 1.1 or 1.2 or 1.3 cable?
More importantly, how the fuck can you tell the difference?
>>
>>59500034
>>59500627
>>59499961
I would like to know also.
>>
>>59503467
basically nothing other than the potential to support more data flowing through them, which is more or less future proofing because we dont really have a need to send 6gb/s through an hdmi cable at this point in time
>>
>>59502762

Yeah, really

Every time I've bought cheap DP cables the display corrupts, computer fails to boot and other weird stuff

Reason being a lot of the cheaper cables have voltage running on one of the pins that shouldn't be
>>
>>59497820
you realize the cords have nothing to do with it and it's all about the connector?
hdmi 1.4 cord will supply 2.0 speeds if both connections support it.
>>
>>59493863

I work in IT, and all the monitors we purchase (dell and HP) have DP. Including all the HP Business notebooks.
>>
File: DisplayPort_porn_.jpg (140KB, 1500x1500px) Image search: [Google]
DisplayPort_porn_.jpg
140KB, 1500x1500px
>>59493646
>open source
>royalty free
>better than hdmi, dvi, vga
>quality sound and video
>implying something went wrong

Nothing went wrong. My video card has three DisplayPort ports — https://pcpartpicker.com/product/63yxFT/evga-video-card-08gp46183 And my monitor has a DisplayPort for gorgeous 144hz video that neither HDMI nor DVI can provide as they are capped at 60hz — https://pcpartpicker.com/product/rkphP6/asus-monitor-vg248qe And I had to pay a mere $12 for a DisplayPort cable — https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00IU1R29I/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Seems to me that everything has gone right for DisplayPort. Long live DisplayPort.
>>
>>59504635
>DVI
>capped at 60hz
>HDMI
>capped at 60hz
you might need to get updated on that, buddy
Both HDMI and DVI can do 144hz
>>
>>59504700
>HDMI

Do you get paid to help the greedy globalists implement HDCP and DRM?
>>
>>59504738
I don't use HDMI, I use DVI, but thanks for totally ignoring the content of my message to call me a shill instead
>>
>>59493681
>>59493814
>no DRM

umm display port supports both DisplayPort Content Protection and HDCP

oh and displayport can output HDMI

This is what made it actually problematic. Features cost money, the cable costs money, and the plug is a bit large.
MiniDP (Apple) has a horrendous plug and should not be used ... ever
>>
>>59493646
Blu-ray and content companies demand encryption over the wire to magically stop pirates somehow. HDMI has it, display port doesn't. Pirates still pirating just fine anyway.
>>
>>59494509
There are two types of adapters.
Passive and active.

Passive = you have a dual mode DisplayPort output and you just need a different plug and rewiring

Active = You bought some cheat ass shit and now you need to modify the signal into HDMI

guess which costs more
>>
>>59493646
solution to a non-existent problem
>>
>>59504747
this faggot cuck doesn't even realize that $12 a cable is fucking ridiculous money for a fucking cable.
fuck that faggot shill.
>>
>>59497746
dell made an 8k monitor that uses DP. go figure
>>
the little spiky bits destroy dp ports if the button stops working

hdmi is safer
>>
>>59493646
>What went wrong?
I'm on DP right now anon not sure what you mean.
>>
>>59504880
>$12 a cable is fucking ridiculous money for a fucking cable

For a 15ft cable? I think not.
>>
>>59494109
Friends don't let friends buy dell anon.
>>
>>59505643
fuckoff shillcuck
$12 for a bit of ruber and ultrathin wires is overpriced as it gets
>>
>>59500520
Thats an open connector.
Thread posts: 157
Thread images: 13


[Boards: 3 / a / aco / adv / an / asp / b / bant / biz / c / can / cgl / ck / cm / co / cock / d / diy / e / fa / fap / fit / fitlit / g / gd / gif / h / hc / his / hm / hr / i / ic / int / jp / k / lgbt / lit / m / mlp / mlpol / mo / mtv / mu / n / news / o / out / outsoc / p / po / pol / qa / qst / r / r9k / s / s4s / sci / soc / sp / spa / t / tg / toy / trash / trv / tv / u / v / vg / vint / vip / vp / vr / w / wg / wsg / wsr / x / y] [Search | Top | Home]

I'm aware that Imgur.com will stop allowing adult images since 15th of May. I'm taking actions to backup as much data as possible.
Read more on this topic here - https://archived.moe/talk/thread/1694/


If you need a post removed click on it's [Report] button and follow the instruction.
DMCA Content Takedown via dmca.com
All images are hosted on imgur.com.
If you like this website please support us by donating with Bitcoins at 16mKtbZiwW52BLkibtCr8jUg2KVUMTxVQ5
All trademarks and copyrights on this page are owned by their respective parties.
Images uploaded are the responsibility of the Poster. Comments are owned by the Poster.
This is a 4chan archive - all of the content originated from that site.
This means that RandomArchive shows their content, archived.
If you need information for a Poster - contact them.