AMD believes that the Windows® 10 thread scheduler is operating

How can white men compete

>>59394927
As usual, the AMD fanboy community is fucking wrong.

>>59394927
>large differences in performance between windows 7 and windows 10
>windows 10 is not the problem
Explain this shit.

>>59394927
>>59395370
>>59395376
I know these threads are usually full of retarded shilling, but shouldn't modern games be performing better on AMD's 2 x 4 core layout, since this is the topology that games are optimised for in the PS4 and Xbox One?

The Xbox One and PS4 both use 8 core AMD CPUs, and most games these days are optimised for consoles, then ported to PC due to the market size.

>>59395376
If you knew anything about technology you'd realize what they say in that article is that Windows 10 did nothing wrong, it's the software that runs benchmarks on the higher level that fucked up.

It's either something at the library or compiler level. PS. Before you say it, most benchmarks aren't compiled on Intel compiler.

Alternatively, AMD's GPU drivers suck if it's gaming benchmarks. That's be funny.

>>59395376
AMD's Windows 10 Zen driver is shit.

>>59395403
It means absolutely nothing because the OS the game is running on is fundamentally different.

>>59395406
That might be the most likely explanation actually. IT STILL NEEDS DRIVERS, e.g. chipset drivers and a ppm driver for the CPU itself.

PS. Win 7 is not supported, haha.

>>59395411
So you're saying there is still a software issue that needs to be patched in Windows?

Because if the game is optimised to spread processing over a mulithreaded 2 x CCX topology, that isn't going to change because of the operating system, that's how it's programmed to work.

>>59395440
Not when it comes to gaming comparison between a Windows PC and a console, no.

Turning Windows into the equivalent of a console OS would pretty much ruin it for everything else.

>>59395403
not when you have giant OS overhead, main problem of ryzen in games is cache latency/constant rewrites which happens because of OS mismanagement

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>>59394927

we have whole thread dedicated to it already with contradictory evidence to everything about ryzen from all fronts

>>59395545
Do you have any links for evidence of this? If that was the case it should be fairly easy to patch out, just like any other new CPU architecture.

>>59395404
>it's the software that runs benchmarks on the higher level that fucked up.
It's because of the latency between the CCXs right? And software today use random threads.

>>59395526
This doesn't really make any sense at all. In the gaming benchmarks the CPU usage of the Ryzen cores were all hover very low compared to a 7700K, which indicates that either Windows has an issue, or the games do. Obviously the games are optimised for this kind of topology, so it must be a Windows issue which needs to be fixed.

>>59395404
>Windows 10 is the special-needs-kid of Microsoft
toppest of lyls

>>59395570
https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/ryzen-strictly-technical.2500572/page-21

a lot of things consolidated in that thread

>>59395579
Both the PS4 and Xbox One use 2 x CCX AMD architecture, the same as Zen. So it's obviously not a problem for games. Windows isn't recognising the topology properly or something.

Reminder that we are in the early adopter phase. New architecture, new problems.

>>59395595
Isn't Xbone running on some kind of embedded Win10-shit?

>>59395609
It runs the NT kernel, yes

>THEY FELL FOR THE RYPOO MEME

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>BF4 Windows 7, Ryzen 1700X Stock, R9 Fury 1050MHz

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>BF4 Windows 10, Ryzen 1700X Stock, R9 Fury 1050Mhz

>windows 7 is better they say

>>59395586
Driver.

>>59395593
>that guy who turns up, only has had an account for four days, starts claiming the problem with zen is similar to ethernet neworking on hub based networks as if he has any idea about core interconnects

Yeah, maybe I will wait until Anantech actually do an article on it. These people are probably the same blithering idiots who cried about Time Spy, trying to use GPUInfo to prove their case when they had no idea how to use the data GPUInfo provides.

>>59395706
that guy gets btfo couple pages later, but whatever

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>>59395617
>>59395625
>>59395632
>inb4 muh 720P!!! no one plays at 720P.

>>59395814
>posting the same beaner fake graph disproved by the beaner joker himself
when will poojeet even learn

>>59395858
what do you mean, proven by Joker himself?

>>59394927
>AMDtoddels
WHAT DID HE MEAN BY THIS?

>>59395868
he underclocked 7700k to 3.5Ghz

>>59395884
is this speculation or did he actually confirm this?

>>59395901
He redid the benchmark after being called out and the results were close to other sources. What can you expect from a retard who sells amd t-shirts.

>>59395927
Nothing you said is true, nice knowing at least someone is so up their ass they believe shit on /g/

>>59395403
Once nvidia gets hand on those console ports, gameworks will cripple performances.

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>>59395940
no pay for you poojeet

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>>59395884
>>59395901
>>59395927
>This video shows raw benchmarks captured with the AMD Ryzen 1700 (3.9GHz) CPU versus the i7 7700K (5GHz) from Intel. GPU is GTX 1080.

You're a blatant fucking liar.

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>>59395959
wrong pic

>>59395376
Microsoft payed amd to shill windows 10. Easy as that.

>>59396035
>Microsoft payed amd
back to /pol/ kid
amd was always capitalist scam
you idiots pretend to play school children with "favorite companies"
jesus fucking christ you are manchildren
grow the fuck up and fuck off

>>59396047
Is overreacting just a thing you do?

>>59395943
>GimpWerks
Prepare to get GREENED

>>59396035
which in turn would make their hardware look shit.
you really think that?

>>59394927
>Being in a state where you cannot do the act of believing that a company from a country were curry is used in most of food made there is actually trying to persuade their people who uses their products to change their habits of the computer's operative system on their machine to a better choice but they are in a situation where a richer entity is convincing them by the power of money to say that the less good alternative is actually better in contrary of the reality

yes

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>>59396197
>company from a country were curry is used in most of food
days without jewish tricks: 0

>>59395901
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Li00SePkRp8&t

he didn't underclock anything, tech aussie even apologized for over reacting
because nobody else called on joker but him

>>59394927
I was planning to get a Ryzen this month (I use my PC just for programming).
I use linux, is this problem in linux too?

Oh God, the fanboys on /r/amd are so annoying : they are saying that windows paid off amd to keep silent to that windows can silently fix the bug.

>>59396356
no, it's all peachy on linux
also its great for compiling

>>59396365
why did you even go there?

>>59396356
Yes

>>59395982
Right pic the first time.

>>59396379
to read news

>>59396356
No. Windows thread scheduler is a mess. Linux's thread scheduler actually works like it should.

>Thanks to core parking, it appears that single-threaded benchmarks are in fact being kept on one CCX - most of the time. So, even if they are frequently moved between cores, they only suffer context switching and extra L2 misses, which hit in the L3 cache instead. That's a relatively minor problem, and Ryzen is well-equipped to deal with it since its L3 cache is high-bandwidth and reasonably low-latency.

>With a full multi-threaded benchmark which uses all available cores (virtual and otherwise), the scheduler doesn't move threads around because there are no idle cores to move them to. Context-switch overhead and excess cache misses go away. Furthermore, most workloads of this type are "embarrassingly parallelisable" which means very little communication between threads is necessary for correct results - mostly "I've finished this batch" and "Here's another one to work on". Inter-CCX traffic therefore remains low, and Ryzen still performs very well.

>Games don't cleanly fall into either of the above categories. Modern game engines are multithreaded to some degree, but they generally can't keep all 16 hardware threads busy at once, yet they *can* keep the CPU busy enough for many (if not all) cores to be unparked. Worse, they are not running clean, uniform, embarrassingly-parallelisable algorithms, but a heterogeneous mixture of producers and consumers which are *constantly* communicating and synchronising among themselves. This, for Ryzen, is the worst-case scenario.

>And that's why we're talking about the problem in these terms - if we can tame Windows' scheduler, Ryzen will run faster in games.

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>>59395814
Lmao that is literally a fake benchmark admitted by Joker

Here is reality

>>59396280
There's a fry's electronics right next to it too.

>>59397037
>Here is reality
Where the windows 10 thread scheduler is complete ass

>>59397391
> I'm incapable to even read the OP

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>>59396875
>Games don't cleanly fall into either of the above categories.
>This, for Ryzen, is the worst-case scenario.

gg

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>>59394927

my R7 1700 is hotter than my fucking housefire FX-8350 FFS

maybe i should've bought an intel based system instead

>>59397416
>NoSMT + 5fps
>literally incapable of looking at an image
That image is literally the BIOS bugged no update release version. Eat shit.

>>59397037
>The reason why disabling SMT seems to improve performance in Windows10 almost surely has to do with increasing the affinity at which Windows10 thread scheduler will move threads around.

>Games have very uneven loads on their threads compared to most workstation tasks that load up threads heavily from start to finish on a task. When you disable SMT, you keep the 8 threads loaded more heavily than 16 in many cases.
>With SMT enabled, it seems the performance drops have to do with creating situations where the scheduler more often moves threads across the CCX rather than AMD's SMT being in any way inherently worse for gaming despite the big performance increases it gives in other tasks. It also moves threads off of a turbo'd core and it takes some ms for the turbo to ramp back up on the new core.

>>59397474
>lies, the post
I'm literally freezing

>>59397037

>2017
>1080P

fuck off poorfag

1440P is the bare minimum for 24"+ monitors.

I can see the actual pixels on my 24" 1080P monitor from 5 feet away

>>59397443
And here we have someone who obviously doesn't read beyond headlines.
The conclusion is that yes, Windows 10's thread scheduler is the cause of the problem.

>>59397443
This is not going to be problem on 4core Ryzens, all they need to do is to increase that core speed to 4.5 at least and that will make it compete with 7700k

>>59397037

>buying a Nvidiot 1080 for 1080P

>>>/r/pcmasterrace idiot retard

>Whichever approach Windows uses, it constantly attempts to move threads to less-loaded CPUs - even when it is the *only* runnable thread on its original CPU - and it counts the thread's own past load against its current CPU. This is inhibited only by the parking and affinity masks (which are clearly bolted-on afterthoughts), and makes no allowance whatsoever for SMT, NUMA, cache affinity, or the cost of context switches. The book chapter I linked doesn't mention SMT or NUMA (it may be a relatively old book, in which those concepts were not yet widespread), but it *does* talk about the other two factors as being key for efficiency.

>This *should* be very easy for Microsoft to fix, if they can be bothered. Simply make any thread meeting all of the following criteria ineligible for migration:
>•It is the only thread currently in its CPU's run queue.
>•It currently satisfies its own affinity mask, if any.
>•Its CPU is not parked.
>•It shares the same LLC as all other threads in the same process.
>This would make the precise behaviour of the core-parking algorithm much less important for enforcing short-term performance and efficiency goals. A useful additional parameter to the latter would then be an optimisation target, taking the following values:
>•Execution resources - the current behaviour, preferentially unparking just one thread per physical core.
>•Cache affinity - as above, but only within each LLC block. When all cores are unparked in one LLC, begin on the next.
>•Power efficiency - always unpark all virtual cores in the same physical core before proceeding to another physical core. Also unpark all physical cores in one LLC before proceeding to the next.

>>59396430
you should probably just stay there next time

>>59397550
I just wish AMD talked about this with Microsoft before the release, now the shills are constantly posting the shitty old benchmarks.

>>59397613
They did. Microsoft have known about it for over a year.

>>59397643
Oh, Microsoft keeps managing to be less like-able. Kind of impressive.

Conguroglation to rysen designer and amd


workers,i ask near 20 ryzen buyer ,are you happy withryzen , 100% say YES


People must be clever and dont belive intel seller gossip to harm ryzen


I hope all understand ryzen technology new 99% of games(software) cant relize and see ryzen cores truley


Like CPU-Z erorr in 1st week , after add ryzen works exclent , so games need time to update to see ryzen truely (if you check youtube games test ryzen games can use avrage 20% of cpu , 2core 4 threat only!!!!!!!???)


I promise ryzen 7 real and total power is 200% more from i7-7700


However compair 7700 with 4 core(produce for game) not fair with 8core cpu(optimize for workstation)


Thanks to all in amd, i belive after software update and VEGA graphic,we will see 100% moreryzen power(speed)

>>59397474
it's actual temp is 20C less, it's done for consistent fan reasons

http://www.guru3d.com/news-story/amd-ryzen-7-have-a-temperature-20-degree-c-reporting-offset.html

>>59397711
Fuck off, Intel shill. The adults are talking.

>>59397711
Not sure if this is someone who can't speak English used Google translate, or some Intel shill pretending to be retarded.

>>59397550
sounds neat, it will never pass MS validation committees

>>59397752
someone either did actual google translate from Hindu
or english->hindu-english

google translate produces some cool stuff sometimes

Can we just accept the fact ryzen is DOA for gaming

No software update can change the fundamental architectural problems which cause this and AFAIK it's the 2x core clusters which is causing shit performance due to latency.

>>59397711
>the average amd shill

Yikes

>>59397817
>AFAIK it's the 2x core clusters which is causing shit performance due to latency.
Yep, which work perfectly fine on Linux, because Windows is ass.

>>59397817
it's better than i5 costs the same as i5Kz270
and only slightly worse than i7K, it's good.

focus moved to R7 1700 long ago, nobody seriously considering 1800x for gaming

I'm thinking about 1700x, but only because it's price only 10% higher than 1700 here(we have weird smuggling going on)

>>59397817
Except for you know the R3s and R5s which haven't come out yet. No one expected the R7s to be a great deal for gaming in the first place.

>>59397817
> Can we just accept the fact ryzen is DOA for gaming
Can you just do some fucking research before shitposting?
Windows thread scheduler is a bag of dicks. Linux's thread scheduler works like it's supposed to.

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>Reddit: "There are no problems"
>Microsoft: "We are working on fixes"
>AMD: "¯\_(ツ)_/¯"
>Me: "Fuck off"

>>59397514
yeah that's not gonna happen

>>59397817

>AFAIK it's the 2x core clusters which is causing shit performance due to latency

A 16 year old's armchair science at work here.

>>59397726
That offset is for the x variants.

The 1700 doesn't have that offset, so it could very well be running hotter.

>>59397986
The table AMD shows has 1700 in it for no reason?

>>59397886
they will have the same config tho

dual clusters or whatever

whats there to stop this from happening to them

I am really really confused what processor I should be getting for my next build (planning to build it by christmas).

>>59398077
There's no reason to believe it will use two core complexes when it makes just as much sense to cut one out to save on die space. The whole reason they went with this design was to make changing the configuration of the cores easier.

>>59398106
And thanks to this article linked by article, I'm even more confused.

>>59398116
*linked by OP

>>59398106
>by christmas
everything will be clear by that time

>>59398111
how will they make a 6 core cpu without using a single 4 core complex and then half of another complex?

>>59398181
4c is one CCX
6c is failed R7 with two CCX and disabled one core in each
look up AMD slides, they disclosed it

>>59398181
6 cores is guaranteed to be 2 complexes. 4 cores not as clear. They could just completely skip making a summit ridge die with 1 CCX and instead take a raven ridge die and disable the GPU. Same result but save from ahving to make a completely new die just for 1 CCX

>>59398023
Did you even read the table?

It says there's no offset for the 1700. If a temp sensor says 38c, its 38c.

>>59398198
>>59398206
but then in the case of the 6-core, wouldn't this bring up the latency issues again due to the multiple complexes?

this is the r5 right? i have a feeling we'll be seeing similar benchmarks to the r7 when the r5 is tested due to the similar configuration.

the r3 quad core, 8 threads is probably the way to go for gaming then

>>59398264
probably will be better due to much bigger L3 per core
specially considering rumored 200 price

>>59398264
There was a "leaked" product lineup a while ago that showed the 6 cores under the R5 brand but there were also 4 cores under the R5 brand. I'm not completely sure if the "leaks" were legit but that's what I've been lead to believe. IIRC the R3s were said to be 4c/4t and below while the R5s will be 4c/8t and 6c/12t.

>>59394927
>Just wait when w10 resolve the issues Zen will be a top product
Meanwhile own amd dismiss the rumor.

What is the new thing to blame drones?

>>59395595
Except console architecture is completely different, including shared memory for CPU and CPU. It's not the same albeit you can optimize ports for it, but it's gonna be hard, you will end needing to compile game code to perform different for 2 CPU architectures, Intel and AMD, my bet things will not change much as Intel dominate the market share and and performance isn't that much bad.

>>59395414
>Win 7 is not supported
and interestingly enough, Ryzen runs better on it

Still doesn't explain why windows 7 runs noticeably faster than windows 10. There's obviously a difference somewhere.

>>59398938
because people are comparing Win7 benchmarks with benchmarks of Win10 which had HPET enabled and performance mode on balanced

https://www.computerbase.de/2017-03/ryzen-windows-7-benchmark-core-parking/

>>59399513
That could be it. Looks like Win10 actually does about the same when those two options are enabled.

>>59397711
This is actually creative

>>59399513
So did the ze Germans solve the mystery?

>>59397550
Yeah, well, but how would these changes benefit Microsoft in order to display ads in Windows 10?