Stop calling the GNU operating system "Linux". Things

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>>59171678
No.

Also, GNU isn't an OS either. A good compiler plus a bunch of shit-tier userland tools don't make an OS.

Why not call it Chrome/KDE/Linux then?
Hypocrite.

>>59171678

the insane amount of drivers built for the Linux system makes it an "operating system", a vague term whose definition is rooted in workflows associated with 1960s era mainframes

>>59171732
GNU is the operating system developed starting in the 80s by the GNU project; Linux is just a second contribution. The whole idea of an operating system like UNIX, but free as in freedom roots at the GNU project.

>>59171762
Thousands of projects have developed programs commonly included in today's GNU/Linux systems. They all deserve credit for their contributions, but they aren't the principal developers of the system as a whole, so they don't ask to be credited as such.

GNU is different because it is more than just a contributed program, more than just a collection of contributed programs. GNU is the framework on which the system was made.

>>59171765
This answer is the one you're looking for

>>59171678
Keep spergin' spergin' spergin' spergin'

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>>59171790
>GNU is different because it is more than just a contributed program, more than just a collection of contributed programs.
That is what stallmen believe.

>>59171824
maybe you should educate yourself about some tech history

>>59171790
>GNU is different
You are full of shit. KDE is more important than GNU.
GNU can be re-rewritten in a week by a big company.

>>59171848
So can BSD, does it change the fact that BSD is BSD?

OMG IT'S A DE FACTO BRANDNAME YOU STUPID SHIT. The legal part of this does not matter. The ACTUAL reality is that this is what people choose to call and that is its name, period.

>>59171897
The popularity of an error doesn't make it the truth.

>>59171678
why trying to rename it? it's linux since ever, pretty bad move of gnu desu

>>59171848
>GNU can be re-rewritten in a week by a big company.
There is just no fucking way that could conceivably happen without advanced AI.

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>>59171965
We are not renaming anything; we have been calling this system “GNU” ever since we announced it in 1983. The people who tried to rename it to “Linux” should not have done so.

Why not call it Freeciv/X11/Xterm/GNU/Linux?

>>59171824
guess what unix was? was it just a kernel or a userland with a set of programs you could pipe around? that's what gnu is today: not unix, but unix-like; a free clone of the unix operating system

>>59172048
see >>59171790

>>59171926
So you are saying that everyone pronouncing gif with a hard g is also wrong since it's creator says soft g?

>>59172050
Calling UNIX an operating system itself is pretty retarded by todays standards.

>>59172066
Modern distros only contains some 8% LOC of GNU
If you create your distro, you get the name it however you like it

>>59172097
it's not about the correct name, it's about the reason why the os (gnu) exists, which is freedom. linux (its developer linus) doesn't care about freedom, that's the main problem. credit is just a secondary question

>>59172144
So its soft g then good to know

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>>59172144
At this plane of existence real freedom doesn't exist anyway. Deal with it.

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>>59172137
In 2008, we found that GNU packages made up 15% of the “main” repository of the gNewSense GNU/Linux distribution. Linux made up 1.5%. So the same argument would apply even more strongly to calling it “Linux”.

GNU is a small fraction of the system nowadays, and Linux is an even smaller fraction. But they are the system's core; the system was made by combining them. Thus, the name “GNU/Linux” remains appropriate.

>>59172156
it's very soft

>>59171848
No it can't
Nope

>>59171732

You are wrong, the GNU OS was a project devised like 40 years ago, and when they were halfway done the Linux kernel was created and they decided to adopt it. GNU even had its own kernel and was an OS before that. The environment actually called GNU/Linux is the realization of the GNU OS concept, educate yourself so you don't look like an imbecile when you make ignorant shitposts.

Linux just straight up sounds better than GNU/Linux.

It rolls off the tongue better than anything that begins with that hard G

>>59173365
>Linux just straight up sounds better than GNU/Linux.
>It rolls off the tongue better than anything that begins with that hard G
Maybe we should pronounce it with a soft G then? Like Gif - Jif

>>59173365
just call it gnu then; it's even shorter
you don't call windows "NT", android "linux" or macOS "xnu" either, just mention the kernel when it really matters

>>59171762
Chromium/Plasma5/SDDM/Systemd/GNU/Linux

>>59173525
see >>59172066

>>59173365

GNU is pronounced ñu retard.

>>59173562
I've heard Stallman speak before.

>>59173365
technology is a long word too, just let's call it crap, which is shorter and sounds better

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>>59173256
>GNU even had its own kernel
And then it just vanished.

>>59173562
Guh-noo

>>59173593
see, gnu isn't a company that wants to "win" or gain the most marketshare. there's no point in finishing hurd, since linux exists, which is good enough (after deblobbing) to have a free operating system. the work they're doing on hurd today is just fun, they don't want to compete.

>>59171732
>A good compiler
>implying

>>59173654
>implying clang can compile a complete distro
and even if it could, it would be sad since it would boost proprietary market share once again

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>>59171732
>Mail me at "[email protected]" if you have any questions.

>Sadly, a kernel by itself gets you nowhere. To get a working system you
>need a shell, compilers, a library etc. These are separate parts and may
>be under a stricter (or even looser) copyright. Most of the tools used
>with linux are GNU software and are under the GNU copyleft. These tools
>aren't in the distribution - ask me (or GNU) for more info.
http://ftp.funet.fi/pub/linux/historical/kernel/old-versions/RELNOTES-0.01

>>59173679
>this other shitty compiler makes my shitty compiler good

>>59173654
Software quality can only be measured in comparison with other software. Like msvc and obscure, proprietary embedded 8bit c compilers.

>>59171678
actually linux has a command line (configured in grub), but granded, it's actually just a single line of informations you can give the kernel when booting

>>59173773
That's not what people mean when they ask about command line / command line programs anyway.

>>59171678
>be developer
>slap linux, GNU coreutils, X11, some window manager, some desktop environment, some package manager, compilers, etc together
>decide name of new operating system
>eg., Debian Linux
>autists sperg out
>'that's not the real name of your operating system'
No retard, the development group and maintainer of the distribution has the one and only say on the name of their distribution. If they choose to call it Debian Linux, or Manjaro Linux, or Linux Mint, or Fedora, etc etc, you can whine, but you're still wrong

>>59173593

You are a retard. The Hurd kernel is still being maintained and there are GNU/Hurd machines being used in production environments. This is why you should educate yourself idiot.

>>59174025
it's acutually called Debian GNU/Linux, check their site

>>59174025
When they spread misinformation by changing “GNU” to “Linux”, and call their version of it “Foobar Linux”, it's proper for you to correct the misinformation by calling it “Foobar GNU/Linux”.

>>59174025
see, xy linux would be a proper name in case xy would be a fork of linux, the kernel (like linux libre is), but it isn't; it's a distribution of the gnu system, combined with linux, the kernel

>>59174101
Really it's just Debian, but I was just making it up. The point is that Debian can call themselves whatever they want.

>>59174114
It is not the distributions job to make their name serve your ethical desires

>>59174150
irrelevant.

>>59174163
stop defending mass stupity

>>59174201
I am not defending anything but the right of distribution developers and maintainers to name their product as they see fit.

>>59173631
>>59174050
>hurd
>production environments
You both are retards. GCC is easily the most and only important thing that GNU has ever produced.

>>59174214
it's their right, but it's also your right to correct them

>>59174163
>Really it's just Debian
https://wiki.debian.org/DebianIntroduction

>>59174235
>correct
Telling a distribution that it's name is wrong is not 'correcting' it. It's your legal right to be a whining autist, but that's what you are and the whole world sees you for it

>>59174295
>Debian is a free operating system (OS) for your computer.
Debian's name is just Debian

>be gnu
>make some shitty userspace libraries
>put them on top of linux
>pretend to be the operating system

I long for the day linux kernel hackers create a liblinux.so that just works, thereby raping all you gnu libc faggots in the ass

>>59171732
You got it backwards. GNU userland is excellent and GCC is bloated trash.

>>59173717
>windows has a better compiler
neck yourself

>>59174590
That's not how it works, anon. It's the other way around, The GNU OS exists since the 80s, in the 90s Linux was developed (proprietary) and in 92 it became free and was combined with GNU. Hence GNU/Linux.

>>59174643
>GNU came first
>actual hierarchy of the system doesn't matter
Please stop

>>59174590
What's the problem with GNU? Why the hate? All they want is spreading the word of freedom, whcih is for your own good.

>>59174702
people are pissed when you correct them, so they try to bend everything to prove you wrong - even on the cost of freedom

>hey /g/, how can I completly de-GNU my system?

>>59174731
>hey /g/, how can I completly de-GNU my system?
Those systems wouldn't be GNU/Linux, but it wouldn't change the fact that GNU/Linux systems are GNU/Linux systems. I don't get why people keep mentioning "HURR DURR I CAN RUN LINUX WITHOUT GNU", there's literally no point in mentioning it, since it's obvious; one can run GNU without Linux and Linux without GNU, but the combination is GNU/Linux.

wondering why people call android android instead of linux, but omit gnu when it comes to linux on the desktop

its literally the same thing, android the google os, linux the kernel

>>59174799
marketing / media

>>59174702
Because they're fucking obnoxious and their libraries are fucking bloated and just plain garbage. Use musl libc instead, or better yet just ditch libc completely and target Linux system call interface.

>>59174643
Your drug-adled microkernel was never a thing and never will be. Go finish that instead of hijacking other people's projects.

That's a cool fucken pepe

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>>59174932
We would like credit for the GNU operating system no matter which kernel is used with it.

>>59174932
>hijacking other people's projects
they don't? nobody is asking you to call the kernel GNU/Linux or something

>>59174957
Linux is the OS.

>>59174980
Nobody calls Linux "Linux/systemd" either.

>>59174932
>bloated
Bloat or simply an increased set of features?

a) mostly comments, which are there because the stuff is made to be hacked on

b) compatibility with other systems, legacy and backwards compatibility and lots of --help documentations, long options, etc

c) better performance, for example GNU's cat is reading whole chunks with buffering, while BSD's cat reads/writes in a simple loop, wich is not only slow, but also inefficient

>>59175018
see >>59173531

Why don't we just start unironically calling it GNUnix?

>>59175114
or just gnu

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>>59175144
It would not be false to the facts, but it is not the best thing to do. Here are the reasons we call that system version “GNU/Linux” rather than just “GNU”:

It's not exactly GNU—it has a different kernel (that is, Linux). Distinguishing GNU/Linux from GNU is useful.

It would be ungentlemanly to ask people to stop giving any credit to Linus Torvalds. He did write an important component of the system. We want to get credit for launching and sustaining the system's development, but this doesn't mean we should treat Linus the same way those who call the system “Linux” treat us. We strongly disagree with his political views, but we deal with that disagreement honorably and openly, rather than by trying to cut him out of the credit for his contribution to the system.

Since many people know of the system as “Linux”, if we say “GNU” they may simply not recognize we're talking about the same system. If we say “GNU/Linux”, they can make a connection to what they have heard about.

>>59175182
>mfw this whole thread is actually copypasta

>>59175067
>mostly comments

God knows they need that shit. Their code is the most unreadable legacy C I have EVER touched

>portability

I only ever use Linux bitch. I don't need this idiotic crap and can benefit from increased performance by targetting Linux system calls interface instead of some legacy ass POSIX spec whose buggy ass implementation can be found in the GNU "OS". Linux is something else, something better. GNU bootstrapping itself on top of Linux doesn't make it an OS.

>gnu cat

Wow who fucking cares go improve other people's code if you care about goddamn cat so much.

>>59175211
A bit. https://www.gnu.org/gnu/gnu-linux-faq.en.html

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>>59175225
why so angry?

>>59171678
GNU isn't important enough to justify appending it to the Linux.

You might as well call it GCC/Linux or Vim/Linux if that's your mindset.

>>59175251
Because you self-important people are fucking disgusting. Nobody fucking cares about your "GNU system"

>>59175266
see >>59175082

>people actually believe anyone other than RMS cares about what Linux is called

>>59175277
Self-important are people who can't stand their own mistakes and try to force their wrong views on others.

Antec/ASUS/Intel/Chromium/Plasma5/SDDM/Systemd/GNU/Linux

>>59175277
>Nobody fucking cares about your "GNU system"
but everyone is using it - crazy
do you feel bad when you run "ls"?
does it make you angry in the same way?
or do you actually think ls it part of the kernel?

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>>59175386
What we say is that you ought to give the system's principal developer a share of the credit. The principal developer is the GNU Project, and the system is basically GNU.

If you feel even more strongly about giving credit where it is due, you might feel that some secondary contributors also deserve credit in the system's name. If so, far be it from us to argue against it. If you feel that X11 deserves credit in the system's name, and you want to call the system GNU/X11/Linux, please do. If you feel that Perl simply cries out for mention, and you want to write GNU/Linux/Perl, go ahead.

Since a long name such as GNU/X11/Apache/Linux/TeX/Perl/Python/FreeCiv becomes absurd, at some point you will have to set a threshold and omit the names of the many other secondary contributions. There is no one obvious right place to set the threshold, so wherever you set it, we won't argue against it.

Different threshold levels would lead to different choices of name for the system. But one name that cannot result from concerns of fairness and giving credit, not for any possible threshold level, is “Linux”. It can't be fair to give all the credit to one secondary contribution (Linux) while omitting the principal contribution (GNU).

>>59175430
>Creating a functional OS
>Secondary contribution

>>59171678
I'm terribly sorry for interjecting another moment, but what I just told you is GNU/Linux is, in fact, just Linux, or as I've just now taken to calling it, Just Linux. Linux apparently does happen to be a whole operating system unto itself and comprises a full OS as defined by POSIX.

Most computer users who run the entire Linux system every day already realize it. Through a peculiar turn of events, I was misled into calling the system "GNU/Linux", and until now, I was unaware that it is basically the Linux system, developed by the Linux project.

There really isn't a GNU/Linux, and I really wasn't using it; it is an extraneous misrepresentation of the system that's being used. Linux is the operating system: the entire system made useful by its included corelibs, shell utilities, and other vital system components. The kernel is already an integral part of the Linux operating system, never confined useless by itself; it functions coherently within the context of the complete Linux operating system. Linux is never used in combination with GNU accessories: the whole system is basically Linux without any GNU added, or Just Linux. All the so-called "GNU/Linux" distributions are really distributions of Linux.

>>59175579
see >>59173716

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>>59172156
>>59172206
>giraffics interchange format

>>59171678
if thats the case why do you understand what I mean when I refer to liunx just like 90% of other normal people

https://www.linux.com/what-is-linux

>>59176482
https://www.linux.com/learn/making-most-skype-linux

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>>59176482
kek
>copy pasted the four freedoms as defined by rms
>ctrl+f
>no mention of gnu
very nice

>>59176522
>>copy pasted the four freedoms as defined by rms


>In some ways, Linux was the project that really made the split clear between what the FSF is pushing which is very different from what open source and Linux has always been about, which is more of a technical superiority instead of a -- this religious belief in freedom."
>-- Linus Torvalds

>>59176522
>dead_tux.jpg

>>59176401
see >>59171926

>>59173408
Nobody fucking does that.

>>59171678
>implying I use that disgusting GNU bloat on my machine
Alpine Linux (musl) + plan9port + openrc + a bunch of shit + Linux for lyfe

>>59178407
see >>59174771

>>59171926
Yes it does you stupid moron. Educate yourself once in a while.

http://blog.oxforddictionaries.com/2013/02/when-does-wrong-become-right/

Linux + BSD userland when?

>>59172206
like your benis :-)

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>>59171678
Stop referring to the Linux operating system as GNU. If I use GPL software in Windows, does that turn it into GNU/Windows? No!

>>59179866
Windows/NT = Windows
Android/Linux = Android
OSX/XNU = OSX
GNU/Linux = ____

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>>59179866
Not in the same sense that we mean by “GNU/Linux”. The tools of GNU are just a part of the GNU software, which is just a part of the GNU system, and underneath them you would still have another complete operating system which has no code in common with GNU. All in all, that's a very different situation from GNU/Linux.

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>>59174941
enjoy

>>59179866
>linux
>operating system
show me how you run linux on it's own

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Stop calling the Linux operating system "GNU".

Things that don't exist:
>GNU os (yet)
>GNU box (yet)
>GNU shell (yet)
>GNU server (yet)
>GNU machine (yet)
>GNU desktop (yet)
>GNU computer (yet)
>GNU terminal (except maybe gnome)
>GNU command line (yet)

Linux is an OS (also kernel), which is used as the mayor defining component of serveral operating systems; while it hardly runs on its own, it comes pretty close, and it does when combined with various utilities from a huge variety of sources.

go back to work on hurd and stop trying to steal from others

>>59180659
Well, Linux is a kernel - a kernel is an OS. GNU is a set of programs, libs, shell, compiler, etc - which is also an OS (like UNIX).
Both, GNU and Linux are operating systems; both incomplete. Together they make a full OS you can install and run.
You don't need GNU to make Linux work and you don't need Linux to make GNU work; GNU/Linux is just the most popular combination.
Also popular: Android (plus Linux). You wouldn't call Android just 'Linux', Windows just NT or macOS just XNU. So why omit the GNU OS?

http://blog.oxforddictionaries.com/2013/02/when-does-wrong-become-right/

/thread

you lost

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>>59181274
To care only about what's convenient or who's winning is an amoral approach to life. Non-free software is an example of that amoral approach and thrives on it. Thus, in the long run it would be self-defeating for us to adopt that approach. We will continue talking in terms of right and wrong.

We hope that you are one of those for whom right and wrong do matter.

>>59181249
I have way more stuff than just GNU in my system

>>59181249
>linux

>uhhhh actually it's GNU-linux

The point is that there isn't any other GNU, the GNU is implied. Why do I need to specify GNU? What fringe cases actually exist making everyone use 3 useless letters in front of a perfectly good noun.

>>59180659
you're perfectly proving the the whole problem; it's not about what the communtiy contributes to the system (such as kde, gnome, systemd, x11, etc), the initial system is GNU, 10 years later linux was added, which together made the core of todays GNU/Linux distros
this doesn't include the de, the init, the terminal or whatever

>>59181336
If you're using it everyday and enjoy it, why not giving credit?

>>59181336
why isn't android just implied?
why dont people call android linux?
media, faggot sheep

>>59175225
>I only ever use Linux bitch
doubt it; you probably use GNU, but you're too retarded to know it

>>59181304
But you autistic stupid shit, BOTH linux and gnu/linux is "wrong" if you even had a point, since not everything that linux needs are made by stallman's old pet project.
Stalllman is a megalomaniac and you play into his meme.
Fuck him and fuck you.

>>59178407
>look at my mental illness
sad to be you tbqh

>>59181407
do you have any problems with software freedom? because this is what gnu is fighting for

>>59181422
>let's change the subject
busted. now fuck off.
you have autism.

>>59180659
>Linux is an OS (also kernel)
no, just a kernel, here you go: https://www.kernel.org/

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it's somehow sad to see all these people itt changing the sides against gnu and software freedom for the sole purpose of justifying themselfs to call the system "just linux"

>>59171678
why?

Posted from my linux rig

>>59181617
>my android phone
ftfy