i fucking hate javascript and it's bazillion frameworks

js was a mistake
how do we fix it?

>java
>2017
anon...

>>58949504
I feel sorry for anyone having to deal with this shit.

>>58949504
>not writing websites in node.js

thats your own fault anon

>>58949523
pls ban this absolute idiot

>>58949504
Btw. I heard there's no place for javascript in this "IoT" dev thing...

Complete noob here. What exactly is the point of those Frameworks?

Ive built a few sites just for fun. Anytime I'm making one I honestly can't even see the point in using javascript most of the time. I'm sure my bullshit sites are just simple and you need it more in the future, but I think javascript is over used period.

Like if I needed something to change onclick or something that read the users timezone sure but why?

>>58949518
we need to cleanse the world of bloated frameworks

>>58949555
why?

Why would you still be using java unless you were literally being forced to? And if you were being forced to, get a new job.

>>58949504
1) If you feel like you are not super smart, just use Vue.js, it's the jQuery of frontend development. It works perfectly fine with whatever backend / frontend-backend technology you chose. Node.js, Java EE, Spring, PHP, whatever the python losers use, vue.js works well with all of them and doesn't need a crazy build pipeline.
2) If you enjoy wasting a lot of time on configuring your application and want to find "modern" work in frontend development, go with node.js and react.
3) If you want to find work in frontend development and become suicidal because you have to work with a framework nearly as overengineered as JSF, chose node.js + angular2.
4) There are still a lot of jQuery jobs if you insist on learning an outdated technology.

Those four are really your only choices atm and some would probably argue that vue.js actually isn't a proper choice at all. As for design (CSS): If you don't want to do it yourself, slap on bootstrap. Bootstrap itself is a marketable skill by the way. If bootstrap is too much for you, use something like pure.css.
That's it, that's literally it, those are the only few choices you need to take. Everything else is esoteric bullshit.

>>58949612
honestly i just want to graduate my current education so I can enter something more fun than devving. thanks anon, i'll give vue.js a try

i wanna see what being a sysadmin is like

>>58949659
>i wanna see what being a sysadmin is like


me too, I got a final semi-huge nodejs project for uni due in 3 months. if everything goes well and i wont hang myself i'm gonna take a two weeks vacation to clear my mind and then i'm gonna go back to C/Python/sysadmin stuff, fuck this frontend horse shit.

>>58949588
Hoping this is bait

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>>58949588
>Java

>>58949565
Check Vue.js markdown example and try to do it without a framework.

>>58949588
Java is a really nice language.

The only problem with java is java projects that are unnecessarily complex, that can be solved with a simple text editor. Use it and you will see how tags is GOAT and easy to navigate that shit.

Question: is it still possible nowadays to be a successful programmer basically without ever touching webdev?

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>>58949518
ES17

JS must be redeemed through penitence, just like C++ was.

>>58950002
>only problem
There's another one. Some design principles around javas stdlib are retarded. For example Clonable interface while Object's clone() method exists (and it's retarded, so it's better to use good old copy constructor).

Or like 2 weeks ago I was trying to get all language names translations. You know "English" for "en", "Deutsch" for "de", "Ruski" for "ru" etc. And method exists but it returns Map<String,Integer> so in order to get names from id you need to reverse map.

Java in principle is nice, but is full of that shit.

>>58950075
Seconding. I hate anything to do with it already.

>>58950238
Oh and standard datetime library is shit.

>>58950214
C++ is also a huge pile of shit, and is tolerated due to the same horseshit that keeps JS alive. Muh speed and muh gayman. I love spending an hour digging through gcc output because someone fucked up a boost template in one of the libraries I'm using.

>>58950075
Of course. That's like asking if it's possible to be a successful webdev without touching C/Java.

>>58950279
So knowing SQL and HTML is more than enough for non webdev job?

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>>58949588

>>58949565
Client side JavaScript is completely unnecessary if you're just doing some simple interlinked documents and forms. Often it is there just to make stuff pretty.

However people have started to build very complex dynamic elements or even desktop level applications with JavaScript and it turns out it is much easier if you have some common libraries and tools with documentation and shit to build upon. Especially if you're working in a team.

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>>58950268
Concepts anon.
Concepts will save us all.

In the meantime, we must suffer.

>>58950303
What? No. Those are not programming languages.

>>58950338
Yeah, but those are only technologies connected to web that I don't hate

>>58950267
java 8 fixed that.

But now there is like 3 "libraries" to deal with dates.

>>58950268
kys, c++ is objectively the best language

>>58950373
You can't be serious.

>>58949588
java's biggest sin is lowering the barrier of entry for rakeshsoft programmers to write shitty, unmaintainable code.

java EE is fine if you know what you're doing, but I could say that about anything.

swing is shit, applets are dead and desktop java is a joke, but java marches on in enterprise and seems to get better with every release.

>>58950268
>>58949504
>>58950214

The solution is running C# Frameworks like WPF on .NET. They are beautiful. Clean, powerful, created by actual professionals from the ground up starting from scratch only like ~10years ago.

Only problem is they are often Windows-only when it gets to the high level (they recently open source their stuff to the MIT license but it's hard to do the same for the high level stuff).

Though a large part of the negativity comes from sperglords that have the delusion everything must be 100% multiplatform and everything must be 100% freetardation.

Oh that reminds me, since I'm stuck using this piece of shit language whose answer to type safety is "the customer is always right", what IDE can I use to pretend that I'm using a real programming language? Or am I stuck with NetBeans and it's limited and bloated JsHints that never actually seem to become integrated into the auto-complete functionality.