What's the point of arguing against these if the design

You don't "learn" c++, c++ merely lets you use it for a time, and then occasionally it fucks you in the ass and takes it's keep. Don't use C++.

>>58817655
>Going for an interview with a company for programming embedded systems
>Luckily I know python and HTML so I can get hired

>>58817714
ESP8266s can run micropython and lua on <1MB flash and 512K ram

>>58817775
Well im sure those are the skills employers in this area of business will expect the most then...

>>58817836
Of course

Brb, studying JavaScript to get that net admin job I've always wanted.

>>58817692
/thread

>>58817655
Dont want to encourage any one to do it but c# is more popular than c++ of we are talking about job finding in general.
Java / python Dev here, intern in a little company who only use python (unknown reason).

>>58817692
>you don't learn c++
No. You learn programming.
C++ just makes it easier.
If you can't solve a task with C++, you are not a programmer.

>>58819456
Except the point of having C++ is gamedev.
Whereas C# is a Microsoft version of Java.

>>58819457
I don't agree. The easiest language for begginer is python. If you know english then you will understand syntax easly and you'll be able to search for help on internet forums. You don't need more. However, if you want to write optimized code for , for example, avr uC and stuff C++/C is really necessary

>>58819650
>>58819456

python is a shit language.You cant be considered a programmer if you know this one.Same for web.

>>58819666
Why you say so. Some languages are better for one type of thing, difrent for another. If you are new to this, why you should fuck yourself over iterating loops, if in python you can just simply make it like for stuff in list. what is more, where do you find something like bs4 or xml stuff as good as in Python 3 ? Now i'm really curiosus, because i use python for these, and maybe there is something different

>>58819693

Shut the fuck up

>>58819650
But you learn programming, you don't learn a language.
Easier for beginners is a weak argument, because nobody is a beginner for long.
Learning syntax is a key aspect of learning to write programs.
Starting with python is like starting to learn english without learning grammar.
It can be great to get people started and can be good for embedded systems that has an OS (because you skip the compile part and that makes it a lot faster to develop this way)

If you start with something like C++, you start by learning syntax and basic data structures.
The biggest problem with C++ is you have to compile it and if you have ever download a code project without a script to compile it, you know how much of a pain that can be to write this.

>>58819457
C++ and C are a pain in the ass. The majority of my bottlenecks are allocation related because malloc is such a piece of shit. The only thing it's good at is determinism.

>>58820276
Being a shit programmer is not really the language's fault.
C++ can automatically handle memory while still being deterministic.
Memory is easy to manage if you understand what you are doing.

>>58820400
Java Joe speaking here.

My solution is to just write a custom allocator for that shit. It's unacceptable in 2017 that an application that does almost nothing except allocate maybe 500 strings at a time (so basically around 500kb at most) consumes 4MB of RAM. 99% of the time you allocate shit and throw it away so what you want is is stack allocation for fixed size data and for dynamicly sized data you want slab allocation not some shitty allocate 4 bytes there and 16 bytes here and free 8 bytes here and then have a fragmented mess of a heap.

>>58819740
Yes, very good argument.
Have you considered suicide?

>>58819666
>I have no idea what I'm talking about : THE POST

>>58819666
t. jobless loser living under a bridge

>>58817655
Never forget that StroupStroupStroupStroupDupDup is and sees himself as a tool designer instead of as a language designer.
As a tool, C++, Java and Python make sense at least.
Regarding the web stuff, I'd guess he never worked with that. Must be nice.

File: Haha-Faggot.jpg (21KB, 367x451px) Image search: [Google]

21KB, 367x451px

>>58817655
>Bjarne telling people to know Java and Python
>mfw even his conscience can't let people starve to death

what was he recommending for high "performance numerical computation"?

Matlab is a slow as fuck

>>58817655
Ha, I know all of those, and I have a BS in CS, but I'm approaching 9 months without a job since graduating.

>>58819610
This was true a few years ago, but the languages are drifting apart.

There always were differences in culture, and in how C# gave you the INDUSTRY STANDARD (why is everything Microsoft makes desperately branded as Industry Standard[tm] btw?), framework, Java gave you tools that you could build frameworks out of. Hence why, after Rails came out, Java got similar stuff out the door very fast, and when that hype died down, and Sinatra took over as the ruby framework du jour, Java got in on that too.

Meanwhile, C# still did Asp.net.

I'm not saying that either is better or worse. I think it's an inherently different way of going about things.

But Java has Spring, Spark, and others, letting you choose templates ranging from good old JSP, and JSF, to FreeMarker to Thymeleaf to other stuff.

Java expects you to make intelligent choices in what technology to use, and C# gives you a standard decent toolkit and expect you to use it.

Thing is that this way Java stacks can look very different from eachother. A stack running spring with JSP and Hibernate ORM would be recognizable to an ASP.net programmer.

And then he'd see someone using plain SQL and no ORM because of the data model allowing it, running with a minimalist engine like Spark, using FreeMarker and he'd be confused.

They work very, very differently once you get past the syntax and get into the how-to-get-shit-done stage.

>>58819457
>C++ just makes it easier.
What? C++ doesn't even have simple type conversion, so you need to implement it yourself. You're better off using Java or C# if you want to make your life easier.

Why do people keep making these threads? Every language is a tool. Each tool has its place. There is no reason to use a hammer to screw something in, just like no reasonable person would use Java for a high performance, system-level library on a Linux/windows os

>>58823165
Not every language is a tool. That's C++ propaganda.

>>58819693
+1. Python is only relevant because some useful C libraries have Python wrappers (like SciPy and NumPy). Python is basically to be used as a condom over C.

>>58817692
Most programming languages are based off of C, it's a good starting point.

C/C++ is something that every programmer needs to know because when you need to squeeze every bit of performance out of your computer there is no other language that you can turn to.

Actually every other language that he recommends is basically syntactic sugar and optional to learn, but I don't think someone can call themselves a decent programmer without knowledge of C/C++.

>>58817655
This is ridiculous. There are still TONS of Microsoft stack shops around.

I'm not advocating M$. I'm just saying that putting C#, ASP.NET, MSSQL and IIS on your resume is still gonna get you hired.

And yes, Java will get you hired, but probably supporting legacy apps at some giant faceless enterprise. Or, you know, Android dev. One or the other.