Redpill me on Python Why does everyone say that it's

Real programmers write everything on one line and you can't do that so it sucks

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Normalfags don't like

  forced
            indentations

>>58287933

wtf

How did you do that?

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>>58287904
Because C++ is more extensible and lower yet can feel higher then py with added libraries.

>>58287904
Python itself isn't for retards. Retards just tend to use Python for things they shouldn't

Who the fuck writes programs with an interpreted language?

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>>58287904
because learning it as a first language is a bad decision because you don't get any knowledge on how the module methods/functions actually work you fucking retard
kill yourself you autistic shithead

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>>58287948

Isn't C++ just "C for retards"?

LE OBJECTS MAKE IT EASY

>>58287904
It's not. People just say that because it's not used in muh AAA video game development for final projects. As far as practical data analysis is concerned, it's a godsend of a language alongside R. For that purpose alone its worth learning.

It's also god tier for drafting up quick presentable, and testable models for any type of project before making a more in depth version in another language.

>>58287955
so what language i learn?

>>58288065

get out newfag

(just joking my friendo :) learn C first)

It's an interpreted language, so it will only run on machines with Python installed. It's also a very easy language to learn and use. That's where some of the resentment comes from in terms of street cred.

However there are also a lot of people who used to love Python but hate Python 3.0 because it made some shitty changes and the backwards compatibility seems to fall between sketchy and non-working. Nowadays it seems like the thing to do is either stick with 2.7 or renounce Python altogether.

It's pretty decent with administration and server automation, and people really like using it for web scraping and crawling.

It's a decent language to have under your belt but don't start with it or expect to be able to use it for everything.

>>58288113
what makes 2.7 better than 3? as far as i know, all libraries to care about have been ported over

>>58288158
familiarity with older libraries

Even though the libraries might have been ported over, people resent having to change/modify their code as it can be a hassle to track down what each of the changes are.

The larger the python work, the more you have to invest in fixing compatibility issues.

>>58287904
It's pseudocode that actually runs.

>>58287904
It's a scripting language that allows you to hack together anything you want. As long as nobody is supposed to work with your code this is fine. So it fits the needs of 99,98% of /g/ desu

>>58288481

dont ever insult /g/ userbase again, do you hear me?

C is just assembly language for retards.

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>>58287953
Google and many other global tech giants.

>mfw /g/ thinks they know everything

>>58287958
>Isn't C++ just "C for retards"?
Yes

>>58288158
Nothing. New python should be written in Python 3..Python 2 is for all the legacy applications in your old corporate enterprise

>>58287904
It's fine for quick and dirty scripts but if you doing any serious programming you want to use a language that's faster than python.
There are lots of things written in python but that doesn't mean it's a good idea to write everything in python.

DUR HUR DAE INDENTATION SUCK

such a terrible argument, if you don't indent things you're automatically retarded and write shit messy code

>>58288822
>I found some scripts on the internet
>just paste and run to check out
>other language: hmm so its working like that
>python: sorry but you pasted it wrong, better edit that before running.

it's even sucker when you running it in repl

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>>58289298
>he doesn't know how to use paste mode in vim
BAKA

>>58287943
Like this I guess:

  forced
            indentations

(just read the sticky, newfag)

Python gets shit done, is easy to learn and forces clean coding, so autists hate it.

>>58289334
>I need editor/IDE support just to paste ten lines of code

>>58289334
>he knows how to use an Ugandan Charity begging software suite.
lel

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>>58289711
>he doesn't know how to install vim

>>58289722
>he doesn't contribute to ugandan charities
baka

>>58289711
You do because vim has automated macros you fucking pleb.

:set paste

>>58288481
Python is more maintainable than C desu

>>58289781
>>58289722

that's still not the fucking solution.
And you keep ignoring about that REPL issue.

Well I guess pythontards are all just like that, just like their funny language.

Lol python 3.6 just introduce a new way to format text, again. So much for "one obvious way to do things"

>>58288113
>making print into a function is a shitty change

>>58288481
All programming languages are scripting languages.

>>58288065
whatever, I started with BASIC/C in school, then had to switch to C#.

honestly, C# / Java and other high level languages they are so much helpful when you just learning algorithms. like you don't have to worry about the language's problems and quirks, you just code. make sure your algorithm works, etc.

>>58289927
> being this salty about a language
Did you fail a py class, or couldn't manage to write your assignment? Where did the snek touch you?

>>58290328
>they are so much helpful when you just learning algorithms
There is Pascal for such purposes.

>>58289298
>>58289334
>>58289711
He copy-pastes code from the internet.

>>58290410
Does not offer easy/interactive debugging, useless.
At least in C#/Java you can debug with one click, modify values on flight, see what caused the problems, etc.

What you need to learn to write correct algorithms.

>>58290533
Don't mix up languages with IDEs.

>>58290410
Python easily replaces oascal for this purpose.

>>58287958
Yes, yet at the same time it manages to be unnecessarily complicated.

>>58290558
A language and an IDE walks hand in hand.
No matter how pimp of an IDE you put under C, you will never have the same power/capability.

>>58290507
>he uses people's libraries

>>58287904
"It's not. People just say that because it's not used in muh AAA video game development for final projects. As far as practical data analysis is concerned, it's a godsend of a language alongside R. For that purpose alone its worth learning.

It's also god tier for drafting up quick presentable, and testable models for any type of project before making a more in depth version in another language."

Even being a newb myself, that gives me reason enough to learn it. Still muddling through the very basics, but I'm hoping once I've reached the end of the book I'll have enough knowledge to do some simple rudimentary things in python. Opinion - you can't go wrong learning any language to start. If you want to jump from Python to something else later, you can. Everyone has an opinion. The thing is to stop listening to what everyone else is saying, and start learning.

Best of luck!

>>58290347
my feeling for python is just like your feeling when you see yourself in front of the mirror. You guessed it right, it's pure disgust. And no, only retards have to learn python in school, here we are teaching pascal and such.

>>58290938
I started with Basic/Pascal and C and that's what we learnt at school as well.
They all proved to be a waste of time.

In Uni we had C++ and Java mostly. We also had Python/Ruby classes.
At my first job I had Java, then C# at the second place.

> b-b-b-b-but muuh C
It's only /g/'s wet-dream.

>>58290533
>Does not offer easy/interactive debugging, useless.
It even offers remote debugging, anon.

>>58290997
For beginners, gdb is not the easiest to learn imo.
(at least clang now made C easier to learn and debug)

>>58287953
People with jobs.

>>58291009
Pretty sure Lazarus has a built-in frontend. Also, Delphi has its own GUI debugger.

>>58290979
I'm using C at my job, it's very common for embedded development.

>>58287904
>redpill
This isn't the matrix you dumb cunt

>>58290979
>>58291057
I'm also using C at my job.

>>58287953
People with meme jobs, mostly:
- web anything
- statistics anything (that includes any form of machine learning and data """science""")
- """scientists""" aka non-programmers
- plebbits that can't into C++ for game engines
- security neckbeards

>>58291072
It is

>>58287958
>Isn't C++ just "C for retards"?

>things people who've never actually programmed anything say

>>58291072
How would you tell?

>>58291149
What if chicken doesn't taste like chicken?

>>58291139
>- plebbits that can't into C++ for game engines


MUH VIDYA GAMES!!!

>>58291139
Literally everyone who wants to earn a decent salary.

>>58291213
>salary
>being employed
Normie scum. Don't touch me you filthy casual.

>>58291205
Well, it's an industry, anon.
Not one I would want to work in, but big enough to make it count.
>>58291213
>web fags
>"""scientists"""
>gayme devs
>decent salary
Even with security fags that often is questionable.

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>>58290938
>pascal

>>58287904

Python is for n00bs.
Don't be a n00b.

>>58291251
Not him, but I used to be a web fag. Made a hell of a lot more than I do now (embedded)

>>58288007
i can confirm this. every prof in my uni loves python but somehow people on the internet seem to hate it...

>>58287948
Perfectly said. This is why I still C++.

>>58290006
get out

>>58288113
>Nowadays it seems like the thing to do is either stick with 2.7 or renounce Python altogether.

Agreed. But I gotta wonder if that's going to mean the eventual death of Python. If all the new work is going into the 3 branch, but everyone stays with 2, then that means everyone is on the dead-end branch, which means it doesn't realistically have a future -- it's kind of like the XFCE of languages.

>>58290938
>here we are teaching pascal and such.

Are you a time-traveling visitor from 1982?

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>>58287904
Python is fine for pet projects that don't need to scale. It's great for small, one off scripts for sysadmin/networking.

But there's a reason that almost no major tech companies use Python for their big projects: deployment sucks ass, Python performance sucks ass, maintenance sucks ass, and having huge projects with it is just a pain in the balls compared to other setups like .net or Java.

>>58287904
Some things that come to mind:
- The OOP aspect of it is incredibly shitty. Magic variables,
- "Pythonism" is cancer. There's tons of annoying things like how there's they removed the sane way to sort collections using comparator functions.
- Its functional programming capabilities are a bit lacking, part of that is thanks to """""pythonism"""""
- No types
- Its default implementation is slower than almost any other common language you might compare it to. And by a huge margin, even other interpreted languages beat it easily.

These are just some things that I as a moderately good programmer remember from python

>>58292370
>no types
Meaning no static types ofc

>>58288007
A lot of AAA games use Python for scripting.

>>58292177
it's about equal to java at being a pain in the balls, neither are first class languages on any platform (unless you count android), meaning it's okay everywhere but always inferior to that platform's native language

>>58292177
A lot of applications does not need a good performance as they are limited by other things.
A good example is youtube-dl.
Downloading a video takes more network time than cpu time.
Converting the videos is done with ffmpeg which is optimized by someone else.
The application is horrible from a programming standpoint.
There is memory leaks, there is no intelligent way to handle the most basic requests and it makes the program very slow if you don't dive into the code and make a lot of changes.
But for most users, it is fine.
Memory leaks in an application that has a short lifespan is not a problem.
And having clunky or even slow application is not a big problem either, but this is more algorithm than language.

Because it's easy to learn. I still use it for ML stuff though.

>>58288564
And assembly is just machine code for humans.

>>58287904
Python is not for retards.
During the 1990's, it was difficult to find enough programmers to implement software projects; developers were asked ti implement systems as fast as the internet evolved. In later eras of layoffs and economic recession, the picture shifted. Programming staffs were often asked to accomplish the same task with even fewer people. In both scenarios, Python has shined as a tool that allows programmers to get more done with less effort. It is deliberately optimized for speed of development - its simple syntax, dynamic typing, lack of compile steps, and built-in toolset allow programmers to develop programs in a fraction of the time needed.

As for speed, some programs will require faster execution by using lower-level languages such as C and C++ because they are more directly mapped to the underlying hardware architecture. Numeric programming and animation are such examples, because they often need at least their core number-crunching components to run at C speed (or better). However, if you work in such a domain, you can still you Python - simply split off the parts of the application that require optimal speeds into compiled extensions, and link those into your system for use in Python scripts.

Python is very powerful, but is often criticized by university-taught programmers at the bachelor level because of how hard they had to work using Java and C++ to often achieve relatively the same effects as Python would and does.

Cite: Mark Lutz

print("fuck you")

Python's stdlib is a mess

Fuck sake faggots there is nothing wrong with python


Consider the following:
>Human time is more costly than cpu time
>What percentage of code you write warrants the optimisation c, (etc) provides?
>If it exists there is a library for it.
>Django / flask and all the other great libs

Python is pretty great and don't forget google uses it heavily as does the scientific community.

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>>58297685
Not just Google, a ton of big tech companies use it. Not only do they use it, they praise it. The only place I've seen that says "python is shit" is /g/, and that's because /g/, like most of 4chan, is pretty angry on the inside.

>>58290644
this is the dumbest thing i've read tonight and i was on reddit earlier

>>58288822
>he never had to switch between IDEs, or even from tab settings
>inconsistent use of tabs and spaces in indentation

>>58288007
>making a more in depth version in another language.
>not a meme

People who need to 'draft up testable models' in a kiddie language are cancer. You're not saving time, you're wasting time. Learn to use a real fucking language so the 'testable model' code evolves into the production code.

>>58293078
>A lot of applications does not need a good performance as they are limited by other things.
You are the cancer that has destroyed IT.

I'm guessing from "does not need" you are also Pajeet.

>print as a function
lmao Python 3

I love it.
>in uni
>help teachers reviewing code from assignments and tests to have some extra money
>the first language that they tech is Java
>retards don't understand indentation
>sometimes 0 indentation
>sometimes a random number of spaces as indentation for each line
>sometimes they oneline everything
>sometimes they do the most weird things I've seen
A couple years ago they changed it to Python, everything is better now.

(define a (expt 2 (expt 2 (expt 2 (expt 2 (expt 2 2) ) ) ) ) )
(define (python n) (if (> n 0) (begin (display "Fuck You!") (python (- n 1)) ) ) )
(python a)

>>58291139
No, I write test scripts for the Mars 2020 rover in Python

>>58298405
Do you know Amdahl's law?

>>58290328
>I started with BASIC/C in school, then had to switch to C#
Most computers that I grew up on came with a set of programming books for basic/VB/C. My TI had a basic manual to learn and then in the 90's got one with a cd rom (caddy) came with encyclopedia and programming manuals. High School and College VB and C were what you learned anyways. Wonder how different it is no compared to the 90's now with all the added bullshit. Too many pajeets or something.

What about PHP then?

>>58299227
bottom feeder nigger shit

>>58287920
But you can.

>>58287933
Being forced to indent makes me hate Python.
It's a pain in the ass.

>>58290533
Writing correct algorithms requires you to think, anon. No IDE helps with that.

>>58287920
Literally the opposite. Real programmers still keep their lines below 80 columns.

>>58292663
no they use lua

>>58287951
good point

>>58287948
>my sides here
Bro, do you ever coded professionally for python? We can write down .c extensions on it.
Nobody gives a fuck about C++ unless you're planning on write down a ripoff game based on the shit source engine from valve.

>>58292177
>mfw instagram is running on Django + PostgresQL + RabbitMQ
go fuck yourself dude.

>>58299626
sounds like you're stuck on the 50 coding with valves

>Le redpill me on [x], fewwo wedditors!
Why have ANY of you stupid faggots responded to this retard?