Why Arch has the reputation to be hard to install? You only need

>>58026181
Because it's harder to do than other distros obviously.

>>58026181
Some people can't figure out how to properly install a DE

>>58026181
In the defence of those people, the wiki was recently updated to remove much of the useful outline from the beginners guide. It's harder than it used to be.

>>58026181
Because people who use Arch have to make it seem like that in itself is a crowning achievement.

Arch is easy to install.
>partition your drive
>mount
>get core packages
>install bootloader
>configure

>>58026717
why would they do this? do they not want more people using their distro?

Why should I bother with all that when I can grab a minimal ISO of any other distribution and just press enter several times?

Linux noob here.
Hardest step to overcome was drive partitioning, cfdisk made it easy mode. Got confused at setting hostname, instructions were unclear. And couldn't quite figure out how to get a desktop environment installed.

6/10 would continue using Ubuntu again.

>>58026181
Only relatively hard, but not actual hard. Its hard to maintain tho.

>>58027136
Because if you did that, you wouldn't be part of the internet secret club of hackers that is the arch community.

>>58027138
>And couldn't quite figure out how to get a desktop environment installed
you got through partitioning but typing in sudo pacman -S was too much for you?

>>58027176
You mean... I wouldn't get (You)s in screenfetch and desktop threads on /g/?!

>>58026181
I recently tried to plug in my laptop to my TV so I can watch movies on bigger screen. Nothing happened when I plugged in the cable so I started to change display drivers and google some commands and packages I might need. I ended up fucking up my X with that which didn't get fixed by uninstalling everything I had done.

I tried to fix X for a while but then I gave up and reinstalled. This time I tried Ubuntu out of curiosity and it was able to connect to my TV out of the box.

I guess I was never really the target audience for Arch.

most of /g/ is weeb niggers and we all know niggers can't read.

>>58027181
Something like that.

I'd completed installing Arch, had my fun, and lost interest.

>>58026998
>Arch is easy to install.
>>partition your drive
>>mount
>>get core packages
>>install bootloader
>>configure

That is verses clicking a few buttons on a gui.
Remember, people are stupid

>>58027236
Yes. Only the hacker known as Arch Linux can create and post in these threads, creating an atmosphere of superiority.

>>58027305
Most of niggers are /g/ niggers and all we weeb can't know read

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>>58027283

>>58026555
What is Gentoo?

>>58026591
>sudo pacman -Syu gnome gnome-extra
>sudo pacman -Syu xfce4 xfc4-goodies
Every DE has a group package that you can install easily.

>>58026181
You did it wrong, for some reason your broken piece of shit computer worked with ethernet or wifi and you were able to install. Most of the time no hardware works out of the box, you need to get some script running so that your keyboard works even when it works fine in BIOS and other shit.

The internet is never supposed to work, neither with ethernet or wifi.

>>58027446
>sudo pacman -Syu xfce4 xfc4-goodies
Patrician's choice.

>>58027454
That's bullshit.
I even used a 3G USB modem, and it worked during installation!
It stopped working once I installed everything, but I figured out how to fix it.

>>58027484
I didn't say I use it.
I'm an i3wm guy myself.

>>58027487
It almost never works and there are never any real help in the wiki for 99.9% of the arch problems you meet.

The mere fact that you need to follow a wiki to install it suggests it is extremely unintuitive for the average person. You already answered your own question.

>>58027496
I3wm for life.
Sure it takes some time to set up but it's unbeatable after that.

>>58026181
Arch is not supposed to be installed manually. Run a script and go drink some tea.

>>58027538
right. people who install Arch tend to fall in one of two categories

already seasoned linux users who want to build an OS from ground up for shits n' giggles

/g/ weebs following youtube intallation guides to fish for (you)s in desktop threads

>>58027572
True.
I just watched these videos and then read the documentation and I set it up nicely.
>https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL5ze0DjYv5DbCv9vNEzFmP6sU7ZmkGzcf

>>58027592
>Arch
>build an OS from ground up
Don't be that guy, anon.

>>58027538
You don't.
>ctrl+alt+f2
>less install.txt

>>58027617
I don't know why people think that you have to build Arch from the ground up
They have binary packages, all you need is to install them!

>>58027635
Where is the install.txt file located?

>>58027642
Whatever directory you start in when you log into another TTY

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>>58027642
cd /
ls -R

>>58027747
or better yet: find / -type f -name 'install.txt'

>>58027347
I think the stupid ones here are those who go for Arch

>>58027766
There is only one requirement to be able to install Arch, not being afraid of text.
It has nothing to do with intelligence.

>>58027106
lol no. Arch is a secret distro for elitists and hackers

>>58027804
true.
linux = lot to learn, not hard to learn.

>>58027440
Antegros is better IMO, I keep a minimal iso on a USB incase I somehow fuck up my arch.

>>58027176
kek

People are lazy. And sometimes dumb. Just watched 3 in my work trying to install Arch and just fucked up because they always get partitions and options configured automatically or with help of GUI installer.

>>58026181
ive installed arch 50 times at least, it is monotonous, would take at least an hour even after all this experience and you cannot ever really leave to go do something else, have to baby it. i finally started making my own collection of bash scripts to deal with everything i do semiautomatically but in the end its still a pain in the ass and i wouldn't ever recommend it. i think the wiki itself is too openended, they list too many options, just in case you wanted to use systemd to turn on wifi instead of the small cli gui utility which is as easy as typing in wifi-menu. i think since you would very likely be performing the same steps in the same order every time, there should instead be a script that installs it all for you with user input like every other "server" options, from ubuntu server to alpine linux to freebsd. there is no reason it needs to be such a pain in the ass just for "simplicity"

>>58026181
you need some implicit knowledge of how the linux desktop works

few or none of the individual steps, as simple as the Arch scripts make them, would make any sense to a new user

Been using arch for a while and I can't figure out how to expand my systems storage but turning a partition into /data. The wiki is for elitists that don't like explaining things in a simple but concise manner and expect the user to know every Linux jargon in existence.

>>58027446
>what is Gentoo?
Nothing but a meme.

>>58029047
>ive installed arch 50 times at least,
>would take at least an hour

>it takes an hour to partition, mount, and download packages even with the experience of having installed Arch 50 times
Unless you have some of the worst internet in the world (in which case, yes, you could leave and go do something else), then you need to get a grip.
It is literally, and I mean literally, no different to installing a new disk and moving some data to it. Does that take you an hour, disregarding file sizes?

>>58029553
maybe you just don't know how much time you actually spend. even downloading at 50 Mbps the entire process will still take upward to an hour give or take 20 minutes. regardless no matter how much faster you can install anything comparable faster other than gentoo

>>58029589
Ten minutes at 50Mbps
Check your mirrorlist, nigger

>>58029589
>maybe you just don't know how much time you actually spend.
Maybe if you're constantly flipping back and forth between the wiki and your installation, then maybe. Definitely if you don't know what you want from your installation.
But if you have good speeds, know the basic Linux commands used, the partitioning software, and you know ahead of time how you are going to slice up your disks, what you want from your bootloader etc., you can be in your new installation within 30 minutes easily.

I spent more time on my last openSuse installation than I did my last Arch installation, and that was installing from DVD.

>>58029681
>>58029685
virtualbox record it niggers, with all the software you use on your finished machines, i dont believe you, speed run it

It's not hard, just time consuming. Haven't got time, too busy shitposting. Manjaro is a good way to do Arch IMHO, YMMV etc.

>>58029726
lol, no
Why don't you speed run it? See how fast you can get it done, then you can see for yourself.

>>58027158
How the hell writing sudo pacman -Syu from time to time translates to hard to maintain?

>>58027283
if you don't know how to use a shell and don't want to learn just don't use it. It takes literally 1 shell command to do what you said

>>58030036
not him, xrandr would accomplish what he is talking about sure. but how is that preferable to plugging it in and automatically working? what are you trying to say

>>58030036
>It takes literally 1 shell command to do what you said

>all that clackety-clackin' when I can be clickety-clickin'

>>58026181
people are idiots anon.

>>58027508
Arch wiki helped me solve problems that weren't even related to linux. If you cant find help there odds ae you wont find it anywhere else.

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> I'll bite
Because no GUI, you have to manually set a GUI and this can go wrong if you haven't a clue wtf you are doing (ie. not setting GUI to boot with machine)
>also most fags come to 4chan using windows
>see "meh arch is best use arch, Ubuntu babies first OS"
> attempt arch install with no linux experience
> tfw how the fuck do i internet
> tfw exception thrown not sure how to trouble shoot
> gets OS installed after 4 hours WTF anon only got a command line interface
> installs Ubuntu
> learns bash, Linux extra
> can now install arch, no hassle
> its a meme

>>58029952
Don't know about hard to maintain but again time consuming. It's when they make changes you have to know about so end up reading a textwall about what to do now they've switched to some new init system or whatever.

>>58027446
Yes, but then once you do

> pacman -S gdm

Everything goes to shit. Suddenly black screens after boot and freezes

>>58030082
you dont need to have a service in the background checking if there is a monitor connected the entire time if most people only use it once a year and if you use it frequently you can automate it too.
Its a matter of control and debloat. Your OS should do what you tell it to do and not try to guess what you might want and fail miserably most of the time, like windows updating, defraging and restarting when you don't want it to.

Arch devs don't give a flying fuck about keeping the system running so long as it's bleeding edge

>delete sysvinit and drop in systemd(isease) with no migration script
>delete /lib (and its contents too lmao) because fuck you this is a symlink now

I could go through on but I'll spare you archfags the misery

>>58030294
If I had a dollar for every time Windows Update breaks remote desktop, I would be Bill Gates

because there's no reason for the extra steps except sperg credit

>>58030303
The symlinks bothered me for a little while too, but there's no reason you can't just unlink and make your own directories in their place.

>>58030204
Something like that hasn't happened in years. But i guess that's the price to pay for a rolling release distro.
But don't forget you have to do that too every time you upgrade the OS in a stable distro.

>>58030349
I never have to read a bunch of stuff to learn how it's going to fuck my system over if I don't read through it all and take whatever actions it's warning me about. I just click "upgrade" and then go and have a wank for half an hour.

>>58026181
>You only need to follow the wiki

You apparently cannot even imagine how hard "follow the fucking written instructions" is for the everyday retard.
Because it is.

>>58026181
It's a way to filter people who lack basic reading comprehension. That includes most of the 4chan audience.

>>58030454
>>58030475
if arch gave me anything, it was a moderate amount of patience and discipline. because of it i learned to read everything thoroughly instead of skimming. reading a book is not the same as reading a manual

This is the mentality why linux is a failed os

>>58030151
>If you cant find help there odds ae you wont find it anywhere else.

Like most problems on Arch, which is why it's a popular tech support simulator. Breaks all the time and demands superior skills to keep running

>>58026181
Because people are fucking retarded.

>>58027283

I do this all the time, literally just use xrandr to switch the output to HDMI or whatever the shit you plug in, it's that easy you could even write a bash script to do it for you if you do it often.

Then you can just use pavucontrol to switch audio output to HDMI too and you're ready to go.

>>58030624
>failed os
>everything important runs it
>dominates the mobile market

Most people would never even attempt to install Windows, let alone Linux.
They just use what ever comes pre-installed on the computer until it becomes too infected with malware function properly which is the main reason Linux never gained a large share of the PC market.

>>58027496
I use i3 on top of XFCE4. How can I get it better? I like the built-in tools and the gui login, but nothing more.

>>58030199
>gui
not using i3? its 2016 anon, tiled window managers are more productive and easier to use

No
Gentoo, Alpine and LFS are hard
Arch is only hard from the perspective of cli babbies

Most people that complain about installing Arch haven't even tried it.

[/fact

>>58034074
How is Gentoo installation hard?

I haven't tried the other two you mentioned but Gentoo was more of the same, following the handbook.

>>58026717
This has to have been one of the most idiotic moves I've seen all year. Why would they possibly do this? They claim it was to reduce redundancy and encourage users to actually read the wiki.
However, one article tying some other articles together in a more presentable and easy to read manner is not redundancy. I'm not sure that they understand Arch Linux is one of the first distros of its kind (namely, one which relies more heavily on the command line, particularly with installation) that a user will try out.
Moreover, my experience with Arch has been "learn about X as I need to." There are many reasons to use Arch, and sometimes one simply does not have the time nor energy to try and understand some general article from which only a few sentences of information are actually relevant to that use. Many other users have the same experience, and Arch itself had already positioned itself in the community as that type of distro, so for them to now come out and refuse that role is very agitating.
"Well then maybe Arch isn't for you."
This response is predicated on an incorrect idea of what Arch has been. They should embrace their role in the community rather than push some alien ideal of who an Arch user should be. I'm all for "RTFM" but they just deleted their install manual in favor of a mere assortment of references.

>>58034342
Calm your tits, the installation guide is perfectly okay for beginners.

Having two installation guides was confusing, and now the information is just a little more spread out over other pages following a more wiki-like structure... It's not about elitism, it's not about anything other than organizing information.

>"learn about X as I need to."
The ONLY thing anyone has to learn about Arch is how to use its package manager. Everything else is not about Arch but about the software it ships.
X11 problems? It's X11's fault, not Arch's
Audio problems? alsa's/pulse's fault
Wifi problems? Kernel's fault
Can't configure program X? Then program X is not intuitive enough for you.

It's NOT Arch's fault.

The wiki has TOO MUCH information regarding every package, every software it has, how to configure them, how to deal with common problems they have. Arch has the best source of knowledge out of all distros, people just like to whine with their mouths full.

>"Well then maybe Arch isn't for you."
Who said this?? Arch isn't elitist, Arch isn't secret club, it helps you learn how to use everything, it holds your hand as you go.
It's just different than other operating systems in that it doesn't have an installer, this triggers the baby duck syndrome in people and they make Arch look like some sort of dark villain, it's not.

To answer this question you need to put each variation of how you could install it into a number of minutes of effort. "Minutes of effort" meaning looking something up or typing, and not idling.

Absolute noob with no linux experience: 1200 minutes
First timer with previous linux experience: 600 minutes ('TISM ALERT!!!!!!)
Second timer: 200 minutes
Hardcore supersperg that knows it by heart: "15 minutes"

Meanwhile Ubuntu is always 0 minutes, no matter how noob or experienced you are. ('TISM^2)

Every benchmark always shows that the "performance gain" is less than the average statistical difference of 5%. Why would you waste exponentially more time to get nothing? The reason is because you are a snowflake just trying to be different and don't really care about linux and because of the autism encouragement culture of what happens when turbospergs meet online; they want to out-turbosperg each other. It also is convenient that if you want to be different, your time is instantly worthless. Unemployables cannot get their head wrapped around this idea of 15 minutes, 0 minutes, 600 minutes, 1200 minutes, or 1.5 million minutes because they have nowhere to be and nothing to do because they have been, are, and always will be losers.

Take the above and apply it to every microcosm of this or any dropout distro and you'll see the same thing: "I don't understand why you say the package manager sucks because it doesn't matter if it takes 4 days for me to read all the mailing list notes about everything breaking and then selectively not choosing packages to upgrade (thereby defeating the point of a package manager in the first place) because 4 days for me is the same as 30 minutes and is also the same as 400 days."

This is why I call autism distros time machines - they teach you to make time worthless because it's the only way you can deal with being a loser for 80% of your time. Death solves all problems and in this case it's an early form of it.

>>58034844
>1200 minutes
>600 minutes
>200 minutes
You must be kidding right?

>to get nothing?
What about you get to learn how to partition you drive, use pacman, change some basic configuration and reboot????
Do you seriously not know how to do those and are not willing to learn?

If you don't know how to play a guitar and are not willing to learn do not expect to be playing it anytime soon...

>>58034844
I'm sorry but you seem to have confused the unit of measurement of time called minutes with the one called seconds.
And no one chooses an OS cause muh benchmark performance.

>>58034696
>The installation guide is perfectly okay for beginners.
>The wiki has TOO MUCH information.
These two are contradictory - the installation guide is just a bunch of links to other articles. The one that got removed was the better installation guide.

>It is NOT Arch's fault.
Yes, unaffiliated software problems are not their fault and I made no claim to the contrary. I did say that linking to general articles on a topic/software is not a guide; it greatly extends the learning process beyond what is necessary.

>Perhaps people just like to whine with their mouths full.
I will complain if I ask for a needle and I'm given a haystack, especially if needles were freely available in the past.

>Who said this? Arch isn't elitist, Arch isn't a secret club.
Perhaps you're unfamiliar with the Arch community. A significant portion of it does exhibit an elitist/"secret club" mentality. As for actual examples of who said this, try finding threads/forum topics with users complaining about the removal of the "Beginner's" install guide.

>Having two installation guides was confusing.
Was it? One was clearly labeled "Beginner's" and the other was much, much shorter, inplying that it was for more advanced users. It was confusing for no one.

arch-anywhere works

>>58034844
i take it you downloaded the arch iso on your iphone and couldn't find the "install it for me" microtransaction button
holy fuck

how often do you guys install a new OS? damn, what does it matter if it takes you a while to figure it out

>>58034958
I do know how to partition a drive, use a package manager, and do configs, but these have all been automated since 2003 and I don't have to anymore.

>>58035136
Yes they instead psuedo-choose it instead because of how hard on purpose it is to impress other internet losers.

>>58035340
because my time has value I am automatically a smartphone user... okay. There's a difference between dumbing things down, and shit that nobody ever wanted to do. You cannot tell this difference because your time fits my model of there being no difference between 1 and 1 million minutes, same for anyone into any dropout distro.

Because hard does not necessarily equate to complex. How is this hard stand.

>>58035833
>but these have all been automated since 2003 and I don't have to anymore.
Okay, so you're lazy, and that's fine. Nobody is forcing you to install Arch. You can use the Arch installers that are out there or you can pick a distro full of automated stuff that will better suit you.

But for the people out there that are not lazy, Arch is good. Some of them actually like that its installation is not automated.

>>58035924
Automation doesn't mean you're lazy, no matter how much your IRC loser culture dictates it does. See: every business that uses linux. Ubuntu, debian, fedora, rhel. not much else. Linux "maintenance" is indeed a 00s thing, except for dropout distros that insist they're superior for staying shit on purpose. Putting "Able to rice obscure tilingwm in 30 minutes flat" on your CV isn't going to get you anywhere because irc channels are not hiring.

Arch installers are one of the funniest most quantum bullshit things there are out there, if you're going to use one, why not just go for a proper distro instead? And if you're not, then all of the internet spergs you're trying to impress will put you right with the "ubloatu noobs" crowd anyway. Most arch turds insist that any installer or sub distro of it that automates it is just as bad as ubuntu or worse because it's enabling other people to think they belong together. This isn't really about technology, it's contrarianism first and computers second.

>some like
Some people like being unemployable that doesn't mean it's a good thing.

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The first half of the installation was relatively easy until I got to the bootloader configuration on my Thinkpad X220. I heard the BIOS only read certain-named .efi files, so I went through that process. The shit didn't boot. At this point I ended up sinking like 2+ hours on the installation and thought "fuck this time-sink OS". Took way too much fucking effort in my case, then I just gave up and installed Debian testing in the end.

The entire time I spent trying to configure Arch I realized I would have had my window manager, web browser, text editor and shit installed on Debian testing-sid, with the same amount of "bleed-edge" and "lightweight resources".

I wanted to be open-minded and ignore the criticisms for Arch and its installer and try it myself. I'll also be honest and say I also did it for the e-peen.

Overall, Arch is an unnecessary distro unless you have a fuckton of free time, hence the neckbeard meme.

>>58034844
>1200 minutes
wew lad

>>58036034
we get it, you have a job, someone hired you, noone gives a shit.

>>58036034
>every business that uses linux
Yes, business shouldn't use Arch. I agree with you, on business time is money, if you can save the 5 minutes it would take to type up some stuff, you should.

But I still have the right to infer you are lazy if we're talking personal computers here and if you know how to partition, use a package manager and do configs as you said, but would still pick a distro based on its automation.

>Arch installers [...] if you're going to use one, why not just go for a proper distro instead?
Yes you are right! I actually told you to pick a distro full of automated stuff if you look closely.

>then all of the internet spergs you're trying to impress will put you right with the "ubloatu noobs" crowd anyway
Sucks for you IF YOU'RE TRYING TO IMPRESS SOMEONE.
If you're not then why do you care?
If you are then aren't these extra minutes at a TTY worth it for you?

>>58036095
So you're judging Arch based on GRUB's installation process for UEFI systems?
Seems awfully unfair to me and sucks to be you if your bootloader ever breaks.

With arch anywhere it's fucking simple

>>58036226
It's simple to get banned from the obscure IRC channel you were trying to fit into, because you're just as bad as using ubuntu, scrub!

>>58036176
These people are trying to impress others, anon. They want you to think they're OH SO FAR ABOVE these AUTISTIC LOSERS on /g/.
I use a minimal netinst with a Rare Window-Manager on one computer, /g/s opinion of me is
>OMG R U -AUTISTIC- OR SOMETHING?!?!?! Y WOULD YOU USE THAT FUCKING LOSER HAHA NEET IM BETTER THAN YOU IM BETTER THAN YOU WWWWWWWW(ﾟ∀ﾟ)
I use a preconfigured automated-GUI-installation-ed mostly stock DE on another, /g/s opinion of me is
>BABBY NOOB RETARD GB2 DOGWANGS/HOMOSEX (´Д｀)
All the trolling has fucked up this boards head beyond repair.

>>58036285
>implying I can't install arch the normal way

Why would I when this is easier and takes just about as long?

>>58036319
The problem is the first end of the scale you presented. It is completely made up faux culture, it never had to exist. Those people aren't into linux, they wanted to pretend to be better than everyone else first and found linux second. Same as someone who pretends to like some obscure band but really doesn't give a shit about music and couldn't name one of their albums. They need their choice to be different from your choice so they can insist and scream that it's better, but you should never ever use it. They don't want you to use it so then you will never figure out it's shit, but ironically tell you to try it, this is why I call it "quantum" bullshit.

The first end doesn't need to exist, absolutely no benefits, no employability, everyone else on the IRC hates you because of the reason I just wrote (they want to be unique). Even if you fit in to an online club, you don't fit in, they will just say oh I use zsh you plebs still use bash? oh I don't use an image viewer I just pipe it out through my DM! etc etc it is a never ending game. 100% toxic, absolutely no benefits or reason for it to exist, it's all just a gay little game for hipsters to out-hipster each other.

It isn't 2005 anymore and a C2D costs $30 so "mainstream" distros have won, soon we will eliminate the contrarians and hipsters as linux gets used too much and they will all psuedo-migrate to BSD and then you'll see them all pretending to use that instead.

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>>58036212
Well, OP's question is in regard to the notoriously difficult installation process Arch possesses. I gave him my opinion on why this is through my own experience with the installer and Arch itself.
Partitioning, installing packages and configuring the locale/etc wasn't extremely difficult, but this doesn't neglect the fact that the entire process is and was just a gigantic time-sink for the same shit you'd find in netinst Ubuntu, Debian or any other distro but with less bullshittery. People constantly brag about how quickly they managed to install it(even in this thread); that should tell you something.

Maybe my opinion of it will change in the future, but as of right now its too much of a hassle to install for it be considered a reasonable distro for normal daily needs of the average user. Like I said, I can only see people with far too much time on their hands or those who need to increase their e-peen size for the Arch forums/desktop threads.

>>58036399
>hipsters to out-hipster each other.
Literally you.
>WELL, you nerds may like ARCH, or VOID, But IIIIIIIM gonna go and use UBUNTU, HA, BETCHA DONT LIKE THAT HUUUH?
>look im superior to others because I Installed my operating system a certain way
>Im employed btw
>did I mention I Have an income, form my job, that I work at??

>>58036399
>oh I use zsh you plebs still use bash?
This is actually software recommendation, not secret club elitism.
You're just looking at it wrong.
zsh -is- better than bash
mpd -is- better than whatever other players there are
arch -is- great

It's all very much objective software recommendation based on it's goodness level for a presumed tech-savvy audience that is /g/.

We're just playfully throwing around our software preferences and you're taking it with malice.

You could argue desktop threads were elitist circlejerks but even there it was just an open community of people customizing their system.

The elitist, "you don't fit in" secret club is literally on the eyes of the "victim".

>>58036448
>>58036212
I'd also like to add that I haven't tried Arch Anywhere, Architect or any other installers because I personally haven't found the need to with Debian suiting my needs. However, the thread is about the installer.

I might change my opinion about Arch alone if I use these installers, but the fact that they EXIST in the first place is just ridiculous.

>>58036319
>>58036399
how many of these people you're talking about aren't just people who are making fun of "these people"?
i'm certain at least some of it is just made up

it just attracts more of the same, as these pretend faggots are mistaken for actual faggots by other prospective pretend faggots

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>>58036572

>>58036611
similar problem, yes

>>58036572
Yes all of the desktop threads are fake, along with all the other websites outside 4chan, all the sub boards of all generic linux websites, there's no trend, it's all trolls.

I do see your idea but the kind of overwhelming evidence is far too much. You can joke around in one thread and say I WAS ONLY PRETENDING TO BE RETARDED! but this is like saying I WAS ONLY PRETENDING TO BE RETARDED FOR TWO DECADES!

By the way, I'd change my stance instantly if you were actually welcome in the IRC circlejerk, you'd at least have that. Every individual sentence is secretly trying to hate against everyone else, the entire thing is a mess. When all the "ubuntu plebs" are gone, they turn inward and hate themselves. Ironically, you can either choose between "extreme" dropout distro haters like myself, but if you actually join these secret clubs, they are going to hate you in a different way. There is absolutely. Nothing. In it for you.

>>58027446
Then you are doing arch wrong, why go for arch in the first place if you are going to install a package.
You want the rep, you walk the walk

>>58036662
i'm not saying such people don't exist, but pretending to act like them doesn't help anyone

i'm not sure which IRC circlejerk you're talking about, i've used arch for 4 years and have not once used any arch-related IRC channels, and if they're terrible, just don't visit them

>>58036682
>You want the rep ...
for the sake of fuck

>>58036520
>"you don't fit in" secret club is literally on the eyes of the "victim".
>secret club is literally on the eyes
>is literally on the eyes
>literally
Fuck you

>>58036853
I do not understand what problem you seem to have with my sentence.

>>58036871
Then stop trying to use fancy words to make you sound smarter. It didn't work.

Is Arch GNU/Linux for you? Only you can answer that. Try it yourself and find out.

TIP: use a spare computer with nothing else on it.

Have fun!

>>58036909
What? Is "literally" a fancy word?

And you stop trying to deflect so you can win this without actually addressing my points. It's.. kind of working.

>>58027138

Why don't you try ElementaryOS? It doesn't get any easier than this.

>>58036956
I'm not the one you responded earlier. I didn't mention it because it doesn't actually matter in this scenario. I was only pointing out your error which you still didn't get after spoonfeeding it to you.

There was no secret club literally on the eyes of some victim. That would mean there's a building hanging on their face. The word "literally" is a correction, meaning "you shouldn't think of this sentence as the obvious way, but the literal way instead". It's not emphasizing, it's correcting.

the installation difficulty or time really doesnt mean shit, you do it once then its done
The only thing that actually matters is the experience of using the operating system. Arch is nice. The AUR with an AUR helper is nice in particular, in my experience.
If you feel like making things look or act some particular way, or enjoy some particular WM for one reason or another, setting things up from a minimal system and configuring a few textfiles is not very difficult, again, you do it once, and its nicer and more convenient than either fucking a DE up the ass till it acts like you want or being browbeaten that your tastes are wrong and you have to do things someone elses way.
If you enjoy ricing extensively thats also perfectly fine and your choice is clear, same for enjoying ricing at any level beneath 'extensively' too.
And if you want what a desktop enviornment does, install and use that. Its fine.
Its fucking fine. Its your preference and you should do what you'd prefer the most.

>>58035833
I don't care how hard a distro is to install, just give me a better one that doesn't install crap that i don't want or auto configs stuff that isn't necessary. Because up until now arch has been the less time consuming distro to me, that is due to the fact it takes more time to uninstall stuff i don't want and find the configs i don't like than to do everything myself from the beginning.
And i don't care about sekret klubs, e-peens or any of that shit.

>>58034301
How do you follow the handbook in choosing use flags and kernel compile options optimized for your particular machine?

>>58034696
Actually it does have an installer. Arch Anywhere. Look it up.

>>58037042
It is never a finished job, it explodes on updates, memes don't exist for no reason, and it's also why nobody uses it as a server. Half the users don't upgrade to avoid this and then it quickly becomes older than the debian they make fun of for being old, and the other half just reinstalls, but hey you know it by heart so it takes 20 minutes... only 5 more than ubuntu, not bad right?

It's perfectly fine if you want to pretend it can do whatever, but the other factor in this is you keep "ironically" recommending it each and every time we have a newbie thread. Then they will never try it again no matter what. Literally (apologies to the grammarfag) all of the journalist "linux isn't ready for the mainstream yet" is very much every time a dropout distro, you can almost hear some invisible sperg psuedo snickering at how he thinks he's protected the club when they actually go use slackware or arch.


>>58037090
>>58037042
There is absolutely, positively no benefit to using a dropout distro, and really believing very hard that there *is* a speed difference there doesn't make it real and is not a reason, except to you. Also, thinking you need to uninstall stuff is exactly in the same category of psuedo manufactured reasons. It might make a difference on a P4 but this is why I said C2D's are $30. There is no benefit.

The Apple Macbook Pro with Retina Display doesn't have this problem.

>>58034696
He is probably referring to the autism centre, aka arch wiki. their faq page is almost 90% questions ending in "perhaps it is not right for you". which means "we think we're better than you"

>>58037230
Archbang also comes with installer

>>58027592
>fish for (you)s

have a deserved (you)

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>>58037238
>it explodes on updates
It's actually extremely stable and IN CASE there's an update that changes thing in a major way it gets published on their website beforehand and they tell you in detail why it's needed, what will change and how you can fix things in case they break.
Debian/Ubuntu actually have a lot more problems with updates with their weird ass dependency issues.

>nobody uses it as a server
Said you.

>Half the users don't upgrade to avoid this
Nice statistics, did you get this from the "package popularity contest" aka telemetry? Oh wait, that's debian.
Most Arch users take pleasure in updating and getting newer software.

>becomes older than the debian they make fun of for being old
It's funny for a reason.

>"ironically" recommending it
Arch doesn't get recommended ironically, it's legitimally a great distro for everyone with an open mind.

>Also, thinking you need to uninstall stuff is exactly in the same category of psuedo manufactured reasons
LITERALLY laughing my ass off.
When you buy your Windows prebuilt computer do you leave Power2Go, Norton Antivirus, Samsung HelpDesk App and demo games installed?
Sorry I get you, your computer is FAST and STRONG so no problem leaving these there, it won't make a difference, you're right.

>>58037238
More installed/running software means more stuff to update and less security due to the larger attack surface, that gets even worse when you don't even know the software you are running.
A C2D is 30$ but a better internet connection (for updates) would cost me more 400$ per year.

>>58027347
>verses
>people are stupid

>>58037417
There it is right there:
>they tell you in detail on the website
So you have to spend hours reading. You don't see this as an issue because your time is worthless. A "package manager" that requires you to read a website has failed its job. No other non-dropout distro has this problem, or has had for 10 years.

>>58037496
This is the same excuse BSD spergs use as to why there's no software available for their distro. We don't use dial up anymore, there is supposed to be a device between you and the internet called a firewall.

so you're on a metered connection, therefore DSL is the best because it's the smallest. also if there was a distro that chopped out browsers, and all its software, that would be the best because it is a small download. might as well chop out all the drivers too. Ubuntu sucks because it is larger than 100mb. this is what I meant by "manufactured reason", it's when someone stops you and asks why it's better then you make up some shit like this.

So I'm actually colorblind, every single color except for orange, and that's why I picked ubuntu, it has nothing to do with anything else. is essentially what this is like saying.

>>58037238
>It is never a finished job, it explodes on updates, memes don't exist for no reason,
They often do. My arch hasnt broken once, and I update it regularly.
My debian has "broken" more than arch. Meanwhile, arch is just as easy to use as debian but has more software because AUR.
Noone actually reccomends arch to newbies, either. They generally caution that it'll require them to read and learn shit, and that manjaro/antergos is available if they want.
You speak like someone I know who's a schizophrenic NEET.

>>58026181
Learn to install it once, and you basically have it down. I love arch.

>>58037882
More like install it once make a clonezilla and never need to install again

>>58037718
>So you have to spend hours reading
They post something maybe twice a year and the possibility of a dangerous upgrade is extremely remote, about the same chance for any distro out there, except Arch is prepared for it.
You can use pacmatic, a wrapper for pacman that checks the Arch News before upgrading and it does some other neat stuff.

Learn about the object before insulting it.

>Using it is pretty simple. Just type pacmatic instead of pacman. It will perform some introspection on the calling arguments, pacman.log and the Arch news feed. If you do something foolish, it will tell you.

>It helps you avoid four common mistakes. First, it adds a tiny RSS reader. The Arch Devs will routinely announce major compatibility breaks on the Arch feed, and it is stuff you really should see before updating. Disseminating information rapidly and effectively will be an essential role for the next generation of package managers, and I for one would prefer pacman to stay ahead of the curve.

>Second, it alerts you if people have been talking about the packages you have installed. In about a second it scans Arch General for any emails talking about the packages you have installed, tallying and sorting the matches.

Does your Ubuntu do this?
Didn't think so.
If an update screws you, you won't know and when you have problems you'll have to dig around the internet asking why.

Arch is stability and upgrade-safety king. Prove me otherwise without resorting to "muh X11"-tier memes without fundament.

>>58037834
I certainly get the feeling that debian broke more for you than arch because the former isn't tailored towards drop-out "tinkerers" who think they know better than distro maintainers.

>>58037952
Even if this is true it still goes back to my example of when I started posting in this thread.

twice a year is more than 0 times a year and no other distro has this problem. By the way, the only way this model works is that other people updated and had their shit break first. How many people does it have to break for this pacmatic to detect it as a problem? How many people had it break and then just give up and never report to arch news? (They probably switched to a proper distro.) The answer is it is more than 0 and therefore too much since no other distro has this problem.

The fundamental way the arch/dropout-distro argument goes is like this: "If I am really really good at linux then my maintenance time gets exponentially close to 0." But every other distro is already 0, with no work. There is no benefit.

>>58038152
>break
Updates don't "break" anything.
They can bring software changes that affect your configuration files, that's what "break" is and has always been.

Is any distro exempt from this??
And of course the devs are going to know if a software changes in a major way, are you actually retarded?

As an addendum to >>58038253

By "affect your configuration files" I mean, for example, 'hostapd has dropped WEP support' so all WEP-related configs become invalid. Essentially breaking wep-users' stuff.

>>58038297
deliberately dropped features is not the same thing as unintentionally broken features

>>58038330
Yes they're not, and there are no unintentionally broken features getting rolled into Arch users that are not subscribed to the testing repository.

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>>58038152
>I certainly get the feeling that debian broke more for you than arch because the former isn't tailored towards drop-out "tinkerers" who think they know better than distro maintainers.
Not really. One day the package manager just started taking an extra few minutes every time to handle some error with MPD and systemd that it had to process every single time it did anything, and tell me about how it failed every time, until I disabled the service.
I didnt even use MPD, I just had it installed.
really, though
>"the former isn't tailored towards drop-out "tinkerers" who think they know better than distro maintainers."
This probably applies to me, for you, because I use some WM and shit instead of GNOME. On debian at least. My arch is mostly stock KDE that I dont really adjust alot.
>"If you use your computer any way other than the way *I* say you should, you're a LOSER, lol"
>"stop liking what I dont like"
Drink bleach faggot.

>>58038330
The only "feature" that was unintentionally broken for me is Wayland and this is mostly nvidia's fault

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One of my favorite things to do is to imagine an arch or dropout distro user explaining his day after he has tricked himself into forgetting what time is, and has specifically destroyed all the clocks.

-What if you also barred all the windows so you couldn't see the sun?
-What if you destroyed all the mirrors so he couldn't see his reflection and see how he has aged?
-What if he didn't have/pay for TV and chose not to read internet news?
-What if you broke off all social contact so you couldn't get this information (given) ?
-How do you define minute, day, week etc.

They do some of these at casinos to keep you inside for longer than you intended. What happens when you choose to turn your house into this forever?

Also, can you get the computer to run without time? You'd have to secretly have it because too many things wouldn't work like none of the ssl certs. What happens if the cmos battery dies and it's turned off (due to having to reinstall cuz u distro broke olololololololo!!!!!!!) and then the time is wrong and you have no idea what to set it to because of the above. What happens then? Anyway, this is not a valid excuse to pretend that it's okay that you have to read hours and hours worth of shit to update.

>>58038330
>>58038349
>>58038359
is this what happened when they updated to systemd?

>oh we don't support whatever we had anymore just reinstall lolz

>>58038440
the switch to systemd was seamless for me

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>>58038426
I see you have nothing left to say but empty trolling.

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>>58038357
>>58038511
>>58038297
>>58038426

All arch users must watch "Dead Man's Switch".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_Man's_Switch_(The_Outer_Limits)


literally glorifies being an outcast. you will enjoy

>>58038573
>If you use Arch GNU/Linux, YOU ARE A:
>NEET
>autist
>Drop-out
>'outcast'
do paedophile next

>>58038297
>WEP user

That's literally not better than using no security at all.

how do you follow a wiki when your computer is installing a OS?

>>58039484
on your phone, duh.

I mean there's also Links but that's...no.

>>58039509
>on your phone
how do you surf the web on a vtech?

>>58039531
By having a decent phone and not a piece of shit

>>58039548
nice projection sweetheart

>>58039582
>projection


I'm not sure you know what that word means

>sweetheart

And a guy shouldn't say that to another guy not even if gay

I do not understand why distros like Arch or even Gentoo cannot offer guided GUI installations for those who have an interested in getting the performance advantages each operating system may provide.

You may say "because GUIs are bloated". And to that I say "so what?". The installer doesn't have any effect on the computer once the process is done.

>>58039690
secret club

>>58026717
>Delete the wiki that actually explains to the user what they're doing
>Praise wiki that has idiots blindly typing in commands to a terminal without any idea what they're doing

Wow, sounds like this guys are really out there to save computing.

>>58026839
I actually put off installing Arch for a long time for this reason, but once I actually tried and did it, it didn't really feel that hard.

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>>58026181
Just use Antergos.

They no longer support x86, tho.
>Why is that a problem? Only poorfags has old machines? XDD

1, Calling a distro "For everyone!" implies its literally for everyone.
Having no x86 support contradicts their own motto.

2, There are newer x86 machines.
It's not about money or age.

But otherwise it's a very decent distro.
I used an older minimal install disc and it's still great.

>>58026181
The only people who get anything done using arch are the people who don't find installing it difficult. Half these "Omg I just install arch it's spool good" fags will go one week, break it by mistake and go back to Ubuntu.

>>58040218
>Half these "Omg I just install arch it's spool good" fags will go one week, break it by mistake and go back to Ubuntu.

Can confirm.
This is gonna be me.

Already can't fix shit.

>>58040207
Such a nice background.

But what is it with the filters and blurry backgrounds? Every time someone types screenfetch to show off their ricing, it's gotta be a unfocused image passed through a filter.

>>58030294
It's not a service which polls for new monitors, your GPU will generate an interrupt when a new monitor has been plugged in.

I am downloading arch linux now.
Praise Kek

>>58027347
we prefer "efficient"

>>58026181
Because some people have the need to update everytime they can, not using common sense and googling if there may be some problems with new packages etc.
People who are too retarded to manage their shit are usually the ones who haven't installed something properly and then say "boo hoo, it crashes so often and is unstable. I also have 200 buggy/useless programs installed, why does everything go wrong when I do pacman -Syu ;("
You just have to manage your shit properly and it will be as stable as most other distros

>>58037834
>manjaro
shit with it's own repos that lag behind official ones
>antergos
nice gui install, then it's arch only (just don't tell on the arch board)

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>>58026181
stupid question time: is there a guide to install arch with runit instead of systemd? i want something light and simple for my laptop, with none of that poettering cancer and a light de like xfce or lxqt

>>58026181
The effort does not justify the end result. You gain nothing, no superiority over Windows or other distros. It just makes your e-peen 2cm longer and then you realize your piece of shit OS can't do anything productive. So you go back to Windows and use Arch in VM just to shitpost in desktop threads.

>>58042203
>no superiority over Windows
Does Windows support FS snapshots or FUSE yet? don't think so.
>other distros
Plenty of advantages over other distros.
>your piece of shit OS can't do anything productive
I'm using Arch precisely to be productive.

>>58040778
There are wallpapers and dank papes.
After years of training, you will feel the difference.

>>58042023
yeah, download runit sources, compile, and add init=/sbin/runit-init to your GRUB entry of your kernel.


Note: You may need to write some initscripts :^)

>>58030452
Legitimately every time I've had a dist-upgrade in Ubuntu it's broken something. I've only ever had Arch break once, during the SysV -> systemd move

>>58026555
Harder than most. And yes, this is the obvious answer, I don't know what kind of answer OP is looking for when the correct one is so obvious.

>>58034844
I'm probably just responding to a copypasta but whatever

I use Arch because it's a lot quicker for me to set it up how *I* want it than to strip down Ubuntu and build it back up to get the same thing, and I know how the system is built because I did it. I don't think that Arch is particularly faster than baseline but Ubuntu is definitely slower due to all its background services

Maintenance is literally pacman -Syu every week. Ubuntu updates regularly break things, Arch doesn't

Also like all the software you ever need is in the AUR, not some random guy's PPA

>>58027106
It was because there was so much overlapping information and they wanted to combine the two. It's still kinda work in progress though.

They also wish people would take the steps from install guide and expand on what they don't know or are unsure on how to do by reading the specific articles on that issue. For example, instead of giving the generic terminal command, they want people to look up the information and find out the answer that way.

As of now, it's a bit of a mess. The ease of beginners guide is gone and now it's a bit of a hassle to find what the proper commands and whatnot are. Though I guess it results in a more knowledgeable user base and in the end to a better install guide, as of now it's really time consuming and confusing for beginners to install, even compared to how it was before.

>>58035833
>I do know how to partition a drive, use a package manager, and do configs, but these have all been automated since 2003 and I don't have to anymore.
Knowing what you want isn't automated. A GUI still has to ask you questions, it's the same amount of effort with less complexity to just tell a CLI what you want. Plus you'll know how to do it if you need to do so in a non-installation context. The obvious stuff already is automated (eg. aligning sectors). If you're too retarded to know how to partition a drive look up a guide - hint: a single ext4 / is fine in most cases

The stages of an Arch install:
>Set up filesystems
>Download and install packages and bootloader
>Add users
>Reboot

The stages of an Ubuntu install
>Set up filesystems
>Download and install packages and bootloader
>Add users
>Reboot

Out of interest, if you needed to stop a daemon, I take it you'd be forced to use Synaptic to install babby first service management GUI because typing one command that means "please stop this daemon" is too hard

>>58042023
I don't mean to patronise you if you genuinely have, but are you sure you wouldn't be fine with systemd? It's really not bloated at all - in general I've found systemd-based systems to have better performance than any others

>>58044059
i've been interested in runit for a while, but i can't seem to install void linux for some reason, always gives me an error during installation. i use ubuntu on my server and antergos on my laptop, so i'm quite used to systemd. it does all i need, indeed, it's the philosophy behind it i have a problem with

>>58026181
thinking about a fresh start with parabola coming off trisquel. would be nice to be as lean as possible. any freedom here?

>>58043914
You are leaving out a lot of steps on purpose because time is worthless for you. You might as well dumb the list down to:

>Install distro Y
>install distro Z
>it was both one step

God you dropout distro users really cannot understand time at all. How much time did it take for you to learn all that shit by heart? it doesn't count if it only takes 15 minutes if you've had to do it 30 times before you got here. "training" yourself to forget about time is not a valid reason of leaving it out of anything you talk about.

I wouldn't want to stop a daemon because it's necessary. I'm sure arch is superior because it panders to autistic pieces of shit who think that they know better than distro maintainers by turning off processes that the system says they need. arch is a containment distro.

>>58044059
I said this in another thread - anti-systemd shits don't know what an init system is, at all, and they've been fooled into thinking that they're distro maintainers making decisions that affect everyone else. Nobody ever has a specific reason and just says "oh I just disagree with it". Complete meme.

>>58044489
>>God you dropout distro users really cannot understand time at all. How much time did it take for you to learn all that shit by heart? it doesn't count if it only takes 15 minutes if you've had to do it 30 times before you got here. "training" yourself to forget about time is not a valid reason of leaving it out of anything you talk about.
>Memorising 'fdisk' takes 30 minutes
I take it 'cat install.txt' is also too advanced for you?
>>I wouldn't want to stop a daemon because it's necessary. I'm sure arch is superior because it panders to autistic pieces of shit who think that they know better than distro maintainers by turning off processes that the system says they need. arch is a containment distro.
>Exiting applications is now an advanced procedure
I take it you've never exited one of those applications running in the system tray, because obviously Windows has a good reason for starting them? Why the fuck aren't you using Windows if you're so afraid of telling your computer what you want it to do?

>>58044489
>arch is for autistic pieces of shit
wtf you already did autist do paedopile like I asked pls

>>58044489
>autistic pieces of shit who think that they know better than distro maintainers by turning off processes that the system says they need
Good grief.
>download GUI installation distro with a desktop enviornment for my desktop
>go into the gui settings for background services
>tell it to stop running 'touchpad'
>HEY, THE ~DISTRO MAINTAINERS~ SHIPPED THAT WITH THE OPERATING SYSTEM, YOU THINK YOU KNOW BETTER THAN THEM???? THE OS SAYS YOU NEED THAT, YOU THINK YOU KNOW BETTER, HUH, HUH??? AUTISTIC PIECE OF SHIT!!!!!
>*Kicks u thru the wall* BANG BANG BANG!!! *shoots you DEAD*
if its really such an enormous insult to you, such a slight against your honor to have to install from the command line, you can just use arch anywere or manjaro or something. Its not like the purpouse of arch is the fucking install process. You can do a minimal install of debian or ubuntu. Its usually the AUR.

>>58026998
you missed a bunch of steps anon

arch-anywhere

>>58039690
Arch or gentoo doesn't give you better performance over other distros, they offer you more control over your computer. Then you can use that control to gain performance, automation, security, stability or any other thing. If you don't know how to fine tune these things just go with another distro as most of them already have a very good balance provided by the devs and don't require you to do anything.

>>58037718
You know that hole-punching in firewalls is pretty easy right?
idk if you are colorblind but you surely suffer from retardation.

>>58044489
That training you are talking about is something you should already have if you have a linux related job. And anyone with half a brain can install arch in 15 min even if they never used linux before.