>Team displays their hard work on recreating the way a pr

>>>/v/

>lifelong environmentalist and lover of natural life doesn't think a computer simulation of life is very good

STOP THE FUCKING PRESS

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Eastern philosophy is all trash, Miyazaki has always been a moral coward.

Lol what a stupid fucker

>>57966674
>>>/a/

>>57966729
>>57966674
I too am enlightened by my own intelligence.

>We humans are losing hope in ourselves
Yeah especially you, you old luddite FUCK

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>>57966674
Emulating pain is an interesting challenge though.

>>57966813
>luddite

You do know that the Luddite's were mechanics and artisans, and their hatred of the factories was due to the foreseeable inhumane treatment of the workers inside them, right? They weren't dumb farmers who just hated new things.

And what do you know, it soon became a regular occurrence that children would lose limbs and overseers would abuse the workers.

>>57966813
So you're saying he's right?

>>57966858
That's all very interesting, but I was using the term for its modern, broader meaning:
>one who is opposed to especially technological change

>>57966674

>animator doesn't like automation of his job
what a surprise

>>57966674
>Computer nerds spend 4 hours on a shitty AI that looks like an embarrassing codejam project
>Show it to a famed animator
>Get dumpstered because they half assed a stupid idea
While both sides are acting like dumb children, the 3d model was absolutely half-assed and garbage.

>>57966907
Not all change is good, neither is advancement.

The NSA and GCHQ have revolutionary tracking, cross-referencing, and encryption-breaking software, yet everyone hates it.

And /g/ itself opposes the consolidation of the internet in to a nearly channel-like app model rather than the connected documents model, yet no one considers that ludditery.

>>57966983
not him, but stop trying to conflate those issues with Miyazaki's bullshit neo-ludditery

>>57967027
Explain why this is a benefit to the world.

>>57966911
He is retired and they should show something nicer to him, not a fucking horror. Everybody know he is butthurt, but still a legend.

>>57967058
It's not harmful and it's interesting to watch, no reason to be against it

>>57967058
I don't care about this specific case enough to argue for it, but it is clear that Hayao thinks he has special wisdom that supersedes real knowledge and progress. Knowledge and progress built on the back of technology. Humanity has been the slave to traditional morality and 'wisdom' far too long. The Western empirical mindset has been the only liberator of humanity, I have zero time for Hayao nonsense.

>>57966674
Truth be told their animation is cocks. I bet their "artificial intelligence" is just a genetic algorithm. We had that shit 20 years ago

https://youtu.be/F4asE2JdSOY
http://www.karlsims.com/evolved-virtual-creatures.html

>>57967119
Everything you said is "we are great because we are good" tier.

>>57967119
the idea of having my son grow up in a world where he's not useful, it not a thought i want

ai is gaining traction on the "easier" jobs, how long until they can do any job, cheaper than any person

we're killing our own planet, and alot of people don't seem to understand this


there is a certain wisdom that comes with age, technology is nice, but we need to limit how much we come to rely on it for humans to remain relevant

>>57966951
agreed, but if anything their mistake was wasting everybody's time, while only one was acting like a bitch

>>57967058
they same could be said of anything made for entertainment

The point is, why is it an aberration against life?
Why shouldn't peopl make it?

checkm8 /a/

>>57966674

oh my fucking god, i'm laughing my ass off, this is more brutal than the fatalities in mortal kombat

the guys are all proud to show off their work and he fucking tells them "i strongly feel that this is an insult to life itself"

goddamnit i'm crying over here

apart from that hilarity, what the fuck is wrong with that guy bringing his tarded friend into this. it's just a fucking computer program that learns retarded walks. he should really shut the fuck up. i have no idea who this guy is but i'm getting the impression he thinks he's hot shit but is actually a fucking boring, mean cocksucker that everyone hates

>>57967119
>real knowledge and progress
>Knowledge and progress

You don't actually know what you're defending do you? You're just spouting buzzwords.

Maybe a man who's been alive for seven decades has learnt something in that time?

>Humanity has been the slave to traditional morality and 'wisdom' far too long

>-Aalewis

>The Western empirical mindset has been the only liberator of humanity

Liberation from what? Drudgery? We still have that you just made someone else do it. Humanity hasn't been freed from shit.

>>57967129
>that ending
who /girls/ here?

>>57967137
Only a person ignorant of history would take issue with my anti-relativism, though please list your examples of non western democratic and scientifically orientated cultures.

>>57967150
It is called education, if you don't want your son to be useless then it is up to you to elevate him. AI being able to do easier jobs means that higher opportunities open up for humanity. We are not killing our planet, the planet will survive no matter what we do, however we do risk our survival if we do not adapt better technology. Deep green ecology and other spiritual nonsense helps no one, Hayao is nothing more than a mindless moralist.

>>57967243
I am talking about epistemology. Hayao is an artist, art often has little to do with truth.

I did not make the claim that we have reached total liberation, I am making a comparison to traditional societies. Our you honestly going to argue that we are not more free today than centuries ago, than before the enlightenment, and we the church had a monopoly on morality. Your adolescent cynicism brands you an idiot.

>>57967237
His point was that his friend moved in such a way because he was in pain and limited by his illness, and there's a sense of humanity to that. The guy says "this think moves as if he can't move anything but his one leg but it's because we made it that way lol" and you can see what the difference is, and why he called it an "insult to life."

There's a degree of callousness towards making something disabled just because you think it would be good to see.

>>57967150
These people (now it's my turn to be insulting) can't see the the world past their screen. They believe that all of this is free and doesn't come at a cost. For all their talk of what the future holds they never actually think about it outside of consumerism. That this entire display is sold as "good for a video game" shows how deeply set this thought is.

>>57967237
>bringing his tarded friend into this
I do empathize if it left him a bad taste in his mouth
But exactly the same could be argued about war games, zombie games, GTA, PimpAHo games, anything that portrays real life missery

>>57967150
>>57967243
>>57967137
>>57966983
>>57967058
Hey, let's go full UNABomber any day of the week, but this is animation
You can make a solid point about modern work ethics, overpopulation, globalization, social anxiety and all the modern evils. If you want, even complain about the vidya I mentioned above twisting people's mind

But this is an old guy who got triggered over procedural animation

>>57967360
>anything that portrays real life missery
/pol/

>>57967345
>These people (now it's my turn to be insulting) can't see the the world past their screen. They believe that all of this is free and doesn't come at a cost. For all their talk of what the future holds they never actually think about it outside of consumerism. That this entire display is sold as "good for a video game" shows how deeply set this thought is.

Nice strawman. My pro modernity argument is far more vast than mere consumerism, what I said is centered on truth and morality.

>>57966817
Just emulate something that says "AOOO AOOO" and make a painful expression whenever sensors reach a certain treshold.

voila... It's as far as anyone can theoretically come to emulating pain.

>>57967345
>For all their talk of what the future holds they never actually think about it outside of consumerism. That this entire display is sold as "good for a video game" shows how deeply set this thought is.
I would backtrack a lot of "progress" if I could, but it's very comfy of you to forget they are struggling for their job and status
Of course they want to convience their bosses their resreach (and workpay) is a viable consumer product

I wish we all could live off free software, but you kids aren't going to a good school unless you embrace the zeitgeist and become a functional cog

>>57967397
I don't follow

>>57967260
>democratic
Republic, not democracy.

>and scientifically orientated cultures.
White people didn't invent science. And whether you think it was the Classical or the Arab world that invented algebra we wouldn't have computers without it.

>It is called education, if you don't want your son to be useless then it is up to you to elevate him
Well since you've got such a great plan, where will your son be elevated to? I guarantee you it wont be a place outside the reach of being replaced by a machine.

>AI being able to do easier jobs means that higher opportunities open up for humanity

Such as?

>We are not killing our planet, the planet will survive no matter what we do

In a form worth being "alive"?

>however we do risk our survival if we do not adapt better technology

Why not just use less? Why take the risk? And what kind of "better technology"? Do you have any idea? You're really not selling me on this gamble.

>>57967419
>It's as far as anyone can theoretically come to emulating pain
>implying pain is anything but an uncharted mathematical feedback structure
we just need time

>>57967444
>>AI being able to do easier jobs means that higher opportunities open up for humanity
>Such as?
The racewar will be unprecedented

and we can all take turns to nuke off chuncks of Australia

>>57967406
> what I said is centered on truth and morality.

Modernity is making large amounts of people work in sweatshops on the other side of the work so you can amuse yourself with what they make. Would you consider that moral?

And calling it a strawman doesn't make it so. You're only pro-modernity because it benefits you. If you're some Chinese farmer yanked off the land and thrown in to a factory you wouldn't be for modernity at all.

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>>57966674

I don't see how it's an insult to life. It's not meant to represent life or pain or anything.

He's making a LARGE assumption that all life experiences pain too.

All he see's is his personal view on the elegance of life being shattered and shown to be the primitive blob of barely cognitive functions it really is.

Then proclaims that it's due to our lack of faith in ourselves that life is like this.

He may as well have said it's an insult to God with how stupidly superfluous his remarks were.

>>57967085

No he's just unhappy that this is threatening his "Mozart" status of whatever weeb franchise of animation he comes from.

He pretty clearly feels this is an attempt to replace people like him. It's not so much an insult to life but he just feels it an insult to his ego.

>>57967444
>republic
democratic republic, one that is far more democratic than 'democracies' of ancient Greece.

>White people didn't invent science.
Reading comprehension, I did not say they did. I am saying that Western society is the only one that embraced scientific values, maybe if Baghdad was not sacked by the Mongols the Arab world would have introduced the enlightenment.

>Well since you've got such a great plan, where will your son be elevated to?
Do you expect me to predict the future decades in advance? I would push him to have a strong general background of accumulated knowledge and push him to the edge of a specific field.

>Such as?
More capital for hard problems such as clean energy, better food, more accurate understandings of reality, ect

>In a form worth being "alive"?
Do you get out often? We have issues with the environment but our would is not some desolate wasteland because of technology.

>Why not just use less?
Because the trade-offs are worth it and there is much we can ameliorate

>>57967150

>we're killing our planet
hardly

>muh son won't be useful
then make him useful, evolution is adapting to change. Humans are still far better at adapting to change than machines, and likely always will be.

>>57967581
/g/ moans about "Pajeet" TAKIN OUR JERBS all the time, a guy does the same thing with his job and a computer and he's the only idiot.

>>57966817
Biological life forms need pain because they're prone to go extinct if too many of them die. AI, on the other hand, we can just let them die until they learn not to die. Eventually, an biological-like AI will learn that
>cuts and bruises = BAD
No need to emulate actual pain.

>>57967469
Even with time it is the maximum we can theoretically do even if we had a billion years or more.

The only scientific evidence that pain exists and the only physical manifestation of pain is that creatures make loud noises, try to avoid the source of pain and make faces. That is the maximum possible simulation of pain we can do in theory. It is the only simulation where you can check if someone is in pain, by measuring noises and faces people make.

Most of you are missing the point. It's not the technology that's the problem so much as the autistic callousness of the devs who thought it'd be cool to showcase their work with a ragdoll human body to an old man. They could have done this with some elegance and used some abstract or alien bodies for their AI to then learn how to move, but like stereotypical millennials they don't know the meaning of class or taste.

The shit they showed is something you'd see between devs who don't give a shit and would switch out and discard as the placeholder that it is as soon as they had a real model to test it on, not something you'd take with you to any sort of meeting with managers, bean counters, or artists.

>>57967618
>then make him useful

And once again even the defenders of this can't actually name a secure future.

>>57967520
The people working in Chinese factories have better quality of life than those working off the land. Why do you think people have left rural communities in droves? Why do you think famine is rare now in China? Why do you think life expectancy has been increasing every year in China? Do you just spout shit all the time without ever looking at the data.

>>57967664

It's not meant to be, it's just survival of the fittest. Even in the time we're living in now you aren't even close to being guaranteed a good life.

You don't just get a free pass in society to live securely AND to a high standard. You have to contribute something or be born into above average wealth.

>>57967664
Technology is lowering the cost of survivability so rapidily that by the time your son grows up the necessities will be trivial to acquire. I am not here to solve your existential crisis

>>57967734
>You don't just get a free pass in society to live securely AND to a high standard.

Unless you're boomer.

Also define "fittest" in this post-human world.

Read "Industrial Society and it's Future".

>>57967762
but the only good parts are on leftists and over socialization

>>57966858
Children would lose limbs and die all the time with farming

>>57967641
>Eventually, an biological-like AI will learn that
>>cuts and bruises = BAD
>No need to emulate actual pain.
Wouldn’t that be actually the very definition of pain? Something our brain considers as being bad and so it sends us a very unpleasant feeling as a signal telling us “don’t do that, it’s bad for you”?
In my opinion it would be pretty much the same, sure it is very unlikely to be the same kind of pain as ours, but it still might be some sort of pain.

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>>57967757

>Boomers
Early bird gets the worm, first person to the table will take the most food. Unless you want to impose communism or social marxism then that's how it will always be. If you as an authority dictate who gets resources then the system has already failed and you'll eventually approach a totalitarian state.

The only thing that works is the fittest see to it that those beneath them are well fed out of kindness rather than necessity.

If humans are so fucking shit that the titans of industry can no longer hold them up, then the answer is to start trimming the fat or marginalizing it.


>Define fittest
Most likely to survive and mate

>>57967150
A planet with 8 billion fucking people is just not sustainable lmfao

>>57966674
>""""""""""""""""""""AI""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
>>>/v/
go

>>57967237
you are post is intelligint

You think Miyazaki was attacking the fact technology exists, retard?

He's attacking the fact that young people think technology on its own merits can produce authentic experiences and relatable characters.

What is the point in creating bland cgi gimmicks if those gimmicks don't connect with our day to day life?

Miyazaki's films will be timeless yet hollywood trash will continue to be forgotten.

>>57968007
>make AI that learns by interacting with other people
>send it to the wild that is outside
>interact with it when it comes back

>>57968007
>He's attacking the fact that young people think technology on its own merits can produce authentic experiences and relatable characters.

Proved by attacking a technology in its infancy, 10/10

>>57968046
>Proved by attacking a technology in its infancy, 10/10
see >>57967663

It ain't the tech, it's the sperg presentation of it.

>>57968046
Again, you have completely missed the point.

>>57968040
Except this is about an AI that can create characters in an animation which is an entirely different point and has a multitude of different ethical/aesthetic questions relating to it.

>>57968130
>>57968134
I expect a 'wise' old man to be able to see past these superficialities

Are we really on /g/ right now? This sounds like I'm on the worst parts of /lit/

>>57966674
Why does anyone even care about Miyazaki?
He hasn't done anything to advance the field of animation in literally decades and literally shits on anime fans because they would rather watch escapist fantasy shit.

>>57966674
he's criticizing the creators for being incompetent fools trying to get a program to do literally everything for them including thinking instead of doing it themselves, people are misunderstanding his criticism

>>57968228
A wise old man would know this is far from a mere superficiality. It's a sign of the people who made it and who you will be working with if you partner with them. From both a design and business standpoint, they're losers and everything they have has been done and can be done better by a more competent team.

>>57968324
His criticism is vague as fuck though, that's the problem

>>57967618
the dude makes a point... kinda; if we do keep outsourcing things to AI people can say whatever they want, but eventually AI will take all jobs and the government isn't gonna just give people money

half the people in this thread are fucking retarded, you're one of em

>>57968399

No you're just narrow minded as fuck is all.

If I told you tomorrow you can't earn money doing conventional jobs how would you make money?

It's only autistic sperg-lords with zero creativity or initiative who quail in fear of a day they may actually have to think for themselves.

>What a shortsighted old cunt for not thinking this TOTALLY RADICAL ZOMBIE GAME ANIMATION SYSTEM that they WORKED SO HARD ON isn't the most KICKASS thing

>>57968509
What's your idea then? Come on.

>>57967557
>an insult to God
in many ways it was, he just seems to have a godless theism

>>57967618
>>we're killing our planet
>hardly

>>57967641
>>cuts and bruises = BAD
>No need to emulate actual pain.
nigger, that's pain
a program override twisting all you actions just to avoid "the negative".. it just expresses differently
Or at least, we have no reason to believe chemical pain is more real than digital pain

I really really want there to be a a good reason to believe digital pain doesn't make the brain suffer, for whatever reason, but if you make a computer simulatation of a brain that reproduces same biochemical cascade that pain produces...

I'm not thrwoting it at you in a "lol u cant prove anything read sartre" statement
I just firmly believe that all emotions and feelings are characterized only by their underlying mathematical structucture
There doesn't seem to be anything in the world other than math

Just don't go around programming AI with the urge to reproduce, and we'll be fine

>>57967650
>That is the maximum possible simulation of pain we can do

Pain generates a complex cascade of responses that changes the way you act, and that complex behaviour can be reproduced
There are millions of other versions of pain, other than the specific mechanism we've evolved on Earth
also read >>57968625

>>57968672
>>57968672
>Pain generates a complex cascade of responses that changes the way you act

Yeah, make loud noises and tons of other physical stuff that can be measured. It is impossible to measure the feeling of pain. There is no hard scientific evidence it even exist just that people claim it, but that is social science.

>>57966674
>hard work

literally a failed student project

takes me 4 minutes to git clone a superior version

>>57968672
>There are millions of other versions of pain, other than the specific mechanism we've evolved on Earth

That is a meaningless statement, you can not point to any such "pain" so calling anything you can not refer to as "pain" makes the word meaningless.

If we see some alien feeling that humans do not have then we will observe the physical reactions, but calling it pain would just render the word meaningless

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>>57968243
we /lit/ now?

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>>57966674
Anime was a mistake.

Never before did I literally think /g/ was /v/ man babies

>anime is an insult to life itself

>>57967734
>It's not meant to be, it's just survival of the fittest.
>hurbuhdurrrr social darwinism
Not even Darwin thought Social Darwinism was a good or useful idea.

>>57968768
The matter would be easily resolved by calling it something like alien-pain. thx.

>>57968597

>Chop down tree
>Build desk out of wood
>Sell desk

>Write book
>Draw/Paint

>Provide OC basically

Just because machines are capable of producing uniform, perfect shit doesn't mean people will like that. People will buy stuff if they believe there's a human touch to it.

There's tons of other ideas. There's plenty of meta level shit humans will still do better than machines too.

>>57968625

>he just seems to have a godless theism
Explain how that's possible and not stupid hipster triteness.

>>57969233
>enough people will pay for enough homemade tables at a high enough profit for you to survive
>suggesting someone do art for a living
Not him but it took you 40 minutes to come up with that?

>>57968399
>but eventually AI will take all jobs and the government isn't gonna just give people money
Then what the flying fuck is the point of technology? If the end of all of this shit isn't the complete elimination of labor, why the fuck bother with any of it? Why not bang rocks together and fuck trees and shit while walking if we're not going to eliminate labor with sufficiently advanced technology?

Tech is meant to enable us to never work again and just live off the production of fully automated, self-improving systems, free to spend our time as we choose. So yes, the government better goddamn just give people money because that's the end goal of technology. That's the whole fucking point.

Wow.

I mean..it..

This is pretty impressive actually. I get that some people may be a bit repulsed..i guess.. but it's just an expose showing how ai could figure out how to use it's physiological attributes to create motion or interact with other objects on it's own. Which like they said, could be very useful in video games, and also, in robots so that they could decipher on their own how to apply motor skills to complete a task, like drawing a picture. Idk how well their implementation of that is done, but I would argue that old man's response to those kids was much more insensitive than them showing that video. Not that he shouldn't have given his honest opinion. I'm just surprised that you would take the numerous mental leaps required to become offended by an application of ai programming designed to showcase a possibility of creating the groundwork for having robots be able to complete very complex tasks, which could very well help all people if applied to the medical fields especially. Then considering that low bar for being offended, rip those kids saying their creation is an insult to life itself. Not something more like, "this is offputting and a bit offensive to those with disabilities, but is interesting because..blah blah".
Again, i'm sure what these kids created isn't ready for prime time so to speak, but maybe their on to an approach of how to think about ai motor skill programming and maybe it should be considered for its intellectual merit.

>>57969284
Well, I wouldn't use the phrase "godless theism", but there are elements of animism sprinkled throughout his philosophy.

>>57969378
>didn't read the thread lol
It's the presentation, not the technology.

>>57969414
I read the thread. The video didn't show the part with a disabled figure moving with one leg, maybe that was before the video starts. Either way, surely, as an animator, he must have animated injured/crippled figures himself, were they an affront to life? I'm just a bit shocked at his reaction, totally savage, that one kid was crushed, another kid looked like he was at maximum shame levels.

>>57967581
>No he's just unhappy that this is threatening his "Mozart" status of whatever weeb franchise of animation he comes from.

Uh. I seriously doubt that.

Have you ever watched a Miyazaki movie? He clearly revels in the joys of the human experience.

My question is: why the fuck did these ham-faced retards show him this grotesque simulation? He's the last person in the fucking world I'd dream of showing such a thing. Show that shit off at E3, not to Hao fucking-revels-in-childhood-innocence Miyazaki.

I don't think that animation *creators* particularly care about automation. They've exported the grunt work for many, many decades. Miyazaki is a creative genius, not just some schlub who fills out cel art.

can't wait till this video becomes a meme.
someone presents something, old man says it insults life itself, cuts to a shoop of the subject of satire's face crying.

>>57969534
It's also a cultural thing in Japan. Senior members of teams will absolutely trash the work of their juniors, regularly throwing out tons of it and making them redo it at a higher level of quality. Shigeru Miyamoto is famous for this.

I
>>57969378
>>57969534
don't know anything about the man, so after reading this >>57969555

his reaction makes more sense.

>>57969577
makes sense.

>>57967737
>>57967664
>>57967618
>>57967150
>>57967757
>>57968399
>>57969349
>Then what the flying fuck is the point of technology?
Let's face it. We have no fucking clue where we are going as a species

we just know that global populations are a time bomb, and technology makes surviving the time bomb easier
We are standing with too much power in our hands, and no fucking use for it other than anime tiddies, of course

We might see the Great NEET Singularity, and the ensuing massacre in our lifetime

>>57969233
so saved by biological chauvinism? I unironically support this

>>57967956
you'll be impressed. We are even fertilizing the air with carbon emissions. Wait until the machines can plant tomatoes of the rough terrain of hills

>>57969284
>>57969381
meant spirituality. I just wanted to emphasize that people get the same god-feeling from just the ether of life, or whatever
"life has meaning", sometimes even souls and shit

>>57969179
But would be meaningless because there is no scientific way of checking if it is in any way similar in feeling to pain or at all related. Could be it is more similar to orgasm, but avoided and creates disgust by the aliens for cultural or religious reasons.

It is meaningless to call it anything "pain" if it is alien enough

>>57969555
based trips gets it

>>57966674
Old sperghead will be the one getting demolished in a society that doesn't put emphasis on seniority.
>anecdotal evidence of disabled friend to explain why painless zombie motion is stupid

>>57967650
wtf did you even read the wikipedia page on pain

>>57970116
I know everything about the subject, if there was something on wikipedia that would prove me wrong then you would have mentioned it.

>>57970399
i didn't read it either. i said that because you sound like you have the understanding of a four year old when it comes to pain

>>57967897
No. Humans that don't experience pain due to brain trauma know that slicing their arm with a knife is bad even though it doesn't hurt.

Unless you're literally describing pain as generic feedback for "hey, this thing is damaged and it needs to not be damaged" in which case we already have mechanical systems that replicate that and nobody was crying about how inhumane it was because their friend has MS and can't move their arms like a normal human.

Both sides were stupid in this meme clip. The programmers for an amateur hour animation system for creeper zombies and miyazaki for thinking anyone gives a shit about the human cost of drawing or animating something that simulates physically hampered movement.

>>57970436
>i said that because you sound like you have the understanding of a four year old when it comes to pain

I used to study philosophy of mind and pain is the go-to reference because it has obvious physical markers like facial expression and sounds unlike other feelings.

I have read volumes upon volumes about everything humanity knows about pain.

>>57970606
lmao

Making creation connect with people, requires it to be grounded in reality some way.
For it to have some realistic qualities that come from the world we experience.
Not talking about any abstract crap here, but actual art.
There's a mindblowing amount of info that's required to make good art or animation.
What they had was a thing going from point A to B and they slapped a human body on it.
It was poor art.

For them to think that a simple thing like a machine figuring out an efficient way of moving, is in any way related to animation, was incredibly stupid.
The only thing it can show people is a concept "Thing moves using it's head as a leg" but you can bet your ass that if you ask a room full of animators to come up with crazy concepts for motion, you'll have that idea and 3000 more to work with.
If they had any grasp of reality here, they'd stop working on a computer that can animate and they'd turn their ambitions towards the first milestone.
Which would be "Have computers do the grunt work" like inbetweening, which is low tier work and already being outsourced.
True animation or any form of creation is too massive of a field for these guys or computers to tackle at this point.
Also they need a team that's being led by an artist, not some programmer who doesn't know what the hell they're even supposed to be doing.

Pretty funny watching these guys get told though.
They looked absolutely terrified.

>>57970618
I of course quit that nonsense when I became muslim (because it's impractical and can't feed a family) and got myself an engineering degree instead.

But I know all about the subject, what happens in the body, what happens in the mind, what social interactions happen, how pain is understood, how 'pain' is used in language and so on and so on ad nauseum.

>>57970665
So any simulations of pain we CAN theoretically do, we already CAN do by simulating physical reactions that look like pain. Which is all we scientifically can measure. Any other quality would be impossible to measure and therefore impossible to do any tests to see if we "got it right"

>>57970690
wtf why are you replying seriously?

>>57970708
Because this superstition about "feeling machines" is stupid. There is no way to test for it, the best you can do is to make something that emulates actions AS IF based on sensor inputs.

The superstition that machines can FEEL is based in irrational and messy thinking which don't belong on /g/. You can keep that in /v/

>>57970765
emotions are literally just reactions, you were right saying that mimicking that reaction is the maximum possible simulation we can do. But that's because that is literally what pain is. Do you think there's some kind of great spiritual element to pain? People are basically "feeling machines" themselves.

You're also retarded when it comes the reactions themselves.
>it has obvious physical markers like facial expression and sounds unlike other feelings.
>unlike other feelings
In what world do people not shout when angry? do people not tear up when they're sad? I honestly think you're autistic. There's also more to pain than saying ow and not wanting to touch that hot element again.

>>57970903
Yes, there is more to pain than that. But only the feeling part, nothing which can be scientifically measured. If you stab a person you can view his reaction, but that is all. Only he himself knows if he feels pain or not.

It is impossible to objectively verify that he feels pain or to what amount. Even if you measure the brain, what if he says he does not feel pain? Maybe he has a mutation where this is the case.

And if it is impossible to measure on a human it is even worse in a machine.

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>>57966983
>Not all change is good
PSSFFHHTT! Get with the times, grandpa! I'm glad you old right-wing fucks are going to die off soon.
>catpcha related

>>57970903
Most people don't shout when they are angry and only weak faggots tear up when they are sad and are unable to keep a stoic attitude about it. It depends on culture, you as a pajeet are more 'hot blooded' than us northern Europeans where shouting is seen as a sign of mental illness. If you want to kill someone then kill them, but don't make a scene like some psycho just because you are angry.

>>57970968
The reaction and the feeling are the same thing. The reaction IS the feeling.
>>57971010
Grow up.

>>57967638
Underrated post

>>57967150
AI will last as long as chad allows it to last

>>57967897
I'm not saying we can't code pain, just that we don't need to. We feel pain because if we had to bleed out to learn cuts are bad, we would be extinct. With AI, we can just keep killing generation after generation until one of them learns not to die, not because dying hurts but because they're just the ones that happened to survive.
See it this way:
If a human puts his hand in fire, it hurts him and he learns not to touch fire.
If we throw a million of different AIs near a fire and only a handful of them don't go into it, we allow these to keep on living and create more like it. Repeating this process will eventually create an AI that knows not to go into the fire without needing to have experienced it even once.
>>57968625
I do agree pain is nothing more than a reaction (a function, if you will), I'm just saying an AI doesn't need it to learn.

>>57966674
Miyazaki is an elitist who was lucky enough to be born into a golden age. How else do you expect an Old Master of animation to respond to modernity?

>>57967129
Which increases the irony 100 fold

Miyazaki's knee jerk reaction was that it was an insult to life because it was gross. Yet the evolutionary iteration that produced those forms of locomotion are the same types of iterations that produced real life.

>>57967345
>There's a degree of callousness towards making something disabled just because you think it would be good to see.

A 3d rendering of a zombie can't suffer. Zero fucks given. No one could be triggered by that, except miyazaki.

>>57967641
>No need to emulate actual pain.

Actually there might be.

I would not want a sentient AI that cant empathize with suffering because it can't experience it.

>>57966674

>muh feels

Whenever somebody says "I feel" instead of "I think" they go right into the trash.

>muh crippled friend who I haven't seen in years and can't even move

Who even cares about that retard? It's not like he's gonna buy the game or anything. I thought that meeting was about using that technology to make money, Why are they even talking about his crippled friend?

>>57968007
>He's attacking the fact that young people think technology on its own merits can produce authentic experiences and relatable characters.

What if they are right? Did miyazaki look into a crystal ball and see the limits of artificial intelligence?

>What is the point in creating bland cgi gimmicks if those gimmicks don't connect with our day to day life?

Maybe he should learn to say this without shitting on people.

>>57968324
>he's criticizing the creators for being incompetent fools trying to get a program to do literally everything for them including thinking instead of doing it themselves, people are misunderstanding his criticism

Again, what's the problem? Does he hate programing as a pursuit in itself? We can have both animators and AI specialists in this world.

>>57967027
>neo-ludditery
Whats wrong with these? I think we need more of it.
Cars gave people true freedom by allowing them to travel long distances in a relatively small amount of time compared to not using a car, and now you have idiots wanting to take the biggest advantage of cars away with self driving cars.
You have idiots buying games music and movies digitally, they are literally giving their money for absolutely nothing.

>>57969378
This would be like one of the best chess players in the world shitting on someone who made a chess playing AI and accusing the programmers of just trying to get out of learning and playing chess.

And this did happen. The best chess player at the time saw creative moves out of the program that he believed the designers could not possibly have intended. And something was learned about chess that is far more interesting than if the programmers decided to just play chess like everyone else.

>>57971958
>and now you have idiots wanting to take the biggest advantage of cars away with self driving cars.

What?

>You have idiots buying games music and movies digitally, they are literally giving their money for absolutely nothing.

Also what?

>>57966688
AI isn't exclusive to /v/ shithead

>>57971958
what

>>57971958

>digital content isn't worth money
>an experience isn't worth money
>vacations and whores aren't worth money
>if at the end of your life you die, then why even live?
>mfw I have green paper with value (at least that's what they tell me) but the kikes ain't getting any of it

just kys yourself already

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>>57971958
>literally giving their money for absolutely nothing.
you fucking wot
>buy game on steam
>receive digital license for a product I've purchased
>enjoy said product

>>57966858
Neo-luddites were an anti-technology radical movement in the '90s
They hated computers for things like "the DMV had my name mixed up in their database" and "e-mail is hard", often smashing computers in fits of rage

Haha wow this guy is fucking miserable. It's a cool project.

>>57967100
it's wasting money that could be used to feed starving african babies

shame on you