>CS majors say C++ is too hard. >Yet, scientists and engineers

scientists are the worst programmers on the planet.

but still, students are fucking babies

>flagrantly retarded and unsubstantiated assertion given as fact

great thread

>>57922799
>Yet, scientists and engineers regularly learn it as their first and only language without ever taking a CS course.

These days they learn python. If you ever get to use a super computer for scientific purposes it's mostly only python and Fortran

There's a difference between first year CS and third year. Ask the people that stuck with it for more than a year what they think.

>mainstream media says being gay is too hard
>Yet, OP can't stop sucking dick

Explain yourself

>>57924884
I like hard things.

t. OP

How long would it take me to complete programming principles from Stroustrup?

>>57922799
Who says this? My university recently switched from Java to Python, I was in the last year of Java and nobody was complaining. I think you're confusing "Academics see a massive drop out rate and assume X language is the problem" with "Students think X language is too hard".

>>57922799
>scientists and engineers learn it
Says who? In my experience, scientists rely on Fortran and Matlab/GNU Octave.

>>57924958
My university runs linux(with vim) in the labs, and makes you use C++, also have to learn a second language of your choice. Nobody complains, not sure where OP is coming from.

my profs use Matlab/Mathematica/Python, and the things they're doing are relatively simple vs what I assume even upper year CS students learn

using programming to solve ODEs and find values is a lot easier than using it to make Facebook or videogames, whatever CS students do

>>57924950
How much free time do you have?

>>57925020
>GNU Octave

Nobody uses that shit, stop pushing that meme.

>>57925413
This whole month. Next year back to uni, but I could give it half to an hour daily. It's either that or the Python's e-book in /sci/ wiki.

>>57924950

About 2 months. You could do the essential topics in less than a month though.

>>57922799
Man, I really wish I did Engineering instead of CS. It really was a meme all along

>>57922855
>If you ever get to use a super computer for scientific purposes it's mostly only python and Fortran

HPC is mostly done with C++/C and Fortran

>>57922855
Python is rather inconvenient too when you have a revolving door of students using different versions of it and wrecking dependency management. It is free so there is always that. Is VISA finally something you can use with it? The other half of the science coding experience is usually doing something with labVIEW and boy is that a meme.

>>57922799
C++ is regularly the first language you learn as a CS major too.

>>57922799
Engineers "learn" C++ in a few weeks and end up writing the absolute worst code. Am I supposed to be impressed?

>>57922799
90% of people who use C++ are just writing C with boost. They don't learn any of the gnarly shit which can make C++ a mess if used poorly.

>>57922822
fpbp

>>57926297
suck my fucking dick you fucking retard

>>57926171
>C with boost

no, they're just using boost

>>57926359
Boost is actually really nice when you don't want to roll your own standard library and you want to use even remotely modern programming practices.

>>57926690
Boost is actually really nice when you can afford to spend 20 minutes compiling for every single update instead of spending 10 minutes writing your code without boost the first time

>>57925974
Python has VISA. I setup a testbench at work with it the other day. Kinda slow, but was easy to setup and config.

https://pyvisa.readthedocs.io/en/stable/

>>57926707
>Kinda slow, but was easy to setup and config.
Python summarized

>>57922799
this is completely untrue

they use matlab

>>57925429
Sure they do. My sister is in Mechanical Engineering and her programming class uses Matlab and Octave. The only bad thing about Octave is that the documentation for it is horrible.

>>57922799
>CS Majors say C++ is too hard
this is what happens when you have mediocre normies looking to get rich in the tech industry

>>57926724
Yeah well my friend's dad works at nintendo and they use matlab everywhere

>>57922799
>C++ is too hard

If you think you know C++, read the Elements of Programming http://elementsofprogramming.com/

It's a lot harder than you think, especially when dealing with template and complexity hell.

c++ has many features you seldom use but i find it easier to write and read than c

>>57926706
well my package manager comes with boost so I don't have to compile it, and I mainly use the header-only libraries so I don't even have to dynamically link with anything. what are you using windows or something?

>>57926733
???

>>57926758
Yeah, the way I write C++ can basically be described as "C with some bonuses."

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>>57926738
what the fuck is this intentionally overcomplicated academic bullshit

>>57926764
>well my package manager comes with boost so I don't have to compile it, and I mainly use the header-only libraries so I don't even have to dynamically link with anything. what are you using windows or something?
How can somebody possibly miss the point this hard?

Heavy boost usage makes the compilation of your C++ code insanely slow. Ever wonder why every big C++ project takes like an hour to compile?

>I use the header-only libraries
Yeah, AKA the slow ones, because they do everything at compile time

>>57926806
well its either I use boost, or I re-rewrite yet another string_view class and still get subpar compilation times because C++ is impossible to compile quickly (relies on compile time code eval, aggressive optimizations, overload resolutions from a wide array of specializations/implicit casts).
i really should just be using Rust instead

>>57926171
Modern C++ = C with templates and STL

>>57926842
>I really should just be using (SJeW shit) instead
no

>>57926724

No one uses Octave. My engineering professor outright told us to pirate Matlab.

>>57926758
>c++ has many features you seldom use

Good thing no one is expected to write their own C++ compiler

>>57926788
EoP is how to write C++ using abstract algebra.

>>57926858
fuck off with this bullshit, i literally could care less about what kind of arguments some fags are getting into on github, Rust is an improvement over C++ (and the direction C++ is going in anyways), and has enough tracking to have hopes of surpassing that awful language.

>>57926849
"modern C++" = unique_ptr's, lambdas, iterator algorithms etc., all stuff C doesnt have anything close to.

>>57926806
>compiling the whole project

Make files mother fucker, learn to use them.

>>57926898
kill yourself rust admin

>>57922799
>cs majors say c++ is too hard
no they don't, stop deluding yourself into thinking you're better you fucking neet

>>57926983
Literally what are you talking about?

>>57922822
>scientists are the worst programmers on the planet.

What about Pajeets?

>>57927352
kill yourself idiot numale SJW nazi cuck

>>57927366
Why so butthurt?

>>57927405
>using a /v/ meme
kill yourself now

>>57926788
EoP is how to reason about programs, using C++, to ensure you are creating correct software. As mathematics helps mechanical engineers build bridges that do not collapse, mathematics helps programmers build dependable software.

The axioms/formal logic they use is pretty elementary it's not hard to understand if you've taken any 'Introduction to mathematical reasoning" or Intro to doing proofs book. It looks difficult but isn't, what is difficult is reasoning about what you've just written and seeing if it's correct. That's the hard part.

I once had to audit a gigantic function which took me a few days just to even find a loop invariant (something that doesn't change everytime you go through the loop). Then I had to write a contract that satisfied that invariant which took another few days. Then, running through the loop I discovered it violated the pre and post conditions of said contract and I ended up saving a major company from disaster by fixing said loop with a very simple fix to satisfy the contract.

If you're interested in this shit, see this:
https://www.cs.cmu.edu/~rjsimmon/15122-s16/schedule.html

Also this, but requires elementary knowledge of differential eq http://symbolaris.com/course/fcps16.html

>>57922822
The hackjob we are calling internet is the best example 2bh. Lee just should off smashed some particles in his collider or banged his wife during the holidays phamilia

>>57924958
Usually teaching staff and how courses are planned with material are reasons why some courses suck not because material is difficult.

Difficult material + shit teaching + shit help available = garbage course. It's garbage because students won't really master anything from the course, which means they are reluctant to ever apply it. That's just my experience. I had a dipshit who was smiling if he managed to fail 80% of people in course in a given year, higher ups in uni did nothing to fix his mandatory garbage courses either.

>>57922799
Welcome to the world you fucking autist. I mean what the fuck? Are you that dense you can't understand the reasons? For one, scientists suck at programming, and two CS courses are meant to get you ready for the industry. Last time I checked there were ten popular languages, and with back end stuff there are so many alternatives.

Perhaps you should just calm down? I don't think you understand the different needs for the industry, If we all only knew C++ then we wouldn't have the diversity of the inernet like we do now. So much flexibility with understandable ( for the average person) syntax, when that comes ( It has ) then your idea of computational purism can fuck right off. The hard way Isn't always the best way. I wonder If your toolbox only has a hammer, ya fuckin cunt.

>>57927492
(((diversity)))

>>57927427
>loop invariants
damn I hate doing those, even if it's useful

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>>57927505
Diversity - a range of different things.

plural noun: diversities

"newspapers were obliged to allow a diversity of views to be printed"

Maybe you just need a remedial reading class.

>>57927492
All those languages are going to disappear quick, we're going back to C/C++ and Lisp.

Look up webassembly. It's essentially using C/C++ to create a binary pushed through a browser. As for Lisp there's still a dozen languages released every year that are just Lisp rebranded. "You can create a data abstraction without constraints and eval!"

>>57927520
a range of (((different))) things

>>57927518
The trick is once you are aware of them you look for them immediately when writing a function so in effect are doing test driven development where everything is already totally reasoned out before you even start programming.

I learned this all from a senior developer as I noticed everybody older than 40 where I worked was carefully planning programs for months before even touching code. OpenBSD does the same kind of development, months of work on a whiteboard and manually checking loops on paper. It pays off in spades when the program you make is not an unstable bag of shit

>>57927528
I agree, It will slowly go back to C++. We all know this, the only advantages to say Python Is It's syntax. But this Is good for the next generation of programmers, get them on Python 3, or Java, or Ruby to get their feet In the water then once the things like web assembly are so wide spread we will atleast have a college base of students that can learn the fucking shit. I mean, sure most Comp Sci majors are just retards with a complex. But I learned C after Python, and C++ after Java, for me It's a sense of just letting the people learn what they can ( Easy syntax ) and with that foundation they can build upon It.

>>57927547
Yeah but for the moment we just have to find the invariants in functions that our teachers coded and sometimes it's a clusterfuck

>>57927556
Cont - In summary, maybe we shouldn't be posting C++ master race, It puts people off. I mean shit, years and years ago this was the running thread topic on the board. It only makes people hate programmers more, and It makes them more willing to never learn the language.

>>57927556
All the Python I see everyday is just a wrapper for C++, like TensorFlow library.

Where I work we stopped using the wrapper and just directly use C++ for these libraries for various reasons, mainly Python's weird issues and corner cases. I find working directly with memory and manipulating it much easier than allowing abstractions in Python or worse, Ruby which has so many issues I can't even. Every couple of weeks, a gem is altered, so now your silly app propped up by a dozen docker containers mysteriously misbehaves and you have to track down the issue. I have no idea why anybody in their right mind uses Rails or Ruby but w/e, it's the way it is.

>Yet, scientists and engineers regularly learn it as their first and only language without ever taking a CS course.

Wrong.

>>57927563
Those CMU 15-122 lecture notes are good for seeing how they found the invariants/preconditions. The actual videos were up for a while, where they painstakingly went through shit like Quick Sort and Binary Search Trees to discover invariants and talk about how doing this exposed a flaw that existed for over 20yrs

>>57922799
Learning C/C++ doesn't really show it's benefits until you learn some ASM. Then you start seeing how code gets translated to machine operations, how some keywords and optimizations work, and you understand where stack or heap memory is and other concepts that make the computer seem more like a mechanical engine than some magical mystery box. It also gives you an opportunity to experience abstraction and larger concepts too.

After that, any language becomes just a different syntax for a tool.

Then there is the fact that many academic degrees are just a fancy piece of paper to justify an expensive adult daycare.

>>57926898
This.

Haters are either ignorant or just fucking retarded.

>>57922799
They learn matlab or R

>>57927768
tumblrist samefag

CS is glorified tech support phone help desk and secretary work in MS Office.

>>57927427
Got any other books that deal with this stuff?

>>57927556
Why do people think java is less of a pain than C++? It's C++ with 2000% more boilerplate bs.

>>57926870
We used maple. At home i enjoyed to work with mathplotlib.

>>57927589
Let's pretend that Fortran is dead.

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>>57922799

Look at the code written by scientists and tell me they actually know what the fuck they are doing. You have not experienced true hell before reverse engineering 3000 line C# programs with the entire program logic contained in form1.cs

>>57922855
Can confirm, also its not like it's hard to learn other languages when they are needed for something.

>>57926870
Shit, we get everything for free in our uni

>>57922822
I'm a scientist and can confirm. In their defense most of the code they write are only used by themselves, often only a couple of times. It doesn't make sense to clean that shit up too much.

>>57922855
python is mostly used for automating the underlying bare metal simulations and/or processing the resulting data. Sometimes useful, if your problem can be represented as matrix multiplications, then you can use numpy, otherwise it's shit slow.

>>57928860
I'm a pajeet and can confirm. In their defense most of the code they write are only used by themselves, often only a couple of times. It doesn't make sense to clean that shit up too much.

>>57922855
>>57922799

Mathematician here

Actually in my numerical analysis and programming methods course during my bachelor's degree we used C++, there also was an optional python course and a matlab one but nothing special, in another course we used mainly c++ and fortran
I'm in pure maths so i don't know well, but a friend of mine in applied maths told me that he uses c++ and matlab daily

>>57929445
>Mathematician here

Not considered a science by the other sciences. Science don't have proofs, science have evidence that support a hypothesis.

I am an engineer so not considered a scientist either because I only apply science. The only programming I learned in university was Python and Matlab. We never had the opportunity to learn c++ or fortran.

>>57922855
Particle physicist here. For small, straight forward analysis I've used python and gnuplot. For everything serious I've used C++ though. Fortran isn't really being used anymore, except for LoopTools. I have never written a single line of Fortran code though, just compiled it.

>>57922822
Literally this. Nuff said.
/thread

>>57922799
Hey now, I'm a CS grad student and I love C++. In fact I have used nothing else in the past 2 years (even though I also know C# and Haskell). It's just the perfect balance between abstraction and no-frills low level control for my taste.

>>57922799

C++ is only hard if you're stupid.

But there's an ongoing meme about it being hard, which is fine, since it keeps me on the bread.

>>57926788
It's basically maxing out the compile time to grasp for a broken academical dream of making just another small, meaningless part of programming checkable. Just another of thousands of axioms that won't help you shit in the real world.

>>57928435
java to python person here
you can't do java without an IDE
java out of the box needs code management

>>57922799
I had to learn C++ in my second semester for my applied math degree.

It was seriously embarrassing to see that so many CS were alot worse then me.
The weekly homework required about 1/5th as my math classes did and somehow some of the CS students complained how hard it was.

>>57922799
First year here, but not "muh consistent employment!!!" type. Just genuinely like learning CS topics. Love C, C++ seems like something I'd like to learn.

>>57929680
You have no fucking clue what you are talking about.

>>57927547
Doesn't recursion simplify loop invariants into a problem of induction?

>>57927366
what are you even trying to say?

>>57922799
C++ is probably the hardest language to learn, of the programming languages that have any real purpose (e.g. not malbolge).

>if a class has virtual functions and no virtual destructor, deleting a subclass as the super class will cause a crash.
>if you don't specify a class's virtual functions as pure and don't add an implementation, you'll get incomprehensible linker errors
>templates create horrible unreadable linker errors
>shared pointers can very easily cause memory leaks when used improperly, when something like a cycle exists
>crazy non-deterministic static initialization order
>many useful C features are absent e.g. (implicitly casting void*, designated intializers, anonymous nested structs and unions)
>implicit typedefs on classes

>>57926788

int abs(int x) {
    if (x < 0) return -x; else return x;
}

who would ever write this. Why not just use:

#define abs(x) (((x) , 0) ? -(x) : (x))

or:

<temptate T>
T abs(T x)
{
    return x < 0 ? -x : x;
}

>>57922822
>scientists are the worst programmers on the planet.
Sure, if you discount the 50% of all CS majors that are utter shit, and ignore all the scientists responsible for writing the most common libraries, or the scientists who regularly program for their work.

>>57922799
Literally no university nowadays teaches C++ as a first language.

Universities resort to languages that don't require as much brainpower to code in such as Java because it's easier to teach and it boosts their pass rates.

>>57926724
>My sister is in Mechanical Engineering
hook me up, is she sexy?

>>57932299
Nobody uses recursion in production code.

>>57935756
We thought no one would use your mom to produce you, but here you are.

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>>57922799
I think people who get attracted to CS are just dumb entitled introverts who've grew up hearing they are geniuses and will be rich just because they can boot into secure mode to fix their dad's computer (I'm one too).

I went to a graduation cerimony last june and there were visibly more students graduating in medicine, computer engineering and electrical engineering than computer science (at least 2.5:1 ratio).

It's not that CS is harder than other stuff. The people who end up in CS are either stupid, mentally deranged or had no idea what to do with their lifes. I don't need any fucking research to assert this, just look at them or better yet look at the amount of CS dudes looking for PUA stuff.

They can't think for shit.
They can't socialize.
They can't even groom themselves until their mid 30s.

Its like they're eunuchs and CS is the only thing making them feel "useful" to society.

>>57935299
Nope. Can verify this is not true.

>>57935866
t. redditor

>>57922799
So, I started CS in 2012 in Ireland. We started with C. Wrote console programs and then moved on to programming msp430's and on Haskell in semester 2. 2013 First years did SCRATCH for entire semester 1 and moved to Processing. It was because 60% of our year dropped out or failed before 2nd year. Oh and they tried to force us to use Scratch in algorithms. We argued, so we got C# instead.

>>57935866

Dubs confirm.

t. CS student

>>57935756
kek nice b8

>>57926782
This. I basically don't use templates unless a library requires it. The main things I like about C++ are strings, vectors and OOP.

>>57934547
wew lad ever heard of complex numbers?

>>57935866
gonna back this post with personal exp

>>57928716
Lol. I like that story. I want to see the code. It werked tho didn't it?

>>57929624
>meaningless
>real world

This is all used in the 'real world' for building rockets/airplanes/self driving vehicles/drones/ISS/anything that orbits and anything requiring mission critical correctness. http://www.springer.com/la/book/9783319308050

It's also used in Genome sequencing algorithms because you really don't want to fuck anything up there or have side effects: http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~15210/schedule.html

>>57934547
#define is cancer and you should never use it.

Also it's a minimalist example, check your autism privileges.

>>57927427
Mechanical engineers don't build bridges, smart guy.

>>57938142
Medicine is rapidly becoming CS though

>>57929873
>The weekly homework required about 1/5th as my math classes did and somehow some of the CS students complained how hard it was.

So much this. Even worse is that they are completely oblivious to it and think they are at the top of STEM in terms of difficulty and math.

>>57935299
My university taught Assembly, LISP, C and Java in the first two semesters

>>57938089
OOP is depreciated. It's all about RAII and generics now.

>>57929517
You're thinking of empirical sciences. Engineers are not considered scientists because, like you, they're too retarded to understand basic concepts of epistemology and end up believing in homeopathic bullshit like the singularity

>>57938589
>You're thinking of empirical sciences.

It is the only kind of science, the scientific method is empirical reasoning.

>epistemology

That is philosophy, not science

>>57938656
>It is the only kind of science, the scientific method is empirical reasoning.
You're intellectually stuck somewhere in the early 20th century.

>That is philosophy, not science
I may have worded it wrong, I never said it was a science.

>>57922799
mfw I'm a CS major and I'm currently doing my C++ coursework.
This is fine.

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>>57922799
b-but i study CS in vienna and learned C++ as my first language.

>>57938708
>You're intellectually stuck somewhere in the early 20th century.

There has never been another way of doing it that is considered science. Science is based on evidence and not like philosophy, logic or math where it just follow from the rules. That's not science.

>>57922822

am scientist and can confirm. runtime is meaningless. will brute force to get answer.

>>57922799
Fuckall scientists know C++, ever. Even physicists (who are pretty much the only group who ever cares about it) don't learn it anymore (while they're still likely to learn fortran, it's nowhere near as popular as it once was either).

Explain yourself.

>>57929517
>there are people who are this retarded on /g/
lol

I'm in engineering and we did only scheme in first semester and then assembly and c++ in the second

>>57935866
Going to CS, can confirm.

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I was trained on C++ and have been doing it professionally for a few years. The hard part is dealing with job interviews.
>yet another fukken HackerRank session
>do this stupid string manipulation trick
>ohboyherewego.jpg.png.ltx.exe.gif
>no, do it without using std::string
>why don't you remember this obscure std::ios trivia?
>here is this obnoxiously hard question...times up, thanks for playing :^)
I really want to transition off of C++ to something more modern but holy shit.

Years ago, they had to bring me on site so if they wanted to be an asshole, they had to do it to my face.

>>57935299
Just starting my degree and we are learning C++ as our first language so...

>>57938954

oldfag here, do you still use matlab?

>>57939120
I'm in my third year and I haven't used matlab for anything

>>57938954
>>57939138
Are you MIT? They are somewhat (in)famous for shoving Scheme down student's throats during the first year.

>>57939157
I'm not american

>>57939170
>get 40 years deprecated education
>decide to brag about it

>>57925974
virtualenvs + pyenv + virtualenvwrapper

>>57939170
Waterloo?

>>57939178
I'm not bragging?
I was just saying I wasn't american so I didn't go to the MIT

>>57939179
Weird way to spell anaconda (and also it's still shit)

>>57939250
t. middleschooler

>>57922799
BREAKING NEWS: Students found to be less capable than scientists. More at 11.

>>57939223
>>>/a/frica

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Finished college back in 2007, did they all go back to C++ as their training language? It looked like they were all moving to Java at the time. Even AP Comp Sci uses Java as dumb as that is.

>>57938589
>singularity

Only retards in CS believe that shit

>>57939370
No, none are using C++. It was java for a while but nowadays it's even javascript or python.

>>57938815

Science is about modeling general concepts. Engineering is about modeling particular systems.

>>57939440
Science is about finding. Engineering is about implementing. Math is about doing lots of drugs.

>>57939370

python is the new meta

blame mit

>>57939461
Python is just C++ for lazyasses. Looks like we didn't get very far.

Fourth gen languages have turned into a hot mess anyway.
Java is being run into the ground by Oracle.
Half the .NET library that makes C# worth a shit gets deprecated every time Microsoft releases a meaningful revision.

>>57939452
>Science is about finding

Measurement is about finding, Science is about creating models that are in "approximate" agreement with the measurements.

>>57939547
This is what I'm referring to with regard to finding, since the idea is that the model which is developed represents the world being studied, thus can it be called anything less than finding the model (or properties thereof)?

>>57939452
>Engineering is about implementing

can confirm i just graduated mechanical engineering and there is a bunch of stuff we do that we don't really understand that's why factors of safety exist

why spend thousands of hours trying to come up with a mathematical model to find the compression stress in a spring to design for its optimal thickness when you can just use an empirical formula that takes 2 seconds in which you end up making a spring 3 mm thicker then it needs to be.

Im not a programmer by any means but why do you need to get all autistic about code when you can just use pajeets code which does the same thing runs 35 - ms slower and costed $20000 less then your optimized autistic masterpiece code

>>57939649
Because actually, pajeet, your code runs 35 days (that's right, 35 FUCKING DAYS) slower, and cost 10x as much as it would have cost if handled by a non-pajeet. Granted, the 10x markup isn't really your fault, it's the firm we work with, but still.

>>57925093

people that whine and complain are faggots. Don't make friends with them.

>scientists often use FORTRAN and python

nuff said

>>57926770
Lurk moar.

>>57926171
C++ is defined using RAII obsessively. Nothing else.

MODS

>>57935866
Confirmed. Grooming is easier now at 34

>>57922799
At my uni, most kids can barely get Java working. Sure, a kid that programs in his fucking free time anyway will have no problem with a mandatory C++ class, but most kids will fail and obviously the professor will get in trouble for that.

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>>57922855
Geneticist PhD student I use Perl, Pyhton, and R. I want to learn C/C++ see my thread here? >>57940163

>>57940240
Needs "cuck" and some other of the newer /pol/ nonsense.

>>57940268
Yeah that's actually an older one. Someone needs to update the "fuck off /pol/" graphic. They have a few new buzzwords.

>>57939591

But there needn't be just one model

>>57940338
There can only be one correct model, although there can be several partially consistent models.

>>57940398
>>57940382
>>57940371
>>57940363
>>57940356
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>>57940039
>>57940027
>>57940016
>>57940005
>>57939991
>>57939981
>>57939965
>>57939955
>>57939946
>>57939930
>>57939879
>>57939864
>>57939796
>>57939780
>>57939731
>>57939646
>>57939589
>>57939554

SAMEFAG RETARD FIGHT!

>>57938327
Build them, blow them up, same difference.

>>57940428
you dun goofed

based mods

>>57939724

Most of the algorithms and shit CS majors study aren't useful in STEM outside of OR.

>>57926127
and functional, and they use it rightaway
meanwhile you made nothing

>>57927474
Maybe 80% of you were dumb fucks? I know in my second year course I had people frequently asking "what does test case x do?" When the test cases were just bash scripts given to us. Literally people about to get their associates can't figure out how to run cat testcase.

More stupid fucks need to fail.

>>57922799
>tfw learning c++ after learning c#

Holy shit it was an adventure learning about memory allocation

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>>57935866
>They can't even groom themselves

There really should be a required class on that.

>>57941002
>>57941014
>>57941029

holy fuck. The niggers saying to go back to /pol/ are as bad as /pol/ posters them selves.

You're all faggots to me, now shut up

>>57940374
>There can only be one correct model

No, see:
Newtonian Mechanics, Lagrangian Mechanics, Hamiltonian Mechanics
or
Heisenberg/Jordan Matrix Mechanics, Schrödinger's Wave Equation, Feynman's Path Integral Formulation

>>57928716
I've had to debug a 6000-line VB6 module that used over 200 global variables instead of local variables, with one-letter variable names

>>57941114
>200 global variables
>with one-letter variable names

何

>>57941138
Well they started with one-letter names and moved on to shit like AA and AB

>>57941144
I'm so sorry

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>>57941144

>>57934778
>comparing people who majored in something to scientists
Are you so stupid that you don't see the apples and oranges

>>57938009
enjoy your stack overflow.

>>57941144

why didn't they use an array like variable[i]?

>>57935866
painfully true

>>57943465
Only if your compiler is dumb enough to not do TCO.
So unless you use python, you are good.

>>57922799
i don't think it's too hard, it's just a frankenstein language of C and object oriented concepts and it should fall out of use in favor of something with a better design.

>>57935756
>this is what retards actually believe

>>57941546

b-but it's how the pioneers did things!

>>57944080
What if it isn't a tail call?

>>57944139
real men manage their own stacks

>>57944080
TCO is only for tail recursion, i.e. fucking useless in non-functional programming languages.

There's no good reason to ever use tail recursion instead of iteration in a language with decent loop constructs.

>>57935866
>had no idea what to do with their lifes

basically me

i don't want to do anything except not exist but I'm supposed to go to college so here I am junior year of CS

I hate this shit, I want to do something else but I don't like anything. Life is hell.

>>57925156
CS students don't make Facebook. That's the job of web developers and software engineers.

CS do shit like data science, neural networks, genetic algorithms etc

>>57926127
EE student here, we had a c++ course one semester 4.5h a week + various workshops i think this brought me on a solid skill level. CS students learn java at my uni because they don't care about performance.

>>57945583
CS/SE also does a lot of formal semantics at my uni.
The cool thing about formal semantics is that the development of it is hard math and the application of it is definitely engineering.
To make software engineering a real engineering field we should make more use of formal semantics and statistics to prove that our programs work or atleast work X% of the time.

SE student here, we have courses with the CS students and we started out with C.
Can confirm most people think it's too hard, and most are used to C#.
Good for me as we need more embedded developers in Europe and from my experience EE student don't write /great/ code, at my university SE students definitely have a much higher focus on good programming practice.
So my job prospects are looking good.

>>57939649
>why do you need to get all autistic about code when you can just use pajeets code which does the same thing runs 35 - ms slower and costed $20000 less then your optimized autistic masterpiece code

This is why you are an engineer. It's all about practicality and cost to you guys and not about making the mathematically best masterpiece code.

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>>57941067
>im not racist!!
>shutup you nigger!!
It's true. Your average internet racist really is 2-3 standard deviations of IQ below the mean.

i study cs and we started with c++
check mate

>>57942373
Clearly you missed what was said. Half of CS majors are trash. A large number of scientists are better than CS majors at CS.

>>57945583
>data science, neural networks, genetic algorithms

memes, memes and more memes

>>57939810
This. The crybabies are everyone who will dropout/switch majors. Everyone else not complaining has already found the URLs (usually same URL as lab 1 but with lab 2, etc instead) to the rest of the labs and is getting ahead/working on other projects. Make friends with those people

>>57925921
Yup. Although you'll find most big data stuff written in Python or Java.

>>57935866
Would this extend to SE?

>>57951042
If you are in it then yes

>>57926706

Make sure to use the -j flag on your make, for the distributed build. If you can, make a beowulf cluster out of raspis, and use it for distributed compiling / integration testing / git server / doxygen server / whateverthefuck.

It's so much nicer than doing it on your workstation

>>57934547

I avoid processor macros like the plague. At my last job, I ended up having to help debug some retards code when it started doing shit that should not have been possible.

It turned out that he was using a multi line #define as a function, and putting it under a single line if statement with no brackets. Meaning the if conditional only applied to the first line of the #define (since it's basically a glorified copy and paste) and everything else ran no matter what. As a bonus, debugger suck at catching this shit.

ALWAYS USE BRACKETS ON BRANCHING AND CONDITIONAL STATEMENTS. I DON'T CARE WHAT YOU FUCKING EXCUSE IT. THERE IS NO DOWNSIDE. THERE IS NO POSSIBLE ADVANTAGE TO BE GAINED. IT'S TWO FUCKING CHARACTER, YOU FUCKING MONGS.

>>57952459
This. Nothing annoys me more when people think minimalism is more important than readability.

You minimize to make it more readable. That's the primary justification of minimization.

>>57922799
They say it's too hard because they're not really interested in programming.

>>57939179
Those are all more things that the student has to learn.

A computer science education should not serve to teach students the memes of the week.

>>57952459
Or you could just wrap your retarded macros in a do{}while(0)

>>57949400
The only thing helpful about a CS degree is that you can probably assume the person will be productive within 6 months of hiring them.

>>57952899
>implying CS majors can even fizzbuzz

>>57935866
this is true but i don't care

t. graduating in three months

>>57954609
Your typical CS major is working with data structures in C++ and Java before they're even halfway done.

>>57922855
At my university we learn C++ first for all engineering

I thought most CS students used whatever languages they are taught in school just to be able to learn the deeper CS concepts. I don't think schools actually concentrate on teaching this. That's for you to develop on your own time.

>>57926870
amen to that. I was too cheap to use matlab when i should've and ran into a lot of pain.

i used octave in my second year systems and signals course to compute LTI systems. all my shit ended up being wrong. Turns out the fucking controls package is fucking broken and they never bothered to fix a simple ass function that any punk with half a braincell could write in about an afternoon. I know its that easy to fix because I rewrote the functions i needed in the aforementioned time

Honestly, I am studying a Comp Sci degree at a top 10 University in the UK. One of my modules involves implementations of different datastructures and algorithms, and to implement we are required to use Java. There are 3rd year Maths students taking this 2nd year comp sci course. So many people failed the first 2 courseworks that the lecturer started putting semi-complete source code and pseudo code in lecture slides to help them. This is a meme, stop chatting shit.

>>57922799
All you need is C and OCAML. Take your OOP to the nearest shitting street where it belongs.

>>57955351
>working

In teams where only one student actually does the work.

You aren't a computer scientist unless you program all of your assignments using turing machines.

>>57958308
>implying Von Neumann architectures are not homomorphic to Turing machines
>implying most formal programming languages aren't various levels of convenient specification of the processes of a Turing machine
By the way, scientists don't have "assignments" you sophomoric moron.

Most CS students aren't computer scientists, you need to have published peer reviewed research to earn that title.

>>57958435
most computer scientist students are idiots following trends. if you are so dense to see this was a joke then you are a lost cause. mathematicians or those that are mathematically inclined math the best computer scientist.

>>57958463
>It was merely an act

>>57958479
being formal isn't an act.
following fashion statements is.

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>>57958553
Newfags gotta new eh?

>>57922799
learned c++ first, c second for CS minor and computer engineering major, honestly I think C++ makes a bit mroe sense

>>57956670
>C++ is OOP

Confirmed for not knowing modern C++

>>57952589
What are they interested in?

>>57945335
You might be a schizoid.

>>57935866
>They can't even groom themselves until their mid 30s.

Oh Jesus, nail on the head there, bub.

>>57939370
>Finished college back in 2007, did they all go back to C++ as their training language? It looked like they were all moving to Java at the time. Even AP Comp Sci uses Java as dumb as that is.

Holy shit, are you kidding me?

I graduated in 1998. C++ was being supplanted by Java at that time. How the fuck did C++ remain as a primary teaching language until after around 2001?!

>>57943465
>enjoy your stack overflow.

int compute_something(int x, int depth, const int maxdepth)
{
    if (depth > maxdepth)
        return 0;
    else
        return compute_something(x * x, depth + 1, max_depth);
}

>>57960044

Or you could not be a tard and write

int compute_something(int x, int depth, const int maxdepth)
{
    while (depth++ <= maxdepth)
        x*=x;
    return 0;
}

>>57960013
Depends where you live. Yuropoor the route is typically

- Intro to Programming with OOP Cancer using language like Eiffel
- Intro to Java for "Software Engineering" requirement
- C++/CUDA algorithms and GPU OOPS cancer


US schools it's typically
- Python intro
- Obscure func language course
- Algorithm courses in cancerous Java
- 'Software Engineering' in Java
- C for all the systems/OS courses.

The only C++ I've come across in North American university open calendars/lecture notes is for grad level database courses and parallel algorithms courses done on GPUs.

>>57956198
Yes, you never learn a language in any university, you learn just enough of it so the material they're trying to teach you makes sense via example.

To learn a language you get it's entire spec and read it. For example SICP does not teach you Scheme, but reading these spec docs does http://www.scheme-reports.org/

Friend of mine took Java numerous times in university, now works for Elastic Search, still had to get a full spec on Java and read through it (still uses it everyday too).

>>57960365

For me (Germany) it was:
Programming 1 (Java)
Programming 2 (Java/OOP)
Programming 3 (Assembly)
Later on I learned some C/C++, HTML and PHP.

>>57960450

It still makes a differnce if you learned something in University and have to fill the gaps with a Spec or if you never heard of that language before. Especially with stuff like Java where there is just so much to learn.

>>57960795
>Programming 1 (Java)
>Programming 2 (Java/OOP)

Were you on the quarter system?

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>>57922799
>C++ is too hard.
ROFL.
If C++ is too hard, then you should have picked art history or another gay subject as a major.

>>57960932
Or just a small-ish (in terms of time/week) course.
I had one "programming" course where the literal basics were introduced up to basics of OOP.
And then another semester where the OOP concepts, design patterns and a few software engineering technics were introduced.
They could have been faster, but the course is built to be available for everyone that can find the "ON" button on a computer.

>>57960365
ucla uses c++ for its intro series. Then straight into C. NO BUMPERS

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>>57961147

>>57958607
There is no modern c++, there is only the steaming pile of deprecated trash that used to be c++.

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>>57961594
Yeah right.

>>57926724
>my sister
>mechanical engineering
pick only one please

>>57961883
Why would I be lying?

>lol there aren't any girls in engineering XD
Underage b& pls go and stay go

>>57961777
That on the left is c.

>>57922799
CS are entitled brats used to high level and abstract handholding. Engineers and Scientists are used to doing things by hand and dealing with low level conceptual design.

Honestly, CS shouldn't even be a major. It should be a minor for Comp. Engineering programs.

>>57922799
c11 > c++14

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>>57964071
>That on the left is c.

>>57938217

No it didn't, but it was only a bad setting.
You can have a look at the code here http://www.multichannelsystems.com/software/mcsusbnetdll, enjoy the interesting use of #ifdef

That said multichannel systems are fucking pro at their core business and they've written plenty of very good code, it's just that in this case the code was really bad and shitty to work with. They've also been super nice and supportive, they're definitely way more competent than the example code would indicate.

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>>57941114