>he uses vim or emacs Why do you insist on using obsolete

>>57854460
What is this shape?

What it means?

>>57854460

Fast, minimalist, works over SSH, powerful regex support for both, emacs works as an effective generalized IDE, Vim modal editing allows insane editing speed with practice.

Tldr
>it just werks

I'm used to it

I don't think I would recommend either vim (which I've used for 3+ years) or emacs (which I've used for 5+ years) to a newcomer, honestly. They both have so much accumulated cruft and lack modern features. But then, I don't know if there are really any good alternatives these days, since I never really look at text-editors.

If you want it to work over SSH (which has its use-cases), you're probably still stuck with vim+emacs.

Gonna disagree with this guy about cruft, this is the same complaint people make about c++ and it's wrong there too.

All of the "cruft" in both editors can be taken case by case. You never see or have to use the janky parts that aren't relevant to your work, nor do they slow you or the computer down in the slightest, mentally or physically.

I'd agree it's low priority for a beginner, and shit like emacs "yank", rather than copy and paste is seven levels of dumbass to the modern user, but I hate this cruft meme.

>>57854460
>im a neet and unable to learn myself some keyboard commands

Any other text editor is like vim in insert mode.
We still got two modes left.
Get on our level.

>>57855112
nah, there is definitely cruft and weird shit and oddities that do actually affect me in my day-to-day-work

some examples, emacs (vim has many similar issues):

- the flickering issue (recently solved with a hackaround)
- weird windowmanager issues with emacs (it doesn't always want to fullscreen 100% and leaves a small gap at the sides)
- lots of shortcuts need to be re-bound depending on which keyboard layout you're using, e.g. on a DE layout, some of the default shortcuts are impossible to use
- lots of inconsistent shortcuts in different modes
- lots of modes that work really poorly. indentation in octave always gets the "end" wrong, indentation of \begin{enumerate} in LaTeX always gets it wrong. This should ideally be a core part of the editor and be well-tested
- lots of hack-ons like multiple cursors etc which are possible in emacs but nowhere near as nice as in e.g. sublime
- performance in both vim and emacs can be poor. e.g. in emacs when linenumbers are activated and you're browsing a large file. applying even relatively simple macros to 2000 lines can take a long time. vim has perf issues because it can't (or at least couldn't, don't know if that's fixed by now.) multi-thread/process. This is the reason neovim was made.
- you can hack together a bunch of IDE-like features but neither emacs nor vim can get even close to being as good as a proper IDE for specific languages. Compare e.g. to QtCreator which can with easy draw type hierachies, follow symbols under cursor and many other advanced C++-specific features. The "IDE"s people build out of vim and emacs are always shitty and brittle.

>>57855346
(cont)

And then there's the fact that both are scripted in a language that nobody really gives a flying fuck about anymore... who wants to use elisp or the abomination that is vimscript? And don't tell me you can script both in other languages, because yes, you can, but no, you really don't want to do it.

And I say this as a longtime emacs user. I don't necessarily HAVE to have features like the QtCreator ones on a day-by-day basis when programming, but I keep it at hand when e.g. diving into new codebases. Exploring a huge C++ codebase that you know nothing about can be a very very challenging task, and autocomplete, type-hierachy and other exploratory features many IDEs have can really help with that.

>>57855346
>lots of shortcuts need to be re-bound depending on which keyboard layout you're using, e.g. on a DE layout
desu this is a problem with everything and not something devs should give a fuck about. They should just design their shortcuts for the most common layout at the time, currently qwerty. This is why I stopped using my country's retarded, shitty azerty layout too. Literally nobody but us and the frenchfags use it, so now I go out of my way to buy qwerty laptops.

>>57857545
dunno man, I'd like to keep using my german keyboard layout.

>>57854965
This.

>>57857545
Even qwerty isn't the same in all langs.
The "symbols" are in different places for different native lang qwerty keyboards

>>57857589
You can set

Option "XkbLayout" "us"
Option "XkbVariant" "cz_sk_de"

for extra convenience: lv3+[ makes an u-umlaut etc.

but I switch to the german for longer german plaintext.