are we all just going to IGNORE how garbage this display server

>>57414277
>implying I don't enjoy living in the 70's

>>57414277
We are going to ignore it.

>>57414277
>Muh neckbeard controversies
>Use this broken heap of shit because it isnt X

>>57414277

>implying that Wayland is anywhere near finished

No.

>X is old, therefore it's useless

You can connect to your university's unix server, start an X server instance, connect to it with X on your client, and have a completely graphical interface instead of text-only ssh.

You can even pipe it through ssh to make it encrypted.

Show me you can do this in Wayland and I might agree with you. However, Wayland can't and won't do this, because it's intended to be localhost-only.

>>57414277
are we all just going to IGNORE how garbage this Loonix """""os""""" is? If you aren't using Windows in the current year then you are literally living in the 70's

>>57414322
>muh wayland
it's still half broken and weston is a piece of trash not to mention that 99% of applications will require the Xwayland backend anyways.

Wayland is bollocks Mir will set us free

REPENT! THE END IS NIGH!

>>57414370
Linux didn't exist in the 70s. Using it means you're literally living in the now

>not to mention that 99% of applications will require the Xwayland backend anyways
Wayland is exciting, I guess, but it's going to take awhile for it to mature and people to use it.

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>>57414277

>>57414277
late 1980s, not 1970s.

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>>57414365
this, exactly

^-^

>>57414670
>Cadence
lel cuck
real men write their own in forth

>>57414529
>not to mention that 99% of applications will require the Xwayland backend anyways

The only application on my system that requires xwayland is Chromium. Every single other application works fine.

>>57414365
>You can connect to your university's unix server, start an X server instance, connect to it with X on your client, and have a completely graphical interface instead of text-only ssh.
literally no one does this shit because of the godawful latency and shitty performance, stop spreading misinfo

"X is garbage" is a meme.

The only thing it sucks at is compositing, that's basically the whole reason Wayland even exists, Wayland is just Compiz taken to its final form.

It's garbage.

>>57414455
Mir is shit compared to Wayland, the performance is shit and you should feel like shit

>>57414277
The 70s were a better time

>>57414940
Haha joke's on you, I feel shit all the time

>>57414365
>You can connect to your university's unix server, start an X server instance, connect to it with X on your client, and have a completely graphical interface instead of text-only ssh.
Ask your university to change their policies. Most of the places I work and my university switched to remote desktop entirely. It is actually much better and hassle free.

>>57414670
To be honest for cadence stuff remote desktop connection works way better. For example xstart messes up window management in W10, in general most things don't follow conventional rules when forced to work in Windows or Mac, like they end up out of screen and stuff. It's just much more annoying than remote desktop.

>>57414771
Do you know what you're talking about?

>>57414277
We're fucking trying, alright?

>>57414277
Main issue, I think, with X.org is that the drawing is all single-threaded. The X protocol doesn't require this, and DRI3 based rendering is nicely multithreaded.

A new X server that uses egl for drawing and thread-per-connection model could take good advantage of DRI3 without junking the protocol..

>>57414277
Some of my favorite apps won't run on Wayland correctly

>>57415762
Yes, I do.
Related reading: http://yosefk.com/blog/my-history-with-forth-stack-machines.html

>>57416100
Have you ever done actual work with it? Got something fabricated?

By the way, reading it again it sounds like I was being rude but I was actually curious as I don't know anyone who used it.

>>57414881

>Wayland is just Compiz taken to its final form
Why do you bother posting such incredibly wrong and bullshit comments? Do you think this place is filled with idiots who will not cringe at your retardation?
I hope you don't do this in real life, because you'd make everyone uncomfortable with your idiocy.

>>57414365
This would imply that people on /g/ go/have gone to reputable institutions
Most of the idiots here majored in "IT" at their local CCs and are here to discuss the new iphone.
Not a single person in this thread has had to do real work involving a unix/linux system.
t.toxicology researcher

I'm already on Wayland. Much better than X, much more reliable too. If you want to stay on X, then honestly, you shouldn't even be using Linux, you're no better than people who refuse to upgrade from Windows XP.

pottering fags need to fuck off

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>>57414277
> hurr durr it's too hard for me to use! waahh

go back to using M$ or being an apple faggot cuck. linux is for actual MEN who want to get shit done ethically.

>>57414881
X is a massive security liability and has been forever; even ignoring cosmetic things it was overdue to be tossed out a decade and half ago.

Becoming a meme doesn't make something any less true.

>>57414277
Wayland is crashing really often while doing simple tasks for me.
Its like a lag-free and vsync ready x from ubuntu 8.04, which also crashed alot on simple tasks.

And you usually need to run X apps in compatibility mode, which is just added bullshit.
Imagine running an windows app in wine with x compatibility layer on wayland, that's just getting silly.

>>57414365
For this purpose, on modern hardware, why not use VNC or some other, similar solution?

I'd honestly rather have X be abandoned, if and only if it meant moving on to more modern solutions. Better performance is implied in this.

>>57414277
Too bad waylands is unironically 10 orders of magnitude worse right now (just the bugs alone makes it unusable, let alone the lack of support and renderers or the critical flaws like max 5 xwayland windows open at once).

>>57417002
That would require installing the desktop sharing solution on both ends and probably requires both ends to have a full graphical environment setup whereas X forwarding works even when only the client has a graphical environment setup (beyond the obvious need for X being installed both ends). Pretty sure it would also lag a lot more and be significantly less secure.

>>57416916
I don't think anyone should disagree with that, but unfortunately there's nothing that even remotely attempts in good faith to replace it. No, wayland's "just rewrite everything from scratch on your own :^)" approach does not qualify.

>>57417002
>why not use VNC or some other, similar solution?
BLLLLOOOOOAAAAAATTTTTTT!

>>57417236
I don't fully follow. Isn't adding networking capabilities to something that is supposed to be (in the absolute majority of usecases) only used locally causing bloat?

>>57417095
How would it possibly be any more or less of a security risk?

I suppose what you're saying is true though, in the case of a server serving a significant amount of clients, it's not viable to have each viewing their own graphical environment.

>>57417095
>Pretty sure it would also lag a lot more and be significantly less secure.
Opposite is true. I don't know the technical reasons I'm just a user.

>when only the client has a graphical environment setup (beyond the obvious need for X being installed both ends).
Not a problem, a 300 MB install at most. And it doesn't mean you need to actually use it within the server to set things up. It just runs it for the clients.

Seriously remote desktop is way better than running X through.

>>57414277
Works fine on my machine.

the only thing that's seriously fucking GARBAGE about Xorg now is that they got rid of the monolithic config file, making it twice as confusing to use now

Xorg -configure doesn't even work anymore

>>57417365
>users all have root access to workstations and clusters!
How to spot the dropout.jpg

>>57417388
There's also the lack of separation and overall security (run xinput on your mouse in a terminal, then put another window in focus. notice how the terminal still receives every event). Plus the fact it causes rendering to be duplicated (Want to create a window? First render a rectangle, then render the window! Genius!) which causes visual issues and performance issues.

>>57414277
>If you aren't using Wayland in the current year then you are literally living in the 70's
fuck off and come back when wayland isn't a downgrade

>>57417406
Huh? Just ask your admin to be not stupid and install an environment. In which exact part I implied this should all be done by the user?

Also seriously X forwarding is less secure and slower than just using VNC or something.

>>57417469
My fucking sides! Underageb& are hilarious!

>>57417437
Doesn't OpenBSD's Xenocara fix some of the separation stuff?

>>57417365
>>Pretty sure it would also lag a lot more and be significantly less secure.
>Opposite is true. I don't know the technical reasons I'm just a user.
Actually let me corect this, I do know the reasons:
>X: Sends out all the related info about the program you're running through secure connection.
>Remote desktop: Sends out compressed image of the desktop you have through secure connection.
It's faster and more secure to send out images.

>>57417562
Ok.

>>57417579
Xenocara is an X version 20 years behind with partial monkey-patched isolation. Even firejail is a better solution.

>>57414365
>You can connect to your university's unix server, start an X server instance, connect to it with X on your client, and have a completely graphical interface instead of text-only ssh.
X hasn't been network transparent for over a decade now.

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>>57414277
werks on my machine.

>>57417596
in 2016, remote X11 also sends a compressed image

we stopped using X drawing primitives decades ago. All modern toolkits (gtk, qt, etc.) just draw an entire frame from scratch and blit that in one go, including over remote

remote X is just a shitty version of remote desktop (shitty in that you need to re-send already sent parts instead of just sending the difference, for example)

>>57417388
>the only thing that's seriously fucking GARBAGE about Xorg now is that they got rid of the monolithic config file, making it twice as confusing to use now
You can still use one. It just lets you split it into several files if you want. Try before you talk shit next time.

>Xorg -configure doesn't even work anymore
It's not needed because it makes shit work by default.

>>57417706
>It's not needed because it makes shit work by default.
I need it to generate a sane default xorg.conf file.

>>57417720
Why?

It will behave exactly the same as if you had no config file.

>>57417727
In case I need to change something.

>>57417388
>Xorg -configure doesn't even work anymore
Works fine for me. You're probably forgetting the :0

>Xorg :0 -configure
makes a file in /root/, move it to /etc/X11/xorg.conf

>>57417740
Then make a .conf with just that change and put it in conf.d. That's the whole point of the current conf.d system, not needing a monolithic config just to change one or two things.

>>57417768
Nah, they flat out removed the option. Says here that it doesn't recognize -configure.
>not needing a monolithic config just to change one or two things.
It's a helpful reminder of Xorg's fucked up configuration syntax, though.

>>57417706
Sometimes it doesn't, though.

>>57417820
Then make a .conf with just a few lines to fix what's broke.

>>57417896
[syntax error]

>>57417906
Read what syntax is supposed to be and don't be an idiot.

The syntax for files in conf.d is the exact same as the old xorg.conf

>>57417979
[syntax error]

>>57414277
>released in 2004
>living in a time three decades prior to its release
>literally

No. That's not literally, you stupid faggot. I agree X.org is deprecated bullshit, and everyone should begin the transition to Wayland, but don't be a fucking retard.

>>57418009
User error.

>>57414370
t. Pajeet Nashrami

>>57418017
Oh, so you're inbred. Carry on.

>>57418271
What the fuck are you even talking about, you dumb nigger?

>>57414370
mate first UNIX was made in 67-68 for PDP and was ported to x86 in C in 71 so how linux would be older if linux was created in 91