So let me get this straight: when Bill Gates and Paul Allen wrote

which part of it is surprising to you?

passionate, educated programmers will get shit done while code monkeys and hipsters will write basic shit with their eyecandy frameworks

every company needs a set of educated people to lead and make sure the code monkeys don't start a shit throwing fight in the office over which *.js library to use

those people are so rare in the current job market that companies are ready to suck a dick and spend a fortune for keeping them

I'm glad for not falling to the web developer meme

>>57358970
Early computers (50s, 60s, 70s) were very expensive, so computer time was much more valuable than programmer time. Programmers wrote very tight, highly-optimized programs as a result.
Early PCs (70s and 80s) were fairly inexpensive, but their hardware was very limited and weak, so to get much done on them, programmers wrote tight, highly-optimized code. They had to.
Now computers are very cheap. The cost per MIPS is infinitesimal. Programmers have only gotten more and more expensive as demand for code to be written has outstripped the number of people who know how to write it at all, let alone the number that can write it well. Valuable programmer time plus abundant and cheap computer time means that the former is conserved while the latter is used wastefully.

I'd argue that much of the code being written doesn't need to and shouldn't be written, in the field of web dev. But markets supply what gets demanded, not what some neckbeard in his armchair like me thinks they ought to supply.

>>57358970

Programming still requires a high IQ if you care about speed, efficiency, robustness, security, etc.

But nobody in middle management cares about those things so Pajeet shits the code base and consumers are fucked.

>tfw you'll never optimize a simulation on a Cray, far away from pajeets

>>57359299
>muh developer shortage!

I haven't believed that shit since the .com burst. HR departments get thousands of applicants and positions sit open while companies wait for the perfect snowflake that fits a 10 page wishlist.

Anyone doing this is either A) not desperate for more coders, or B) purposely running out the waiting period before they can import Pajeet.

But we both agree on web dev. The web is a massive convoluted pile of stinking shit. That's why downloading a typical page consumes half the resources of a core i7. It's fucking ridiculous.

>muh 10mb of web frameworks!

>>57360692
The shortage is real, it's shortage on actually skilled developers.

If all you need are pajeets, then either your project isn't anything serious, or you're asking to pay quadruple down the line when you have to hire someone who actually knows what he's doing to sort out the shit pajeets did.

All in all I'm okay with this.

>>57360773
>The shortage is real, it's shortage on actually skilled developers.

I'm not seeing that. As in I'm personally not seeing that. I know a couple guys who need work. Two more who have shit jobs but can't find better.

And yes, they are skilled above fucking Pajeet.

>>57360692
>>Anyone doing this is either A) not desperate for more coders, or B) purposely running out the waiting period before they can import Pajeet.
both true. A.) is true for a lot of jobs in general. They would like to expand, but it's not urgent. They don't need the labor this instant. So they keep a line in the water, and if the perfect candidate bites, they reel him in. If not, eh, whatever.

>>57360842
Pajeet is a below-average programmer. your friends are average programmers. Companies wait for really superlative programmers. The relative productivity of these would be something like x1, x5, and x100, respectively. Because, again, in today's economy, they can afford to hang back and wait, they don't need labor so badly that they have to take what they can get. Unless, as was mentioned, they just need warm bodies to do what anyone with two functioning brain cells can do. Pajeet gets those jobs because he's cheaper than any American.

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>>57358970
>Paul Allen

>>57359178
>educated
Gates was a codemonkey too for due to shitty definition.

>>57359299
This.

>>57361019
which is funny because the "super engineer" meme has proven to be false.

when was the last time you worked on a project that had a chief engineer a la torvalds who really ran things top to bottom technically? I've never seen it. There's too many companies doing too much basic bitch shit waiting for torvalds to walk in and fix everything. They're waiting for the snowflake and the snowflakes already have settled where they're happy.

frankly, the companies i see do well overall abuse the h1-b system to "onshore" cheap developers and put them under slightly above average americans. of course there's no shortage of whiteys trying to get a leg up to take lower/middle management positions to keep quality in check for FOB indians.
Boom, medium pay, medium quality, and you've set up your entire workforce to be burned out in 5 years, flush in new ones and you get to reset wages. it's awesome for C-level.

>>57361019

Everything you just said = the market is flooded and we need fewer programmers, not more.

>The relative productivity of these would be something like x1, x5, and x100

An absolute myth created by the lines-oh-code crap from middle managers who can't turn their computers on. The 'x100 super engineer' does not exist.

What high IQ engineers bring to the table is an ability to see the big picture and architect solid, secure, fast, extendible software. But pointer haired managers only think in LoC and hire Pajeets. The project will be buggy shit that will have to be rewritten in 2 years, but they can't see past their noses.

Also:
>your friends are average programmers.

One of them could be near Torvalds level if he wasn't fucking depressed because of no steady work. I shit you not. Guy was into computers in grade school and is self taught. And by "self taught" I don't mean someone who struggled though Mommy Coder Camp. I once trusted him with part of a project being developed in a language he had never touched. I've never seen someone flip through some pages of a book, load an API reference in their web browser, and bang out solid, FAST code in a language they had never touched 24hr earlier.

Another example of his skill: someone posts data analytics job to Guru. My friend "applies" to tell the guy he's going to get ripped off because given the specs you would need a super computer. Guy replies that his specs were a test...a test everyone else had failed. Here's the real specs if you want it. He got the job, banged it out, and squeezed more performance out of a quad core server then I would have thought possible. I learned shit just reading his source.

His IQ is 140s if not 150s, but he comes from a poor household and never got 'muh degree.' Not sure how to help him, but this market doesn't want him and I think it's a fucking tragedy.

>>57361293

This is what I see in the market and it's depressing.