>GMOs are bad >Nuclear power is bad Which one of those

anti-vac

Nuclear power wouldn't be bad if it was fusion

>>57328073
nuclear power is bad is the worst
GMOs are just dumbcunts who wont eat some foods
anti-nuclear are actual fucktards who are slowing down serious technical advancement

nuclear, as genetic copyright and legal protection of seeds and breeding rights is absolutely ridiculous, no matter how beneficial GMOs are there's a legal aspect of it that should be changed
You can say no all you want to nuclear power, but all that will do is move new nuclear plants away from cities, there's too much opposition from other forms of power (hydroelectric kills fish populations, gas pollutes, wind is expensive/useless, solar isn't subsidized enough and won't be effective in an urban setting)

>>57328073
They tend to overlap anon.

>>57328124
>gmo's are just dumbcunts who won't eat some foods
anti-gmo are driving the market to produce in a less sustainable way that hurts the poor and in the more extreme areas make people starve

The GMO people
Nuclear has done less harm to the environment than fossil fuels, but it has done some harm.
GMOs have literally only brought benefits.

>>57328127
>wind is expensive/useless
wind is actually pretty good by now, there are situations where you could say that it's straight up the most financially viable.

>>57328073
Both are bad, but antivaxxers are definitively bad.

My usual response:
>GMOs are bad
Oh, so you want poor people to starve, is that it? You entitled shit

>Nuclear power is bad
Oh, so you want poor people to choke on toxic fumes, is that it? You entitled shit

>Vaccines are bad
Oh, so you want babies to die from curable diseases, is that it? You entitled shit

>Climate change is a hoax
Oh, so you want third worlders to be climate refugees, is that it? You entitled shit

>>57328169
I like this. It slaps their righteous left-wing dick right in their own faces.

>>57328166
They're diffidently cheaper than ever before but still I haven't seen a single wind turbine pay itself off with upkeep and maintenance
Plus even if they perfected it it's still a regional thing

>>57328127
>genetic copyright and legal protection of seeds and breeding rights is absolutely ridiculous, no matter how beneficial GMOs are there's a legal aspect of it that should be changed
this


if anything, the anti-gmo movement has brought some tastier breeds of plants back into the light
the gmo stuff is becoming kind of bland and samey to appeal to the broadest groups

still stupid to believe it's anything but superior product nutrition, safety, and efficiency wise though

>>57328169
>Climate refugees
Refugees don't have citizen rights, right? Only the universal human doctrine of no slavery/murder/rape right? It won't be long before citizens step in, and then America will be in "political turmoil" and I could be a refugee, get a sweet place across the pond for free

>>57328236
http://phys.org/news/2016-01-energy-approach-nonrenewable.html

>>57328189
>left-wing
Actually, both antivaxxers and anti-Mosanto fucktards are pretty prevalent among Trump supporters

>>57328263
>Refugees
>no slavery/murder/rape
europoor here, that's not how refugees work

>>57328169

>GMOs are bad
Oh, so you want poor people to starve, is that it? You entitled shit

They starve anyway because exporting food into their countries kills their subsistence farms.

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>>57328271
But being liberal is also prevalent with trump supporters

>>57328121
Sure, let's just set off a fusion reaction, that'll be fucking dandy.

>>57328263
I'm not even sure what your point is, I don't particularly like economic migrants (aka """"refugees"""") that try to exploit the welfare systems in Europe, but I also don't particularly like the obviously bought politicians that are denying climate change because huge oil and coal companies have financed their political campaigns.

>>57328277
That's how the universal human doctrine goes globally, I'm asking if legally classified refugees get citizen rights of the country they're residing in

>>57328169
I wish I had friends and family like you

>>57328294
Sure lets just set off a splitting reaction, that'll be awesome

>>57328299
I never understood why non-legal immigration is such a huge deal when we're welcoming non-legal immigrants with open arms because their country sucks
It sucks everywhere, why can't refugees move somewhere close by and cheap?

>>57328294
Shouldn't you be writing to CERN about how their experiments risk making a black hole that would swallow Earth?

>>57328073
honestly neither is that bad except in they way they operate, GMO's not doing enough testing/unethical companies, nuclear power in not considering cleaner fuel sources/methodologies or just general ineptitude.

>>57328330
>It sucks everywhere, why can't refugees move somewhere close by and cheap?
Because why would you, when you've heard from your cousin about magic fairy tale country somewhere in northern europe where they GIVE YOU MONEY for being unemployed

I actually don't blame legal and illegal migrants/refugees for trying to come to my country, but I expect my government to inform them that only refugees that risk prosecution and death in their home countries are welcomed.

Nuclear is well understood by now.
We know what the dangers are and how to make it safe the most of the time.
When an accident happens, people get an emotional response and then there is a big pull to either remove it or scale it back.

GMO covers a lot of different things.
There is produced a lot of new foods all the time and long term testing every aspect of this is very hard and often limited to the people who makes it.
The fear here is more constant. I am not aware of any cases where deceases has been linked to the modifications of the foods, so I assume that the fear stems from the lack of information. It is very hard to claim that no GMO food is bad, so for some people that means all GMO food is bad.

>>57328362
Nuclear is literally as clean as it gets, the only offput is hot steam and the depleted material gets locked up in a safe container and buried underground, where the radioactive shit was in the first place

>>57328300
Depends on host country. Generally they get every aid and support citizens would and then some, but they don't have the right to vote. So no, they are not citizens.

>>57328330
>It sucks everywhere, why can't refugees move somewhere close by and cheap?
They usually do. Turkey, for example, have 6 million Syrian refugees (about twice as much as entire Europe). It's just that Syrians are treated like subhumans by the kebabs.

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>>57328330
>It sucks everywhere, why can't refugees move somewhere close by and cheap?
To paraphrase Orwell - all countries suck, some just suck more than the others.

>>57328408
Is this on the Polish border?

>>57328381
GMOS have been found to mutate our cells

>>57328073
GMOs are bad because they force small farmers out of the market, limit genetic variability in crops for a few seedless strains so farmers can't replant without going back to the seed company. they also allow for far more pesticides to be sprayed meaning the food is actually far worse for you simp0ly due to the in creasing amount of chemicals used on it to keep bugs away.

beyond that plants will grow so fast they are moistly starch and have little nutrient quality left.

>>57328382
Also, there are reactors that can burn through most of the depleted material too. And there are totally safe reactors, that will cool down on their own in the event of catastrophic failure.

Also, the typical argument is "but how will we store it?!!!!" is void. France has had 80% of its power from nuclear power since the 70s, and all the combined waste from 40 years doesn't even fill a basket ball court-sized room.

>>57328169
>Oh, so you want poor people to starve, is that it?
yes
more food just makes more poor people

>>57328417
Yup. Czech has holes in their side of the road.

>>57328424
They thought it was safe in Tjernobyl too, they also thought it was Safe in Japan
>b-but it won't happen again
Yeah sure

>>57328420
>they force small farmers out of the market
That's a good thing. Subsidising small farmers because they want to have a non-viable hobby is bad.

>limit genetic variability in crops for a few seedless strains
That's objectively false, as most GMOs are aimed at higher survival rates and higher reproducibility.

>they also allow for far more pesticides to be sprayed meaning the food is actually far worse
That's also wrong, because of the above. Surviving means also resistance against insects and diseases.

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Anti-Nuclear Power dumbcunts are the worst. If nuclear power is done right it can be super environmentally friendly so I don't see the problem. Anti-GMO people just don't eat some foods so I don't care. Just anti-nuclear power people get on my tits.

>>57328453
euh germany doesn't border czechia

>>57328161
>Nuclear has done less harm to the environment than fossil fuels

Fukushima's nightmare will last forever.

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>>57328286
Nice oxymoron.

>>57328457
>They thought it was safe in Tjernobyl too,
They didn't

> they also thought it was Safe in Japan
They didn't. Also, Japan *is* safe. The measured radiation levels are well within the acceptable levels for longterm exposure.

In both cases, human error were to blame. Also, neither were so-called generation 3 reactors. And in both cases, the meltdowns were LOCAL disasters. Less than 80 people died in Tjernobyl, and no one died in Fukushima.

More people have died from hydroelectric plants than have ever died from nuclear power.

>>57328424
cant we just shoot it into the sun?

>>57328489
>Fukushima's nightmare will last forever.
No, it will not.

http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2016/03/five-years-after-meltdown-it-safe-live-near-fukushima

>>57328501
>More people have died from hydroelectric plants than have ever died from nuclear power.
No shit, because we have more people working at hydroelectric plants

>>57328473
>czechia
Nice try Czech Rep. government.

>>57328499
Search your heart, you know it to be true

What about thoriumreactors?

>>57328510
Too expensive and the environmental benefit would be lost in burning all that rocket fuel.

There is no need to though. As I said, the accumulated waste of France's entire nuclear power program doesn't even fill a basket ball court-sized room.

>>57328377
This.

And unironically the reason for the European refugee crisis is... *drumroll*: SMARTPHONES.

Would these fuckers even know about unemployment benefits if it wasn't for their retarded cousins texting them about it? No.

Would these fuckers even remotely know how to get to Europe or how to find people that will get them to Europe without GPS and texting? No.

Can't really blame for taking the most opportunistic way of handling their situation... About the opposite of what my country's (and neighboring country's) government are doing.

>>57328473
I think you're confusing Cecenia and Czechia. Common mistake, one is right next to Russia, the other wants to.

>>57328418
Sauce?

>>57328418
You also know what's been found to mutate your cells? Your own cells and their DNA replication.

>>57328458
>That's a good thing
no its not, it kills the yeoman farmer in favor of huge mega-farms producing massive amounts of a single crop, this is very bad for both the soil quality (meaning there needs to be more and more chemicals put in to make it fertile, but this can only go on for so long) and for the possibility of disease since no genetic engineering will make a plant strain 100% immune to everything forever, and if something comes along that wipes out our Corn or whatever then our food supply all dies.

GMOs certainly are not genetically diverse, they are single strains most often produced on massive scales, this both limits product availability for different tastes and again makes crops sustainable to total die-offs.
beyond this it puts our entire livelyhood in the hands of a few conglomerates which is a very bad idea for sustainability and pricing.

you don't know jack shit, just parroting the typical positivist line about GMOs, they most certainly spray them far more simply because they are engineered to be able to withstand more pesticides without dying, this is the biggest reason for GMOs and their survivability, not any genetic trickery. beyond that now they can have the pesticides within the plant as well as on the skin meaning you can't just peel your fruit to get rid of it.

>>57328501
>only counting the people that died
>not counting the hundreds of people that got or will get sick from the radiation exposure and the shitton of economic damage it caused

>>57328489
Humanity's nightmare is wildlife's paradise, see Chernobyl.

>>57328501
you're ignoring the fact that they have raised the "acceptable limits" multiple times because fish and crabs across the pacific are coming back way above previous limits and fisheries were complaining.

>>57328501
Human death is NOT why hydroelectric power is bad, building dams in the 40's with minimal safety caused that. Hydroelectric power is amazing, cheap and sustainable and pollution-free, where I live all we have is hydroelectric power and we literally have the cheapest resident power on this half of the earth, but the real problem is the death of fish
Dams and backed up resevoirs make it so salt/fresh fish like salmon never find the downspout to the ocean to grow up. Even with fish ladders and fish tubes in the dam the problem is actually the reservoirs. Look at any place where fans have been for a while, you'll see that up to 90% of salmon populations are flat-out gone die to dams

>>57328073
I'd say Climate Change/Global Warming deniers are the worst, interestingly enough the overlap with Trump supporters. Really makes you think

>>57328510
>sending significant amounts of earth's matter into space to never return
This is what will be the end of our planet

>>57328594
Eels are going extinct because of dams

>>57328597
This

>>57328569
>>not counting the hundreds of people that got or will get sick from the radiation
The 80 people from tjernobyl IS including these people. No one died in the initial fire, less than 80 people died from acute radiation poisoning or long term effects of exposure to radiation.

>>57328565
>yeoman farmer in favor of huge mega-farms producing massive amounts of a single crop
Good thing.

> this is very bad for both the soil quality (meaning there needs to be more and more chemicals put in to make it fertile
This is just plain wrong.

>they most certainly spray them far more
This is just outright wrong, and you're either lying or severely misinformed.

>>57328573
>mutated giant albino deer dragging themselves across the shards of broken burnt trees

>>57328603
ever heard about meteorites? every year we get over 300 tons of minerals from them

>>57328617
That is based on the assumption that everyone who will get sick from the radiation is known right now and there will be no effects that only present themselves in the future, that is a huge assumption.

>>57328594
>where I live all we have is hydroelectric power
Norway?

Because if it is, I have some information for you.

>>57328633
No holmes I'm from idaho

>>57328632
No, it's not. You're making assumptions about the assumptions.

The complete list of casualties include people who died from unnatural causes (such as heart failure) where no direct link was even found, just that they had been in proximity of Chernobyl at the time.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deaths_due_to_the_Chernobyl_disaster

>>57328655
You don't get it, read it again, I'm not just talking about Tjernobyl also about Japan

>>57328647
Okay, because we almost exclusively rely on hydroelectric power here, and while that energy is cheap, we sell most of the power to Europe during the summer and then have to buy expensive gas and coal power back during the winter.

if GMOs kill small mammals I'm not taking the risk on humans

>inb4 hurr durr no proof on humans
It's not been properly tested durr

I don't eat GMOs.

>>57328670
No one died at Fukushima. No one will die because of Fukushima. No one will get any diseases because Fukushima and after five fucking years it's proven safe to live there.

>>57328688
Says some anonymous guy on 4chan

>>57328687
I've been feeding my small mammals GMOs for years
And the most famous GMO of all, corn, is fed to pretty much all livestock (even though all livestock prefers grass, corn is actually cheaper than grass)

>>57328702
Says the fucking government of Japan and also several independent studies, but I guess they're a bunch of liars that hate Trump and secretly shills for Hillary, am I right?

>>57328710
Lets see those studies

>>57328687
I eat GMOs all the time, I never got died.

>>57328687
>properly tested
Everybody in any modernized locations has been eating GMOs for decades

>>57328720
Remember DDT, the miraculous pesticide?

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>>57328148
thanks for your input Mr. Monsanto.


Fuck GMO's and anyone who backs them, fucking idiots. We can't cure the common cold yet we can engineer our foods? no thanks, I'll stick to the food the way nature intended it. I hope you GMO shills get cancer.

>>57328720
ANd people of countries that have introduced GMO are getting all kinds of diseases, more so than those countries that has banned them

Also terminator seeds you fucking turbo nigger.

Only fucking plebs and ludites eat GMO.

Cold fusion is cool though.

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>>57328286
there are no liberals in the US
there are leftists and there are hardcore leftists

>>57328742
DDT was known to be unsafe in the fucking 60s. It's just that lobbyists paid politicians to say otherwise. Know who's the biggest opponents against GMOs in today? Pesticide vendors.

>>57328760
>Cold fusion is cool though.
It's also a scifi meme and not even remotely feasible as of today, where we can't even get viable "hot" fusion reactors to work energy efficiently.

>>57328760
>ANd people of countries that have introduced GMO are getting all kinds of diseases, more so than those countries that has banned them
That's wrong though.

Also what countries have "banned" them?

>Also terminator seeds you fucking turbo nigger.
Typical anti GMO scaremongering

>luddites
Ironic, since luddites were opposed to technology.

>>57328749
>we can't change our genetic code to be able to resist a virus that tailored itself to humans, and even if we could MUH MORALS would halt all research
>that somehow implies we can't modify food
jesus christ, shouldn't you be in your amish village

>>57328760
>ANd people of countries that have introduced GMO are getting all kinds of diseases, more so than those countries that has banned them

Interesting, have any citations?

>>57328749
>We can't cure the common cold
We can though, it's just too expensive compared to the cost of having a cold.

>I'll stick to the food the way nature intended it
Humans have been modifying food since forever.

Link very related: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3428689/What-fruit-vegetables-look-like-Researchers-banana-watermelon-changed-dramatically-ancestors-ate-them.html

>>57328783
>It's also a scifi meme
>just a scifi meme

Kys, skiddie

https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/171660-1-megawatt-cold-fusion-power-plant-now-available-yours-for-just-1-5-million

>>57328073

Well, the worst thing about GM foods is that they don't even tell you if the food contains GMO. Most contain ingredients which contain GMOs but never state it. It's kind of like going to some restaurant like Burger King or whatever and then it turns out you've been eating halal meat.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2622830/Millions-eating-halal-food-without-knowing-How-big-brand-shops-restaurants-sell-ritually-slaughtered-meat-dont-label-it.html

ITT people falling for anti GMO bait

>>57328749
>We can't cure the common cold
yes we can, the problem is that "the common cold" is like a billion million different diseases
We'll be creating humans from scratch and travel the stars before "curing the common cold"

>>57328825
>extremetech.com

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_fusion

>Cold fusion is a hypothesized type of nuclear reaction that would occur at, or near, room temperature.
>hypothesized type of nuclear reaction

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>>57328795
Lol so you have no argument??

Just say youropponent is wrong without anything to back it up. Typical shill tactics.

You monsanto shills are literal cancer.

http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2013/03/201332813553729250.html

>>57328833
That's because it brings unnecessary fear since there is no science that backs up that GMOs are bad. It's like labeling everyone here a "4chan user" in the real world.

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>>57328770
>biggest opponents against GMOs in today? Pesticide vendors.


Perhaps, but you know who else is against GMO's? People with common fucking sense.

>>57328825
From your own link, retard:

>E-Cat, or Energy Catalyzer to give its full name, is a technology (and company of the same name) developed by Andrea Rossi — an Italian scientist who claims he’s finally harnessed cold fusion. Due to a lack of published papers, and thus peer review, and a dearth of protective patents — which you would really expect if Rossi had actually discovered cold fusion — the scientific community in general remains very wary of Rossi’s claims.

>>57328850
Did you even read the article I posted where they have a working cold fusion reactor to sell or are you just blindly posting a wiki page that hasn't been updated in forever you flaming retard?

>>57328795
>terminator seeds
OK this is pretty fucked though, "Hey guyz lets make it so crops only grow once and their seeds are sterile and patent the shit", fuck you poor people how dare you try and grow our food to eat. Our society literally only evolved because seeds make more food.

>>57328865
>aljazeera

Also, neither France, Germany nor Italy have banned GMOs.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulation_of_the_release_of_genetically_modified_organisms#Europe

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Wow I never knew there were this many shills in /g/, either shills or just idiots who think they are smarter than everyone else.

You want to eat GMO's, fine I don't care, I do NOT want to eat them, GMO labeling should be LAW.

>>57328617
>Good thing.
explain why its a good thing besides just proclaiming such?
it means individuals can't make a living farming anymore, it means "buying local" isn't a thing anymore and therefore more preservatives/massive shipping infrastructure is needed, all very nasty. it means less diversity and a rougher impact on the soil/surrounding environment as mega factory farms suck up all of a regions water supply and pump chemicals into the soil/groundwater.


and the pesticides thing is 100% true, this is the main reason for the existence of GMOs, making plants more resistant to pesticides and including synthetic pesticides into their genetic makeup, this is what makes them unhealthy

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-bronner/herbicide-insecticide-use_b_5791304.html

>>57328874
>Costs $1 per megawatt hour
>doesn't emit ionizing radiation

BUt muh appeal to authirtaay!! Fucking illogical peter puffers.

>>57328885
>Did you even read the article I posted where they have a working cold fusion reactor to sell or are you just blindly posting a wiki page that hasn't been updated in forever you flaming retard?
Yes, I read it. See >>57328874

>>57328770
>opposing GMOs, pesticide companies
what in the actual fuck are you blathering about, they're the same companies.

>>57328899
post proofs

>>57328891
THat pic isn't from aljeezera you mong. Learn to read.

Also from the wiki article this cock sucking shill posted:
In February 2008 the French government used the safeguard clause to ban the cultivation of MON810 after Senator Jean-François Le Grand, chairman of a committee set up to evaluate biotechnology, said there were "serious doubts" about the safety of the product[104] (although this ban was declared illegal in 2011 by the European Court of Justice and the French Conseil d'État[105]). The French farm ministry reinstated the ban in 2012, but this was rejected by the EFSA.[106]
In 2009 German Federal Minister Ilse Aigner announced an immediate halt to cultivation and marketing of MON810 maize under the safeguard clause.[107]

>>57328893
>GMO labeling should be LAW.
this
and having organic options is a very good thing.

>>57328919
agreed

>>57328073
What the fuck is that pic ment to imply? Selective breeding isn't the same as genetic modification you illiterate idiot

>>57328911
read article then sources. I'm not doing your work for you, lazy fatt fuck.

>>57328889
Selling people crops while making sure they can't re-plant them is second best thing any capitalist can think of.

>>57328899
THERE IS NO PROOF HE ACTUALLY DID IT you flaming faggot.

I can also claim I made a cold fusion reactor in my basement.

Basically, the Italian nigger scammed a bunch of people and got sued when his reactor didn't work.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_Catalyzer

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>>57328824
>Humans have been modifying food since forever.
Selective breeding, cross breeding, cross pollinating, grafting, etc.. are a far fucking stretch from directly modifying genes. Surely you understand the example you gave is fucking retarded.

>>57328918
>banning one crop = banning GMOs entirely

Okay nigger

>>57328937
ITs been tested already you fucking peasant.

friendly reminder: soylent green is people, its people

>>57328946
>are a far fucking stretch from directly modifying genes
It's not, it's the same process only quicker.

>>57328893
>either shills or just idiots who think they are smarter than everyone else.
yeah, thinks they're smarter than everyone else by believing the scientific consensus.
The humble people are the ones that think they have superior knowledge than heavy research without a source

>>57328946
You are accomplishing the same task by different means.
Creating favorable genes to be expressed.

Is there literally anything bad about GMOs? I can't find anything with a source to a journal publication.

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>>57328968
>>57328972
Shills, you are a waste of my time. Cancer be upon you.

>>57328833
All corn is GMO
95% of anything sold in a grocery store is GMO
It's been that way for decades

>>57328968
>Implanting bacteria genes into plants is the same as trying to breed two plants from the same species.

top cuck.

>>57328898
>it means individuals can't make a living farming anymore,
That's a good thing, farming should be automised 20 years ago anyway.

>it means "buying local" isn't a thing anymore
Who cares? Do you buy locally knitted sweaters and clothes too?

>more preservatives/massive shipping infrastructure is needed
Yes, which means MORE JOBS.

>all very nasty
It's not even if you proclaim it is.

> it means less diversity and a rougher impact on the soil/surrounding environment as mega factory farms suck up all of a regions water supply and pump chemicals into the soil/groundwater.
I keep hearing this soil and groundwater and SCARY SPOOKY CHEMICAL argument, but all studies show the opposite.

Also
>huffingtonpost
Liberal niggers please fuck yourselves.

>>57328870
Well they failed 800 years ago when the same people were picking and choosing their best crops

>>57328982
not him, but theres a big difference between selectively breeding plants over time for certain properties and splicing genes into them to make them artificially produce insecticide. With being so prolific, having little testing and non-existant labeling what could possibly go wrong.

>>57328391
Syrians are kebabs. Turks are roaches.

>>57328964
Then why was he sued and the company declared bankrupt and the patents dismissed?

>>57328990
There isn't, and the best thing about GMOs crops are the liberal tears that water them.

>>57328990
No one has ever died from the consumption of GMOs.
However, many peoples' deaths have been linked to the use of pesticides on traditional crops.

>>57328073
>2 gmo varieties of potato were just approved that would have prevented the Irish potato famine.

>>57328889
So what about "terminator puppies"?

The GMO is immunized against all dangers: one may call it a poison, unhealthy, cancerous, against nature, it all runs off it like water off a raincoat. But openly label it a GMO and you will be astonished at how it recoils, how injured it is, how it suddenly shrinks back: “I’ve been found out.”

>>57328870
>Perhaps, but you know who else is against GMO's? People with common fucking sense.
Scientific consensus that GMOs are safe are stronger than on climate change, you double nigger.

>>57328893
That watermelon is a GMO, non-GMO watermelons have a gross pulpy center
And I bet that chicken is straight from Tyson

>>57329024
I thought conservatives are the anti science ones.

>>57328999
You sound like an organics shill with this aggressive attitude that refuses to engage in discussion. like you have a disingenuous investment in your beliefs.

>>57329024
>Then why was he sued and the company declared bankrupt and the patents dismissed?
Political reasons obviously, or are you naive enough to believe that he was sued for his ecat machine not working properly when it was tested and proven to do what it says?

THe same reason ethanol was banned in the 1920s, because rockefeller didn't want it competing with oil as an energy source.

You're probably the most retarded person on /g/ right now. Congrats, thats quite the accomplishment.

>>57328919
There are fruit stands you know
Or you want organic food that looks good, tastes good, has no insects and doesn't go rotten in 2 days?

>>57329036
haha you mean actual puppies? yeah thats pretty fucked too, i mean sure people nuter individual dogs but i kinda want dogs to be around a while, and sterilizing them kinda sucks for that.

>>57328893
>GMO labeling should be LAW.
I agree, so people could boycott """"organic"""" pesticide infested poison.

>>57328749
>We can't cure the common cold yet but
Do you know how to do math or even spell your name? This is the dumbest shit I've ever seen posted on any board.

Also, ever eaten a banana? Or a pea? Every single banana today is a gmo creation. Every single pea sold to be eaten has undergone generations of modification by humans to be round, plump and green. They used to be yellow and looked like raisins.

>>57329055
they are, but alt-righters will pin anything on liberals. granted, there are people from all walks against gmo's.

>>57329055
Not when it comes to vaccines and GMOs.

>>57329060
>ecat machine not working properly when it was tested and proven to do what it says?
No publications
No patents
No independent testers

He was a conman.

>You're probably the most retarded person on /g/ right now. Congrats, thats quite the accomplishment.
Just read the fucking article you posted yourself, it was a hoax.

>>57328749
I guarantee you are eating gmos every day if you eat anything made with tomatoes or corn.

>>57329004
>chromosome split in half and reconstituted with a separate organism's halved chromosomes
Fucking affront to nature I tell you hwat

>>57329055
that's the msm narrative

>>57329019
I mean, we've been trying this with many types of organisms.
It's about locating the gene for certain traits and making changes, I don't see how it's not safe.

>>57329060
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrea_Rossi_(entrepreneur)

He's a conman with a series of scams in his history.

>>57329066
GMOs still use pesticides & herbicides you dumb mong, and they absorb more of the chemicals since they are hesitant to the effects.

>>57329041
i'm on your side and this post still feels cringy.

>>57328898
>huffington post
Oh my god you can't be serious
Next you're gonna post 12 shocking things you didn't know about GMOs

>>57329065
Oh my god you're actually too stupid to insult

>>57329095
They don't use organic pesticides is his fucking point.

>>57329094
>wiki as a source
You shjills really are desperate.

This shit can be edited by anybody.

Plus there are other scientist who are working on cold fusion, and its been witnessed before in stars and on earth on the atomic level

http://coldfusionnow.org/what-is-cold-fusion/

>>57329120
Organic pesticides are worse

>>57329120
Whats the big difference , they're both toxic to organisms you stupid peasant.

>>57329095
>GMOs still use pesticides & herbicides
BUT WAY, WAY, WAY, WAY LESS OF THEM.

https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/science-sushi/httpblogsscientificamericancomscience-sushi20110718mythbusting-101-organic-farming-conventional-agriculture/
https://www.geneticliteracyproject.org/2015/12/07/myth-busting-on-pesticides-despite-demonization-organic-farmers-widely-use-them/

>and they absorb more of the chemicals since they are hesitant to the effects.
>HURR DURR CHEMICALS
Chemicals is a word that doesn't mean shit, you flaming faggot. Everything is a chemical, even the water in your fucking body.

And no, they do not "absorb more of the chemicals", you just claimed that they were even more resistant against them. Make up your fucking mind.

Again, the scientific consensus on GMOs are even stronger than it is on climate change. But sure some conspiracy retard on /g/ probably knows better, right?

>>57329091
i don't believe gene splicing is bad inherently but the long term affects it has on the environment and population, especially as a major food source, put it in a very risky place and it takes time to realize. Say you want to make a bigger tomato, it doesn't involve anything out of the ordinary genetically, but say you want to make that tomato grow chemicals poisonous to certain species in the environment you run into a huge ethical problem as far as both food consumption and environmental fallout.

>>57329123
>This shit can be edited by anybody.
Wrong, but nice attempt at discrediting Wiki, because having 1 highly biased source is than having 1000milloon unbiased once.

>>57329134
difference is that organic pesticides are bad for the consumer, farmer, plants and soil.

>>57329134
>Whats the big difference , they're both toxic to organisms you stupid peasant.
One gives you cancer, the other one is proven safe.

>>57329147
>because having 1 highly biased source is than having 1000milloon unbiased once.
Your grammar is as much shit as whats in between your ears.

>>57329140
>hur chemicals

Look you dumb shit I know everything is a chemical, but you avoided my point with that strawman.

Round up ready plants absorb more glyphosate than non gmo plants you stupid pedantic fuck.

>>57328073
GMO isn't bad by itself
GMO being used to produce seedless crops is the most Jewish thing imaginable tho

>>57329157
>difference is non monsanto pesticides are bad for the soil

>>57329160
>round up
>proven safe

Found the shills.

>>57329175
>Your grammar is as much shit as whats in between your ears.

Good job, on bringing your highest intellectual arsenal, ad hominem!

>>57328073
Selective breeding results in a GMO. All organic food is a GMO.

>>57329189
Its not ad hominem. If you can't make a coherent point then your argument is de facto shit.

Anti-GMOs are luddite hipsters who enjoy watching African kids starve to death.

>>57329126
listen i think the language has to be cleared up here, honestly the "organic" pesticide kind of gives the impression that its "safe to eat" or could mean its an organic compound (meaning carbon-based) which could be a whole string of nasty things, honestly the best pesticide is probably lightly soapy (in the biodegradable sense) water, or another predator insect.

>>57329188
>monsanto
Do they even do pesticides or is it just name you like to throw around because it's only GMO related thing you know?

>>57329175
>Round up ready plants absorb more glyphosate than non gmo plants you stupid pedantic fuck.

https://www.geneticliteracyproject.org/2015/01/22/gmo-myth-farmers-drown-crops-in-dangerous-glyphosate-fact-they-use-eye-droppers/

>>57329200
Yes it is, attacking character of the person behind the point and not the point is ad hominem.

>>57329203
pro-GMO shills are assholes who want kids in africa to starve unless they can come up with royalty checks.

>>57329207
>what is bt corn

You shills are seriously fucking useless.

>>57329203
This

>>57329222
Doesn't make your argument any more coherent or pertinent you frog poster.

>>57329233
bt corm is GMO maize not a pesticide.

>>57328166
I guess you dont like birds?

>>57329215
>what is anecdotal evidence.

>>57329247
Doesn't matter, you on other hand have no argument.

Vaccines do not cause autism
Nuclear power is safe, efficient and clean
GMOs are perfectly safe
Climate change is real
Evolution is an observable process

If you disagree with any of these, you are a scientific illiterate who needs to fuck off back to /b/.

>>57329260
They addressed that by using inefficient, slow, thin wind wakers

>>57329260
not really. they depress me a lot when I haven't gone to bed yet and I hear them chirping.

>>57329251
http://guardianlv.com/2014/03/monsantos-pesticides-are-partly-responsible-for-the-collapse-of-the-bee/

kys :^)

>>57329207
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monsanto
>"The company once manufactured controversial products such as the insecticide DDT, PCBs, Agent Orange and recombinant bovine growth hormone."
>"Glyphosate herbicides"


Honestly can't make this shit up.

>>57329289
>https://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/Guardian-Liberty-Voice-Reviews-E839239.htm

>>57329269
>Climate change is real
lel this faggot.

Maybe, but there's no evidence that mankind is the primary factor.

Even if CO2 was so damaginf, then just plant more trees instead of regulating energy and taxing people, seems like a backwards solution to an engineered problem.

But you shills will continue to shill because you need those few shekels.

Are there any open source GMOs? Patented gene sequences make me very uncomfortable.

>>57329269
>GMOs are perfectly safe
>If you disagree with any of these, you are a scientific illiterate who needs to fuck off back to /b/.
You are a scientific illiterate then, because the problem with GMOs is precisely the fact we need to 'wait and see' because there are no relevant long term studies due to how new they are.

>>57329289
this pisses me off, when i grew up my dad was actually a bee-farmer, most of our money came from honey production, then within the span of three years 70% of them all died because of the changes farmers made in their crops.

>>57329289
>Liberty Voice Article
>By Natalia Sanchez
If that's true, it would be a big deal, Shirley you could find a better source than a Facebook ad

>>57328749
>engineer food
learn what GMO is, it's just fucking picking the best crop or animal for further breeding, we have been doing it for thousands of years you fucktard

>>57329303
>attacking the source
>not the arguemnt

Classic ad hominem faggot. You haven't refuted anything in that article.

Stay mad, shill.

>>57329311
Yes, but none of the profitable ones are up for grabs

>>57329314
>You are a scientific illiterate then, because the problem with GMOs is precisely the fact we need to 'wait and see' because there are no relevant long term studies due to how new they are.
>no relevant long term studies

https://www.geneticliteracyproject.org/2014/07/22/debunking-claims-of-no-long-term-and-independent-gmo-studies/

Get rekt.

>>57329310
>Maybe, but there's no evidence that mankind is the primary factor.
There is overwhelming evidence.

>Even if CO2 was so damaginf, then just plant more trees instead of regulating energy and taxing people, seems like a backwards solution to an engineered problem.
Nobody said anything about taxing, faggot. I agree, we should go all in nuclear to cut CO2 emissions right now.

>>57329320
There are tons of articles out there. Anyone who isnt a shill or flaming retard can easily google "Colony collapse and Monsanto" or "effects of Monsanto's pesticides on bees"

>combining all of the shitty bait topics into one thread
This entire thread is a massive shit.

>>57329326
ad hominem is attacking person behind the point.
saying "here is evidence that this proof that you have provided is not very credible" is not ad hominem.

>>57328540
you have some weird notion of middle eastern immigrants.

people that seek temporary seasonal employment under a work visum then go back and live off their earnings for a year, have existed for a long time and they used regular phonecalls back then to relay to their families back home that they were not dead.

And it's not like the majority of syrians or whatever are goat herders that can't find europe on a map they're mostly just regular citydwelling office workers and craftsmen, except their economy collapsed. What kind of view of these people do you have?

It's a two bladed sword though, usually most of the countries around the EU have their upsides. E.g. low tax rates on cars or housing even in busy cities have no mortgages that you would have to spend 1/4 of your life to pay.

>>57329344
>There is overwhelming evidence.
That mankind is the primary factor behind GCC? Really all the evidence I see point to the sun being the main factor.

CAre to disprove me, shill?

>>57329326
He's right though, if that article had an ounce of truth anywhere in it (which I hope it does), there would be a much reliable source.
Like you're definitely in the wrong here, that is absolutely not a reputable source at all and I'm sure you could find another easily

>>57329346
https://www.geneticliteracyproject.org/2014/12/19/bee-experts-shred-harvard-neonics-colony-collapse-disorder-study-upbraid-journalists-for-activist-science/

>>57329350
You did attack the source though, without providing any evidence.

Are you legitimately retarded?

>>57329346
Well I'm not going to and I doubt anywhere here (including yourself apparently) will

>>57329359
>Really all the evidence I see point to the sun being the main factor.
Yes, if you're going to be pedantic, then technically yes, because of the greenhouse effect. However, it is proven beyond any doubt that humans have influenced it:

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/video/2016/aug/16/i-brought-the-graph-brian-cox-and-malcolm-roberts-debate-climate-change-on-qa-video

>>57329368
You just posted this shill site. ITs all for GMOs.ITs not unbiased at all.

Might as well post motherjones.

>>57329376
I showed my reason to disregard source as "credible", are you legally retarded?

>>57329387
How about refuting any of the actual points, instead of just dismissing it as a "shill site"?

Btw here are the guys behind it: https://www.geneticliteracyproject.org/our-team/

>>57329368
http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2014/05/19/does-this-study-prove-monsanto-company-is-killing.aspx

>>57329394
Posting a review site full of anecdotes isn't refuting shit you stupid mongoloid,.

Anti-GMO neohipster, please fuck off. This is a TECHNOLOGY board, a minimum of scientific literacy is required to post here.

>>57329387
Problem with "it's biased for GMOs" argument is, science is pro-GMO and yet to find any negative thing about it.

So if peer-reviewed papers are pro it, why shouldn't science advocating website do opposite?

>>57329410
How about you refute the points in the original article I posted first, then I'll refute your stupid shill site.

>>57329413
I didn't refute anything.
I told you, "find a better source I do not trust this one"

Have you ever had a conversation with human beans outside of internet?

>>57329368
>this article was originally posted on huffington post
>proceeds to lay out a 3-page essay rekking huffpost garbage
The future looks bright

>>57328121
>Nuclear power wouldn't be bad if it was fusion
Fission is the safest form of large scale power production. Not comparing the two, im saying compared to all other methods known today. Large scale means one facility for many thousands of residential commercial and industrial needs, so we'll disregard solar farms, hydro and wind here. Anything that makes steam turn a turbine in a list and nuclear fission is the safest by a WIDE margin.
Fusion reactors currently have a deficit in output. Only large scale fusion reactions can sustain themselves. they may or may not be safer but the tech will have to yet dangerous before it is useful.

>>57329447
Why do you only look at the source and not the actual facts? Is it because you're afraid that you're wrong?

Probably is. You shills always obfuscate when faced with the facts.

>>57329413
>http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2014/05/19/does-this-study-prove-monsanto-company-is-killing.aspx

Did you even bother reading it before posting it? You could have spared yourself the embarrassment if you did.

>After reading through Randy Oliver's argument discussing the numerous flaws with Lu's study and the study itself, I don't think the researchers found anything of value. At this point, we cannot say that neonics alone are the leading contributor to honey bee population declines.
>At this point, we cannot say that neonics alone are the leading contributor to honey bee population declines.

>That doesn't necessarily let Bayer and Syngenta off the hook for their use of neonics, or Monsanto for its use of pesticides that could have unintended effects on honey bees, but investors and consumers need to remember that multiple factors play a role in fluctuating bee populations.
>multiple factors play a role in fluctuating bee populations.

>Parasitic fungi, parasitic mites, pesticides, temperature, and more likely combine to put pressure on honey bee colonies -- so it's irresponsible to focus on any one culprit in this case.

>>57328946
We've been using X-ray mutagenesis on crops since the 20s, which is far less targeted than directly modifying genes. It's pretty much impossible to avoid GMO foods.

>>57329463
Show me the facts then, not website that is not trust worthy.

>>57329463
The site he posted was loaded with facts, and was very clear on what was somebody's opinion and what was measured statistic

Its also very obvious that there are about 4-5 monsanto shill posters here because every time a proGMO post is added, the unique userIDs don't go up.

>>57329449
Indeed.

>>57329467
>>57329473
This is a win for integrity
This is a win against "huffington post science"

>>57329473
THe facts are in the website which you refuse to looks at.

Don't blame me if you want to be blind and how is that site untrustworthy?

>>57329486
>mosanto shill posters
I don't like Mosanto, but that's mostly because I distrust megacorporations. The science on GMOs, however, is pretty clear.

File: f1860111-e84f-45ee-ac75-236e78b7692b.gif (754KB, 1008x720px) Image search: [Google]

754KB, 1008x720px

Some serious shit-flinging in this thread.

>>57328990
A few things actually, not all GMOs are as good as their organic counterparts, some GMOs tie you to a company's pesticides, it also seems that they're not "open-source" and companies like Monsanto and Dupont will have you by the balls once you start planting their seeds.

http://www.gmwatch.org/gm-firms/10558-the-worlds-top-ten-seed-companies-who-owns-nature

Also do a search for Indian farmer suicides.

Most problems have to do with agreements, money and companies surrounding GMOs, not the GMOs themselves.

Disclaimer: I am not against GMOs.

>>57329512
>>57329512
lol same shill faggot.

UniqueID stays the same everytime you post Pro GMO bullshit.

If the science is pretty clear then why is there debate within the scientific community and why are countries banning the cultivation of GMOs?

>>57329512
This
GMOs have never been the problem, it's large companies using GMOs and taking advantage of the various laws to create a monopoly in agriculture (something that has literally been used to define what the opposite of monopoly was, veggie economics)

>>57328073
gmo. nuclear does have some drawbacks so at least there's that. gmo pretty much doesn't

>>57329527
I don't see any debate in the scientific community
I blame huffington post for the hacktivism

>>57329527
>calling out a samefag
>by linking to the same post
What are you trying to prove here?

> the science is pretty clear then why is there debate within the scientific community
There isn't. The scientific consensus on GMOs is STRONGER than it is on climate change.

>and why are countries banning the cultivation of GMOs?
This is a myth. Just because some countries happened to ban CERTAIN crop cultures, doesn't mean that they banned ALL cultivation of GMOs.

Also, when did politics that aim to protect and subsidise local farmers become anything related to science?

>>57329521
That sounds like the government doing a poor job rather than something wrong with GMOs.

>>57329549
https://www.independentsciencenews.org/health/growing-doubt-a-scientists-experience-of-gmos/

THis guy actually worked on GMOs and says THEY ARE DANGEROUS!!

Also why won't monsatan scientists allow GMO foods in their cafeterias? Surely they are ludites for not wanting scientific progress.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/gm-foods-not-served-in-monsanto-cafeteria-1.173403

>>57329565
>There isn't. The scientific consensus on GMOs is STRONGER than it is on climate change.
Got proof, shill faggot??

>by linking to the same post
I accidentally hit the link button twice, calm down.

Also see:
>>57329584

>>57329521
What do I care if some pooinloo kills himself because he can't compete against GMOs? There's like a billion of the fuckers anyway and if they're replaced by farmers using more efficient GMOs, all the better.

>>57329602
>Got proof, shill faggot??
Yes, I have

https://www.geneticliteracyproject.org/2015/01/29/pewaaas-study-scientific-consensus-on-gmo-safety-stronger-than-for-global-warming/

http://allianceforscience.cornell.edu/blog/mark-lynas/gmo-safety-debate-over

http://www.crediblehulk.org/index.php/2015/11/22/the-international-scientific-consensus-on-genetically-engineered-food-safety/

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/why-people-oppose-gmos-even-though-science-says-they-are-safe/

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jon-entine/post_8915_b_6572130.html

>Also see:
What ever they serve in one (of multiple) cafeterias is hardly a proof of anything. The contracting company they might have hired may be a bunch of retards for all we know.

It is common for companies to hire other companies to serve in their cafeterias these days, which is the case here as well.

im actually not against the science of it, but when you have companies like monsanto its hard to believe they'd do the ethical thing in any case. The topic is still debated, and is monetarily motivated as well, but no one should be really gun ho about pesticides or hybridized strains that take over existing populations at that.

>>57328073
Both are good.

>>57329584
All his problems he posted were in the political process of GMOs, farmers being lazy, weak long-term testing and the economic backstabbing of copyrighted plants.
The only complaint he actually has with GMOs directly seems to have little basis (this chemical has an ion that is an ion for a dangerous compound) and none of his GMO-specific complaints have any proof other than (I'm sure reasonable) speculation
Still, with no proof directly against the use of GMOs, this remains an opinion piece, with the only facts to not like large company business practices

>>57329675
>but when you have companies like monsanto its hard to believe they'd do the ethical thing in any case
No one here is saying that you should not take Monsantos word for it, but you should take peer-reviewed articles posted in high-esteemed scientific journals about it seriously.

>The topic is still debated, and is monetarily motivated as well
The debate is a philosophical, economical and political one, not so much a scientific one. It is proven beyond any doubt that not only are GMOs safe, but they also feed more people and require less pesticides and herbicides.

>>57329702
>It is proven beyond any doubt that not only are GMOs safe, but they also feed more people and require less pesticides and herbicides.
In the general case, that is. I'm sure there are examples of specific breeds of crops that are bad for you, or specific farmer's practices that is harmful for either the consumer or the environment. But in a broad, general case, they are safe.

>>57329641
>posting editorials and opinion pieces all biased sites

>shitting on huffpo earlier but using it as a source when it suits your agenda

>not having a retort to monsanto scientists not eting GMOs

>not refuting the scientists who worked on GMO saying their safety is questionable

lel nice try.

Also huffpo is shit. I never used it.

>>57329641
>Got proof, shill faggot??

>Yes, I have

REKT

>>57329702
>It is proven beyond any doubt that not only are GMOs safe
FALSE

http://naturalsociety.com/800-scientists-global-gmo-experiment-stop/

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/can-we-trust-monsanto-with-our-food/

>>57329746
>scientific american
>biased site
I'm not sure how to respond to that. Also, all of the articles actually link to various surveys and studies. But I guess you're free to be a luddite and dismiss them all because you don't like their conclusion.

>not having a retort to monsanto scientists not eting GMOs
There is one in the very article you posted.

The Sutcliffe Catering group makes vegetarian food for neo-hippie hipsters.

>not refuting the scientists who worked on GMO saying their safety is questionable
I didn't because anon here (>>57329693) already pointed out that the scientist's problems with GMOs are political ones, and not about the safety or science of GMO.

>>57328893
>I do NOT want to eat them,

I hope you've never eaten corn or tomatoes in your life, because unless you were born prior to 1920, you've never seen natural corn or tomatoes.

>>57329746
>biased site
>scientific discussion
Confirmed, science is "bias" to anti-whateverers, who knew?

>>57329747
>>57329641
Same fag.

Also I've seen you redditor monsanto shills before. You never have any arguemnts. All you do is post articles and then proclaim yourselves victorious.

But if you look at arguments from both sides, the only logical conclusion is to allow people to choose whether they prefer mass production of monocultured food or they prefer another way of growing food.

You can't possibly be against labeling? And allowing people to choose what crops they want to grow?

>>57329814
>not making your salsa out of nightshade and grass

>>57329780
>https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/can-we-trust-monsanto-with-our-food/
This is about the potential problem of relying on a company with economical motives for pushing research, not at all about the actual science behind GMOs.

Also, you should read the conclusion before posting:

>What are the facts? Monsanto and the other big ag-biotech companies have developed reliable, biologically insect-resistant and herbicide-tolerant commodity crops that benefit people, farmers and the environment, and are nutritionally identical to their non-GM counterparts.

>GM insect-resistant crops contain a gene that codes for a bacterial protein that’s toxic to an insect pest, but not animals or people. Insecticides are toxic chemicals that kill insects indiscriminately, both harmful and beneficial. They’re also poisonous to other animals—people included. Insect-resistant crops have reduced insecticide use. Biological solutions for insect pest problems were Rachel Carson’s dream.

>Insect-resistant GM corn also decreases human and animal exposure to mycotoxins, highly toxic and carcinogenic compounds made by fungi. The fungi that produce mycotoxins follow insects into plants; insect-resistant plants have no insect holes for fungi to enter and therefore no mycotoxins.

>Monsanto developed GM crops that tolerate a nontoxic herbicide called glyphosate, aka Roundup. Herbicide-tolerant crops have made a major contribution to decreasing topsoil loss by facilitating no-till farming. This farming method reduces CO2 emissions from plowing and improves soil quality.

As you see, the article is clearly very POSITIVE towards Monsanto and GMOs in general.

Once again, I suggest that you actually read articles before posting them.

>>57328073
Anti Nuclear since there is a lot of hypocrisy in that group. I could have sworn that green faggots loved nuclear a few years ago. Anti GMO people are just conspiracy theorists except this time they don't have a shred of valid evidence against it other than the testimonies of butthurt farmers who can't read contracts and Facebook image macros appealing to their feelings. "The fluoride in the water is turning us gay" has more valid research than any anti GMO group has put out. However the anti GMO people will just go buy "organic" food and lie about how it's better while the anti nuclear people will have us relying on fossil fuels, which they also hate.

Of course Green Peace did lie about GMOs to Africans which indirectly caused the starvation to get worst when they had a clear way to reduce it (GMOs) but who cares about Africa?

>>57329843
If you have to pay for copyrighted seeds you should label them.
If not, you shouldn't.
I mean you are a fucking retard but at least we can all agree that GMO business is much worse than GMO food

>>57329863
Not the seeds you stupid fuck, the food, whether its plant or GMO salmon that was just recently released.

>>57329843
>All you do is post articles
Are all those pesky studies and facts bothering you anon?

>But if you look at arguments from both sides, the only logical conclusion is to allow people to choose whether they prefer mass production of monocultured food or they prefer another way of growing food.
I would agree, except """"organic"""" farming is extremely harmful to
1) the economy, because it relies heavily on subsidies
2) the environment, because it relies heavily on toxic herbicides and insecticides
3) efficiency, because instead of feeding the millions of people that are starving, we instead waste time and money on buying "short travelling" food from local farmers and ARTISANS so veggie hipsters can feel smug about themselves


>You can't possibly be against labeling?
I never said I was. In fact, I said I was for labelling: >>57329066

>And allowing people to choose what crops they want to grow?
People can grow whatever crops they want. The problem is that the organic food industry is heavily subsidised and millions of tax payers money are currently being wasted on it.

>>57329849
I wish more people was like this poster.

>>57329780
>https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/can-we-trust-monsanto-with-our-food/
>not reading the link before posting
>posting links based on the headline

You are beyond retarded

File: 1393463132383.jpg (130KB, 530x692px)

130KB, 530x692px

>>57329903
>the environment, because it relies heavily on toxic herbicides and insecticides
But Roundup isn't? Is that why Indian farmers use it to commit suicide?

>the economy, because it relies heavily on subsidies
[citation needed]

> efficiency, because instead of feeding the millions of people that are starving, we instead waste time and money on buying "short travelling" food from local farmers and ARTISANS so veggie hipsters can feel smug about themselves

THis is a retarded argument. You are acting as if they government would spend money on feeding africans instead of americans if those "subsidies" were taken away (even if they take up as much of the economy as you say, which I doubt is true). Even if your facts are right or not misleading the whole premise of that argument is retarded.

>I never said I was. In fact, I said I was for labelling

Yeah, but you made it explicitly clear in the most smug of redditor ways that it was not for food, just for the organic pesticides, which just means carbon based, you retard.

>>57329963
kys monsanto shill or get a real job you useless fuck.

>>57328749
Do Humanity a favor and select yourself out of the gene pool.

>>57329995
>Is that why Indian farmers use it to commit suicide?
Read your own article

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/can-we-trust-monsanto-with-our-food/


>If the popular mythology about farmer suicides, tumors and toxicity had an ounce of truth to it, these companies would long since have gone out of business. Instead, they’re taking more market share every year. There's a mismatch between mythology and reality. Maybe it's worth remembering that technology vilification is about as old as technology itself. What's new is electronic gossip and the proliferation of organizations that peddle such gossip for a living.

>[citation needed]
http://www.forbes.com/sites/henrymiller/2015/09/23/why-does-government-give-favors-and-subsidies-to-organic-agriculture-follow-the-money/#60fdd4c12578

http://smallbusiness.chron.com/government-grants-new-organic-farms-12458.html

It's the case in other countries:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/jul/01/farm-subsidies-blatant-transfer-of-cash-to-rich

http://ec.europa.eu/environment/integration/research/newsalert/pdf/161na4_en.pdf

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/organic-farming-how-to-get-certification-and-apply-for-funding

http://muvsi.in/organic-farming-subsidy-entrepreneurs/

https://www.indiafilings.com/learn/subsidy-for-organic-farming-in-india/

>. You are acting as if they government would spend money on feeding africans
No, I'm talking about STARVING AMERICANS you fucktard.

http://www.worldhunger.org/hunger-in-america-2015-united-states-hunger-and-poverty-facts/

>Yeah, but you made it explicitly clear in the most smug of redditor ways that it was not for food, just for the organic pesticides, which just means carbon based, you retard.
"Just" carbon based is a whole bunch of nasty shit, anon.

Anything from oil to plastic to alcohol is basically "carbon based".

Also, "organic pesticides" I mean ALL pesticides allowed in organic agriculture: https://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~lhom/organictext.html

>>57328073

GMO's are mostly bad when corporations get greedy and start genetically modifying things with no concern for the effects on human health. Protip: corn and soy will hurt you. Also, modern day banana's have mostly been bred to their ripe size, has barely anything to do with modification.

How is this /g/ reality and not /sci/ related?

>>57328718
But one day it'll happen

>>57330101
>technology does not belong on the technology board

>>57328169
Poor people are too poor to afford GMO seeds or food.
Major consumers of GMO products are developed contries, yet 40% of produced foods in the US goes to the garbage bin.

>>57330017
It's ironic that you are calling me a shill, when YOU posted the goddamn Pro-Mosanto link yourself.

>>57330129
But then you also have anti-scientific eco terrorists like Greenpeace:

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2002/oct/17/gm.famine1

>>57328749
Why the fuck would we want to spend millions on a cure to a minor disease that cures itself within a week?

>>57328825
>Andrea Rossi
He's a known crank, and has been for decades.

>>57328148

You must think eating bleached white bread is okay too then? That stuff makes my allergies spike through the roof and nearly give me a sneezing seizure if I eat it during the summer.

Organic bread also happens to be the healthiest, even regular whole wheat seems to contain tons of artificial shit like glucose-fructose. If it's any indication of things, then non-GMO is probably slightly healthier as well.

>>57328870
"Common Sense" is most commonly a term for "No Understanding Of The Topic At Hand."

>>57328166
Here in NY we have enough wind that it MIGHT be worth it but in the majority of the US it would be useless.

>>57328541
>Chechenia is next to Russia
nice education, amerifat

>>57328749
>there are people on 4chin right now who believe this unironically

>>57329060
This is the same Andrea Rossi who wrapped an electric kettle in duct tape and said it was an infinite energy device.

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>anti-nuclear "muh scary green stuff"
>anti-vaccine "muh autism"
>anti-capitalists "muh poor people"
>anti-meat "muh calves"
>anti-GMO "muhnsanto"
>anti-smartphones "muh socializing"
>anti-sex "muh degeneracy"

>>57330170
Have you ever been to plains?

The wind literally never stops there.

>>57329376
You're an idiot. That's ad hominem.
Attacking the source info is not ad hominem, it's basic argumentation. Attacking your claims/info is how the other side starts their argument you literal retard.

>>57328457
Those wanks cut out a shitload of safety checks to build it on the cheap.
I am not sure if they are being investigated over it or not. Never really cared past that part.

Nuclear, just like any potentially dirty power source, should be safety checked out the fucking ass.
Bureaucracy be damned, it still prevents stupid shit and is needed in these cases.

That massive oil leak was horrific, but it still wasn't as bad as the ol Chernobyl. (which even itself was only really bad in nearby regions on top-soil)

The one thing I would like to see more of is research in to smaller, mostly automated reactors.
There was one company working on a small one the size of a house that would be able to power a small town for a while, but the NRC killed it so fucking hard.
No explanation, just fucking ded.

>>57328990
Proprietary seeds

Fucking climate change deniers, or just as bad, those who are ignoring it.

Even the whole fucking left has forgotten about climate change because issues like "muh safe space" are easier to focus on. We are fucked.

>>57330192
>>57330159
Fuck you he is a genius that invented cold fusion and anyone saying anything against that is just a envious scientist

You're just back-pedaling because you were told

>>57330310
What have you done to reduce green house gasses emissions, mister? Do you use commute train, metro, tram or bus on daily basis? Do you live in a city apartment with central steam heating? Do you eat only vegetable foods? How often do you fart?

>>57330382
I've worked on energy-efficient materials research in a government lab.

>>57330310
Faggots that deny climate change are usually the retards that live near the equator that complain if the temperature changes 0.0005C.

In my region alone, living near the ocean along where loads of rivers hit the sea near a rail road, the changes I've seen over the years are insane.
There used to be a walkway under a bridge that was used quite a lot. it is now almost always flooded.

The weather this year has been so horribly unpredictable.
We had one of the hottest days near the end of summer. There was snow the day before it.
I've not even seen snow during winter since like, fuck, 2010 I think, yeah, the year "the UK froze".

The whole damned climate system has BROKEN. We can no longer make long-term predictions.
Weather is now drastically changing over the space of half a day even in usually calm regions.

Oddly enough, we've already seen these patterns before in ice cores.
These patterns happen for a few centuries or so, before the whole thing implodes and ice ages happen.

Rev up those fucking friers, cars, buses, trains, planes and plantains.
Burn this Earth so we can have a white wasteland. It'll be better than an irradiated one thanks to NATO and Russia playing the 10 year old game of "measure your piss stream" in the toilets.

>>57330382
Not him, but
>Do you use commute train, metro, tram or bus on daily basis?
Yes, but mostly because public transport is heavily subsidised and road tolls, petrol taxes and other taxes on cars are insanely high in addition to it being impossible to park in the city.

>Do you live in a city apartment with central steam heating?
Yes. The city municipal government has mandated that all apartment buildings within a certain radius of the city centrum must have this.

>Do you eat only vegetable foods?
No, but we do have two days of "green days" per week at the cafeteria at work, where only vegetarian and vegan food is served. This is not required by the municipal government, but is strongly recommended and catering businesses that do this get tax reliefs.

>How often do you fart?
Probably a couple of times during the day?

Anti-GMO has a point about Monsanto being evil jews but they conflate that jewry with the entire practice. Anti-nuclear is just retarded.

>>57330459
Indeed. I have no issues about criticising Monsanto for trying to monopolise the agricultural industry, bullying farmers, lobbying etc. But this should not be conflated with the science behind GMOs, which is very much sound.

>>57328073
The latter.

Anti-GMO will just persist hunger in poor nations.

Anti-nuclear power may just end humanity.

>>57328121
Miles Davis already invented Fusion.

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>>57330436
>Yes, but mostly because public transport is heavily subsidised and road tolls, petrol taxes and other taxes on cars are insanely high in addition to it being impossible to park in the city.
>Yes. The city municipal government has mandated that all apartment buildings within a certain radius of the city centrum must have this.

BAAAH SOCIALISM!!!!!!

>>57330436
>2 veggie-only days a week
>This is not required by the municipal government, but is strongly recommended and catering businesses that do this get tax reliefs.

What sort of commie hell-hole do you live in?

>corporations are able to patent life and DNA strands
where will you be when some fortune 500 patents literal DNA strands?
>I'm sorry, you have to pay us money per day to keep your children, they're using one of our patented technologies

>>57330521
>muh dead animals
I live in Iceland.

>>57330530
>having to pay royalties and get a license to breed
This is objectively a good thing

We need free (libre) GMOs, where anyone can get the DNA and modify it and distribute their own version. Like, if you buy corn, you get the DNA with it and can compile it and grow your own corn, make changes to your corn, distribute changed corn, understand how corn works, etc.

But then someone will port systemd to corn.

>>57330521
>>2 veggie-only days a week
For lunch, anon. For lunch.

>>57328621
Delete this post, that was debunked, the videos were misunderstood for a normal different animal.

>>57330560
>where anyone can get the DNA and modify it and distribute their own version. Like, if you buy corn, you get the DNA with it and can compile it and grow your own corn, make changes to your corn, distribute changed corn, understand how corn works, etc.
You can already do this.

>But then someone will port systemd to corn.
lost

>>57328073
>>GMOs are the problem
>not Monsanto
>>nuclear power is the problem
>not pressurized water reactors
Both are different versions of the "guns kill people" argument.

>>57328824
>uses the Daily Mail as a source
kek

>>57328749
an appeal to nature is fallacious pleb

>>57330161
>artificial
>glucose & fructose

>>57328749
>We can't cure the common cold yet
Get the common cold to kill some (more?) people.
Gonna be cured in weeks.

>>57328169
Agree on all those except the last one. How are you going to impact """""""""""climate change"""""""""""" enough to make a difference? More research = more entropy, and even at the best, we get like what 2, 3 extra years before the same shit happens? Climate change is purely a way for academia researchers to get funding on some shit that they cannot change the outcome of. Either ways, anything humans do has little to no impact compared to something 1 or 2 volcanoes can do.

>>57330580
That's some pretty bold attitude coming from someone posting on an anonymous forum for discussing underaged chinese girls depicted in taiwanese tapestry

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>>57328893
Enjoy your watermelon then.

>>57328718
How are your tentacles doing?

>>57330607
>get funding
Are you under the impression that climate scientists are well-funded?

Because you know all those scientists working for the oil industry, right? You do know that they have infinitely more funds, right? You do know that every single person in the congress' committee for science, space and technology, as in the committee that decides where funding should go, are bought by the oil and energy section, right?

>anything humans do has little to no impact compared to something 1 or 2 volcanoes can do.
There are like one volcano eruption every 100,000 years? Meanwhile, we could drop every single coal and gas powerplant and replace them all with nuclear power.

>>57330607
Actually, one useful avenue of research is to create food and housing that will survive the coming hundred years no matter the weather.

To create reliable closed ecosystems, aquaponics, aeroponics, hydroponics and everything in between.

>There are like one volcano eruption every 100,000 years?
lol

climate change isn't real, you guys

https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/earth_temperature_timeline.png

>>57329187
>GMO isn't bad by itself
>GMO being used to produce seedless crops is the most Jewish thing imaginable tho
This.

>>57330660
Those scientists would be shit-salary biologists/environmentalists instead, so yes they get much more if they are studying climate change.
http://www.gao.gov/key_issues/climate_change_funding_management/issue_summary

>>57330686
Yeah but those sorts of advances really are just part of technological advancements and less space/resources on the planet. Ancient Sci-fi books all had those sort of tech, it is just a matter of when the technology can be achieved for a reasonable cost.

>muh oil is bad
Yet another example of american education.
Don't you people know, that 70% of oil goes for plastics and other chemistry products? Only 30% is used for different fuels.

>>57329187
>muh it's not profitable to store your own crops, cheaper to buy them from muhsanto

>>57330734
>Federal funding for climate change research, technology, international assistance, and adaptation has increased from $2.4 billion in 1993 to $11.6 billion in 2014, with an additional $26.1 billion for climate change programs and activities provided by the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act in 2009

Meanwhile, the cost of ObamaCare is >trillion.

>>57330741
>70% of oil goes for plastics
Not a good thing, unless the US starts to recycle more. Most of that plastic is burned.

>>57330805
Recycling uses a ton of energy though. Think about the climate.

>>57330822
Touché.

>>57330734
You can build an aquaponics system that is fully automated in a back garden for very cheap.
And it can run itself mostly perfectly for quite a decent number of crops.
I've seen a guy automate his with a bunch of sensors and a Raspberry Pi. Even tweets him if there is some catastrophic failure that it can't account for, or fix.


It is not the issue of reasonable cost, it is an issue of scaling it up to replace traditional farming that is the point of the research.
There is quite a few people doing this research now.

The biggest issues are temperature, moisture and light control.
Figuring out ways to do these efficiently in large facilities is what will make one group millions and the other billionaires.

Traditional farming is on its way out.
But the old backwards fucks will have none of it.
Not all farmers are shit and some are embracing these techniques on their own, but holy hell some of them are thick as fuck.

>>57330822
LASER. BEAMS. FROM. SPACE.
Fund it.
There is an (un?)fortunate by-product, free cooked birds.

>>57330805
How about making things that last long and don't need to be recycled often?

>>57330875

But then the big companies wouldn't sell as much, and we can't have that can we?

>>57330875
Why do you hate production companies? Are you a communist?

>>57330840
Would you fertilize it with your own shit or buy minerals from monsanto?
Would you dig your own well or use city plumbing?
Would you produce your own electricity from nuclear reactor or buy new Solar Cells (tm) from Tesla?

>>57330925
Answer to all 3: whatever is the cheapest.

C A P I T A L I S M !

>>57328377
When I read the news about the clearing of the Calais jungle there was a quote from a refugee "I am sure if I make it to england the government will give me a house"

And they call millenials entitled..

Oh, found it! http://www.fredericknewspost.com/public/ap/french-authorities-declare-the-calais-migrant-camp-empty/article_ce577e26-63e0-58b5-ab50-cae4f91c2913.html

Ctrl+F Binal

>>57330936
It is cheaper to buy frozen pizza at your local walmart.

>>57330972
But non-fresh Pizzas are always shit anyway.
Probably literally, at that.


In reality, an aquaponics system is insanely more efficient than traditional farming since there is no run-off or waste.
It is a closed system.
The only loss is the nutrients during growth and after harvest, and minor water loss from evaporation.

Just the power needs that need to be met.
You CAN build a farm that is completely open to the day star, but that also has its own problems you need to deal with.
We've been farming under huge plastic tents for decades to create controlled conditions, we've figured those parts out at least.

I've also seen some hilarious experiments where people have been growing trees in aquaponics systems.
WE FRUIT NOW.

>>57330972
>can't cook it because energy poverty
>forced to set up a campfire outside to heat it up
>police show up and take you away
here we are in 2016, a true golden age of humanity

>>57328457
dude fuck off, when TWO major forces of nature slam something hard, it'd be amazing if there wasn't any damage. but no, blame nuclear because a tidal wave and earthquake certainly didn't cause the damage.

>>57328715
didn't he fucking link one already?

>>57330158
it's apparently really deadly in Japan

>>57330951
Jesus fuck

>>57328783
I think the US and China have both achieved fusion that outputs more energy than put in, but not for very long. like 30 seconds?

>>57330166
>>57329045
>>57329015
>taking bait this hard