Linux users: >Here's why I like Linux: >It's

The problem is that GNU/Linux users blame their ineptitude with anything other than GNU/Linux on the OS rather than laying blame where it really belongs on themselves.

It's kind of funny seeing so many of these supposedly really "technically adept" types go all apeshit over people using Windows or OSX. My experience is that it's usually just their ego telling them that "No, you can't be bad at something relating to computers, so it has to be something other than you" to avoid having to admit that they only know how to use GNU/Linux.

Personally I dumped GNU/Linux for Windows around 2007 after a lot of torture and mental gymnastics tinkering with UNIX stuff in GNU/Linux, all my desktops have since then have run Windows.

At this point GNU/Linux has to me become "That OS the clueless, kids who want to play pretend sysadmin and those who think uploading their dotfiles to github makes them a 1337 programmer" use. Pretty much all the software I run into, even the obscure stuff like AVR Studio, Matlab, Quartus II, etc., run on Windows and many that are "Linux-only" can be used with cygwin/msys, VM or even built for Windows natively with a cross compiler.

>>57297022
I don't think you even read my post since you posted your pasta that quickly. I have listed many reasons why I think it is a good OS, it's not like I'm saying Linux is better because "I'm such a hacker".

A lot of Windows users post stuff like this:
>Linux stuff sucks! Proprietary software is much better!
But then contradict themselves with this:
>But you can install hacks like Cygwin to emulate a Linux environment to make Windows usable!
So which one is it?

>>57297022
Depends on the task you're trying to accomplish and the complexity of it. If the task is "here's some software, the OS needs to run it", and all the complexity is contained in that software and not the OS, Windows is generally simpler. (Exception: if the distro packages the software for you) If, on the other hand, you're trying to make a component of the OS do something other than what it does by default (Example: mucking with firewall rules) then you quickly reach a point with Windows where it starts getting in your way, and the main thing you want is what Linux gives you: A way to tell the OS "Shut up and do what I tell you".

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>>57297014

Idk, Windows 7 is better than any Linux distro I ever tried. Far less bugs, well polished, good lookng, runs my software (Office 2010 - Libre Office is good, but Base is garbage), Paint.Net (GIMP is unusable imo, the interface needs an overhaul), AIMP (best audio player. ever).

As for gaming I'm actually fine with what Linux offers. The only thing would be STALKER, but I've heared they're working on a port..

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>>57297014
The anniversary update was the last straw for me. I finally lost my shit after it broke Sandboxie and caused audio/video stuttering during games and 10-bit video playback.

After years of putting it off, I migrated and gave the middle finger to Office 365. I have learned LibreOffice and I see no problems getting my work done. No worries about random updates in the background raping my fps and sudden upgrades.

I still have to use Windows for Illustrator, but other than that yeah, I like it here on loonix.

I just want good fonts. Because I'm getting tired of these ubuntu ones.

>>57297268
>I just want good fonts. Because I'm getting tired of these ubuntu ones.
What do you mean? Just change them

>>57297275
Yeah I know. I just don't know about good fonts.

>>57297289
I think Roboto looks pretty good

>>57297289
Any *sans font looks good for me.

The average Windows user is illiterate. I mean, not just computer illiterate, but _plain_ illiterate:

>[System message] press any key to continue
>WAAAAHHHH WHAT SHOULD I DO COMPUTERS ARE HARD!

>>57297022
>The problem is that Windows users blame their ineptitude with anything other than Windows on the OS rather than laying blame where it really belongs on themselves.

>It's kind of funny seeing so many of these supposedly really "technically adept" types go all apeshit over people using Linux or OSX. My experience is that it's usually just their ego telling them that "No, you can't be bad at something relating to computers, so it has to be something other than you" to avoid having to admit that they only know how to use Windows.

>Personally I dumped Windows for GNU/Linux around 2007 after a lot of torture and mental gymnastics tinkering with NT stuff in Windows, all my desktops have since then have run GNU/Linux.

>At this point Windows has to me become "That OS the clueless, kids who want to play pretend sysadmin and those who think uploading their dotfiles to github makes them a 1337 programmer" use. Pretty much all the software I run into, even the obscure stuff like AVR Studio, Matlab, Quartus II, etc., run on GNU/Linux and many that are "Windows-only" can be used with Wine, VM or even built for GNU/Linux natively with a cross compiler.

What version makes more sense to be honest?

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>>57297014
>>57297022
>>57297108
>>57297120
>>57297169
>>57297191
>>57297268
>>57297275
>>57297289
>>57297308
>>57297324
>>57297327
>>57297332
'd just like to interject for moment. What you're refering to as Linux, is in fact, GNU/Linux, or as I've recently taken to calling it, GNU plus Linux. Linux is not an operating system unto itself, but rather another free component of a fully functioning GNU system made useful by the GNU corelibs, shell utilities and vital system components comprising a full OS as defined by POSIX.
Many computer users run a modified version of the GNU system every day, without realizing it. Through a peculiar turn of events, the version of GNU which is widely used today is often called Linux, and many of its users are not aware that it is basically the GNU system, developed by the GNU Project.
There really is a Linux, and these people are using it, but it is just a part of the system they use. Linux is the kernel: the program in the system that allocates the machine's resources to the other programs that you run. The kernel is an essential part of an operating system, but useless by itself; it can only function in the context of a complete operating system. Linux is normally used in combination with the GNU operating system: the whole system is basically GNU with Linux added, or GNU/Linux. All the so-called Linux distributions are really distributions of GNU/Linux!

>>57297191
Is LibreOffice really that good though? I still have my O365 subscription that I'm hesitant to let go of because I really like Office and know it like the back of my hand.

Despite all that, I'm running GNU/Linux on my laptop now and love it but the only thing that doesn't sit right with me is LibreOffice.

it's really simple to me

if you wanna fuck around with linux go for it, it's free

if you don't that's fine

if you are interested in PC Gaming you probably want to run Windows because that's where the games are

if you are interested in fucking around with Linux obv you should install Linux

and lots of the kids shitting on Windows don't understand there are people like me who've run windows since the 90's with no major hiccups or issues

I jumped ship not because Linux is better but because Microsoft started making tablet OS'es after 7 and I would rather not have a bullshit Television/ad machine. Don't play games anyways

and you bet i'm using Cinnamon DE and my Linux looks and feels just like Windows

>>57297014
>Linux users:
>>Here's why I like Linux:
>>It's Unix-like and therefore structured in a much better way than Windows

Unknown without seeing the windows source code.

>>Having a package manager is extremely convenient

I agree so I use chocolatey

>>I have a very useful and powerful shell

Powershell is goodish

>>I can make my desktop look and behave however *I* want it to

Doable with a bit of work

>>I have full control over my entire system

Yes indeed you do. Windows does not give this level of freedom.

>>I can have a bleeding-edge system with the latest software or a very stable system

Insider fills this gap

>>I can also have a very lightweight system

Windows can be debloated. This point depends on distribution used to have this benefit by default.

>>I will always recieve free updates and no shady company can control my system in any way

Try and update unbuntu 9.04, Windows 7 still gets updates.
>>The community makes decisions, not some shady company

Feedback is incorporated into Windows 10 throughout. Only a few elites (maintainers) have control over how the Linux kernel is shaped. Also I didnt want systemd, but I'm getting it rammed down my throat.

>>I know how my system works and how it is structured

This aids very few people because as long as a piece of technology works as intended, knowing the inner workings is not useful. Not everyone know how a car work, that's why there are mechanics.


>>I have the freedom to do anything I want with it

Again what use cases does this grant?
>>The list goes on and on.
>Windows users:
>>GAYMEZ!
>>How can Linux be good when it has no gaymen?

And that productivity software that gets shit done in the real world doesn't count?

>>57297169
For paint.net try pinta. Pretty much the same interface.

>>57297378

i'd like to add that I partitioned my hard drive in high school back in 97/98 and dual booted Windows 95 and a Red Hat Linux with xwindows to see what the fuss was all about. After a few months removed Linux because I could never get Linux to recognize my 33.6 winmodem and I frankly needed the hard drive space to play more games. Not all Windows users are ignorant and bad at computers, sometimes there is literally no reason to use Linux for some people

>>57297359
Depends which component you are using. Excel has no rival in the market but for basic spreadsheets, the formulas are interchangeable in LibreCalc. The problem occurs in pivot tables and drawing complex charts.

The Writer is quite good and especially the PDF export feature with lossless output is brilliant. My main issue was section breaks and page breaks to isolate formatting between pages and tables, I found a work around for that recently.

The major problem you will face is exchanging files with coworkers who use Offce as formatting and formulas will collapse when he opens your open format file. PDF is the workaround but if they need to edit your work, you are in trouble.

I refer to Youtube guides to replicate Office features on LibreOffice.

>>57297359
If you know MSO well you should stick with it, personally the reason why i use LO, if we ignore the price, is that the format is well documented. Microsoft pushes artificial incompatibility as an anticompetitive measure and to make the user depend on their products, by using open standards that are respected (unlike ooxml) i am the owner of my documents forever. The other reason is the fact i don't like to be married with a platform, so if for any reason i stop liking the software i like right now i know i'll be always be able to open correctly my documents regardless of the platform.

If you're interested there's a software called onlyoffice which i haven't tried but you may try it and tell us how good is the compatibility with MSO formats.

>>57297355
I'd just like to interject for moment. What you're refering to as GNU/Linux, is in fact, Autism/GNU/Linux, or as I've recently taken to calling it, Autism plus GNU plus Linux. GNU/Linux is not a philosophy unto itself, but rather another free component of a fully functioning autistic system made useful by the ausistic symptoms comprising a full mental disorder as defined by science.
Many people have a special form of autism every day, without realizing it. Through a peculiar turn of events, the version of autism which is widely common today is often called GNU/Linux, and many of its users are not aware that it is basically Linux.
There really is a GNU/Linux, and these people are using this name, but it is just a part of the autism they have. The name "GNU/Linux" is an essential part of this kind of autism, but useless by itself; it can only exist in the context of a complete autistic disorder.
The name "GNU/Linux" is normally used in combination with the symptoms of autism: the whole system is basically autism with the name "GNU/Linux" added, or Autism/GNU/Linux. All the so-called GNU/Linux distributions are really distributions of Linux!

>>57297437
>The major problem you will face is exchanging files with coworkers who use Offce as formatting and formulas will collapse when he opens your open format file.

Yeah, that's the biggest problem and it triggers me that Microsoft does this on purpose. What i do is convince my coworkers to use google docs when possible.

>>57297359
Office 2013 is supported by PlayonLinux and can be activated on Linux if you have license key. Most people make the mistake of running Wine directly.

PlayonLinux installs the necessary features and dependencies like Visual C++, IE11 and DirectX libraries to ensure the Windows application runs.

>>57297493
You can use Office 365 online in your browser. That is my workaround for exchange files with coworkers. I also use it for testing files between LibreOffice and MS Office. I believe it saves the Office files in your OneDrive and you can email them directly.

Google Docs is also good but not as feature rich.

>>57297014
I like Linux but this is equally as cherry-picked as a Hillary supporter finding reasons against Trump.

>>57297390
>Unknown without seeing the windows source code.
You can see how the system is structured without ever seeing the source code. It's basically how the whole system is organized.
>I agree so I use chocolatey
Which is garbage and not nearly as powerful as Linux package managers
>Powershell is goodish
Also trash compared to bash or other unix shells
>Doable with a bit of work
Nope. You can add a theme and rocketdock and that's pretty much it.
>Windows can be debloated.
But it can't be as lightweight as a very lightweight Linux distro
>unbuntu 9.04
I could upgrage to Ubuntu 16.10 right now
>Windows 7 still gets updates.
Doesn't get new features, and eventually will not recieve any more security updates.
>Feedback is incorporated into Windows 10 throughout
That doesn't mean that the users have control over the system.
>Only a few elites (maintainers) have control over how the Linux kernel is shaped.
Yeah but that's just the Kernel which includes all the drivers and stuff like that
>Also I didnt want systemd, but I'm getting it rammed down my throat.
This really sucks but there are distros without systemd

>>57297169
Not telling you to use linux but:
>Office 2010
works in wine
>Paint.Net
Version 3.5 works in wine perfectly
>AIMP
There's no shortage on good music players on linux and i haven't tried it on wine but it seems to be gold and platinum on winehq.
>The only thing would be STALKER, but I've heared they're working on a port.
IIRC that's because the code was leaked so i doubt there will be a linux port, at least not a legal one of that game.

>>57297014
Tl; fucking dr greentext garbage with "prove me wrong" attached - I don't care about your trash. Here's the REAL problem:

"People" on /g/ treat their OS as a badge of pride instead of a working environment, hence why we have a thread at least once EVERY DAY from "people" who don't actually do anything with their lives and/or have any actual hobbies. They rattle off lists of software they don't use, cry about how Microsoft Office is critical to their lives/cry about how LibreOffice is "just as good" even though I cannot find a SINGLE company that isn't tiny as fuck that would actually use it, and call each other poor computer users based on things that have never happened.

People who use Linux and/or Windows to do things couldn't care less about being able to rice a desktop or play all the hot new gaymes (protip: any new gaymes worth playing are very functional on Linux in the first place) since they're fully aware of the fact that it's fully possible to even have separate machines tailored to one's desires.

>>57297411
I am just thrilled that League of Legends is now fully supported on Ubuntu. Steam runs natively on Linux as well.

>>57297517
How complete is office 365? serious question, because i'm interested but i haven't tried the paid version.

>>57297562
I got free subscription from my university. It has Word, Excel, PowerPoint, Outlook, Publisher, OneDrive and some other gimmicks. I don't see Visio though.

>>57297553

>League of Legends is now fully supported on Ubuntu

what? Maybe I should get out of bed and go to my desktop that runs latest version of Ubuntu and see if you're bullshitting. it was such a pita to get League up and running on my mint laptop I haven't even tried on the tower

I run league using pol/wine on the laptop and it works well but still kinda buggy, often have to restart client after every game and I can't look at runes or do other shit while searching for game

>>57297479
>typical Windows user argumentation
Well, at least I'm surprised you're able to read - I bet you're considered a genius among Windows users.

>>57297757
I like Linux, I just think the name "GNU/Linux" is dumb

>>57297332
>What version makes more sense to be honest?
I'm voting for your version.

>>57297014
Nice blog, fag, you can now fuck off.

>>57297768
If there were an alternative to the GNU part, I would be all over it.

>>57297437
Excel has always been a weird one for me. I've found any task too complex for libreoffice calc is better served by writing a python program with sqlite than excel. Only really works for programmers though.

>>57298041
I tried looking at some code for excel macros(internal shit that our company runs) and holy shit let me code c or even asm than that shit.

>>57297547

1/2
>You can see how the system is structured without ever seeing the source code. It's basically how the whole system is organized.

So you're talking about the way you do things in the os, like say change a mouse setting? There's 1 (pre win 10) way and 2 ways (post win 10) to change these settings. In linux, there are multiple packages that allow you to do these all with varying degree of features. I know which one I'd rather use.

>Which is garbage and not nearly as powerful as Linux package managers

In what was is it less powerful? I can install and uninstall packages through them and they both can resolve depenancies for said packages. What else do I need a package manager to do?

>Also trash compared to bash or other unix shells

I've used powershell today to set up a full instance of nano server vm with iis and asp.net core on a linux host that I ssh'd into to enable kvm config for the vm. I enjoyed both experiences.

>Nope. You can add a theme and rocketdock and that's pretty much it.

There are complete replacments for explorer.exe allowing for a completely different look (Emerge Desktop or Sharpenviro), but there aren't as many possibilites as linux or bsd.

>But it can't be as lightweight as a very lightweight Linux distro

OP's point was that they can have a lightweight system, not the lightest. Windows can be light, but yes linux can be lighter because you have control of what linux is for you. Nano server is very lightweight, want to know how they did it? They removed a lot of shit..

>I could upgrage to Ubuntu 16.10 right now

So a completely new os version? If that's the case, I can upgrade to Win 10 and receieve updates and features for free too.

>>57297014
I thought the windows section would be a bit more mature, but this is /g/ after all. Many professionals are pretty much windows hostages because of their job. Most good commercial softwares are only on Windows.

>>57297547
2/2

>Doesn't get new features, and eventually will not recieve any more security updates.

9.04 doesn't receieve any of this now, but old software should eventually die. Hardware. if capable should not though.

>That doesn't mean that the users have control over the system.

No but they have a say in what they want the os to become, this is a new development for windows.

>Yeah but that's just the Kernel which includes all the drivers and stuff like that

Linux doesn't count in this post about how linux is superior to windows....

>This really sucks but there are distros without systemd

So I need to drop my current configuration to be rid of myself of a piece of software that has been deemed dangerous by a large portion of the community, just to then have this piece of software to become a required depenancy for any other software I use because it is assimilating other software into it? No. This is not acceptable.

>>57298341
>So you're talking about the way you do things in the os, like say change a mouse setting?
No, not at all. I'm talking about how the system is organized (the folder structure for example). The registry on Windows for example is a terrible mess. When you install a package on Linux, you can always execute it in your shell. Things like that.
>In what was is it less powerful?
It only has control over very few packages on your system. You couldn't update anything that's not in the repository, including Windows itself.
>I enjoyed both experiences.
Alright, but you can do much more with Unix shells.
>There are complete replacments for explorer.exe allowing for a completely different look
Sounds highly risky to me and it's also just a hack.
>Windows can be light, but yes linux can be lighter because you have control of what linux is for you.
I honestly don't really get your point here. Linux can be much more lightweight (like you said). Isn't that a pro for Linux?
>So a completely new os version?
There are also rolling release distros that only have one version, that way you can always update your system without "upgrading" to a new version.
>I can upgrade to Win 10 [...] for free too.
Not anymore.

>>57297022

You failed to rebut a single point the OP made.

>>57298430
>So I need to drop my current configuration to be rid of myself of a piece of software that has been deemed dangerous by a large portion of the community, just to then have this piece of software to become a required depenancy for any other software I use because it is assimilating other software into it? No. This is not acceptable.

This is true of all operating systems, except those such as windows where you can't even identify the dangerous processes and have no means to replace them even if you did.

>>57298430
>No but they have a say in what they want the os to become
Just no. Maybe they have a say in what they want the OS to look like or what kind of features they want but you couldn't tell Microsoft to do certain things fundementally different.
>Linux doesn't count in this post about how linux is superior to windows
I assumed that you would understand that I'm talking about Linux distributions, not just the Kernel. And the Kernel is completely free as in freedom so there's that
>No. This is not acceptable.
It's not like Windows is better in any way. I mean at least systemd is free, Windows is not. I can also say that this isn't acceptable, and with Windows you don't even have a choice.

>>57298456

>No, not at all. I'm talking about how the system is organized (the folder structure for example). The registry on Windows for example is a terrible mess. When you install a package on Linux, you can always execute it in your shell. Things like that.

I see, yes there are some questionable choices in windows. There are also some quesionable choices in linux too. I had a problem once where var was 100% full because it got clogged up by multiple versions of the kernal being installed. This caused the os to not launch, which isn't ideal.

>It only has control over very few packages on your system. You couldn't update anything that's not in the repository, including Windows itself.

I prefer that it can only control packages installed with it. But the os's are fundamentally different, so using a package manager to update linux makes sense as it is just a collection of packages. Windows has it's own built in tool to update. The tools are different but the outcome is the same.

> Alright, but you can do much more with Unix shells.

Maybe, but I've never had a problem using either and without any examples I cannot really say which is better. Both have their strengths and weaknesses.

>Sounds highly risky to me and it's also just a hack.

Doesn't make it less irrelevant.

> I honestly don't really get your point here. Linux can be much more lightweight (like you said). Isn't that a pro for Linux?

It is a pro for Linux, it's one of it's greatest traits that is a byproduct of being able to tailor the os to your needs. I understand Windows doesn't have this, but there are builds of Windows that are very light weight.

>There are also rolling release distros that only have one version, that way you can always update your system without "upgrading" to a new version.

They are just smaller upgrades over a shorter time. The difference is timeframe and the lack of a version.

>Not anymore.
You can get a copy of pro for $45, not breaking the bank is it?

>>57298540

>Just no. Maybe they have a say in what they want the OS to look like or what kind of features they want but you couldn't tell Microsoft to do certain things fundementally different.

Just like I cannot get debian to remove systemd, I have to go to alternative distros to get a systemd experience.

>I assumed that you would understand that I'm talking about Linux distributions, not just the Kernel. And the Kernel is completely free as in freedom so there's that

Apologies, my bad. The kernal being free is all well and good but if you do not have the skills needed to do what you want the kernal to do then this point is moot.

No. This is not acceptable.

With windows, you know that you're locked into a closed system. With linux, you know you're free to do what you want but that freedom is slowly being eroded. For me, the latter is most fustrating for the user.

Please disregard my price point, I know it was stupid.

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>>57297014
>Wuduws users

>>57298797
>But the os's are fundamentally different
True, but that's the point. I think it's much better how Linux works in this aspect.
>Doesn't make it less irrelevant.
It is less relevant though. Also, as you said, the operating systems are fundementally different here. There's a huge difference between a desktop environment being fully supported by the OS and used by the whole community, and being a risky hack that nobody really cares about.
>You can get a copy of pro for $45, not breaking the bank is it?
But breaking your freedom. That freedom includes using and modifying your system however you want.
>Just like I cannot get debian to remove systemd, I have to go to alternative distros to get a systemd experience.
That's true but the great thing is that there is always an alternative with Linux. Some people actually forked Debian and removed systemd. You couldn't do that with Windows.

>>57297014
Honest opinion from someone who's used both as a development platform for years:
>Linux has much more and much better community documentation (all of StackOverflow, tons of tutorials on everything, archwiki, etc.)
>Windows has higher-quality official documentation (MSDN)

>Linux has more packages and focuses on package management much more than Windows
>Windows' "a package manager for package managers" is, IMO, the "Right Thing"(tm) and scales better.
>too bad there's nothing for it scale with because nobody on Windows uses it

>many more choices in Linux for interactive shell, many tutorials
>all of them are fundamentally similar enough to be the same, the different ones (e.g., scsh's functional shell approach) are pretty much abandoned or lacking enough documentation to use as anything besides hobby shells
>Windows PowerShell blows bash and other Linux shells out of the water, turns out the OOP paradigm matches shell programming extremely well (encapsulating small stateful procedures is a good idea? Who knew amirite?)
>but has less documentation and is harder to get into

>Windows has better support for high-DPI screens and touchscreens than anything in Linux currently
>Windows has more "Professional" user-end software
>Linux has more "Professional" server-end software

>Linux config files are easier to edit
>Windows regedit is harder to edit and understand, but completely erases the problems with consistency and parsing that exists on Linux (no JSON vs. XML vs. YAML vs. hand-rolled config parsing that's different for every program, etc.)

>Linux has a shit-ton of driver issues if you're outside the "sweet spot" of hardware. Too old and you won't find anything in your repos and have to hunt by hand and hope it works, too new and they haven't been written yet.
>Windows uses Prolog to write/generate driver verifiers

They're both pretty good, honestly. If I had to bet on a long-term platform for developing on though, I think it might have to be Microsoft.

>>57298954
>Windows PowerShell blows bash
That's where you became ridiculous.

>>57298954
Oh, I forgot a real doozy:
>Linux has software you can download going back to the '80s and fiddle with
>no guarantee it will work, kernel development has moved so quickly that you're not guaranteed to be able to run the same low-level programs from five years ago
>but you can usually just recompile it, maybe with legacy switches
>Microsoft has 18+ binary compatibility, no need to recompile
>hard to find those programs and when you need them there's no community support

>>57299017
It's my honest opinion. Once you stop treating PowerShell like bash and use it for what it is it becomes a much better experience. How long have you used PS for on a daily basis? Outside of playing with cd/ls etc. obviously.

>>57299054
>Microsoft has 18+ binary compatibility, no need to recompile
There are a lot of applications that simply dont work on modern windows, even with compatibility mode.

>>57299054
I never a PS fan use it for everything. But I see a lot of people using only bash.

Typo, meant 18+ years of binary compatibility but I guess that was obvious.

>>57299078
That sucks, but even if there are "a lot", there's a lot more that do work than exist on Linux just because Windows bundles skeletal systems of previous kernel versions so something like compatibility mode can even exist. That's just not done on Linux. It's much easier to spin up a VM if you need something like that on Linux than it is on Windows though.

>>57298947


>True, but that's the point. I think it's much better how Linux works in this aspect.

For me and you, it is the better soloution. For the normal person? Windows one click button for updates is a far superior solotuion.

>It is less relevant though. Also, as you said, the operating systems are fundementally different here. There's a huge difference between a desktop environment being fully supported by the OS and used by the whole community, and being a risky hack that nobody really cares about.

In regards to the risk, yes you are right it's not worth it. But it is still doable and that is the original point.

>But breaking your freedom. That freedom includes using and modifying your system however you want.

Indeed, but freedom has always been wanted by a select few regardless of the product. I value freedom, but I also accept that it is not a requirement for a good experience as a user.

>That's true but the great thing is that there is always an alternative with Linux. Some people actually forked Debian and removed systemd. You couldn't do that with Windows.

I fully accept that Windows is a closed environment, I use it knowing full well it is. I also use linux because I know I can mould it around my requirements. Most people do not even factor this mindset into their purchase because they want something to work. We are a rare breed of user. I can use a different distro and I now do, but having to do this is a complete slap in the face of the freedom that I once had.

This has been fun man, got to go but I'll keep a check to see what you say but cannot reply.

>>How can Linux be good when it has no gaymen?
I'm gay and use GNU/Linux

>>57297014
Linux being Unix-like would be better if it was consistently more Unix-like, but it's not. If they took it to the logical conclusion (plan 9- "everything is a file and all files are a stream!") but they didn't. Windows is much more consistently object-oriented than Linux is stream/file-oriented. Having that total consistency is really important, because it makes difficult tasks straightforward, e.g., cat'ing from proc in contemporary Linux, which was taken from plan 9 and is unfortunately a kludge instead of a fundamental part of the OS's design, or using object property filters in Windows to perform complex queries without having to write or use manual parsing a la sed/awk.

Why would you ever use Linux as a personal OS?

Do you not like having access to whatever application you need? Do you not like using the best software in their respective categories? Do you like fucking with drivers THAT much?

It's different if you're using the OS for a specific task, such as work/server related. But for your own personal use? Fucking why? I mean it's the same goddamn reason top developers in Silicon Valley use OSX for personal use. There's no point using Linux. It's a huge fucking waste of time.

>>57297022
FPBP
/thread

>>57297014
>Unix-like
GNU: GNU's Not Unix
GNU/Linux is not Unix-like at all, since GNU does their best to trash it.

>>57299368
Linux is not Unix, but it's Unix-like. GNU is just a collection of software that most Linux users use.

>>57299336
I would use linux in my shit laptop if I didn't need some windows tools.
The bloat that acumulates over time in windows is absurd.

>>57299425
What bloat?

>>57299345
It's literally a shitty pasta that ignores OP's post completely

>>57297014

>Linux users

Well, those are some great reasons for....

>Windows GAEMZ

Hold on, this guy has a point.

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>>57299424

Ι'd јust like tο interјect fοr a mοment. What yοu're referring tο as Linux, is in fact, GΝU/Linux, οr as Ι've recently taken tο calling it, GΝU plus Linux. Linux is nοt an οperating system untο itself, but rather anοther free cοmpοnent οf a fully functiοning GΝU system made useful by the GΝU cοrelibs, shell utilities and vital system cοmpοnents cοmprising a full OS as defined by ΡOSΙX.

Many cοmputer users run a mοdified versiοn οf the GΝU system every day, withοut realizing it. Τhrοugh a peculiar turn οf events, the versiοn οf GΝU which is widely used tοday is οften called "Linux", and many οf its users are nοt aware that it is basically the GΝU system, develοped by the GΝU Ρrοјect.

Τhere really is a Linux, and these peοple are using it, but it is јust a part οf the system they use. Linux is the kernel: the prοgram in the system that allοcates the machine's resοurces tο the οther prοgrams that yοu run. Τhe kernel is an essential part οf an οperating system, but useless by itself; it can οnly functiοn in the cοntext οf a cοmplete οperating system. Linux is nοrmally used in cοmbinatiοn with the GΝU οperating system: the whοle system is basically GΝU with Linux added, οr GΝU/Linux. All the sο-called "Linux" distributiοns are really distributiοns οf GΝU/Linux.

>>57299448
shit inherent to the system. A few days ago this laptop was pretty much unusable. I open task manager and see windows defender using 100% of disk, and I can't even turn it off permanently without messing with the registry. And this is just one example of the many things that bloat windows 10.

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>>57297022
DO NOT REPLY TO BLATANT SHILLS

>>57299623
I'm sure it was merely a coincidence, anon!

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I just like Windows. Is that so hard to understand?

>>57297390
>Unknown without seeing the windows source code
The fact that you can't remove IE without completely fucking your OS is evidence enough for me
>I agree so I use chocolatey
Yes, Windows users are finally catching up after how many years?
>Powershell
is not as powerful as BASH, not to mention things like ZSH
>Doable with a bit of work
Nah. Replace explorer with something like GNOME or KDE and then come back
>Windows can be debloated
With a lot of work
>Windows 7 still gets updates
And new versions of Ubuntu (and other distros) are free
>Feedback is incorporated into Windows 10
Don't make me laugh
>only a few elites have control
And you can replace your kernel with any fork you want
>I didn't want systemd
There aren't any good alternatives to systemd on most distros
>this aids very few people
And those people will benefit

>productivity software
Other than Adobe shit and a few CAD/video production programs pretty much everything can run on linux. The majority of users could use linux without losing functionality.

>>57300345
This is /g/.
People can code bots to detect that kind of thread.
Post. Oh yeah, and have someone who paid for the pass.
Voila. GNU/Linux wins again

Or it's just copy/paste

>is not as powerful as BASH
>bash in all-caps
why?

and what does "powerful" even mean here?

>the community makes decisions, not some shady company
>what is Red Hat

>>57301258
Let's not forget that one of the top 5 contributors to the kernel in the past few years has been Microsoft. The "community" actually has much less say in things that matter, like kernel development, than they think. It's mostly "definitely-not-shady" companies like Microsoft (who definitely don't have a vested interest in pushing Pro-Microsoft features) and Red Hat (who definitely didn't have a vested interest in pushing SystemD and SystemD-related features).

>>57297014
>>57297014
>It's Unix-like and therefore structured in a much better way than Windows
Unix-like doesn't always mean better. Linux is not structured in a way that makes it desktop-friendly in many ways: most configuration is done through text files, there's no WinSxS equivalent in Linux so older software cannot be easily supported alongside modern programs (while Windows programs can live lifespans of >10 years), and the retarded "Unix philosophy" defies all attempts at positive progress (see: the controversy over systemd.)
>Having a package manager is extremely convenient
It's also a curse in disguise. Installing software outside of your distribution's package repositories is extremely tedious (i.e. compiling it yourself) or dangerous (i.e. adding random PPAs) in most situations. Whenever you want to update a single program, you oftentimes need to update your entire system, kernel and all (and after that update your system isn't even guaranteed to boot.)
>I can make my desktop look and behave however *I* want it to
The base state of Linux desktops is awful. Yes, theoretically it is possible to make a functional and aesthetic desktop out of a Linux installation but the tedium required is beyond almost all users and really shouldn't be required. OS X and Windows are functional and modern out of the box without the need to take hours out of your day just trying to make your system usable.
>I can have a bleeding-edge system with the latest software or a very stable system
What if I want a long-term stable base system (kernel etc.) but I also want up-to-date userspace programs? The structure of most distributions and their LTS releases makes this impossible.
>The community makes decisions, not some shady company
'The community' has little influence in the development of most large Linux projects. GNOME developers, for example, seem to have no qualms directly violating the wants of the Linux community in favor of their backwards design and usability principles.

>>57297014
>>57301503
>I know how my system works and how it is structured
No, you don't. Don't even pretend that you do, and don't pretend it would be of benefit to you even if you did. 99.99% of Linux users will never utilize the GPL's 'freedom 1' to modify source code, nor should they have to in order to make their system function.
>I have the freedom to do anything I want with it
What good is that freedom if you can't use your PC like a functioning member of society? Only programmers and scientists could possibly think of using Linux (semi-)professionally, and even they often need to install Windows in order to use certain proprietary/Windows-only programs. Where is a fully functional word processor? Video/photo (no, GIMP is not a viable PS alternative)/audio editor? CAD programs? Drivers for common hardware (esp. graphics cards, printers, network adapters)?

And finally, the largest point that no one seems to want to address: FOSS software is doomed to fail eventually. You cannot attract enough talented developers who are willing to devote their time on goodwill alone -- you need some sort of financial motivation and FOSS cannot provide that. The really gritty issues that all the volunteer developers don't consider worth their time will go unfixed for the rest of eternity because no one is being paid to make Linux a reality on the consumer desktop.

>>57297014
The problem is that anything you say there about linux positively is actually stronger or the same on BSD

>>57299345
please end your life as soon as possible

>>57301669
>No, you don't. Don't even pretend that you do, and don't pretend it would be of benefit to you even if you did.
Using Linux taught me a lot of how operating systems work. Of course I'm not an expert but I wouldn't know these things without Linux.
>99.99% of Linux users will never utilize the GPL's 'freedom 1' to modify source code
A lot of deevelopers do and this makes a difference for everybody.
>nor should they have to in order to make their system function.
They don't
>What good is that freedom if you can't use your PC like a functioning member of society?
That argument makes no sense. Why would Linux users not be able use their PC like a "functioning member of society"?
>even they often need to install Windows in order to use certain proprietary/Windows-only programs
That doesn't make Windows itself better. That just means that is has more proprietary applications, which isn't Linux's fault.
>You cannot attract enough talented developers who are willing to devote their time on goodwill alone -- you need some sort of financial motivation and FOSS cannot provide that.
There are actual companies like RedHat who have paid developers who work for Linux and free software. This is just not an argument. There is no sign of free software failing somehow
>no one is being paid to make Linux a reality on the consumer desktop
Wrong

>>57297390

>I agree so I use chocolatey
With due respect, chocolatey does not really compare to any package managers one might be used to on Linux. It's okay for getting applications, but if you want to do development, it's not going to do the work you need for grabbing libraries and putting them in the appropriate search paths for your compiler.

>>57301754
I actually prefer BSDs from a technical point of view, I just compared Windows to Linux because that's what the vast majority of people always talk about

>>57301791
>Using Linux taught me a lot of how operating systems work. Of course I'm not an expert but I wouldn't know these things without Linux.
Same. Of course, I swapped back to Windows and now I have a newfound appreciation for this OS and the work that's gone into it.

>>57301879
With due respect, Chocolatey isn't the package manager on windows. It's just called Package-Management in Powershell, or OneGet/NuGet.

>>57301949
>I swapped back to Windows and now I have a newfound appreciation for this OS and the work that's gone into it.
This is perfectly fine. The problem is that a lot of Windows users refuse to look at anything from a technical point of view and don't even give Linux a chance.

>>57301791
>>99.99% of Linux users will never utilize the GPL's 'freedom 1' to modify source code
>A lot of deevelopers do and this makes a difference for everybody.
A lot of developers work on Windows, too, and as it turns out Windows is just a better desktop product. 'Freedumbs' don't get us anywhere, and using an operating system based on ideology is retarded.
>Why would Linux users not be able use their PC like a "functioning member of society"?
Maybe if you read the rest of the post you would know.
>>nor should they have to in order to make their system function.
>They don't
Oh yeah? Then why do laptops with switchable graphics (over 50% of laptops being sold today) STILL not work properly in Linux without kernel patches or the like?
>>even they often need to install Windows in order to use certain proprietary/Windows-only programs
>That doesn't make Windows itself better. That just means that is has more proprietary applications, which isn't Linux's fault.
That shitty argument isn't going to get people to use Linux. Trying to argue 'it isn't Linux's fault guys' is pointless and serves no purpose. It doesn't matter whose "fault" it is, it matters what works now and what doesn't. Maybe if Linux could get some stable ABIs, a stable display manager, a stable GUI toolkit, and be more stable and standardized in general then companies would develop more programs for it. Right now, Linux is a clusterfuck.
>>You cannot attract enough talented developers who are willing to devote their time on goodwill alone -- you need some sort of financial motivation and FOSS cannot provide that.
>There are actual companies like RedHat who have paid developers who work for Linux and free software. This is just not an argument. There is no sign of free software failing somehow
RedHat's focus is not the consumer desktop. It is the enterprise market, where they can sell support - that is not an option on the consumer desktop and the lack of dedication to the product shows.

>>57302090
>it turns out Windows is just a better desktop product
That's really just your opinion
>using an operating system based on ideology is retarded
I don't think most Linux users only use it because of the ideology. There are a lot of technical reasons why someone might prefer Linux, see OP's post.
>Maybe if you read the rest of the post you would know.
There are "functioning members of society" who don't even use a PC. If you need Windows-only software, you can use Wine, a virtual machine or dual boot.
>Oh yeah? Then why do laptops with switchable graphics (over 50% of laptops being sold today) STILL not work properly in Linux without kernel patches or the like?
Because the hardware manufacturers only write these drivers for Windows. You should appreciate the incredible amount of work that the Linux community has done to improve driver support and things like that. They often have to reverse engineer all of this stuff and it's incredible that they even get things like a free driver for nvidia cards to work.
>Maybe if Linux could get some stable ABIs, a stable display manager, a stable GUI toolkit, and be more stable and standardized in general then companies would develop more programs for it. Right now, Linux is a clusterfuck.
What do you mean? Linux can be very stable. Linux also has a lot of programs, they're often just not what the average Joe would use. There are however many companies who rely on Linux.
There are also other companies than Red Hat like Canonical who are targeting the conumer desktop.
>the lack of dedication to the product shows
The Linux desktop if perfectly usable.

>>57300933
Capable is probably a better word.

>>57302290
>There are "functioning members of society" who don't even use a PC. If you need Windows-only software, you can use Wine, a virtual machine or dual boot.
Good luck getting through schooling without a computer. Wine supports very few programs well, virtual machines are only an option on desktop PCs and are far too advanced and tedious for a normal user, and needing to dual boot just shows that Linux isn't a viable desktop product.
>>Oh yeah? Then why do laptops with switchable graphics (over 50% of laptops being sold today) STILL not work properly in Linux without kernel patches or the like?
>Because the hardware manufacturers only write these drivers for Windows. You should appreciate the incredible amount of work that the Linux community has done to improve driver support and things like that. They often have to reverse engineer all of this stuff and it's incredible that they even get things like a free driver for nvidia cards to work.
You just admitted my point, that many users *would* in fact need to edit source code. I appreciate the work of nouveau/radeon developers but it isn't enough and no one will use Linux just because they tried their best. Good-faith effort =/= good product.
>>it turns out Windows is just a better desktop product
>That's really just your opinion
>>the lack of dedication to the product shows
>The Linux desktop if perfectly usable.
You really are just deluding yourself. I love Linux, and I would love to see it succeed in the future, but I hate blind fanboys like you who insist that nothing is wrong, because it retards progress and puts Linux users in a giant echo chamber where they are unable to see what they are missing out on.

>>57302290
>>57302426
You'll grow out of your current mindset eventually. I was like you some time ago but I've realized the reality of the situation now. I encourage you to read itvision DOT altervista DOT org/why.linux.is.not.ready.for.the.desktop.current.html (dumbass spam filter won't let me put the real link)

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>>57299054
>18+ years of binary compatiblity
>16 bit support completely dropped
>can't run Sim City 2000
>Sim City 2000 runs under Wine on Linux

The idea of only using one OS is kind of dated. Linux is better than Windows at things, Windows is better than Linux at other things.

I set up an old desktop computer as an ESX box and just run near bare-metal vm's, linux, windows, and sophos utm, for whatever i need, it works as a firewall, NAS, web server, etc. I also turned my gaming box into a headless windows server and when i want to play games i just stream the window from there to my laptop. I notice no input lag using wireless-ac. I can also keep all my computer shit in a back room so when I have people over i dont look like a sperg.

Did /g/ quit learning about computers in 2008?

>>57297014
Here's why I like Linux.

I have a Thinkpad X201 and my dad has a Thinkpad T400.

I run windows 7 on my desktop because I play games and I have a PC with some funky hardware that doesn't have great support in Linux. And there is some software for Windows I prefer. Still, I mostly use GNU stuff.

But the laptops? They shipped with Win 7 too and have the stickers on the bottom.

But fuuuuuuuuuuckkkk thaaaaatttt

There is no way in hell I would install Windows 7 on these machines today. For what purpose?

First of all I can install Xubuntu and have it completely installed and configured the way I like it in hour. Max. It will detect all hardware and work 99% flawlessly.

Windows? It's a nightmare. Windows update flat out doesn't fucking work. It used to be slow, now it is broken. It doesn't go through unless you go on google and install a bunch of random security updates manually one by one. Shit takes forever.

Then after you install all the updates the system is bloated as fuck and you have to go through and turn off services to get back any kind of performance. What are the consequences of this? Who knows. Sometimes things you install don't work right and then you have to go back through and do more googling to see what you have to turn back on. Fuck. That.

Games? It's a fucking laptop. Don't make me laugh. The only games that will get played are maybe a bit of browser shit, or an emulated NES/SNES game to distract the nieces and nephews. If I want to play games myself I have my desktop for that. And I don't play games "on the go" at all. That's stupid.

Linux won't get viruses. My Dad will not install malware that causes me to have to sit around while virus scanners go over his whole computer every 3 or 4 months when he fucks it up.

In some cases Linux does "just werk".

>>57302815
>Xubuntu
I don't understand the love for XFCE. It seems inferior to Cinnamon and KDE in every way, to me.

LXDE is lighter weight than XFCE, if that's what you're going for. There are things even lighter than LXDE too. I just use LXDE a lot because it plays nice with VMs.

>>57302522
Anon, just because it had "2000" in the name doesn't mean that's when it came out. Sim City 2000 was released on windows in 1995, 21 years ago.

Although after googling it, it seems like it still runs for a lot of people when they set color and compatibility settings properly.

>>57302907
>trying to reason with a thinkpad user

>>57302558
^ bump for fucking this

>>57302909
>it still runs for a lot of people when they set color and compatibility settings properly
It gives me a message saying 16 bit apps are no longer supported. I could not get it to work no matter what I tried.

The fact that it runs alright under Wine and not windows is just sad though.

>>57302907
lxde is more outdated than xfce
and xfce is outdated as it is

>>57302907
XFCE is the most windows like so it feels more natural for me to use.

>>57302946
LXDE is going to be replaced by LXQT soon. I tried it on VM. It seems like they improved it to the point where it's not 'the windows 95 GUI of Linux'.

It's still no KDE though.

>>57302956
Really? I found that Cinnamon is basically just Windows GUI for Linux.

>>57302944
>binary compatibility for 18+ years
>but not 21+ years so it doesn't matter!
I don't know what to tell you. It looks like it's another works_on_my_machine.png issue. Seems pretty dumb to judge an entire OS on one 21+ year old video game, but that's just my opinion.

>>57302977
If Linux can run Sim City 2000 without a VM, why isn't that functionality in Windows? I'm not judging the entire OS on that, but it seems like a failing on Windows' part.

I do hope that Wine gets to the point where you can run most Windows programs without much of an issue. It would be great to just be able to run Linux all the time. DRM software seems like an issue for that though.

>>57302963
>Cinnamon is basically just Windows GUI for Linux.

Cinnamon = bad aspects of Windows UI, does not feel logical to longtime windows users

XFCE = Not the same as Windows, but "feels" right and is quickly learned.

I set my desktop in XFCE to basically look like windows

>1 panel across bottom of screen
>whisker menu on the left
>just basics on the right: wireless, battery, sound, time

Whisker menu is more like the Windows 7 start menu than anything I've seen in Cinnamon or KDE.

>>57302460
>the guy who wrote this has a terrible attitude, he practically accuses you of attacking him if you point any fault on what he wrote. Take this link too:
https://mmstickman.wordpress.com/linux/why-linux-reasons-why-i-dislike-windows-why-linux-is-awesome/

>>57303033
>bad aspects of Windows UI, does not feel logical to longtime windows users
What about Cinnamon makes you feel that way? I just hopped into Cinnamon DE from Windows 7 and found that it was like Windows UI except that I could configure it more.

>whisker menu
that looks pretty similar to Cinnamon's start menu. KDE's is a little weird though. I usually just open it and type into the search though.

>basics in task bar
you can do that in Cinnamon and KDE too.

>>57303030
That's what compatibility mode does. For most people, it works. It looks like it doesn't work for you trying to play a 21 year old game, which sucks, I guess. I'm not sure what your complaint is. There are for more compiled-for-1998-windows programs that are still compatible on Windows than there are compiled-for-1998-Linux programs that are still compatible with Linux just because [see previous posts]. It sounds like you're just griping about one 21 year old game, which wasn't the point of my earlier posts.

See:
>>57299078
>>57299119

>>57303094
>That's what compatibility mode does
Really? I've never had it fix anything ever, and I've used Windows for years.

It's not just one game. Most games that are more than 10 years old have weird problems for me.

>>57303110
I'm very sorry for you bud.

>>57301879
No that would be nuget which chocolatey is based off

>>57303123
I have a lot of weird software problems. VAC doesn't work in CS:GO on Windows for me anymore. It works in Linux, but CS:GO on Linux plays like shit.

>Linux users:
>Here's why I like Linux:

>Windows users:
>GAYMEZ!

>ITT: well thought discussion of pros and cons from Linux and Windows users
gee OP