>I use an iMac because I'm a PROGRAMMER Whats the grounds

>>57254966
usable unix system?

>>57254966
You can program on any OS that has a basic text editor.

I use Ubuntu with nano.

because they want to develop for the iOS ecosystem where you get more money for your apps

ezpz

>>57254966
OS X is a UNIX, it's got a proper command line and all the usual tools one would need for programming and such.

And has a nice desktop at the same time, unlike linux.

they're responding to your autistic harassment over their choice of computer

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>>57254966
>using Mac OS as a programmer
Fine and good. comfy, stable, unix-ish environment

>using an iMac, period
pic related

i think you heard 'progamer'

>>57255184
>they're responding to your autistic harassment over their choice of computer

What if I'm harassing them because they're complaining about poor gaming performance and they bring up the programming argument later on.

>Whats the grounds for this argument?

If you don't know the arguments against, then you need to shut the fuck up because you're a /v/tard who wants to be h4rdc0re.

>>57254966
It can legally run all 3 major operating systems, which is a plus for corporate code monkeys.

>>57254966
devs like it because the OS is beautiful and it's not Windows, then there are the smart ones that use a form of Linux or BSD. Although being able to do iOS and MacOS development is nice, along with Linux, BSD and Windows development with Android as well, Mac is the only desktop platform that can develop for ALL of those platforms, something like Linux you can: develop for Android, Linux, BSD, Windows and that's it unless you run a hackintosh. I don't blame them, having a macbook makes you look rich

>>57255288
>gaming performance
These machines are made for work, they're not children's toys.

>>57255507
I hate when people use this argument. If that's the case buy a business laptop. Macs were marketed in the 2000s as the hip laid back entertainment machine compared to PCs.

>>57255922
Gaming is still for pathetic man children.

>>57254966
Programming is the easiest thing you can do with a computer. Doesn't really matter what hardware or operating system you use.

>>57255507
>Macs
>made for work
But they aren't. They're more properly classified as jewelry.
If they were truly made for work, they would be more ergonomic, and provide features that make them more suitable for extended use. Similarly, they would feature better cooling and be more robust.

But they manage none of this. They look pretty, but they're otherwise shitty. They aren't made for work, they're made for browsing facebook or consuming media.

>>57256028
clearly, you've never experienced the hell that is configuring a windows dev environment for anything besides .NET projects...

>>57256007
not really
its an artform in itself
like reading a book or appreciating a movie

>>57256260
What if I told you that you're dead wrong on all points and that you probably don't work for a software development team? Visit almost any dev team, attend any dev conference, and you'll see a vast majority of developers using macbook pros.

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>>57254990
/thread

>>57254985
Why would you do that to yourself?

>>57254966
>>57254985
Because macOS is a good OS. Windows honestly sucks for development, VS is okay, Xcode sucks. JetBrains make nice IDEs of you use IDEs, they're best for their debugging functionality and perhaps testing. For many cases makefiles and build scripts are sufficient. However, having a useful terminal and not the pile of shit that is cmd and even PowerShell, the latter which has short comings. They both have shit interfaces where you can't even highlight text in a conventional manner. Not to mention, Windows update. Fuck me. Rebooting more than once to install an update. Please, I can update from 10.8 to 10.11 in one reboot, maybe two on macOS.

Windows instead gives something like:
>"Configuring update 22/22"
>Reboot
>"Rolling back update"
>Reboot
>"Installing update in 15 minutes" can't be postponed.
>"Reboot"
>Repeat.


macOS has the benefits of UNIX coupled with the availability of commercial software that you won't find on most Linux distributions.

>>57256440
Fucking lol.

>>57256746
lol yes of course you have the csgo type gaming
but if you get into some GOG type of stuff you can find some obscure shit that make you appreciate games on that level

>>57254981

>mactoddlerOS
>usable

>>57256846
nice™ meme™

>>57254966
I use a mac, and I can tell you - I feel no substantial difference between programming on a mac than programming on windows.

The only upside I can think of macs are xCode and Swift/Objective-C (which aren't even good languages - they're just necessary for iOS Dev. - and it's nice to have the option available).

Apart from that, Windows has more IDEs available (fuck text editors, too) and has useful C++ libraries available like Direct X9.

>>57254966
> Easy install of libraries and runtimes without bloat (fucking Java)
>Comfy OS with better built-in programs than Windows or Linux
>Compatible with professional proprietary software so you don't look like a sperg
>Aesthetic hardware
>iMacs have a higher resolution display than any desktop computer you can buy today
I mean, you're still better off with a Hackintosh but damn is it nice to listen to ALAC while coding.

>>57254966
>>57254990
Can you code any other language as well?

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>>57256998
>iMacs have a higher resolution display than any desktop computer you can buy today

>>57254966
would be more likely to say :

because I am programmer, I use a laptop & couple raspberry pi 3s, running xubuntu/mate

>>57257023
Okay, I found this one listing
https://www.amazon.com/Dell-Monitor-UP2715K-27-Inch-LED-Lit/dp/B00OKSFXZU
but it's only $500 less than getting a 5k iMac with peripherals, and this monitor isn't guaranteed to just werk with everything you plug into it.

>>57256580
why the hell would you use a mac for development? .. you are stuck with mac packages. its PROPRIETARY. nothing of any worth is PROPRIETARY anymore .. its all free, like music, rite? Imagine having to install python

>>57256028
what a stupid statement

>>57257070
>what a stupid statement
what a stupid statement
You only need a text editor to code, anon. Most computers before you were born were designed so the people using them could program them. Computers today still have all that functionality underneath the bloat added for retards.

two things:
1) usually we use "are" instead of "is" in english when you're talking about plural nouns (like "the grounds"), pajeet.

2) i've never heard anyone say they use an iMac because they're a programmer. i've heard people say they use os x or MBPs or whatever (all relatively general terms for apple products), and the reason for that is that they all run OS X, which is basically just *nix with a good desktop environment with sensible defaults out of the box (to say nothing of excellent customer support for when something goes wrong and the person's time is worth more than the cost of servicing it)

>>57257102
>You only need a text editor to code, anon
and a brain. you might not be familiar with those things. they're the things between most people's ears and they allow people to solve complex problems.

>>57256260
well ibm uses them for work and they ended up saving money

http://www.recode.net/2016/10/20/13337652/mac-ibm-business-cheaper

>>57256260
>But they aren't. They're more properly classified as jewelry.
what a salty autist thing to say

>>57257343
So does Google, Facebook, Intel, AMD, SpaceX and almost every tech company that matters. Windows isn't even allowed at any of the aforementioned companies outside of testing.

>>57256846
macOS doesn't actually crash every 5 minutes

>>57257059
>this monitor isn't guaranteed to just werk with everything you plug into it.
what did he mean by this?

>>57256458
>A lot of people use it for this, so it's made for this
But that's wrong, you fucking retard.
A lot of people using them doesn't change their lack of ergonomics, shitty thermals, glossy headache-inducing screens, mediocre at best build quality, or lack of serviceability for even the simplest things.

The hardware isn't made for work, and it never will be no matter how many people use it. The only thing Macbooks have going for them is the OS being a pain in the ass to install on any other machine.
And that's why companies choose them. They have no other option if they have a need for a (hassle-free) non-Windows system. Not because these machines are made for work.

>>57257435
>mediocre at best build quality
The only other laptop i've used that didn't have creaking plastic somewhere on it is the surface

>>57257461
>external build quality is everything, guys
>no one cares about the internals

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>>57257470
What did he mean by this?

>>57257435
>glossy headache-inducing screens,
>mediocre at best build quality,
kek

>>57257482
Yes, congratulations on using a black PCB. Real great achievement there.
Now if the components would just fail less than chink shit, that would be nice.

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>>57257516

>>57257516
do you think the only unique characteristic is that the PCB is black?

this is the same kind of chinky observation skills that lead to shitty knockoffs

>>57257435
You're just making shit up at this point. The ergonomics are fine. Great, actually. The retina screens are fantastic. I'm not a fan of gloss on screens either generally, but that's just opinion.

Also your opinions are clearly not based on being informed, because you very obviously don't understand the modern enterprise environment. Companies don't pay their IT people to fix broken laptops and shit, they just pay to have the machine replaced or serviced by Apple, because it's more convenient, and cheaper. In fact, the smart companies don't even buy the hardware, they lease it.

So basically, you're just a salty NEET talking out of their ass as if you know anything.

>>57257435
Have you actually used a mac for any period of time? The ergonomics are far above average. I've never had an issue with cooling. I was skeptical about the glossy screens at first, but they actually look great and work just fine, and they're about as serviceable as any other off-the-shelf laptop. It looks like the new macbook pros are going to take a dive in ergonomics, but I don't think your complaints hold water for the current models.

Best argument I have heard and explains why you see so many MacBook at developer conferences

Boss:
> Do you want a Windows 10 Dell laptop or a MacBook pro?

IT will flip out if you reinstall Linux. So most people choose the osx laptop since it's mostly good enough.

>>57257640
>IT will flip out if you reinstall Linux

It's more that most people realize that Linux is absolute trash on the desktop.

>>57257482
It looks nice yes.

But how easy is it to service?

>>57257640
also running a script to get everything caught up (install homebrew, change settings, etc...) is a lot easier with bash than with powershell. definitely easier than with the command prompt.

>>57257651

I dunno, osx window manager sucks. So does windows. If you run a x11 on osx you lose any benefit osx had.

I mean use whatever, I like Linux for doing work and it makes my life easier than osx or Windows.

>>57257651
It's gotten a LOT better, to be honest, though.

Considering how fucking full retard Windows is going, I imagine it's going to catch up even
quicker now.

>>57256260

Apple's been making personal computers since your parents were wearing diapers. Fuck off retard.

>>57257059
Who cares. Comparing a computer (iMac) to a monitor. $500 more for pretty good specs and peripherals, which granted aren't great but have good resale value is worth it.

>>57257661
What kind of service do you realistically do on a laptop? You get a new one every couple of years. If there's a major hardware failure in the interim, you get a replacement and send the old one back to the manufacturer for repair. Only enthusiasts and poorfags fix laptops.

>>57257709
> Only enthusiasts and poorfags fix laptops

There's a lot of NEET poorfags on /g/.

>>57257061
Having to install Python? Are you joking or retarded?
>brew install python
>brew update python

Enjoy MSYS, CygWin and MinGW. Perhaps you install and update Python by downloading the installer and polluting your root directory with the Python27 folder and a bunch of other shit.

Damn man, you're a fucking idiot. You can easily cross compile on OS X. Good luck on Windows. Speaking of proprietary, like DirectX and .NET? Good one. At least OS X uses a decent number of standards.

Even Windows shell is fucking proprietary dog shit. Bash > sh > PowerShell > cmd/DOS.

>>57257732

You can cross compile on Windows. It's just a huge pain in the ass to setup

>>57257732
Most Python packages don't even work on Windows because nobody gives a shit about Windows. Even major packages like Numpy don't release regular Windows packages because the core team doesn't give a fuck about Windows.

>Windows and Linux STILL don't have filesystem tagging

>>57257343
Debunked.

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>>57254966
iMac should be used for hardcore porn.

None. macOS (and by extension Apple hardware) is NOT good for development
Also, I bet all those people spouting "unix" as an argument, don't know what they're talking about.

>shit file system
>no systemd or easy way to create and manage daemons (launchd is terrible)
>.DS_Store, .localized, __MACOSX
>no built-in package manager (fink, ports and brew are just hacks)
>outdated packages
>no terminal auto-complete
>no FHS
>shit security

also in hardware:
>no way to replace/update HD, or RAM
>no vga port (requires $50 adapter)
>overpriced

Macbooks have great battery life, I'll give you that. Mine runs for like 8 to 10 hours under normal use.

>>57257853

If this isn't a troll you're a actual moron

I don't like osx, but you have no clue wtf your talking about.

it's a nice inbetween for windows and linux that doesn't make you wanna kill yerself

>philosophy is:
windows for desktop
mac for laptop

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ITT: People who don't know a shit about anything sperging out like autists

>>57258032
Windows is already dead among people that are relevant in programming. The only programmers that really matter are all in the bay area and OS X easily has over 95% marketshare there.

I'd love to have osx for development.
If it had a good package manager and custom desktop environments it would be perfect.

>>57254966
Unix, good build quality, stable, doesn't waste my fucking time with bullshit like fixing broken drivers and undoing buggy updates.

>>57254966
I think the core argument of people who say this is that they are wanting a simple UNIX system that exists within a very simple consumer OS.

>>57258130
homebrew is widely used and maintained daily. you can use XQuartz to load up a X11 based DE

i program in python in the command line

come at me

>>57258095

OS X only has market share in the bay because Macbooks are fashionable. The vast majority of Bay Area laptops are Macs because a top tier company has to project a top tier image, and Mac is fashionable right now.

But those people all have Linux desktops where the real work is done.

t. Bay Area software engineer.

>>57256846

> I don't know what darwin and bsd are

>>57258173
Wait.
I can actually use cinnamon or i3 on osx?
Have you tried it?
Is it a reliable replacement for the default desktop?

Develop for iOS good luck doing that on something else.

>>57254966
No reason to use an iMac over any other Mac other than the Macbook, unless you're getting the 5K iMac.

>>57257763
This is my biggest reason for switching over. Only other usable desktop OS. Linux is great for servers. Windows is getting better and worse. WSL is wonderful, but the UI is all sorts of fucked now.

I don't own a mac anymore, I use mostly windows and linux, but macs are a lot easier to develop on than windows due to its Unix roots. It's still not as powerful as Linux in some aspects, but I can definitely see why Developers prefer it over windows. And desu I use windows almost exclusively these days, and I have to admit if you don't have a tablet, it's a fucking awful experience for development and even just for general use. They nail it in the tablet/hybrid department but everything else is god awful. It's annoying how bad is it just from a OS design perspective. I'll still use it though until Linux can come up with a better touch friendly DE (Gnome is utter dogshit).

>>57257728
Part of the price of the laptop includes service. Other manufacturers won't even give a shit.

>>57258188
There's anons here that switch the dm for OSX. XQuartz is for running X11 applications on the OSX dm.

>>57254966

> Unix
> Possibility of developing for any platform.
> Niche software like Codekit and Quicksilver that still don't have comparable options on WIndows. I mean, they exist, they are just not as good.

That's pretty much why I still have a Mac, The hardware is better on the Windows side, but being realistic, the software is more important. I can deal with my machine being 0.02s slower, but having to jump trough hoops on a daily basis on the software side would be way more frustrating. I would get a Surface if Microsoft could offer viable options for those pain points.

>>57258261
I might actually be wrong on the last one.

>>57258231
And to add to this, I think Microsoft realizes how fucking awful their OS for developing on and that's why they're trying so hard to work with Ubuntu and with Linux in general, I think they're doing amazing things with hardware right now, but they have such an awful OS that's put together on duct tape and the willpower of their developers.

>>57254966
3d animation requires tons of programming. 99.9% is done on a mac

>>57258175
>But those people all have Linux desktops where the real work is done.

I work at Google and most people use Macbook Pros with OS X plugged into large external monitors for their daily development environment. The vast majority of bay area software engineers are running OS X on their desktop/laptop.

>>57258277
Actually if you look at how WSL works, it's pretty awesome. When they created the NT kernel, they designed it so that subsystems are built on top of it. They planned to add posix support in the past but they scrapped it. The rest of windows is an utter mess. Especially with how backwards compatible they try to keep everything.

>>57256260
Yea youre dead worng. Xenons and ecc ram is proof alone its a workstation. Then add the fact osx is unix certified and windows is trash at ram. Not to mention doing audio on a pc is a nightmare

>>57258292
>I work at Google
Yeah sure you fucking do, coffeebitch.

>>57256933
Dx isnt a useful library

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>>57257061
what the fuck does the licensing have to do with the quality of the product or whether or not you can install software on it

why is /g/ so full of dumbfucks who assume a platform is can't do something if they're not forced to or spoonfed instructions to accomplish it

>>57257853
> shit filling system
> shills a filling system that cant transfer nore than 16gb
> horrific registry system
> still uses system 32

>>57258292
moot?

>>57257368
Windows by every single company in the enterprise market. Mac OS doesn't have things that Companies actually give a shit about like Active Dev.

>>57258538
Windows definitely wins in the Pajeet and office drone markets.

>>57257482
DAT PROPRIETARY STORAGE YO

>>57258538
you mean active directory. and that's only for managing drones - i.e. it's a cheap way of automating resource management. that doesn't mean it's good. and has nothing to do with it's usefulness/desirability as a developer environment

>>57257482
Just install a second HDD its not hard

>XCode
>Sublime Text
>hell, even fucking vim
>stable as fuck OS that doesn't break with every other update
Yeah, I can see why people would wanna use this to get stuff done.

>>57258565
Pretty much. I work for a Fortune 500 IT company and all the marketing/business/admin people are on Windows. The engineers and developers get their choice of Mac, PC, or Linux for their personal workstations, and most choose Mac. Our production environments are all Linux-based, so anyone who chooses Windows is subjecting himself to unnecessary hardship.

>>57258568
What do you need the second HDD for? 1TB is enough.

>>57254966
the literal only reason I don't use osx is I can't throw i3 on it

it's actually a really decent operating system and the hardware is great, but without i3, my productivity drops like a rock

>>57254966
Imagine if linux didn't suck. Macs are basically that.

>>57258688
>but without i3, my productivity drops like a rock

You should probably learn to use your editor/IDE and terminal properly.

>>57258688
The closest thing might be Amethyst.

>>57258700
the issue ends up being that I can't map literally everything to a keyboard shortcut, and good luck getting more than two windows on the same screen without wasting an obscene amount of time or screen space

osx is just geared more towards people who like mice, and I don't.

>>57254966
there is none, its stupid to think that. we're all stupid for caring about some hypothetical situation where we hypothetically protect our ego. every. single. reply.

>>57257763
Exactly. The only people that shit on OS X are the people who think they're elitist computer users. The reality is they just play games and may have messed with the registry or some shit like that. The stereotype of Mac users annoys me, but at the same time it's also true in many cases. Apple relies on less technical people buying their Mac products because there's a bigger market of non-technical users than developers. It's good for us "professionals" because Apple wouldn't be able to sustain the products without such people.

It's just annoying to be thrown in the same group as the "$2000 Facebook machine user". But it's just like "I develop programs on OS X, what do you do?" The answer is usually nothing interesting. Hackintosh is the best for somewhat technical people and installation has become so easy in recent years. But if my work offers me a $3K MacBook or the top of the line ThinkPad, not only will I choose the MacBook for OS X but because the products are nice but damn well overpriced.

The most hilarious thing is that the overwhelming majority of Google's engineers use MacBooks. Google being the primary contributors to AOSP. Which is often praised by people that in many cases hate on iOS and Apple in general.

>>57258565
>you mean active directory. and that's only for managing drones - i.e. it's a cheap way of automating resource management.
It's effectively manages accounts and network resources for a entire business staff.

>that doesn't mean it's good.
It's why Windows will infinte control over PC market forever.

> it's usefulness/desirability as a developer environment
You made this claim
>So does Google, Facebook, Intel, AMD, SpaceX and almost every tech company that matters. Windows isn't even allowed at any of the aforementioned companies outside of testing.

Which is complete nonsense. Mac OS X is useful as developer enviroment and creative device but it's not all around work machine. Majority of professional software is designed by Windows and most professional industries use Windows for work. You not going to see blue collar use a mac. You not going to see a military grunt use a Mac. It's niche because it's uses are niche.

>>57258542
>Implying Developer market isn't full of Pajeets.

>>57258792
A lot of Google's engineers also use iPhones despite getting flagship Android phones for free.

>>57257853
Haha, so apt-and yum and whatever else are fine?

Bash completion isn't a part of bash you fucking moron. Just because you're too stupid to instal bash completion, a project maintained by different people, doesn't make it anyone else's fault. Go edit your bash profile or look inside it and realise how bash completion works.

Display Port > HDMI. Go look at specs and the release times. HDMI is always playing catch up. FWIW, Apple doesn't own DisplayPort, it's an open standard. Only fucking idiots believe it's better than HDMI. Mini DisplayPort is owned by Apple but freely licensed, assuming you don't infringe their patents, you're free to use it. As have some PC manufacturers. Hell, they include HDMI support too, why do you want analogue signal?

Outdated packages I'll give you, but again, install GNU utils via home brew and problem solved. FHS, sure. You can use cron to schedule tasks too...

>>57258837
>Implying Developer market isn't full of Pajeets.

It is if you're at the low end. At the high end it's all whites and asians.

Complilation requires XCode

To be fair, I think macs are fucking bomb to work with, provided you've got enough ram to run a few VMs you WILL need. If you're doing anything but CLI work or web browsing they're a pain in the ass though.

>>57258729
OS X has, hands down, the best trackpad drivers of any modern operating system. Windows and any third party driver on Windows is just utter crap. Even bootcamp has a shit track pad, I'm thinking maybe that "scrolling by lines" isn't greats when you can perform precise movements with a trackpad. Wonder when Windows developers will realise that people don't scroll trackpads in intervals, like a scroll wheel.

>>57258862
People should be entitled to choose.


I use an iPhone. I develop for iOS. I have developed for android and I just don't like the platform. Doesn't make me an idiot because I'm more capable with both platforms than the average android fanboy anyway. iPhones are big in large businesses because they offer higher security. Despite the number of vulnerabilities found, Apple actually patches them with quick turnaround. Samsung, LG, HTC don't. The only option is the Google line of Android phones, with the new pixels weaker in all but the cameras when compared to last years iPhone.

>>57255168
No wget.
>proper desktop unlike Linux
Opinion.

>>57258173
>homebrew is widely used and maintained daily.
So is McDonald's, doesn't make it good. Homebrew is largely inferior to dnf or apt-get and you're stuck with packages you update through homebrew and packages you update through the App Store.

>>57259779
you can add your own - ahh forget it. if you're not a parrot then you should know better, and if you are then i'm talking to a bird that emulates sentience and nothing more.

>>57259790
You can add your own what?

>>57259796
formulas, taps, whatever. like i said i don't see this conversation moving the needle. read up on homebrew but i suspect if you're comparing homebrew to mcdonald's then you've already planted your zealot flag and you're not moving camp.

>>57259824
If someone makes a repository, can I add it to the sources list and install packages through there?

>>57258313
I've never used so I wouldn't know.

unix-like os being better to program on than windows

>>57259828
yes. homebrew has an admittedly insane fetish for taking the metaphor too far, but it's called tapping a keg or something similarly retarded.

it's doable. it's just that the defaults are sufficient for something like 90% of users, and that leaves the people that would benefit from it in too niche of a group (still, there are a few good ones: https://github.com/Homebrew/brew/blob/master/docs/Interesting-Taps-%26-Forks.md )

>>57254966
At least OSX is Unix certified.

>>57259880
Those are secondary repos by the homebrew team, that's not what I asked for. If someone decides to make a repo, or tap or whatever other terminology they wish to use, not associated to the homebrew project itself, can I add it with

brew tap

?

>>57259902
>muh piece of paper

>>57259910
that's just a list of interesting taps to the people that maintain the homebrew repo. the documentation on `brew tap` is here: https://github.com/Homebrew/brew/blob/master/docs/brew-tap.md

>>57254966
>Whats the grounds for this argument?
You didn't present any argument.

>>57259929
Alright, it's only missing delta packages and the ability to use it to manage all packages and update my entire system with a single command like I do on Linux.

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>>57259595
>No wget.
What the hell is that supposed to mean?

>>57258032
I'm sure if these stats dismissed ruby, js and python "devs", as well as hipster shit languages like Rust, Go and D, OSX would get less than 2 percent.s

>>57259965
>Alright, it's only missing delta packages
okay.
>and the ability to use it to manage all packages and update my entire system with a single command like I do on Linux.
either `brew update; brew upgrade [--all]` (although the `--all` has been defunct for a bit now)
OR
if you use mac-cli ( https://github.com/guarinogabriel/Mac-CLI ) or something similar, you can call `mac update` and it'll do that as well as check npm, pip, etc... for updates.

>>57254966
>bro all the programmers i see seem to be using macs

my brother said this to me and I just don't know how to explain to him that its because

a) he's in college
b) they're probably webdevshits
c) there's simply no reason to pay thousands of dollars for any computing machine unless you want to play games.

>>57257059
imac doesn't even have the power to drive 4k in anything but facebook.

>>57259981
not him (i'm the guy explaining homebrew to him) but almost literally everything that ships with os x is so heinously obsolete that in some cases it might be dangerous. what's nice about os x is that drop in replacements for the built in bash (e.g. to a more up to date bash, or zsh, or whatever) are relatively painless to get going. up until *very* recently, getting a standard shell running in windows was almost physically painful

iMac with a server is actually a pretty nice combination. Do basic stuff like browsing the web, watching movies, and anything you want that doesn't require much power and remote into your server for the power intensive stuff.

>>57259981
That post said "OS X is a UNIX, it's got a proper command line and all the usual tools one would need for programming and such.". We were talking about OS X from default, not OS X plus basic tools installed through homebrew, which is what you have. In that case Windows with Cygwin is also *nix.

>>57259996
I don't think you understood my point, maybe in purpose. It's impossible for homebrew or any other macOS CLI tool to properly update my entire system. It can't update my kernel because it doesn't have my package for example, and aliasing a command to run both its update and a CLI update for the App Store isn't the same since there won't be dependency matching between the two or conflict resolution (for example Python installed from XCode will still conflict with Python installed from homebrew). It's just not as polished as a proper Linux system.

>>57259595
>wget
>not curl
Pleb pls

>>57256998
>200 MB one-time install of jdk
>bloat

fact: programmers are more productive in java

fact: java performs near the same speed as c++

fact: java is easy to read and follow, increasing productivity further, beyond what c++ programmers can imagine

fact: java can optimize in ways c++ cannot precisely due to abstraction, thus leading in fact to sometimes higher speeds, blazing past c++ like a car past a horse...

fact: you know nothing about java, you know nothing about computers, know nothing about life, and you obviously know nothing about java. so whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be SILENT.

dare respond and your humiliation will be public.

>>57260101
>fact!
>post only opinions or unfalsifiable perspective-dependant claims

>>57260101
>java can optimize in ways c++ cannot precisely due to abstraction

can you give an example?

>>57257853
>systemd
Not even once you fucking retard

>>57260101
t. Pajeet

>>57259595
comes with curl, though...

>>57257061
Do people seriously believe this?
MacOS is a POSIX compliant unix based system, I've not touched the app store once.
If I want to I can compile from source, download applications from the internet, or use a package manager like brew or macports from the terminal.
MacOS is comfy as fuck, wouldn't touch the hardware though, when you can just build a hackintosh. Though it's not like you even need to especially build to install MacOS, as long as you're not running some sort of poorfag AMD shit, or crap ethernet/audio hardware, there aren't too many issues.

>>57260065
So Debian is not a suitable development environment because dev tools have to be installed manually? By default most Linux distros are setup to develop for Linux, which is great but only targets a very limited market unless you're writing OS agnostic code.

The reality is that homebrew is miles ahead of CygWin and MinGW. Even the Terminal (not talking about bash) is better on Linux and OS X.

>>57259790
>>57259595

brew install wget

install brew with the superior curl because wget is for fags anyway

>>57258305
>Not to mention doing audio on a pc is a nightmare
As oposed to what, doing audio on a console?

>>57259779
The App Store is full of crap anyway. Just enable auto updates to handle Xcode updates or don't use Xcode.

>>57260001
Entire Android dev team uses MacBook Pros. Come on man, jerk harder.

Can someone tell me how to install Bochs on MacOS.
I can't for the life of me build the source.

>>57260101

>fact: programmers are more productive in java
Compared to C++, which you are basing the rest of your argument on? Possibly. But you don't use C++ purely for productivity.

>fact: java is easy to read and follow, increasing productivity further, beyond what c++ programmers can imagine
Java is verbose. C++ is ugly.


>fact: java performs near the same speed as c++
>fact: java can optimize in ways c++ cannot precisely due to abstraction, thus leading in fact to sometimes higher speeds, blazing past c++ like a car past a horse...
In controlled benchmarks? Somewhat. In the real world? Not really. Java is a bitch to the cache, since objects cannot be lined up in sequential order in memory (an arraylist of objects is actually an arraylist of pointers to that object, not the object itself). In any case, the performance of Java exists not due to its abstraction, but the advanced JIT, that can make optimizations specific to the machine it is running on, and recompile to improve tight loops. Conveniently, this really helps out in some benchmarks. It does not help so much when you have tons of heap-allocated objects and a stop the world garbage collector.

There's a reason why C++ is used for most performance-sensitive software.

>>57260800

Homebrew may be miles ahead of Cygwin/MSYS2 for package management, but it's still pretty shitty compared to native Linux package managers.

>>57255206
>unix-ish environment
macOS is literally Unix. It's more Unix than Linux is. It's as Unix as you can possibly get.

>>57259914
>can I add it with brew tap
yes

>>57258879
> Complilation requires XCode
Not at all.

>>57255922
>marketed in the 2000's
That was a decade ago, your argument is irrelevant.

>>57256440
>artform
Christ almighty

>>>/v/
You have to go back

>>57258729
You apparently haven't tried very hard. Between the Keyboard Shortcuts menu, Accessibility preferences, and Automator, you can in fact map virtually anything to a keyboard shortcut. Even recorded GUI macros. Also, download Spectacle if you want keyboard-controlled window tiling and layout.

>>57256933
This.
Programming is pretty much the same on ALL platforms

>>57256440
>artform
Fucking kill yourself dude

>>57260174
Here's an example:

You write really, really, really bad C++ code.

You write good Java code.

You run a benchmark and compare each. Java program performs task in smaller timeframe.

>>57256440
>woah playing Hearthstone for 5 hours today really inspired me

>>57254966
Because in general I spend less time fucking around with the OS and actually make things.

>>57264119
>>57256746
>>57262466
>>57263104

You can say the same thing about a Michal Bay film or a Rush Limbaugh novel. It doesn't mean that GOOD books, movies or games take a large amount creativity or skill. Not that uninspired, lazy and talent-less neckbeards would know anything about either.

>>57256007
Yeah but anime is not, kys

>>57262640
AppleScript is pretty neat too. I didn't actually take it seriously until very recently.

I use an iMac because I write iOS apps at home for beer money.
>would you make the choice again
No, no I wouldn't. Fuck swift.