Anyone else amazed at how fast ARM is progressing? We went from

>>57169285
Eh.

Where are your statistics?

>>57169285
Yup
I own a Pentium 4 desktop and right now, my phone has more processing power than it. My phone isn't even the fastest one around, it's mid high end at best.

I am amazed by the progress ARM based chips have made in the past few years. But the big question still is, why aren't we using these ARM chips as ridiculously low power computers? I mean their performance is pretty good, plus they're power efficient, they would make the perfect low power desktop at home that gets used for browsing the internet once in a while or similar tasks. Wouldn't it make computers affordable for everyone in poor countries

>>57169529
Isn't that pretty much an SBC like rpi?

What I don't understand is why aren't there more powerful variants with SDA6xx or MTK helio processors.

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>>57169550
Never mind, just discovered odroid.

Shit this looks awesome.

>>57169550
There are new ARMADA 8040 (quad core a72) and mediatek dev boards coming for around 300$, just wait

>>57169285
The xbox 360's cpu is worse than a c2d in every way, it's probably slower than a single c2d core. The only advantage it has is it's clocked really high but it's IPC is shittier than Pentium 4.

ARM is shit still not because of any hardware reasons but because there is no software to use it. It is also only fast at things that are tested in micro benchmarks like geekbench, there is no general use case to test against.

>>57169585
>$300
Might as well just buy an apu or i3 build at that price though. The appeal of SBCs is low performance, low power consumption, low cost.
Like the Intel atoms.

>>57169589
I think it's getting quite powerful for what it's used for. I've got like 10 tabs open in opera and my mt6753 isn't lagging yet while listening to music in the background, got messenger open too(chat head), and posting this via clover. Imagine a SD820, A10, or MT6797t.

None of this is too demanding, but how is this significantly different from what the average person uses their desktop or laptop for?

>>57169285
[citation needed]

>>57169621
Due to one being mobile versus one being desktop, would there be a workload difference? I would imagine that mobile apps are built to be lighter weight than a desktop application.

>>57169578
>Android 4.4

>>57169621
in that case you got PINE64, assberry pi 3, amazon has a tv box with quad core a72, dragonboard 410c etc...best is odroid c2 tho with the amlogic s905 indeed

>>57169651
If a mobile browser doesn't have any issues browsing the web, why not just use that on a desktop if it's lighter?

I always just assumed they were all chromium reskins, even on mobile.

>>57169285
>Anyone else amazed at how fast ARM is progressing?
Nah, it's still an angry birds processor in the end.

>We went from c2d performance last year to now being able to perform as well as an xbox 360 with the igpu.
xbox 360 was made in 2005, of course modern angry birds processors are about the same.

>If you're going to rail on it for matching such old hardware in performance
In the end it's not that impressive when compared to x86 processors. They have like 20% the performance-per-watt of modern x86 processors. So yeah they consume little power but performance is fucking dogshit as a result since their IPC is so shit.

>don't forget that this is a 2w processors that goes inside smartphones.
Wrong. These battery vampires can consume up to 10W especially when the GPU and CPU are put under load at the same time.

In the end ARM processors have shit performance for the power they consume. A modern Core-M processor like the m7-6Y75 would consume less then half the power of an ARM processor doing the same things. Only reason we don't use them is because they would make phones very expensive but other than that Android is more than happy to be run on X86 processors (see zenfone 2).

>>57169285
ARM is a lot of fun. I've been developing for it since last year. Hopefully soon we will get more support from desktop devs. I'd love to ditch Intel and AyyMD for good.

Most of those benchmarks test functionality of the CPU that has dedicated hardware like decryption and encryption.

>>57169685
I'm not impressed to have an Xbox 360 in my pocket
>Something capable of running GTA V
>In my pocket

>>57169621
Mobile OS's work differently than desktop ones but mobile browsers are actually a lot less bloated than desktop ones, since a lot of benchmarks on mobile is web dependent, they have spent a lot of time optimizing browsers, on desktop, not so much. It's not really the cpu that makes a browser lag, it's the ram management and OS thread switching.

>>57169664
> implying
It clearly states 5.1 for the C2, their newest model.

>>57169550
Yeah what I mean is exactly like a RPi but with all the additional peripherals like PCIe, SATA, additional ram slots etc
I don't get it, a 200$ Chinese phone can have a very fast ARM CPU, but since reason SBC makers like odroid and RPi are stuck on slow ass CPUs with outdated GPUs like Mali-460. It would be great if they could make a SBC with something like x20 Helio with Mali-860 or something

>>57169651
The truth is the the majority of computer use is mobile, these days. If you're a power user or PC gamer, then you might need to run full-fat x86 software, but these days even Chrome OS is capable enough for almost all users. And don't forget there are users who only really use their smartphone.

>>57169685
Cost is a factor though. ARM can deliver at rock bottom where Intel isn't interested in going. Lots of markets are potentially open. Performance is coming up too.

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>>57169685
>core M
>in a phone

>>57169723
This too
You can literally buy a considerably beefy ARM based CPU for less than 20$

You fags think about it, ARM was never popular for its processing power. If we wanted processing power, we would have gone to POWER or one of those custom MIPS architectures probably. But no, ARM is known for its power efficiency, low cost, and widespread availability

>>57169685
I remember you
You're the cunt who used to make zenfone threads all day long and posted "I wish for a goldmont atom based zenfone" in those threads

>>57169461
Answer the anon, OP!!

>>57169792
Too bad intel completely abandoned atom and not goldmont is doa, would be cool tho.

>>57169814
No because mainstream x86 is inefficient as fuck compared to ARM.

>>57169776
allwinner sells quad core cortex a53 for 5$ that has same integer / fp performance of ATOM Z3735F

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>>57169701
>I'm not impressed to have an Xbox 360 in my pocket
>>Something capable of running GTA V
At 20-24 FPS, very very low detail, super low quality textures, and almost non-existent shadows/vegetation. In fact you can't even achieve these kind of super low settings on the PC.

Wake me up when you can run the PC version of GTA V on max settings at 1080p and get a minimum of 60 FPS.

>>57169835
They also have one for $4 that's capable of decoding 4k 30fps h264.

>>57169843
Weak bait. Leave.

>>57169285
If it's not going to run anything better than a browser, then what's the point? It's just a phone cpu in the end.

>>57169826
I'm not shilling for them to make more atom phones, I just want to see what intel can actually do from a technical standpoint. Silvermont was actually pretty decent but if they really did hit the goals they originally were going for for goldmont, we could have netbooks that can playback high quality video, have enough ram for modern web browsing and do pretty much all the shit that normal people do on computers besides modern games. That would be pretty cool imo.

In the end it would just hurt intel's bottom line because nobody would need to buy their expensive shit which they didn't subsidize.

>>57169875
It already did that. Why buy a dual core Pentium laptop when quad core atoms with better battery life are cheaper.

>>57169754
Their tdp can be configured down to 3.5W. Why wouldn't you want modern core-m on an Android phone? Don't you want a chip that can surpass the Apple A10?

>>57169826
In what ways? Modern x86 chips use less energy for the same things ARM does and has batshit crazy good single core performance.

>>57169872
well guess who's throwing their single core 2008 laptop away and getting some mini board instead

>>57169872
>They also have one for $4 that's capable of decoding 4k 30fps h264.
They don't. It can decode 8-bit low bitrate 1080p H264 video at 30 FPS but it can't even decode 10-bit low bitrate 720p H264 or even 8-bit high bitrate 720p H264.

>Weak bait. Leave.
Are you literally retarded and blind?

>>57169776
>>57169835
Exactly. Mass produced ARM laptop and AIO computers could be made for less than the production cost of an intel chip alone. The only lacking factor at the moment is software.

>>57169912
Don't. ARM is fucking shit and has no x86 software compatibility. You'll have a much better time building an AM1 desktop with a $30 athlon 5150 x86 cpu and a used GPU. You'll probably spend less than $100 if you look around enough.

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>>57169933
Weak bait.
Leave.

http://www.cnx-software.com/2014/12/08/allwinner-h3-4k-ott-tv-box/

>>57169941
software is the biggest thing when dealing the hardware

>>57169941
Software is not lacking either, all linux apps from x86-64 were ported perfectly, mali drivers etc all is down. Imagine a quad core cortex a53 board with 4gb ram, 64gb latest emmc, sata, PCI-E, HDMI 2.0, it would be nuts

>>57169285
mips is at 1000 cores now

>>57169959
but anon, that 5$ cpu literally has double performance of this old ass laptop and has native 4k playback etc.

>>57169941
Software isn't that scarce either, most Linux distribution have an ARM port. Look at debian or Ubuntu, they have excellent ARM and AARCH64 repositories

>>57169969
Those are industrial grade CPUs anon
The one you're talking of probably consumes more power than my desktop running at full capacity

>>57169966
You still can't run crysis or x86 photoshop on an ARM board or any kind of x86 software not compiled for a meme OS with less than 2% marketshare for that matter.

Only useful thing an ARM board could do is let you rice the desktop and post on desktop threads.

>>57169986
>playing games
>doing graphic editing
no thanks, I have a real job and adult things to do lol

>>57169975
It also has 0% x86 software support and you can achieve hardware decoding without a GPU on the AM1 build I mentioned since the Athlon 5150 comes with an iGPU good enough for 8-bit 30FPS 4K H264 low bitrate video.

>>57169986
I can't tow an RV with my sedan either, but I am fairly certain that there's a good market for economy cars.

>>57170008
it's ok, all the software I need is already ported to Aarch64, and the board I have my eyes on is 25$

>>57169994
You mean like spending hours ricing your desktop or configuring linux for the 12 billionth time? :^)

>>57170023
Is it the orange pi pc plus?

I'm thinking of picking one up for my own personal HTPC

>>57170026
sure, if that makes you feel better about not having anything significant to do with your life like me.

>>57170034
pine64+ 2GB version
I'll be doing some embedded C programming, some C network programming, webdev and watching videos playing urbanterror, its just perfect

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>>57170019
If ARM were a car it would be pic related.

>>57170023
See you on the next desktop thread I guess. Make sure to include some generic moe blob plastered in the middle of the screen.

>>57169826
x86 is more efficient. ARM is lower power.

>>57170054
sure, cant wait to see your latest minecraft gf build on /v/

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>>57170046
Interesting.

I'm going to grab pic related. It's using the H3 which is great for budget HTPCs and hopefully the cpu is powerful enough to browse the web and shitpost too.

>>57170106
no doubt, especially if the browser is a single task i don't see much issue with it, android also has good browsing optimizations on ARM. have fun brah

>>57170133
Cheers. You too mate.

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>>57170106
Yeah I own an orange pi and I recommend you not to
You'll need a heatsink since the H3 makes a shitload of heat. There are better SBCs out there

>>57170155
>you need a heatsink
I have plenty lmao. I doubt heat is that much of an issue.

I'll probably toss an old northbridge heatsink on there and call it a day, I'm sure that's plenty.

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>>57170155
Also how's Linux performance? Should I stick to Android?

>>57170242
Linux performance is great, I'm using the MATE Ubuntu on it right now. It comes with pretty much everything out of the box, you'll need a USB WiFi adapter if you intend to use Wi-Fi though

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http://gizmodo.com/new-kilocore-chip-is-the-worlds-first-with-1-000-proc-1782305737

In an impressive display of one-upmanship, UC Davis has created a monster of a chip, called “KiloCore,” which houses 1,000 independent processors. After a bit of math, that comes out to a maximum computation rate of 1.78 trillion instructions per second. Holy shit.

But arguably the more impressive feat is how UC Davis was able to make such a monster chip actually energy efficient. According to UC Davis, the chip can perform 115 billion instructions per second and only give off .7 Watts, making it approximately 100 times more efficient than modern silicon you’d find in your laptop, and can even be powered by a simple AA battery. Also, because each core is independent, they can be shut off completely when inactive for even better energy efficiency.

>>57170380
Cheers. Already got a wifi adapter and a 128GB shark from csg.
This should be fun.

Can it be overclocked higher than the stock 1.6ghz?

>>57170242
Dumbass, Android is powered by Linux.

>>57170403
Not anymore idiot now it contains ASM and even binary but no linux.

>>57170397
Dude it overheats to the point of shutting itself down at stock speed if used without a heatsink, overclocking will kill it without fail

>>57170439
Yeah but I've got heatsinks so I'm good

>>57169529
>But the big question still is, why aren't we using these ARM chips as ridiculously low power computers?
Because if you actually want the performance of out desktop class processors they need to draw as much power as our desktop class processors.

ARM processors aren't magic. Hertz isn't a good measure and general processing is not Geekbench.

>>57169872
>>57169960
That's dedicated hardware decoding capability. It has nothing to do with the computational power of the processor.

>>57170545
>general processing is not geekbench
>what is closs platform benchmarking
opinion discarded

>>57170385
>that comes out to a maximum computation rate of 1.78 trillion instructions per second. Holy shit.
Knights landing can output 3+ trillion instructions per second (double precision) with a TDP of less than 300 watts and only uses 72 x86 cores at 1 Ghz.

This 1000 core angry birds processor must use like 1 megawatt of electricity on load.

>>57170545
Only the young say Hertz doesn't matter, if you've never seen it double then you've no idea. If someone sat you in front of an 8ghz machine you wouldn't say Hertz don't matter.

>>57170106
>>57170155
I have an Orange Pi PC and the clock rates they put on it are stupid high, it is essentially factory overclocked. Get the fex tools and modify the config file that comes with whatever distro you get to downclock it to around 1.2GHz if you are going to do anything intensive on it or else it will sit at 75+C under any load.

I installed Debian Jessie on mine. It's been kinda a pain because I'm trying to work on it mostly headless but I'm getting there.

>>57170565
>what is closs platform benchmarking
Something that has not shown ARM processors to be on par with with desktop x86 processors.
Geekbench is an anomaly.

>>57170577
Hertz isn't a good measure because it doesn't translate across IPC changes or architectures.
Most processors now at 1GHz will kick the shit out of the first Athlon 1GHz, limited to a single core.
That's why you can't just compare clock speeds.

>>57170559
And?

You don't see that in cheap Intel processors so all cares.

>>57170586
Is heat an issue if I use a heatsink?

>>57169529
>>57170545
>they need to draw as much power as our desktop class processors

You're wrong. ARM is competitive with low-power "desktop" processors right now. The problem is that you're not talking about "desktop" processors; you're talking about x86 processors. The real problem with ARM has been that compared to x86, ARM has had less software and less software support. However, that's changing; Android apps are becoming available on Chromebooks, and that not only brings a gigantic amount of ARM software to a "desktop" platform, but also unifies the user experience across multiple devices.

I fully expect Chromebooks to dominate the market over the next few years, as AMD and Intel will never compete with chips priced in the single-digits (for the majority of use cases (read: not /g/)).

There is a very real chance that RISC-V can eat its lunch.

I kind of hope it does, because out-of-tree kernels and blob drivers and all that crap is a blight on the ARM ecosystem. We need a clean start and it doesn't get a lot cleaner than rv64a.

>>57170632
I have yet to heatsink mine but you have to keep in mind that the chip doesn't have a heat spreader, so it won't interface with a heatsink as well as your Intel CPU for example.
You will likely get a few degrees but that's all.

>>57170614
Because they can software decode it.
It very much depends on your application. If you're just making a cheap HTPC then sure, go for ARM so you get that based hardware decoding with low power consumption.

>>57170793
What makes you think a RISC-V SoC wouldn't make blobs?

Wake me up when there is a standardized ARM computer spec which uses a motherboard with normal sized PCI express ports for expansion rather than yet another trashy incompatible credit card SOC we seem to get every other month.

>>57170858
wouldn't have*

>>57170839
It's not just low power consumption. It's a tiny board and it's also cheap. Original orange pi pc sells for under $20, including shipping.

I'm thinking of using one larger heatsink to also cover the ram. I can get heatsinks easily, my friend does pc repair and has a stack of them in the back, literally.
Only issue is, how to mount?
Zip ties?

>>57169285
Ooh an Arm thread? I have so many questions for people who might know, if you wouldn't mind humouring me for a moment....

1) In the early 90s, my dad was very technically minded so we always had a family computer at a time when many didn't. We had an Acorn Archimedes, and later an A3020, and we hung on to that until about 98-99 before he finally caved and went windows. He was insistent that the Acorn machines (powered by Arm processors and running RiscOS) were technically superior to the admittedly faster Intel machines. The analogy he gave me at the time was this - Arm chips improved by increasing efficiency, tweaking and restructuring for gains in performance while keeping cool and low power. Intel chips however just crudely ramped up the power/speed and bolted larger heatsinks and fans on to stop it from melting under the strain. Intel dominated the market because of this speed, but he always said it was a shame people were so short-sighted, because with proper funding the Arm chips were the better way forward. Was he right? Was the analogy accurate? Were Acorn machines actually the shit?

2) Later when I was at uni, I was told by a lecturer that 98% of chips in the world were Arm, basically everything that wasn't a desktop computer or laptop. Was/Is this true? If so, why isn't Arm (a British company I believe) one of the biggest companies in the world, totally dominating intel and amd by now?

3) if all this is true and Arm chips are so amazing, why aren't desktop PCs running a stack of them instead of a single intel chip? Wouldn't it run much better this way? What's to stop a company resurrecting the Acorn philosophy? Are Arm chips the future? Was my dad right all along?

Sorry this is a pretty big ask, but I've wondered this stuff for years now, since my dad passed I haven't been able to ask him what he might think now, so I would love to know your opinions /g/

>>57170877
>Only issue is, how to mount?
Thin layer of thermal compound and press down.

>>57170656
>ARM is competitive with low-power "desktop" processors right now.
Last time I checked the benchmarks, the A8 was performing about as well as a ULV core 2. That's not particularly impressive given the age gap. Do you have anything that contradicts that? Keep in mind that geekbench is not viable for comparing across architectures or operating systems because of some rather serious weighting issues.

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Alright posting from my OrangePi PC
Thanks to this thread i remembered i have it too

>>57171182
>IBM powerpc
Wat

Also what browser? Does midori work on arm? That's with no heatsink, correct? What frequency?

Can you play youtube 720p without stutter?
Do you have zram enabled?

>>57171182
My OrangePi is at 57 degrees running three einstein@home binaries at 1.2GHz.

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>>57171216
IBM PowerPC means screenfetch can't find the correct CPU name

>Also what browser? Does midori work on arm?
Currently using Chromium, it can't preinstalled. Yes midori works on ARM.

>That's with no heatsink, correct? What frequency?
Pic related us my heatsink, No idea if it fits the definition, just a stack of coins. I locked the clock with the upper limit at 1Ghz

>Can you play youtube 720p without stutter?
Let me check

>Do you have zram enabled?
No

>>57169959
>athlon 5150
for $30 you could get a used q6600 and have much better performance. C2D motherboards are worth nothing nowadays too.

>>57171275
Nope
Technically it can play YouTube at 720p, there are some stutters here and there. I tested both at 1.5GHz and at 1GHz
Temperature jumps to ~75C on 1.5GHz from 55C idle. Ambient is around 30C

>>57171340
Thanks for the test mate.
Also think it's super cool that you're using coins as a heatsink.

>>57170577
You're a FUCKING retard.
It's not just about clock speed, but clock multiplier and other shit.

>>57171242
Thats really cool mate
I am scaling down a 1080p video down to 720p, even limited at 1GHz, the CPU touches 67C
And if i turn off the limiter and return the max clock to 1.5GHz, the baby goes nuclear hot at 80C
What is you ambient temp? Mine is around 30

>>57171627
Would you recommend it for a htpc? I intend to use Ubuntu mate.

>>57171638
No chance in hell, i am using ubuntu mate too
It can't even play 1080p video, not youtube video, i am talking of a locally stored run of the mill h264 1080p video

Its hardware is just too weak
I think I'll just use it as a download box to download all kind of sit to an external drive or something, its too weak for media consumption

>>57171676
It's got hardware acceleration though for h264 and h265, up to 4k30fps?

>>57171627
1.3GHz actually.
22C ambient.
Have you actually reduced the CPU voltages as well when you down clock it?
Check the CPU clock limit section on this page for appropriate voltages.
https://linux-sunxi.org/Orange_Pi_PC

5$ dolla processor faggot here, im back
i just ordered the pine64+
i might play with ARM64 assembly and make some embedded projects too
im excited

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>>57169285
>2w processors that goes inside smartphones.
32 Watt, 8-core, 64-bit ARM CPUs with lots of cache exist

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>toddlers judging technology solely by its ability to play non-free video games

>>57171865
Says the weaboo.
What's it like still watching childrens cartoons?
>>>/mlp/

>>57171275
SBCs being hooked up like this always look like a gangbang.

>>57170908
>2) Later when I was at uni, I was told by a lecturer that 98% of chips in the world were Arm, basically everything that wasn't a desktop computer or laptop. Was/Is this true? If so, why isn't Arm (a British company I believe) one of the biggest companies in the world, totally dominating intel and amd by now?
This is half-truth at best. All the actually profitable CPU markets - servers, mainframes, supercomputers, desktops - are dominated by x86 and POWER. There are lots of ARM chips no doubt, but pretty much all of them are low-cost, low-profit chips. And ARM doesn't even make those chips themselves, they just license the designs. IBM is bigger than ARM because while ARM may produce 1000 times as many chips(and licenses even more), IBM makes more than 1000 times as much money per CPU sold.

>>57172199
>but pretty much all of them are low-cost, low-profit chips
with the possible exception of ARMs in server (which is a small niche) and smartphone flagships which can demand a premium.

>>57172966
The chips are generally cheap and most of the costs come from other technologies.

Apple is the only company making mad cash on their phones which just goes to show how cheap everything else in them is.

>>57170908
>Was he right? Was the analogy accurate?
Yes

ARM became dominant in embedded/mobile because of those characteristics

>PCs running a stack of them instead of a single intel chip? Wouldn't it run much better this way?
No programming for it would be difficult

>>57170036
dude you're so fucking cool.

>>57169994
you are an immense faggot.