Admit it: Linux was the first Unix you ever used, and now you've

Linux isn't UNIX.
Linux is a kernel typically used in conjunction with the GNU system, which, as the name says, is NOT UNIX.

>>57112250
Sad, true but nothing new. Everyone knows Linux users are weaselly hypocrites.

>>57112250
The first Unix I used was Solaris in 1994,
and
Linux
Is
Not
Uni
X

epic

>>57112250
The place I work is built on actual Unix (Solaris) but they are transitioning to Linux

Sorry BSDfags

>>57114403

Oh noes, your gay porn studio isn't moving to BSD? I'm sure that keeps Theo up at night.

>>57112250
Linux was the first I used. OpenBSD was the first one that I really learned Unix through though.


>>57112317

It's semantics. Linux is Unix-like, and is mostly POSIX compliant. If you know your way around Linux, you can quickly learn your way around the BSDs or Solaris. The reason it and the BSDs aren't called Unix is legal, and not technical.

>>57114418
> I'm sure that keeps Theo up at night.
it probably does. biggest inferiority complex I've ever seen.

>>57114441
Thanks Captain Obvious, I was perfectly aware of that. And yet, none of what I said was factually incorrect. I rest my case. A good day to you, sir. *takes vape out of cargo pants and takes a pull* I will be seeing you around.

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>>57112250
>Linux was the first Unix you ever used

Isn't MacOS Unix? I feel like most people have used that before they used GNU/Linux

>>57112250
I'm not using a shitbox I found in the dumpster, hence no drivers BSD is out of the picture

List:       freebsd-hackers
Subject:    Re: RealTek RTL 8129 PCI Fast Ethernet Card
From:       Richard Goh <accel () pacific ! net ! sg>
Date:       1998-06-30 23:48:16
[Download message RAW]

Hi,
Thanks for the info.
So far so bad, now I have a $2.5k machine sitting pretty on its own and
cant even change the network card which is on the motherboard.
Looks like the only option left is to port the linux driver.
Anyone with some experience on this ?
Or is there a guide?

TIA
Richard

BSD has always been a joke and will always be

>>57114444
checked

>>57114529
Yes, that's the excuse they always give.

>>57114529
Xnu is not unix

>>57114631
KEK

>>57114451
>none of what I said was factually incorrect.

Yes, Semantics as I said. In addition to that you are a faggot as well.

>>57112250
You probably can't even verbalize what's better about BSD or Solaris compared to Linux.

>>57114631
>1998

We being topical now! We'll also ignore the fact that Linux had the exact same issue back then as well.

>>57112250
Linux was the first Unix-like OS I ever used, the first Unix I ever used was OS X.

>>57116266
>port the linux driver

>LINUX HAD THE SAME ISSUE!!!!

obviously it didn't

>>57112250

BSD does indeed do a lot of things better. The documentation is top notch. Linux has always felt like a lot of pieces strapped onto the kernel, BSD comes in one complete package. And honestly pf is miles ahead of ip tables. Just on a readability standpoint, I can look at a complex pf config I wrote from 6 moths ago and make out what it is it's doing. But when it comes to ip tables? It looks like a giant clusterfuck.

>>57116305
>it had one driver freeBSD doesn't almost 20 years ago
>this somehow fucking matters today
>being this utterly brain dead

>>57116305
>1998

GNU/Linux was absolute shit back then, too, and the fact that one network card was supported on Linux but not FreeBSD is meaningless.

>>57112250
No. I also tried bsd and found out it sucks about a million dicks.

>>57116393
BSD does *all* long-running services better than Linux, pf included.

>>57116453
You never tried any of the BSDs.

>>57116453
i tried your mom and found out the same thing

>>57116266
>>57116432
>>57116435
stay mad bsdtards, the rtl8129 was one of the cheap 100mbit ethernet cards at the time and of course BSD didn't have drivers while linux had full suport. today it's the same with gpu drivers, bsd only supports old trash.

>>57116305
>this is the level of reading comprehension freetards have
wew

>>57116487
This is an 18+ website

>>57114661
Its unix certified though

>>57116525
There are UNIX certified Linux distros as well, they're still not Unix.

>>57116503
wow you are on meds, aren't you?

>>57116487
NVIDIA provides a binary driver for FreeBSD, so GPUs are supported just as well on at least one BSD as they are on Linux. Also, who cares about GPU drivers? Even Windows doesn't support a large portion of NVIDIA's own CUDA tooling.

I was gonna try out some bsd distro this weekend actually so shut up

>>57116573
>who cares about GPU drivers
I don't want to use an OS that only supports software mode for my 3 year old gpu,
>nvidia
no thanks

>>57116257
>You probably can't even verbalize what's better about BSD or Solaris compared to Linux.
>documentation worth a shit
>higher code standards (much higher with openbsd)
>no kernel blobs
>pf
>ports
>no opinionated distro shit
if openbsd had better vendor support (tru open sauce drivers rather than blobshit) it would be the perfect operating system

>>57116755
>tru open sauce drivers rather than blobshit
Keep dreaming friendo

>>57112250
FreeBSD actually.

>>57112250
I just don't think BSD gives me the advantages I enjoy with Linux, sorry man. I'm sorry to see the BSD community taking such an elitist stance on /g/ as of late. Kind of disheartening to me.

But broadcom support on BSD is shotty at best, and it's really lacking in the driver department. (Muh vidya)

Linux is JUST NOW entering a usable

>>57116804
doesn't really bother me, i don't have high requirements on my memebsd boxes

just saying that proper vendor support was what's holding bsds back, loonix suffers from the exact same issue they just get around it in a way that'll harm them in the long run

>>57112250
>tfw it was actually NeXTSTEP

linux is fucking shit tho i agree

it's called the second system effect

>>57116573
don't make BSD look bad by being a retard
>who cares about ... drivers
let me just power this device I can't use

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>>57116305
>derp derp derp!

No "sir" you are wrong about this, and you should be completely ashamed of yourself (just as your parents are) for being such a retarded fagget.

>>57116393
>Linux has always felt like a lot of pieces strapped onto the kernel

It only feels that way because it is that way.

>>57116453
>tried bsd
>because there's only one of them

>first Unix you ever used
Nope. AT&T Unix back in the fucking 80s. And *BSD after that.

GNU still whips the everloving shit out of all of them.

Fucking paid Winshit cumsucker. Get the fuck out of /g/.

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>>57116555
>There are UNIX certified Linux distros as well
>they're still not Unix.

Are you just pretending to be retarded?

>>57119967
Unix ≠ UNIX

>>57119963
Sure you have, you seem like an informed fella. Please tell me more about the internals of the BSDs today and compare them to Linux internals. I'm talking core kernel features here, such as the TCP/IP stack, use of invariants, their security, filesystems, tracing technologies and so on. Hint hint, there's a reason why Google ports stuff from the BSDs to the Linux kernel.

>>57112250
Dear OP,
Which BSD has the best hardware compatibility?

Why would I use BSD if I don't run servers?

>>57122747
Because it works well as a desktop OS too.

nope, first unix i used was macOS

while i do use both linux and macos, i have looked at the alternatives and don't see any reasons relevant to my use case that make switching to them worth my time

that's not to say that the alternatives don't have their merits, i just don't personally have a use for them. there's no need to reply to this and defend your obscure *nix flavor

>>57116393
>Linux has always felt like a lot of pieces strapped onto the kernel, BSD comes in one complete package.
Isn't BSD comprised of bits and pieces of Linux? On top of their own garbage?

>>57123002
No, the BSDs were a thing before Linux.

BSD used to be good, but development has kinda died on the desktop side. Not many companies are paying mainline BSD devs.

There are a lot of BSD forks on proprietary hardware - I think all the juniper stuff is some bastardised version of BSD.

Lot of people like BSD and the license makes it appealing to many.

>>57123002
Basically yeah.
They don't have developers so after they port something from Linux and gut it they don't update it anymore.

>>57112250

Linux isn't UNIX.

>>57123319
Some are.

>>57122804
Not that guy, but I wanna ask how you would configure Open, Net, or FreeBSD as a desktop OS, assuming I've gotten past the installation and (for FreeBSD) installed the X Window System and have the ports tree and PKG_ADD shit down, more-or-less.

I'm thinking about re-installing OpenBSD on one of my partitions because I think I fucked up somewhere.

>>57123345
I'd suggest OpenBSD for a desktop. And just install your WM/DE of choice and the programs you'd normally use.

>>57112250
I used Mac os X before I used linux, and now I use FreeBSD, so IDK what the fuck.

Like most people in the early/mid 90's I used SunOS. I had a shell from my ISP, and at the time, most internet tutorials/faqs/howtos assumed you were on a UNIX system. It's how I learned to use USEnet, gopher/wais, and irc. After my 486 wouldn't run Win95, I put slackware on it and been on GNU/Linux more often than not.

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>>57116471

>>57123495
I'd suggest never using OpenBSD for anything but a server. FreeBSD is a much better distro for a desktop.

>>57123796
OpenBSD's actually intended for and dogfooded as a desktop OS, FreeBSD devs just use OS X.

>>57112250
Sorry, I'm not a kid. Started off with Solaris/iris/BSD. Now go fuck off.

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ITT: people desperately googling names of BSD distros to prove that they "used Unix".

Who gives a fuck.

>>57124279
>BSD
>distro

Also
>implying nobody uses BSD
>implying only BSD users know what the major BSDs are called
You're retarded.

>>57120879
>the internals
I'm sure there's something salvageable in that clusterfuck that can be used in other systems, but as a whole, *BSD is slow, very inflexible, and isn't compatible with shit. *BSD is much like plain Unix: it's made for a very single-purpose use and doesn't perform that well when branching out to other use cases. It works well as a plain, uncomplicated server, for example. GNU, on the other hand, is designed to be flexible, powerful in many instances, and usable for anything you want it to be used for.

Sure, if you want an ultra-secure megaserver, you might want to go with a BSD. But if you want a solid, general purpose OS, GNU destroys anything else in existence.

And that is what tears you apart inside, whether you are a staunch BSD neckbeard or (more likely) a paid Microsoft FUDster trying to once again discredit GNU because your shitty OS is fading fast.

>>57124342
so BSD works well in :
>It works well as a plain, uncomplicated server
and
>Sure, if you want an ultra-secure megaserver, you might want to go with a BSD.

Well that covers my use-cases.

>>57124384
Your only use case is a simple, secure server?

Not, say, a home PC? Or a workstation? Or a laptop? Or a complex hosting solution server? You don't need any of these things?

Bull
Fucking
Shit.

Lying fucking Microsoft shill, leave.

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>>57112250
True anon, this is clearly better than Linux

>>57124431
>a home PC? Or a workstation? Or a laptop?
All the same use cases now. the difference being ECC ram. Never needed a big video card since I don't do CAD. Even went cheapo framebuffer on the Sun Ultra5 "workstation" I used in college.

>Or a complex hosting solution server?
covered under ultra-mega secure megaserver (much like netflix, yahoo services..etc)

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why are you fags so keen on UNIX purity? Don't you realize nobody really cares about it? once you are in the userland, not amount of dogma will make your software architecture correct.

What the unix legacy is, is a way to structure the low-level system (unix api, fildes) that is know to impose little contrains and it is well studied. Is not really a good design as it is a design with good survivorship rate. That you fags obsess about the purity of UNIX on the BSD and recognize that linux is more popular/better survivor is a point against you

Mac OS 8 was mine

>>57124621
0/10

>>57114631
Bsd will forever be porting shit from linux.
Always.

>>57116954
>just saying that proper vendor support was what's holding bsds back


No, your license is.

>>57125611
Sure thing commie

>>57123816
>FreeBSD devs just use OS X.

You mean freebsd devs use osx to develop freebsd.

>>57124461
It would want to be with the price it fetches.

>>57125641
As in they don't use FreeBSD on their desktops and laptops.

>>57125615
But its true.
So long as you dont have to supply the source when reissuing a program companies like apple and sony will only take and give nothing back and as a result bsds will always be behind GNU Linux.

>>57125668
Forcing contributions is the most retarded thing I've ever heard of.

>>57125684
Yes in a sense it is, but im saying that more commie licensing will drive bsd alot further alot quicker.
Thats all.
Apple will hate it and sony will have to think for themselves for once but its bsd you use right?

>>57125710
>Apple will hate it and sony will have to think for themselves for once
That's the problem, I disagree with this. I think the fact that Apple and Sony can use it is a pro. The license is basically like plopping your software on the table and saying "look what I made. You can use it if you want, or not, I don't really care. Just give me credit if you do."

>>57112250
Grew up on windows. Built my first pc as a young lad in early high school... immersed myself in the internet and learned of free software. Installed my first version of linux and never looked back. Used a VM for years just to play around with different distros, but now I dd ubuntu as a no shame casual /g/ent.

>>57125719
Yeah but just credit alone doesnt help bsd in return.
Take a look at ps3/4. They used bsd license instead of gpl because gpl would of made them reveal code that they want to keep secret.
Why should sony create something so good at bsd's expense and make heaps of money off it and just walk away like nothing happened? Thats a bit unfair for bsd dont you think?
If they developed they're own code then fine, but its your code that they took.

The sad thing about the linux bed wetters is they'll go along with anything RedHat wants to shove down their throat. That includes Linus himself who runs systemd[ick] on his development system.

>>57125764
>Yeah but just credit alone doesnt help bsd in return.
I never said it would. A license shouldn't be used to make something popular, it's used to define the rights third parties have to the software. I believe in the rights that the BSD license gives to third parties, and the devs obviously agree or they wouldn't be using BSD style licenses.

>>57125764
>>57125777
Also
>Why should sony create something so good at bsd's expense and make heaps of money off it and just walk away like nothing happened?
Because there's no reason to force them to reinvent the wheel.
>but its your code that they took.
They didn't "take" it, quit acting like it's theft. The devs are basically saying they're free to use it by licensing the software under the license they chose.

>>57125777
Checked.
I guess we just disagree here.
I just feel bsd would be far superior if you lot just kept the leeches in check.

>>57125796
I agree that it probably would be, but I disagree that that would be the proper way to make it happen.

>>57125790
>They didn't "take" it, quit acting like it's theft.
Im not acting like its theft, because it isnt.
Bsd allow it so they will take advantage of the situation.

>>57125809
>Bsd allow it so they will take advantage of the situation
As they should.

Bsd should charge companies for the freedom to close off source that is used.

>>57125826
no

>>57125812
I dont think so in some sense.
I feel the bsd's are copping a bit of a raw deal.
But, i guess that comes from a freetard way of thinking.

I got into BSD after learning how much Linux Kernel devs stole from BSD drivers.

>>57124342
I believe what you are referring to as simply "GNU" is, in fact, "GNU/Linux" or as I have taken to calling it "GNU+Linux"

I like BSDs. I've used FreeBSD, NetBSD, DragonflyBSD, and OpenBSD, and I liked them all for the most part. They're very pleasant systems, but I unfortunately wasn't able to use any of them but FreeBSD as my main operating system due to some driver issues. I used FreeBSD for around six months or so, but i got tired of troubleshooting failed compiles (from outside the ports system, not ports compiles). A new version of FreeBSD came out (9, I believe), and I thought I should upgrade.

Then I decided to just go back to crux.

I think I'll return to FreeBSD one day, though. Wish I had been able to try the others BSDs more thoroughly. I probably could now because this Sager laptop I use supposedly has good driver support from BSDs.

I'm actually not elitist about GNU/Linux, I am okay with any unix-like OS. I would even use or recommend Mac OS over Windows any day.

You are right in that I haven't really given BSD, Solaris, AIX, HPUX, etc. a chance. Maybe I should. I've never been much of a fan of virtual machines, though, and doing installs of BSD might be difficult. I don't know if I have any 'extra' hardware to play around on at the moment.

>>57112250
>Linux was the first Unix you ever used
1) Linux isn't a UNIX.
2) The first UNIX I used was SunOS and later Solaris
3) I use FreeBSD on my media server because ZFS
4) My daily driver is actually macOS, not Linux. I just use Linux at work, but at home I go comfort all the way

>>57114441
>GNU
>POSIX compliant
Not at all, unless you do major modding.

>>57126747
WTF are you on about? The only thing that isn't POSIX compliant in GNU is that they didn't pay the certification fee.

actually many people are using BSD now on the PS4.

>>57123495
> I'd suggest OpenBSD for a desktop.
Done. It was always my first choice, and it was what I was going to go with anyways.

> And just install your WM/DE of choice and the programs you'd normally use.
That's one of my problems. Slim is deprecated, and I'm an Xubuntu kiddie so I installed Xfce because I thought I could make it look less shit, but I'm totally inept so I couldn't into themes.

Fuck it, should I just go with Lumina, and how would I make it "look" like Xubuntu, short of doing everything the hard way? If I use Lumina, I don't have to install Slim, right?

After this, what's a good configuration for pf? I can't find anything after a rudimentary search.

>>57123796
>>57123816
>>57125641
>>57125657
LOL, BTFO

I don't give a fuck about operating systems anymore

>Linux was the first Unix you ever used
The first, but I've tried a couple more later on

But even if I haven't
>and now you've convinced yourself that it must be the best without considering any alternatives
No, why would I do that

>And you have the nerve to call Windows users "baby ducks."
How is this relevant, Linux supremacists don't laugh at Windows users because they haven't tried other OSs

NetBSD has Nouveau now....

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> falling for the commercial unix is actually good meme

wew

>>57125615
The GPL isn't communist, it's socialist. The BSD licence is communist since it gives you more freedom, and communism is more free than socialism, as socialism is authoritarian, like GNU.

>>57127189
What

>>57127237
Socialist: PRC, North Korea, Cuba, GPL
Communist: anarchist Catalonia, anarchist Ukraine, MIT licence, BSD licence, ISC licence

>>57124431

Could you do us all a favor and stop using Linux as well? We need less drooling retards, not more. Go back to defending Windows gaming like it's your woman or something.

>>57124431
Why in your bundle of autism do you think that BSD users are Microsoft shills?

>>57127642
He doesn't, he's just shitposting. GNUposters are very insecure.

>>57127642
nobody in their right mind would actually use BSD

>>57112250
If there's a free Unix-like OS with equally good software support I'd be happy to try it.

>>57128269
>If there's a free Unix-like OS with equally good software support I'd be happy to try it.

Same here. More OS are fun, and with VMs I can enjoy many. OS rivalry is stoopid. Run any selection which serves you. I don't pay for OS or software so it's all good.

>>57128269
(((software support)))
All open-source software is supported. To want anything else would be to say ``I love capitalism! Please let me eat the faeces of the rich! Oh yes!''

>>57112250
>this is what openplacebo fags are now stooping to
lol

>>57128545
>wanting to use free open-source software
>worshiping capitalism
???

>>57112250
Mac OS X may actually have been the first Unix I ever used. Hard to be certain; I came to using Linux at around the same time as I was making use of a friend's Mac. I primarily use Linux, but I do still use Mac OS as well. I've considered the various BSDs and even Solaris, but wound up deciding they don't offer me anything I care about that I don't get from my current setup.

>>57112250
I've used linux, freebsd, openbsd, and netbsd (more or less in that order)
I don't care for the latter three's package management, pacman is still my all time favorite package manager because fuck the outdated binaries and fuck the ports system on my underpowered shittop

>>57128614
>To want anything else
>else
That word means something other than open-source software.

>>57112250

GNU/Linux isn't Unix, it's just Unix-like.

And yes, I've tried BSD in the past. There just isn't enough software ported to BSD for me to consider using it on an average basis.

I've used freeBSD and it's not as user friendly as ubuntu.

>>57124342
I run it on my laptop and desktop PC. I really don't have any issues on it. That aside, it's much less of a clusterfuck than Linux is. I should know, I have looked at large portions of the code and developed both.

What you'll find in Linux is a sk_buff which holds everything from device register pointers to a socket. Sending an ACK with sk_buff requires you to have 4KB allocated. Not true with FreeBSD, which uses mbuf.

Another thing you might find in Linux is a recent debunking of Linux stability, namely the 4.8 release. Long story short, developers used BUG and BUG_ON at wrong places in the kernel, it passed the review and was merged. Linus then came with a genius idea to turn all the BUGs to WARNs, which instead of having an invariant helping you debug the system, you simply ignore it. Sounds like windows to me.

Let's also ignore the fact here that btrfs is far from anything close to being usable and that ZFS has been running in production for a decade. It's funny how btrfs in 9 years of it's development still has data corruption.

Also nothing's stopping you from using any kind of a high level language on FreeBSD for your application, as libuv supports kqueue, and nginx is developed on FreeBSD.

I could go on, but I could make a whole paper on this.

Of course, Linux has it's merits, but it's nowhere near as good as you make it out to be. Same holds true for any system, so stop fanboying.

I know UNIX had some NES and SNES video games as a kid

>>57128541
>I don't pay for OS or software so it's all good.

But you do pay anon. Very dearly. You pay with your freedoms. Every time you run a piece of software that the Free Software Foundation and Richard Stallman hasn't approved of you are literally flushing your freedoms down the toilet. You must obey Richard Stallman, and do exactly as you are told if you want to be free. And no, GNU/FSF isn't a cult, despite the vicious and cruel rumors being spread by the very people who are trying to enslave you via non-free software.

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People who hate BSDs only judge them by the amount of drivers and software. They don't even care about the technical aspects (and often don't even know anything about them), so if you're a Linux user and say that BSDs sucks because of these reasons, you're just as bad as a Windows user.

>>57130508
This.

>>57130508
This could not be more true.

>>57129828
To be fair, Linus was right about how BUG_ON was being used . Unless it's a situation where the kernel should absolutely not proceed, WARN macros are better because they don't crash the rest of the system. This is particularly important in Linux because there isn't always the quality assurance that a distro like FreeBSD will have - you may very well end up having to use a staging driver or even one that you pull from some non-official source to get your hardware working.

(IIRC, The straw that broke the camel's back was in the virtual memory subsystem, where that particular debugging feature was enabled by default on major distros like Red Hat. What was intended as a debugging feature could theoretically panic a stock commercial kernel.
source: https://lkml.org/lkml/2016/10/4/1 )

On a broader note, the problem isn't in the macros, it's in the Linux ecosystem itself. Because of the communal and "hacker" nature, you're much more likely to find unstable drivers and bits of experimental kernel code in Linux than any other mainstream OS. Most major distros will go to great lengths to check and disable these, but on a codebase that large, something will inevitably slip through now and again.

>>57112250
The first Unix I used was Mac OS. I like both Linux and BSD, but I think Linux is better for desktop. BSD makes a great server OS.

>>57130691
in all fairness about drivers, even on windows you're going to get fairly consistent new versions with the occasional breakage. this is one reason (besides money) a lot of software is pushing rolling updates on windows even outside of cloud/saas.

also if you compile a kernel, most experimental things are explicitly labelled as such.

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>>57124461

>>57123796
>FreeBSD is a much better distro for a desktop.
no one uses freebsd for a desktop.

>>57130691
That's my point though. BUG_ON was being used incorrectly, which led to problems. In order to ensure that BUG_ON is used correctly, code review should be thorough. Instead, even legitimate uses of BUG_ON now will be turned to WARN macros, causing future problems and lowering the overall quality of the code. This is extremely bad practice in any branch of Computer Science, not only OS. You don't really have to be a kernel developer to understand that there is an inherent problem in the approach Linus took on solving this problem.

>>57114631

Your argument that BSD is a joke is based on a dubious email from 1998?

Kill yourself.

>>57125764
Sony has submitted diffs to FreeBSD before. Quit acting like they took literally EVERYTHING without giving back.

>>57126960
if you're looking for something that's like Xubuntu, look up the greybird theme

i believe it actually comes with XFCE now

BSD License: So fucking free that proprietary software vendors sponsor paid BSD shills on the tech board of a chinese cartoon fansite.

>>57131810
x`D

>>57131810
GPL: So fucking free that it's supporters have the need to shitpost all over a tech board of a chinese cartoon fansite.

>>57131928
GPL: So fucking free that the person who wrote it eats shit from his feet.

>>57131810
>everyone that likes what I don't is a shill
Nice meme