What is /g/'s stance on piracy? You wouldn't really

Transferring 1's and 0's shouldn't be punishable, the system is fucked.

Yes, I would

>>56605715
0/10

piracy is the natural result to copyright
it existed before the internet and it will keep existing as long as copyright exists

>>56605647
software companies somehow only see piracy as a problem that happens to them and they feel totally absolved of any guilt for price gouging honest customers, which of course drives more people to piracy who normally wouldnt have bothered in the first place. The 'record industry' is most guilty of this, they created the need to pirate by jacking prices on honest buyers

Copyright longer than 20 years is bullshit.
Patents of 14 years are legitimate.
Trademarks for logos are legitimate.

I would certainly download a car.

>>56605647
>You wouldn't really download a car, would you?
http://dailycaller.com/2015/09/24/china-is-stealing-american-property/
it happens every day, more and more countries are using stolen technology to drive their industry as the US becomes a lessor player in the world market. Sooner or later countries are just going to blatently use blueprints of US/Japanese/German cars and there will be little to nothing that can be done about it

>>56605647
Wouldn't you think it was fucked up if you spent a huge amount of time, effort, and resources building a car, then I duplicated that car and gave it to someone else while keeping a copy for myself.

>>56605889
>Wouldn't you think it was fucked up if
Sure you would.

>I duplicated that car and gave it to someone else while keeping a copy for myself.
Private individuals are free to infringe on patents.

You can make anything you want. Patents aren't important unless you are selling the car.

>>56605647
>He doesnt have a 3D printed Ferrari

Top pleb, downloading a Lambo as I type this.

>>56605939
So you wouldn't be mad if I bought a product for you then developed a means to distribute that same exact product to millions of people for free without your consent or without giving you compensation?

>>56605970
*from you

File: fuckimautistic.gif (2MB, 360x203px)

2MB, 360x203px

>>56605759

>>56605647
If watching the movie Weird Science taught me anything as a child of the 80's, it was with a fast enough connection, anything is possible.

File: 1448154731653.jpg (827KB, 1980x828px) Image search: [Google]

827KB, 1980x828px

>>56605647
You're damn right I would download a car

>>56605970
>So you wouldn't be mad if I bought a product for you then developed a means to distribute that same exact product to millions of people for free without your consent or without giving you compensation?
Not at all.
All a patent grants is exclusive ability to produce a design aspect for commercial purposes.

I can make as many ACR copies as I want. I just can't sell/distribute them with immunity until the patent is expired.

>>56605647

It's wrong, but I do it anyway and hope that enough people pay to keep production going

>>56606028
all economies would crash if we could make copies of goods in the same way that we can copy digital media

>>56605647
Stealing a car is wrong because it deprives the car's owner of the use of the car
"pirating" music or movies or software doesn't do this, the marginal cost to make a duplicate copy is zero.

if it isn't tangible, it shouldn't even count as property

>>56605647
Depends.
I won't pay $30 for a CD, but I will use a service such as spotify and pay $13 a month for it.
This is because it's a fair price for a comfy service.
I boot my pc and hit play on the keyboard without even thinking.

Same with Netflix, $30 for a DVD is shit. And you have a disk for the rest of your life.
If it's not on Netflix I use pirate bay. I would pay $5-10 to buy and keep a digital copy of a movie though.
In my country SKY has a massive monopoly on everything, they managed to bully my ISP into taking away global addresses. Fuck SKY.

>>56606139
Also all they people saying making a duplicate is fine, its really not. It's lazy.

>>56606065
>all economies would crash if we could make copies of goods in the same way that we can copy digital media
Economies of scale.
In industries where the majority of the cost is materials and production, you won't see much impact.

But for industries where the majority of the cost isn't materials and production, there will be an impact.
Perfect copies of guns can be made for cheap because steel, wood, nylon6 and fibreglass are cheap.
Guns still sell well.

Even industries where the majority of the cost isn't materials won't be greatly impacted because few people have a mill and lathe, and even fewer people have a 5axis cnc mill and 4axis cnc lathe.
(completely ignoring work area as well)


.
>tl;dr
If your product can't be produced entirely with hand tools and time or common materials, it doesn't matter.

>>56606187
Your dead wrong. People would not paying a dime for ANYTHING if one person could by it then give it to millions of people in a matter of minutes for free.

>>56606243
>People would not paying a dime for ANYTHING if one person could by it then give it to millions of people in a matter of minutes for free.
I was talking about the real world where you have to pay for materials...

If we are living in a magic world, then sure. But a magic world wouldn't need money because there would be infinite resources...

>>56606266
Yeah I understand it isn't realistic but it is the same principal.

There are people who put time, effort, and resources into building products, and people like you think it is ok to "copy" them and give them to others for free.

>>56606306
>and people like you think it is ok to "copy" them and give them to others for free.
I do not.
That would be a violation of the patent and would decrease the incentive for innovation/invention.


My point is in essence:
Anyone can mow a lawn.
Yet people pay people to mow their lawns.
Even people who own lawn mowers pay people to mow their lawns.

>>56605970
I'd prolly be a hipster about it and brag to everybody how I totally invented that shit, but I'm not a faggot so I'm not going to sue anybody over it.

If I didn't want you to copy my shit, I'd take efforts to preclude you from getting the blueprints (or whatever).

Coca Cola to this day has protected its recipe from outsiders for I don't even know how long. Why can't software companies and shit do the same? Because they're shitty at it.

File: consider the following.jpg (29KB, 293x263px) Image search: [Google]

29KB, 293x263px

An argument could be made that by removing the DRM of software, I am improving the product enough that it's not the same product anymore. It's only copyright infringement if I more or less cuntpaste your entire project. A very similar product is not the same product.

>>56606341
Yeah because that is something that takes effort, it's an actual service.

How much effort do you have to put into "copying" a movie or "sharing" a movie with someone else?

I'll answer that for you, next to 0. Also, regardless of who mows the lawn, the same amount of work is put into mowing the lawn each time.

>>56606364
it is impossible to create software that can't be cracked by software.

You wouldn't steal groceries from an old woman because she couldn't spend herself, would you?

>she shouldn't have put her product out there like that
>maybe she needs to protect her groceries better.

>>56605647
YOU DOWNLOADED MY GIRLFRIEND, YOU TOUCHED YOURSELF TO HER
YOU CAME ON YOUR SCREEN

My rights are violated!!!!


>>shit man we gotta put porn on piracy watch now

>>56606187
>Perfect copies of guns can be made for cheap because steel, wood, nylon6 and fibreglass are cheap.
>perfect

90% of copies people make are dogshit that doesn't work correctly

>>56606415
No, but I would duplicate them if I could.

>>56605647
Why wouldn't I?

>>56606384
>How much effort do you have to put into "copying" a movie or "sharing" a movie with someone else?
My argument is specifically about patents.
People pay for patented products because they can't or don't want to do it themselves.

>How much effort do you have to put into [producing a design with patented elements as a private individual]?
No less than the authorized producer/s of the product/s utilizing the patent.

>Also, regardless of who [produces the product/service], the same amount of work is put into mowing the [produces the product/service] each time.
Not true. It is far more effort for a private individual to do so.
They have to cover all of the cost and don't have bulk working on their side.


Either I think the product/service is worth the money or I don't. With a valid patent in place If I don't think it's worth the money then my only other options are to go without or to do it myself.
If I can do it myself for notably less money, then they just got out competed and their product is overpriced.


>>56606547
>can
The operations performed to make an specific design are the same no matter which entity performs them. The tolerances/design don't change.
You're thinking of MAUSER MAUSER MAUSER chinese pistols, not guns deliberately built/machined according to design specifications.

File: markings.jpg (60KB, 477x304px)

60KB, 477x304px

>>56606669
>MAUSER MAUSER MAUSER

Not sure if anyone else has said this, but here is my stance.

If it is something that I enjoy and am willing to support, such as a tv show i personally enjoy, i will pay for it.

If it is something i have a mild curiosity about, but don't feel like directly supporting, such as a movie i want to see but only mildly, I pirate it.

Would I download a car? Maybe, but then I would have to go through the process of insuring a downloaded car, and I bet that would probably be a pain in the ass.

Why stop at cars?

>>56605647
You do know that "You wouldn't download a car" is a parody of the original, right?

>>56606065
>all economies would crash if we could make copies of goods in the same way that we can copy digital media
And ? It would be the best thing to ever happen. Imagine you could just copy everything, hardware, car, sink, food, water. No one will ever need money anymore, no one will ever be poor, no one will ever die of hunger.

>>56606770
Because automated non-static manufacturing isn't a viable thing and can't produce viable end products. (atm)
The size of a car is about the limit of what a private individual can be expected to produce with cnc methods.

>>56606824
Kill yourself you commie faggot. Go masturbate to chairs somewhere else.
>No one will ever need money anymore, no one will ever be poor, no one will ever die of hunger.
Except the materials for production and food still have owners and property rights are legitimate.

>>56606856
>Except the materials for production and food still have owners and property rights are legitimate.
No it was a hypothetical scenario where we make copies >the same way that we can copy digital media
out of nothing

>>56606895
>No it was a hypothetical scenario where we make copies >the same way that we can copy digital media
>out of nothing
How do you copy electricity?
Also how do you make a mechanical computer that is powerful/fast enough to replace electric computers as we know them now?

>>56606910
>How do you copy electricity?
in this day and age you can basically be independant with your electricity.

File: 8325803285.jpg (394KB, 1920x1080px) Image search: [Google]

394KB, 1920x1080px

>>56605647
The whole damn system is f**ked!

>>56607061
But how do you use electricity to copy electricity files?

I only pirate because id be at a competitive disadvantage if I did not. I don't want these freeloading assholes to get a leg up on me in skills. I only pirate applications and books.

If anti piracy was strong enough to stop the competition then I'd happily stop.

>>56605647
>You wouldn't really download a car, would you?
I would still buy the important things like battery, tires, seatbelts, airbags, sensors, lights, etc.
But I would definitely download and manufacture the frame, body, electrics, engine, seating, etc.

File: 3287438204.jpg (163KB, 1677x649px) Image search: [Google]

163KB, 1677x649px

>>56606486
>you downloaded my daughter!
>imprison EVERYONE INVOLVED

>>56605647
Surely if printing cars ever becomes a thing, there will be open source cars licenced under GPL. So yeah you bet your ass i'm gonna download a car and rice the fuck out of it.

>>56607483
>printing
meme

>>56606139
This

Make something affordable and more convenient than piracy and you have a winner

>>56605647
Ofc I would but it doesn't work like that.

If I take your car then you no longer have a car, there is just one unless I build another.

If I give all my friends a copy of my home video then both I and my friends all have copies.

>You wouldn't really download a car, would you?
No, it'd take forever to download lossless, and I wouldn't trust a YIFY car.

>>56607561
>No, it'd take forever to download lossless
You don't understand how design schematics work, do you?

>>56607554
What if you bought an item that had a contract that said you could not make copies of and redistribute said item?

>>56607581
You don't understand how jokes work, do you?

>>56607581
You don't understand how humour works, do you?

>>56607600
>>56607602
No.

>>56607599
Then it wouldn't be a purchase, it would be a license.

>>56605647
I pirate while at the same time recognizing that piracy damages content creators.

As a result I buy VNs, have a crunchyroll subscription, but also am active on AB

>>56607680
>AB
?

Piracy is fine by me desu. The idea that copying a series of ones and zeros is stealing is a bunch of bullshit. Stealing is actually taking something. You're not actually taking anything when you download something. Sure, maybe piracy takes away POTENTIAL profits, but fining and arresting people because they MAYBE lost the company some money, because people MIGHT HAVE payed them if they didn't have free access, is bullshit.

In the end I'm a literal communist, and think free access to information and art should be the norm.

>>56605647
If I could download a car I would.

>>56607638
Isn't it a matter of personal freedom for businesses to stipulation conditions of their license?

It would seem like people would be against freedom if they were to tell businesses they couldn't do this.

>>56607756
>Isn't it a matter of personal freedom for businesses to stipulation conditions of their license?
Yes.

>It would seem like people would be against freedom if they were to tell businesses they couldn't do this.
>couldn't
Licenses are shit. People (read: individuals) hate licenses.
They think businesses shouldn't do licenses for individuals.

>>56605842
Tesla cars are open source and some Chinese manufacturers actually make tesla-style cars. People are already using freely available blueprints.

My views on this have changed as I've grown older. I hate content creators, but I also hate pirates as well.

I have grown to like Intellectual Property as a concept. I know that in theory you can make copies of anything that is digital, but in practice I feel like much of the content that we enjoy is created on the premise that you'll pay for it instead of getting a perfect copy of it for free with no restrictions through technical means, and I don't think that such a premise is inherently bad.

The problem I have is that most content creators are greedy as fuck and don't respect their customers at all, and piracy makes things worse, not better. For example, when HBO releases Game of Thrones, you either need a cable subscription and an HBO subscription, or you pirate it. The fact that HBO does this is consumer-hostile on its face. But piracy makes things worse because suddenly, this consumer-hostile media has more mind-share than it deserves.

Do you honestly think that by pirating Game of Thrones that HBO is suddenly going to wake up and do a Netflix-style digital release of an entire season at once for a reasonable price? They see pirates as potential customers, and because so many people are pirating the show, they have the leverage over your mind. They're hoping that some pirates might actually pay for HBO and a cable subscription for the convenience of seeing it hassle-free as it comes out. Or, said pirates might tell their friends, and their friends might get HBO because they can't into computer. And every single one of those "conversions" is 100% undeserved.

Continued in another post...

>>56607821
Is there any piece of software in existence that doesn't rely on licenses?

>>56606669
No, the effort is dramatically less for pirates than companies/creators. When you copy software, you don't literally recode the whole thing yourself before releasing it to the internet;you just take what was made, press ctrl+c ctrl+v and make or use a crack if there's DRM. That's significantly easier than building Photoshop.

Likewise, a real-life equivalent wouldn't have you using hand tools to make a phone but let you buy a phone and magically clone it in minutes before sending it to a common space where anyone can get their own copy for free afterwards. This deincentivizes consumers from buying anything and producers from making and selling anything. Such a development would destroy every economy on the planet.

>>56607850
DOOM

>>56607718
AnimeBytes, a private tracker for anime, manga and VNs.

File: tumblr_nnquz2lNiE1qbk3xso1_500.jpg (168KB, 429x287px) Image search: [Google]

168KB, 429x287px

>>56607756
>Implying businesses have rights.

>>56607852
Reread: >>56606669
>My argument is specifically about patents.
Literally the first non-greentext line...


.
>magically clone it
>Such a development would destroy every economy on the planet.
Good thing we live in the real world...
Like my premise assumes because I was a moran and misread >>56606065

>>56605794
>Copyright longer than 20 years is bullshit.
This, we need copyright to go back to how it was originally. No work should still be copyrighted years after the death of it's creator.

>>56607965
>>56607951
Excuse me anons, those don't appear to be valid posts.

>>56607841

...continued.

If, instead of piracy, people had the fucking self-control to simply....not watch Game of Thrones because it was so fucking inconvenient without paying for cable, Game of Thrones would be nowhere near as popular as it is now. And maybe HBO might cancel it. Or maybe HBO might realize that they're living in the past and try being more cord-cutter friendly in a bit to make their content more popular.

But nope. People are just going to pirate it. And HBO knows they have leverage over people with their content, so they will continue to act like 20th century shitbags. They have you idiots by the balls. Please, continue to lap up their content! That's exactly what they're hoping you do. Oink oink!

I haven't pirated anything in years. But I also have the self control to say "If you're not going to give me this content on terms acceptable to me, I will not consume it". Sadly, self-control is something most pirates seem to lack.

>>56605647
Copyright is cancer.

>>56605647
i don't wanna take anyone's car, but i'd download a copy, sure

>>56607958
>No work should still be copyrighted years after the death of it's creator.
20 years from publication permits post-humous copyright.

File: download_a_car.jpg (175KB, 602x748px) Image search: [Google]

175KB, 602x748px

>>56605647
You better fucking believe I would.

>>56605647
Don't give a shit. Of course I will pirate something if I can, cucks will support the companies anyways.

>>56605647
>What is /g/'s stance on piracy?
Mostly the fault of the content producer for not understanding the value of their content.

>You wouldn't really download a car, would you?
Sure. I've been looking for an excuse to buy non-meme cnc.

>>56605647
▶ 10:00:01
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBH4g_ua5es

>>56605715
>reductio ad absurdum
I like this meme.

>2055
>commercial 3d printers are now able to print out metal parts and circuitry
>not downloading the latest porsche

fucking plebians

Piracy is only mean of defense against jacking up prices of software even higher.

File: 6ae.jpg (25KB, 680x680px) Image search: [Google]

25KB, 680x680px

Let's examine game theory and rational rivals. If they could force you to max out on your credit cards and pay over $10 000 for a song/movie/game/book, they would.

If there was a way I could get a song/movie/game/book for 0$, I would. And I can.

So don't fucking consumer-shame me about it.

Knowledge and information are free and you can support your model with optional 'paid' badges, and if you offer a good service - I will support you.

Examples:

>Dota 2 has cosmetic items - some people like their heroes to look interesting, some don't give a fuck; the game is free to play for everyone.

>Reddit has Reddit gold. Free to use but some people want to support it and purchase some.

>4chan pass: I like 4chan, I shitpost a lot and I support it - the price is very reasonable.

>10 minute mail - Doing God's work so I donated.

>Proton mail - I like these guys too, so I donated.

>>56605647
I would 100% download a car are you kidding me?

File: BITCH.jpg (15KB, 480x360px)

15KB, 480x360px

>>56605647
I would if I could, BITCH

>>56610952
>porsche
>not downloading a tank

>>56605647
My 3d printer is ready but nobody's seeding.

>>56606243
>Your dead wrong. People would not paying a dime for ANYTHING if one person could by it then give it to millions of people in a matter of minutes for free.

People would and do. Shit, wikipedia receives millions of dollars in donations every year.

Piracy is wrong, but anyone comparing it to theft is an idiot who does nothing but distract people from actually discussing the moral and economic factors involved.

>>56605715
Transfering combinations of molecules into a lump of cells shouldn't be illegal.
Even if it is to kill a person with a lethal injection. Prove me wrong.
Protip:
>you can't

>>56606065
Nah, it would be the same as the economy of air. Non-existant (except for that china shit).

>>56605647
>You wouldn't really download a car, would you?
But I would, mr. NSA Agent Jewish Shill.

>>56605736
this

>>56607841
>I hate content creators
I understand what you mean but this is a really dumb way of putting it. Also, is the company that takes a risk and finance's someone's artistic vision not entitled to profits from it? Reminder that most movies/TV shows barely break even and actors, directors, writers, cinematographers, crew members and production staff are not cheap.

>>56611707
>entitled to profits
No. (did you mean entitled to the profits?)

>Reminder that most movies/TV shows barely break even and actors, directors, writers, cinematographers, crew members and production staff are not cheap.
Sounds like a shit business model to me.

>>56611811
Do you have a suggestion for a better business model? And how should a film or TV show be financed?

>>56611955
>Do you have a suggestion for a better business model?
Cartoons.
You immediately get rid of the majority of the cost by axing actors and replacing them with voice actors.

>>56611811
Thats because (((somebody))) else takes all that money.

>>56606065
Forget the economy. If we could copy atoms the same way we copy bits, we would be gods.

>>56607998
>Sadly, self-control is something most pirates seem to lack.

The old "this game looks like shit I'll pirate it just to see if I like it yeah I played it for 60 hours and finished it but it was fucking garbage why would I pay for something I've already finished anyway".

I have a Netflix subscription, and there is more content on there than I could possibly watch. There are countless free options online that aren't piracy as well. Its not like we are hurting for choice.

I'm not saying I never pirate, but its always a last resort, and even then its such a pain in the ass to track down that 1 other guy that has a copy of <obscure 50s movie> I'd rather be paying.

> things broadcasted may be recorded for personal use
> everything has at one point been broadcasted
> hyperreality principle precludes piracy being a crime

media jews: baudrillard the fuck out