I hope you Java developers like being unemployed. Your time

There aren't any Java devs on right now, the sun is barely up in India. Try posting again in a few hours

Isn't C# just as shitty as java, but backed by microsoft and its .net tampons?

>>55708809
It's an open language, even die hard GNUtards embrace it.

Java has been in enterprise software longer than C#, it will always be relevant, no matter how you C# fanboys want it to go away.

>>55708322
I was studying cs at Ohio state a couple years ago, the professors used Java for the classes and did a bunch of other odd practices, had their own tools for eclipse that they had everyone install for the class. One of them said they were just trying to make these practices catch on in the industry when students graduated. They're fighting back, believe me.

>>55708878

Java is also deployed to a far greater range of hardware. You can write embedded firmware and Enterprise bullshit with the very same language.

(not that that means much, actually, given the fact that 90% of programming is domain knowledge, including relevant libraries that are, themselves, vastly more complex than the language itself, but whatevs...)

what's a good C# environment? MS took over mono develop, and I can't install that without a million useless dependencies anymore.

>>55708966
The community edition of visual studio is free and functional. If you're not on windows, I've had luck with Xamarin on OS X. On Linux I've only worked with C++ and CodeLight is fantastic for that, I dunno if it is the same for C# off the top of my head but worth a look.

>>55708322
Can't we all just get along?

>>55708809
> proper generics
> structs
> type inference
> async/await
> dynamic
> delegates
> LINQ
> properties
> extension methods
> proper namespaces
> operator overloading
> unsigned numeric types
> null conditional operator
> primary constructors
> expression bodied functions

C# started off as a shitty Java clone but Microsoft has improved it a ton while Sun and Oracle have just let it languish. The soon to be released C# 7 is going to add tuple syntax, pattern matching and a more functional record system as well.

.NET also has much nicer APIs and doesn't have shit like JEE and Spring.

>>55709038
yeah, but considering C# is missing the entirety of Apache (Hadoop, MapReduce, etc.) and lacks a decent community in general, you're really up shit creek.

The JVM is a fantastic platform. People tolerate the language because C# isn't orders of magnitude superior. Using Clojure, Scala, etc. on the JVM gives you an even better language than C# but with the superior platform.

>>55708966
If you really want an IDE Visual Studio or Project Rider from Jetbrains are the best available. Omnisharp is so good now though that I just use it with Vim. Visual Studio Code seems to be decent as well.

>>55709038

C# is great because Microsoft poached all the best people from Borland back in the day. As I recall, they poached them to work on the DEC Alpha port of Windows. After that died, they made their way onto the Visual Studio team and created C#.

Swift and C# are going to crush these Oracle loving faggots.

>>55709038
> > extension methods

These bother me. I get how they can be extremely useful syntactic sugar, but it seems like they can also be extremely confusing and damaging to long-term code maintainability. Sort of like 'auto' variable declaration in C++...

>>55709067
Apache is where projects go to die.

File: pajeet.jpg (21KB, 325x326px)

21KB, 325x326px

ITT: Pajeet vs Pajeet

>>55709099
...well, this mentality explains perfectly why C# isn't beating Java.

>>55709097
>but it seems like they can also be extremely confusing

They have limited scope and they must be explicitly imported. It's pretty hard to be confused by them and every IDE or Omnisharp supported editor can find the definition.

>>55709097
Auto is incredible for maintenance. You've either been writing shitty code or working with shitty code.

>>55709116
C# isn't beating Java because it hasn't been cross platform. That's changing now.

Microsoft is now dumping tons of money into cross platform C# while Oracle is openly distributing Java with malware, has laid off most of the Java team and is suing everyone they possibly can.

>>55709180
Oracle isn't the only source of Java.

This exposes the fundamental problem of C# -- things only get done if Microsoft does it. There is next to no external community or process except for Microsoft. Java has several groups stewarding the language and core frameworks outside of Oracle.

Surprisingly enough, Microsoft is generally more distrusted than Oracle, despite recent history. Microsoft has a nasty habit of embracing other technologies to lure developers in, and then suddenly dropping support to try and push their shotty products.

Only a fool would trust Microsoft.

>>55709230
> Java has several groups stewarding the language and core frameworks

Java basically has the JEE and Spring communities both of which are complete shit. Everything else is negligible.

Google is going to transition Android away from Java as well. The writing is on the wall.

>>55709279
>Java basically has the JEE and Spring communities both of which are complete shit. Everything else is negligible.
JEE and Spring, regardless of your opinion of them, are major pieces of software. Your judgement of their technical worth is irrelevant to their actual consequence.

>Google is going to transition Android away from Java as well. The writing is on the wall.
>citation needed
And even if this happened, organizations have invested literally __billions__ of dollars into the JVM. If you think that is going to just disappear anytime soon, you're just wrong.

File: vomit.gif (3MB, 300x225px)

3MB, 300x225px

>>55709335
>Spring

>>55709335
It's not going to disappear but people are going to use better languages for new development. Java is basically the new Cobol. Only Cobol was a better and much faster language.

File: 1468468762424.gif (2MB, 326x202px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 326x202px

>>55709349
> just use Spring Boot, a framework for a framework, to hide the enormous amount of unnecessary complexity and runtime annotation processing
> also ignore the 1200 line stack traces that don't include anything remotely related to your own code

>>55709356
>Java is basically the new Cobol

Albeit with the added advantage of reusability -- hence the unwillingness to completely move away from Java.

>but people are going to use better languages for new development
In some organizations, yes. But they sure as hell are not going to be using C# in mass.

>>55709349
Yeah, Spring does kind of suck. But it's used in a lot of organizations where architects have to justify to a bunch of business types that don't know shit about what they're doing how a technical decision impacts the business' bottom line. These places will use Spring until they can't use it anymore.

>>55709133
>Auto is incredible for maintenance

Sorry, how's that?

> You've either been writing shitty code or working with shitty code.

Or maybe we have different SUBJECTIVE opinions, huh?

I hate Java so much.

>>55710944
I hate the JVM so much. Closure and Scala should be ported to C++11, then I would use them. Such a shame.

>>55709073
good luck developing on your comfy cafe netbook. omnisharp is 64bit only.

If C# are open, why nobody other than Microsoft extends it ?

File: miguel-620x392.jpg (37KB, 620x392px) Image search: [Google]

37KB, 620x392px

THEY FINALLY HIRED ME, NO MORE PRETENDING TO GIVE A SHIT ABOUT .NET

File: 1465001758762.gif (2MB, 331x197px)

2MB, 331x197px

>>55708363

File: 1468984424776.jpg (71KB, 559x598px)

71KB, 559x598px

>>55709097
>they can also be extremely confusing and damaging to long-term code maintainability.
>Sort of like 'auto' variable declaration in C++...
Fuck off you ignorant twat.

https://herbsutter.com/2013/08/12/gotw-94-solution-aaa-style-almost-always-auto/

>>55708363
underrated post

>>55708363
underrated

when will mono / CLR on non-windows systems be good?

>>55713005
>>55713021
Ironic post

>>55708322
I actually enjoy using .NET Core and VS Code on Linux.
Visual Studio and Windows is not my cup of tea so this move to an MIT licensed platform is really cool.
Visual Studio debugging is very cool though.

>>55709033
I hear you, friendo.

>>55713005
Designated Java streets,
for real though is C the best language hands down? Disregarding the fact that Bjarne Struttsoup says it's obsolete.

>>55708322
ew Microsoft '''only''', my job makes software in C and Assembly and we compile for Windows GNU and Mac OS X, much more flexible and not a shitty OOP

File: 1460825137534.jpg (49KB, 630x402px) Image search: [Google]

49KB, 630x402px

>>55708322
C# is for object oriented street shitters.
F# is for functional master race.

>>55711012
Because open source c# was officially released last month.

>>55709230
>things only get done if Microsoft does it. There is next to no external community or process except for Microsoft. Java has several groups stewarding the language and core frameworks outside of Oracle.

Good. That's why C# has actually evolved and introduces god-tier features with every release (see >>55709038) while Java is always playing catch-up. Design by committee doesn't work in technology.

I am a C# code monkey with 1 year of job experience, but sometimes I fear Microsoft will fuck the entire platform up and make some dumb moves, like they did with other things recently.

>>55708839
https://www.fsf.org/news/dont-depend-on-mono

>>55714031
C# was open probably since 2001 (please refer to ECMA or ISO spec, can't remember), there's other creation from mono and dotgnu(dead) but all of them playing catch-up with microsoft.

Nobody other than Microsoft leading C# invention.
All features are decided by Microsoft and it's up to Microsoft to implement it.
So yeah, for now only Microsoft have the power to decide the future of C#.

>>55714239
Too much feature with redundant function doesn't seem a good idea senpai.

>>55714377
>too much feature
ahahahahaha. Whatever helps you sleep better at night.

>>55714391
>event vs delegate vs lambda expression
All doing the same thing but technically different
>LINQ vs lambda expression
Seriously, for what reason you need a slow query language vs directly compiled lambda expression.

I'm just going to throw my two cents in here:

C#'s async/await is GOAT.
Does Java have a substitute for that?

>>55708909
>embedded firmware
>java

Embedded in the VM?

>>55709038
structs were a mistake

remove structs

death to all structs

>>55714461
http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/embedded/overview/index.html

>>55714461
Java Embedded require royalties thus not many know it exists.

>>55714480
>>55714502
>Oracle Java Embedded: Unlocking the Value of the Internet of Things with Intelligence on Devices


Stopped reading right there. Buzzword overload.

>>55714429
Yes, but no special keywords.
Instead use lambda expression.

CompletableFuture<String> receiver  
            = CompletableFuture.supplyAsync(this::findReceiver);

receiver.thenApplyAsync(this::sendMsg); 

>>55714520
Well, the point is that it exists. There even exist JVM implementations in hardware.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java_processor

There also exist non-Oracle embedded Java implementations and SDKs

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embedded_Java

>>55714461
how fucking new are you

>>55714473
Fucking retard. They are one of the reasons C#'s collections work literally magnitudes faster than Java's. Java is only fine for number crunching.

>>55708909
.net embedded is a thing.

should I learn C#.NET or PHP

>>55714959
Learn C

>>55708363
DELTE DIS

>>55714309
Except, you know, Microsoft has made .NET core open source and every indication suggests that they're moving to make it a truly open and cross platform standard.

Stallman's concerns were legitimate 7 years ago, I'd be interested to hear if his position has changed on the topic.

>>55714959
see >>55708909
> 90% of programming is domain knowledge
start by deciding what is it you're trying to archive (web, embedded, games, big data etc) and then find the best language, framework or platform that allows you to do that

>>55708809
C# is pretty good, actually.

>>55708322
oh yes c++ bloat and verbosity with none of the performance, tied to microshit .net
who wouldn't want this?!

>>55715456
No -- you look at it. Look at it, and weep.

>>55708322
Err, if you can write Java, you can write C#.

>>55714239
C# is a nice language -- no one is denying that. Nice straw man.

The problem is that the .NET ecosystem is not as strong as Java's, and that situation won't change anytime soon. Time and time again, organizations choose to use a shittier language so that they can leverage an ecosystem. Right now, it's dumb to bet on Microsoft. It's not clear where they want the company to be in ten years, and since most .NET development comes only from Microsoft, this makes the product a riskier investment. No business wants to redevelop an existing Java application in C# if there's a risk Microsoft won't be supporting .NET for the next twenty years. No organization wants to develop new applications on a system where they can't reuse old components. Traditionally, Microsoft only open sources technologies before they die. Java could carry on with or without Oracle. This doesn't mean Java is going to be the language of choice for hobbyists and academics, but this **does** mean Java will continue to be used for a long time in industry.

It's pretty obvious that you've never held any position of consequence in a large company. You would be laughed out of a meeting if you recommended moving from Java to C#. It makes absolutely no business sense. If you're a company that's already invested in .NET, that's one thing. But don't even pretend it makes sense for a company to move from Java.

(And if you are a hobbyist or an academic, there are far better languages than C# that you could be using.)

>>55718119
>>55709356
unfortunately this

t. Pajeet

If you can write Java, you can write C#. It's just different libraries and the braces go in a different place.

>>55718119
>Time and time again, organizations choose to use a shittier language so that they can leverage an ecosystem.
So why aren't you working writing JavaScript?

>>55717873
>>55718608
Yeah basically. I mean both languages have their own quirks but it requires little effort to understand both languages if you already know one.

>>55718608
>braces go in a different place
What?

>>55718631
Because there is no quality ecosystem here. Best bet is there are shitty scripts for widgets that if you are lucky can combine without conflicts and make multiple instances of.

Take for example rich text editor widgets: About half of them can only be used once per page.

>>55718883
so use another half? problem solved.

>>55708878
So are COBOL are Fortran, but look at how many developers there are for those now.

>>55718119
>is not as strong as Java's

As someone that writes Scala everyday, Java developers typically think way too highly of the Java "ecosystem." 99.9% of it is complete garbage that has either huge JEE or Spring dependencies.

>>55709180
A decent chunk of Java applications are REST apps written on Windows. It has nothing to do with platform and everything to do with C# lacking depth in libraries.

>>55715519
The main concern was the language being under patents of Microsoft.

If there weren't patents, or the patents were maintained by a trustworthy company that isn't an enemy of free software, there wouldn't have as much of a problem.

This doesn't change by the fact that it's open source, see the Android Oracle case.

>>55719499
Hol' up. So you're telling me.
That. *Smacks lips*
That when you have a bunch of stupid ass projects from github show up on maven, that a decent percentage are stupid projects!?

That confirms it. I'm a C Shart.

>>55714239
> Design by committee doesn't work in technology.
> what is Haskell

>>55709038
When will I be able to write list.Select(_.ToString()) instead of Select(x => x.ToString())?

>>55719907
ASP.NET is objectively better than any Java framework. The same goes for Entity Framework and Json.NET.

>>55721953
What an improvement it would be.

>>55719961
>That when you have a bunch of stupid ass projects from github show up on maven

The big Java projects from Apache, Redhat, Oracle and Spring are also all shit though. In all likelihood, random Java Github projects are probably higher quality than most of the popular Java libraries.

>>55708809
C# is flawless

>>55721106
>meme language nobody uses
>uses it as an example

>>55714473
>structs were a mistake
you know how i know you write shitty software?

>>55715519
it still doesn't need to be part of the debian core, which is what the article was concerning

>>55713474
>mutabiltiy
>OOP
>side effects
>F#
>functional
CS major pls

>>55718119
>It's pretty obvious that you've never held any position of consequence in a large company
I'm sure you're a big fish, guy that posts on 4chan. What's your title? CEO? CTO?

I work in a multinational consulting company as a .NET developer. Yes, we use .NET/C# in *lots* of projects, and for big companies, with pretty good results and happy clients. This will only grow with .NET Core and new improvements to C# while Java continues its stagnation and COBOL-like status. If I were religious I'd be thanking God every day for letting me earn money working with C# instead of Java (the language itself, nothing against other JVM languages). And I suspect that you, the armchair CTO that suggests .NET is not used significantly in the enterprise, are the one with absolutely no idea of what you're talking about.

>>55708809
C# is shit

>>55708809
if you ever go qt you'll never go back to such abominations of frameworks called java or c#.

.net core is the future

prove me wrong

>>55722264
>Work in a company that use C#
>HURR C# is the future

Figures.

>>55722797
I work at a company that uses several technologies, depending on the needs of the client. Do you even know what a consulting company is, retard?

>>55709279
I really hope so if I end up working there.

>>55723131
Institutions designed to exchange money for blame on a doomed project?

>.NET core
>modular .NET that bundles an entire runtime environment with your executable, compiles to native code, and can be ran on every platform worth mentioning and then some

It's over. Microsoft has perfected application development.

>>55718119
Funny enough the company I work for made a decision to write for Windows when it first came out and they praise that decision everyday. We develop in C# and slowly have been removing legacy c++ code. Good majority of our customers are extremely happy with us.

>>55708809
C# is actually comfy as fuck, meanwhile java is a clusterfuck

>>55723131
Retard, where did I say your company only uses C#?