Fuck it I've spent 4 months getting memed while trying to

>>55640630
Don't fall for the python2.7 meme. It has slightly more support due to having been around longer, but python3.5 has so many useful additions to python2.7 with many modules re-implemented in C for a speed boost. Type-hinting helps for those who prefer static typing

>>55640630
I suggest you start learning the fucking language now

>>55640658
this. Many of the projects I'm working on are forced to use 2.7 because the higher ups are afraid of backwards compatibility problems but fail to understand that forward compatibility is going to be a much bigger issue.

>>55640630
Get some balls and stop asking people to run your life

>>55640630
Ruby, Python
Java, C#, C
pick one from each

>>55640764
Python + C is clearly the best combination

>>55640630
Me too :D

Go for it. I took the decision three months ago, it is real fun. First language too. Now I am learning how to use Curses, a way to display programs in a CLI in a more attractive way.

I plan to learn C once I feel really confident about my skills.

>>55640630
it's good. just disregard /g/, it's the most cancerous board on 4chan

Python is a great language to start on because it allows you to learn the fundamentals of programming and actually make things without getting bogged down in language specific idiosyncrasies.

There's good support across a wide variety of topics and platforms whether it's web, data, games, modeling, etc.

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>>55640630
4 months ?
kys faggot

start learning that shit already and stop asking for excuses you lazy fat slob.

>>55640658
This. So much this. Don't waste time on 2.7. Start on 3.x and never look back.

Dude it takes like a day to learn the basics. Get your fucking shit together and do something productive, what is wrong with you!??

>>55640630
Wtf dude just learn C

>>55640924
>>55640658
>>55640692

these guys are memeing you btw.

>>55640964
literally kys

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>>55640964

once you've learned one you've pretty much learned them all
not even kidding
you should've just learned the easiest one to begin with

>>55640964
>>55640924
>>55640658
>>55640692

Pick a python, any python. As long we you're learning python.

>>55641087
OP should be careful about this decision and really think about it before he commits.

>>55641098
this is a joke op dont waste any more time picking a language

>>55640630
Start with Python and then you can learn a language like C.

>>55640630
You fell for the Python meme OP.

I'm sorry.

>>55640658
>with many modules re-implemented in C for a speed boost

And yet Python 3 is slower in almost every benchmark.

>>55641208
didn't ask for your fucking opinion

>>55641087
This!

>>55641057
This is bullshit. Try telling as JS developer that

>>55641208
That's because a lot of Python's performance problems stem from its horrible object model and type system.

Python's speed defects are symptoms of its shitty linguistic features.

For real though, Python3 is a meme. Use it only if you don't mind abandoning all the py3 specific shit you've gotten used to when a library you need inevitably doesn't work.

>>55641241
>latest version of a language is a meme

The fact that there are so many retards spouting this is evidence that the entire language is a meme.

>>55641263
Yeah, they fucked up pretty bad

>>55641263
>>55641241
both of you are a meme. Only /g/ advocates python2

Just pick language and stick with it. I was like you at one point. Already new a little c++ but kept touching new stuff getting no where.
Ended up just sticking with c++.

>>55641098
>>55641128

Really, don't. Python is syntactically pretty similar to languages like Java or C(#,++,etc.), with the advantage of being interpreted and still highly desirable in the marketplace. Enforces decent programming practices + 'pythonicity' better than most other interpreted languages (and isn't a total shitshow like perl* or PHP). Best place to start programming

>>55641241
This.
>python developers spend a lot of time and energy pushing subprocess over os.popen
>still support it on 3 even though it is depreciated on 2

What the fuck? Fucking freetards.

>>55641306
end your life

>>55641241
This. Almost nobody is using Python 3 in production and none of the alternative implementations support Python 3. Python will probably die with version 2.

>>55641298
> Best place to start programming

Python has created an entire generation of programmers who think that Python is actually good.

That's even worse than what television did.

>>55640630
>get memed on 4chan
>pick language
>ask memers on 4chan for their opinions
>going to get memed again
Why do you post here?

>>55640630
SICP

>>55641339
>Almost nobody is using Python 3 in production
Where is this meme coming from? We use it in my workplace and it at least eliminates all those unicodedecodeerror's

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>>55640630
Has any language ever jumped the shark as badly as Python did when they broke backwards compatibility with 3? What the fuck were they thinking?

>waiting 4 months to start

Jesus dude, just start already. The first language is always the hardest because you have to learn the syntax and the logic. Once you get that, learning other languages becomes significantly easier.

>>55640630
If you want something easy to grasp: C# or Java
If you want to be a memelord: PHP or Python
If you want to make money: C++

>>55641370
>What the fuck were they thinking?
They wanted it to be the most popular programming language and it succeeded

>>55641339
retard

>>55641370
this

I can't take any language community seriously that would fuck up as bad as Python did. It shows the lack of professionalism and forward thinking present in virtually all technical decisions made by the Python community.

>>55641390
KEK

>>55641364
Did it cover any useful language?

>>55641388
>memelord

what does that even mean? I swear, this place is where the real meaning of words comes to die.

>>55641414
nice samefag

>>55641424
>implying language choice is what matters
Stay curry my friend

>>55641442
So you're saying it didn't?

>>55641442
>still caring about currying
huge functional programming meme m8

>>55641438
python is popular because retards like this anon use it

>>55641388
It's literally the opposite though.

>>55641365
It's because none of the major companies using Python use Python 3 (Google, Mozilla, Instagram, Dropbox, Nasa, Disqus, Quora etc.) and none of them have any plans of migrating to it. Instead most of them are slowly migrating their Python services to other languages.

It doesn't help that almost everyone now realizes that dynamic typing is terrible.

What else is there besides Python for a general purpose scripting language?

I can't see Python dieing just because nothing else is as nice to make scripts in.

Another decade and Py3 will probably be the standard

>>55641462
nice meme

>>55641452
If you think that language choice matters for an introductory textbook, you will always be pajeet. That tells you nothing about the quality of the book. If you had actually read the book, you would realize this. Instead, you shovel shit with your hands in curryland.

>>55641474
>dropbox

lel doesn't the creator of python work there?

>>55641482
>What else is there besides Python for a general purpose scripting language?

There's no need for a scripting language. Just use your preferred statically typed language.

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>>55641489
lol

>>55641482
Lisp or Perl.

>>55640764
i've finally settled on C# and .Net

>>55641482
Ruby

>>55641482
> general purpose scripting language

Why are people afraid of using special-purpose languages? Python tries to be everything and fails at all of it. If you want to interact with C, then Lua and Scheme work better. If you need to glue together programs, then shell works better.

This mentality is present in every aspect of the language. It has all the drawbacks of OO and dynamic typing, but none of the benefits of either.

>>55641521

Will Perl ever make a comeback?

>>55641503
Yes. They don't really give a shit about Guido's opinion on Python 3 though.

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>>55641509
Like?
C++ : people say it's great because OOP
C : ??
Java: also great???

>>55641538
Shell does not work better. It's a fucking mess. A simple example would be downloading some csv files, parsing/cleaning the data, storing them into a sqlite db, then generating some HTML.

What would that look like in bash?

>>55640630
C
Python

that's it

anything else is just icing on the cake to know

>>55641503
The creator of Python is why Python is so fucked today. Fuck that dude.

Holy fuck 4 months? You'd think in that 4 months you would have realized that language doesn't matter at all. Just learn one. Once you learn the concepts you pick up any language in a weekend. And you can learn those concepts from pretty much any language

>>55640630
>4 months
You could have learned Python 4 times over in that amount of time.

>>55641579
I love you

>>55641547
Any statically typed language will do. You'd be hard pressed to find one that is worse than Python, Ruby or PHP.

>>55640630
Python 3.4.4

>>55641578
>downloading cvs
wget

>parsing/cleaning the data
awk

>storing them into a sqlite db
sqlite

>generating some HTML
sqlite can output HTML

This was a trivial example, come on.

>>55641624
>not 3.5.2 for type hinting
kys

>>55641637
s/cvs/csv/

>>55641637
Why would you write 4 separate scripts that don't all use the same syntax, when you can do it with fewer lines in a single python file that will probably also run faster?

Just start with whatever is most relevant to what you want to do, or if you really don't know, python. Honestly there's no "bad" language to start with, you just want to make sure it's decently popular so there are enough resources out there and people you can ask help from if you get stuck. Also make sure it's not a joke language like brainfuck or that one language that's all emojis. If you're serious about being a good programmer you're going to wind up learning various languages that were made for different paradigms and use cases. Anyone who tells you "Language X is bad, don't start with that or your programming ability will be fucked forever" doesn't know what they're talking about and is either parroting opinion pieces that focus on one or two shitty aspects of that language (spoiler alert: every language has something shitty about it) or hating on it because that language is stereotypically used by some group they don't like. The only thing that's gonna make you a shitty programmer is limiting your skillset because someone else told you to.

>>55641789
It would all be one script.

And I seriously doubt it would be fewer lines or run significantly faster.

>>55641816
Depends on how involved the text processing needs to be, but it's a moot point anyway because python's just as fast to write and easier to maintain and reuse. Shell scripting is fine for simple, one-off tasks that only require a few lines of code, but if you're going to write a 50 line script controlling how a bunch of components interact with one another, there's literally no reason to use it over python.

>>55642048
Except that Python solution usually relies on libraries that may or may not break, whereas most CLI tools are relatively constant.

>easier to maintain and reuse
apparently not considering the breaking changes between 2 and 3.

And seriously, you're trying to say that Python is better at text processing than the Unix shell? That's what it's *for*.

>>55642112
You also shouldn't install libraries into the system python path as other things may depend on particular library versions. So you need to start fucking around with virtualenv and bundling a Python interpreter.

It's just one disaster after another when using Python.

>>55641482
Lua

>>55641592
but Python 4 isn't out yet

>>55642151
Ah, I hadn't heard of this.

Another thing to add to my hatred of Python. Thank you anon.

>>55642216
Python and Ruby packaging is a huge mess.

>>55642151
nah ignore this guy, i've never literally once had a problem with conflicting library dependencies

>>55642272
>I've never had the problem so it doesn't exist

>>55642300
name one single library

>>55642272
Clearly your anecdotal evidence is worth more than the opinion of almost the entire Python community! virtualenv was just made for fun and most Python/Django books cover it just to mislead people.

>>55642306
wasn't the anon. just pointing out your flawed reasoning.

>>55642311
name one single library

>>55642325
SQLAlchemy has broken backwards compatibility several times. Most third party libraries break backwards compatibility at some point. How is this even up for debate?

>>55640630
if you are making a personal home page let me suggest PHP

>>55642112
>Except that Python solution usually relies on libraries that may or may not break, whereas most CLI tools are relatively constant.
Yeah, at the expense of performance and functionality. I didn't say bash is worthless

>apparently not considering the breaking changes between 2 and 3.
I'm talking about a module with less than 100 lines of code using the standard library

>And seriously, you're trying to say that Python is better at text processing than the Unix shell? That's what it's *for*.
It is. If you need to parse a text file, construct a table of metadata, and import it into a database, what to do think is faster, pushing everything into a hashmap and exporting that inside the program, or piping the output of an awk script to a new csv before running a second script?

>>55642356
>PHP

This. All of these dynamically typed imperative languages are crap so you might as well go with the most popular one and the one with the simplest deployment. PHP with HHVM is also much faster than Python and Ruby.

>>55641789
You write a wrapper so they do use the same syntax retard

guys guys guys guys guys
>python is a meme lol
>python is a meme is a meme lol
>memes lol
>haha I can meme
>cuck
>cuck
>meme
>hahahahahshdfhasdfhfhafdhfd
>2.7
>3.5
>meme

>>55642355
so the argument is for when you dont want to update any of your libraries / intentionally install deprecated libraries but you still want to install modern libraries? there are no dependency issues on any recent build of sqlalchemy

but ok i guess you got me there dipshit

>>55642389
>metamemes
kys

>>55642384
>personal webpage
>full-fledged HHVM setup
You are fucking retarded if you think setting up HHVM is easier than just deploying a simple flask + ninja2 setup.

Also, since you brought up type theory, Python is at least strongly typed.

>>55641596
Thank you

I'm not posting butte tho

>>55642400
If I have a library/application that uses SQLAlchemy 1.0 and install one that uses SQLAlchemy 1.1 there's a good chance that my first application is now broken. On top of that, Python is a dynamically typed piece of shit so I won't find out unless it happens to break at runtime. In some cases, it won't even break at runtime since Python libraries have no knowledge of versioning and it will just silently give erroneous data.

virtualenv is suggested by basically every respectable Python developer/book/guide so I'm not sure why you're pretending this isn't a huge problem. No major company deploys anything without virtualenv or an entirely separate VM layer.

>>55642380
>at the expense of performance and functionality

I think the functionality argument is tough to make. If you start pushing python's functionality, you usually are better off writing in a different language for a cleaner solution. I'm also not convinced that Python significantly curb stomps a shell script in speed.

>less than 100 LoC
Then Bash would probably be smaller and this would be a non-issue

>what do you think is faster
If I'm this concerned about speed, I'm not going to be using Python anyway.

>>55642428
HHVM is trivial to install and composer is far better than pip, easy_install and wheels.

>>55642514
>trivial
Compiling HHVM on OS X or Windows is flaky, at best, and support is fairly limited.

>>55642428
Deploying Flask is far worse since the included webserver is a slow insecure joke. You have to use a combination of uwsgi/gunicorn and nginx to get anything approaching reliable.

>>55642504
>I think the functionality argument is tough to make. If you start pushing python's functionality, you usually are better off writing in a different language for a cleaner solution. I'm also not convinced that Python significantly curb stomps a shell script in speed.
Python is the best language when it comes to text processing in terms of what you are able to do with the data; Perl lacks support, R is slower and doesn't integrate as well, and SAS hasn't been cutting edge for years. But excepting that, what language would you even use that is so much more practical?

>Then Bash would probably be smaller and this would be a non-issue
Why would bash be smaller? It has no very little in terms of abstraction for you to leverage.

>If I'm this concerned about speed, I'm not going to be using Python anyway.
What's faster than python for text processing then? Are you going to write something from scratch with C++ and boost? Because that would be a massive waste of time

>>55642868
>What's faster than python for text processing then

Basically everything other than Ruby.

>>55642571
>Deploying Flask is far worse since the included webserver is a slow insecure joke.
You don't need to use that at all, in fact, the built-in webserver requires additional configuration instead of just setting up with apache2 or nginx or lighthttpd or whatever you use.

>>55642868
>Python is the best language when it comes to text processing in terms of what you are able to do with the data
Python doesn't have any tool that isn't available in other languages.

>Why would bash be smaller? It has no very little in terms of abstraction for you to leverage.
Because you reuse entire programs. You don't __need__ abstractions in Bash. When an abstraction doesn't exist, then it's time to pick a "real" language.

>What's faster than python for text processing then?
Scheme/Clojure(script) will perform >= Python.

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>>55640630
Go with this one instead.

>>55643049
nice meme

>muh bash

Python is only used for scripting because it is works on multiple platforms. That is it. That's it's advantage.

>>55643063
Yeah..and considering FreeBSD, macOS, GNU + Linux, and now even Microsoft is sanctioning Bash on Windows, this edge is disappearing.

>>55643061
Its better than C# and Python Prajeet.

>>55643112
nice meme

>>55643120
nice meme

>>55643125
thanks ;^)

how can you spend 4 months vacillating on *what* language to learn?

you could have gotten well into the fundamentals if you had just chosen one at random and plowed on.

it doesn't matter this much, OP. anybody reading this, don't spend more than 10 minutes making this decision.

>>55643167
this

>>55640630
Python is bad, It teaches a lot of bad habits, It's also really wonky when it comes to indentation, If you happen to fuck up and open your .py file in an editior that doesn't do tabs right it will fuck it up and the interpreter will refuse to run it until you fix it.

I have literally spent hours fiddle fucking with indentation errors in python, And worst of all after you learn python you will see it was a waste of time because it's such an underpowered language. Forget about writing any desktop apps with it unless you want to go insane.

Do yourself a favor and learn either C++ C# or Java.

>>55643219
>If you happen to fuck up and open your .py file in an editior that doesn't do tabs right it will fuck it up and the interpreter will refuse to run it until you fix it.
>I have literally spent hours fiddle fucking with indentation errors in python
You're utterly retarded

>hurr durr python is bad because I suck at computers and fucked up the indentation of a file by using this program and I'm too retarded to undo changes to a file so I had to correct it manually

>>55643167
I'm indecisive. I tried out C, Python, HTML/CSS, Java, and JS in those 4 months but couldn't decide which one I really wanted to stick to.
The only reason I made this thread is because [spoiler]I need (You)s[/spoiler]

>>55642951
>Python doesn't have any tool that isn't available in other languages.
Pandas, PyMC, NumPy, MatPlotLib are the best available tools for data processing in situations that don't require solutions to be engineered from scratch

>Because you reuse entire programs. You don't __need__ abstractions in Bash. When an abstraction doesn't exist, then it's time to pick a "real" language.
So you're going to pipe data through a chain of 7 executables instead of reading it into one program that doesn't need to wait for 6 to run and exit in sequence before it can do anything?

>Scheme/Clojure(script) will perform >= Python.
Not without > 8 cores, or if you're JVM isn't already running, or if you constantly need to tweak your model and recompile. Even then, you're talking significantly higher resource overhead for a performance increase that is nonexistent until Python's poor ability to scale becomes an issue.

>>55643219
>bad habits meme
>spending hours because you use some shit editor meme
kys

>>55643238
>being this butthurt over a meme language
kys

>>55643266
>it's a meme language because I can't open files
kys

>>55643245
you're a loser and you'll never amount to anything. the means to improve your life are right here and instead of going for it you're sitting here jerking off for shallow self-satisfaction in the form of attention from a crowd of literally anonymous losers.

>>55643248
You really are a pathetic Python apologist. I'm glad Javascript is killing your faggot language and becoming the one dynamically typed piece of shit to rule them all.

>>55643266
>he can't even figure out computers
kys

>>55643278
why are you so offended by me insulting your little meme kiddy training wheels language?

>>55642908
And every other scripting language besides Perl

>>55643249
>>55643266
>>55643278
guys, guys, you keep misspelling "kiss" for some reason. what gives?

>>55643301
I don't even like Python you little faggot, but I think you're utterly retarded and don't belong on /g/ if you fucking manage to "accidentally open a file in the wrong program" and make irreversible changes to it you have to manually go through afterwards

Just kill yourself already

>>55643301
>he can't open files
lmaoing @ your life

>>55643305
>talking like a losert
kys

>>55643304
Ruby is the only scripting language that was consistently slower than Python. Ruby 2.1 and above is also faster in a lot of cases.

>>55643297
>dynamic weakly typed = dynamic strongly typed
kys

>>55643323
you obviously have never opened a .py in more than one text edititor.

>>55643328
>Ruby
kys

>>55643248
>NumPy
Has a C API

>Pandas
DataFrames

>MatPlotLib
There's so many alternatives

>So you're going to pipe data through a chain of 7 executables instead of reading it into one program that doesn't need to wait for 6 to run and exit in sequence before it can do anything?
Python's threading and concurrency primitives are garbage. It's going to wait also between steps.

>Not without > 8 cores, or if you're JVM isn't already running,
You have no experience doing Lisp development, as revealed by this statement. (We don't restart the entire system between program runs.)

>Even then, you're talking significantly higher resource overhead for a performance increase that is nonexistent until Python's poor ability to scale becomes an issue.
You're the one who brought up performance. If I'm optimizing for performance, then I'm going to do it correctly.

>>55643340
>can't open a file
>can't spell editor
>uses shitty editors that fuck up his files
>can't reverse the damage of his retardation
kys

Java/C# if you want to go pro. for memes use Rust.

>>55643360
attacking typos is the trademark last stand of a man with no argument.

Anyway i think i have figured out why you are so angry, You went to college and got into debt for that shit didn't you? That's why you are so upset, You signed a federal undefaultible loan contract for an education you could have gotten for free online in a meme language that will be obsolete in a few years.

>>55643335
If it's not strong and static it's shit.

The difference between dynamic with weak typing and dynamic with strong typing doesn't matter in most cases and linters can catch these problems easily. The difference is even less meaningful when talking about shit like Python that gets equality horribly wrong.

>>55643346
>using numpy with c
just kill me now

>>55643405
>attacking typos is the trademark last stand of a man with no argument.
Ok then

>can't open a file
>uses shitty editors that fuck up his files
>can't reverse the damage of his retardation

No I didn't go to college. I went straight to a programming job.

>>55643340
I have, because I use both vim and PyCharm for Python development.

What kind of editor will change a file on open?

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>>55640764
>Lumping C in with Java and C#

>>55643417
Colt is also a thing.

Python users typically live in such a bubble that they are completely unaware of technologies outside their limited spheres.

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>>55643405
>pic = you

You suck at computers.

>>55643408
I don't understand what your point is? You're saying that it's not a problem because linters exist? Also, how does Python get equality wrong? Are you confusing it with JavaScript?

>>55640630
Just learn Javascript or a real language. There's no reason to learn Python anymore. Even Guido's employer has marked it as deprecated.

>>55643408
Agreed, except for languages that have good major systems.

Unless you've used one, you can't know what you're missing.

>>55643422
For me i would often go from Linux to Windows opening and editing on gedit nano notepad++ and even in the ide itself, Shit got fucked up along the way.

>>55643465
yeah cause you're retarded

end your life

>>55643465
So you configured gedit, nano and notepad++ to use different kinds of indentation and now you're angry at Python?

How stupid are you?

>>55641343
>Python has created an entire generation of programmers who think that Python is actually good.

It is good from a non-Python person point of view. With more newbies hopping onto the Python bandwangon, there's less competition in the IT job market.

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>>55643297
>getting this mad
Just because you're so insecure that you'll refuse to use a tool /g/ says is gay, even if it means inconveniencing yourself, doesn't mean I'm an apologist.

All I use python for is processing/translating/analyzing data because it's great for that. I wouldn't write an app server in it because it's shit for that. If Python lost all of it's support and became useless kind of like what happened with Perl, it really wouldn't affect me emotionally in the least, because I'm not a fag

>>55643491
nope. They were all configured the same. I think it might actually be the IDE.

>>55643511
You might also be a fag

>>55643405
>No one mentions college
>Spergs insecurities anyway about being a fraud who learned about computers from tutorialspoint
>Doesnt know about the .config file or whatever that his garbage text editor leaves in the project directory, blames python

Consider a new hobby or go ahead and lie about having the job you fantasize about having

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>mfw someone on /g/ can't open files

>>55643511
Just stop posting

>>55640630
I'm sick of these meme threads.
Learn whatever language you want, once you learn to code, the rest is just syntax.

>>55640630
ES6 is objectively better than Python. With Typescript it's not even close.

>>55640658
>>55640924
>>55640660
>>55640630
rite anon, you're a programmer; pick the right tools(language) for the right job (end-goal). Specialize in one (python) == done

2.7 has been primary for so long there is more evidence and support for it as well as the books are cheaper. Write code that is able to run in 3x. IE if you know something isn't going to run in 3x eventually you can write around it, or import someone's module.

sourceforge deals is your friend, go there and get some python stackskills videos for $5-15. The videos there are 5-10 minutes in length on average for your short attention span. When you are trying to learn code watch the videos first a couple times over again over the course of a day. Decaffeinate for a day and chill out, when you aren't all hyper-active read the books. Otherwise you'll read a page and lose focus (this must be a millennials thing).

For you, you'll probably try to jump headlong at a project before knowing how to write it: grab someone elses code and screw with it, and run it. Live practice will be of value for you.

cheap books off amazon are good for the soul (@ $1-10 for 500 page books?!?)

>>55643572
nice meme

>>55640764
Ruby + Java masterrace

>>55643511
>I think it might actually be the IDE
>think

so you are incapable of finding out what causes such a manageable fuck-up in your environment?

>>55643604
why in gods name would I ever want the JVM to run for every one of my programs?
Also who the hell uses java for anything outside of the companies that are desperately trying to move away from the oracle monster?

>>55643577
>pick the right tools(language) for the right job (end-goal)

Python is never the right tool for the job though.

>>55640764
Why does C go with Java and C#??

>>55643627
>why in gods name would I ever want the JVM to run for every one of my programs?

Why would you ever want the vastly inferior Python/Ruby/Perl/PHP vms to run for every one of your programs?

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>he still can't open files

>>55643629
>I have never used numpy, tensorflow or matplotlib in my life

>>55643682
Do Python users actually think numpy and matplotlib are good? Numpy is primarily necessary because Python is slow as shit and most popular languages have better plotting libraries or a nice interface to ggplot which is a lot better than matplotlib.

>>55643726
Keep up with the times, grandpa. matplotlib has been able to use ggplot as a backend for years now.

Also, I use rpy2 because R sucks ass to program in.

>>55643768
>has been able to use ggplot as a backend for years now.

Only a small fraction of ggplot functionality is available from Python.

>>55640630
Python is only good for webscraping. Other than that it is pretty unimpressive.

>>55643782
>Only a small fraction of ggplot functionality is available from Python.
I was talking about matplotlib, ya dufus. ggplot in it self is perfectly accessible from Python if you use rpy2.

>>55643346
>Has a C API
How is that relevant? If you're going to implement some kind of data mining algorithm in C, you're probably not going to use a Python library. Also,
>string processing in C

>DataFrames
Sure, let me just fire up my Hadoop Cluster

>Python's threading and concurrency primitives are garbage. It's going to wait also between steps.
I'm not saying Python's is going to run everything in parallel, just that the program would execute faster than the pipeline, in addition to being faster to write and easier to customize on the fly

>You have no experience doing Lisp development, as revealed by this statement. (We don't restart the entire system between program runs.)
No I don't, but I'm talking about a text processing script, not a program that's meant to mine the text content of OCR's made from all newspapers published in the past 100 years. It doesn't change the fact that if I'm running a clojure program at home, even on my 4 core server, any improvement I see will be negligible, if it even outperforms a python script.

>You're the one who brought up performance. If I'm optimizing for performance, then I'm going to do it correctly.
My whole argument here is about practicality. Just because I said Python is faster than bash doesn't mean I said it would outperform some kind of massive, distributed, data-mining apparatus

>>55640630
A book called "Python for the absolute beginner." Make sure to try the example problems at the end of each chapter. Good luck

>>55643814
Reading comprehension obviously isn't your strong suit.

>>55642211
It's in?

Even Reddit doesn't have this many dumb Python fags.

>>55643726
wonder why there's little interest in node.js for scientific computing, too hard for webdevs maybe

>>55640799
Python + C++ is really a better choice.

>>55643903
Not OP
Thank you

>>55643915
Because it's useless for anything that's the least bit CPU intensive.

>>55643913
Reddit is about your e-penis. Of course they would embrace language elitism.

>>55643904
rpy2 = invoking the R engine = full bindings to ggplot

>>55643968
So is Python. Node's FFI is also easier to use and much, much easier to optimize.

>>55644053
rpy2 has abysmal performance. I have R scripts that typically run in under 10 minutes that take over 6 hours using rpy2.

>>55644055
Python's not great, but node is even worse and I/O isn't really a bottleneck for sims as far as I know. If performance is an issue though, I'd think they'd just use C++

>>55644142
Javascript is shit but so is Python and node is just a thin layer over v8 and v8 is objectively much better than any Python implementation.

What's with "programmers" and they're obsession with which language is better. I do computational physics, so my code is supposed to run very quickly and I use python regularly. Obviously, I write the more intensive parts in like C, but connecting it with python makes it easier for all the other devs i work with . There are definitely some good uses for python, such as whippin up some working code quickly.

>>55644277
Programmers are autistic. Students are insecure and often stressed out. /g/ is filled with first year compsci students so you get the worst of both worlds.

>>55644277
Languages like Python are the main reason why most software is so buggy, slow and inefficient. Computing was better before these shit languages existed.

Smalltalk and Lisp were the peak of dynamically typed languages. None of these newer shittier languages should exist.

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>>55644331
>languages are responsible for shitty programmers

>>55644277
I just hate python because of the hundreds of people who have bragged to me about their important mathematical and statistical python scripts. Its a red flag usually indicating you are dealing with a smug idiot.

>>55644331
Theres no such thing as a best language. I prefer typed languages, specifically Scala, but Python code is much quicker to write. All languages have trade offs. Theres no such thing as a best language.

>>55644331
>>55644350
I agree with you about a lot of software being slow and inefficient. But I think it has less to do about the languages and more to do about what programmers are taught these days. Most devs today just don't know how to choose the right tool for the job and just write shitty code. Soo many people emphasize the fact that now days you don't need to worry about performance because computers are super fast, but this is soo far from the truth. This annoys me to ends, especially as someone who is a stickler for performance and efficiency.

Just learn some C, become proficient in java, fuck around with a toy language like Go or haskell, and pick an interpreted language out of a hat. Learn concepts/basic algorithms and you should be well on your way to a job.

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>>55644365
>It's actually pronounced bay-zee-un

>>55644365
But you just said it yourself, the people are stupid. Why blame the language? Sure, it might attract those type of people, but still. The thing is, the people who actually use those "important mathematical and statistical python scripts" aren't going to be the ones bragging about it.

>>55644350
Decent languages allow you to eliminate a huge number of errors via the type system. Python is just crap.

>>55644378
>but Python code is much quicker to write
This is primarily due to your own incompetence and unfamiliarity with Scala.

>>55644514
>muh types
>being too lazy to look over your code before you try to run it

So again the problem is with you, not the language.

>>55644514
not him, but attacking a guy's intelligence for stating an opinion that's widely shared (that python is easy to write in) makes you look like a dickhead. if you just want to finish walk away from this thread having stroked your own ego, fine, but you're not convincing anyone to give Scala a try by calling them incompetent.

>>55644514
Except if you can actually code, you wouldn't be getting " a huge number of errors via the type system." I use python on a daily basis and i have no problem with it. imo, it's a fairly well thought out language. To each their own though.

>>55644547
Link me a single popular Python project that doesn't have a ridiculous number of bugs. Django just had two severe CVEs that would be entirely avoidable in a statically typed languages.

I think most programmers that use dynamically typed languages are just too stupid to understand how to use type system to make illegal states impossible and eliminate invariants.

>>55644544
People that advocate Python are incompetent. Guido himself is incompetent so his pet language never really had a chance.

I don't work with popular projects so I really have nothing to say about that, but I personally code very performance intensive programs. Obviously you wouldn't use python for something like that, but I write scripts for a huge variety of tasks in python and they're usually fine. Anyway, anything using python shouldn't be critical so a few bugs here are there aren't a huge problem.

>>55644612
your first two sentences are non sequiturs. "a ridiculous number of bugs" says nothing about the severity of the bugs, but then you brought up Django's 2 severe CVEs, which says nothing about the number of bugs Django has.

I know this is nitpicky, but you're insisting on being nitpicky about the technical brilliance of using a language that eliminates types of errors by the virtue of being static. Playing fast and loose with your logic (or, to use your words, "being too stupid") makes you look like you're not fully thinking through your own argument.

The metaphorical roads you're laying down to get us to follow you to trying Scala (or other statically typed languages?) don't connect. To say nothing of the earlier point that you're not endearing yourself to anyone (and you're thus proving a terrible evangelist for your favorite language), you're not making a very strong argument on its own merits.

Maybe if I were a Scala fanatic I would be inclined to overlook this stuff, but I'm not, and the audience you're trying to speak to isn't either. So you should maybe try not being so venomous with your attacks on people you're trying to encourage to give your favorite language a try.

>>55644642
i'm honestly curious what your goal is here.

are you trying to get people to try scala? has anyone ever called you incompetent and successfully convinced you to do anything? have you not noticed that calling people idiots/incompetent/etc... makes one resist your advice?

I have a question regarding Python.

If I have to prompt a user for input, is raw_input the only way?

>>55640630
not gonna make it

>>55641388
Lord of the Memes

Should have learned Java instead way to fucking go, man.

>>55645185
If you are using python3 then input() should work just fine.

>>55645185
(this kind of doesn't make sense unless i assume that you're only familiar with running python scripts that interact with you on the prompt/command line, so forgive me if i've assumed you're less experienced than you actually are)

in the command line? there may be other ways, but `raw_input` (or `input` if you're using python3 (and you should)) is the "correct" way.

if you're just looking for ways to be weird, stop. python isn't designed to facilitate that, so you're going to find a lot of pushback basically everywhere you go. if you have a design constraint that you think justifies using something else, try to figure out some intuition about what that alternative should be (or at least what the qualities you need are). you can conceivably make users enter an argument when they call the script (e.g. `python myscript.py arg1 arg2 --optional-arg=arg3`) or you could make a GUI if you really want. that sort of stuff.

>>55640630
Add another language pretty early on, or youll become too lazy to type all those semicolons and brackets.
I recommend C

>>55641482
Bash

Python isn't a bad language, as long as your projects are below 1000 lines of code. After that, your project becomes a lot less maintainable and there's most likely a better tool for the job (most likely, not always). Python is a beginner-ish language, and the lack of type system will fuck you over when you do medium-large projects. I'm a big fan of Rust myself, you might think the type system is just nagging at you, but it does that because it loves you.

>>55645637
You'll get used to that in a few days.

>>55645764
Didnt go that way for me
Maybe im just lazy

>>55640764
Uh... Lisp and C?

>>55640630

> I've spent 4 months getting memed while trying to figure out which programming language I want to learn.

That happens to a lot of people..
They think about which langgue to learn instead of actually doing something. But that's a waste of time.

OP, to be a real programmer you need a couple of langauges anyway.

There are two rules of thumb:
-"learn one langauge a year"
-"master about 5 langauges"


It doesn't even matter where you start, but generally you want different categories. A suggestion would be:

1. One "quick and dirty" language like Python, Perl or Ruby for scripting, rapid prototyping and all purpose hacks.

2. One "heavy weight" language like Java, C++ or C# for lanrge scale, enterprise-like OOP development. This will also get you a Job.

3. You should look into C at some point, wether you like it or not it will teach you a lot of what's going on a low level area.

4. A functional language like Haskell, Scala, OCaml or Erlang (if you look closer, all those have different purposes and niches where they shine).

5. Some basics about the Web: HTML, JavaScript and maybe some JavaScript Framework. but unless you want to work here, it's OK to scratch the surface here.


Once you masterd that you can add a cool "bleeding edge" language like Rust, Elixir or Elm, so everybody knows you're the hot shit.


This may sound a lot, but honestly it's a lot of fun. Try out differnt langauges, look for coding ideas (for example start with the /g/ programming challenges) and don't think too much: just code, code, code. At least every few days.

If you have problems just use your langauge reference or google.

Godspeed, OP.

>>55645877

Oh I forgot:
If you ever feel bored you can learn a Lisp dialect, like CommonLips, Scheme or Clojure.

They are kinda special, but will bring you a fresh perspective. Maybe you want to work through the book "Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs" for that.

But modern langauges like Python (or Ruby even more so) behave in some ways like Lisps, so a good understanding of a scripting language will already give you a head start here.

>>55641388
C# and Java are where enthusiasm for life goes to die. Spent years of my adult life wading through shit documentation, neck deep, yet nothing but disappointment.

And then there is python. It's even worse than Microsoft's documentation. At least give me a ducking api listing.

C is the only elegant programming language. If you ignore so called strings. Life is difficult.

>>55645877
Rust is currently on the rise. Could rust be a replacement for a heavy weight language?

>>55643934
THIS
This is what everyone should learn

>>55646009

It would be great, because Rust is cool.

But there is just so much legacy code, C, C++ and Java are not going anywhere anytime soon..

Learn java.
If you know java you know C#.

>>55646849
I really hope Rust will become more popular. The only thing that stops it from being that is the learning curve.

>>55647329
>supporting the sjw cabal language
how cucked are you, anon?

>>55644065
Shifting the goalpost

All the people here trying to secretly meme that 2.7 is better have never learned 3.2.
I think 3.2 is great and if you know it the syntax for 2.7 is fairly self explanatory.

>>55648157
I never even learnt <3 jej

>>55648136

I thought you were joking and looked it up... holy crap:
>https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/pull/25640/

Why can't these SJWs just fuck off?!

I really really hate it when a cool langauge arises and then somebody starts arguing about irrelevant stuff like that.

Espacially since this is a cheap oportunity to put "major contribution to Rust languge" on some gurl'z CV.

Do we have to programm in assembly? we know the SJW don't understand it and stay away, but is that really the solution?

does c++ have fp stuff like mapping, filtering, folding or even good typing?

>>55640719
This.
Why do people seek validation for everything?

>>55648500
it's pretty sad, isn't it anon? we truly live in the worst time to be white males.

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>>55641815
q u a l i t y
u
a
l
i
t
y

>>55641815
hey anon. i want to learn C++ (and C). mostly just because i *want* to. i keep wasting time because i get caught up in people saying shit like c or c++ is pointless and learn Java or python but the truth is i kinda like c and c++. should i just stick with it? will learning c++ also teach me most of c? or should i learn c as well separately?

>>55640658

> using deprecated shit

>>55641098

The thing about old versions of python is they are a pain in the ass to port to 3.5, so you shouldn't use 2.7 unless you have something specific you need.

I started using an older version of Python just because that's what came with the IDE I chose on the Ubuntu software center. Eventually I had to upgrade, and port all my dependencies to version 3.5. I would have saved a lot of trouble by starting on 3.5

>>55643726

Python's plotting has never failed me . I honestly don't know what else you could ask of a graphing library.

>>55645637

Fuck off, learning syntax is the absolute easiest thing to do when learning a new language

>>55652452

C and C++ are fine.

And yes, learn them seperately. Start with C (because it's smaller) and add C++ afterwards.

After that you can still add Java or C# (which is pretty close to Java). The point is, Java enforces so things that are actually good 90% of the time. In C++ you can do a lot of cool stuff, but also a lot of really bad stuff.