When did you guys realise that deadlifts simply aren't

>>42677350

Pleb

>>42677384

Have fun snapping your back before you hit 40

Deadlifts are also massively overrated for hypertrophy

They are too physically taxing and you are better off using your energy for other exercises

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>>42677484
I completely agree. At first glance they appear to be the ultimate lift. Low reps, high weight and uses tons of muscles. But the problem is I could hit those same muscles deadlift uses more frequently while still recovering from deadlift. Then there's the fact that due to the larger amount of weight being used, little mistakes can be less forgiving injury wise. Some people seem to recover faster from deadlift than others and never get hurt doing it but that's atypical. If you can deadlift twice a week and never make mistakes and not have the recovery be a detriment to any of your lifts then more power to you. I'd rather do other lifts than don't leave me feeling wasted for a week at a time.

>>42677350
Deadlifts and Squats are literally the only way to get BIG and STRONG.

Enjoy bench press then? Because you will stay small forever doing chest and shoulders.

>>42677909

>Deadlifts and Squats are literally the only way to get BIG

This is what SS fags actually believe

Deadlifts are not necessary to be big at all.

>>42677909
>there are literally only 3 exercises

Hows your second week of SS/SL going?

>>42677886
I cut out deads and squats and just do trap bar DLs in a kind of squat form for lots of volume and pretty much everything is growing better, now.

I have more energy for upper body focused workouts due to the easier recovery, and my low back never gets in the way of my back work now.

>>42677350
When I didn't have money for weights.

Doing them light might be good tho.

Id never go under 15 reps comfortably per set. 60% max or less. Just for that GH gains.

>>42677909
>literally
you're a hyperbolic faggot who diminishes his opinion by exaggerating

I bet absolutely none of you speaking negative about deadlifts weigh over 200lbs.

>>42678050
>200lbs
>implying an average untrained male can't deadlift 200lbs

lmao

>>42678036
This

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>>42677350
Last week, actually

Itt: Sad summerfags that can't even hit a 2 plate diddy


Try not to be so mad at your moms all the time kiddos :/

>>42678161
See
>>42678130
But sub in 225lbs for 200.

>>42678186
No.

>>42678211
I bet you think a 3pl8 pull makes you a big boy :)

>>42678036
My nigga.

I wish I could do this but my gym doesn't have a trap bar. I guess I could try that thing people always use for shrugs. I hope that's specific enough that people know what I mean.

>>42677350
Around the time I realised I was a cuck and started watching my wife get BLACKED, my wife's son still does deadlifts tho

>>42678235
A machine lever deadlift is awesome for deadlifting.

>>42678228
I love it how you fucking faggots try to make it seem like a 3pl8 diddy is so fucking common. I have literally never seen anyone deadlift anything over 225 let alone deadlift at all. Yet, every faggot and his mother on this board will tell you they hit 4 plate within the first month. Top fucking kek

>>42678318

Because you go to a shit gym

Even the fucking curlbros at my can hit 4 plate and the powerlifters are at around 300kg

>basic hip hinge exercise that has been usrf for athletes and recreational lifters alike for a century is not worth the risk
Right, everyone else is wrong and you're right. Thanks for the insight, anon.

>>42677909
could you be any more wrong and stupid
>>42677987
correct
>>42677350
never, i love deadlifting

6pl8 is so close i can taste it, next bulk

>>42678318
any fat cunt can pull 3pl8 deadlift lol, i did it the first time i went to the gym.

>>42678365
>basic hip hinge exercise
there is the problem, most people these days have such poor mobility due to shitty lifestyle that they cant hip hinge properly and will round their lower back and fuck their shit up.

>>42678318
lol, salty weakling detected. Your standards are so fucking low, man. You should be able to get from untrained to 3pl8 in a matter of a few months at most. Most men that aren't completely sedentary their entire life can pull 2.5 for a single no problem.

Also, you're on a board dedicated to lifting. Average gym goers don't even know how to use machines properly...

I look a lot better now than I did a year ago, and my DL has gone up over 100lbs since then.

Don't know if it's totally correlated or not, but I only deadlift once a week and do a lot of exercises that help increase my deadlift.

I think it's a good overall measure of strength and training for your CNS etc.

People that make excuses not to do one or all of the big 4 lifts are just looking for justification to give up IMO.

Itt: full autism spectrum

>>42677350
not me but when my cousin got a lobotomy he started saying stupid shit like that

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>>42678365
well you just named the problem anon
>hip hinge
people have no idea how to diddly and they just rack on weight
look at that retard max chewning pulling conventional, people think this shit is normal
https://youtu.be/XVsXhZ-oCwQ?t=349

>>42678372
hey man, good luck and I hope you reach six plate!

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>>42678389
I pull 4pl8 at 160. It took awhile but I'm proud of it. I didn't start out as some fat retard who can't even walk up a flight of stairs.

>you're on a board dedicated to lifting

Confirmed being here less than 3 months.

People that don't deadlift are the same people that get bossed around by their gf's
>implying u have a gf

Nvm

>>42678428
Wow, exactly 4 plates? That doesn't sound made up at all lmao

>>42678428
Took me forever to hit 4pl8, did so in January. Up to 475 now. Getting lots of mires (men only unfortunately). I started doing rack pulls 50-100lbs over my deadlift and it helped my grip get stronger so I wasn't focusing on my grip when hitting deadlift PRs. Hoping for 500lb diddly by end of october.

also 160.

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>>42678459
Nigger detected

>>42678473
Good shit man. Keep at it

>>42677350
realized it a couple of years ago

i only do lightweight squats and deadlifts now, and progress very slowly

goal is to get 5RM 2pl8 squat and 3pl8 deadlift, currently at 1.5pl8 squat and 2pl8 deadlift

>>42678494
Thanks you too.

>>42678383
>people have poor mobility
This is not unique to the deadlift. Many people won't have the shoulder mobility to perform a good overhead press or the ankle mobility (or right leverages) to perform a full squat. You can't single out the deadlift if this is your concern.
>>42678410
>people perform the exercise poorly
Again, you can't fault the exercise by itself. You can fuck up almost any movement and snap your shit up but you can argue that the snappage in a deadlift is more detrimental than for example a tendinitis from retard curls or a torm rotator cuff injury from swing raises.

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>>42678237
this will never get old

>bulking
>deadlift twice a week, 1x up to 5rm and 1x up to 10rm
>failed my 160kg x5 last week, only managed 4 reps
>pull 140kg x 10 today
is that normal?

>>42678505
how the fuck has it taken you a couple of years to reach that?

>>42678527
i singled out the deadlift because people are more likely to be injured.

DL is goat, can't beat that rush of a new PR

You vain fags can keep your (((safe))) hamstring curls to attract other males tho

>>42678532
That's a pretty normal 5RM to 10RM ratio imo.

>>42678547
>implying there's concentric knee flexion during deadlifting
do both faggot

>>42677350
i briefly considered it after tweaking my back on the eccentric w/ a relatively light weight (365 lbs). i do that w/ my eyes closed but i lost tightness for a sec and TWEAK felt like lightning shooting through my low back.

but a couple days later and im fine so... no reason to be drastic

>>42678557
okay thanks, this eternal limbo from 3 plates to 4 plates is just so depressing. fuck I wanna hit 4 plaet

I work in construction so deadlifting is one of the most important lifts I can do to improve my performance at work. Also cleans and ohp

>>42678544
Unless there are statistics or other references to back that up, I can't believe that, sorry. At the gym I visit I've never heard of anyone who hurt himself during deadlifts but I've seen at least 5 cases of people who hurt themselves with Bench and variations and 2 cases on Squats. Of course this is also anecdotal but it shows there's conflicting anecdotal evidence. Again, based on that you can't single out the deadlift.

>>42678373
>this obvious lie
id love to watch someone who never diddled come in and try to pull 3pl8s and snap their shit up

>>42678579
Takes some time, don't listen to retards who say they hit 4pl8 in 3 months and everyone who doesn't just did it wrong. Even if it's true, everyone's different. Just keep on eating and lifting and you'll get there in no time.

>>42678609
I was 135 pounds soaking wet when I first stepped into my first gym, I couldn't even bench the 15kg bars they had there. I think I pulled 60kg when I first tried diddlying.

>>42678629
>use lbs for bodyweight
>use kg for weights
wut

>>42678618
I'll be traveling for 6 weeks and I wont be able to lift, starting the 4th of october. Is it reasonably to pull 4plaet for 1 rep before then if I pull 160kg for around 5 reps now?

>>42678649
Amerifats brainwashed me with their imperial system, I'm trying to resist but it's hard my dude

>>42678544
[citation needed]

i've seen a whole lot more OHP, bench, and squat injuries than deadlift injuries, and i doubt you can provide me with any actual statistics so i'll have to trust empirical evidence

it should also be noted that push-pull meets exist in large part because powerlifters fuck their knees and hips up squatting, but can still bench and deadlift no problem, so i'm leaning towards squats being the most injurious of the big 3

>>42678050
>tfw I dislike heavy deadlifting because too lazy
>trap dreads or low weight reps
>weigh 220 and can 1rm 295

I do them and actively try to increase them, but only because the programs I do demand them. Never seen any palpable benefits from them tbqh. Squats are a far better exercise

>>42678652
Sounds reasonable to me. If this is your main goal, try to read about peaking or follow a structured peaking program for the next weeks. If done properly there might even be some more weight in store.

>>42678686
The onset of a diddly injury will usually take much longer making it less likely to see. You always read about people snapping their shit up deadlifting but don't see it in the gym because they feel the pain hours/days/weeks sometimes even months later after it happens then go post about it online. Sometimes people just suck it up but it gets worse and worse over time. Disc injuries are very tricky and deceptive. You see when someone fucks their shoulder or knee on ohp or squat you usually can tell instantly from the sound or structure collapsing. An injury on deadlift usually looks a lot like a non injury on deadlift and often feels fine until later.

>>42677909
>fat t rex detected

>>42678801
thanks my dude, I'll check it out

>>42679453
except that squats also put heavy compressive forces on the lower back, and they also put a considerable amount of shear force on the lower back if you squat with more forward lean (long limbed lifters usually do this)

so squats have a triple whammy of potential knee problems, hip problems (especially for those squatting with loads of abduction), and back problems (especially for long femured lifters)

>tfw just hurt my back on 195x5
Welp my shit was already getting fucked up from squats so i guess its time to drop everything lower body for a while
Fuck...

>>42677350
after 1PL8

>>42678365
just because an exercise is old doesn't mean it is safe use of time.
upright barbell row
dumbbell chest flies
behind the neck barbell press

>>42679625
those exercises you named are all shit indeed
you don't NEED to do heavy conventional deads, there are loads of variations and you should add one of them to your program

>>42679625
>dumbbell chest flies
perfectly safe

>>42678050
Brah my first day in the gym I could do 225 with shit form.

>>42677886
that's Roger Estep, not Rippetoe lol

>>42679647
nice reading comprehension m'potato

Funny how as August begins to disappear this thread gets reposted more and more.

>>42678609
I remember when I was at uni some faattttt rugby player (probably weighted 2.5 plate at around 6ft) came into the gym one day. I was doing deadlifts at 3pl8, he asked to have a go, did it with perfect form. It was a small gym and I'd never seen him there before so I feel he may genuinely have never tried dl-ing before

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>>42679668
No, that one actually is Rip.

This is the one of Roger Estep that people frequently post as Rip.

>>42679711
you sound liek osmeone who tips the receptionist

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>>42679744

>>42679752
Rick and Morty is shit

>>42679747
a yank? or a cuck lol?
either way I'm a glorious Briton, we're not known for tipping

>>42679759
huh? What's Rick and Morty?

>>42677350
Looks like Jeb's gearing up for a rematch against Trump.

The only reason to deadlift is if you want to deadlift, and I do so I deadlift.

But I also enjoy looking like I lift so I do a lot of high rep accessories to go with my ultra low rep deadlifting.

>>42677909
>BIG and STRONG
You'll have a big strong ass and legs... What's that useful for? What do you define strength as? You think giant legs are going to give you the edge in a fist fight? Good luck, with your no cardio because you're always tired and sore.

>>42679540
Except with squats the more upright you are the better and the more you're getting out of it assuming you aren't trying to do something retarded like do squat mornings. There are ways to perform the squat for all lifters to maintain a more vertical back angle and thus drastically reduce injury potential. A deadlift with a vertical back angle isn't a deadlift. A lifter can also typically deadlift more than they squat so when they make a mistake it's going to create more shearing forces on the spine.

If you were talking strictly in competition I might agree but competition is a completely and utterly retarded metric to base iniury rate assumptions on.

>>42678365
You're not an athlete, and risking snapping your spine in half for "recreational lifting" is fucking retarded.

>>42679901
t. never played a sport in his life and doens't care for functional strength
fag

>>42680014
Shut up, you're a fucking coward loser.

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>>42679901
>You'll have a big strong ass and legs... >What's that useful for?
Having a big strong ass and legs?
>What do you define strength as?
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/strength Oh wow ooowweee
>You think giant legs are going to give you the edge in a fist fight?
>defines strength by a fist fight
>never been in a fist fight
>doesn't know how to fight

>Good luck, with your no cardio because you're always tired and sore
>og post is about squats and deadlifts are the only thing to build leg strength with
>some how gets that he doesn't do cardio from that post
>tired and sore
>tired and sore
Hurrrrrr muh superior speed durrrrr

>>42679901
Literally every sport requires strong legs you tard.

>>42677484
>not wanting to be capable of double over handing 500lbs for shits and giggles

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>>42680076
wrong

>>42678036
>lower back getting in the way of back work
How? There's only a few movements (main movement, not including variations) that even include lower back. I can row 225 for a set of 5 and deadlifting has never impeded progress or anything like that. ur just a babby

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>>42680332
So you're really good at bending over eh?

>>42678410
>600lb deadlift
>waaah look at upper his back rounding!!!!
noice, it's the equivalent of someone flaring their elbows on a heavy bench

>>42680462
Y-you can say that I g-guess

>>42680295
what the fuck did this reply contribute to the original

>>42680062
I'm a police officer

>>42680028
>doens't care for functional strength
See above, I absolutely do. "Functional strength" means not having a sore back hindering you when you get in a fight, which can be at any time.

>>42680069
>defines strength by a fist fight
Yes, I absolutely do. Your big muscles don't mean shit if you can get your ass kicked by some skinny gang banger who's actually versed in street fighting, or if you can get sucker punched then the fucker runs away while you're huffing and puffing after a couple blocks.

>>42679901
As someone who does fencing, having a strong ass and legs is exceptionally important. Actually, just about every sport requires having strong legs. And you want to know what builds leg strength, as well as power? Squats and Deadlifts. If you can't fit some cardio in as well you're doing something very wrong.

>>42680706
>you want to know what builds leg strength, as well as power? Squats and Deadlifts.
And a plethora of other exercises that don't fuck your knees and back up. Take it from someone who's 25 and probably has the joints of a 40 year old, or keep doing what you're doing and fuck your shit up. Either way it doesn't affect me, I'm legitimately trying to give helpful advice though.

>>42680678
>police officer

so you're a coward that got shitty grades in high school?

>>42680730
Just about every fencer does frequent squats at least. If the potential for damage mattered then every coach would not advise to do them.

And honestly, deadlifts have helped my body if anything. I had shit posture before I started lifting, my spine wasn't properly curved, and I had poor lower back strength. Now my posture is corrected and I feel like I can actually use my back without being injured.

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>>42680678
>Yes, I absolutely do.
No shit cause you're weak.
>Your big muscles don't mean shit if you can get your ass kicked by some skinny gang banger who's actually versed in street fighting
>i lift heavy weights to fight gangbangers
>I don't take a FIGHTING class
>I don't carry a knife
>I don't carry a gun
>I can't diffuse a situation
>I am actually in a place with gangbangers
Everything points to you being poor.
Also
>well versed in street fighting
Lol no. All they do is throw their arms around and grab your shirt.

>or if you can get sucker punched then the fucker runs away while you're huffing and puffing after a couple blocks
Yea no. Don't ever do that.
>turn the block turns out the chimp pack is waiting for you
There is almost never a situation where a gangbanger will fight fair. Pic is you by the way. You define strength by beating up niggers, but you never bothered to state what what kind of fighting style you practice. All you've said is that you can run for a long time.

>>42678609
Pssssst, i think youre being LE EBIN TROLED right now

>>42677350
Arms are seemingly too short to deadlift properly. What do?

>>42681053
Ok just keep working out your ass muscles and thinking that'll help you win a fight. Maybe the person that wants to kill you will challenge you to a duel to see who can lift the most weight from a foot off the ground once.

>>42681053
Where did he say he didn't carry weapons, diffuse situations, or take fighting classes?
>Everything points to you being poor.
Uh, didn't he just say he was a police officer?
I'd imagine that a police officer really would have a reason to be hanging out near gangbangers all the time, like their job.

>>42677350
They are good but I always hate the movement involved in doing it. I always feel as if I am not doing it right but since I do feel it work my lower back and legs then I guess I am doing it right. I don't go too heavy though so I don't round my back on accident. Squats are easier to do imo.

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>>42677350
ITT: little weak faggot cowards trying to justify being emasculated pussies who can't deadlift for shit.

>>42680275
T. Double overhands 2 pl8 @ 190lb bodyweight.

>>42681204
>Where did he say he didn't carry weapons, diffuse situations, or take fighting classes?
Read again for comprehension. The point is the argument went from having "strong legs is important in a fight" to "running is what you need to beat up gangbangers" and then he assumes that because I said having strong legs is important in a fight he now thinks that I am advocating lifting weights to fight people. I was pointing out how stupid that train of thought was when I listed all those things that would be better in a hostile scenario.
>Uh, didn't he just say he was a police officer?
Yea.
>I'd imagine that a police officer really would have a reason to be hanging out near gangbangers all the time, like their job
But I'm not a police officer. Most people are not police officers.

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>>42677350
Just got back from a workout (basement) and found the pussy but safe and effective way to get a lower back contraction, it's basically the top half of a deadlift.

You will need:
Open Bench
Barbell with the Plates

Simple, basically use the bed part of the bench (the part you usually lay/sit on) to rest the barbell on and stand behind it, find a safe comfortable position bend over and lift. Done.

It's much higher so you run less risk of being in a fucked up position and you can adjust your footing positions and bending and all that to a comfortable level.

But don't bother if the bench is super high cause there won't be a decent contraction. Somewhere in the middle is best.

>>42681348
Well you talk about functional strength. What do you define that as? What is your function that you need all this strength for, that you put in so much effort to achieve? Lifting boxes off the ground to put them on shelves at your pleb job? I'm saying strength = your ability to survive, and use an example of a situation where you may or may not survive based on the abilities you possess. What exactly are you implying strength is? The ability to pick things up and put them down? I understand it translates over, but we're on the topic of function here. Past a certain point diddlies won't help you much.

>>42678505
This
Fucking this
How heavy are you
You better be a girl.

>>42678318
nigga there are literally high school athletes who easily pull 315

>>42677350
>actually believe dls are important
>see some inhumanly big roidhead dling in my gym
>tfw he reps 225 for 10-20 reps only

>>42681422
>it's basically the top half of a deadlift.
so you discovered rack deads? Congratulations

>>42681424
>What is your function that you need all this strength for, that you put in so much effort to achieve?
There is never a situation where more strength is a bad thing for you.
>Lifting boxes off the ground to put them on shelves at your pleb job?
Haha
>I'm saying strength = your ability to survive
And somehow you're arguing that having leg strength doesn't matter in a fight.

>and use an example of a situation where you may or may not survive based on the abilities you possess.
>example of a situation
>a fight where you only use your fist is a totally real scenario that I didn't just make up because it implies that you don't have to use your legs
>it is still somehow bad to process extra strength in any fighting scenario

>What exactly are you implying strength is? The ability to pick things up and put them down?
Not just a wholesome fist fight. You think my definition of strength is just picking things up and putting them down, but when you simplify anything down to that it will always sounds pitiful. Besides even if that is what I believed you're still the one saying that fighting people that don't know how to fight is what strength means.

>I understand it translates over, but we're on the topic of function here.
I haven't had to fight someone in years. Most people don't live their days by fighting poor people. However the act of picking something heavy up is always going to follow you.

>Past a certain point diddlies won't help you much.
Doesn't matter. Every little bit of progress counts.
I agree that cardio is important in a fight, but to disregard leg power like it's not important enough will cost you teeth or a rib.

>>42681580
Not the rack, the bed that you lay on. Thats why you need an open bench.

>>42678161
Hit 4pl8 last year at 74kgbw

But I pretty much stopped since then, enjoy your meme lift

>>42680295
based Peter Ebdon working the rocket into shoots every game

>>42681667
>There is never a situation where more strength is a bad thing for you.
Yeah, so be strong by not having a bad back.

Stop fucking quoting everything with a wall of text. Like I'm going to read all your dribble.

>>42677350
When I finally hit a 635 lbs deadlift and dislocated a vertebrae at the exact same time.

Deads are alpha as fuck
Kys retard

>>42677350
I think squats are more dangerous than deads, but I love em both, so I won't be quitting anytime soon.

Ok then faggot, how am I supposed to work the same muscles? Deadlifts train the muscles and motion most useful in your practical everyday life and the ones you need to keep strong when you age.

>>42677350
I only ever do 5 reps. The one time I did like 90% of my max was because I was dared to.

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>TFW my gf can deadlift more than me
I am always a scared bitch when I do deadlifts and don't put on a ton of weight while she has had the form down for a long time.

>>42679612
If you are really that worried use squat machines that put no pressure on your back at all.

>>42681346
Ackshually, I DOH 375 at 175, my weak lower back being the limiting factor. Come at me and my ridiculously short arms bro

>>42678046
Dude, you're missing out. They are the GOAT back exercise.

>>42679776
it's a plebbit favorite plebtoon

>>42678609
I know anyone can come on 4chan and make up lies but I actually did 3pl8 DL the first time I ever tried.

Back in 9th grade I started going to the gym with some friends and I thought I'd impress them with deadlifts, but I had no idea how to do them properly and didn't know what weight to start with. I just loaded up 3pl8 since that's what I always saw referenced on /fit/ and I just walked up to it and pulled it up with the most cringeworthy snap city form.

I actually felt back pain for a long time and never consistently deadlifted for the next few years. Well, after lifting on and off since then and finally appreciating deadlifts done right, I can now rep 4pl8. Not a whole lot of weight desu, but I've only just started working out again about 4 months ago.

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>>42682779
>Yeah, so be strong by not having a bad back.
>I can't perform a basic exercise right

>Stop fucking quoting everything with a wall of text. Like I'm going to read all your dribble
>average of three sentences
All right I'll just come out and say it. You've lost and you're retarded.

>>42677350
When I herniated my L4.

It's now been 13 months with no improvement from PT. I have spinal cord involvement and need surgery. I still cannot lift over 10 pounds without pronating the disc and inducing sciatica.

>>42679901
could just kick their kneecaps in

People who shit on deadlift and squats are worse than vegans

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>>42677350
>make a little mistake
>have extra low back pain forever
Low bar squats with an extreme back angle are retarded too in fact I'd not do any kind of squat but front squat, box squat, hack squat, trap bar squat, dumbbell squat, split squat, maybe ssb squat or possibly high bar if you have the flexibility and correct levers to maintain a vertical back angle. Moving assloads of weight with a bent back angle is completely and utterly retarded and everyone who does this winds up hiding more pain than they cure.

>>42677350

t. weak faggot

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Never seen anyone who says what OP is saying actually looking decent.

>yfw there is not one aesthetic person who says deadlifts aren't worth doing
>yfw there is no video evidence of a deadlift even causing spinal injury.

Fat virgins who have lifted for 2 years and still look awful. That is who makes these threads.

>>42686415

I'm close to a three times body weight deadlift

>>42686397

If that image were true then literally everyone who deadlifts would have spinal injuries, because everyone has a form slip every now and then.
Also that image is literally fabricated by a butthurt anon trying to "prove" deadlifts are dangerous.

Seriously. Try and find that image anywhere else on the internet.

Deadlifting seems to make me stronger at every other lift.

I guess even if the lift itself produces minimal hypertrophy, it actually produces a lot more in the long-run in the fact that it helps you with everything else.

Like for example getting 50kg+ dumb-bells into position is easy if you can deadlift 200kg+. I have personality experienced this. I never deadlifted for my first few years lifting and found that once I got heavy with dumbbells that it become very hard to get them up, it just felt awkward. Then I started deadlifting, worked upto 220kg 1RM DL and I noticed a tremendous difference in my ability to pick up heavy dumbbells, like it was no longer a struggle at all.

>>42686434

Usually happens after you've finished your workout. Your back won't feel right a few hours lster

>>42686434

Literally none of the body builders I know do conventional deadlifts

Yes stifflegged and Romanian deadlifts

>>42686487

Thats still deadlifting you faggot.
Nobody is saying everyone has to min-max their training to push their powerlifting total as high as possible.

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>>42686450
> If that image were true then literally everyone who deadlifts would have spinal injuries
How do you know that they don't? And this comment proves you don't know how spinal injuries work. A disc protrusion can occur and get worse over time. It can be a day, a week, a month or more before it finally strikes a nerve. Rarely will such an injury be immediately apparent due to all of the adrenaline and endorphins from lifting heavy.
> Try and find that image anywhere else on the internet
That image is from a research paper performing a cross sectional study on all available spinal iniury evidence using the world's most renowned expert on spinal iniuries. Who the fuck are you? You're just some miserable little bitch trying to meme others into injury. nys faggot

>>42686464

Nope.
Spinal injuries are more often than not, instantaneous and severely painful.

>>42677886
The thing is though, there is scientific evidence that heavy compound lifts release more HGH. Deadlifts release the most HGH out of any exercise, but that's only if you are interested in producing that in the first place

>>42686566
>The purpose of this study was to investigate associations between acute exercise-induced hormone responses and adaptations to high intensity resistance training in a large cohort (n = 56) of young men. Acute post-exercise serum growth hormone (GH), free testosterone (fT), insulin-like growth factor (IGF-1) and cortisol responses were determined following an acute intense leg resistance exercise routine at the midpoint of a 12-week resistance exercise training study. Acute hormonal responses were correlated with gains in lean body mass (LBM), muscle fibre cross-sectional area (CSA) and leg press strength. There were no significant correlations between the exercise-induced elevations (area under the curve—AUC) of GH, fT and IGF-1 and gains in LBM or leg press strength. Significant correlations were found for cortisol, usually assumed to be a hormone indicative of catabolic drive, AUC with change in LBM (r = 0.29, P < 0.05) and type II fibre CSA (r = 0.35, P < 0.01) as well as GH AUC and gain in fibre area (type I: r = 0.36, P = 0.006; type II: r = 0.28, P = 0.04, but not lean mass). No correlations with strength were observed. We report that the acute exercise-induced systemic hormonal responses of cortisol and GH are weakly correlated with resistance training-induced changes in fibre CSA and LBM (cortisol only), but not with changes in strength.

>>42686566
the thing is though, that doesn't matter at all because it's a transient and very small increase in test and hgh that does nothing to build muscle

this broscience needs to fuck off and die already

>>42686699
waow this

>>42686397
stu mcgill's stuff?

>>42686855
He's one of several study authors from the research paper. Just google deadlift shear forces for the pdf of it.

>>42686978
already looked through that one a long time ago

in an article related to that study he also talks about the spine adapting to lifting heavy loads, which is how powerlifters are able to lift loads that could theoretically not be sustained by the low back at all in an unadapted state

also there are adaptations specifically to lifting with lumbar flexion which is how some guys pull with dogshit form all the time and seem to never get injured anyway

>>42686999
> in an article related to that study he also talks about the spine adapting to lifting heavy loads
yeah, no. he talks a lot about the discs having a finite number of cycles and injuring them causes them to wear out quickly. anything related to adapting doesn't change the fact that deadlifting with heavy weight and a mistake in form can result in injury. mcgill isn't against deadlifting or anything but his own research is pretty damning for anyone trying to go heavy on it.
> also there are adaptations specifically to lifting with lumbar flexion which is how some guys pull with dogshit form all the time and seem to never get injured anyway
literally nobody does this. you're confusing thoracic rounding which is perfectly normal for a trained lifter with low back rounding which is a mistake that leads to injury under heavy loads. even without rounding, a 600+ lb deadlift produces enough shearing forces to result in injury with good form.

>>42687121
no, actually i'm not confusing anything, I'm referring specifically to people who enter lumbar flexion and not thoracic flexion (which I'm aware is perfectly fine)

https://www.t-nation.com/training/interview-with-dr-stuart-mcgill-part-1

>Now for a paradox: If a guy has a long history of lifting with some flexion, the trabecular bone in the vertebral body will be strongly adapted. It appears as though stronger and denser trabecular bone reduces vertebral end plate damage and the ensuing delamination process. This characterizes the grand old men of powerlifting who have survived years of lifting with a flexed spine.

see freaks like Eric Bugenhagen who do 500lb zercher deadlifts with a fuckload of lumbar, not thoracic, flexion - this is most likely the physiological reason behind them being able to do things that would maim anyone else

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>>42687121
>>42687171
>literally nobody does this

sure they do

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EeYrcpbn4o8

I lift for aesthetics, and I was gifted with big calves. Leg press is safer, no risk on back, still develops quads enough that I look good naked. It's really just the autistic crowd that gets off on their gym numbers hurr durrr that deadlift

>>42687171
Wow that's some staggeringly poor reading comprehension. The trabecular bone does not protect against rounding. He's talking about COMPRESSIVE NOT SHEAR forces here and indeed the spine can adapt to withstand insane levels of compressive forces. Read later on in the interview,
> Here's the "no" part of the answer. The story changes with lower loads and repeated bending. The heavy-boned spines adapted for lifting don't protect against bending. When the compressive load is lower, multiple bending causes a weakening effect

>>42678318
I literally saw a woman doing sets of 6 with 325 yesterday.

Get over yourself,

>>42678365
Trap bar deadlifts have been widely accepted as a superior exercise to the barbell version for both recreational lifters and athletes for quite some time.

>>42687308
And to further this, the assumption is a powerlifter will be placing low sheering forces on their spine due to using exceptional form thus allowing the trabecular bone to absorb the load rather than the ligaments and thus the discs. If a powerlifter made a mistake, bending of the low back occurs, then the trabecular bone ability to bear compressive load becomes meaningless as it's now a shear against the spine rather than a compression against the bone.

>>42678401
Do you think your deadlift is what made you grow or all the assistance stuff you do for it?

>>42687308
>does not protect against rounding

obviously it doesn't prevent you from rounding your spine, but it definitely make the spine more resilient to lifting with flexion - otherwise no such adaptation would have resulted from flexion

>If a guy has a long history of lifting with some flexion, the trabecular bone in the vertebral body will be strongly adapted [to lifting with flexion]

note I am talking about static flexion, and not dynamic flexion

>Here's the "no" part of the answer. The story changes with lower loads and repeated bending. The heavy-boned spines adapted for lifting don't protect against bending. When the compressive load is lower, multiple bending causes a weakening effect

not really applicable to deadlift, directly applicable to weighted flexion cancer like decline weighted situps

>>42687121
>>42687308
who cares, post body so i can laugh at you geek

>>42679641
>Weighted impingements
>safe

>>42677909
What are dips and hiking?

>>42687391
> obviously it doesn't prevent you from rounding your spine, but it definitely make the spine more resilient to lifting with flexion - otherwise no such adaptation would have resulted from flexion
No, it does not. Not at all. McGills whole point is that bending/flexing of the spine causes a "delamination" process that eventually leads to injury. The trabecular bone is not adapted to bear shearing aka flexing it's adapted to take large loads of compression which provided good form is used, allows the trabecular bone to bear said compression. If bad form is used then bending occurs and the trabeculae bone no longer protects against this type of load. Deadlift adapts the trabecular bone through compression, not shear. He couldn't have said it any clearer
> The heavy-boned spines adapted for lifting don't protect against bending
Note he's referring to crunches but the only distinction made is compression. No where does he state that the spine can adapt to shear force.
> not really applicable to deadlift, directly applicable to weighted flexion cancer like decline weighted situps
The only difference here is you have to flex your spine a little. A heavy deadlift with a mistake in form is 10x worse. The spine does not adapt to shear the trabecular bone can adapt to compression which is what bears the load in a deadlift with good form. No where does he state the low back can safely bend under load.

>>42679901
>You'll have a big strong ass and legs... What's that useful for?
>You think giant legs are going to give you the edge in a fist fight?
>he doesn't know you throw your legs and hip in a punch for max power

https://cdn2.vox-cdn.com/imported_assets/2176605/wb1gT2_medium.gif

https://cdn1.vox-cdn.com/imported_assets/2176617/jnvshr_medium.gif

what's with this new meme that every compound lift is dangerous?
protip: work on your mobility and flexibility too, not just strength. hardly see anyone else stretch at my gym.

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I'm dying to try some sumo deadlifts to have a bigger ass, but these threads always scare the shit out of me.

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So guys
What's the consensus on how to replace deadlifts if I still want stronger back?

>>42687725
It's stick and move 99% of the time. Home run punches are not how the vast majority of fights are one. Strong upper and enduring legs win the fight. Float like a butterfly sting like a bee.

>>42687544
You understand that flexion also changes the distribution of compressive forces, correct? Even though shear force is dominant as flexion increases, compressive forces and their distribution still play a role (see von-Mises criterion)

In that way, the adaptation of the trabecular bone DOES make lifting with some degree of flexion safer (again - or the adaptation would never have occured in the first place). I'm not saying delamination doesn't happen or talking about injuries from chronic flexion (which you seem to think I'm denying occur or implying this adaptation can stop - I'm not), or that the trabecular bone protects against shear, I'm proposing that this is the most likely reason some lifters can survive lumbar flexion without instantaneously rupturing a disc

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>>42687792
Yeah you're right, but if you got the stamina to use big legs they are an advantage.
Look at the legs on this heavy weight bad boy.

>>42684589
Explain how this went down, what was your weight, experience, weight diddy'd, etc. Thanks in advance.

>>42687544
these are Stu's own words, explaining that this adaptation does indeed relate to being able to survive lifting with flexion
>>42687817
> It appears as though stronger and denser trabecular bone reduces vertebral end plate damage and the ensuing delamination process. This characterizes the grand old men of powerlifting who have survived years of lifting with a flexed spine.

maybe you need to work on your reading comprehension

>>42677350

>/fit/ doesn't realise Jon Pall literally died doing deadlifts

>>42687817
he's saying that you can lift with a locked position spine but the safest position is neutral still. a deadlift with bad form aka where your spine bends UNDER LOAD is not safe nor protected by anything. bending is a result of muscles failing to keep the spine rigid thus forcing the ligaments to take more load than they'll ever adapt to and over time delamination of the spine occurs which leads to disc injuries of the spine. this process is sped up by increasing such motions or by increasing the shear of such motions or both. All of which occurs in a deadlift with bad form aka a mistake aka when bending/flexing occurs under load.

>>42678036
>I stopped doing deadlifts
>Now I just do "other" deadlifts

If your anthropometry is such that deadlifts fuck with your lower back there's literally no reason not to do this. It's still a pull from the floor though and activates nearly all the same muscles so its not magically a completely different exercise.

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>>42680484
>upper back rounding

Anon, I think you might actually be retarded.

>>42687837
> It appears as though stronger and denser trabecular bone reduces vertebral end plate damage and the ensuing delamination process. This characterizes the grand old men of powerlifting who have survived years of lifting with a flexed spine
More staggeringly poor reading comprehension. He carefully defines two types of "flex", do you know what they are? He also clearly states that even the type you're erroneously referring to isn't safe compared to a neutral spine. It only explains why some people may be able to deadlift with a flexed spine and not get injured but is still not generally safe. It's the flexing MOTION aka bending/flexing under load that isn't protected against. You're referring to a static position eg good form. This is shifting goal posts and not entirely true then either

>>42678564
>what are multi joint muscles for 500 alex

I thought summer was over?

>>42680484
That's 495 you autist

Also kill yourself retard

>do some diddlies
>afterwards do some pullups
>feel a tightness and in the middle of my back when I'm hanging from the bar
what is this? Am I on the way to snap city?

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>>42680484
>It's ok because it's a PR

you realize that doesn't make any sense ? Rounding your back with the heaviest load you can handle is the worst possible thing you can do for your back

>>42687937
The glutes are extending the hip during a deadlift, not the hamstrings, you can't extend the hips with the hamstrings while having knee flexion.

if you don't do deadlifts you're the same as the dweeb who does biceps every day

If you have back pain deadlifting it may well have nothing to do with your form and rather because your spine shape is better suited to twisting motions rather than bending. Don't listen to the retards claiming everyone should deadlift. Form is piss easy even retards can do it it's not your form it's the shape of your spine.

>>42678428
Nice bro

I just pulled 418 at 144lb bw 19 years old but it was like Maxx Chewning's form, the thing is, my spinal erectors / middle back became absolutely huge from it, and not much upper back or glute development at all,

I would say those style deadlifts have their place for solely spinal erector development but it is better to do variations instead of actual deadliftng for strength/size gains,

When i started doing jefferson deadlifts

>>42677350
When I fucked my back up and didn't go to the gym for 5 months

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>>42689013

itt: butthurt dyel skinnyfat faggots on their 3rd week of SS

>>42687975
>495
>6pl8s
>talks about pulling 600 in the video
Whose the autist now, BUD

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>>42689763
If you have a thin spine with ovoid shaped discs you're more likely to herniate a disc deadlifting but can withstand twisting motion much better.
If you have a thick spine with limacon shaped disc you're less likely to herniate a disc deadlifting but will fuck your shit up with twisting motions.
Everyone is not wired to deadlidt even with good form those with oval discs run a greater risk of injury.

>>42678228
>a big boy
4u

This thread is filled with sub 600 lbs deadlifters.
Or natty fags

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>>42677350
Feels bad man
>Snapped my shit up after YEARS of good form lifts
>I used to lift, got to 505 milestone, stopped for 2 years due to depression/lack of motivation
>came back in feeling great trying to get back to my former glory (natural)
>4 months in do 420 for about 4 reps, feel good
>put on 455, get about 4 inches off the ground then SNAP in lower back
>Almost completely freak out, feel like complete shit for about 2 weeks, can barely walk
>glad I didn't have lasting injury, haven't DL since, sticking solely to Oly weightlifting since lifts are much more leg dominant than lower back
Feels really bad, DL was one of the few lifts I loved so much and now I'm too freaked out to do them again. Having a 505 DL natty at 175 was something I was proud of and was my best lift.

>>42687784
lowbar back squats or olympic lifting

>>42679744
Summer is almost over, it's almost over...

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>>42679744
That's rip actually

>>42678050
I'm 133 and dl 350(i know pussy weight but ive only lifted a little over a year)lol I love dls

>>42677886
i don't understand you. i deadlifted 4 or 5 times a week since 2014 with no detriment. maybe you're doing something wrong.

>>42677437
I'm 54 and dead 375 on the regular, chickenshit

>>42677909
Deads, squats, and Bench are MEATMAKERS

>>42677987
Not necessary, but very helpful, if done wisely

>>42692184
It's almost like humans are different and we grow differently to different stimulus. Whoa....

>>42686522
>not just going to the doc for an xray if you are worried
form breakdown?? let it go
you guys are really overcomplicating this

>>42694390
By the time you go to the doctor it could be already too late. Enjoy a decade long nursing of a back injury.

I've been lifting for 5 years but I only recently started deadlifting.

I can do 330x5 or 380x1 without a belt at 5'7 175, 13-15% BF.

I the 380x1 I did yesterday felt good, but I saw stars and felt a bit woozy, how can I learn to properly breathe while deadlifting? My goal is to just do 405 for 3x5 working sets and I'll stop there.

>>42677909
t. just hit a 185 squat

>>42695285
don't breath while deadlifting
you should only take a breath before pulling and release while putting the bar on the floor

>>42678410
that retard is pulling even 2 plate with low back rounding

The deadlift is the only exercise I know for sure gave me gains, back, traps, forearms, legs, ass, you name it. Also core..

>>42695840

Tfw you fell for the squats and deadlifts are enough for core meme

>>42695999
I do core additions as well.

>>42680678
So you want to say you are lifting for fighting retardo

>>42695840
So you didn't work these body parts out before?

Are all deadlifters chronically retarded?

>>42697739
>isolated forearm workout

fuck off

>>42692305
>54
shouldn't you be at the beach getting used to the sand?

>>42678318
ur a weak pussy a kid i know hit 615 at 183 after 2.5 years of training

>>42680678
> police officer
> not a coward

I honestly think that the average cop is megalomaniacal to an alarming degree. Fucking pussy hiding behind your badge and gun

>>42698012
>fucking pussy cashier hiding behind your counter
>fucking pussy pilot hiding behind your cabin door
>fucking pussy doctor hiding behind your white coat

im not that guy but i literally cant figure out what you mean by that comment. ita not like cops walk around white their badge and gun after work randomly bullying people for stuff

do you want cops to detain people with mma matches or something?

also pro tip: most people doing anything are retarded faggots

>>42692714
nahhh i think you're just doing something wrong pussy

>>42698067
> it's not like cops walk around white their badge and gun after work randomly bullying people for stuff

t. guy who has never gone out in his life

>>42698124
im still not understanding. 95% of the time you dont even see on duty cops out of their cars much less off duty

you sound like a nigger whos upset that he got arrested for a crime he was actively committing. such injustice.

>>42677350
When I went to med school and learned anatomy.

>>42680678
what your routine?

>>42698109
Interesting. And what set of circumstances are you operating under to reach said conclusion? I guarantee you're a clueless faggot parroting current meme logic.

Can you even hurt yourself or damage your body over time with deadlifts if you're not egolifting or being a dumb retard and lifting with bad form? If you just do it right it seems like one of the most natural, easiest and safest lifts to me.

>>42700344
it's genetic. some people can hurt themselves even with good form. their spine doesn't tolerate heavy compression well. there's nothing natural about picking up several hundred pounds from the floor. it's not based on your gender nor your size, either. small people and girls can deadlift too. it's not outliers, either. there's nothing uncommon about spines that aren't tolerant to heavy compression. like I said it's genetic. deadlift is not the best lift for all.

>>42700344
Microtears are a bitch and can fuck anybody over.