Question to guys who've done roids: Is it legitimately a

>>42526180
If that's him at fifteen when was he homeless living out of a car he bought from a crackhead

Sorry, I don't take roids but want to give my 2 cents.

I don't believe natty lifting is a waste. You can gain mass, look good, and be physically healthy.

However, you have to have realistic expectations. Any popular fitness personality is most likely roided up. You will not resemble these people as a natty, and it can take YEARS to achieve what a roider could achieve in the span of months.

>>42526213
seems stupid to spend years on something you could do in the span of a few months does it not?

>>42526194
then what?

you never finished your sentence you dumb cunt

>>42526232
i'd rather have a working heart and keep my hair thanks

>>42526194
...... what? finish your damn thought.

>>42526232
depends on what your goals are

>>42526244
>>42526259
Reread the sentence morons, he did finish it.

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>>42526180
Just take supplements bro

>>42526308
what's the joke in this pic?

Don't kid yourself, strength gains are from consistent long-term tissue building and gradually applying stress to the tendons and ligaments so they don't rupture. You don't build any quality mass on roids. Look at the people at your gym who are on them. They're all disgusting as fuck. bloated as shit. Then once you're off them, what happens? you'll probably lose all your gains. There's a reason why the classical greek statue physique is so rare and sought after, it's developed through pure strength and not doing 9*9 baby goat shoulder raises.

>>42526333
This is a very unflattering photograph and the person seems quite undeservingly braggadocios.

>>42526180
If you just want to get into athletic shape and have some visible abs - you don't need roids for that. Just eat more, eat healthy, burn that fat out and that's it.

If all you REALLY want is muscular wide chest, wide back, huge legs and arms - you are wasting your time by not using roids.

>>42526396
You don't build any quality mass on roids
brainlet detected

>>42526180
Go to the reddit sub for steroids and look at their flowchart

>>42526410
Aside from his somehow weak arms, that dude would jooicy if he lost the fat

>>42526180
On my first cycle. I added almost a plate to all my lifts in 10 weeks. I still have 4 weeks left on my cycle. What do you think? It feels amazing. In fact, I don't want it to end. I hear PCT is terrible and you lose a lot, but fuck it. You only live once and I wanted to do a cycle just to see how it is and what the fuss is about. My plan is to focus back on my cardio and get cut anyways, so I'm not worried about it. Lifting in general seems to be a waste honestly. As long as you can do 1/2/3/4 all 5x5, then you're fucking leagues beyond any normie out there.

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>>42526396

factually incorrect. Please refrain from spreading your personal opinions as fact

>>42526396
This, you can tell someone is on roids instantly.

>>42526286
He forgot to put a coma and a question mark OP IS A FAG.

>>42526428
>>42526453
hurrr durrr we did a DEXA and it came up as FFM even thought it could have been water retention. You don't understand the difference between muscle volume and actual tissue. Like when you grow older from being a baby you will see what I mean when you have a physique when you wake up without a pump and lighting.

If you think charlie shitstain with the bacne that rivals jupiter looks like a greek statue then you're a fucking nutjob.

>hurr he's bulking brah, looks bloated

nah, when you have a physique you will understand. Until then, continue being DyeL.

>>42526286
he said 'if'

Natty lifting tends to become a waste after you've experienced roids. That's the problem, it really is hard to go back and that's coming from personal experience.

The best analogy I can give for natural vs enhanced is that enhanced lifting is what normies and people who have never lifted before think that lifting is like. Which is not surprising considering the number of fake natty fitness personalities who are on gear and basically destroy any sort of reasonable expectations.

Natural lifting isn't a waste, but after noobgains are totally milked out the input vs reward starts to get fucking insane. Months of focused training and dieting might net you a few kgs on your lifts and make almost no visual measurable difference in your physique. It's fucking hard.

I hopped on way to early, couldn't even bench 2pl8, and when you start that early it's basically just a fast forward button rather than a pathway to something that was otherwise unachievable. It was lazy on my part, no way around it. What I've achieved is WELL within the realms of a patient natty, just not in the same time period: <5432 in under a year of lifting.

I'm done rambling, the answer is that it depends.

>>42526504
Yeah now read the rest of the sentence you fucking mongoloid and you'll see that he finished it

>>42526396
this is basically the natty cuck equivilent of a mum saying that "protein shakes don't build real muscle dear"

muh quality mass
muh bloat

I'm not saying that most brolifting roiders don't look like bloated shit because they do, but that's a function of their own stupidity it isn't an inherent fact of life for responsible educated steroid users.

>>42526505
Agreed here. Could barely squat 3pl8 for reps before I hopped on. I feel the same.

>>42526505
Does PCT really kill all your gains after a cycle? Is cutting after bulking and cycling recommended

>>42526553

Post your physique. I'm not saying the wisdom I am spitting is conventional or well-known. I think you can only know it if you trained natty for several years and have developed the kind of physique that discipline offers you.

>>42526232
Roiding is inherently unhealthy and must be maintained in order to keep the muscle.

If you manage the cycles well then the negative side effects will be minimised but there's always risk. It can lead to enlarged heart and eventually can damage your body's natural ability to produce testosterone.

I don't disagree with roiding, but I personally am not up for the possible side effects.

>>42526592
It literally accelerates your growth, sure there are steroids that make you blow up due to water retention, but a normal cycle will have you grow real muscle mass, just like a natty would if he trained long enough.

You'll also lose some water and glycogen in the muscles when you come off, but again there is still actual "meat" gained.

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I'm natty.

sry to ask, but google couldn't help me and I am not a native english speaker, how much is 2pl8 in kilo, or lbs? thank you internet :)

>>42526654
100kg

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>girls don't care about hair bro
>yeah you could totally beat me up in a fight
>yeah man, you're strong, man

>>42526633

It might, it might not. I'm not claiming to be an expert on roids. I've never touched them and I am only going by my own experiences and what I've observed in the gym. I can say that body mass is indeed dependent on testosterone levels so when that goes down so does the LBM. Look at all the ex-bodybuilders. Even yates looks dyel.

You're really fucking yourself if you roid, at least within the first 8-10 years of lifting.

>>42526673
He looks like a bro though. I think people assume too quickly that these supermodels have shit personalities

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>>42526688
Just read into how your body actually works before you spout stupid shit like this.

>>42526654
2pl8 just means two plates on either side. Plates are usually 20kg, and the bar is normally 20kg, so it would be 100kg

>>42526708

yep, just post pics from ya putin reaction gifs in ya basement. You know everything, much expert. I don't think you are that discrete with the broad quality of physiques that exist. I bet you're someone who makes a big argument on isertions. Dman, my bicep tendon is a little long, will never make it.jpg.

I think until you see it you don't understand it. Enjoy your dyel physique and spend 45 minutes working on a pump because you're insecure.

>>42526688
you are retarded, please look into topics before weighing in on them

>>42526708
>>42526779

lots of roiders who are trying to defend their shit physique. Don't worry, once I cut I'll like the way I look!

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>>42526586
>Does PCT really kill all your gains after a cycle? Is cutting after bulking and cycling recommended

Will lose some strength and you'll look smaller due due glycogen leaving, but you'll maintain the vast majority. Recovery is genetic.

>>42526592
>Post your physique. I'm not saying the wisdom I am spitting is conventional or well-known. I think you can only know it if you trained natty for several years and have developed the kind of physique that discipline offers you.

I'm 6'1 @ 95kg, 14% bf*. My physique is shit, I've been lifting for 8 months, like I said. You'll struggle to find a lean guy running test with his e2 under control that looks like a bloatlord.

"greek statues",
"physique that discipline offers you",
"you don't build any quality mass on roids".

Please post what a quality, non roided 'greek' physique looks like. I've posted what a high quality roid physique looks like.

>>42526688
>I can say that body mass is indeed dependent on testosterone levels so when that goes down so does the LBM. Look at all the ex-bodybuilders. Even yates looks dyel.

Dorian Yates is like 55 and is still taking testosterone, he also has multiple children and looks excellent and very muscular compared to the average man of his age, despite being involved in one of the most health damaging activities ever.

>>42526770
>>42526794

I don't even roid, I just have a basic grasp of human physiology.

I respect both parties, but I don't respect people who know nothing and spout garbage as fact.

>>42526797
>I'm 6'1 @ 95kg, 14% bf*. My physique

yet likes to weigh in like he's been in the game for decades.

just look at someone like the buff dudes or jeff seid (questionable). There are even some roiders that have originally had a great natty physique and stuffed it up by roiding. There's a sharpness to the muscles, it doesn't rely on a fill look which is what roids do. Fill your body up with shit and literally adds nothing aesthetic to your body. If you looked good and are on roids, it's because you looked good before roids.

>>42526180
if you have superior genetics

>such as myself
>ie, 6'5" broad shoulders, tiny waist

I am an extreme example so use your own judgement but as my natty limit I supermog everyone I come across, and not even joking (you have to remember lots of ppl who don't look like they roid do) 99% of all roiders 2, there is legit 1 person I have ever met who mogged me in size and strength (he was 5'7" and a legit elite class semi-famous powerlifter)

>>42526849

Well I have a degree in sport science and have been training for six years. It's great to just deflate someone and not even offer a counter-argument to make yourself feel like more of an expert. But I am absolutely willing for someone to take me down, please, I am a critical thinker and a positivist. There's no ego here. Show me a before and after picture of someone who did roids that looked Dyel that now looks good. I'm inclined to believe that it's just a mental illness these days, especially for recreational use. Prove me wrong, please.

>>42526873
>jeff seid (questionable)
Stopped reading there

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>>42526873
oh cool you're very dumb, both of those people are BLATANTLY roiding you goof.

we're done

>mfw roidcuck who has been lifting for 8 months knows more than mr DEDICASHUN AND DISCIPLINE

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>>42526754
>and the bar

>>42526918
>>42526916

oh boy, here we got the "bigger than me" "must be roiding" cucks. When you really see what you can do these days naturally with the quality of literature available then you will start to shift your attitude to what is attainable natty.

Reminder that greek statues are anatomically impossible but made to look real, so this faggot thinks you can achieve a literal fantasy body completely naturally.

>>42526494
so I guess men don't have more muscle than women, huh guys? Because testosterone doesn't add muscle right guys? Because androgen receptors does't exist right guys? Because protein synthesis doesn't exist right guys? Because nitrogen retention doesn't exist, right guys? Because nandrolone doesn't increase body mass in wasted HIV patients right guys? Because all research on androgens in humans never happened right guys? Because basic medical knowledge acquirable through a biology 101 class is fake right guys?

Anyone got the image that shows lbs of lean mass gained without exercise and with exercise, shown for both natties and people on test?

IIRC you put on basically the same muscle as a training natty if you just inject and then do nothing. If you train its like 4 times the amount?

does Gandy roid?

>>42526929
>quality of literature
HUUUURRRRR lift and count macros, I'm big like seid. You are fucking delusional faggot.

>>42526961
Those that pin and do nothing put on even more than those that are natty+lift
And by a huge amount

>>42526929
man, im the 6'1, 95kg, 5432 guy from before but im starting to think your just a decent troll who got me and a bunch of other people.

>>42527028
either troll or severe handicap. Either way you can tell he doesn't lift

>>42526947

You're agreeing with me that testosterone is the critical factor to performance and LBM? There's a key here, normal levels, and elevated levels. HIV patients? Low test. Those other words you mentioned. How do they relate? Do people plan on hopping on test for 4-5 years straight and that's their "cycle"? I'm not arguing the function of testosterone. You are artificially elevating your testosterone for a small period of time, and then it goes away. Why do you think yates is on test? It's because he's old, because that's a naturally occurring process of aging is decreased test. Rather than sarcasm and spouting words, why don't you explain to me the "science" behind roids and why they contribute to LBM gains the same way that natty lifting does. My argument stands as this, the LBM gains that you get on roids is not the same composition of LBM you get training natty. Even if you control for mass, once you're off cycle, you lose most of it, and a lot of it is water. That's my argument. I want to see someone who looks DYEL, go through a cycle and looks like say, tiny trip. There's a good natty physique albeit small.

>>42527042
derailed the thread pretty powerfully.

I'm going to go ahead and say that natty strength training isn't a waste of time and is actually really rewarding, but natty BBing is a bit of a joke.

>>42526598
I agree that it is inherently unhealthy, but you don't necessarily need to stay cruising to maintain the muscle. Unless you're a total mass monster it's actually to your benefit. You produce new muscle cells that you can keep once off a dose.

That said, it will take more effort to maintain than if cruising on test, but even off test you have the benefit of momentum making it easier.

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>>42527042

well here's six years of natty lifting. Not that great but I lost 65KG of fat. 6'1 97KG.

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>>42526396
Homie, steroids have a permanent POSTIVE effect on your muscles. If you juice once you will forever be a cut above natty so long as you continue to lift. I'm not exactly sure what it is but your muscles develope some enzyme or something that permanently remain in your muscle tissue. I never juiced before but the people iv talked to who have done it once in their life are always significantly more ascetic at the least

>>42527109
Do you have any non-pumped, non instagram filtered photos?

Looking good as a natty with a pump and gym lighting isn't hard. It's a male fat chick selfie.

I'm skeptical that you weigh 97kg.

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>>42526232
There's always a price to pay.

>>42526244
>>42526259
You faggots really need to learn how to read. He did finish his sentence he just didn't use any commas and he forgot to end with a question mark. He's shit at grammars but you two are still shit at reading.

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>>42527163

sure, here's me bulked a little. Roast away, I'm looking for a discussion, not a "you're a retard" "I don't believe you" bullshit spiel.

>>42526251
Then why even lift at all?

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>>42527163

Here's a fun little, game, spot the roiders. I hope people can start to see the difference. You can't just go and order whatevethefuck off of some dark net market and expect to look good. It's just not on the cards, it's just hard work and training for strength. Sorry roiders.

>>42526244
>>42526259
Read it REALLY SLOWLY and you might find that you mixed up the order of "he" and "was"

>>42527244
Athlean may have done it ONCE IN THE PAST but he definitely does not rood currently

>>42527081
You won't keep any if your natural test is shut down. It's a roll of the dice, pure genetic lottery as to whether your testicles will ever work again. Also, psychologically you will be depressed as fuck with natty shit gains after your cycle, only increases your chances of never coming off.

Also severe acne is pretty horrible no matter how large you are.
>inb4 Accutane
Acne scars are not aestheic either. Neither is committing suicide from depression.

>ITT DYEL's that don't pin

>>42527312

Yep, I agree and he has the physique that looks natty. If you train for more than 5-8 years you can get to the buff dudes physique, I have experienced it personally and have seen it in others. So many DYELS find comfort in the fact that they don't have to try if they say any ideal is attained unnaturally. Guy in the red shirt roids, the two fat tattooed dudes roid. Just look at their insertions, it's bloated. Their triceps blow up all the way around their rear delt. It's just water retention, it looks gross and it's shit. Red shirt looks shit, he would look so much better without juice as he has somewhat of a baseline physique.

>>42527331
Your wrong. If you have not reach your physical natural limitations, roids WILL push you to it and you will likely hover near your max natty strength so long as you put in the work. Steroids are safe if you do it correctly and responsibly. Doing one cycle a year won't kill you, in fact if your over 35 it's probably more beneficial so long as you keep your eyes open for side effects and get routine blood work done.

>>42527353
Buff dudes FFMI's are higher than Arnie at his prime
You fucking dolt

>>42527216
dude you can tell you have put work in to a physique you can be proud of, but don't delude yourself that you are seid level. Sure maybe in 10 years of bulk and cut, but you're in your 30s by then.

>>42527376

Never claimed that I was in anybody's level. I just have A physique that illustrates the effort natty lifting produces. There is no delusion here and if there is please elucidate anything that I may be making errors on. The fact is fat free mass is mass that is not fat. I drank a gallon of water and that's fat free mass, it doesn't mean anything.

Help me understand this a little more. How much strength is retained after a cycle?

can someone show me some before and after pics?

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>>42527353
>distended gut despite with visible abs

>>42527216
thats not you faggot

>This pathetic attempt at a "discussion"
Man /fit/ really went off the deep end huh

I'm just not sure I want to commit to something that can cause skin problems, hormone problems, hair loss etc, not to mention all the money you have to spend. Plus, I'd probably find it extremely hard to stop roiding once I'd started.

I think huge muscles in a young man looks shit anyway. Once you're in your 30s, having a Heracles body looks cool. Before that brad pitt in fight club is optimal for aesthetics and girls

>>42527470

ok.jpg

I get my views on roids are radical to what PLG or whatever the fuck is on here state. I'm all for doing what you do to your own body but education is extremely important. Science aims to find the most objective truth to what is happening when people put this in their bodies for a certain amount of time and then stop it. You have to be careful when you hear people on roids tell you the benefits because there is a lot of cognitive dissonance. Statistics and more valid and reliable measures eliminate human error so we can understand what happens. From a purely qualitative observation I have yet to see people accrue a sustainable physique from steroids without other noise occurring such as a pr-established physique. In favour of roids, i am inclined to agree the dangerous aspects are grossly emphasised and have become a common heuristic, but the fact is they don't do much in the way of making you look that great. If they did then there would be a lot of top-notch physiques everywhere, there isn't.

>>42527365
Never said they weren't relatively safe, my point is that you're going to have to deal with hormone problems for the rest of your life.
Also, there isn't like a magical post card you get when you're at your natty limit. A dyel cycling will never know when that limit is until they stop and have to lose the muscle. Coming off cyle is usually accompanied by test shutdown until PCT can (hopefully) get your natural going again. The reality is that your body will never make as much testosterone as it once did and youre natty limit will be lowered.

You want to keep those gains, you've got to get them the hard way: natty as the day you were born.

I've got nothing against TRT though (I will be taking advantage of that once my natural test plummets around 40) because you're doing that with the expectation that you cannot come off.

>>42527331
You don't know what you're talking about.
Cycling is based on keeping mass after you're on.
Please shut the fuck up about things you're clueless about.

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>>42527244
Spot the roider lol

Also
> dark net market
Yeah you don't know shit

>>42527785

Finally, someone with some frickin' common sense.

Natty truly is the way. I wish people saw lifting as an intrinsic benefit.

>>42527765
but the fact is they don't do much in the way of making you look that great. If they did then there would be a lot of top-notch physiques everywhere, there isn't.
Retarded. There are top notch physiques everywhere. The main reason for lack of Olympia proportions is genetics.

>>42527821
>Cycling is based on keeping mass after you're on
Whats your point, Mr. Steroid expert?

>>42527886
Are you really unironically this stupid?

>>42527898
The problem is that you are not very articulate, my friend.

>>42527821
>>42527898
Ahh I see your upset I used the word "cycle" instead of "blast" or something else. Good on you to catch that fatal error, only an experienced steroid user would spot something like that.

>>42527821
>>42527898
>Someone disagreed with me so I'm feigning incredulity because "wow just wow" is a thuper funny and edgy response in 2017

Look at Rock's bideltoid width in that pic. He's a genetic freak.

Whats a nigger gon' do if he's Samoan?

>>42526897
Very interesting take...I'm inclined to agree

>>42526180
>and NO preaching from people who is against roids i dont want to hear about your shit

it sounds like you've already made up your mind about roids and just want people here to validate it

>>42526897
That's not even what we were discussing.

I agree with you, most people without a training base of knowledge and experience will end up looking like shit.
I even agree that it's a mental illness for some.

My point from the start was roiding at any stage will give you permanent muscle gains.

>>42528570
>roiding at any stage will give you permanent muscle gains.

That's so wrong It's fucking retarded.
Did you forget to add a "not" in there or something?

>>42528586
Tell me about the mechanism through which muscles grow.

>>42526180
yes it is, i did a cycle to see how mo body would react, 400mg of test a week for 10 weeks and 5 weeks of oxandrolone, 40mg/day.
pros:
>gained lean 8kg in two months, more than i would gain in one year natty
>my lifts went up by at least 30% without even trying that much
>my energy on workouts were out of this world, i could do my 1rm on bench then go to incline and do my 1rm then do weighted dips, mucle can handle much more on roids
>after a heavy workout i would get sore for only couple hours on the next day
>my libido was ultra high, dick was insanely hard and also lasted longer in bed
>balls didn't shrinked as much as i thought they would
>not a single hair lost
cons:
>couple pimples on my shoulders and back after the cycle but one month later they're all gone
>tcp is a pain in the ass because you can't miss one day (i did and started feeling my niples sensitive from the aromatization)
>enanthate hurt like a motherfucker to pin and gets sore for at least 4 days (shitty lab test)
>can't drink
>have to get blood test done at least 4 times, one before starting, one during, another 15 days after stopping and another one month after

>>42528614
We don't actually know how muscles grow. Lot of good guesses.
But nothing definitive.
Now, you tell me how you will be able to maintain the muscle that you gained from steroids without the extra testosterone.

I'm genuinely curious.

>>42528668
Fiber growth doesn't get reverted. You lose the glycogen when coming off, and lots of it if you don't work to maintain it.
But the actual muscle mass is preserved.

That's why old bodybuilders still look way bigger than the average person of the same age.

Also I think you are overestimating how important testosterone is for the maintenance of muscle mass.
There are plenty of people with low test with significant amounts of muscle.

>>42528703
>But the actual muscle mass is preserved.
No it's fucking not.
Most of it's gone, you can't indefinitely maintain muscle mass unless you train all of the time and have enough test to maintain it or build it again after the excess external test is gone leaving you with lowered test production and nothing but muscle memory that can't be fully utilized because your test levels are lower.

By the way, most of those old bodybuilders are on trt doses.

>There are plenty of people with low test with significant amounts of muscle.
O Rly?
Then why take steroids if you can build and maintain muscle without it even if you have low T?

>>42528792
>trt doses
How is this an argument? Those are not high doses.

>Then why take steroids if you can build and maintain muscle without it even if you have low T?

Time, and going past your natty limit. Which you CAN permanently surpass.

>>42528792
>most of it is gone
unless you're as big as arnold or someone as big as him you're not losing most of your gains, i used to have 15' arms before cycling for three months, i went to 16.5' arms and now, 4 months later i'm still at the same size and strength as i was on cycle, but a little less lean

Where do you buy roids?

>>42528871
google sold them to me

>>42528792
>Then why take steroids if you can build and maintain muscle without it even if you have low T?
to achieve lets say Connor murphy physique natty you'd need 10 years training and eating right while not drinking, not eating junk food
while on steroids you could do it with one year of blast and cruise while drinking and eating shit (you'd lose about 5 years of your life spam though)

These arguments are all stupid. I know personally so many people who have lifted without roids for years and they look huge and great. I am not quite ripped but I have lean abs and nice arms and girls still go wild for it.

Roids work, duh, but with all the side effects and shit how is it worth it? It's just for the lazy and insecure. Who wants to look like they are on riods anyway? That body is appealing only to other roidbro faggots and the worst type of women (usually old too)

Roidbros are hilarious. I pity them.

So my test level is 320 ng/dL. How do I convince a doctor to get me that sweet medical test to boost me to like 800 ng/dL?

>>42528910
>lifted without roids for years
>look huge and great
sweetie...

>>42528871

Go to leddit for sauce.

love how everyone in here is just lumping all performance enhancers together as "steroids." there's like 10 different main types that dudes at your gym could be on, all with slightly different side effects and post cycle results.

>>42528792
Im sure you know it depends on what compounds your taking because im sure you are well versed in estrogen conversion in anabolics. When you drop some compounds from your cycle, the ones that convert to estrogen, you drop a fuck load of water weight.

My first cycle I did deca/test/dianabol.8/10/4 weeks. Went from 183 to 205 in the first 4 weeks and at the end of the cycle cleaned up my gains and by week 10 was 210. Im off of everything, leaner, stronger, and my blood work says my test is 247

>>42528930
Just ask him, can't hurt. You can easily find a doctor to say yes. My brother was given it at 347ng/dl and me at 385. Somebody will want to make money off you.

>>42528910
I consider myself lucky and I don't get any of the major 3 side effects. DHT, acne or gyno.

Everybody says your heart enlarges but all professional athletes have significantly larger hearts than those who don't train. The heart is the one muscle in the body that when it experiences hypertrophy the size will never go back down.
Everything you said about roid bros is entirely wrong. Women are primly wired to be attracted to men with high testosterone (naturally high 1000ng/dl).

>>42528832
>>42528838
>>42528896
>>42528986
You don't maintain muscle that's been built from gear.
You just don't.
That's how it is. I'm sorry.

>>42529253
You do, from first hand experience you are wrong.
Give me a source that says every pound of muscle you build on gear doesn't stay.
If you could avoid linking a mashable or buzzfeed article I would be impressed.

>>42529283
You litterally have to prove your case to me and everyone here.
Every single solitary reputable person who is upfront about their gear usage and gear overall outright states no bullshit, no mincinng of words, that you will not maintain the muscle mass gained from steroid use.

You will at best, if you are DAMNED LUCKY be able to maintain a bit if you train your ass off and your natural test levels aren't fucked.

But if you had the will power and test and genetics to get to your maintainable natural peak in the first place you probably wouldn't have hopped on at all.

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it's really not. contrary to what you may believe, roiders don't appeal to most women. It's "too much" according to them.
im natty and i like the way i look. i have a few different sexual partners and get compliments in my appearance. im pretty happy with the way things are.
>mfw every time i go out

>>42529333
please, stop shitposting about something you know nothing at all.
most roid users lose muscle because they stop lifting as seriously as they did before
i personaly did couple cycles of test+tren+var and mantained most of the mass i gained, like, 90% of what i gained i still have, i'm not as lean, but i'm just as strong as when i roided with the same size
i have friends that roided for years, stopped with proper pct and still look the same after months, they still lift and eat well

>>42529407
you don't roid and look like a bodybuilder, it takes years of roids to achieve that too much look, also girls tell you that because you're not that much, i'm a gym rat, have a supplement store and 17" arms, my life goes arround lifting and selling supplements, i roid and girls aproach me a lot

I am a hobby lifter and dont compete. Its just really fun to break a record. I turned to roids, mainly tbol , when ive been stuck on all 3 PL lifts for almost 2 years. I gained a significant amount of power within weeks.

The problem is when i stop i go back to where i started(luckily and not lower). I havnt been able to retain any gains and you crash fast. I did 3 cycles and each time i went up to ky roid pr and then crashed to my natty record.

And lastly theres this evil presence that is whispering in your ear to up the dose up the dose. More drugs more strength.

I think everyone should get a trial period of roids after lifting close to 10yrs just to experience it. Clearly its not worth it, at least if lifting is a hobby for you or supplement for work.

>>42529440
well that's cool man. im not ripping on other people's lifestyles and goals. im only justifying my own. i guess my first line is pretty rude in retrospect. if you're content with the way things are, then good for you.

>>42529421
bless your heart. i kept all my strength but lost a few pounds.
>>42529407
glad your happy bud. I gotta say that if most of the dumb fucks on a fit board cant tell who's natty and who's not, a girl sure as fuck won't be able to tell.

>>42529421
You're full of shit.

>>42528910
A lot of people who are on roids lie about roids because of the public stigma associated with it. The sad thing is, MANY people do it. Many people who shouldn't be doing it, are doing it. Women are doing it too for that shortcut to a great ass but its more hush-hush.

Being on roids is an express train to swolesville and people are willing to take the risks because hypermasculinity and roided up freaks is whats being fed down everyone's throats and they're willing to kick the ball down the line when it comes to adverse health effects.

>>42529407
desu I think the excessive vascularity is what turns people off, not big muscles.

>>42529447
Pretty sure all power lifters at high level blast and cruise now a days. I don't know much about tbol but deca and anadrol should be your bread a butter.

>>42529524
its not as much about the stigma, its just because no one knows shit about it. on a scary level. its like weed in the 1930s.

>>42529447
This is the most level-headed response in this entire thread.

To answer OP's question. It really depends on what your goals are. If you want to be a bodybuilder or super strong and don't care about the side effects, then its probably a waste to be natty. If you just want to reach your body's natural limit, then don't take that shit.

I might do what >>42529447 did, maybe consider it after a decade. But most likely I'll probably be natty for the rest of my life and toy with the idea once I'm in my mid 60s and my natural test levels drop.

our bodies are not meant to keep a large muscle mass therefore you will loose a good amount if you don't train, if you're pharmaceutical enhanced then you'll loose that too. there is a reason bb retire after they can't win a contest or in general, anyone knows that steroid is harmful even in small amounts.

op the main question is, are you going to make a revenue from injecting unnatural testosterone? if not what's the point of it?

i know it's tempting to take them but what can i do?

>>42526180
Roids ain't bad to use if you know what you are doing. However, look at most of the lifters from the golden age, and especially look at them from the 90s - too much and you turn into a Piana Vegetable. Even Arnold had open heart surgery. Plenty of roiders have died from liver or heart disease, so use caution.

>>42529253

dude stop thinking steroids are some black magic forbidden shit. It's just testosterone. Testosterone, even without lifting, builds muscle. This is why untrained men are stronger than untrained women. When you use steroids you build muscle regardless if you lift or not. When you get off, your testosterone goes back down to your natural levels and your muscle mass will go down enough to match your "natural limit", or what your testosterone supports. I don't know why this is so complicated to you, muscle is 85% hormones

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>tfw big and strong enough naturally that people think you do roids
Not the smart ones obviously, but the fucking NYRfags and dumbass old men, it's pretty funny.

OP using is fine, it's MUCH quicker than natural lifting but side effects obviously. I've lifted for 8 years, it's a long time, but I'm stronger or as strong as some dudes that are clearly using. Kinda good feelio to be benching/military pressing more than dudes that look ninja turtles, but to each his own.

TL;DR: If you LOVE lifting, natural lifting can be fun even if progress is very slow later on, and if you want just a quicker method regardless of consequences to meet fitness/strength goals use roids.

>>42529592
>its just because no one knows shit about it

No, it's because its seen as cheating. People see taking steroids as "breaking the rules" because they're going beyond what their bodies are capable of to get a competitive edge. It's a very stupid argument for multiple reasons but it does contain one kernel of truth.

Professional sports have become more or less an arms race of who can soup up their athletes with better shit and not get caught. At some point it stops being about individual athlete ability and more about payrolls and $$$. (and also disregarding health)

>>42529670
I'm not saying that test is evil dark magic or whatever bullshit you're saying.

But what you're saying is on every level fundamentally fucking wrong. And every single solitary fucking person who's even moderately in the know will tell you that you're either fucking retarded or a lying shill who's trying to get people on or one of those deluded fucks who believe the "I'm half natural because I can maintain all of my gains when off" lie.

>>42529670
The study were they took steroids and gained muscle only showed the result for some weeks.in the long run the guy who lifts would surpass, and the guy on steroids would stop gaining muscle mass.

>>42529690
Well for myself I am not trying to win anything or take anything from anyone.
Just catching STDs at edm shows.

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How are roiders any better than fat people?
>both are delusional about what an attractive body is
>both are likely to have high blood-pressure, cholesterol, increased risk of CVD
>both ignore evidence-based medical advice
>both are short-sighted
>both entail a lazy, instant-gratification mindset
>both have distorted definition of health
>both insulate themselves in their echo-chambers

Also, reminder that using steroids will permanently lower your own testosterone production, even with "proper" PCT.

>>42530298
>Also, reminder that using steroids will permanently lower your own testosterone production, even with "proper" PCT.

Is this true? I've only seen studies that connected lower natty test with steroid use, but they had no pre cycle data.
What if people with low test resort to steroids much more?

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>>42530298
http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0161208

>Conclusions
>Former AAS abusers exhibited significantly lower plasma testosterone levels and higher frequencies of symptoms suggestive of hypogonadism than healthy control participants years after AAS cessation. Current AAS abusers exhibited severely decreased AMH and inhibin B indicative of impaired spermatogenesis.

>>42530298
>pin hcg while on a cycle
wow ezpz

>>42527244
>spot the roider

all of them are roiders lel bar maybe (a very doubtful maybe) athleanx

>>42526396
LOLOLOLOL

depends on your goal? Do you want to be a huge Hulk alike monster? Then yes, you NEED roids to achieve that.
Do you want to look better than average, have fun and be healthy? Then no, actually go do it now

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>>42526180
i almost did a cycle and feel great I did not hop on when i was not even pretending to be training.

I think we can all accept people roid because they are insecure, it is like plastic surgery, in photos you look great but people look at you and laugh because you wear your insecurity as a literal meat shell.

I am glad I spent the time on my mental health. Now i am happy and work towards my goals in a healthy way with a fully functioning penis.

>>42527370
Lol okay

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>>42526180
it depends on what you want out of lifting desu. do you want the satisfaction of setting a goal for yourself and achieving it? or do you want the payoff right away? neither is bad, some people have more fun cheating on vidya and some people like the feeling of having finished it all by themselves

>>42526180
The longer you spend natural, the more you're going to get out of roids once you start taking them. The "natty limit" meme is somewhat true

>>42531522
This

I'm aware that it's nothing more than adding some extra chemicals, but I'd feel like it wasn't my accomplishments. Maybe I'm retarded for choosing a difficult route over an easy one, but the hard work involved is almost the reason I lift.