> try veganism for 6 months > diet is mostly rice, beans,

>>42487942
HOLY FUCK VEGANS BTFO'd

>>42487947
Nothing new here.

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vegans are retarded college kids practicing liberal food religion

>>42487942
you forgot the roids you dip sauce

>is completely retarded and also a faggot
>tries to do something requiring considerable use of frontal cortex despite being completely retarded
>fails
>blames everything but himself

not even vegan but did you even try?
>diet is mostly rice, beans, coconut milk, soy protein powder, multivitamin
you are supposed to mix it up
> also lost strength, joints felt like shit, hair got flat and brittle, sex drive tanked, got gingivitis no matter how much I brushed my teeth, always tired, took a shitload of caffeine
these are all symptoms of a very poorly planned diet. based on these your diet was lacking in many essential nutrients. perhaps you should try again after taking a nutrition class at your local community college

>>42487942
Cool made up story bro.

>>42488362
What nutrients was I lacking? If I'm so stupid, it must be easy for you to rattle it off the top of your head.

FYI I ate 200g protein and sufficient fat/calories.

> I don't know anything about nutrition, and I tried half-assing a diet without doing any research
> It didn't go well
> It must be the diet's fault

>>42488583
see
>>42488535

Also I kept cronometer logs of what I ate to make sure I was hitting all the vitamins etc. I supplemented.

I made sure to hit 200g protein, >50g fat and >2000 cal.

How did I half ass it exactly and what exactly did I not know about nutrition?

>>42488535
>gingivitis
vitamin C
>brittle hair
biotin, vitamin C, many minerals/metal ions
>lethargy
definitely iron. if you can't get oxygen to things that need to burn energy you either won't burn it or wont burn it quickly
>shit joints
fuck if I know, though probably something that is critically important to maintenance of cartilage
>200g protein/day
way too much unless you recently underwent major invasive surgery, suffered massive blood loss, suffered 3rd degree burns, or you legit weigh 200kg

if your diet was truly mostly rice, beans, coconut milk, soy protein powder and multivitamins I can see why. you should have varied what kinds of beans you ate, eaten brown rice if palatable, mixed in fruits, vegetables, and dark leafy greens, and nuts and legumes. nuts and legumes are excellent sources of essential fats, fiber, some minerals, and calories in general. dark leafy greens have all kinds of vitamins and minerals, though they are bitter. fruits are delicious and also have all kinds of vitamins and minerals. with all of this variety is key. don't eat the same shit day in and day out. eat all kinds of leaves, fruits, vegetables, nuts, and legumes: not just your favorites. multivitamins are honestly shit and do fuck all

>>42487942
OP I did the same thing. My fiancee has been vegan for years and it 10x healthier and more fit than me. Figured there must be something to it.

Wrong, had the exact same experience as you. Back to chicken and rice. How she stays so healthy is a mystery to me...maybe because she's 5'3 and 110 pounds.

>>42488608
> vit C
I took 1000mg capsules every other day

> iron
I took prenatal vitamins which have 160% RDA.

> Vary the beans
I did. Lentils, black beans, chickpeas etc.

> Mix in fruits/vegetables
I did. I chopped up at least 2 vegetables into my food daily and tried to vary it.

> Fruit
I did eat it as snacks. Often bananas, mangos, pears, blueberries.

So what now? How is this my fault exactly? Did I do it wrong, or does the diet just inherently suck?

>>42488637
> diet is mostly rice, beans, coconut milk, soy protein powder, multivitamin
so what am I to make of this?

>all the supplements
that's where you went wrong imo. there is effectively zero regulation concerning dietary supplements. do not take them

where are the nuts and legumes?
where are the dark leafy greens? these are a good source of iron
where are the tart citrus fruit like apples, oranges, and grapefruit? this would be much better than taking a 1g vitamin C supplement every other day. a better use of that supplement would be 500mg morning and evening as you will promptly piss out any excess vitamin C and any other water soluble nutrients
which vegetables did you use?

the nice thing about including animal flesh in your diet is that a healthy animal has everything it needs in it to stay alive for a few days. we are also animals, so you can see why including some meat in you diet can help to round out your nutrient intake

imo relying on a cronometer pr any sort of app is dubious because it cannot take into account any idiosyncrasies of your metabolism. the best way would be to consult a dietitian, but that could be expensive

I'll recommend the nutrition class at community college because it is very informative and easy. I learned that many people try veganism and have the same experience as you. it isn't easy. perhaps you should consult>>42488631's fiance

>>42488773
>legumes
These are otherwise known as "beans"

>tart fruits
Eh, I ate mangos.

>vegetables
Many of them. Lots of bell peppers, broccoli, cauliflower, carrots, tomatoes,

> the nice thing about including animal flesh in your diet is that a healthy animal has everything it needs in it to stay alive for a few days. we are also animals, so you can see why including some meat in you diet can help to round out your nutrient intake

Isn't that the whole point of the thread I just made, that it's a lot easier to stay healthy just eating some fucking meat?

> nutrition class

...And what makes you think I do not understand basic concepts like macros/micros?

Bah, this forum is such a shit hole. I have a fucking medical doctorate, what am I doing talking to you goons about this shit? I dunno, I guess sometimes I hope there is a bright mind among you able to interpret some N=1 data, but it's really setting myself for disappointment.

>>42488853
nuts =/= legumes. I didn't say nuts or legumes: you would need both
still no leafy greens mentioned
I would have thrown in some potato for carbs but beans are a good source too

>And what makes you think I do not understand basic concepts like macros/micros
>thinks 200g protein/day is good
>takes multivitamins

having a medical degree has nothing to do with your knowledge of foods and nutrition. for instance, you didn't know that eating 200g/day of protein was way too much. you only need 1g/kg body mass. that's why I don't think you know much about nutrition. my mom is an obstetritian and gynecologist. doesn't mean she is an expert on what to eat. you are an expert in your field of study and nothing else. normally people who have graduate degrees realize this but maybe not you

the guy who taught my nutrition class was a dietitian and epidemiologist. he also teaches grad school. his favorite class is one where he teaches people how to critically read scholarly literature, which to me sounds excruciating. regardless, teachers generally have an excellent grasp on what they are teaching and if you have doubts you can consult your textbook or even look up the primary sources for yourself if you so desire. while I am registered for classes I can get some scientific journals through my student account

it isn't veganism's fault you couldn't make it work: the blame lies entirely with you. I guess you just needed to be mad. I tried my best to see where you went wrong and in my opinion it was use of supplements and lack of leafy greens (kale, baby spinach, romaine lettuce) and nuts. maybe some more tart fruit, too because mangoes don't taste very tart to me. I already know I don't want to put in the work to make veganism work for me and am perfectly ok with eating dead animals. my suitemate in college was vegan and seemed more or less ok, though he was far from an athlete so it's hard for me to say. was gonna type more but comment too long

gg

>>42488981
Yeah but you never found anything majorly wrong with my diet.

For all your puff, you never put your finger on what was not done correctly.

Eating "too much" protein would not be the cause of my various symptoms, and it certainly wouldn't cause me to lose gains. Whether or not your statement about it being "too much" is even true depends on which sources you read.

>>42488981
>you only need 1g/kg body mass.
Those numbers are useful only for people that don't do any sports, specially if we are talking about weightlifting for hypertrophy or strength, you need more protein.

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>>42489015

We don't know what you fucking ate, you retard. Go larp somewhere else you fucking healthlet.

>>42489052
What is not clear?

> rice
> beans & various legumes
> vegetables of various types
> fruit of various types
> protein powder
> coconut milk & occasional avocados
> various vitamin supplements

>>42487942
Here are 10 things you can expect when switching to a vegan diet:

1. You energy levels will increase
2. Your palate will improve and you'll begin to taste and therefore appreciate more subtle flavors
3. Along with #2, your tolerance for higher heat levels in food will increase. Stock up on hot sauce.
4. Your shit volume will increase markedly
5. Your scent will become more masculine
6. Both the frequency and violence of your farts will increase a shocking amount
7. Your food expense will decrease and you will find yourself with more disposable income
8. Rock hard erections because no ED
9. Potatoes really aren't very good, except sweet potatoes are ok
10. Outliving all of your animal product eating friends is a lonely prospect, so join a vegan support group

>>42488981
I couldn't read past the "hurr 200 grams of protein too much", it pained me to read it

>>42489052
>>42489116
See... this really says a lot. This is basically what's wrong with this shithole.

If you encounter something that goes beyond the info in the sticky, you get called a retard for having the problem by people with no understanding of the problem or real ability to solve the problem.

It's almost like this whole board is nothing but 22 year old imbeciles or something

>>42489142
Then why did I experience the opposite of a lot of those?

>>42489116
Here is a brief rundown of what I ate. I also added chia seeds, which I neglected to list.

>>42489161
Why do some people drink their cars into lakes? Because they are dumb motherfuckers.

>>42489194
So are you saying I am dumb and deserved to suffer symptoms on my version of veganism?

Okay, well what did I do wrong?

Why can nobody tell me? They just say "U R DUM" over and over. It's almost like nobody knows their ass from a hole in the ground, but is triggered when they realize it.

>>42489308
An alternative view is that no one online can possibly diagnose exactly what/how you fucked up. Neither do any of us owe you some rigorous analysis of the random lists you post.

Following a vegan diet is something millions or people do successfully for months and years on end, experiencing none of the conditions you cite. What is more likely: that all of them are lying, or that you are just an imbecile?

>>42489359
Okay, so ask me further questions. Probe.

You calling me an imbecile is just a simple way for you to try to appear superior without actually demonstrating any knowledge.

I have a 200 lb overhead press and a 405 squat. Should I go into peoples' threads about increasing each lift and just tell them many people can easily lift more than them and they are just stupid?

>>42489377
>>42489359

Well?

Come on bro, let's have it. I want to hear this.

I mean, what in the fuck are we even doing? This is a fitness board, to discuss fitness and nutrition. Discuss fucking fitness and nutrition.

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>>42489116

What do you think is informative about this list?

I've been a vegan for 15 years. Have never touched protein powder or vitamin supplements other than B12 and D3. I've had zero problems.

Where are the leafy greens in your diet? Collards, Kale, Spinach, arugula, parsley, mint, chard - are all nutritional powerhouses that should be a staple in every diet.

Where's your beets? sweet potatoes? Where's your winter squash and melons?

Where's your oats? Where's your quinoa? Your barley? Your bulgur?

Where's your berries? Where's your amla?

Where's your hibiscus? Your green tea, Your black tea, your coffee?

Where's your unsweetened cocoa powder? Your curcumin?

Why is there so much synthetic bullshit in your diet when you have fucking zero variety listed? You've given zero fucking information, and you want someone to fucking tell you what went wrong? Yeah, you're lying about going vegan- and you're fucking retarded.

>>42489693
Post a pic of yourself. Would bet my left nut you aren't even 20 or over 60kg in body weight.

>>42488592
>I made sure to hit 200g protein, >50g fat and >2000 cal.
fucking how hard of a cut are you on m8?

>>42487942
not vegan but I highly suspect that you might have fucked it up.

>>42490058
>>42489693
they never do

it took celery nigger 7 years of roiding to look the way he does now. what do you think this nerd looks like?

>>42489377
>>42489474
Not him, but why should he "probe", as you say? You're the one that's asking what you did wrong, and the others have already told you that you're missing a bunch of crap from your diet. It doesn't really fall on anyone else except you to "probe" further if you're the one who wants an answer so badly.

>>42489693
>It's incumbent on you to explain how having those things in my diet would change anything.

>>42491247
But nobody can or will explain WHAT exactly I am missing, how it leads to the symptoms I experienced, or what I could've done better.

So far the best answer was this dipshit >>42489693

but all he did was post a random list of foods and ask why I am not eating them, with no explanation of how eating them would've alleviated my symptoms (i.e. what I was deficient in).

I mean how do I know he isn't just posting random lists of plant foods and asking me why I didn't eat them?

> Guys I did veganism and my teeth fell out

> Oh yeah??? Well y didntt u eat STRAWBERRIES???

>>42488362
>very poorly planned diet
>diet lacking in many essential nutrients
What like veganism?

Why are all vegans skinny nu-male liberals?

>>42487942

By what means would the diet have caused that? Also, were vegetables not included or did you just forget to list them?

>>42491804

Why are all non-vegans morbidly obese redneck conservatives?

>>42491829
So 99% of the world is obese and redneck? You're the weird one kid

>>42491851

The more meat a country eats, the more obese it is.

>>42489142
vegan diet is health-

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2017/aug/11/why-we-fell-for-clean-eating

>>42490992
>>2000 cal.
>cut

what? are you 300lbs or something?

>>42488608
>gingivitis caused by vitamin c deficiency
you're legit retarded, do you know how little vitamin C you have to eat to get gingivitis?
he'd have to be living on hard tack for 3 months

>>42487942
>diet is mostly rice, beans, coconut milk, soy protein powder, multivitamin

If 3/5 of the main components of your diet are complete fucking memes (coconut milk, protein powder, multivitamin) then you are a fucking idiot.

Eat some god damn real fucking food. VEGETABLES, FRUITS, NUTS and GRAINS.

>>42488637
If you think supplements are suitable dietary replacements for vitamins from real food then you have been severely jewed by the supplement industry.

>>42491889
You're forgetting fish and meat

>>42489116
>>42488637

You took extra vitamins/minerals and protein powder to make sure you got enough of everything, but you still had those symptoms? Normally when someone claims a vegan diet causes health problems they say it's deficient in nutrients but you can't say that in this case. Either there's an unknown factor unrelated to nutrition or it's in your head.

>>42491863

>a raw food diet that also excludes most vegan foods is representative of vegan diets

Strawman. That's like critizing meat-inclusive diets based on people who eat 100% raw meat diets thinking it's good for them.

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>>42487942
Veganism also decreases cognition and maes one's mood eratic. It's very clear to see in long time vegans how easily triggered(both in the classic and modern sense) and jumpy they are.
Also most don't work in mentally or phisically demanding jobs.
And some fucknuts try to bring the fact that in some religion veganism was practiced. Well in Orthodox Christianity there are periods of the year- usually short besides the long fast b4 Easter- where one goes "vegan" but also excludes oil,wine and ideally sex. It's supposed to be a time of reflection and detachment from the phisicall needs of the body but profane idiots see it as a "cleanse"

>>42491882

maybe hes a confederate soldier you fucking ableist

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Friendly reminder that we are being attacked by vegans with constant shilling and veganposting

>>42491966

mindblowing observation

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>>42491979
for you

>tfw all I eat is beef, chicken, broccoli, rice and organ meats
>maybe sometimes a pasta or some stir fry
>haven't had a day with no meat for years (around a pound a day I eat) longer than I can remember
>a vegan day scares me
who else? It seems lethal to my gains

>>42491942

What's that based on?

>>42487942

All vegans need to be slaughtered like the herbivores that they are.

Feels good being (trans-)vegan. Can eat anything I want and still say you're vegan.

>>42491819
>>42489116

>>42487942
Im trying out veganism too. What were those proteins you could only get in meat btw? I know vegans have to take special care to make sure they get enough of those proteins that are difficult to get without meat.

>>42488637
Having above RDA vitamins can cause lots of problems too btw. Too much vitamin A can actually weaken bones

>>42487942
You're probably lying about this whole story and I'm not vegan but paleo is without doubt the biggest meme diet in existance.

>>42492316
I'm not lying about shit. A diet of meat+vegetables+token potatoes fixed me right up.

>>42491804
Yeah because we all know people that use the term "nu-male" are likely to be socially well adjusted and the pinnacle of human physicality.

Even "numales" are above 4chan alt-right shut ins in the social hierarchy.

>>42492357
Is that why charlottesville declared a state of emergency over us, because we have no power in real life?

>>42492008
Thre's a theory that large omega 3 consumption helped accelerate brain evolution in humans. Most early civilizations were around the Mediterranean which evem today after millenia of heavy human population is still rich in seafood ,imagine what the fish quantity and biodiversity was like 10-15k years ago.
It's why veganism is mainly a mental disease,you can't argue against the consumption of let's say mussels on an ethical/health/enviromental level. They really don't have a brain and do not feel pain,barely an animal,seafood has by weight the highest concentration of micro/macronutrients a lot of which are hard to come by even in an carnivorous diet and mussel farming actually improves the enviroment around it by cleaning the area of excess algae. They are even used to decontaminate heavily poluted waters around harbours and shipyards

>>42492375
/pol/ is 99% virgins with no friends that are ugly, fat/skinny and underemployed/educated. I've never met someone with meme SJW beliefs IRL and all the liberals I know at least have gfs, friends and their shit together.

The alt-right literally consists of guys at the very bottom of the genetic and social totem pole LARPing as aryan ubermensche because they (at most) lift weights 3 times a week and read a few esoteric fascist books.

That's why women don't want anything to do with the far right. It's the absolute bottom tier of your race.

>>42488583
>>42488362
>having to do intensive research just to follow a diet without losing gains and slowly crumbling
>be surprised when people don't follow said dumbass diet

>>42492471

I even tried to do good research, hit all my macros, even tracked micros and supplemented hard and still got screwed up.

I think it's something inherently unworkable, like getting ripped on calisthenics.

In studies vegan diet is inferior to pescetarian/mediterranean/lactovegetarian anyway.

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>>42489693
>Where's your berries? Where's your amla?
>Where's your hibiscus? Your green tea, Your black tea, your coffee?
>Your barley? Your bulgur?
gr8 b8 m8

>>42490058
This, vegans in this thread post cbt right now

>>42489142
>you'll begin to appreciate subtle flavours
>stock up on hot sauce
Tiptopkek you can't make this shit up

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>>42488981

>>42489693
pic with timestamp skelly

>>42487942
>guy can squat 405
> stupidly goes on diet where his protein needs will not get met since plant protein has lower absorption rate
>unable to recover
>gets over training and deficiency symptoms
Natty strength lifting and vegan diets are not compatible you fucking dweeb. Your biggest evidence is that not a single one of the vegans here will post their body or their lifts.

>>42487942
> never try veganism
> diet is mostly eggs, meat, bacon, tuna, cheese and some bread, pasta and rice like a normal /fit/izen
> see posts in /fit/ about veganism being equal to eating meat for strength and size gains
> get enraged because this has to be shitposting, it goes against my deep rooted but otherwise unfounded beliefs that animal products are inherently beneficial to strength, bodybuilding, health and fitness and literally every single vegan is either anemic and skinny, or made all his gains on meat and is now losing them, or on steroids
> make shitpost thread on /fit/ full of lies to make veganism look bad
> a very low effort one at that, I provide no pictures, not a receipt of a vegan shopping cart, not before and after photos, no blood test result test comparison, not even a low effort fake MFP screenshot
> to get extra (You)s, I make sure to mention how I tried every vegan food, ingredient and recipe possible, tracked calories, "did everything right", and despite all that I claim to have gotten cancer, diabetes, Alzheimer's, Alzheimer's, Alzheimer's, Alzheimer's, ED, ADHD, dlyexsia, autism, osteoporosis, mecame 4'11 and my father left me for my gf
> switch back to meat, cut out grains, borderline keto
> dick grew 12 inches flaccid, height became 7'13, I have a harem, I'm so healthy doctors use my blood for steroids, I strict press Pyrros Dimas' CnJ, Rich Piana asks me for bulking advice, Arnie kissed my chest, Tom Platz asked for my autograph on his quads, Dorian Yates begged me to top him, I turned Matt Kroc gay and Keira Knightley sucks my 12" cock daily
> life is good, vegicucks got mad, I got (You)s
> now on to shitpost about whether ICF, SS or SL is better
> huehuehue

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>>42487942
Keto is the final redpill, anyone who hates on it couldn't do it longer than a month. Once you kick the sugar addiction your body is god mode.

Of course I'm not crazy about the diet. I will cheat when I want to. In fact I stay I in ketosis maybe 7-10 days then I carb load on Friday or Saturday. Repeat. I'm starting to finally see my lower abs, all my life iv never could get them to pop out and iv tried every diet every exercise. This was the only way for it to work for me iv never been happier with my body

>>42494155
Quit posting my gf

>>42491713
Kek

>>42494113
post body with timestamp
It's the one thing vegans never do

>>42494155

Keto was not for me. Deep keto would give me a rash and you can forget about high performance in the gym or sport without carbs.
I switched to eating more like 100g of carbs a day, including some fruit although mostly low GI stuff like sweet potato, alongside my keto diet.
Rash cleared up, energy levels through the roof, much more energy during workouts and still losing fat.
The best bit about it is not having to replace my electrolytes all the time because my body wouldn't hold onto them in keto. Doesn't make sense to me that a 'healthy' diet is one in which vital electrolytes are purged constantly.
100g-150g of good carbs, no grains or refined sugars and plenty of fat has been best for me.

>>42494113
Post cbt cuck

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ITT
>Aushwitz tier vegans trying to tell paleo chads how to live
>Get massively asshurt when they hear that their slow death lifestyle is impractical and rots you alive

What the fuck else is new baka

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>>42488107
>that pic
I can't tell what real and what's satire anymore

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>>42492435

>>42488362
>a nutrition class at your local community college

A nutrition class would endorse eating yogurt, eggs, fish and lean meat. What you meant to say was, "Take a propaganda class conducted by Ginny Messina or one of the other shills I approve of."

>>42488535
>my body defies science
>im a special snowflake

>>42496062
no they wouldnt, try going to one.

>>42487942
>doesn't eat fruits, vegetables, nuts, and seeds
>claims veganism doesn't work

based retard

Go look at any vegan bodybuilder on Youtube.

>>42492398

No, the
>Veganism also decreases cognition and maes one's mood eratic. It's very clear to see in long time vegans how easily triggered(both in the classic and modern sense) and jumpy they are.

What'd you get that from?

>>42491056
Wow, look at these weaklings

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgjGzCfcN-Y
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TyohN1LdFKI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLYoOTtFDqQ

>>42488362
>Meat is murder
>If you eat meat, you're not a normal person
>The diet is so complicated you have to take a course in nutrition
Eh, no thanks, I'll take dead chickens over this shit

>>42496520
www.cronometer.com

not hard

>>42487942
U just needed more fat bro

>>42496062
I'm in biology and I've discussed veganism with two of my professors who also teach nutrition. Both of them totally denied that veganism was healthy at all and stated most of what is said in every vegan thread on fit, that vegans are nutritionally deprived and vegan athletes are on so much hgh and steroids that it does not matter what diet that use.

>>42495977
>tell me about the feels, George.

>>42496721
Every major health organization in the world says that vegan diets are perfectly healthy. Some are even saying that they are nutritionally superior to omnivorous diets.

Your biology professors don't know shit.

>>42496860
Then why is there a mountain of evidence to the contrary?

>>42496888
You mean anecdotes?

paleo might be the only thing more dumb than veganism

>>42496903
Why

>>42496888

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0IhZ-R1O8g

>>42496403

You still aren't telling me what I am lacking.

It's probably because you are a hmong and you don't know.

>try veganism for 6 months
>steady diet of rice, lentils, catnip, almond milk (unactivated of course) and tofu
>become more short tempered, sleep a lot less
>unable to focus at work
>start taking dodge muscle cars on joyrides through a crowd of people

>>42494728
Really starting to think paleo is the ultimate chad diet.

brb ripped and healthy without even trying

>>42496893
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23356638
Is vegan diet like communism it works in paper

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>>42487942
>always be yourself
>dressing up as a cartoon wolf

>>42496955
The animals you eat receive B12 supplementation.

>>42497000
Do we inject the fish as well? Does this negate the high rates of b12 deficiency among vegetarians and vegans? I thought your diet was healthy for supermen with 180+ iq minimum?

>>42496912
because what's the point

>>42497029
>Do we inject the fish as well?

Nope, but if you want mercury poisoning and other toxins from the polluted oceans go right ahead and eat all the fish you want.

>Does this negate the high rates of b12 deficiency among vegetarians and vegans?

Nope. I take a B12 supplement. I get everything else from the plant foods I eat.

>>42488608
>200g
This guy was going to be beefy with out the beef
Also he didn't say his bmi, bp, hight, or his weight he was going for

>>42497094
Nothing based in science.
I don't care about you stupid cuck we're speaking from an epidemiological point of view. Also even with regular supplementation you chucks still get deficiencies. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5188422/#!po=22.7941

why do people hate vegans so much

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>>42489693
>throwing out a bunch of names at once will make me sound smart and make him look like a retard
Good strategy champ. You still didn't point out the reasoning for any of those things.

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>>42496916
Yes because Michael greger looks so healthy lol.

He has muscular wasting which is common in vegans.

>>42497144
I don't know man. I'll get my blood tested in a few months and see what my deficiencies are. I'm supplementing 1000mcg a day.

>>42497239
see >>42496494

Guess what happens when you don't lift weights?

>>42497165
Because we're all jelly as fuck of them they're 5% bfat at 220 full of energy immortals.

>>42497047
Explain how it is dumb

>>42496942
I home that activated shit is still just a meme and you're not being serious

>>42497259
How about you realize that literally most people can not do vegan bc it genuinely fucks with them bc these past thousands of year we have been cultivating meat and veggies and not singling out one side and Sorry we all don't roid up like you do. Whaaaa

>>42488362
>he has to buy hundreds of dollars worth of supplements not to get anemic or go skelly mode
>tons of estrogens in vegan food like soy
>its a le superior healthy lifestyle

yeah right faggot
bahahaha

>>42495977
Seems like a pretty normal picture to me, there are young 20 something muslims trans people and they are liable to get either disowned or killed by their family.

>>42492286
Google, if you aren't prepared to look up the most surface level shit "what amino are vegans most likely to be deficient in" then you shouldn't do veganism, it takes a little research and adjusting of the diet.
Eating meat is easy mode because it has a little of almost everything.

>>42497545
> there are young 20 something muslims trans people and they are liable to get either disowned or killed by their family.
good.

>>42496721
Biologists aren't experts on nutrition and many have no experience in biochemistry, talk to people who are experts in those fields.

>>42497690

>Who also teach nutrition

learn to read

>>42498279
I did, teaching a course unrelated to your actual expertise doesn't mean you're an expert, I'm a TA who teaches some intro classes and I am in no right an expert in any of those classes.
If you were in the sciences you might know but scientists are not very educated in fields they didn't study, which should be easy to know.
The guy teaching you nutrition probably has only taken 1-2 classes on it.

Not a vegan or vegetarian but please use logic in your everyday life, appeal to authority is a stupid mistake practically everyone does.
Research online and look what people who have been studying diet science for their whole lives say, the majority approve of veganism if done smartly.

>>42498322
>approval is the same as endorsement

Don't lecture other people about fallacies. You don't even know what words mean.

>>42498403
>approval is the same as endorsement
Of course not, that's why I said they approved, not endorsed.
From what I've heard from people more educated in the field (I'm a chemist so all I know is biochemistry) is that most THINK veganism would better as long as the person was diligent enough to get everything they need.
Curious about it myself, I'm always worried certain nucleic acids might be missing in a vegan diet or something.

Can any anons tell me how they get creatine btw?

>>42498438
>Can any anons tell me how they get creatine btw?

I buy it.

>>42498630
Do they make vegan creatine?
Honestly asking because any source I can think of is animal-based.

>>42498658
Veganism is an eating disorder. Seek professional help.

>>42498740
Not a vegan, just curious if/how they get creatine.

>>42498322
These were real professors with PhD's

>>42499094
Yeah and their PHD's were in biology, not specifically nutrition (unless they were, you haven't told us).
I'm not going to ask a geologist about radioactive isotypes because they will only have surface level knowledge.
Now a analytical geochemist might actually understand it, see.
I'm not trying to argue for veganism or anything, I'm saying that people with PHD's have surface level knowledge of the entire field (chemistry, geology, physics, biology, etc) and great knowledge in only their specific interest.
Not even hating in undergrad I asked a physical chemist surface level questions about sugars and he straight up told me he had no idea.
Being a biologist doesn't mean you know about nutrition.

>>42497283
>hur durr i'm going to eat the same food that cavemen eat
>it has nothing to do with any allergies, deficiencies, or diet issues
>limiting for no reason
>quite literally a marketing gimmick
>cavemen normally lived for less than 20 years

it's not really hard to find out it's a gimmick.

>>42499114
Biology. If they were not qualified to teach nutrition then they wouldn't be teaching the class

>>42487942
>Mostly lacto-ovo-pescatarian
>Rarely eat red meat or fatty meats in general
>Get blood work results
>Fucking high cholesterol
>Like very high

Wtf gives?

down with the vegan agenda

>soy protein powder

Yeah, estrogen will do this kind of damage to your body. Next time you try something, try to learn before.

>>42488362
>heheh Im so smart that's why I need twenty different supplements to keep me almost as healthy as a guy who eats steak

>>42487942
>Friend turned vegan; she's a skinny white girl who did it to "get toned"
>In a discussion claimed that since I'd never tried veganism my ideas weren't as valid as they could be
>Shit, she's right
>Go vegan in diet for two days
>Fucking awful; felt like shit all the time, had to constantly eat gigantic amounts just maintain semblance of enough calories and also needed cheat meals
>Ended up just eating a kangaroo steak on day 2 for lunch

>>42487942
>>42488107
Right wing civic nationalist here and vegan. OP's diet was shit, not the fault of veganism, but his own retardation.
Ever heard of fruits and vegetables? Grains? Nuts and seeds? Obviously you weren't getting in enough micronutrients, or fats. You should have eaten a variety of foods. Instead you were a retard and relied on supplements.

>>42496721
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19562864
> It is the position of the American Dietetic Association that appropriately planned vegetarian diets, including total vegetarian or vegan diets, are healthful, nutritionally adequate, and may provide health benefits in the prevention and treatment of certain diseases. Well-planned vegetarian diets are appropriate for individuals during all stages of the life cycle, including pregnancy, lactation, infancy, childhood, and adolescence, and for athletes.

>>42498658
Yeah vegan creatine exists and is not expensive

>>42500551
>TFW you're retarded enough to think you get affected by plant estrogen but think you're not affected by animal based estrogen found in milk produced by pregnant cows

>>42501537
If veganism is OK for children then explain all of this then?

Children who are raised on strict vegan diets do not grow normally:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/4067152
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8005079

Children develop rickets after prolonged periods of strict vegetarian diets:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1874810/pdf/canmedaj01383-0052.pdf

"There are some links between vegetarians and lower birthweight and earlier labour"

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7788369

Effects of vitamin B12 and folate deficiency on brain development in children:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3137939/

"Particular attention should be paid to adequate protein intake and sources of essential fatty acids, iron, zinc, calcium, and vitamins B12 and D. Supplementation may be required in cases of strict vegetarian diets with no intake of any animal products."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2912628/

These next five are case studies:

Cerebral atrophy in a vitamin B12-deficient infant of a vegetarian mother:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25076673

Severe megaloblastic anemia in child breast fed by a vegetarian mother:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8442642

Consequences of exclusive breast-feeding in vegan mother newborn - case report:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19748244

Nutritional vitamin B12 deficiency in a breast-fed infant of a vegan-diet mother:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3948463

"We report the case of a 7 month-old girl that presented with acute anemia, generalized muscular hypotonia and failure to thrive. Laboratory evaluation revealed cobalamin deficiency, due to a vegan diet of the mother."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18293883

>>42500693
I can get veganism not being the best, but fuck you gotta give it more than 2 days for your body to adjust/withdrawal symptoms to pass. Also, nuts and seeds are pretty damn caloric, along with pasta and breads. Next time don't puss out immediately.

>>42503224
Is veganism is so healthy and the best diet then why do you feel like shit when starting it

>>42491863
>he recognised that the problem was not her veganism, per se, but the particularly rigid and restrictive diet regime she had imposed on herself.

>>42491863
>she expressed “disgust” at clean eating as a judgmental form of body fascism. “Food is not dirty”

You are aligning yourself with SJW retards, and food can in absolute certain fact be dirty. Feel free to spray your next bowl of rice with roundup if you don't believe me.

>>42492700
Heat isn't a flavor. Ask me how I know you are an american.

>>42487942
Vegans are the flat earthers of /fit/

>>42499369
Not saying they are not "qualified", saying they are not experts in the field and their words don't disapprove experts who support it.
For example: A well respected geologist teaches an into class in sedimentology.
He knows the material and teaches it well, however if you were to ask him a more complicated question he may not be fully informed on it.
You have no idea how scientists work, just because someone teaches a class doesn't mean they are qualified in all aspects of the material, just means they know enough to teach that intro course which isn't hard.

>>42503195
Those people sound stupid.
Not vegan but I get my folate RDA from vegetables alone everyday, B12 is piss easy to get for vegans too.

My explanation for this is that people in general are lazy and don't put effort in their diets, they believe switching to vegetarian/vegan will make them healthier but if they don't research it they will be even unhealthier.
Meat makes it easy to get quite a few nutrients so a plant eater would have to be not a sack of shit and be on top of their game on what they are eating.
I'm in full support of people going vegan if they are smart about it but I don't believe the general populace should as they are not willing to even track calories, and veganism truly requires tracking of micro-nutrients and minerals.

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>>42501537
'Civic nationalist'

>>42487942
ok well I've been vegan for three years and have very different results.
What the fuck is with people going
>HUR DUR I TRIED VEEGIN FOR (x number of months) and ALMOST DIED LOL U NEED MEAT
like ok? You're terrible at doing research and eating a proper vegan diet clearly from your description of your diet? nobody cares.

>>42489142
Snake oil tier advice

>>42503965
This. It's a lot easier to just eat meat and sure, putting effort into a diet that requires effort is hard. Doesn't give you the right to shit all over it when you do it improperly and don't get good results due to that.

>>42489142
>day 3 of /noanimals/
>already making eye contact with girls in the street
>more energy, no brain fog
>women can't resist my vegan musk and beg for my cock
>doubled my bench, dead, and squat

>>42488362
So did you ever take a college class that explained how cooking meat over a fire is the reason we had the nutrients to evolve the higher level of cognitive thought we have today? The only reason you can even ponder ethics and being vegan is because our ancestors ate cooked meat. Oh the irony.

>>42488631
5'3 and 110lbs is like zero muscle, that's not fit that's just being skinny. She'll probably age like the cryptkeeper

>>42504241
>So did you ever take a college class that explained how cooking meat over a fire is the reason we had the nutrients to evolve the higher level of cognitive thought we have today?
This is just one of many theories.
Some theories discuss omega fats as more of a jump start.
Some people think shrooms did it.
A smart vegan should be able to get all essential nutrients and fatty acids if they try.

>>42504185
>having to do extensive research in order to not die
>STILL needing supplements even if your diet is on point
There's a reason we eat meat anon, it's simply more convenient

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>>42488107
>practicing liberal food religion
Literally
>http://chaosandpain.blogspot.com/2010/07/vegetarianism-and-veganism-best.html
>http://chaosandpain.blogspot.com/2010/07/vegetarianism-and-veganism-are-as.html
>http://www.lloydianaspects.co.uk/opinion/veggie.html
>>42491889
>If 3/5 of the main components of your diet are complete fucking memes
>protein powder
There is no if because the only thing that is a meme is your statement
>http://suppversity.blogspot.com/search?q=Whey
>(cont.)

>>42504394
>(cont.)
>>42496860
>Every major health organization in the world says that vegan diets are perfectly healthy. Some are even saying that they are nutritionally superior to omnivorous diets.
And they're full of shit.
>Your biology professors don't know shit.
And neither do you
>>42496893
No, he means evidence
>>42496916
>http://chaosandpain.blogspot.com/2014/10/the-simplicity-of-dieting-it-really-is.html?m=1
>http://press.endocrine.org/doi/full/10.1210/jcem.85.1.6291
>https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3529694/#!po=57.9365
>https://breakingmuscle.com/fuel/why-all-humans-need-to-eat-meat-for-health
>https://authoritynutrition.com/it-aint-the-fat-people/
>https://authoritynutrition.com/top-8-reasons-not-to-fear-saturated-fats/
>https://authoritynutrition.com/saturated-fat-good-or-bad/
>https://chriskresser.com/the-diet-heart-myth-cholesterol-and-saturated-fat-are-not-the-enemy/
>http://www.uib.no/en/node/103172
>http://www.healthline.com/nutrition/5-studies-on-saturated-fat
>http://bjsm.bmj.com/content/early/2017/03/31/bjsports-2016-097285
>(cont.)

When exactly did vegans completely take over the "healthy alternative diet" discussion? I remember vegetarianism used to be a thing a couple years ago but now everyone pretends like it doesn't even exist and only talks about going vegan. If you want to cut down on meat, just become a vegetarian, you get all the health benefits of a vegan diet without any of the side effects.

>>42504453
>(cont.)
>http://www.diagnosisdiet.com/meat-and-cancer/
>https://chriskresser.com/red-meat-cancer-again-will-it-ever-stop/
>http://www.mensfitness.com/nutrition/what-to-eat/meat-cancer-bacon-who-report-mens-fitness-health
>https://rawfoodsos.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/minger_formal_response2.pdf
>https://deniseminger.com/2010/08/06/final-china-study-response-html/
>https://deniseminger.com/2010/08/03/the-china-study-a-formal-analysis-and-response/
>https://deniseminger.com/2010/07/07/the-china-study-fact-or-fallac/ >http://www.foodrenegade.com/the-china-study-discredited/
>https://deniseminger.com/the-china-study/
>https://www.westonaprice.org/our-blogs/the-curious-case-of-campbells-rats-does-protein-deficiency-prevent-cancer/
>https://www.westonaprice.org/our-blogs/taking-a-trip-down-memory-lane-fishing-for-our-good-friend-glutathione-in-the-waters-of-the-memory-hole-how-t-colin-campbell-helped-prove-that-protein-protects-us
>https://www.reddit.com/r/keto/comments/2qxnro/red_meat_triggers_toxic_immune_reaction_which/cnai2od/
>http://caloriesproper.com/red-meat-wont-kill-you-it-will-make-you-stronger/
>http://www.saragottfriedmd.com/does-meat-cause-cancer-revisiting-the-meat-igf-1-and-cancer-connection/
>http://www.catalystathletics.com/articles/downloads/proteinDebate.pdf

>>42497000
>Animals store vitamin B12 in liver and muscle and some pass the vitamin into their eggs and milk; meat, liver, eggs and milk are therefore sources of the vitamin for other animals, including people.[3][5][27] For humans, the bioavailability from eggs is less than 9%, compared to 40% to 60% from fish, fowl and meat.[28] Insects are a source of B12 for animals (including other insects and humans).[27][29]
>Animal sources with a significant content of vitamin B12 (range among top 20 sources of 50 to 99 µg per 100 grams)[30] include clams, organ meats (especially liver) from lamb, veal, beef, and turkey, fish eggs, mackerel, and crab meat.[2][3]
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_B12#Animal_sources
>>42497094
>Nope, but if you want mercury poisoning and other toxins from the polluted oceans go right ahead and eat all the fish you want.
It"s a good thing he won't get any of that then, because it's a meme
>https://chriskresser.com/5-reasons-why-concerns-about-mercury-in-fish-are-misguided/
>https://www.aboutseafood.com/press_release/media-still-perpetuating-mercury-myth/
>https://www.aboutseafood.com/blog_type/mercury-blog/
>http://suppversity.blogspot.com/2014/09/faster-muscle-hypertrophy-lower.html
>http://suppversity.blogspot.com/2016/02/minimal-amounts-of-fish-peptide.html
>http://suppversity.blogspot.com/2012/06/fishing-for-better-wheys-to-improve.html
>http://suppversity.blogspot.com/2014/04/fish-and-krill-oil-both-work-but-their.html
>http://suppversity.blogspot.com/2013/05/fish-oil-compromises-fish-improves.html
>(cont.)

>>42501550
>TFW you're retarded enough to think you get affected by plant estrogen
Except it's not retarded at all to think that.
>https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21353476
>https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11103227
>https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15735098
>https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/labs/articles/10798211/
>Poor cognitive test performance, enlargement of ventricles and low brain weight were each significantly and independently associated with higher midlife tofu consumption. A similar association of midlife tofu intake with poor late life cognitive test scores was also observed among wives of cohort members, using the husband's answers to food frequency questions as proxy for the wife's consumption. Statistically significant associations were consistently demonstrated in linear and logistic multivariate regression models. Odds ratios comparing endpoints among "high-high" with "low-low" consumers were mostly in the range of 1.6 to 2.0.
>https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10763906
From an anon describing the studies below and the same on isoflavones: Genistein, dihydrogenistein, and equol have essentially the same binding affinity and degree of receptor activation at ERb as endogenous estrogen. Same with dihydrogenistein and equol at ERa. 3 oz of steak contains 1.9ng of estrogen, 8 ounces of soy milk contains 30000ng of isoflavone, clearly higher on a mole for mole basis. And unlike phytoestrogens estrogen is catabolized by the gastrointestinal tract and only about 5% survives first pass to the liver.
>http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/bph.13622/full
>http://press.endocrine.org/doi/pdf/10.1210/endo.139.10.6216
>https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/bpb/24/4/24_4_351/_article
>http://newsroom.unl.edu/announce/beef/2846/15997
>http://www.ars.usda.gov/SP2UserFiles/Place/12354500/Data/isoflav/Isoflav_R2.pdf
>http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0958694611002123
>(cont.)

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>>42504537
>(cont.)
Jamie Lewis on soy
>http://chaosandpain.blogspot.com/2010/09/soy-is-devil-and-not-in-fun-way.html
>http://chaosandpain.blogspot.com/2010/09/soy-is-devil-and-not-in-fun-way-22-12.html
>>42501550
>but think you're not affected by animal based estrogen found in milk produced by pregnant cows
And that thought is right, because estrogen in milk is a dietary meme.
>http://suppversity.blogspot.com/2014/01/true-or-false-dairy-is-toxic-hormone.html
Also highly doubt the"milk=prostate cancer" entirely especially when in the article it says:
>Estrone and prostate cancer risk in men: As far as the estrone levels Maruyama et al. measured in their 2010 study are concerned it is very difficult to tell, whether or not the 26% increase in E2 levels is or isn't a problem.
>The estrone values in the Maruyama study are unrealistic. With a normal range of <68pg/ml the subjects in the Maruyama study would have elevated E1 levels to begin with, if the measurement was correct.
>difficult to tell
>unrealistic
and
>What remains to be seen, though, is whether future epidemiological evidence will support or refute the currently heralded hypothesis that dairy consumption increases prostate cancer risk and whether we will be able to identify more feasible explanations for this relations than those that are implicated by the results Maruyama et al. present in their 2010 study.
>http://sciencedrivennutrition.com/hormones-milk/
>http://suppversity.blogspot.de/2014/05/bcfa-gut-health-immunity-cancer.html
>http://suppversity.blogspot.com/2013/12/dairy-good-bad-or-ugly-latest-studies.html
>http://suppversity.blogspot.com/2016/07/cheese-your-health-cvd-cancer-metabolic.html
>http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/07315724.2011.10719992

>>42504471
Why?
Why source websites and reddit instead of factual data?
Is it because real data goes against your arguments?
Serious question, at least cherry pick a few real journals.
Those major health organizations are far less full of shit than you because they actually look at scientific research as opposed to meme articles.
>yeah man I BTFO these vegans because I know how to reference blogs
Eating a plate of bacon right now and even I know you're pathetic.

>>42504568
Will add that I am kind of scared of most soy products.
I do believe fermented soy is far better though.

>>42503324
>rather than enjoying the flavour of something you douse it in hot sauce
Are you retarded? I bet you're one of those monkeys in the UK that think messes of flavour like vindaloo or madras are legit indian foods.

>>42492709
i always read that as registered diebetian

>>42504265
>This is just one of many theories.
It a well researched fact. With even a notable proven period where we ate majoritarily meat/animal products
>http://time.com/4252373/meat-eating-veganism-evolution/
>https://www.livescience.com/23671-eating-meat-made-us-human.html
>https://www.livescience.com/24875-meat-human-brain.html
>>42504471
>>42504394
>People who read books know a fact that vegetarians do not- that at one point in history, the Earth's total population of humans dropped to between 5,000 and 10,000 individuals, due to the eruption of Mt. Toba in Sumatra, which killed off most of the available plant and animal life on Earth in 71,000 BC. During this period of time, humans were confined to an extraordinarily small area of Africa that escaped glaciation, where they subsisted on a diet that was "approximately 50-70% meat and 50-30% plants, respectively." This diet was necessitated by the die-off of plants and animals, and the lack of a varied diet that could have been otherwise obtained though plant gathering. It was at this time that the Neanderthal diet came to consist of naught but meat, due to the complete lack of availability of edible vegetation, which likely lasted for at least 1000 years.(Plants/climate)
>>42504568
>Why?
>Why source websites and reddit instead of factual data?
Why don't you read to find out
>Serious question, at least cherry pick a few real journals.
>This level of projection
>Those major health organizations are far less full of shit than you because they actually look at scientific research as opposed to meme articles.
I just went over how they did the exact opposite of that
>>42504471
>>yeah man I BTFO these vegans because I know how to reference blogs
>Eating a plate of bacon right now and even I know you're pathetic.
>Not bothering to read and projecting again

>>42504895
Your facts come from time magazine and a website.
Definitely not a fact either, facts are hardly a thing in science which is hard for normies to understand.
Theories are never truly proven, they are just bolstered by more evidence and strengthened by disproving superfluous information is assumes.
I'm not going to read a blog or reddit, if there were relevant sources that you yourself read you would cite them, instead you let bloggers do the thinking for you.

Read those last three just to see, there are no sources on any of the info.
The time one is baseless and poorly written, has no actual information.
The others only include that humans have needed B12 for a long time, which if you were unaware of is present in bacteria which can be found naturally in streams and shit.
Of course humans ate meat in the past, it's far easier to get all nutrition from meat instead of just plants.

Veganism is purely a modern invention, they are taking advantage of being able to choose many different plants and having the knowledge of knowing which vitamins we need, nothing you have showed argues against it with any relevant info.

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>>42504971
States with a larger percentage of faggots also have a larger percentage of vegans.

Coincidence?

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>>42504984

>>42504984
Probably, I'm assuming gay culture is more inclined to go vegan but it's probably better to correlate big cities to veganism to gays, which of course big cities are more likely to have gays.
So yes, gay people are less conservative which makes them likely to try new things, making them more likely to go vegan.
Same thing with cities, Metropolitan areas are more liberal meaning they are more likely to vegan.

Only meme diets of the homosexuals I've met were paleo and keto, only vegans I've known were either young skinny white girls, 30 year old outdoorsy men who kept it to themselves, or indian men.

>>42504971
>Your facts come from time magazine and a website.
>Definitely not a fact either
>More not reading
>I'm not going to read a blog or reddit,
At least you admit it
>if there were relevant sources that you yourself read you would cite them
And I did
>instead you let bloggers do the thinking for you.
Good thing they're right huh?
>Read those last three just to see
No you didn't
>there are no sources on any of the info.
Which is how I know you didn't read them

>>42504568
haha yea! the china study sure is a reddit post haha goteem'

also op you're retarded 99% sure you didn't eat enough. It's really fucking hard going through like what, 2-3cups a rice a day? jesus man... Also you probably had to little fat in your diet especially if you are used to a high fat diet...

>>42505101
I'm a chemist and my undergrad was spent researching the same things china articles were doing to check their efficacy, none of them were right.
Don't know how they are with nutrition however but their science institutions are flawed, I do however respect some of their mathematics.

>And I did
And please post them and not bloggers and social media.

>Which is how I know you didn't read them
No reference page, bibliography, or in text citations.

>>42504984
>Health IQ
>Implying these vegan restaurants are good for you

Was eating with a vegan, every restaurant we went to had the same if not more caloric content as meat shit, with tons of sugar and everything. I brought this up and they even agreed the only real reason to eat this shit is morals, not health reasons. They found it had no significant change on their weight or anything like that if they attempted to eat a balanced diet.

>>42489142
>1. You energy levels will increase
Clarence said this is a lie.
>2. Your palate will improve and you'll begin to taste and therefore appreciate more subtle flavors
This is a lie.
>3. Along with #2, your tolerance for higher heat levels in food will increase. Stock up on hot sauce.
This is a lie.
>4. Your shit volume will increase markedly
This is a lie. It implies you were nutritionally deficient.


Why even continue. Everything you said is a lie. You can eat a better diet including meat and experience things such as increased energy levels.

>>42489052
maybe it's because half the posters dont know what the fuck they're talking about and are unironically shilling a diet/meme-fad(akin to LOSE WEIGHT NOW!! programs) because they're conceited and condescending

>>42505253
>Your shit volume will increase markedly
I'm assuming a vegan would be eating more vegetables than someone who eats meat so why wouldn't this be true for 99% of vegans?

>>42494113
how much did you pay for that projection?

>>42505315
Shit gets pushed out your system based on the amount of fiber in your body and how much fiber is required to attach the toxins to said fiber.

The consumption of meat doesn't stop this form happening in any way, shape or form. Your shit quality degrades if you don't eat fiber, but it also goes off the principle of diminishing returns. If you eat a healthy fibrous diet you are going to shit just as much as somebody who eats only veggies as long as you are consuming ample amounts.

All vegan diets tell us is that most people do not eat complex enough diets and we tend to avoid fiber in general.

>>42505366
I don't disagree with diminishing returns but there are still returns, just far less.
So the vegan would have more volume still, not that it would be markedly so as if a meat eater gets enough fiber both stools are healthy.

I'm the guy who have been arguing for veganism but I feel like most of the pros are bullshit if a meat eater eats healthy.
The benefit of veganism would be that you just aren't getting the negatives of eating meat (cholesterol, sat fat, heme iron).
I still think that pescotarians are the true masterrace.

>>42505402
Even then there is no problems with cholesterol, saturated fats and all things of these categories if consumption of them is proper.

The major benefit of veganism are if it aligns with your moral systems you are acting morally righteously. Health wise almost all benefits reported are reported against a "normal" population that eats meat, and will eat shitty greasy McDonalds burgers and things like that, which can cause health problems.

You can still get these same health problems if you ate the shittiest vegan diet imaginable with vegetable oils up the ass, high calories and high sugar contents.

>>42489142
Thank you buzzfeed

>>42487942
this isnt nothing new

>>42505470
I agree, a shitty vegan is just as bad as a shitty anything else pretty much.
But I'm curious if a strict vegan is healthiest because even if a moderate amount of cholesterol and sat fat won't hurt you is it objectively healthier not to have them at all?
I just don't understand most arguments against veganism because a smart one should be able overcome practically any argument since the nutrition is possible.

so any diet is good if you meat the macros(lol). Spoonfeed me a website or place to get a list of everything I need to have assuming I dont have access to a nutritionist. Or at least calculate what I'm missing.

>>42505607
nevermind. gonna use cronometer.

>>42505561
>Is it objectively healthier

There is no evidence that it is. Most things the body can process are good is small amounts. Some things are useless period. For example, saturated fats can have health benefits but trans fats have no benefits at all.

>>42487942
Similar reactions

>>42501537
>right wing
>civic nationalist
>vegan
Ah, so a cuck? You can't be rightwing and not eat red meat

>>42501550
Eric Bugenhagen did GOMAD for years, does it look like he has an estrogen problem?

>>42503965
There is no way to get b12 from anything but animal products or supplements. I'll spell it out for you: you cannot get b12 from fruits or vegetables.

>>42503922
They are fucking doctors of biology, they have an education in how cells and organisms work. I'm going to take their teachings over some internet vegan who has still failed to post a timestamped cbt itt after all this time

Hot damn i forgot how easily vegans get triggered

>>42507158
I said B12 was piss easy to get, didn't say you can get it from fruits or vegetables.
Supplements are cheap and nutritional yeast is cheap too and I wouldn't consider that a supplement.

>>42507211
Not a vegan but a scientist who is actually educated and understands how the scientific community works.
If there is a theory on quantum theory that is well respected and an Organic chemist says it's shit during one of his classes should someone believe him?
No, he has very little education on the matter and while he might be able to further study and develop a well educated opinion his opinion is far lesser than physical and analytical chemists who study quantum.

Same goes for biologists, this is not me arguing for or against veganism or any diet, this is me trying to educate someone on how science and education works.
The overall consensus nutritionists have on veganism is that it is healthy, some are a bit indecisive if it's healthy for infants and what not but if you ask someone well educated they say that it it's a legit alternative diet.
A biologist's word against a nutritionists?
Fuck that, I'm not going to listen to a GP over a oncologist for the cancer you gave me.

>>42488107
This is in reaction to young white guys being told their whole life they are privileged and their feeling are invalid.

They went crazy and said, I am going to become the most oppressed minority in the world. Then my feelings will be validated and I can be vulnrable.
Ever notice how many fucking freak trannies are white?

>>42489142
Ive noticed most of these, especially number 8. My god my dick gets hard.

>>42507721
And yet still vegans who supplement b12 are deficient in it, the diet is garbage m8. For source>>42497144

>>42507721
>I wouldn't consider nutritional yeast, a product named for its function in its users' diets that is packaged and sold as a supplement, a supplement

>>42507899
I've always seen it more as a regular foodstuff, I buy it just because I like putting it in soups since it's low cal and tastes cheesy.

>>42507858
>The use of supplements or fortified foods seems to prevent deficiencies, indicating that a well-planned plant-based diet has proven to be adequate and sustainable [112,113]. However, despite the use of fortified foods, deficiency over a period of five years could occur, demonstrating a continuing insufficient intake or a possible decline in the absorptive capacity due to aging [114]. In all likelihood, even when supplementation occurs, it is possible that concentrations sufficient to avoid the reduction of body stock in the liver, blood and kidney cannot be reached. The liver is the main reservoir with a capacity of around 1–1.5 mg of Cbl [114].

Interesting. Might look into the articles they are citing.
It seems like B12 supps may work but might later not work.
This source seems pretty reliable so hopefully it makes for interesting reading, thanks m8.
Not vegan nor planning to be vegan but I don't want to be an idiot that spouts "muh evolution" like half of /fit/ who hardly know how to read.

>>42507721
If an individual is intelligent enough to understand and teach biology do you not think that they are intelligent enough to understand human nutrition?

WHO, harvard health, aha, usda, american dietetic association, american college of cardiology, dietitians of canada/britain/australia and other organizations all recognize that vegan diets are health and even have some potential health benefits. If you look at their guidelines (I know WHO and Harvard specifically), their "recommended healthy eating guidelines" are essentially vegan diets, promoting protein from plant sources etc.

Even the american college of cardiology released a statement saying straight up that vegan diets are optimal for heart health. Also, fun fact I remember reading an AMA and the guy was a cardiologist and he answered a question saying "there is no doubt that plant based diets, and in fact vegan diets, are optimal for heart health"

it's not really a secret in the scientific community. There is only debate between retards on forums and specifically ketards.

>>42507981
They are intelligent enough to understand it, they just haven't studied it intensively like someone who has their doctorate in nutrition.
My opinions on quantum physics don't mean shit even though I've had a couple grad school level courses on it, that's not my field and I don't have the knowledge or experience to tell a quantum physicist who has studied it 20+ years to fuck off.
Do you understand my argument now?
It is not an attack at the biologist's character or intelligence, it's saying that they are objectively far less equipped to discuss nutrition in depth than someone who has a PHD in it.
As in >>42508031, these guidelines are respected by the majority of nutritionists.
This is like taking a DYEL's lifting advice instead of an experienced lifting coach, yes the DYEL might be a smart guy who might one day understand everything he needs to know to teach you but that lifting coach has more education and experience.

I will repeat it again, don't treat this as "I need to shit on veganism" because I don't give two fucks about that right now, I care if you understand that scientists are specialized in specific fields and are far more educated in that field thanothers

>>42508031
See>>42503195
Don't think a diet can be healthy with those results

>>42487942
OP here... the funniest part about it all is that since going back to paleo, the amount of actual meat I have to eat is MINISCULE.

Just 2 chicken thighs helps me recover better than 200g of protein powder.

Even though the actual studies show at best that red/cured/processed meat is horrible for you, even assuming you were right and ALL meat was horrible for you, I still wouldn't be that bad off.

> Oh no, u eat 2 pieces of baked chikken a day! U gon get a fart attack even tho nobody in ur fambly ever had one b4 in last 5 generation!!!

>>42507936
>>42507858
Just read the sources, they were just case studies viewing the vegans vs the general populace.
Vegans were deficient in a couple things and meat eaters were deficient in others, overall B12 was low for both groups but not considered deficient.

Been trying to understand the vegan food lifestyle (wtf is a diet?).

So far what I've understood is:
>>Cost of groceries went down. Tofu isn't expensive and veggies are dirty cheap here( TX).
>> Not very easy if you aren't in a country that has good access to multivitamins, and variety of veggies year round.
>> Easier to slowly get into with good planning and flavor experimentation
>> Big shits and farts.

I can't for the life of me trust Pro or Anti Vegan stuff I read. I literally lack any education in the field to understand the studies and make a decision. So I trust my observations and note the changes I can see or notice. Probably should check with docs and get some tests if I really wanted to monitor it more closely, but honestly not hard, just a challenge.

>>42508205
That's what I've been thinking, been thinking about cutting down on grocery costs and plants taste good as fuck.
Haven't done it but as long as my tests would come back good from the doc consistently I would be willing to eat vegan at my home and only eat meat when I'm on vacation or going out to a nice restaurant.
Almost sounds comfy because I can feel extra pumped when I eat 32 oz of ribeye on my birthday every year.

>>42508205
So why don't you go by a simple ask the vegans to post cbt or lifts you already have the omnivores in cbt for aesthetics and plg for strength.

>>42487942

Holy shit OP you have blown veganfaggots absolutely the fuck out. It looks like you did everything right, the vegans ITT who are bitching sound like communists when they claim "true" communism has never been tried - "LOL YOU ONLY DID VEGANISM 99.99999999999999% RIGHT THAT'S WHY IT DIDN'T WORK".

It particularly amuses me because on an omni diet you don't even need to stick to the meal plan all that closely in order to make gains, as long as your macro and calorie bases are covered. But even when you did everything right on vegan, gains suffered.

Vegancucks, gtfo of /fit/. We need to archive this thread as a quick copypasta rebuttal to all the vegan shills invading /fit/.

>>42508254

I enjoy all food way too much to be one food life style. Cooking is too much of a passion for me to want to just ignore so much of what I can play around with when it comes to just the variables of flavor, texture, quality, and combination.

When I look at the food vegans eat I just see areas I could add meat for non-vegans and vice versa. Shit isn't rocket science, just hard to understand when vegans use a different vocabulary for their meat or animal product substitutes .

In the end we all have to know that one particular food life style doesn't fit all. People absorb nutrients differently and not all adaptations come down to what we eat. It is a combo of food and lifestyle.

>>42508282
cbt and plg? Sorry I am a fag for asking. Just want to clarify the slang.

>>42508414
Current body threads and powerlifting general. You see shredded guys in the former and strong fucks in the latter I think isley just posted a 280 kg diddy or squat.

>>42508428
FuckYeahM8.jpg

Thanks for clarity.

>>42487942
>> diet is mostly rice, beans, coconut milk, soy protein powder, multivitamin
You ate a nutritionally inadequate diet and you're wondering why you feel like shit?

Been vegan for 2 years now and I feel better than ever.

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>>42488637
>I took 1000mg capsules every other day
Eat your fruits and vegetables instead.
>I took prenatal vitamins which have 160% RDA.
Eat your oats and lentils.
>I did. I chopped up at least 2 vegetables into my food daily and tried to vary it.
Probably less than you think, I aim for 500g of vegetables and 300g of fruit per day.

Willing to bet that you didn't log your food on a site like Cronometer.
>picture related

>>42508456
You also don't squat 405 who am I kidding you probably don't even squat 200, natty vegan diet is not compatible with strength training
>>42508517
I thought you were going to sleep after the spanking you got.

>>42508517
see
>>42488592

>>42508544
>You also don't squat 405 who am I kidding you probably don't even squat 200, natty vegan diet is not compatible with strength training
Really grasping at straws here.

>>42508393
Guy you're responding too and completely agree, just tried keto and it gave me acne and even past the flu it made me have more mental fog, might work for some but not for me.
Really have no idea why children can't understand this, you can't do something, like a diet or lift, and say it doesn't work for anyone just because you weren't successful with it.
I love cooking too, part of the reason I want to go semi-vegan for a while is to broaden my tastes and cook more foods, really interested in fermented foods and such.
It's almost like a challenge, I would never do it long term but I'm curious how my body would react to it and really how much cheaper it could be.
Would recommend trying to cook seitan and also using nutritional yeast in soups, I can't cook seitan satisfactory yet but the yeast gives a nice subtle cheesy/nutty flavor to lentil soups that I love.

>>42508557
>>42488592

Post the cronometer logs

>>42508587
Fuck yeah dude!

Challenges are great and fitness, life, and health are experiential learning processes that we work on till we die. It's good shit to have done it and understood it from experience.

how long did you live keto?

>>42508625
Only like a month and a half, not long enough for an entire try but uni is back up next week and I can't do with this mental fog and this acne.
Shame because I heard people feel a lot better after 3 months, almost willing to risk it but it's my last year so probably shouldn't be experimenting with my diet when it potentially can hurt brain gains for a while.

Going to be extra busy so I'm thinking that I will go IF 20:4 as I will be in class 8-8 everyday, I'm lactose intolerant (still eat dairy a little) so I probably will be trying to go vegan 90% of the time but still go out and eat a nice meal of fish twice a week.
Excited to see how I respond, also looking into doing more body weight exercises for tendon strength so I can get into rock climbing.

>>42488107
Really? I was a vegetarian in college and most of the liberal fuckstains are the ones who gave me shit for it and told me it was bad for me despite me being taller, more muscular, and able to walk up stairs and not get winded.

>>42497545
based muslims

>>42504453
>keto blogs

You're joking, right?

>>42508122
Those organizations are also full of shit
>>42504471

>vitamin and supplement industry is a multi-billion dollar industry
>meat eaters take tons of various vitamins on a daily basis
>VEGANS NEED A B12 SUPPLEMENT THEREFORE IT'S A SHIT DIET LULLULSULFDUASLFJMKAOLN GF;AEOW

can someone explain this

>>42510202
>Not reading
You're joking right

>>42510244
Not reading your shit sources. You cited Chris Kresser ffs

>>42488583

>Having to supplement your diet with pills just to get the nutrients meats give you.

Sounds fucking healthy to me! Or maybe its your bodies way of saying eat meat you faggot.

>>42510265
Heart disease is the leading cause of death in the United States. Eating meat and animal products causes heart disease. Enjoy your heart disease.

>>42510275
>Eating meat and animal products causes heart disease.
No they don't.
>Enjoy your heart disease.
Enjoy your memes.
>>42504453

>>42510251
You being lazy/unwilling to read and science assblasting you doesn't make my sources shit

>>42510346
>populations that eat little to no meat
>no heart disease

>burgerland
>tons of heart disease

Gee, I wonder what the fucking cause of heart disease is.

>>42510371
>>42510346
I don't give a fuck about your keto blogs. The world's nutrition experts all agree that vegan diets are optimal for human health.

>>42510346
>>42510371
Also, please watch Dr. Greger's videos. He reports on only the latest well-designed nutrition research. He has made videos on how flawed the studies are that keto gurus commonly cite.

>>42510435
That guy looks like shit and looks like a cuck. He has zero muscle mass, a walking testament to how terrible veganism is for muscular development. If you can prove differently post timestamped cbt right now

>>42510459
Are you 16 years old? That isn't how any of this works...


>>42496494
all vegan

>>42510275

Rather die of heart disease and look like a man then some frail brittle hair limp wrist fag. Just being honest.

>>42510386
First off correlation is not causation. Secondly the Standard American diet is full of processed shit(including meat AND grains/veggies) which is the cause of the shitty health status of the population, not meat

>>42510482
>First off correlation is not causation

Saturated fat and cholesterol found in meat causes heart disease. We've known this for decades.

inb4 more keto blogs

>>42499538
the lacto is doing it

>>42499538
Eggs

If you have never hunted and killed an animal yourself, you don't deserve to eat meat.

>>42510602
I go to the supermarket and buy my meat. I'm just like a lion.

>>42510730
>I read a Gary Taubes book and visit /r/keto on a daily basis

The problem with you ketards is that you've been arguing the same shit that's been debunked by vegans for years now.

It was new and interesting like 5 years ago but you're old news. You just don't realize it because you just recently discovered keto.

>>42510386
>Gee, I wonder what the fucking cause of heart disease is
Not meat or animal products not matter how much you want to blame them or champion the pseudoscience of Ancel Keys.
>I don't give a fuck about your keto blogs.
Yeah yeah you've made your stance on science clear ITT for a while now
>The world's nutrition experts all agree that vegan diets are optimal for human health.
A few organizations doing hackneyed shit science and ignoring consistent scientific and historical evidence is nowhere near "the world's nutrition experts" and they can agree on whatever they want, science and the human historical record will always prove them wrong and support animal products.
>>42510529
No we haven't "known" it. Because the entire idea was bullshit formally made up by Ancel Keys backed by zero research and taken and ran with by more pseuds.
>https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancel_Keys
>http://anthonycolpo.com/the-great-polyunsaturated-swindle-new-research-reveals-previously-hidden-findings/
>inb4 more keto blogs
inb4 more not reading
>>42510590
No, it's not.
>>42504561
>>42510599
Also bullshit
>http://suppversity.blogspot.com/search?q=eggs&m=1
>>42504453

>>42504157
Yeah civic nationalist. I'd prefer letting well educated Asians into the country and kicking out white welfare leeching low IQ tokkies.

>>42503195
Interesting that you cite case studies. A few instances don't set the norm.

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>when you get adequate b12 and it makes your brain work well enough to see how stupid being vegan is

>>42487942
>(((paleo))) diet

Isn't this literally just eating clean?

Why do normies have to meme a natural fucking diet?

>>42512434
Also in a true paleo diet you wouldn't be eating much white meat. You'd eat seeds, nuts, root vegetables, berries, fruits, and the occasional slab of red game meat (so the best analogue would be venison or "exotic" meats such as kangaroo and hirse). You'd barely touch eggs.

>>42512447

>eggs arent paleo

what

>>42510243
It's just meat eaters attempting to discredit veganism, because they have no actual arguments.

>>42512451
Paleolithic man wasn't a fucking farmer, faggot, eggs weren't a staple, they were opportunists. They're not going to risk injury climbing trees for a handful of tiny ass bird eggs.

>>42512572

>paleo diet is an actual paleolithic diet

what

>>42510459
>someone doesn't look like a roiding bodybuilder therefore everything they say about nutrition is invalid

>>42489150
hey fuck u im 20 not 22

>>42510275
The leading predictor of heart disease is a family history of heart disease.

I, the OP, have no (zero) family history of heart disease for at least 5 generations. Quite clearly I do not have whatever retard gene causes people to die from eating what they were evolved to eat.

What now?

Am I going to magically get heart disease from eating a very clean paleo diet, despite nobody else in my family getting it despite eating a diet of salted lard and cigarettes their whole lives?

>>42512585
That's literally what its supposed to be.

From paleodiet.com

>A fundamental principle of the Paleo Diet is to go back to the way of our ancestors and depend on all-natural sustenance to survive.

>>42510275
Rather die from hearth disease at 55 than live until 75 as a vegan bitch

>>42513122

Yeah but the diet makes concessions and admits that fundamentally it's not a true paleolithic diet. Don't be wilfully obtuse.

>>42513146

You won't say that when you're approaching 40 though.

Honestly the health arguments for veganism are blown out of proportion, but stupid statements like this make my blood boil.

By 55 you'll have a kid, maybe about to graduate, or even about to have a kid of their own. You'll be praying and begging that you get to see all that, not going "Gee eating shitty food to appear edgy on that 4chan website was worth not seeing my grandkids grow up!".

>>42513363
I'm not being wilfully obtuse, its literally my initial criticism you jackass, that its not actually a paleo diet.

>>42513402

And it never actually claimed to be. So what exactly is your point?

>>42513395
vegans don't have children or at least they don't survive childhood.

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Old photo, but I'm vego for health concerns.
I gained over 15kgs I think in 9-12 months.
I look average now because last 10 months ive been working 2 jobs doing 60 hours a week but I've recently started training and getting coached making alot of progress.
Being a vegan takes alot of effort.

>>42513411
So you didn't even read my posts?

>call it paleo
>its not actually paleo its just clean eating
>why do normies have to meme normal diets
>btw a proper paleo diet would be very different

Literally my first 2 posts in the chain, faggot. We both know you're just trying to cover your ass for not even understanding why you decided to be a sperg in the first place. The entire point was "why call it paleo when its not paleo but is literally just clean eating".

All these vegan fags be like;

>Fucking pleb meat eater i'll prove you wrong
>type - type - shitpost - type - type
>Ahh now that i've won that battle where are my vitamin supplements that allow me to continue on my "SUPERIOR" diet
>Fucking meat eating savages when will they learn that we evolved over millions of years eating only plants.

>>42513480

So you ate more and increased in size? You could of ate fucking bigmacs and seen similar weight gain that doesn't mean a vegan diet is any healthier than one with meat in it.