>Want to start doing deadlifts >Read the horror stories

>Not learning proper form before you go heavy
>Not learning to maintain that form even while going heavy

don't ego lift
lift what you actually can with the right form

always remember: proper form and time under tension are more important than the actual number of pounds/kg you lift

>>42414764
kek

>>42414743
Deadlifts are a meme. You shouldn't really be doing them unless you're a powerlifter

>>42414743
do sumo

>>42414743
watch this
https://youtu.be/oiDczs9j75E

>>42414819
What do you substitute with?

>>42414743

You'll be fine as long as you keep proper form.

Watch some youtube videos and be mindful of the specifics of your particular body, like limb length & proportions, flexibility, grip, etc.

>>42414819
Backlet detected

>>42415206
Rack pulls are insanely good for traps/upper back/erectors. Squats take care of the legs and posterior chain generally.

>>42415339

Your posterior chain is everything from your traps to your hamstrings, including glutes and erectors. Squats simply don't work your hamstrings as much as deadlifts, and rack pulls/block pulls are a great way to get injured if you never pull from the floor.

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>>42414819

LOL - Dyel?

>>42414819
>deadlifts are a meme

only a meme if you are just bodybuilding. If you are strength training, then its necessary.

>>42415339
A weak lower back is half price ticket to snap city.

>>42415361
Rack pulls are awesome, especially if you focus on aesthetics and don't want buildging quads which is like the least attractive muscle when overdone (nothing wrong with it being defined through lower body fat, but when ya got 2 inch sickness protruding out of nowhere right above your knee, it looks like shit)

>>42415434
Diddlies barely work quads if you do them right.

It's literally impossible to go to snap city as a natty if you don't ego lift on deads. Keep your form right and you'll be fine.

If you start roiding because you want to do 800lbs then you're risking it even with proper form.

>>42415339
lmao squats for posterior chain wtffff

>>42415589
But hernia is a very likely possibility if your form is bad with respect to lumbar area. And you don't need anything extraordinary in terms of weight. Example:

Casual Normie walks in, starts doing 1pl DL, rounding lower back. Next day he sore. Oh yeah lactic acid good he thinks. Continues doing this shit for a while. His lower back muscles become big. Push into spine. Protruding discs or hello hernia.

>>42415697
>casual normie

well there is your problem.

>>42415434

You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. Glutes and hamstrings are primary movers in the deadlift, quads are secondary.

>>42415697
>muscles become big, pushed into spine

wat?

>try to deadlift for the first time
>lmao 1pl8
>I have relatively strong legs, this should be okay
>first rep BOOM
>second rep HRRNK
>third rep OH GOD I CAN'T DO THIS SAFELY

how many pounds should i deload

>>42415737
well, at least I know my deadlift isn't as bad as I think. My hamstrings and glutes feel it the most when i do diddlylifts

>>42415755
Probably as low as you can go with the same size pl8s.
Get that form on right then skyrocket up through the weights until you find your true top.

>>42414764
>time under tension
Interesting. So, I work out with a pretty /fit/ friend and he tells me to "keep the weight moving fast" where as otherwise I would pause between reps and do them slower. Is my friend fucking my gains?

>>42415755
really?

what is your bodyweight? stats on other lifts? I mean, im very weak when it comes to deadlifts but even I didn't have problems with 135

>>42415771

Time under tension is a meme. What matters is number of difficult sets across all rep ranges for strength and hypertrophy.

>>42415771
>he tells me to "keep the weight moving fast"
Sounds like a crosfitter

You want to do the movement slow and controlled. Using jerks to get momentum going is literally cheating

>>42415771
im not sure if the time under tension thing matters. But im not absolutely sure. I read something about this in PP but forgot. I gotta read it again i guess

>>42415792
moving fast and jerking to get momentum are 2 different things.

>>42414743
dont do deadlifts then.

you dont have to do any particular exercise.

do exercises that you enjoy doing.

>>42415659
Yes

>>42415805
The difference is only how smooth you transition out of the jerk.
Fast is always twitch muscle based

>>42415792
Nah, he loads 225 on bench and moves it fast 5x8. Hard not to listen to him. I'm doing 145, 5x5 and progressing.

>>42415755
>strong legs
>can barely 1pl8

brah i started with a 225 1rm as a scrawny high school kid.

>>42415815
Sounds like he needs to add more weight.
If you're not struggling, you're not gaining

>>42415769
they are bumper weights I can select any size. would you normally go down like 20lb in this situation? I could only safely do 3 reps.
>>42415817
>>42415779
I am older and I sit on a computer all day. My legs felt nothing, and did not get DOMS at all. It was entirely my lower back being incapable of supporting me

I don't really track stats on my lifts, i'm just a typical guy in his 30s doing brosplits and looking at girls butts when I can

>>42415817

Atg or 1/8th rep?

>>42415752
Lumbar muscle. It grows. Radially along its axis. Some of it will push into skeleton. When skeleton area consists of many small repeating bones separated by discs of cartilage it's bad. Upper back muscles are arranged differently so not an issue there. Lower back tightly packed and should not be trained much above what is required for normal function.

>>42415832
I struggle on the last set, as does he. Question was, am I cheating by doing it to fast... as a matter of proper form?

>>42415846
this is unfounded broscience

>>42415771
Bar speed is something Westside barbell looks for in training. Faster the better, that is.

>>42415846

>Trump University graduate

>>42415839
3x3 is pretty normal for diddlies.
They're not something you should be worrying about doing a lot of reps/sets.

If you're just starting deadlifts, then definitely go down to 25lb bumpers on the bar, and go through the motions.
Once you're confident, add more until you feel your form slipping.

>>42415874
Why you think people involved in manual labor (i.e. Digging with lower back involvement) have a lot of lower back problems later in life?

>>42415898
I'm gonna do 1x5 I haven't seen anyone advise 3x3 for some time

I'm the guy on here who always says "you did not perform a rep unless your form was perfect" and even then deads scare the shit out of me, especially as a slightly older and less injury tolerant guy

>>42415915
because they performed hard manual labor for years anon not because of fucking spinal erector hypertrophy. jesus christ.

bending not at the waist/twisting/rounding back constantly etc, takes a toll. not related to hypertrophy

>>42414743
lemme tell you about the trip to snap city with deads. motherfuckers try and make sound like it's a jet flight direct to snap city or a fucking hyper loop, it's not. it's a longass bus ride there with plenty of opportunities to get off. the dudes that make the full journey there decide to continue sitting on the bus after every potential stop, after every time their body announces to them "and in x stops we'll reach beautiful snap city".

Yes, there's a point where even with trying deliberately to have good form you might hop on the bus right outside of the limits of snap city but I guarantee you that isn't where you're standing. That's another zip code dude, that's another fucking state. Don't get me wrong, some dudes start out in the same state as snap city but these guys CHOSE to move there in the first place no matter how many people told them it's a bad area

>>42415937
Takes a toll yes. But how? Muscle becomes big, yes. Pushes into everything around it to include spine (skin on the opposite side). Spine, it consists of bone and cartilage discs. As the system of these two is pressed upon, they do not get depressed equally sometimes. I.e the cartilage disc being attached to other tissues didn't move the same lengsth as the 2 adjacent bones. Normally it does, and this is a rare occurrence, but when it does occur that is exactly the reason for having a protruding disc.

>>42414819
i agree, DAILY REMINDER
deadlifts even with perfect form down the line will result in an arthritic lower back, same with bent over barbell rows, please save urselves some pain in the future my bros

>>42416021
If you do deads rights, then you have no lower back motion. Dead straight. No torsion or twist or arching or anything at all.
Arthritis comes from constant motion and wearing down of the lubricating material between joints.

>>42416018
you don't understand human anatomy and physiology

people who do manual labor have bad back problems because they shoveled twisting at the waist halfway bent over for 25 years or whatever. you are basically outthinking yourself. it's simple.

>>42415771
total of 1 seconds to go up, 4 seconds down. if you need to pause between every rep you need to think about the condition you're in and if this is the correct weight for you. CONTROLLING the weight when you descend is also a critical part of the movement, Dorian Yates went to absolute failure on his workouts doing reps to failure on the eccentric portion of a lift after he went to failure on the concentric.

>>42414743
Don't lift in USA, there are no cities called Snap outside of it.

>>42416071

Why the fuck do DYELs like you cite people on ridiculous amounts of exogenous hormones as if it actually means anything in the concept of natural training.

>>42414764
with the deadlift that's not really true in my experience. time under tension is a bodybuilding maxim, for powerlifting it's all about committing to the numbers you've laid out in your program and getting them done no matter what.

>>42416046
If I don't understand AnP how come I scored in 90th percentile on MCAT this summer and will be going on med school interviews in September?

>>42416021
>same with bent over barbell rows,
Really? Don't fuck with me.

>>42416099
>as if it actually means anything in the concept of natural training

???

I mentioned Yates because he's a world famous body builder that incorporated eccentric training into his routine. I assumed more people would have heard of him giving the concept more weight. Negative training is also used for the elderly, recommended for those that can't do pull-ups and is well studied for the past 100 years. I believe Candito also recommended controlled eccentric motions in some of his routines as well, obviously for naturals.

>>42416178
>>42416099

Dorian Yates and loads of other bodybuilders doesn't come from a viewpoint of science and evidence-based training. Even if people like Candito recommends it, Yates would recommend it for a completely different reason.

That reason? Negatives give crazy DOMS, and DOMS equals gains, according to Yates. It's really all that's based on.

>>42416021
why and how? the motion in your lower back is absolutely minimal on deadlifts. unless you got major duck-ass.

>>42416021
>source needed

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>>42415846

>>42416251
That's pretty reasonable. However, in his recent appearance on the Joe Rogan podcast Yates emphasized how much studying he did to perfect his routine and claimed it was all based on the science at the time. No mention of DOMS = gains specifically *but* he may have implied it when he was talking about how hard his workout was or not being to function after a leg day.

>>42416303
Yes, I just watched that and multiple other videos & small clips straight after and it's very obvious he values DOMS over everything else. It's not a good workout if you can walk normally or something like that.

I also heard that he studied a lot, but that's a long time ago. Probably a lot of outdated information etc.

>>42414743
>>Scared
I think this is the thread for you >>42394143

You should stay away from lifting, it's pretty scary as a whole.

>>42416099
Because steroids only Make your body more effecient. They dont change the fundamentals of how it works.

>>42415809
Your knees will be fucked if you don't do something else for your hammies.

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Deadlifts are great if you're not a human being and you never make mistakes.

>>42416117
Because you're a memorizer, not an understander.

I have never been impressed by a doctor in my life. Almost every doctor I've met seems like a 110-120 iq type, I am in the 130s

>>42416117
You are actually retarded if you think that lower back hyperteophy is the cause of back pain. Manual laborers have back pain because they don't lift properly, often because their backs aren't strong enough, they don't know proper form, or they're just tired. They are constantly hunched over and lifting with a curved lower back. Lifting loads with a curved lower back instead of a neutral one produces shearing and compression forces on your discs, leading to bulging discs and disc degeneration over time. Their erector spinae will hyperteophy over time due to their repeated flexion and extension, but that is not the cause of the pain. You are conflating a symptom of poor form with the cause.

Also go jerk off about being a doctor elsewhere m8, nobody cares. Most medical advice with regards to fitness is basically broscience, half of what you are taught in med school is outdated by the time you graduate: they can't keep up with the volume of research. Podiatrists still wreck people's shins, knees, and gait by recommending high cushion shoes, when all available evidence for the past 20 years has shown they are causally linked to shin splints, knee and lower back problems, and poor running and walking form.

>>42416586
It's not so much about lifting with flexion. Strongman lift with pretty severe flexion all the time when picking up stones and whatnot. You can get away with it pretty safely when the load is not near maximum.

It's about movement under load, even light ones. Stability is the most important thing. It's better to have constant flexed back than to move from extended to flexed during a lift.

>>42416547
>I have never been impressed by a doctor in my life
You have never had to seek out a specialist.

>>42415697

This won't happen unless you are VERY fragile, even with bad form. 1pl8 isn't enough weight to distort your skeletal system

Everyone in this thread acting like humans are fragile little toys instead of primates evolved to withstand extreme physical pressure

>>42416688
Yes, I have, quite a few times

Doctors will be made irrelevant by computers in an extremely short amount of time. Doctors are people who memorized a lot. That is literally all.

>>42415162
Yeah also don't forget to use gloves while you deadlift and you can also use them to jerk your boyfriend

>>42416117
I scored in the 97th bitch
See you in interviews SON

I did 225 today and it's only my second time doing diddlies. How good is this?

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>>42417027
I think I saw you at the gym

>>42416709
Maybe in 200 years. People in 60s though we'd be all interstellar by now. Instead all we did was make powerful computers small, invent smartphones and keep fighting meaningless wars.

>>42415817
I'm guessing he's a manlet with a big squat, and you're a lanklet.

>>42416000
Kek, this is the best advice in the thread

>>42416531
Thanks for scaring the shit out of me anon

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>>42414819
Good to know, anon.

>>42415792
>It's cheating even though literally every federation allows you to lift quickly!
Into the trash it goes

>>42419821
Who gives a shit about meaningless dick measuring
If you want to build strength and mass, you need to do it slow and controlled.

>>42416021
Wow, cool source, faggot.

>>42419846
But that's wrong, and you would know that if you had spent those six months lifting instead of jerking yourself off in the local Gold's.

>>42414743
Do low bar squats which are L I T E R A L L Y the same motion. In deadlift, the weight of the bar is ultimately spread across your shoulders. In squat, same thing, just doesn't involve your arms gripping a bar at an awkward bent over position. Do squats and pullups for grip, you're g2g..

Anyone here visit Snap city? How is it?

>>42419889
this, you get volume either way

>>42414743
Ayy

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>>42419897

>>42419897
But what about muh traps?

>>42420048
This is why Sumofags should fuck off

>>42414819
OMG thank you I am never doing deadlifts again! Fucking faggot.

>>42417045
Goodness fuck are his legs broken? How can you even use pure back on a dead without reevaluating your life choices?

>>42419846
This shit right here. All ego lifting will get you is a one way, non refundable, overnight bus ticket to snap city.

Take your time brehs. If half hour burnout work outs are a bad idea to you then you should recognize ego lifting for what it is.

>accurate

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SaYX-7emO4U

>>42415839
Your hip hinge has never been trained. That's your problem.

So what makes the deadlift worth the risk?

>>42420321
fucking hell, thanks to this comment I was expecting him to snap his knees backwards and he lifted the bar up

That was a tense webm

>>42414752
>>Not learning proper form before you go heavy
>>Not learning to maintain that form even while going heavy
>not having this knowledge burned into your dna from millennia of deadlifter dna in your genepool all the way back to the ancient Babylonians
going heavy is maymay

>>42415771
Literally depends on what kind of training you are doing. If you are doing 8-12 reps theres no reason to be blasting it up and down.

>>42415755
>I have relatively strong legs
how can you be this delusional? why do the complete dyels always think they're strong while the decently strong guys think they're too weak?

>>42414743
No matter your form they put your lumbar spine and discs under pressure, it's inevitable.

>>42420010
Well I have a protruding disc at L5/S1 which is basically the forerunner for a bulging disc, it's not too bad and it actually can heal so I am just kind of not doing deadlifts for the time being, everytime I try again I remember why I shouldn't do them, I don't even have bad form, although it could probably be better but never lifted with a rounded back or anything like that.

>>42414819
What the fuck I hate deadlifts now.

>>42416000
Fucking this desu

>>42415846
There is no "lumbar muscle". If you're going to spout bullshit at least make it semi believable

>>42419821
you're retarded
he's talking about the tendon-snapping jerking, where you get some momentum before you start pulling and try to yank it off the ground with that. THAT will fuck you up

>>42415771
The longer your rep takes the more energy you're expending fighting gravity.

If your goal is massive 1rms you want your rep to be as fast as possible

Are rolling deadlifts better? I started doing them a few months ago since I saw all the monster sized guys did them but at the same time rubish doesn't so maybe it's a meme.

>>42414743
readstartingstrength.pdf

>>42415339
You realize rack pulls put even more tension in your lower back and CNS than deads right? What the hell is the benefit of doing those supposed to be?

>>42415771
I do it fast in big lifts (in strength rep ranges, eg 5x5) and slow and controlled for accessory work for hypertrophy (more like 8-12 reps)

Seems like the most reasonable to me

>>42415814
Well, I suppose you're not wrong? Fast twitch muscles are just muscles that are used in powerful and forceful movements. A slow, pause bench press doesn't avoid using fast twitch fibers because it's slow. And all muscles have a combination of fast and slow twitch muscles, it's not "one or the other" in a lift

>>42416729
I-is that you, Chris?

>>42415917
1x5 is pretty shit, I haven't seen anyone with a good deadlift recommending it unless they were trying to maintain strength in it. 3x3 or a 5-3-1 pyramid are pretty good for deadlifts

>>42414743
My nigga my shit is all snapped up. And once ur shit snaps its never the same again say goodbye to a normal range of motion. 0/10 would not reccomend