>Want to get stronger >/fit/ recommends a strength program

Turns out getting stronger makes you look better

>>42324280
No. Strength programs are very effective for naturals especially beginners because getting strong has a very strong correlation with getting bigger. In any case you'd want to build up a strength base before moving onto other goals.

>>42324292
>the strength base meme

>>42324321
You can't quote something and add "-meme" to it to argue against it, that is a non sequitur.

>>42324321
Let me ask you, usually who is bigger, the guy benching 135 for reps or the guy benching 225 for reps?

>>42324344
so? you will make strength gains on a brosplit

>>42324344
the guy doing slow and controlled curls with 20 pound dumbells
>>42324355
and your progress will be garbage

>>42324286
Turns out training for hypertrophy makes you look best.

>>42324280
you're probably so scrawny that it doesn't matter what routine you do anyway.
literally just wave a dumbell around a couple times a week and start seeing gains

>>42324344
My chest didn't start getting bigger till I started including 20 rep sets of 1pl8 instead of focusing on 5-8 range.

>>42324344
>The guy benching 225 for reps
>reps
Since when are powerfliters repping anything? 15 reps isn't shit.

The guy who benches 135 for 5 sets of 12 with a 5-1-5 tempo is stronger than the guy who benches 135 for 3 sets of 5 for a 1-1-1 tempo. Also the guy who was in the 5 sets of 12 range for the longest time has probably put on the most tissue growth.

>>42324355
You might but the gains would be negligible. Curling 25lbs on arm day once a week, you might get to 30 lbs in a year! It's just better to be strong and be able to lift more weight because your body responds to large weight with growth. There is such a thing as strength carryover, which is why a guy who benches high, can curl high too. And big biceps come from HEAVY curls. If you lift purely for hypertrophy, on a brosplit, you're never gonna get anywhere (unless you're on gear). Trust me bro, I know a guy who wasted a whole year at the gym doing a brosplit with his roidmonkey friends. He's still as skinny as the day he walked into the gym

>>42324408
>benching 225 makes you a "powerlifter"

to look better, just diet.

To build muscle do a bro split. 6 days a week.

If you don't want big legs don't squat or train legs. Just do biceps and chest.

>>42324425
No, doing a 3x5 scheme makes you a powerlifter, or a know-nothing internet faggot who got his program online and ends up doing a powerlifting program without realizing he's wasting his time if his goal was actually to put on muscle and look better naked

wat

>>42324280
almost like getting stronger means getting bigger if you're natty

>>42324433
>3x5 is powerlifting
>not 5/3/1

>>42324344
You get bigger from progressive overload, volume, and eating enough. There's no "base level of strength" that allows your body to suddenly unlock the ability to build muscle. The guy benching 135 for a controlled 4x12 and who bumps it up to 140 next week will end up bigger than the guy benching 225 for 3x5.

>>42324447
All of that shit sucks, unless you're playing the sport of powerlifting, in which case, you don't care about how you look.

99% of people who come here looking for advice are not powerlifters, they want to just look better. Those who choose 5/3/1, 5x5, SL, SS, GSLP, whatever else 3-day-a-week linear progression, all end up unhappy with their slow-gains.

>>42324465
I'm not unhappy with my slow gains

>>42324428
Ok dyel here, what's a brosplit

>>42324486
Chest/triceps, back/biceps, legs, shoulders

>>42324496
Why shoulders by themselves??

>>42324503
yes.

>>42324486
"Brosplit" refers to any routine that hits each muscle group once a week e.g. chest day, back day, shoulder day, legs day, arm day (or biceps day, triceps day)

>>42324486
Work one body part a day vigorously.

When I first started lifting I came here for advice and people were telling me so many things I said fuck it and made my own workout that's basically an upper lower split including some meme lifts with only a dirt cheap Wal-Mart bench and I'm looking great and am stronger than I've ever been
Yes there are ways to break it down and make the most super efficient science based routines and count every calorie and vitamin but unless you want to be the next Mr Olympia stop over analyzing it and just go lift some weights until your muscles get tired

>>42324344
>benching heavy
>thanks to SS
yeah, benching 15 or 30 reps per fucking week is going to get you 225 faster than any program. Expending most of your energy doing squats really builds your bench too.

>>42324292
>strength base
*in you quads only

>>42324386
Turns out hypertrophy in the first year makes you as weak as you were at dyel mode. Not trolling.

>>42324280
>want to get fit
>go to a fucking meme loving place and no other
>complain when you get meme'd

so bros if for bench I am doing the 5/3/1 scheme with 1 pl8, does that make me a powerlifter?

>>42324553
Taking into consideration that we are on 4chan and a lot of people on here sit on their ass a good chunk of the day... maybe even at their job as well...building strong legs and a strong back as a main priority isn't bad advice at all. A bro split for someone who does physical labor as their primary job (concrete layer, drywall hanger/finisher, etc.) wouldn't be bad for a beginner though.

You need a strength base to get the best hypertrophy results, at least that's what i learned

>>42324553
>>strength base
>*in you quads only

What ?

>>42324394
Learn about different rep ranges, 5 and fast reps is for strength, 10-15 slow is for hypertrophy

What is wrong with me when I can bench 1.5x my body weight but can't even squat my own body weight? Is my squat form just fucked up or is it possible my body is just that unbalanced?

Beginner routines that focus on heavy, progressive overloading compounds are brilliant because they train the CNS of noob lifters to be able to handle heavy loads. Six months on SS is going to give you much better conditioning than fucking around got 6 months on some roidmonkey's high rep split when you can't even bench 1pl8.

Your body will actually be conditioned to lift heavy for high reps, which is what is necessary for whatever aesthetics you're looking for.

>>42324691
What don't you understand? Do you know what a quadricep is?
Do you know the primary muscle worked during squats? SS has you squatting 45 reps per week and benching 15 reps per week. That's why successful 'graduates' of SS have giant quads and shitty arms and shoulders.

>>42324765
>He thinks SS is the only beginner program you can do to build a strength base

You're arguing against something I never said.

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>>42324280
>time to do some chesd fliyes to gedda bihg chesd :--DDDD
>bengch is bad for ur sholders dont benjch xD

>>42324321
what builds a biggest chest, getting your dumbbell flies up from 20lbs to 30lbs? or getting your bench up from 135 to 185?

>>42324280
First you need to get strong before you can look better.

>>42324386
Unfortunately >>42324558 is right. I did a PPL split for my first 6 months of training and made really shit progression. Switched to an actual powerlifting routine with high volume and made much much faster progress.

>>42324743
What're your lifts for SQ, DL, BP and OHP? What's your weight and time training? That sounds really fucking weird.

>>42324765
Squatting is top fucking tier for conditioning your CNS. CNS conditioning is essential for lifting heavier and with more intensity in ALL lifts. That's why heavy squatting is great for new lifters. Also, if done correctly you're going to be off a beginner program with around 6 months if you really push yourself. Good luck building 'giant quads' in 6 months of lifetime training.

>>42324503
you want big capped delts don't you?


supplementing with tren helps.

>>42324334
>the non sequitur meme

>>42324805
Only 4 months.
Weight: 145 lbs
Squat: I struggle 3x5 135lbs
DL: 175lbs 1x5
BP: hit 250lbs 3x5 recently
OHP: 110lbs 3x5

>>42324884
wtf...?

There is no way your deadlift and squat is that low after 4 months of lifting. Are you just not adding weight to it for some reason?

>250lb bench press for reps
Are you touching your chest on each rep? That is an advanced bench press for your weight

>>42324884
You're either
a) e-stating, ie trolling
b) doing quarter reps
c) genetically the greatest bencher in human history

So yea, you're lying or cheating. Which one is it?

>>42324805
Giant quads are ugly

>Spending six months pouring your heart and soul into squats for muh CNS gains when your goal is aesthetics

You could actually be aesthetic after six months. Why wait six months to even start progressing towards aesthetics?

>>42324958
No you cannot be aesthetic in 6 months.

But by all means go ahead and do a roidersplit.

>>42324884
Troll detected. No way you're benching 250 for reps at 145 bodyweight. Did you mean 150 for reps?

Post video, bro.

>>42324981
150lbs bench at 145 bodyweight is actually really good

>>42324799
Post the two routines.

>>42324905
Yes, I touch my chest when I bench. Benching feels more natural to me for some reason. I add weight when I squat and deadlift but I'm also a little nervous of injuring myself so if I don't feel like my sets went perfect, I don't add weight. I also feel pain behind my knees after workouts quite often; more than I would like for sure.

>>42324952
Giant quads take intensive training at high weights to develop. They don't spring up on new lifters after 6 months of SS

>>42324958
You're a fucking clown. Found a pic of (you)

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>>42324958

>>42325037
>Yes, I touch my chest when I bench. Benching feels more natural to me for some reason.

Okay well you have an advanced bench press somehow but yet your squat and deadlift are what you should be doing for no longer than a month.

>I add weight when I squat and deadlift but I'm also a little nervous of injuring myself so if I don't feel like my sets went perfect, I don't add weight

How much do you add? Because even if you started at just the bar for squats (this is horribly low), you should be at AT LEAST 225lbs by now. If you're squatting 3x a week that's 48 squat sessions. And you're only at 135?

>>42325062
It's obviously a troll dude. Stop giving him attention.

I checked some of my (small) country's powerlifting records and he would literally have the national bench record (assuming he can hit his calc 1rm) for his weight class by 3kg. He says he's lifted for 4 months.

Ignore him.

>>42324981
I'll try to remember to post a video Monday. All I have is a power rack, bench, and the plates. My home gym is also outside under a tent in my backyard. Unfortunately, my tent has ripped a bit because I live in FL and we get t-storms here quite a bit so my equipment is a bit rusty. I'll also have to find someone to record.

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>>42325041
>>42325050
and a picture of you

>>42325103
darn it

>>42325062
Like I said, I don't add weight all the time and when I do; it's 5 lbs. I believe I have knee problems. I'm afraid of tearing something. I'm not sure what it would be but the pain is behind the knees.

>>42325149
Stop larping faggot.

>>42325103
I fuckin can...

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>>42325167
The jig is up you faggot. It's obvious you're lying.

LEAVE!
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>>42325103
Also how is your powerlifting records so fucking shit?

In my country he'd have to beat bench 182.5 kg at 66kg BW to get the record.

>>42325187
His country is St Christopher and the Grenadines, not really known for their olympic athleticism.

>>42325182
okay, have a sad cum when I post a video Monday

>>42325204
PLEASE DO

i would pay anything to see you bench 250x5 at 145lbs bw.

>>42325204
Shut the fuck up until you post the video, faggot.

>>42325187
NZ is small and power lifting is niche as fuck. Especially in such a light weight class
>>42325204
Post I now you manlet.

E-statters are so pathetic. This board attracts losers for some reason

>>42325236
Made me look up the records in my country...

fuck dude over 3x bodyweight bench press. That's insane.

>>42325241
My original intention was not to "e-stat" but was originally posted because someone asked about my stats as I'm concerned of my abnormal lifting balance and a little concerned if I should keep upping my bench if my other lifts are stalling. Posture and stuff already isn't the best.

>>42325236
>>42325281
ok not over 3x, quite a bit less than 3x actually lol but still... 5lbs off 4plate bench press at such a light weight as 66kg...

>>42324280

you look so shit that just lifting a weight will help

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>>42324280
Alright. I'm tired of explaining this very basic concept to you folks. So I'm just going to write it out one more time and copy it down for future use

Training consists of two such muscle growths.
>Sarcoplasmic hypertrophy
>Myofibrillar hypertrophy
Sarcoplasmic hypertrophy is when the area around the myofibrils expands while Myofibrillar hypertrophy is when the total volume of myofibrils themselves expand.

To find out why these two types of hypertrophy are evolutionary advantageous. We must consider two such training methods
>High reps, low intensity
>low reps, high intensity
The first produces sarcoplasmic hypertrophy for obvious reasons. Myofibrils themselves are not fatigued, but lack the necessary energy to produce force. This fatigues the muscle fibers because there is no more energy to give to the myofibrils. This provides an adaptation to create more area for which stored energy can stay
The second produces myofibrillar hypertrophy with similar thinking. Myofibrillar hypertrophy occurs when there is not enough myofibrils to produce force. The body hence adapts to make the myofibrils longer and create more of them.

Now, we must understand what is necessary for athletes to create as much muscle as possible in a small amount of time. Sarcoplasmic hypertrophy is an obvious answer because myofibrils are more difficult to attain. And in any theoretically setting, you'd be right to train solely for sarcoplasmic hypertrophy. However, reality is not theoretical. This is for two reasons

The amount of myofibrils that are gained in sarcoplasmic training are limited. However as myofibrils grow in size, the sarcoplasm inside a muscle fiber HAS to increase alongside the myofibril.

Also, novices are unable to push themselves at the rate required of optimal sarcoplasmic hypertrophy. A simple routine such as SS pushes novices to increase weight every session to force myofibrillar hypertrophy

Never take advice from first year lifters. They don't know shit.

>>42325284
Your lifts aren't stalling.

Either you're severely injured in the lower body in which case you need to see a doctor, or you're just not doing deadlifting or benching at all, or you're literally lifting the same weight every single week for some reason.

>>42325297
My nigga.

>>42325301
Stop replying to him. Its obviously fake.

>>42325284
>My original intention was not to "e-stat"
Wait, you actually admitted to e-statting? That must be a first. What's your actual bench, and before you answer, please keep in mind video proof is required from you from now on.

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>>42325297
>explains why SS would be bad for hypertrophy
>recommends SS for novices anyhow
Posters like you are the most devilish of them all.

By all means, believe that spending your first year of working out 3 times per week for a total of 125 reps per week is really going to do anything other than teach you to have shitty form and chase numbers on your lower exercise selection.

>>42325328
250lbs... e-statting means making up numbers? If so, who am I trying to impress? Why would I post only one stat that is impressive to the /fit/ community? I thought if people were going to be talking shit about me, it would have been calling me a manlet or something related to my body weight

>>42325394
>shitty form

wat

Again, why do you believe SS is the ONLY strength-based program for beginners? How many times do we have to say that there's other options out there for fullbody routines that are NOT ss and have more upperbody volume?

>>42325394
>shitty form
Can you quote on what page Rip is propagating bad form?

>>42325394
>By all means, believe that spending your first year of working out 3 times per week for a total of 125 reps per week is really going to do anything other than teach you to have shitty form and chase numbers on your lower exercise selection.

I can't see why you would say that. The book dedicates the majority of its length to form, and it makes for most of the information about SS being discussed. So if you do the program correctly, you will be consistently checking your form, particularly because the program expects you to continually add more weight which would be massively uncomfortable and dangerous if you have shitty form. And you care about the strength gains because that is literally the main purpose of the program, if you didn't care about your numbers in some way why would you be doing SS?

>>42325394
m8 read the entire post you fucking faggot
>The amount of myofibrils that are gained in sarcoplasmic training are limited. However as myofibrils grow in size, the sarcoplasm inside a muscle fiber HAS to increase alongside the myofibril.
>Also, novices are unable to push themselves at the rate required of optimal sarcoplasmic hypertrophy. A simple routine such as SS pushes novices to increase weight every session to force myofibrillar hypertrophy
Disprove this

Admittedly I was running into the 2000 character limit and had to snuff a few things. But ultimately the concept remains

>Sarcoplasmic hypertrophy = sarcoplasmic hypertrophy
>Myofibrillar hypertrophy = myofibrillar hypertrophy + sarcoplasmic hypertrophy

You get less sarcoplasmic hypertrophy when training for strength, but you get no myofibrillar hypertrophy when training for volume. This, along side the
>Novices can't complete high reps/low intensity with as much efficiency to warrant adaptation of sarcoplasm
means that a strength based program is necessary for optimal training of the untrained population. When the untrained athlete turns into an intermediate athlete, the athlete has formed enough mind/muscle connections to be able to stress the muscle for sarcoplasmic hypertrophy more effectively.
There is no disproving this. You are a giant flaming faggot and don't know the science.

>>42325413
>>42325448
>>42325426
I never said SS is the only strength-based program. There's also SL and GSLP.

5x5 programs have their place, but they're not the best option for beginning skinnyfat lifters.

5x5 LPs are great for intermediates, as well as high school athletes who are getting extra conditioning from playing their sport.

What I see more often than not of gym-goers trying to follow an LP is the will sacrifice form to hit their next 2.5lb increase, because they're obsessively focusing on sticking to a schedule. This is bad, this is why new lifters shouldn't do LPs. This is why they get hurt or develop unevenly. New lifters aren't walking in with coaches to keep them honest, the way a high school athlete would. Rippetoe doesn't manifest out of the book like a hologram to spot check you.

A much better path for a new lifter is workout more frequently, at a safer weight for their joints, progressing by increasing sets, reps, and then weight, in that order, and having a larger number of exercises, and a working range of 4-6 sets for 8-20 reps. After about a year, then hopping on a 5x5 if their numbers were still low.

>>42324280
>When I first started lifting I came here for advice and people were telling me so many things I said fuck it and made my own workout that's basically an upper lower split including some meme lifts with only a dirt cheap Wal-Mart bench and I'm looking great and am stronger than I've ever been
>Yes there are ways to break it down and make the most super efficient science based routines and count every calorie and vitamin but unless you want to be the next Mr Olympia stop over analyzing it and just go lift some weights until your muscles get tired


All of this. Just put in the work and try your best not to eat complete garbage all the time.

>>42325472
>What I see more often than not of gym-goers trying to follow an LP is the will sacrifice form to hit their next 2.5lb increase, because they're obsessively focusing on sticking to a schedule. This is bad, this is why new lifters shouldn't do LPs. This is why they get hurt or develop unevenly.

??? If your reps are grindy as fuck or you have to sacrifice form then you did not "complete" your sets, and you re-do the weight next time and if it's the same shit you deload.

No one is saying "good morning your squat", "grind out your deadlift for 15 second" and "rip your ass off the bench to push up the bar with all your might in the bench press" all to increase the weight for next session.

This is ridiculous. You're making beginner lifters look like babies when they're smarter than that.

>>42324280
everyone knows this whole board is just a circle jerk of narcissism, getting strong/aesthetic/fit isn't complicated

>>42324321
/ourguy/ eric bugenhagen said something about that.

"If you want to look like you lift, bench 315 and deadlift 495."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gcr4aVLHaXI

>>42324280
fucking retard you get big if you train big and eat big cmon 6 scoops

>>42325483
>beginning lifters are smart, they will never have sacrifice form for their egos or trying to stay on schedule
>but they cannot handle something as complicated as changing the reps and sets, so they need to just add 2.5lb and stay on schedule

>>42325518
He's also lifted for 19 years and is probably gear.

>>42325518
>0:50
>[people] are always doing too much, unless they're a super-new lifter
This implies that super-new lifters are lifting either too low volume or too low frequency, both things that happen when you do SS/SL/GSLP.

>1:04
>...don't lift 3 days a week, especially if you're new! If you're new to lifting, you're still making newb gains, lift every single day.
Again, this is counter to SS/SL/GSLP

>>42325472
>What I see more often than not of gym-goers trying to follow an LP is the will sacrifice form to hit their next 2.5lb increase, because they're obsessively focusing on sticking to a schedule. This is bad, this is why new lifters shouldn't do LPs. This is why they get hurt or develop unevenly. New lifters aren't walking in with coaches to keep them honest, the way a high school athlete would. Rippetoe doesn't manifest out of the book like a hologram to spot check you.

Okay, that is reasonable to me. But if you're truly absorbing what the program is trying to tell you, you will be mindful of that shit, because you have no choice. Grinding out reps is stupid exactly because you will stall and/or hurt yourself. So if you don't listen to the program you are unable to follow the program.

>>42325483
>??? If your reps are grindy as fuck or you have to sacrifice form then you did not "complete" your sets, and you re-do the weight next time and if it's the same shit you deload.

Yeah but if you're a totally uninformed beginner and you got onto SS because everyone said it was the best path to pursue, it is highly likely you will fuck up because it's a dangerous rate of progression for somebody without access to coaching

Man you're so right
I'll recommend you a plastic surgeon right away

>>42325975
not an argument

>>42324280
>Do strength until 1/2/3/4
>Do hypertrophy afterwards
>the do strength again until 2/3/4/5
It's not hard anon

>>42324386
>not having a hypertrophy phase to accumulate fatigue before going for a pr in a few weeks

>>42324433
I'm taking on a PPL split from BB.com, good reviews

https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=149807833

The compounds consist of 3x5 tho

>>42324496
That's almost PPL not bro split

>>42324386
turns out if you are natty hypertrophy is a meme

>>42324884
250 for 3x5 at that body weight? Pussy. I'm 110lbs and just hit 310lbs on my 2nd week of training

ITT: op is repping two digits for 50x10 and looks like a lesbian midget tranny

>all these people dissing SS and other strength routines because they are too afraid to lift heavy ass weight

Enjoy your fluff and pump routines, kids. You'll stall after your newbie gains and have no strength base.

>>42327040
I realised this quite quickly

SS for 3 months, ICF 5x5 after that. That's the way to go.

You're retarded if you think starting out doing 15 reps biceps curls with 10kg is going to give you nice arms. You need a good base of strength before you can get big. Have you ever seen any aesthetically built guy who works out with 60kg at the bench press? I don't think so.

strength base is a meme, and i train for strength

bodybuilding is all about volume work

the only valid argument is that natty bodybuilding is a meme anyway size-wise (at most athletic mode) so you may train for strength as well. But strength training will not give better hypertrophy unless you neglect certain muscle groups in a brosplit

>>42327119
I know a few, they do only light bench work and then move to machine chest isolations. Chest as big as mine, and I bench 3 pl8. Stop spouting this SS bullshit, there's not 1 single way to get big

>>42327040
This.

>>42327119
>do a beginner routine for 3 months, then do another beginner routine
What the fuck are you talking about?

>>42327141
I am willing to bet that they didn't start out working out like that. I am also willing to bet that they are working out with more than 60kg.

I challenge any DYEL lifter who is just starting out to do these meme "muscle mind connection" workouts for 3 months and see how much muscle they're able to put on. I am willing to bet that it's close to none.

>>42327151
You're still a beginner after 3 months, you know.

ICF is much higher volume than SS and is also focused on hypertrophy together with strength progression. It's a great program.

>>42327157
This. Muscle mind connection and that Kai Greene monologue bullshit he gives is a load of crap.

Steroids is all that matters. There is no "feeling" the muscle with lighter weight. You can pack on size no matter the weight with PEDs.

>>42327157
I got up to 17.5" arms ripped/athletic mode doing only a home dumbbell workout, stayed about the same size through the years as I'm now only training for fun (i.e. strength), focussing mostly on contraction times under tension etc.

it's legit advice, the thing why brosplitters tend to make nogains in some cases is that they don't eat enough. Progressive overload isn't strictly adding more weight, controlling your tension times and reducing leverages is a way to progressively overload as well.

I just started lifting a couple weeks ago.

I'm skinnyfat and this board told me if I do greyskull and lift at a slight cut I could look more asthetic.
This still true?

>>42327169
Show a picture of your arms with measuring tape.

>>42327169
and the "focussing on contraction times" was meant for my old home dumbbell workout, not strength training these days of course lel

>>42327172
Greyskull is a great program. Add some arm work and trap work if you want.

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>>42327174
not doing that just to prove a point, but here's an old picture from that time. Height is 6'3". Adjustable dumbbell and plenty of ways to stimulate growth because I didn't have access to a barbell gym at the time.

>>42327179
I'm doing phraks version.
But as a newbie can I still make gains eating around 1800 cals a day?

>>42327169
>the thing why brosplitters tend to make nogains in some cases is that they don't eat enough

Protein synthesis lasts for about 48 hours, hence working out your muscles once a week as a natural lifter is terrible for gains. When on steroids protein synthesis lasts about a week, which makes brosplits perfect for gains when you're on juice. Those workouts are great for steroid users.

WHAT DO YOU GUYS THINK WILL MAKE YOUR CHEST BIGGER:

TAKING YOUR BENCH FROM 135 TO 225

OR

DOING INCLINE BENCH, FLAT BENCH, DUMBBELL FLYES AND PEC DECK FOR 3X12

>>42327166
For most people linear progression on SS lasts for about 4 months, maybe longer if they're eating a lot or have a good athletic background/genetics.
Doing another linear/daily progression routine afterwards (with even more volume) is impossible unless you pick low weights. I mean that's fine, but why wouldn't you do an intermediate routine designed for your strength level and lift heavier weights instead?

>>42327181
Timestamp or gtfo

>>42327188
with brosplit i meant a push/pull, which usually trains each muscle twice a week (also what I did, with changed exercises). I never did a 5 day split either

>>42327206
>by saying "apples" I mean "orange"

>>42327183
Depends on your weight really and your height

>>42327194
hi eric

>>42324355
Not really

>>42327203
lad I posted a picture from me at that time where I trained only with dumbbells. Push/pull split, focus on both tension times and progressive overload in general, after a big bulk and cut. Total time training was around 2 years in that picture, but size-wise I remained the same for the past 5 years while getting stronger.


You could say I chose the other path, got a nice size-base with hypertrophy work and then chose to get my CNS on par.

>>42324408
Literally no one cares about tempo you fucking idiot.

>>42324548
Not everyone is retarded tho

>>42327181
It's the "oh what this great physique? It's nothing, just ate pizza and bicep curled abit ;)" post

>>42327218
5'8 and around 150 lbs

holy shit I'm so underwhelmed. I just want to get aesthetic.
I'm 96kg and 184cm, and I want to loose like 30kg. Don't care about strength. Fixed my diet for over 2months now (lost 6kg) and looking for a routine. last time I was hear, it was SS all the way, but what's this hypertrophy stuff?

>>42327268
also, don't want to do squats because my thighs are naturally big and just want them skinny.

>>42327252
You dont need to lose weight. Just lift weights and eat a clean diet with a maintenance caloric intake with more protein

>>42327244
I was in my "just discovered /fit/" phase in 2010 with zyzz and all, I trained 5 times a week while bulking hard to stretchmark-mode prior to that picture. Big amount of volume makes you grow on a caloric surplus, simple as that. Progressive overload is key (on a personal level).

The strength base is insofar good as it teaches you proper form with barbells and may prevent imbalances, but as said there is not one and only one single way to get bigger, and (atleast in my opinion) strength training isn't the MOST optimal way to reach your natty limit. (or 95% of your natty limit, i.e. when you begin to stall hard size-wise and it doesn't matter whether you trained 3 or 6 years).

>>42327274
>"my thighs are naturally big"

>t. every single dyel before they start lifting

>>42327268
Everyone online: Do 3 times a week full body like SS, GS, 5x5 etc
Everyone at the gym you looks in shape: 3x8-12 rep range body part splits.

They literally never heard of starting meme. So not sure who I am going to trust. Some autists or actual people that go to the gym and have results.

I think it must be settled once and for all that these beginner programs are a fucking meme. They dont work. Slow progress and 0 results. I train since 8 years and never have I seen someone IRL that started with a Str program and looks good now. Its a fucking joke desu. It seems like a conspiracy pushed by people who dont want other people to become fit. They recommend them a shit program and they quit.

>>42327275
Posted pics of me shirtless in another thread and was told to eat a slight cut.
Won't eating at maintenance do nothing?

>>42327283
They're too big for my liking anyway.

>>42327194
The second one

1. You can still increase weight
2. It targets more muscles a flat bench doesnt

>Not doing both
One week 8 - 12
Next week 5

Why do the same shit when you can do different things. Its all good workout.

>>42327479
>tfw I had bigger legs than that while not even doing barbell squats back then

lmao, always laugh when it gets posted as a "good" physique.

With that said, SS with accessories is far better than the raw one

Lanklet here

>Did SL for 3 months
>Got strong
>Looked like absolute shit
>Quit

>Did Full body, higher reps for 3 months
>Got strong
>Have a V-taper, abs, muscles where I didn't know muscles existed, legs look good too
>Feel better than I ever have my whole life

Do a strength program if you are a fat autist that considers Mark Rippetoe or Louis Simmons the peak of male aestheticism. Do a normal, full body 8-10 rep routine if you want to get strong but also look great with your shirt off and actually get laid once in a while

>>42327495
So what do you suggest a beginner does? What program/routine?

>>42327504
SS with accessories in a bit higher rep range is probably one of the more well-rounded ones

not the actual program

>>42324280
kk you will get big doing 30 light variations of curls and other accessories.

>>42327194
lifting heavy shit so first one.
with the second one you will have garbage progress, but will enjoy a pump for a few hours :).

>>42327511
Do you mean higher rep ranges for the compount lifts too? I.E bench 3x8-12?

>>42327458

>there are muscles used doing umpteen different accessory movements that aren't used in bench press

Just lol

Is Greyskull Phraks with accessories a good routine?

>>42327225
what push pull split?

>>42327614

Don't add accessories until you know what you're doing.

As a novice you add a laundry list of accessories and then don't try as hard on your working sets because you have to get to your accessories too. Once you're actually more progressed and are approaching having the progress of an intermediate lifter then adding accessories to address weak points, prevent injury, and to build a more balanced physique becomes necessary.

>>42327547
nah keep the main lifts 3x5 and let your noob gains do the linear progress