What benefit do barbell rows offer that deadlifts and weighted

>>42318369
I'm struggling with the same question. What is the benefit over chins, pull-ups or deadlifts?

>>42318369
absolutly nothing

pretty much no benefits apart from minor differences in muscle usage.

its more of a preference thingy

>>42318406
Is this true? Do you have anything to support this claim?

I've been told that barbell rows are good for preparing yourself for bench press. I've heard that it's good to pull ok the same plane that you push. Is there truth to this statement or is this just a meme?

>>42318434
I'm on StrongLifts, good you substitute rows in this programming with chins?

Pullups for width deadlifts and rows for thickness

>>42318434
What specific muscles are targeted more in a row than a pull up?

>>42318369
I feel that rows work my rhomboids and traps better than pull ups

>>42318463
Please no meme answers

>>42318400
>>42318369
>>42318406
rows = scapula retraction

>>42318491
So if I do deadlifts, pull ups and face pulls, then rows are not necessary?

>>42318510
yes from a shoulder health perspective you'll be fine but you won't get as much growth and strength as if you used some kind of rowing - dumbbell, cable or barbell

>>42318369
Most of the programs done by guys that know about lifting includes a row type movement a lat pulldown/pull-chin up exercise (at least in Eric Helms routines, and Lyle Mcdonald) and a deadlift variation.

Why not include the 3 exercises?

>>42318526
REEEEE I guess it is worth it to do rows then

>>42318578
I would rather focus on my pull ups. I only have so much time to spend in the gym, so when I do rows, I do not do pull ups.

>>42318400
>why should I do a horizontal pull when I can do a vertical pull?
>why should I do a horizontal push when I can do a vertical push?

>>42318468
Depending on the row: rear delts, spinal erectors, lower traps, rhomboids.

Somehow fucked up my wrist doing rows

Deadlifts and pullups have you covered. Don't bother with rows.

>>42318369
greater activation of the upper back/rear delts

>>42318630
Widen your grip

>>42318630
chose your grip carefully and "pull with your elbows". If it gets heavy, don't curl your wrists trying to get the bar closer to you.

Yep, there is no difference between a horizontal pull and a verticle pull.

>>42318630
Make sure your forearms and wrists are straight. When the weights too heavy lifters tend to curl th wrists. Just look at the diagram in the OP, straight wrist and forearm

Deadlifts have very little lat activation. Your back is gonna look like shit if you only do deadlifts.

Just so we're clear, there's 6 major movement patterns:
>horizontal push (bench)
>vertical push (ohp)
>horizontal pull (row)
>vertical pull (pullup, chinup, or lat pulldown)
>knee-dominant (squat, leg press)
>hip-dominant (deadlift)

Deadlifts are NOT a vertical pull. H/V Push/Pull refers to working your shoulders, not your hips. Yes, there is carryover to back muscles because of how much they have to stabilize the weight through the deadlift, but it's not a vertical pull.

You're all autists. Just try out the fucking exercise and feel it out for yourself.

>>42318752
It will look imbalanced yes, in a way that it will give you thicc spinal erectors, big fuck off traps as well, most people (95%) dont do deadlifts so they have SHIT traps and SHIT erectors.

When I saw my lats lagging behind I added weighted pullups and T bar rows..

>>42318369
Do people on do one exercise per muscle group? Why not do all?

>>42318406
Say it again!

>>42318369
Enough small differences that rows can support your deads (also squats and bench) if you're stalling.
It's an assistance exercise.

>>42318369
barbell rows are not essential

if you're squatting and deadlifting you don't really need the extra lower back work. just find a row variation you like and stick with it

machine rows, cable rows, dumbbell rows, t bar rows it doesn't really matter

>>42319740
absolutly nothing

Deadlifts and weighted chins are all I do, and my back has a pretty good shape even though I my body fat is a bit too high.

Neutral grip chins, in my experience, give you the best lat activation. Deadlifts cover the rest of the back

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Fuckin' hate barbell rows. They make my lower back sore, which is weird because I have no problem bracing for deads and have perfect form. What am I doing wrong, bros? I can do heavy dumbbell rows just fine.

It's my favorite lift when I'm doing back

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>tfw doing heavy barbell rows only and fully ditching deadlifts

Strict form Pendlay/barbell rows suck ass.
Ed Coan rows and Seal rows are fun.

>>42321599
>not doing the weird ass rows from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGsbwVeTtfk
>not trusting a guy that can deadlift 915 at 6'2" 200

>>42321641
That vid has some wisdom in it
>Point is there's not one way, try stuff and see what works for you

>>42318369
>not doing all 3
>never gonna make it

Barbell rows are a good combination to things like lat pulldown and seated cable row to get that juicy looking back.

>>42322032
I do them as my first exercise for every pull day with 4x6-8.

>>42318369
Well for one, rows train completely different muscles than deadlifts and pull ups you moron. Pull ups train your lats, so the width of your back, rows train the thickness of your back.
You need to do both or you'll end up having a wide but thin and weak back.

>>42318369
I only did weighted pull ups and DLs and developed middle back problems

6 months physical therapy

Added in pendlay rows and I'm good

Just one data point fwiw

>>42318685
Suckon my dicp

>>42318369
Well, row is a horizontal pull, pull up is a vertical pull. Different muscles are involved.
Just do rows on the days you bench, pullups on the days you do OHP.

>>42322072
Same. I didn't do rows because I disliked them, so my back became wide but weak apart from the lats, so I started having back pains all the time.
Do your fucking rows people.

>>42318369
If you want a good bench then you have to row. Pullups and chins and deads and rows should all be in your program

>>42318406
post pic of your back faggot

>>42318825
Based answer
I would also add that without rows your rear delts and middle/lower traps will lag

>>42318825
I'm going to vertically pull your nerd son's underpants up his poorly-wiped buttcrack.

>>42318369
wait is this pic accurate, I've been doing rows to my chest this entire time

I do t-bar rows instead without the v handle thing. Hits the lats better for me personally.

>>42323086
no wonder then bruh. bout ya dong.

>>42323086
There's different ways to do it. The pic is for using your lats more, chest is for focusing on your upper back.

>>42318825
This is actually true. Horizontal push/pull vertical push/pull hip hinge and I forget what squat is I think it's plantar flexion or something but if you don't have these in your program in unison with one another your missing out on gains.

>>42318369
If you bench you should be doing rows, common rule is you should be able to row as much as you can bench this is good for your joint health and muscular balance

>>42318369
theyre easier

>>42324626
>bench 305
>can row maybe 205
just

>>42320751
>barbell rows are for lower back
Dyel

>>42325516
Reading comprehension. That wasnt what he was saying. He was saying that the only real benefit from barbell rows vs other types of rows is the slight lower back work which is completely negligible and unnecessary. He was saying that any other row variation would be just as effective.

cant bent over row to save my life, but can pendlay row all day

>>42324626
wowo thanks brian alsruhe, not everyone is a freak of strength

>>42318369

Listen bro if you want to be a latlet drop rows. Deadlift and pull ups wont make you grow side wings like rows will.

>>42325584
I can row about what I can bench. Not that difficult if you pull as much as you push

rows are great
chinups and pullups make my right shoulder click for some reason and while i can do them im kinda worried that i shouldnt do them

>>42324626
tfw row significantly more than I bench
tfw bench max is just short of 3pl8

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I prefer t-bar rows

I don't have easy access to a pullup bar where I live right now. Can I get by with just rows and DL?

>>42326053
nigga anything can be a pullup bar--basement rafters, thick tree branch

>>42326004
don't feel like I get a decent ROM with those

>>42325584
Nor did we all have access to the same experminetal military superroids that he had.

What's the main difference between an overhand and an underhand grip? Is the underhand grip more for the lower lats?

I row inbetween bench press sets. If I don't my bench decreases.

Was stuck at 425 deadlift for a long time and decided to try adding pendlay rows. Once I could rep 2pl8, I got up to 485 fairly quickly. Don't knock something till you try it for awile.

>>42326519
most if not all good deadlifters do rowing as assistance work for deadlifts

>>42326459
i just alternate the grip each row-day to avoid having to read up on which grip is better

>>42321641
>deadlift 915 at 6'2" 200
Unrelated to rows, but why isn't he the center of focus of every thread or fitness blog if he really deadlifts 91% the WR at like 60% bw?
Isn't that the best deadlift Wilks by a huge margin? Am I missing something? Fake plates?

>>42328855
maybe it's because he's sumo-ing it?
https://www.instagram.com/doctor.deadlift/

not sure, he's outstanding anyways, think he has a WR in his class anyway

>>42326468
Your penis is so tiny and cute bro! Aww!!!!!

>>42321537
are you resting the weight in the floor?

>>42328867
>because he's sumo-ing
I don't sumo either, but come on now.

>>42328903
wut

>>42328934
I'm resting the scrot on your face, faggot. That answer your question?

>>42328945
m8 i'm just trying to find a reason why he might not be posted more often. Only heard of him through the supertraining vid as well

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>>42318406
>>42318434
ITT: clueless, weak morons who can't row for shit so they act like the EXERCISE is the problem and not the fact that THEY are just little dainty bitch boys.

>>42329159
bro, how much do you row

>>42329184
your mum + your dad so about 2 tons

Rows work traps in a way that is different from deadlifts and work lats in a way that is different than pullups. Rows also work rhomboids better than either of those exercises. Rows are also better for rear delt development than pullups, and I'm sure we could all use more rear delt work.

Quit being a bitch and do your rows. Doesn't have to be bent over barbell rows. Could be pendlay rows, seated cable rows, single-arm dumbbell rows, t-bar rows, a mix of all of these, whatever you feel most comfortable with. But you should have some kind of horizontal pulling exercise in your routine to balance out your horizontal pushing exercises (bench press).

>>42329198
LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ALSO HIS DAD IS MtF AND HIS MUM IS FtM

>>42329232
xxxxddddddddd

I do them on the same night. Deads first. Then rows, pullups, etc. It's hard after deadlift. Mostly fucks my arms

I'm doing a push/pull split at the moment.

>>42329184
3+ plates for reps. stay mad ya weak moron.

>>42331098
i bet it's micro plates to match your micro dick

>>42318602
So what muscles do horizontal rows work that vertical ones don't?

>>42331139
nope. stop projecting, dainty little bitch.

>>42331160
The horizontal ones, idiot.

>>42331186
if insulting is projecting, then you just admitted to being dainty, little, and a bitch.

>>42331205
>too stupid to refute anything
>moves the goal posts
>still fails miserably

so much insecurity and retardation from this angry, weak pussy. lol.

>>42331192
I know nothing: the post

>>42331232
based on where the goalposts have been set, you're now claiming to be angry, weak, and a pussy.

I added rows to my routine because I've neglected them and I do them between my bench backoff sets. 5 sets bench 5 sets rows alternating.
I haven't done it long enough to be 100% sure, but the times I've done it my bench reps feel much lighter, more controlled and more explosive from the bottom. I feel much safer.

>>42331368
Tell me about the power you get from exploding at the bottom anon

>>42331394
See me in the lockers tomorrow and I'll show you m8

>>42331281
>please respond to me, sir

imagine being THIS desperate for a response from your superior.

>>42318825
This man said it how it is.

That's why I do a 6-day PPL each with the first and main exercise as one of this list.

>>42324626
truth

>>42318825
thank you for the concise explanation anon

To add a little to that, if you look at almost all well respected lifting routines (beginner or intermediate) you will see they cover all six of these movements

I had a problem keeping my back in thoracic extension during the squat and deadlift.

This caused me to slouch over when squatting. Because my chest was lower, in order to keep the bar over mid-foot my hips had to be higher and I would miss depth.

This problem also made locking out my hips at the top of the deadlift difficult.

I added pendley rows to my routine recently and these problems have gone away for the most part.

>>42331160
if you even have to ask that it means that you should lurk moar and go read some shit

>>42318510
your horizontal pulling and all the muscles connected to it will still be much less than if you also rowed because those muscles will be touched as secondary/auxiliary in all those movements

>>42318825
yeah no shit, they are a floor pull
>hip-dominant
wat

>>42332671
i was thiking deadlift is more of a push exercise, since you kinda push your legs into ground thus lifting weight up, that is what get the weight higher.

>>42332842
it's useful to think of it as pushing the floor away, as a cue, but no, it's definitely a pull, all the muscles involved are pulling muscles and you're pulling the weight off the floor

>>42329225
when doing one arm db rows I feel them much more in the lats.
I keep my back at a pretty horizontal angle, that might be it.
but I need to put in another exercise on pull to work my traps properly, they dont for me
or I could just do croc rows

I use to be a big advocate of BB Rows but have switched to heavy DB Rows as of late, they provide a better stretch on the lower lats, the same if not better scapula retraction due to increased ROM and depending on how you do them less stress on the lower back

IMO DB rows combined with weighted chin ups and deadlifts is enough to build a very solid back both in terms of strength and aesthetics (width and mass)

>>42333355
What weight did you switch over to db rows on? I'm at 160lbs now for 3 x 5. Should I be waiting until I hit 225 lbs before I switch over?

>>42318369
>what benefit does an upper back exercise offer that a lower back exercise does not

>>42333355
they dont train the traps as much though

>>42318449
Quit being a pussy and just do your rows.

>>42333402
i should have mentioned i do BB shrugs at the end of my workout heavy and high reps just to empty the tank until im about to vomit

>>42333388
i was doing 100kg BB rows and noticed an increasing strain on my lower back and then i switched to DB rows havent looked back

Also i like to treat them as a core compound (just my preference in regards to my goals) and do a wide range of sets, reps and styles including Kroc Rows, high weight low rep, low weight high reps, squeeze at top, cheat rows etc