>Stop focusing on deadlifts >Start concentrating more

>>42222304
>deadlift is a back exercise
When will this meme end? I'm not even sure where this meme came from, as it's always been explicitly an exercise for improving your hip hinging pattern

>>42222304
>start performing back exercises
>back grows

Damn, skeeter, you really into somethin' thar. Who'd a thunk it?

>>42222327
That back acts isometrically in the deadlift so it does have an effect on back growth but yes you are correct

>>42222347
Sure, but that's like expecting your bicep to grow from a press as it is also contract isometrically in the bottom position, it's silly.

And I do see many, many bodybuilders in particular, but even powerlifters (especially American) that seem to think it is somehow a back exercise.

>>42222304

Post pic of your dyel back

>>42222304
>do deadlifts twice a week
>my back got wide and fast

File: Untitled.png (388KB, 870x816px) Image search: [Google]

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>Deadlifts are a good back exer...

>>42222369
Mm no it's a little different. The back musculature has to contract to stay in the correct position through the pull. Not the same at all for the bottom of a press

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>>42222304
>dont train like a bodybuilder
>muscle not growing
>start training like a bodybuilder
>muscle starts to grow
>HOLY FUCK GUYS!?! XD I'm so profound I just had a revelation. Heavy dead-lifting isn't an exercise for building mass.

kys you fucking simpleton

>>42222500
>No pics
uh huh...

>Isometric contraction will increase back size

CLUELESS

How are you guys doing on your first week of SS?

>>42222369
The deadlift is a back exercise, and if you look closely you'll see that it's not isometric. The lats, lower back, etc contract (shorten) as you lift the bar

If you stop working out for a couple weeks and then do a high volume deadlift workout, i guarantee you the following day you'll feel it way more in your lower back than in your glutes and hamstrings.

>>42222523
aren't deadlifts mainly supposed to be a pushing exercise with your legs rather than a pulling exerise?

>>42222523

What do you expect after one (1) year of training?
Besides, literally nobody has ever suggested only doing deadlifts for back. That is plain retarded.

>>42222614
>If you stop working out for a couple weeks and then do a high volume deadlift workout, i guarantee you the following day you'll feel it way more in your lower back than in your glutes and hamstrings.
I have done this and I did not as I have a very efficient hip hinging pattern.

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>>42222523

>Only doing compound exercises
>Not having a day dedicated to accessory lifts
>Doing this for an entire year

>>42222532
>mmmm no
Christ
>>42222614
Anyway, yes, they contract, but not in the direction of the pull. The muscles that contract to pull the weight up are the hamstrings and glutes (hip hinge) and the quads (knee extension)
> i guarantee you the following day you'll feel it way more in your lower back than in your glutes and hamstrings
Yes, obviously, but because the hams and glutes are way bigger muscle groups. Not because the erectors magically pulled the weight

Deadlifts give fat juicy spinal erectors. Most underrated muscle for aesthetics IMO.

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>>42222538
B-but all the cool powerlifters on youtube said powerlifting training will get me huge and bodybuilder training is stupid and doesn't work

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>>42222755
meanwhile pic related doesn't deadlift but rather clean pull

>>42222797
I can almost guarantee you that he has some form of deadlift as part of his programming, especially the chinese REALLY emphasize strength work.

>>42222808
he does (snatch grip deficit DLs) i was talking out of my ass

see you next time fucker...

>>42222797

How do you know this?

>how can Jeff be aesthetic if he only posts pictures of his body on instagram? Is posting instagram photos good for mass?

>stop focusing on squats
>focus on bench dips etc
>chest actually grows
Really makes you think

>>42222523
What a retard. Literally zero point to this test. Nobody has ever claimed that you should only do deadlifts. But you WILL build more muscle mass if your routine has deadlifts in it, than without them.

>>42222826
diddlies are only an accessory exercise for weightlifters (roughly speaking), too taxing on CNS otherwise. Clarence can DL 340 kg but he said around that time he only deadlifted once a month or so and rather focused on clean pull triples for strength

>>42222782
For a natty, powerlifting will get you faster muscle mass gains than bodybuilding routines.

>>42222858
you need to specify it better. Yes, you will gain more total muscle mass, but it will be mostly posterior chain. You won't get big "showoff" muscles from diddlies alone

>>42222860
Chinamen do tons of accessory work, WAY more than western (english-speaking) lifters. They also do a good morning variation several times a week.

guys what if i only jefferson and suitcase deadlifts?

>>42222875
>You won't get big "showoff" muscles from diddlies alone

Again, something nobody claims to be the case.
Its like anti-deadlifters make up things that people who enjoy deadlifting think, to justify themselves not deadlifting.

>>42222875
And? Nobody said you would. You have to train your upper body if you want upper body muscles.
But if you don't want your lower body to also get huge then you're a colossal faggot and will end up looking ridiculous with a huge upper body and weak legs.

>>42222890
>>42222897
Faggots who shill powerlifting and "BIG THREE LIFTS" actually said this.
Then we have people like you who will pop in and say that no one said this and they're stupid for not doing "accessory lifts".

I think powerlifting as the first kind of weight training a new lifter or person who's horribly out of shape and wants to get fit is fucking stupid busllhit.
General weightlifting should be pushed above all else.

>>42222860
This. Oly "deadlifts" =/= deadlifts

Heavy, grinding deadlifts are completely uncommon and I have yet to see a high level Oly lifter perform them regularly. The "deadlifts" they do are more like glute-ham raises with a snatch grip for accessory work. If you look at the actual deadlift videos of Oly lifters, they're usually like over 100kg of what their actual lifts are. Theres no reason for them to stress their CNS so much for very little crossover.

>>42222918
Yeah, because teaching someone not flexible enough to even approach a front rack or perform a flat back hip hinge the classics is so much easier than teaching them the power lifts, sure.

>>42222918
No. Literally nobody ever has claimed such a thing. Every elite powerlifter has designed their routines to have lots of accessory work for upper body. Look at every variation of 5/3/1 for example.
Powerlifting absolutely is far more effective for overall muscle mass building than bodybuilding routines.
You're just retarded.

>>42222304
Deadlifts aren't a back exercise you mongoloid.

If anything the only part of the back deadlifts improve is the lowest part. It's obvious upper train exercises would affect more your back than deadlifts.

If you wanted to improve that you would have done more with daily bodyweight pullups than with months of deadlifts.

>>42222941

Lol, stop bullying him, he doesn't know what hes talking about, but by "general weightlifting" I think he meant normie lifting.

>>42222938
the exercise is called clean pull. Mimicks the pull of the clean, as can be derived from the name. Is done with at most 110% of the actual clean, to make the main movement better

>>42222941
I'm sorry. Are you fucking retarded?
General weight lifting as in how to lift weights, not just a program designed around and designed specificlaly to get you to squat dead bench and ohp and get stronger till you hit the wall and stops there.

It's a woefully incomplete and on a certain level dangerous program to start people on.

That it actually concerns itself with getting people flexible enough to do it and build up to lifing heavier weigth has nothing to do with anything. Many programs are like that.

It's the lessons that it teaches and the mindset that it creates that is the problem.

>>42222966
No, buddy, I'm sorry. But you're a stupid faggot and litterally everyone used to say this shit when SS and babby's first powerlifiting programs were shilled litterally everywhere.
Want to know what ALL elite lifters did too? They lifted with relatively high reps, did calisthenics, and rarely lifted 5x5 with only DA BIG LIFTS like you retards fucktard on about here.
Want to know who did?
Rhetorical question.
Fucking no one important.

dDeadlifts primarily work lower body

This is a concept that gets confusing because it is indeed a full-body engaging movement, and people feel it in their backs.

Your upperbody is anything that connects to your shoulders. Your lowerbody is anything that connects to your hips. Your abs and lower back are connected to your hips, hence why you can do leg raises for abs.

Thus, the dividing line between the upper and lower bodies isn't the waist, it's the solar plexus.

Deadlift has a slight knee extension followed by a massive hip hinge. It works your lower back, glutes, and hamstrings the most. Everything else involved (forearms, lower traps, lats) is for stability only.

In short, yes, OP, more back exercises grow your back more than hip exercises.

>>42223135
>Want to know what ALL elite lifters did too? They lifted with relatively high reps, did calisthenics, and rarely lifted 5x5 with only DA BIG LIFTS like you retards fucktard on about here.
But that's fucking wrong lmao. Literally all the strongest men in the world started out with a linear progression powerlifting routine, not some moronic bodybuilding brosplit.
Powerlifting is far superior to muscle mass building than bodybuilding routines, to natties and steroid users.

>>42223230
You come on the internet just be wrong and post dumb shit?

>>42223230
>Literally all the strongest men in the world started out with a linear progression powerlifting routine, not some moronic bodybuilding brosplit.


This isn't an either or thing you stupid bastard.
They did not do some ridiculous 5x5 with DA BIG LIFTS and called it a day.
They did relatively high reps to build work capacity and strength practice on top of that.

And you know what else? It's basically fucking impossible to find a single goddamned man who you would consider the strongest ever who didn't have a background of bodybuilding or general weightlifting.

>>42223230
>powerlifting is superior for building muscle for enhanced lifters
oh boy

>>42222523
>1.5h
>nobody pointed out the pictures are the same pictures, even the bands and other shit are scattered in the same way
Post the original, faggot

>>42223386
Looked it up, he gave no before picture, so there's no way to see how mich the deadlifts did after 1 year.

>>42223230
>literally all the strongest men in the world started out with LP powerlifting routines

you couldn't be more wrong if you actually tried to be wrong, I can't even think of any good lifters who started with SS

>>42222523
350 lbs isn't much. it doesn't become a good back exercise until you get to at least 4 plate. and it's not a general back exercises. it uses traps pretty well, lats ok and not much else.

>>42223455
>traps
>lats
How many other back muscles you got?

>>42223258
Do you even know what weightlifting means? You stupid fucktard. I bet you look like complete shit doing your chest/biceps, shoulders/back split. Enjoy half a decade of no gains, faggot!

>>42223386

I had to fill the white space with something

so if not SS for beginners, then what? some of the other beginner programs seem pretty similar

>>42223541
rhomboids

>>42223897
PPLPPLx with 5-8 exercises per day, 4-6 sets for 8-12 reps for pretty much everything.

Push: OHP, Bench, Low-high Cable Flys, Skullcrushers, Tri Pulldowns, Lateral Raises

Pull: Pullups, Rows, Zottman Curls, Hammer Curls, Reverse Flys, Face Pulls, Shrugs

Legs: deadlift/squat (alternate each day), lunge/rdl (alternate each day), calf raises, optionally either more 2 more leg exercises or ab work or stretching to alleviate the tight hamstrings you probably have.

You work out an hour a day for 6 days a week. You only increase the weight when you can lift 6x12 of a weight, then you drop back to 4x8. Never lift what you can't control. Never lockout, work on good form and time-under-tension and mind-muscle connection.

>>42223768
Oh, you're fucking retarded. I see.
You litterally don't fucking know the difference between a workout for maximal strength as fast as possible and a workout for strength endurance and building larger muscle bellies do you.

Go back to reading fucking powerlifting programs and jacking/jilling off to your copy of SS. I'm sure you'll get them huge guns from squatting eventually.

>>42224597
thanks for typing all that out man
im weak and can move very little weight at those rep ranges, progression would be very slow i think, does that not diminish the usefulness of such high volume?

My erectors are huge. I dl about 500 pounds. My upper back is complete poverty garbage. You need to do more than dead lift to get a good back. I've never done a row in my life because of my shoulders.

>>42222347
>you are correct about deadlift not improving back
>deadlift does hit your back
I'm actually very confused. My back grew but I did bent over rows and chinups along with deadlift.
>>42222327

>>42222715
I did stronglifts 5x5 for a year and a half. Now after 2.5 years I look like I lifted for 1.5 years. At least I don't look like DYEL just slow

>>42223258
You are so fucking clueless lmao

>>42222635
No.

>>42223230

Bill Kaz did bodybuilding type routines

>>42224940
Deadlift works the lower back the most, chins and rows works the upper back which is probably what you noticed started growing.

Deadlifts is a meme fucking lift, and everyone fucking knows that. Deadlifts are to /fit/ what morrowind is to /v/. There are a million better alternatives, safer and won't give you a hernia and a slipped disc.

I noticed my deadlifts broke through a plateau once I started incorporating chin ups and pull-ups. Coincidence or a thing?

>>42224911
Not at all. I started after spending 3 years in catatonic depression. LP programs like SS and SL are more likely to lead to injuries in weak people because of the powerlifting type training aspect. Just don't lock out and keep the weight manageable. This is the opposite of LP.

I'm not saying to never do an LP, I just don't think it's for beginners. It's good for more advanced lifters (6-12 months experience) who already have a hypertrophic base.

>>42225040
You know what, I think you might be right. I survived an LP program, went from untrained and either 1 or 0 plate on all lifts to 1234 plates for 5rm in 6 months. But I had a coach, spent at least a hour every week on prehab and stretching and ate a huge fucking surplus of calories. It was a lot of work, probably unnecessary work.

But if you've been sitting on your ass for 3 years a conditioning base would probably help a lot too.

I wonder when the interent will realise that to make your muscles grow you need to add VOLUME.

Do more fucking reps. Do more sets. Do 200 pullups a day. Fucking get sore and then do it again.

>b-but my food
Yes, if you roid and eat 4000 calories a day you will see crazy gains. If you don't roid you will just become a lardass. You don't need to eat this much to make gains. Just eat high protein foods and fucking ADD VOLUME. This 3x5 shit doesn't cut it.

>>42225040
you start every exercise with 4x8 and work up to 6x12, then add more weight? even deadlifts?

>>42225040
>some sub 5pl8 deadlifter thinks his opinion is worth shit
Just leave this website you're wasting precious megabytes typing your stupid shit

>>42225162
>200 pullups
Confirmed calisthenics twink

>>42225170
First you need to find your weights. Start light and see if you can do ten reps with it. If it felt too easy, go up until you find that sweet spot weight. This can be accomplished by warming up, or having your first day at the gym just be finding your right weights for the lifts.

Then you lift 4x8 that day. You don't have to actually stop at 8 reps. If you can do more, do it. You shouldn't go to failure, you should go to the rep right before the rep you would fail on. So your goal was 4x8, but maybe your reps were actually 12, 11, 7, 6.

Next workout you should get at least what you got, but hey sometimes shit happens and you hit a plateau or didn't eat/sleep right. Never push out a rep you can't do. So you now want to either get more reps in 4 sets, or get more reps out of more sets (add a set). You also want to lengthen time-under-tension, shorten rest periods, and increase mind-muscle connection (flexing through the movement). So let's say now you lifted 11 reps, 10 reps, 8 reps, 6 reps, 6 reps. That's more work than last time, so you made progress.

Each workout, try to do more reps and/or more sets. Once you work that weight up to 6 sets of 12 (or whatever, sometimes you have to go even further beyond, sometimes you don't), move up the weight. So long as you can stay in that 8-12 rep range.

Linear Progression can cause a lot of problems for new lifters. The good thing about LP is the instructions are simple. But this is greatly outweighed by
>greater chance of injury and "snappage"
>not enough volume to give you enough opportunity to teach your muscles good form
>not enough frequency to help you lose blubber

On deadlifts and squats, it's more like 3-4x5-8. Those are the two exercises I would probably put in that range. You can also go to a higher rep range with stuff like calf raises and shrugs.

>>42225162
>VOLUME
you mean more weights?
>>42225162
>eat 4000 calories a day
that really depends on his TDEE

my TDEE is 3000 cals so 1000 cals more will be 2 lbs per weekend

>>42225278
>depends on a beginner to find that sweet spot.
>3x5 are dangerous when you literally increase by less than a Turks worth but doing 12 reps is safe and form definitely doesn't break doing high reps.
>volume helps you lose fat not diet.

You are a moron with zero experience or common sense.

>>42225313
Gonna switch to Eric Boogerhugger training
>Monday: bench 1x1
>Tuesday: deadlift 1x1
>Wednesday hack squat 1x1
>Thursday jefferson deadlift 1x1
>Friday: zercher squat 1x1
Gallon of milk each day. This will get me big, right guys?

>>42225399
Silly bait

>Pulled 539 beltless from a 2" deficit
>obsessed with DL
>From up front I look stocky
>From behind I look like a beast
This meme is so boring and stale, you dicklets are really provocative in stupid and unoriginal ways, why not come up with something fresh at least?

>>42225278
thank you!

>ITT: the dyel kids from /fit/ continue to argue over the stupid PL vs BB routine debacle when all the great powerlifters and bodybuilders incorporate both heavy lifting at lower volume as well as high volume accessories

It really shows that none of you fucktards in this thread have lifted for more than 6 months. There is no reason for a powerlifting routine to not include high volume accessory work, just as it's retarded for a bodybuilding routine to not incorporate heavy lifts

>>42225711
I thought the argument was that high volume work/accessories would interfere with recovery/progression for heavy compounds, which should be prioritized?

>>42225745
They don't. It's weightlifting logic 101. Heavy sets first, accesories after. For fucks sake any serious powerlifter will tell you that they do huge amounts of accesory work with tons of volume

>>42225186
I do 100 pull-ups a day at 190 lbs 5' 11" in 20 minutes. Doing this twice in a day wouldn't be a problem. It's still retarded, and it's way better to just add weight.

>>42222635
Don't think of it as "pushing" or "pulling". You are primarily extending your hips with your glutes and hamstrings while isometrically holding your spine position and doing a tiny bit of knee extension. It's a hip extension movement. "push vs pull" doesn't really mean anything in the context of deadlifting. Deadlifts aren't just squats where you hold the bar with your hands.

>>42225711
>heavy lifting at lower volume
Only americans do this

>>42222523
>little bit over 3 plates diddly
>implying he ever had any lat engagement during his pulls

i can tell you he was literally catbacking this shit all the time

if your lats arent lit up after heavy deadlifting then you are doing it fucking wrong

>>42226105
any cues for engaging lats?

>>42225040
>People are going to see this and think that it's actually good advice.

Hey guys, I'm currently on a major cut on account of being fat. I'm doing stronglifts at the moment with two or three extra accessory lifts. Would it be worth adding more volume? I was under the impression that at a deficit it wouldn't do much good as I wouldn't be able to recover. I'm making strength gains on 5x5 on a deficit though so thought it would be best to focus on getting those lifts up and then switching to a high volume split once I hit goal weight and can eat a bit more.

>>42222304
>expected to be 240lbs at 8% from 1 year of lifting

>>42222715
They didn't read any books

>>42223897
ready the book

power clean/row for upper

chins for arms

programming is
in the book