Vegan boy got absolutely obliterated https://www.youtube.co

>>42104505
Can't watch it right now but VG has BTFO of everyone he's debated so far, what did this guy say that suddenly tripped him up?

>>42104505
I love how the comments on VGs channel are saying that VG rekt Athene.
While I don't follow Athene anymore eversince he started making these philosophical videos, I must say he won this one.

>>42104505
>athene
lmao

>>42104532
Athene lured him into a trap where VG had to admit that eating his donuts out of comfort is okay (like for some people eating meat out of comfort is okay). But the whole debate ended up on VG defending his comfort (like a meat eater would do).
Also VG had massive problems answering questions ("would you rather eat donuts or save a life with that money"?) and he even lies about things he said.
At the end VG got roid rage and his gf had to walk in and tell him not to scare the dog

This wasnt so much

>>42104505
I dunno who the fuck VG is but I would just like to state that I think it's fine if others want to eat meat. I'm just not going to and I know the factual benefits.

If you wanna eat whatever you want, go for it, it's your right and you should be proud.

>>42104602
Why does it matter that he eats doughnuts out of comfort?

Is there something wrong with enjoying life rather than watching everywhere you step to make sure you do not hurt someone?

>>42104686
that's the whole point
Why does it matter

>>42104686
Dont really think its a valid comparison but I think the argument is that he could spend the money on other people to save lifes instead of indulgence.

>>42104602
But he did save a life by eating vegan donuts

>>42104686
>Why does it matter that he eats doughnuts out of comfort?

Because it is the same argumant meat eaters use to justify their habit. "uuuh why it matters if I eat meat out of comfort??"

>Is there something wrong with enjoying life rather than watching everywhere you step to make sure you do not hurt someone?

Thats the whole Athene Cult shit, he doesnt say its wrong to enjoy life this way (like the hypocrite VG) , but he has as strong argument why its right to live in this "Value Logic as your core value" - lifestyle

>>42104697
He was saying something about a moral baseline being how to decide that, right? And direct violations are wrong. Existence causes death but going out of your way to cause more harm is wrong. Was there any opposition to that?

>>42104705
Then you'd have to dedicate your life to others to not be a "hypocrite" and that's futile

>>42104602
Vegan donuts don't cause the suffering and/or death of animals, what's so hard to understand about this. The whole veganism argument comes down to whether or not you care about the animals suffering or not.

For me, exploiting and causing the suffering or death of any sentient being when it is completely unnecessary to do so is a moral wrongdoing. Human or otherwise. It's as simple as that.

>>42104628
The reason most vegans feel compelled to actively argue against meat eaters is that the animals can't argue for themselves, so someone must give them a voice.

>>42104705
That's a retarded argument and has nothing to do with veganism. "You can't singlehandedly save the world so there's no point in doing anything". Also veganism is a passive action (not actively contributing to animal agriculture), rather than a active action (going out of your way to donate time/money), so it's not even analogous

>>42104788
How is he a hypocrite? Why is it cult like to value logic?

>go vegan
>get shredded while stuffing myself full of nutritious food

You omnivores don't know what you're missing. Cutting/all year shred is easy as fug.

>>42104784
>But he did save a life by eating vegan donuts

Yes he did, but while he was eating a donut he just didnt save a life because he didnt donate the money to charity, and athene was using this as an argument why he is a hyprocrite.

Its was a really long discussion 2h and you have to follow it chronologically to understand what athenes goal was:
>pointing out he is a hypocrite and making people realize that they base their decisions based on emotions and physical needs if laws dont get in the way.

>>42104830
vg is a proponent of veganism though so he's active in it

I'm at work, can someone give me the tldr?

>>42104872
if you follow athene's logic then it's ok to manipulate people though and use them as tools. that isnt nice ;-----(

Wow Athene still exists? Its been like a decade

>>42104830
>animals
>sentient
I hate to break to to you, but Disney and Pixar movies are not real life

>>42104830
>vegans feel compelled to actively argue against meat eaters
>Gideons feel compelled to actively give out bibles

Veganism is a religion.

>>42104505
I watched the debate, Athene is retarded and wouldnt answer basic questions.

Athene is a YouTube debater now? Is he still the best paladin in the world?

>Vegan donuts don't cause the suffering and/or death.

The argument in the debate was:
He could have eaten lentils and save the money on an animal shelter. But his desicion was not to, so the consequence was that an animal didnt go into his animal shelter and died in a slaughterhouse instead.

>>42104830
>Vegan donuts don't cause the suffering and/or death of animals

Production of all foods causes suffering and death of animals, i.e. pesticides. Production of plants causes less obviously, but why not only eat plants which cause the least?

>do you consider yourself a healthy person?
>yes
>so why do you eat donuts? check mate

turned it off

>>42104948
How does this justify unnecessary suffering and death? I can't save all the animals in the world from dying therefore it's ok to kill and eat them?

>>42104966
Not him but I don't think that was his argument. Rather we only do morally good stuff that we feel comfortable with. Eating lentils and donating the money saved instead of eating donuts is morally greater. But VG isn't willing to give up that comfort in order to save more animals.

>>42104908
>it's ok to manipulate people though and use them as tools

Im not sure if this is right, because when they get manipulated it causes suffering aswell which is bad for the suffering person and for the person who has to deal with the suffering.

But then it comes down to the argumentation "what is suffering" and how to determine in every situation what the right desicion is. And how that is possible I have no idea

>>42104966
Because you are cherry picking what you consider unnecessary, and pick what you are interesting in changing based solely on convenience. You don't actually care, so the entire point is a red herring.

>>42104830
>Vegan donuts don't cause the suffering and/or death of animals
no but your lack of action, (i.e. not donating money that you spend on expensive vegan doughnuts to animal regfugees and whatnot that save lives and prevent suffering) directly causes animals to suffer, for you to enjoy those doughnuts some innocent puppy THAT YOU COULD HAVE SAVED dies in the streets.

>>42104956
he was setting a trap here, you dumb faggot

maybe you would understand if you would watch it till the end

>>42104875
He personally is, but it's not required of someone taking up veganism. I don't go out of my way to advocate for veganism aside from shitposting on 4chan at work

>>42104872
>they base their decisions on emotions and physical needs if laws don't get in the way
Literally every decision someone makes are based on these.

>>42104948
>>42104954
These amount to an appeals to futility and are logical fallacy. You don't spend 100% of your time and effort saving animals/you don't live 100% free from animal exploration, therefore everything you do is in vain. Which is false. But I do agree we should always strive for the 'better' options, but just because we don't doesn't invalidate veganism or justify meat eating.

>>42104983
The decision to eat that doughnut out of comfort isn't necessitating the death of an animal, though.

>>42104927
A lot of animals are sentient, but only humans are sentient and also sapient.

>>42104956
>fatty detected

>>42105005
You do know that the fresh vegetables you eat during the winter, are grown in mexican slave labor camps right?

>>42104966
It doesnt justify that. And Athene didnt claim that.
Athene didnt debate about veganism at all, he debated on why VG is a hypocrite.

This entire twitch debate was just an advertisement for Athenes cult idea

>>42104966
The point of the argument is you do not have moral high ground because you don't do everything you can to stop suffering regardless of how effective it is but you still lord your superiority over others when you're just as logically inconsistent.

>>42105019
>necessitating the death of an animal, though.
Neither does dairy.

>>42105005
Appeal to futility. It's like saying you didn't go to school to be a doctor, so all the patients lives you could have saved are now dead because of you. It's not an argument.

>>42105032
>You do know that the fresh vegetables you eat during the winter, are grown in mexican slave labor camps right?
Which is why I want all the Mexicans out of the country so we can't use them as slave labor.

>>42105019
>eat 3 packs of doughnuts out of comfort $25
>buy 5 imprisoned rats into your super cool happy animal cage $25

one desicion gives you pleasure and is comfortable
the otherone saves a rat from suffering in a cage
Its all in your hands

>>42104505
not gonna bother watching that but how do you get destroyed by someone who went from making comedy content to creating an actual cult to scam people

>>42105024
Even if that were true, the animals we keep as livestock are not sentient and are as dumb as they come. Have you ever dealt with cows before

>>42105057
Explain how all those patients you could have saved are any less dead because you did not become a doctor.

this is true and a burden you do not care about.

obviously your free time is more important to you than innocent people but meat eaters are the scum of the earth.

Athene guy is fucking retarded and I don't get how VG didn't call him out on it.

How the fuck is VG a hypocrite for eating donuts on his birthday while advocating a healthy lifestyle.
And the second point is even more retarded
>hurr you're a hypocrite for not doing more than you already do

That guy is a literal autist and it's hilarious how the comments call him intellectually superior for creating non-arguments that you literally can't respond to because of how loaded they are. In a philosophy 101 class you'll meet guys like this all the time and they're annoying as fuck.

And VG is an annoying idiot too. But I can understand why he left early.

>>42105019
But the money saved could be donated to save animals, so you'd rather eat out of comfort than save lives.

>>42105055
You are shortening its lifespan, no?

>>42105047
There's no logical inconsistency. That argument can be made for every vegan. It's called an appeal to futility fallacy.

>You aren't doing everything in your power to maximize the mitigation of suffering and death of animals, therefore it's ok to eat meat

This doesn't make any sense

>>42104868
>go vegan
>lose test

No thanks

>>42105005
Hah, fun fact, were suffering an overpopulation of dogs because everybody wants to save them

Also, instead of saving your hypothetical puppy in the street, why not save a human child that's being aborted instead?

>>42104830
>being vegan for the animals
not gonna make it
>>42104868
amen brother, I get 1/1 protein/weight without even trying, everything is delicious as fuck

>>42105098
>go vegan
>still slamming new muff every week

meh, I don't notice a change in sex drive

>>42105098
>get laid
problem solved

>>42104505
this was like watching someone who was part of the debate club in college debate someone who has never won an argument before

complete mismatch of intellectual level

>>42105095
The issue is not that you are vegan, it's that you lord yourself over people when you aren't consistent in your beliefs, which makes you a hypocrite.

>>42105102
Becuase it's comfortable not too, obviously, pretty sure that's the whole point

>>42105095
>shortening its lifespan
>necessitates death
Goalpost where art though

Also that isn't what an appeal to futility is. An appeal to futility would be me saying, why should I stop eating meat, it won't change anything.
Asking you to take your own moral reasoning seriously instead of when it is convenient is not futile.

Just like vegans that misuse appeal to nature all the damn time.

>>42105111
>still slamming new muff every week
>On 4chan arguing about whose diet is morally superior

Pick one

>>42105087
>I don't get how VG didn't call him out on it
>And VG is an annoying idiot too

i think you do get it

what i dont understand is why people watch internet """celebrities""" debate

>>42105118
>Vegan
>Get laid

Top kek there mate.

>>42104505
I'm sorry but the only thing he has won is donuts tho

>>42105123
Again, there's no inconsistency.

An omnivore's comfort in eating meat or animal products necessitates the suffering and/or death of another sentient being.

Choosing to spend more money on another vegan option doesn't necessitate the death of another sentient being. Yes, choosing not to eat that expensive vegan doughnut and donating the difference to saving an animal would be more ethical, but there's no logical inconsistency.

>>42105146
Honestly are you even trying? First off this isn't remotely kek worthy of a thing to say, secondly if you actually believe this you are revealing a power level nobody needs to know of.

>>42105146
>>42105139
who let the virgin in here

>>42105105
The animals are my main reason but I also like the health aspect. I don't tend to use that as an argument though because autists just start flinging medical studies at each other

>>42105123
Vegans believe in reducing ones personal contribution to animal suffering as much as possible. That's it. Not donating to animal shelters doesn't constitute a inconsistency in our beliefs.

>>42105140
/fit/ made me. Plus I'm a hikki neet and it's rest day so what else am I gonna do but watch stupid youtube videos and incoherently shitpost.

>>42105152
>Choosing to spend more money on another vegan option doesn't necessitate the death of another sentient being.

All production of food results in some degree of animal death, either through use of pesticides, clearance of land to grow crops etc.

So if production of donuts resulted in more death than eating lentils would you still eat them over the latter?

>>42105152
>An omnivore's comfort in eating meat or animal products necessitates the suffering and/or death of another sentient being.
which is true of inaction caused by choosing comfort over beliefs.

don't bitch at me for not being comfortable saving animals from abstaining from meat when you're not comfortable saving animals abstaining from everything but lentils or you're a hypocrite.

The comments on Vegan grains video is just leftist retardation
Literal autism

This is why I prefer meat eaters, cause they're chill and not spergy

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>>42105166
>Vegan slampieces

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Who would win: One steroid loaded vegan or one donut?

>>42104505
>athene's shoulder width
holy shit

>>42105207
>controlled opposition to discredit the vegan movement

>>42105180
>reducing ones personal contribution to animal suffering as much as possible
if you were to reduce animal suffering by donating to animal shelters would that not reduce your personal contribution to animal suffering by reducing animal suffering or adding negative animal suffering?

your inaction is causes an animal to suffer just as me eating meat does, but you're more comfortable with it because you don't see those animals that you're not saving.

>>42105133
>Goalpost where art though

It necessitates suffering, especially when you take away its calf after giving birth every time.

>>42105139
I just got back from China yesterday, m8. When I move back to China next month I'll go back to slamming hairy Chinese muff on the reg.

>>42105197
There's a clear difference here and you're grasping at straws.

Choosing an expensive vegan doughnut doesn't cause an increase in demand in animal agriculture. If everyone were vegan then this wouldn't be an issue in the first place.

>>42105278
Not him, but, if everyone went vegan there would still be people chanting about their morally superior diets because they only eat plants with the lowest carbon foot print to produce or plants which need less land to produce.

Both of which would contribute to a reduction in animal suffering.

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>>42105278
>There's a clear difference here
No there is not.
I'm not comfortable sacrificing something that I enjoy in order to make animals lives better.
neither are you. only what we don't want to sacrifice is different.

nice strawman though, just because you eat meat does not mean you contribute to animal agriculture.

jesus christ, those arguments, the level of that ""debate"""

who would willingly watch that

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You can smoke, you can drink alcohol, you can be fat, you can waste your life in front of your xbox while drinking mountain dew, you can have no job, you can cheat on your wife, but when it comes to food for some reason it is your OBLIGATION to live according to these 500 cherry picked studies, you HAVE to be perfect in this one specific area of your life, the rest can be a mess though

>>42104697
It matters because when you eat meat out of comfort you're killing human being for your pleasure

when you eat donut out of comfort you're not, great fucking argument athene, you sure showed him

>>42105312
I'm honestly not sure what you're trying to argue here...

>>42105321
It's pretty important for health and environmental reasons. You can say "cherry picked" all you want but that's just lazy and dismissive.

>>42105312
Different person here but I'll try explaining something to you here:

>Person A enjoys beating babies faces in with a hammer
>Person B enjoys stealing babies candy

Person B now tells A to stop beating babies faces in. A says "But you hurt babies too! There is no difference at all between our actions!" and proceeds to beat babies faces in.

You are person A.

>>42105408
But person A's actions results in a reduction of greenhouse gases since that is one less mouth to feed. A reduction which might save countless marine life. Who is morally superior?

>>42105369
I'm stating that you're a hypocrite for whining about how I contribute to animal suffering when you do as well.

also stating that hunting doesn't add any demand on the meat market.

>>42105408
It's more similarly to
>Person A buys photos of beaten babies creating a demand for the market
>Person B Buys pictures of stolen candy from babies when he could have donated that to the "Stop Baby Beatings Foundation" which would have saved a few babies from being beaten.

but person B gives person shit about how he contributes to markets that hurt babies both of them are bad people, but person B is also a hypocrite for whining about other people hurting babies when he also contributes to hurting babies.

>>42105454
Funny stuff but at least try getting the point I tried to make:

This debate is not about being perfect but about becoming better.

>>42105481
>but person B gives person A shit about how he contributes

>>42105481
>I'm stating that you're a hypocrite for whining about how I contribute to animal suffering when you do as well.

Far less than you. You also need to take into account the extra suffering caused by the enormous amounts of grain fed to livestock.

>>42105491
So stop eating vegan donuts and donate the money saved to save more animal lives.

Does that not make you a better person?

Or is the magnitude of how much of a better person you want to become limited by the comfort of vegan junk food?

>>42104505
athene got annoying as fuck. I mean I get the direction he's going in and I mainly agree with it but he can EAD

>>42105481
See
>>42105491

A is clealry worse than B. By your logic only a perfectly moral being would be right in accusing anybody of being immoral and asking them to better their ways which is clearly not how we treat ethics in society. We judge bad actions while being imperfect all the time. Morality is not black and white is very very gradual.

>>42104505

Holy shit I havent seen athene sinc elike 08

What the fuck happened

>>42104505
man, veganboy got burnt to a crisp

Athens argument was fucking stupid anyways even though vg handled it poorly

You can always do more. What does he expect ? For them to live on the streets after selling all their possessions to aid the animals?

>>42105497
>You also need to take into account the extra suffering caused by the enormous amounts of grain fed to livestock.
part of the strawman.
>also stating that hunting doesn't add any demand on the meat market.

>>42105497
>Far less than you.

>a man steals 10lbs of candy from a baby
>another man steals 1lb of candy from a baby

>the second man says "I'm better than you for stealing less candy."

>>42105514
>By your logic only a perfectly moral being would be right in accusing anybody of being immoral
no, only a man who has knowingly contributed to animal suffering should judge people who choose to contribute to animal suffering
that doesn't mean a man who has eaten meat or vegan donuts can't judge a man who has murdered a human.

>>42105501
I am not arguing against questioning anybodies actions. I am however not convinced that your argument is in any way sincere. It seems to me that you are just trying to employ some kind of moral relativism to justify your own shitty habits.

Also: There are magnitutes of good and bad and those should clearly be considered.

>>42105548
>I don't like what you have to say therefore it's a strawman

ok dude

>>42105548
So you are not allowed to judge somebody for kicking a dog?
A man that has once beaten another man is not allowed to judge a murderer because both are guilty of hurting a human?

Your argument is pretty stupid.

>>42105546
>What does he expect ? For them to live on the streets after selling all their possessions to aid the animals?
Why not try to have a vegan channel that doesn't shit on meat eaters for being omnivores.

>>42105546
that wouldn't be the optimal way because if you worked and generated wealth you could give more. the ideal would be to work all your life and keep just enough to make sure your wealth generation is at its max (decent enough food etc)

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>>42105238

>china

You wont last long

>>42105550
>There are magnitutes of good and bad and those should clearly be considered

So giving up a few comfort foods and not donating money saved is a justified evil? How?

I'll be as honest as possible: I don't give a fuck about the rights of animals if it's done for something useful

>>42105501
It obviously makes one a better person, but YOUR immorality is what's causing that unnecessary suffering and death in the first place.

>>42104602
Retard. You have a moral obligation to uphold negative rights only. Not positive rights because they don't exist.

>>42105574
>So you are not allowed to judge somebody for kicking a dog?
not really. You're not allowed to judge anyone without being a hypocrite.

>>42105548
P.S.: In your example, assuming that both of those people did it just for the sake of stealing candy and have the same needs etc. etc., the second person has indeed commited an act that is less bad.
This moral intuition is also clearly mirrored in legal systems in many different cultures.

>>42105587
I just spent a year in Beijing. I'll be ok.

>>42105593
And so is YOUR immorality, you won't give up donuts to save additional lives. How is that not a selfish act?

>>42105590
Nice strawman.
>>42105600
You have a weirdly low threshold of when someone starts being hypocritical. But okay.

>>42105605
>all laws are perfectly moral
lmao ok lets bring back that 3/5ths policy

>>42105618
I've already explained. Are you trying to be retarded now?

>>42105630
>Nice strawman.
How?

>>42105587
damn, girl got lucky but that dude is dead

>>42104868
I can gurantee I'm in better shape than you and I do keto without counting a single calorie

>>42105590
>>42105618

>actively increasing and passively not decreasing are morally the same

k buddies.

>>42105643
>I've already explained
Because it's comfortable not too

>>42104505
(greentext is AW, black is VG)
>You claim you're good
Yes
>But you are not a saint, you could be better
How
>Instead of eating donuts once a month, you could eat lentils and donate the extra money to charity
>See, since you aren't 100% a saint, that makes you a hypocrite when you claim you are good

And people in the comments claim AW "won", just like some mouthbreather inbreds ITT (like >>42104544, >>42104872 and probably some others)
Switched it off at 2:28, hope YT didn't register the view.
>>42105055
Male calves are killed because they don't make milk

>>42105661
And that justifies your actions out of comfort?

>>42105681
>Male calves are killed because they don't make milk
Do you not understand what necessitates means or are you retarded on purpose?

>>42104505
Im pretty sure there would be a significantly large amount of human suffering if the whole world went vegan.
Not enough crops to feed everyone. More land would be needed to produce more crops. More than half the crops are lost to allelopathy so we would also have to suffer financially for more efforts to stop this.
But on the up, we would increase O2 levels over time. World would be less populated due to increased deaths from starvation. There would probably be slightly less amount of animals due to our efforts to increase crop production and take over more land. Marine life would increase in quality. Eventually, the increased O2 levels would allow our bodies to be more efficient which also causes land animals to also be more efficient. Both species would evolve physically making it a lot easier for animals along with insects to harm humans.

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>>42105681
That was an absolute shit show, and I feel dumber for having watched it.

>>42105716
omissions =/= actions

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>>42105607

Whatever you say

>>42105724
>Not enough crops to feed everyone

haha what??? We're growing enough crops for hundreds of billions of livestock a year right now.

>>42104830
If you watched the video you'd have an idea what you're arguing against
There's nothing wrong with being vegan, but for fuck's sake get off your moral high horse, you're not better than any meat eater and this debate just proves that even further.
This athene guy is a hardcore vegan and even he can't stand smug cunts like you

>>42105724
We literally have enough farming space right now to do it. They just all currently go to feeding the livestock we use for meat.

>>42105735
>actively choosing to omit something is not an action

What?

>>42105756
Being vegan is morally superior to eating meat.

>>42105596
>You have a moral obligation to uphold negative rights only. Not positive rights because they don't exist.

what do you mean by negative right, and why do I have a moral obligation to uphold them?

>>42105769
Eating only only plants whose production has the lowest carbon emissions is morally superior to veganism

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I just want understand where the moral justification for veganism comes from. From my perspective both animals and plants are just forms of life, and so I don't discriminate in my eating.
What qualifies as "suffering" seems very arbitrary to me because it can be boiled down to life trying to avoid death or extinction. That propensity to survive is perhaps more obvious in animal life, but I don't think any biologist would argue that plants aren't also trying to survive and reproduce by design.

Why is the ability to perceive as an animal more valuable than to perceive as a plant? The distinction is arbitrary and if I cared about the Earth I'd rather only eat animals since plants are far more important in preserving the stability of life on the planet as a whole.

>>42105768
Not doing X is not equal to actively choosing to not do X...

Anyway, I am out. I have spent way too much time in this thread already. I like having discussions like these in real life but on the internet they are a drag.

>>42105781
Good idea, how about you do that then?

>>42105829
http://www.foodemissions.com/foodemissions/Calculator.aspx

If you're a vegan, you're fucking retarded and are going to get sick and have a horrible life

we are designed to be omnivores and our dietary needs reflect this whether you like it or not

>>42105794
animals have nerve system. they can think, experience pain, feel fear. plants can't

>>42105794
Suffering has a cognitive element to it that very much differentiates it from " life trying to avoid death or extinction".

We are basically choosing the human idea of suffering and projecting it onto being similar enough to us that we find within the world.

Your last point also doesnt really make sense as plants are needed to feed those animals and directly consuming the plants rather than growing plants to feed the animals and then consuming them leads to fewer plants consumed in total.

>>42105717
Why did you get so triggered? Do you have any idea how the dairy industry works? Profit speaks, yes, males are killed. They'd cost food to grow and an area to live in, or you could sell them as veal. It's a no brainer
>but I know a guy who knows a guy who only buys from a pop and mom farm next door who loves their cows very much and cares for them
Yeah right, everyone and their mother these days

>>42105867
>If you're a vegan, you're fucking retarded and are going to get sick and have a horrible life
on the contrary, being vegan is second only to getting roids in terms of bump of life quality

>>42105867
>If you're a vegan
>you're fucking retarded
no
>and are going to get sick
no
>and have a horrible life
I don't but thanks for asking
>we are designed to be omnivores
no
>and our dietary needs reflect this
no, whether you like it or not
god I hate opinionated retards more than anything

>>42105924
Opinionated retards like you? Your (wrong) opinion is that we're not designed to be omnivores
I can prove to you that we're supposed to eat meat, you ready?
>one stomach like most other meat eating mammals
>canine teeth for chewing through flesh and fat
>whites and east asian peoples are descended from neanderthals whose primary diet was meat
>need for iron and B12 vitamin which is found in high concentrations in meat

all vegans I know are pale, ghostly creatures with liberal persuasions and a vaguely ill disposition at all times.

>>42105907
hahahahahahah
tell me more hippy bullshit about how meat makes u sadd :( and veggies make you happy :)

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>>42105957
>canine teeth for chewing through flesh
Fucking kek
Entire post disregarded, I don't care if black science guy wrote the rest

>>42105957
>tell me more hippy bullshit about how meat makes u sadd :( and veggies make you happy :)
i'm talking about stop counting calories
your body will go to the most ideal body fat ratio when you're on a vegan diet
no lift + vegan = skelly, lift + vegan = peak ottermode aesthetic
no need to autistically do cardio to burn fat, IF, counting macros

>>42105998
>black science guy

His name is Science Nigger

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>>42105957
>I can prove to you that we're supposed to eat meat, you ready?
>one stomach like most other meat eating mammals
>canine teeth for chewing through flesh and fat
>whites and east asian peoples are descended from neanderthals whose primary diet was meat
>need for iron and B12 vitamin which is found in high concentrations in meat
dis gon b gud

>>42105896
>>42105897
But why does this value animals over plants? Just because we're animals too?

>>42106053
Correct. It's based on empathy.

We need to eat something to survive and it's ethical as animals to not eat other animals.

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>>42106053

>>42105074

>eat 3 packs of donuts

you FUCKING PIG

>>42106076
>but plants tho

>>42106047
Monkeys eat meat in their natural habitat but your dumbass unsourced fake science image that you saved from 4chan doesn't reflect that.

SAD!

>>42105998
>there's no variation in canine length between peoples
>look at this cherrypicked image

I could cherrypick an image of someone with thoroughly pointy teeth and make the claim that we're all carnivores, but I don't because it's a bullshit fallacious argument. Low IQ vegans come at me

>>42105999
And how do you gain weight as a vegan

eat 26 lbs of alfalfa for every meal? Have fun with your primarily sugars diet

>>42106069
Plants feel pain and communicate. Look it up. We cannot survive without ending other life, even if that life is simplistic like plant life.

Following that train of thought, you must become a fruitarian (only eat things that have dropped off trees already) or you're a murderer because you're hurting something to sustain yourself

>>42106148
>And how do you gain weight as a vegan

Peanut butter

>>42106156
>Plants feel pain and communicate. Look it up.

Please share a source.

>>42105681
You are wrong. He asked first if VG is doing everything to help animals and he said he does but started choking when asked why he won't give up tiny bit of comfort (eating donuts) and donate saved money. Also at the end there is a clip where VG is lying.

>>42105047
Kind of like the Jesus, 'don't judge the splinter in the mans eye until you pull out the log in yours' kind of idea?

>>42106148
>And how do you gain weight as a vegan
>
>eat 26 lbs of alfalfa for every meal? Have fun with your primarily sugars diet
just eat until you're full, 80% carbs 10% proton 10% fat, roughly no need to be autistic about it
if you lift heavy, your body will need energy, when it needs energy it will signal your brain to be hungry to get food, then you eat until full, repeat and get results
carbs can be sweet potatoes,oats,rice,quinoa
proton can be peas
fat can be nuts,avocado,coconut
that's just scratching the surface of becoming vegans

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>>42106156
>Plants feel pain and communicate.
No, that's just a retarded myth made by meat eaters who want to justify their bad diet. Plant """"pain""" is not actually pain, it's just a reaction, like photosynthesis. Again, plants don't have nerve system or brain, they aren't conscious to feel pain and suffering that we do, where as animals are.

>>42106173
>plants feel pain

https://www.theguardian.com/notesandqueries/query/0,,-83446,00.html

article is sourced with the study

>plants communicate
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-4w5xYLwiU
http://www.the-scientist.com/?articles.view/articleNo/38727/title/Plant-Talk/
https://www.wired.com/2013/12/secret-language-of-plants/

All accessible with a google search

>>42106069
>It's based on empathy
Richard is very empathetic and he will do ANYTHING to save animals (besides giving up donuts because his personal comfort is more important than animal lives)

>>42106215
You're just trolling at this point.

>>42106206
nigga,are you seriously thinking that vegan never heard about this?
also you realize by eating meat you kill far more plants than vegan, right?

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>mfw people are still falling for the teeth meme

>>42105769
Watch the fucking video, I'm not going to go through the same arguments as the guy did

>>42106190
>He asked first if VG is doing everything to help animals and he said he does but started choking when asked why he won't give up tiny bit of comfort (eating donuts) and donate saved money.
Please explain how this is different than what I said here >>42105681
>Instead of eating donuts once a month, you could eat lentils and donate the extra money to charity
>See, since you aren't 100% a saint, that makes you a hypocrite when you claim you are good
>>42106148
>Monkeys eat meat in their natural habitat but your dumbass unsourced fake science image that you saved from 4chan doesn't reflect that.
Horses can eat meat too, are horses omnivores now?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnYNmGMsU18
Googling "how much meat do chimps eat" I get between 2 and 10% in the results, a far cry from the average /fit/izen diet. If you find a source with more please post it.

>>42106190
vegans aren't required to donate their money to save animals, just don't kill them
just like not donating money to homeless doesn't mean you're a bad person, killing them does

>>42104505
To be fair this isn't a proper debate. This is assassination or character and is frowned upon in debate circles. vegans are retards but this beta is just as much of a retard

>>42105998
I never paid attention in biology class, nor do I know anything about evolution: the post

>>42106312
>pay too much attention to elementary level biology
>disregarding peer reviewed science that says humans are herbivores

>>42106206
>https://www.theguardian.com/notesandqueries/query/0,,-83446,00.html
Fucking lol, you didn't even click it did you?
SAD!
>This must be a spoof question.
>As far as I know no reputable study has ever shown that plants can "feel pain". They lack the nervous system and brain necessary for this to happen. A plant can respond to stimuli, for example by turning towards the light or closing over a fly, but that is not the same thing. It is also hard to see what purpose pain could serve for the plant, since they can hardly run away.
>I suspect there have been as many protests for vegetable rights as there have been reputable studies that have shown that plants feel pain. I've never heard of either.
>For plants to feel pain, they need a nervous system and a brain. And one person cited vegetablecruelty.com as a source that plants feel pain. I went on that site and it is obviously a joke.
I could go on, but it's already gotten embarrassing beyond repair

Wtf, I am a paladin player now!

>>42106312
>I never paid attention in biology class, nor do I know anything about evolution: the post
Please enlighten me about our amazing teeth

>>42104830
>For me, exploiting and causing the suffering or death of any sentient being when it is completely unnecessary to do so is a moral wrongdoing.

May as well kill yourself then you hypocrite. Your very existence in a developed society with all its infrastructure, transport links, energy production, and farming causes tremendous amounts of suffering to all manner of living creatures.

There is an alternative and you could very well do it by going to live in the wild like a hermit draped in grasses and leaves and eating only roots and herbs. It may be difficult to do but it is doable still. You could pack up right now, sell all your things, and move to a primitive African tribal society.

Vegans want all the conveniences of modern living standards yet get touchy about this one thing which in the greater scheme of things they are doing nothing to change or effect positively by their dietary inaction.

Um why are animal lives important again? Um like explain pls?

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>>42106069
If it's all just empathy based I'll continue eating both meat and vegetables. I don't consider it unethical to kill a non-human animal for its meat, not solely on empathy.
I wouldn't kill and eat other humans because it is detrimental to our society and our species as a whole.
If you could convince me otherwise, i.e. eating animals is detrimental to society's advancement not solely on the basis of health but for sociological consequences similar to cannibalism, I would be willing to reconsider my eating habits.

The argument for pain, an appeal to empathy which I find subjective and clearly not universal, is unfortunately not enough.

>>42106499
>If you could convince me otherwise, i.e. eating animals is detrimental to society's advancement not solely on the basis of health but for sociological consequences similar to cannibalism, I would be willing to reconsider my eating habits.

We both know that's not possible. Eating meat is 100% socially acceptable in most societies around the world.

You could also argue from a logical standpoint but I'm not familiar enough to start a debate from that perspective.

>>42106495
they're important in the same sense human lives are important
the whole earth or this galaxy could vanish this second and it wouldn't make a difference in the slightest to the universe, so i can say that none of these are important, but it's still nicer to be here

>>42106499
>I wouldn't kill and eat other humans because it is detrimental to our society and our species as a whole.
Are NEETs, retards, criminals and other useless dead weights to society ok to kill and eat ethically, barring the neurological disease we'd get from cannibalism?

>>42106296
He said he is doing "EVERYTHING" to help the cause.

Meat eaters are not the ones who kill animals. They are buying meat in store. Not buying meat won't magically stop the industry from killing animals so why would they give up meat?

>>42106296
this

VG definitely got caught with his dick in his hand but this is simply a loss for VG, not for veganism.

>>42106499
it just boils down to moral responsibility and whether you think its cool to have conflicting ideas in your head. i dont advocate either way even though i am vegan. u do u senpai.

>>42106603
Supply and demand

If you eat meat you're killing animals.

If you consume child porn you aren't physically raping a child, but you're ultimately causing the rape by creating the demand for it.

>>42106556
I think it being socially acceptable is only one factor.
>>42106592
Those kinds of people serve a purpose, I would argue, and are not necessarily "dead weight".
Admittedly, this gets into pure speculation unless there is historical evidence for the impacts of cannibalism in a post-agricultural society.
>>42106656
Thanks, same to you, anon.

>>42106603
senpai u gotta think deeper

we live in a capitalist society, if everyone stopped eating meat, theyd stop buying it which means no money for the farms. the farms would stop selling the animals for slaughter/producing more animals to just die

>>42106336
>ignores my point that plants can communicate

they're alive and you're a murderer, vegan hippy

>>42106707
your iphone can communicate

>>42104505

who is this faggot with long hair ?

>people are inherently good
>we know the relative moral values
For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. Relativism is a moral chinese dicktrap. Accept absolutism or burn while thinking you did anything of value

>DEBATING VEGANISM

You can go ahead and eat meat and drink milk, you're gonna get cancer and die painfully.

I'll keep making gains, living an ethical life, and being healthy well into my elderly years.

I also don't smell when I sweat because there isn't decaying flesh and putrid cows milk in my system.

Fat burgers giving me (You)'s lets go!

>>42107121
3deep 5me

>>42107440
odds are you'll probably quit veganism anyways, so here's that (you) you requested

>I'll keep making gains
Post body twink boy

>I also don't smell when I sweat because there isn't decaying flesh and putrid cows milk in my system.

Is that why pajeets smell the best in life due to their lack of animal products?

>>42107495
>I make immoral dietary choices so everyone else must be that way too
>Projecting this hard
>Bucket of crabs: the post
Must be sad living in that mental state

>>42107535
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/animals-and-us/201412/84-vegetarians-and-vegans-return-meat-why

>>42105083
Intelligence is a continuum. Cows aren't "smart" but they can feel pain, and therefore can suffer. Also pigs are very smart, smarter than dogs most likely. Have you ever been around livestock? Have you seen a pig shake with fear and let out blood curdling screams as it's being led to slaughter? I have, and it was enough for me to stop eating pork...

>>42107550
Whatever you say big boy
https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?q=vegan

>>42107594
https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&q=vegan,steak

Serious question but why are vegans almost always twinks or people that have cuck tier political leanings? It can't be just a coincidence.

>>42104602
>eat vegan donuts
>taste good, doesn't hurt anyone or anything

Did you have a point?

>>42107625
>doesn't hurt anyone or anything
wrong
it killed animals
because instead of saving an animals life by donating that $20 to a no-kill shelter, he ate donuts with it instead

>>42107594
https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&q=vegan,tumblr

>>42107613
>https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&q=vegan,steak
Yes, we're catching up. You support my argument with that find. Thanks.

>>42107668
>https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&q=vegan,tumblr
Your point? Am I supposed on sjw infested socmed or what?

>>42107594
>Google trends > peer reviewed research
Did you forget your b12 today?

>>42107668
>>42107683
>Am I supposed on
to feed on*

>>42107683
Well...

"More than twice as many vegetarians and vegans indicated they were politically liberal rather than said they were conservative"
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/animals-and-us/201412/84-vegetarians-and-vegans-return-meat-why

Odds are you are soooo

>>42107696
>psychologytoday.com/blog/
>peer reviewed
kek
did the fat clog your arteries already?

>>42107709
Would I be here if I were?
Also
https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&q=vegan,trump

>>42107747
>Thanks to a new study by the Humane Research Council

But yeah you're right my bad it wasn't peer-reviewed. Although I'm sticking to my original point, based on the best available research you're more than likely to quit at some point in the future. Good luck! :)

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>>42107800
Most vegans are cucks.

Fact

>>42107881
>Most vegans are cucks.
Good, less competition for me I guess
>>42107880
You too. Eat all the bacon you have while it's still legal, I give you 50 years tops before it's outlawed :)

>>42107614
It's all the soy they consume.

>>42105140
its the same reason people would go watch a public debate of two not well known people, to hear opinions that may or may not differ from their own.

>>42107929
Not all of us live in Sweden or UK my main man bacon is here to stay.

>>42107929
>I give you 50 years tops before it's outlawed
>USA legalizing pot
>Cigarettes still legal
>Going to outlaw bacon

Is the lack of DHA fucking with your mental facilities?

>>42106069
>Don't eat meat because of muh feels.
I consider myself empathetic of humans to a very high degree but the line stops at humans mainly. Livestock (i.m.o) is there for us to use to sustain ourselves whether it be their meat, milk, eggs whatever. What would we do with them if everyone went vegan huh? Let them roam about? Why the fuck would farmers or anyone keep them around, they'd take up farmland for farmer that would now have to grow nothing but crops and unless you want a fucking cow as a pet where the FUCK are they gonna go? You act like these animals are equal to humans but they aren't. Centuries of using them this way might be why I feel this way, but you trying to stand out against the cultural norm for a "moral highground" is retarded honestly. Tell me what purpose we would have for keeping livestock if we weren't going to use them for what I stated at the start of this post.

did you hear this faggot ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNFjCkkXsxA

he need's to visit /pol and learn the truth

he goes to Africa giving money to niggers

nigger's don't want to work they rather die from starvation

there comes this faggot with money so niggers can go back to their house of shit and do nothing to feed himself

best pala

>>42107649

That's pretty stupid. We could all be donating our time right now to caring for the homeless, but we're on /fit/. That makes us all immoral?

https://youtu.be/EKovEX0G748

https://youtu.be/dvRbVQfzGVk

Vegans btfo

Literally kills and of your arguments

Vegans cannot naturally survive

>>42108454

Varg thinks a vegan diet is just eating salad.

As much as I dislike VG, the other faggot's "arguments" were just OOH GOTCHA shit with no logic behind them.
It seemed to boil down to "if you don't spend literally every bit of energy and resources you have helping animals then you're a hypocrite, and if a vegan is a hypocrite then meat-eating is morally fine"
Just dumb, the type of smoke and mirrors shit an edgy high-schooler tries to argue with

This is coming from a meat-eater

>>42107649
>not using every ounce of energy saving animal lives in the most efficient way

>not using every penny of your money to help dying animals

>not stealing money from others to donate to animal charities

>not killing people that eat meat to prevent them from eating meat

xD u mad feegans, me argoo whell

>>42104505

>2 and a half hour long debate edited down into 17 minutes of Athene yelling his point with VG's parts cut out

His argument seems to be that VG can donate all of his earnings to animal shelters and live his life as a selfless monk, but since he doesn't then he's a hypocrite for not killing animals. Then Athene tells him that he himself dedicates all of his time and resources to animal welfare, and challenges VG to find something he could do to further increase his charitability, and then he'd do it. Okay, how about sell the shirt you're wearing and donate that money to an animal sanctuary? How about give up your apartment to shelter animals? How about you sell your computer and write a check to PETA? What, you won't do that? Hypocrite!

>>42108720
yeh mate, it's literally retarded.

i'm not a vegan, i try not to eat too much meat because it's expensive and vegetables are better for you but this GOTYA shit pisses me off.

>oh, you don't sell your asshole to raise money for a charity that provides COWncelling for distressed cattle? hmmmm ;)? heh, destroyed, can't blame you for trying though, kidd.

>>42108454
>20 minutes total
fuck no. tl;dw?

>>42105738
story?

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>>42108797

2015 tianjin explosion

Watch the google videos theyre even better

Also an example of the type of shit that happens because of chinese corruption, cheating, and incompetence

>>42104788
im a meat eater, but, are you retarded?

how is eating donuts out of comfort at all similar to meat eaters eating out of comfort? meat comes from a living creature that was slaughtered, donuts do not. show me a donut that was being stabbed and beaten by retards every day of its existence. i can find u like a million cows that were
not to mention, this vegan guy ate those donuts once on a cheat meal. meat eaters eat meat every day, oftentimes more than once.
sorry but this athene guy didnt btfo him at all. the vegan also makes a great point, if i say murder is bad, you cant say "well you could be doing a lot more to cut down on murders" to defend yourself killing people.

>>42108058
Once you're on the other side eating meat and animal products seem ridiculous. Society is brainwashed by sophisticated marketing by extremely profitable and powerful industries.

>drunk muh milk for calcium
>eat muh meat for protein

lmao fuck off with that bullshit

>>42109742
>other side
Fuck off with that you didn't even answer my main question. Where are the animals you want us so desperately to stop eat gonna go if everyone stopped eating meat. I also drink milk because its fucking delicious and you do get protein from meat as well. Sure there are definitely other ways to get protein but pretending that there isn't protein in meat or anything else that's good for the body is a pretty dense view. So stop being stupid and answer my question because it pertains to your "other side" once everyone theoretically stopped eating livestock.

>>42110266
>Where are the animals you want us so desperately to stop eat gonna go if everyone stopped eating meat

They would live and die. We will stop breeding the hundreds of BILLIONS of animals we breed every year for consumption.

>I also drink milk because its fucking delicious and you do get protein from meat as well

Pus- and blood-filled cow juice is delicious? You're insane.

You can get enough protein from beans, lentils, tofu, and nuts. You aren't some hardcore bodybuilder that needs hundreds of grams of protein per day. You're a normal person that needs about 80g, just like everyone else.

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Usual reminder that the not-so-jolly green giant uses viewbots, literally nobody watches his drivel

Bottom graph is from a standard Youtube video

>>42105724
this is a bad argument and im not even a vegan.

>>42110305
Live and die where exactly, they have been raised on farms for years and setting them lose in the woods would get them killed faster by predators than they could reproduce unless you want to make a organization that protects only fucking livestock because people like you want them to feel "free"
>Pus- and blood-filled cow juice is delicious? You're insane.
Top kek, milk is fucking delicious. Probably my second favorite drink besides water. No random vegan on 4chan will change my opinion lol. Regarding the protein, like I said in my last post I know of all the different options for protein. On the other hand who doesn't want a nice fat steak for dinner every now and then, that shit is so fucking good. You vegans sure miss out on good food but that just means more for me ;^)

>>42110522
Yes, most would be killed by predators. And? That number of cows and chickens wouldn't exist in the first place if we didn't breed so many. The mistake will correct itself very quickly.

>milk is fucking delicious

You mean pus- and blood-filled cow juice.

>who doesn't want a nice fat steak for dinner every now and then, that shit is so fucking good

It's good because of how it's prepared. If people spent the time and care to prepare plant-based food like they prepare meat it would be just as delicious. Go boil a piece of meat and tell me it's inherently delicious. It isn't.

>>42110561
They'd likely go exstinct moron how is a cow gonna defend itself against a pack of wolves?
>pus and blood filled cow juice
Buzzwords don't change the taste.
>Boil meat
For what purpose? Let me be an idiot and not properly cook my meat. For thinking you are smart you make bad arguments. Why should I change how and what I like to eat because of others opinions? I'm not a spineless fag who needs to feel some sort of self imposed "moral highground". Why are most vegans just really pretentious people on a "moral" diet that wants everyone to be like them. I eat what I like and that's about all there is to eating food for anyone or anything.

>>42110688
You're making the same retarded arguments other omnivores make when debating vegans. Please read or watch some debates because this shit has been done a million times already.

>>42108389
Yes it does, hence why we don't go full blasting on other people's ears how moral and good we are

>>42110718
Maybe instead of being retarded answer some of the fucking questions because the last thing I want is to watch a debate. I don't actively care about what people eat so the points I made are personal interests on the matter. You have said nothing but pus and blood filled cow juice and a bunch of bullshit I already knew. Thanks for being a typical vegan bro <3

>>42104505
8:15 in this moment he had truly won with pure logic alone, VG was entirely out of his depth and its hilarious

>>42110322
im inclined to beleive you, but are there any sources? For all i know his popularity could have skyrocketed and remained consistent (for the sake of arguement)

>>42105331
>eat meat out of comfort
>killing a human being
I'm pretty sure being a meat eater doesn't make you a cannibal, however being a green monster nig and eating vegetables might be considered cannabilism.

All I see is a long haired freak I want to beat up. Not interested in watching.

>>42105083
Cows and pigs are sentient.

Animals can be, and many are, sentient. You're going to have to accept that and learn to differentiate between sentient and sapient.

>>42105018
You missed the point.

VG said eating meat should be illegal.

>>42111160
he also inferred that veganism can be done casually, thus proving athenes point about his hypocricy

>>42104505
This board is turning into /tv/ with the brand warring and concern trolling and the flame baiting. Just post a laughing Evans.

>>42104628
Most Americans think jews are white and borders don't really matter and you're saying I should feel proud about buying a bag of chicken breasts.

Vegan=/ vegetarian
That was athenes point, VG brands himself as the former when its a falsehood and he is hypocritical in his logic

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>>42104505
Why did OP link a heavily edited video instead of the full debate 2 and a half hour debate?

>>42105591
If you're being honest do you think niggers and women should be allowed to vote?

>>42110561
>Yes, most would be killed by predators. And?
>eating meat is only bad and morally wrong when people do it
You literally have no fucking arguments.
Also if you care about morals then lurk more, you moralfag.

>>42105899
I only read the first sentence of your post because I imagine the rest of it is just as stupid
>Are you being retarded on purpose?
>dude wtf why are you triggered
You must be autistic or just unbelievably stupid. I'm not saying you're wrong, just that you're an idiot

>>42104948
MOST animals that go to a slaughterhouse would not have otherwise gone to a shelter. That's dumb.

>>42105098
Don't care if bait, but the difference in test between the two diets is so low it's not going to make a difference.

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if you need to have a fucking twitch chat full of autistic emote spamming children constantly going "OOOOOHHHHH :OOOOOOO :OOOO :OOOO KAPPA KAPPA KAPPA" after each and every point or rebuttal you make with you to give you morale support - you have turned it from a serious discourse into a playground scream-off and got your retarded friends together to help you be the loudest because you can't handle any confrontation without a gang of clueless prepubescent pseudo-intellectuals commentating on everything

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Daily reminder that clarence is vegan

>>42104505
Don't know who the guy on the left is, but he's so unsightly and disgusting.

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the brain turned into what it is now due to cooked meat
meat allowed humans to survive harsh winters
large game allowed agrarian societies to form
domesticated animals are a part of a steady balanced diet in any agrarian society
human teeth are the way they are because we can cook and use utensils to eat, not devour the animal on the spot then sit in the sun for 3 days trying to digest it.

>>42111864
>the brained turned what it is now due to cooked meat
Wrong
>meat allowed humans to survive harsh winters
Eating your dead friend will allow you to survive on a deserted island
>large game allowed agrarian societies to form
Open your eyes and look the fuck around. It isn't 600 BC anymore. What kind of argument is this?

Since the only way for us to have meaningful/coherent and successful discussions despite differing starting points and/or values is to use reason, it follows that it does not make sense to impose our value judgments of right and wrong without proper rational justification (which would be impossible since our value judgements stem from ethical frameworks that might be arbitrary, not shared and not a feature of reality). From this amoral void emerges a principle of self-determination, since imposition of our value judgements would necessarily imply shitting on reason (specially on the concept of burden of proof) and using force or other means to make our morality prevalent. Also applying this selectively could easily be special pleading.

If it is just about ethics, I do not see anything wrong with eating animals. Reason is the starting point. We need self awareness to check if we are using reason or not. You need a hardware that can support a consciousness able of the things that I just mentioned in order to even begin a dialogue (like we are doing right now). If the animal does not have the required hardware for self awareness and at least some form of reason, I see no need to have the same considerations towards them than those that we have towards humans (or anything with the proper hardware).
A link about a discussion I had with another vegan.

www.beetxt.com/vbJ/

>>42111669
I hope the streamer/youtuber bubble will burst soon. Youtube was the greatest cancer to ever appear on the Internet. It ruined so much.

Vegans please explain.

Your entire philosophy is based around reduction of harm to living things. However you must accept that at all stages of human life, your existence is harming living things at all times. The vegan food you consume must be grown, which means animal habitats must be destroyed and the animals will die. The vegan food must be packaged at a factory, which produces waste and must be placed on an animal habitat. The packaging itself has the same problem. The car you drive is made of metals mined from the earth killing millions of creatures. The fossil fuels you use destroy the earth and fossil fuels are partly made out of dead fauna.

Basically the only logical conclusion a 'true' vegan can come to is that they have to kill themselves OR convert other people to kill themselves otherwise you're just a huge fucking hypocrite.

It's like 2 mass murderers deciding who's more morally upstanding, the one who killed 3 dozen men or the one who killed 10 newborns?

>>42113533
>Youtube was the greatest cancer to ever appear on the Internet.
Facebook, Twitter, Instagram

>>42113468

https://www.google.com.au/?gfe_rd=cr&ei=1ONlWdq1McTr8AfT1bTICw&gws_rd=ssl#q=red+meat+brain+development

Pick a link any link. You don't get to discredit established facts because it conflicts with your delicate feelings.

>>42113551

That's not really something to direct at vegans specifically but at all people who try to do good. It would be technically known as an appeal to futility fallacy.

>>42113577
It's not a fallacy though. It's a reduction of logic. What's the conclusive point of moral veganism? If it's to reduce harm to fauna, then the only conclusive action to be drawn must be to kill yourself.

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Not a single vegan has proven they belong here. They come here just for these vegan threads where they can roleplay morals.

>>42113577
>at all people who try to do good
Only if they are on their high horse prancing about like a retard.

If someone is doing good because they enjoy doing THAT particular good (in a SELFISH way), then what is the matter? They're not doing that just to be helpful, so it doesn't follow that they should also do other things. They're doing that because it makes them feel good. Maybe they'd like to do other things that make them feel good. I'm sure they already do those things when they can, too.

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>be a nihilist
>out of that be a traditionalist
>see this thread

kekt, why is it that you guys have such huge trouble with morality. So much useless tl;dr.

Morality only applies to humans, even then it only applies to races that you like. Ethics that we use for other humans are not the same as ethics and morality that we use for some animals.

These things should feel naturally. It is as if the vegetarians have somekind of weird brain fart and have no idea what to do with animals, if they see a man walking a dog on a leash they will go

>WHY ISNT THIS MAN MURDERING THIS POOR DOG RIGHT NOW
>WHY AM I NOT MURDERING THIS POOR DOG RIGHT NOW BECAUSE PETA ALSO DOES IT FOR HUMANITA...I MEAN ANIMAL WELLFARE REASONS
>MAYBE I SHOULD SNIFF THIS DOGS BUTT BECAUSE ITS NATURAL AND POLITE
>WHAT ARE THIS DOGS PRONOUNCES, MAYBE HE IDENTIFIES AS A DEMIHUMANKIN BUT HIS HUMAN OWNER DOESNT KNOW

srsly, these people are fucking insane, whats more, you guys are even more insane for engaging with them. Read the "nothing in biology" part of this. You fucking guys are so far up your asses, so unhinged that you argue on such loose moral frameworks that make literally zero sense. Jesus, this whole thread should be burned.

That screencap shows VG winning though, look how terrible the other guy looks. Reminds me of that balding maniac who's walking outside yelling at his camera that eggs are the best food on earth, not realizing his mental state is due to an excess of choline from eating too many eggs.

>>42104505
Is that a heavy bag in the background? What does he need that for?

>>42113596
gee anon i don't know, maybe just reduce suffering as much as possible without killing oneself?

>>42113679
Okay, so you're placing your life above the lives of animals because of your made up values of what constitutes a worthy life or not?

>inb4 natural self-preservation
>natural want to eat meat

>>42113637
>Morality only applies to humans
claiming something without explanation
>, even then it only applies to races that you like.
apply to all races if you're not a racist faggot
vegans apply this to all animal species
>Ethics that we use for other humans are not the same as ethics and morality that we use for some animals.
duh! no vegans preaching for animals right to vote, just stop chopping their head off

>>42113687
no, just trying to survive without killing others unnecessarily, anon
what's inconsistent about that?

>>42113694
>apply to all races if you're not a racist faggot

I'm not even the same anon but it's proven. Humans prefer those who look like them. It's called in-group preference. You like people who are like yourself or like how you want to be. They've done plenty of tests on babies showing that when given the option of a black doll or a white doll, the choice of doll preference for their own skin colour is statistically significant. They've done other tests where babies were given the options of a black playmate or a white playmate. The same result happens.

It's perfectly normal and natural to feel more ethical towards your own kind.

>>42113719
Why are you trying to survive? Why is your life more important than another animals?

I can say my life is more important than an animals because I have natural self-preservation.

>>42113729
it's natural to rape hot girls for a long time
but then human civilization advanced,people start to think in terms of others point of view, empathy
turns out it's not so fun from the point of view of the girl
so they say it's immoral to rape

only humans are capable of higher level thinking, yet you people doesn't seem to use it

>>42104505
ATEEENE

>>42113738
>I can say my life is more important than an animals because I have natural self-preservation.
let's say i have the same reason
then what's your point?

>>42113679
>>42113719
> AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE
That would go quite further away than "just don't eat meat lol". To be honest, I don't even think it's something that can be solved. I mean, a lot of animals require meat or they just die. Would they get to eat meat still? If they were out in the wild it'd be even worse - they'd bite chunks off other animals while they were still alive, causing even more suffering.

It's okay if you just want to admit that you're a pamsy and not eating meat makes you personally feel good and that your reasons for doing so are entirely selfish and that you're no better than anyone, tho.

>>42113744
>it's natural to rape hot girls for a long time

No it's not. Humans developed peer bonding because human offspring has a much higher chance of surviving when there is a constant care giver (mother) and protector/provider (father). So I call bullshit.

Humans do not naturally rape when they are in a healthy state. Humans developed empathy well before we understood the concept of rape dumbass, hence why we don't do it. It wasn't a conscious decision, it's an evolutionary trait.

We don't lay eggs, have short gestation or have self-sustaining offspring. Reproduction by rape is a retarded thing to do for humans.

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>>42113694
You guys are so puny and pathetic, so fucking weak of IQ. Completely incapable of seeing the whole picture. The question of morality to me was settled when I was like 13 years old. Beyond that nothing else came. Just look at pic related. You barely need like 100 IQ points to comprehend it all.

Morality only applies to other humans, and to things that make the survival of our genes possible.

All else is of no importance. Thats it. There are no buts and ifs out of this. We dont kill humans, we do kill animals, and we also kill races that are bad for us whites.

Everything else is just static.

>>42113763
So you choose to reduce harm to animals when it's convenient for you. Thereby you have no right to pass judgement on others else you're a hypocrite.

>>42113744
>only humans are capable of higher level thinking, yet you people doesn't seem to use it

thats just a meaningless phrase based out of feel good horseshit. Somekind of fallacy in itself. It lacks in meaning and substance though but I guess you lowlife, and low IQ veggiefags think that its magnificent and life encompassing...so deep...wow.

>>42113769
humans don't need meat to live a healthy live,therefore the act of killing animals are unnecessary
>>42113770
it's up for debate, but the point is natural doesn't always mean it's right, think logically instead appealing to nature fallacy
>>42113779
>Morality only applies to other humans, and to things that make the survival of our genes possible.
since when repeating false claim makes it right?>>42113783
if you have a way to reduce suffering for vegans even further then we'd like to hear it, not kys because we want to survive as well

>>42113779
>The irony of this post
Square A is everyone eating animals
B is me being vegan
C is you being vegan
D, everyone is vegan, least harm done to anyone

>>42104505
I don't even agree with VG. His position has no merit to it. Athene is a complete cunt though, he'll literally lie in a debate and when the person asks why he's lying, he'll just say it's so he can further his own ideology. For fuck's sake the guy has no degree at all and claims to have PhD knowledge in physics and biology.

>>42113821
>but the point is natural doesn't always mean it's right

Nigger I didn't say it's fucking right or wrong. I'm saying this is how things are. It's how humans are. It doesn't matter if you like it or not. If you want a sustainable, healthy society that can endure hardship... You're going to have to appeal to nature you fucking ignorant morally self-centred cunt.

>>42113821
Its literally as simple as that, why you choose to bring irrelevant baggage to all of this I dont get it.

The survival of our genes is the only thing that matters. Our survival strategy in this world was that of cooperation, of packs and tribes, thus we made morality for them, because they also carry nearly identical DNA too.

We then tamed animals for food and certain roles, to those we granted ethics limited edition tee em so they could keep on offering benefits to our DNA.

And we will kill and eat those things that are bad, or just tasty and good for us.

The end.

The problem that you guys have is that your mind went bonkers on the "limited edition ethics teee em". You guys are so fucknig stupid that you invented so much fucking horseshit and bullshit where there is no need for any of that.

Like the sjw's you guys just started inventing shit because you were bored and wanted to feel special.

Nobody fucking cares. Go kill yourselves.

>>42113839
>projecting this strongly
following instinct disregarding whether it's morally right or wrong is behaviour of animals which is a nigger closer to
i'm saying you just prove yourself to be a nigger,or have a nigger brain

>>42113821
>not kys because we want to survive as well

Why do you want to survive when your existence is almost certainly going to kill at least more than one animal? It's because that's what is convenient for you to make yourself feel good. You don't actually give a shit about animals, you care about your feelings but you want to convince yourself and others you're some sort of morality bedrock.

I care about animals because it makes me feel nice. It's why I have pets. However my caring stops when it stops being convenient for me. I'm plenty of aware of that. I will eat my dogs if it came down to the wire. Sure it'd emotionally upset it, but that emotional upset is worth less than my own life. I'm fine to admit that, however you vegans are so far up your own ass you can't admit to your own mental tendencies.

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>>42113827
Yea you could also put up space aliens, snales and bacterias in those places. Then you wouldnt be able to move because you would kill thousands of bacteria with your friction every second.

It makes zero sense. You fucks are fucking dumb as shit and I sincerely hope that people would stop engaging your mentally broken minds. You guys are bad for the collective DNA and probably should be gassed.

Look at pic related, this is advanced ethics and how I want to kill more niggers (because they are bad for us)

>>42105238
>he can't slay white muff
Wanna know how I know you're ugly?

>>42113849
nigger,being vegans don't affect your ability to pass your gene whatsoever,how many times do vegans have to repeat that what you do is unnecessary fuckin shit for brain

>>42113858
Morality is inherently linked to our evolution as tribes you nutcase. It's not an artificial thing.

It's why we don't rape each other.
It's why we don't murder each other.

Healthy humans do not do these things because it's mentally and emotionally damaging because of our psychological evolutionary development to be social and tribalistic.

>>42113874
>leftist
>usually dont keep the vegan crap for a long period of time
>have all sorts of deficiencies

https://pastebin.com/vCPtfpRr

LOL

yes it is bad for your DNA. Especially the vegans who starved their kid with their insane vegan crap.

You guys are fucking retards. Kys

I cant believe that other omnivores have trouble with ethics and morality in this thread, all of this is childs play. Kiddy garten stuff. So what that you disagree, lots of angry, dumb and insane kids disagree all the time, but it doesnt mean that they have good reasons.

Unreasonable people exist everywhere and you cannot persuade every single person, just as you cannot avoid a society without insane asylums. Stop engaging with these mentally deficient and insane lunatics.

>be vegan
>eat 10,000 calories woth of beans just to get 10g of protein
>overdose on soy and flood body with estrogen
>star growing tits and get urges to chop dick off
>no animals were harmed in the making of this tranny

>>42113865
>Why do you want to survive when your existence is almost certainly going to kill at least more than one animal?
why not? i care more about my life than i care about others
my life vs their life -> my life
my taste bud vs their life -> their life
>It's because that's what is convenient for you to make yourself feel good. You don't actually give a shit about animals, you care about your feelings but you want to convince yourself and others you're some sort of morality bedrock.
doesn't matter what i think, in the end being vegans reduce the amount of suffering animals
>I care about animals because it makes me feel nice. It's why I have pets. However my caring stops when it stops being convenient for me. I'm plenty of aware of that. I will eat my dogs if it came down to the wire. Sure it'd emotionally upset it, but that emotional upset is worth less than my own life. I'm fine to admit that, however you vegans are so far up your own ass you can't admit to your own mental tendencies.
yes, but you're in no danger whatsoever when you shoving the carcass down your throat 3x a day

>>42113821
>humans don't need meat to live a healthy live,therefore the act of killing animals are unnecessary
Pretty much everything is unnecessary. Having money on your bank account is unnecessary - you giving that up, too?

It's okay to accept that we're all selfish and just happen to have different things we enjoy. You get fuzzy warm feelings from not eating animals, I get mine from being nice to other people.

If you really wanted to protect animals from being eaten (and let's be real here, humans are very nice with how we kill animals, did you know lions usually start with the balls? They get their balls eaten off while they're still alive.), then you'd have to do a lot more. The only way to truly end animal suffering is to end animal life as a whole.

Unless you're putting a line on "humans eating animals"? Why tho?

>>42113874
>eating meat is unecessary for reproduction
So is keeping women alive past menopause or keeping infertile or otherwise unable to reproduce males alive. Want to kill them to reduce animal suffering veggie boy?

>>42113895
>healthy humans

that is why these vegans have so much ambiguity in this area. Broken minds, incapable of feeling in their own self what is right and what is wrong, and they end up struggling with irrelevant horseshit like this.

If it wasnt vegetarianism it would have been sjwdom or some other marginally useless crap like homeopathy.

Bunch of morons and wastes of human skin, incels and pathetic low quality DNA that they are.

>>42113895
>It's why we don't rape each other.
>It's why we don't murder each other.
Those things happen a lot.

We came to the conclusion, rationally, that societies which allow free rape and murder don't prosper, so we teach humans not to do those things. There is an evolutionary preference towards not wanting to do those things because it's useful, but it's not written in stone and it even stops being common if you're the average black in africa or something, because then it's seen as culturally acceptable to rape babies, so you do that like everyone else.

>>42113903
>why not? i care more about my life than i care about others
This proves my point. We are both creatures of convenience. You have a higher threshold of minimum convenience than I do when it comes to food. You are not morally superior.

>in the end being vegans reduce the amount of suffering animals

And? Why is this important? Why should I care?

>, but you're in no danger whatsoever when you shoving the carcass down your throat 3x a day
I know. It's just convenient for me to shove a carcass down my throat 3x a day. Just like it's convenient for you to not kill yourself.

You have no moral superiority.

>>42113911
>Pretty much everything is unnecessary. Having money on your bank account is unnecessary - you giving that up, too?
when i save my money in the bank, who's head is getting chopped off?
>It's okay to accept that we're all selfish and just happen to have different things we enjoy. You get fuzzy warm feelings from not eating animals, I get mine from being nice to other people.
not true, stop pushing this
being vegan is inconvenient, i do it because it's the right thing, logically not emotionally
>If you really wanted to protect animals from being eaten (and let's be real here, humans are very nice with how we kill animals, did you know lions usually start with the balls? They get their balls eaten off while they're still alive.), then you'd have to do a lot more. The only way to truly end animal suffering is to end animal life as a whole.
no, you can become a vegan and you don't have to kill them at all
>Unless you're putting a line on "humans eating animals"? Why tho?
cuz it's unnecessary, fucking nignogs!

>>42113935
>Those things happen a lot.

Yes and now find me a case where the perpetrator was both mentally sound and the victim was of the same tribe.

>because then it's seen as culturally acceptable to rape babies
Niggers are not mentally sound.

>>42113941
>when i save my money in the bank, who's head is getting chopped off?

MUH UNECCESARY SHIT
>gets called out for necessity
MUH ANIMAL MORALITY
>gets called out on moral inconsistencies
MUH UNECESSARY SHIT

It's like a ferris wheel

>>42113948
to add to that, in the human genome always exist a few genetically malfunctions that can lead to a cascade of failure. Since there are limited ways that the chemicals and DNA, and the outside interacts with these cascades, they often manifest themselves in things like autism, schizophrenia, even Alzheimer...and obviously also vegetarianism lol.

but overall they are mostly very stable, near 40% of all humans are something that are stable, 30% are "stable but need some care" and the rest is more or less a mix between completely gone and "high hanging fruit that families only will try to fix"

vegetarians are trying to get their mental care from us, telling us what they do wrong or whatever but its obvious to which part of the group that they belong.

So the question remains, just because they are white, should we help them to regain their sanity or are they just low quality DNA that may as well just get purged anyhow?

>>42113937
>This proves my point. We are both creatures of convenience. You have a higher threshold of minimum convenience than I do when it comes to food. You are not morally superior.
yes,and the threshold means everything
otherwise it's right for nignogs to rob gas station because it's convenient for them
>And? Why is this important? Why should I care?
you don't have to, that makes you a nignog

I eat meat but his allegory is flawed

It boils down to if you are not a 100% saint any value you have doesn't count because you are a hypocrite

>>42104830
>he thinks morality isn't relative and entirely self serving

>>42113983
>you don't have to, that makes you a nignog

no he still is white, his DNA says so, nobody here is a nigger, a nigger applies to a person whois DNA is vastly different to our own, to that of sub saharan origin, not to a supposed insult of a mental state (that you did so poorly)

white men, even the lowest of us have a far lower rate...natural rate of murder, or rape and other bad things. Even in war, when there is no rule of law this rate, compared to other races is still far lower.

Because you see, the laws that are made up are not made by the elite for no good reason, they are made up by the mandate of the masses, of average feelings of what is right and wrong.

the end

>>42113952
equating chopping animals head off with saving money in a bank shows your inability for your limited brain to comprehend this topic
suggestion: be open minded, type more slowly and think about what you type from both sides

>>42113983
>otherwise it's right for nignogs to rob gas station because it's convenient for them

Now you're trying to move from human convenience v animal convenience to human convenience v human convenience.

Human life and convenience is equal when in context that the human is also from the same tribe.

Stop trying to strawman the argument faggot.

>>42105180
>Vegans believe in reducing ones personal contribution to animal suffering as much as possible. That's it. Not donating to animal shelters doesn't constitute a inconsistency in our beliefs.

Suffering is a stupid point to argue. If I kill you in your sleep, you don't suffer.

>>42114010
You must vote extremely left don't you veggie boy?

>HURR OPEN YOUR MIND
>SEE FROM BOTH SIDES
>BUT I DON'T HAVE TO BECAUSE I'M CORRECT

You are vegan to a point of convenience where it makes you feel good. Not because you are a moral crusader of animal welfare.

>>42113941
>when i save my money in the bank, who's head is getting chopped off?
You hoarding money is causing people who don't have any to die.

Getting rid of unnecessary money is also inconvenient and it's also the right thing, logically not emotionally. Where do you draw the line?

You are an hypocrite. You're not avoiding eating animals because it's the "right thing", you're only doing it because it makes you feel good about yourself, because it makes you feel you're better than others even though you're not. And there's nothing wrong with that.

>>42114038
i'm a hardcore trump supporter
see, you're saying this shit because you're incapable of thinking logically, all you're spouting are the most common stereotypes
are they the only things you can use as argument

>>42114058
I'll just repeat what I said because you missed the actual argument part of what I said because you don't actually have any tools to defend against it.

You are vegan to a point of convenience where it makes you feel good. Not because you are a moral crusader of animal welfare.

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>>42114058
yea, you sure are buddy. Most of you are leftist and we know it

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/animals-and-us/201412/84-vegetarians-and-vegans-return-meat-why

you pretend to be one of us but you are not. You are extremely deficient in the juices of life and are a horrible wreck of a person, mentally that is.

Most of you cant even usually hide behind a wall of money, job prospects, health relationships and other things that a good and prosperous mind actually brings.

pathetic sacks of shit you guys are.

>>42104505
Athene; "You're effort isn't perfect, therefore I don't have to make an effort at all!! If you're effort isn't 100% then my effort can be 0 or negative!!!"

>>42114043
>saving money is the same as chopping homeless person head off
nigs
>>42114070
i became vegan because it reduces animal suffering, that's all
>>42114083
just go if you don't have the brain to argue

>>42114087
Your logic is flawed in the fact that you think that a part effort against the status quo is an inherently morally superior position. It isn't. It's a convenient position against the status quo.

>>42114092
If you won't accept indirect causality, then it's also fine to buy dead animals, since I didn't kill them myself.

>>42114092
>i became vegan because it reduces animal suffering, that's all

Okay. And that's fine. I don't give a shit what you eat or what you do. My point is you're not morally superior because you're vegan and you don't actually care about animals. It's fine to admit that because humans are all like that.

Again I have dogs, I love them. I love animals and I don't want them to suffer. But I don't value the suffering of cows more than the amount of delicious food and fantastic products a cow can produce. This position makes me feel good on the inside despite being inconsistent.

The only way you could be morally superior is if you were compared to someone who actively hurt animals for no reasonable gain.

>>42104505
Looks like vegan nogains is bloating lmao

>>42105681
>Switched it off at 2:28
>Commenting his opinion
Dumbfucks like you is why proper conversation is dying out. Youdon't even have the attentionspan to watch the whole thing, yet act like some elitist. You're like a SJW or feminist who just screams stuff without backing it up.