Does this celery coon actually post here? I constantly see these

no i don't

Can someone disprove this mogrel fuck already? If not then wtf i love vegan diets now

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>>41919711
>one
At least 20-30. We even have our own discord now!
>butthurt
Kek the projection

>>41919826
Nobody can disprove him because he bases his arguments and morals around logic, rationality, common sense and scientific evidence

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>>41919826
>disprove veganism
L I T E R A L L Y impossible.

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>>41919858
You have a choice to refute any of this.

most recent studies using more sensitive techniques for detecting B12 deficiency have found that 68% of vegetarians and 83% of vegans are B12 deficient, compared to just 5% of omnivores. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12816782
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10966896
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10552882

On paper, calcium intake is similar in vegetarians and omnivores (probably because both eat dairy products), but is much lower in vegans, who are often deficient.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21139125
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/70/3/543s.full

Vegetarians and omnivores have similar levels of serum iron, but levels of ferritin—the long-term storage form of iron—are lower in vegetarians than in omnivores.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24871479

This is significant, because ferritin depletion is the first stage of iron deficiency. Moreover, although vegetarians often have similar iron intakes to omnivores on paper, it is more common for vegetarians (and particularly vegans) to be iron deficient. For example, this study of 75 vegan women in Germany found that 40% of them were iron deficient, despite average iron intakes that were above the recommended daily allowance.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14988640
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/78/3/633S.long

many plant foods that contain zinc also contain phytate, which inhibits zinc absorption. Vegetarian diets tend to reduce zinc absorption by about 35% compared with omniovorous diet.
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/78/3/633S.long

Thus, even when the diet meets or exceeds the RDA for zinc, deficiency may still occur. One study suggested that vegetarians may require up to 50% more zinc than omnivores for this reason.
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/78/3/633S.long

>>41919913
Perhaps the biggest problem with vegetarian and vegan diets, however, is their near total lack of two fat-soluble vitamins: A and D. Fat-soluble vitamins play numerous and critical roles in human health. Vitamin A promotes healthy immune function, fertility, eyesight and skin. Vitamin D regulates calcium metabolism, regulates immune function, reduces inflammation and protects against some forms of cancer.

These important fat-soluble vitamins are concentrated, and in some cases found almost exclusively, in animal foods: primarily seafood, organ meats, eggs and dairy products. Some obscure species of mushrooms can provide large amounts of vitamin D, but these mushrooms are rarely consumed and often difficult to obtain. (This explains why vitamin D levels are 58% lower in vegetarians and 74% lower in vegans than in omnivores.) (12)

The idea that plant foods contain vitamin A is a common misconception. Plants contain beta-carotene, the precursor to active vitamin A (retinol). While beta-carotene is converted into vitamin A in humans, the conversion is inefficient.
http://www.westonaprice.org/fat-soluble-activators/vitamin-a-on-trial

For example, a single serving of liver per week would meet the RDA of 3,000 IU. To get the same amount from plant foods, you’d have to eat 2 cups of carrots, one cup of sweet potatoes or 2 cups of kale every day. Moreover, traditional cultures consumed up to 10 times the RDA for vitamin A. It would be nearly impossible to get this amount of vitamin A from plant foods without juicing or taking supplements.

>>41919826
He cites the same bullshit studies funded by the USDA that claim saturated fats and cholesterol are unhealthy. When that fails, he starts morally equivicating the death of farmed animals with the death of people. He's also extremely autistic, like a real life version of the bazinga guy from big bang theory. He's also a nigger.

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>>41919838
>>41919858
Why haven't you been banned yet? Literally do nothing but shitpost smug comics. Atleast trip so I can filter you.

>>41919913
How about I refute them all instead of just one?
Population studies are shit. I can show you studies where the average American who eats hot dogs and burgers is more B12 deficient than the average vegan. But then you will say "the average American eats like shit" and you'll be right. Perhaps the vegans ate like shit in those studies.
Anyway
>B12 and calcium
1 cup soy milk a day
>Zinc
Literally everywhere. I added a cup each of pasta, oats, chickpeas and baked beans in cronometer and got 150% as you said

I could go on. You can eat meat or be vegan and you can be unhealthy or healthy. Just plan your diet properly

>>41919948
>He cites the same bullshit studies funded by the USDA
Oy vey those pesky dietitians, wanting what is good for the goyim! Shut it all down! Only dairy and egg industry approved studies!
> that claim saturated fats and cholesterol are unhealthy.
>Claim
Loaded language, and false implication
>When that fails, he starts morally equivicating the death of farmed animals with the death of people.
Analogy≠equation
>He's also extremely autistic
Pot, kettle, etc

>>41919994
>1 cup of soy milk
You better make it two cups, because soy milk only gives 45% and 50% of the rda on calcium and b12 respectively. Unfortunately you're still vitamin a deficient.

>>41919994
>1 cup soy milk a day
You're gonna ignore those ncbi links that say YOU can't adsorb that shit very well? And 1 cup of soy milk doesn't even have 10% of your calcium RDA, you absolute ass.

>>41919969
I'm sorry I hurt your feelings anon. I don't want to come across as smug. I only want what's best for you, the animals and the environment

>>41920029
>Pot, kettle, etc
Please explain what you mean by this.

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>>41920038

>>41920036
There are soy milks with 125% DV B12 but who cares the pill is 2¢ a day and it's literally the only one you should be taking
>>41920038
>You're gonna ignore those ncbi links that say YOU can't adsorb that shit very well?
The B12 links are population studies, not mechanistic ones
> And 1 cup of soy milk doesn't even have 10% of your calcium RDA, you absolute ass.
Soy milk has literally the same calcium as cow milk, and other stuff like tahini and potatoes have it too

>>41920070
You're lying through your teeth about the soy milk as the picture the other anon posted shows.

>>41920070
>the pill is 2¢ a day
What is the pill? Birth control?

>>41920095
>One cherrypicked picture is evidence!
>You don't know what you have in your fridge and the doctor lied about your "excellent" bloodwork results!
Ok you will I'll eat kebab tomorrow gnite

>>41920099
He's talking about B12 pills.

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>>41920095
Even their super duper FORTIFIED Soy Milks aren't good enough for you. This fucking asshole told you you'd meet your calcium needs drinking 1 cup of this. He's a boldfaced liar.

>>41920149
How are B12 pills made? What's in them?

>>41920156
bacteria and sourced from bacteria cultures, according to a 2 second google search.

Hey vegans. Don't lie to me. How much fiber do you eat? If I was to go vegan I would consume 70 or more grams and that apparently can be too much fiber?

>>41920176
Prove those claims.

The supplement industry is completely unregulated, and is a way for industrial and chemical companies to unload byproduct waste material at a profit.

Just open up a b12 pill and show me the real food in there. Also, what type of bacteria? Is the bacteria alive or dead? Can it reproduce? Isn't bacteria a living organism? How much bacteria has to die for you?

You know what I'd like to see, a vegan who put their money where their mouth is when it comes to environmentalism.

You get up on your pedestal about the awful effects that mass scale animal farming has but neglect to take into account that especially for those in the northern hemisphere, every piece of food you eat has to be shipped in from some far away place.

Cutting down swathes of forest to make way for avocado farms and whatever other fad vegetable/grain that you need to eat ridiculous amounts of to meet your caloric needs and it all gets shipped across the world just so that you don't have to eat that locally produced beef (we're not all in the US or some other third world shithole, ethically farmed animal products, produced locally might I add, are not hard to come by.) or milk.

Your diet isn't helping anything or anyone. What do you think will happen to the animals when nobody wants to eat them anymore? They just won't exist period except as a rare novelty, the way of the horse.

Get off your fuckin high horse.

>>41920235
Oh and as for putting your money where your mouth is, get through the winter on bread and vegetable preserves and shrink that carbon footprint. It would be the morally superior diet.

>>41920235
Here's the mind of a liberal:
>We have to stop using paper, because we're running out of trees.
>We have to stop eating meat, because we're running out of animals.
>We will never run out of corn.
They can't grasp the idea that demand for paper trees and human-consumable livestock is actually what keeps these things around, no different from the consumability of corn.

>>41920235

Simply by not eating beef or drinking milk, a vegan is better than you. there's almost nothing a vegan can do to have a larger carbon footprint than a beef eater/milk drinker

>>41920235
>Cutting down swathes of forest to make way for avocado farms
I don't eat avocados

>whatever other fad vegetable/grain that you need to eat ridiculous amounts of to meet your caloric needs and it all gets shipped across the world
The fuck have you ever been to a grocery store? The chief portion of my calories are grown here in America. A lot of it from my very state.

>>41920298

>cutting down forests to make giant commercial farming fields and spraying the crops with chemicals which will inevitably get into the environment and water

Yeah, vegans totally dont cause any environmental damage.

>>41920298
Every vegan who has ever lived has consumed meat and milk at one point in their life or another. Tell me, if you had your way, would no one ever get to drink milk?

You vegan cucks ever going to shut up about morals? It's impossible for most people to ever give a care about livestock being butchered. If you want to convert people to your religion you should focus on shit that matters. This is a fitness board.

>>41920321

>vegans totally dont cause any environmental damage.

Have you ever thought how livestock gets fed?

More than half the U.S. grain and nearly 40 percent of world grain is being fed to livestock rather than being consumed directly by humans

>>41919929
>A: carrots
>D: sunlight

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>>41919838
>>41919858
Do you really think everyone doesn't cringe at your low effort political cartoons? Get a new gimmick.

>>41921071

>guess which one got cancer...
>... three fucking times

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Reminder that no matter how hypothetically local, eco-conscious, organic etc your diet is, a vegan diet by default is more environmentally friendly

>>41921123
That's called bad luck. You don't get testicle cancer from your fucking diet. Just like you don't get lung cancer from your fucking diet. Even Pete's doctors said so. You ready to claim that cancer specialists are conspiring against him with false information?

>>41921166

>You don't get testicle cancer from your fucking diet.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11857417

>cheese was most closely correlated with the incidence of testicular cancer at ages 20-39, followed by animal fats and milk. The correlation coefficient (r) was highest (r = 0.804) when calculated for cheese consumed during the period 1961-65 (maternal or prepubertal consumption).

WATCH ME EAT 20 BACON CHEESEBURGERS IN 10 SECONDS
.... hello guys this is Pete turns out I have testicular cancer.....

>>41920379
appeal to futility fallacy

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>>41919929
Vitamin A: eating 2 cups of carrots, one cup of sweet potatoes or 2 cups of kale. This can be done as a SNACK. Vegan or not you should be able to get probably 3-4 times the RDI for vitamin A you need from plant sources alone.

Vitamin D: Sun for 15 minutes if you live in a place with enough exposure, this also comes fortified in plant based milks and extremely cheap supps ($5 a year) which I take so I dont have to buy fortified eggs/milks.

On a side note liver and organ meats accumulate way too many toxins and are for that reason not nearly as consumed as before. Also due to cultural stigma.

I'm not vegan but these arguments fall flat on their faces man cmon

>>41919913

>B12

Legitimate concern but not a legitimate criticism. Eat a fortified food or supplement B12.

>On paper, calcium intake is similar in vegetarians and omnivores (probably because both eat dairy products), but is much lower in vegans, who are often deficient.

Neither of your links talk about calcium deficiency. Without dairy, it's less likely that you'll hit the US goal of (I think) 1200mg/d, but the RDI set by the US is not necessarily the amount of calcium you need. Calcium RDIs vary around the world. The WHO recommends that in countries with high fracture rates, 400-500mg should be the minimum intake, while in countries with low fracture rates more than that isn't supported. They say there's a paradox because the countries with the highest fracture rates drink the most milk and get the most calcium, and that animal protein may work against calcium for bone health

http://www.who.int/dietphysicalactivity/publications/trs916/en/gsfao_osteo.pdf (section 5.7.5)

>Vegetarians and omnivores have similar levels of serum iron, but levels of ferritin—the long-term storage form of iron—are lower in vegetarians than in omnivores.
>This is significant, because ferritin depletion is the first stage of iron deficiency

Iron is a two edged sword. Lack of iron causes anemia of course, while too much iron can promote disease. Reducing iron stores lowers cancer and overall mortality risk

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18612130

Heme iron, the highly absorbable form found especially in red meats, is implicated as a major reason why red meat is associated with colorectal cancer, diabetes, and heart disease. Iron is a highly reactive metal that causes oxidative stress in higher amounts, and unlike plant iron for which we have mechanisms to limit absorption of, the absorption of heme is uncontrollable.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25592152
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3261306/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3941820/

>>41921296
The idea that plant foods contain vitamin A is a common misconception. Plants contain beta-carotene, the precursor to active vitamin A (retinol). While beta-carotene is converted into vitamin A in humans, the conversion is inefficient.

>>41921348
I'm having trouble understanding. Are you saying that 2 cups of carrots, one cup of sweet potatoes or 2 cups of kale in a day is inefficient? That seems like a small amount needed to be eaten for such a large amount of vitamin A

>>41919913

>many plant foods that contain zinc also contain phytate, which inhibits zinc absorption.
>Thus, even when the diet meets or exceeds the RDA for zinc, deficiency may still occur. One study suggested that vegetarians may require up to 50% more zinc than omnivores for this reason.

Quoting your first link here, right from the abstract

>>The health consequences of lower iron and zinc bioavailability are not clear, especially in industrialized countries with abundant, varied food supplies, where nutrition and health research has generally supported recommendations to reduce meat and increase legume and whole-grain consumption. Although it is clear that vegetarians have lower iron stores, adverse health effects from lower iron and zinc absorption have not been demonstrated with varied vegetarian diets in developed countries, and moderately lower iron stores have even been hypothesized to reduce the risk of chronic diseases.

So there's your last two points. Phytate content can be reduced by certain methods of preparing and cooking food as well, but it should also be pointed out that phytates themselves have health benefits, and have been associated with stronger bones (adding to the earlier comments about calcium)

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17044765
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16080543
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22905230

>>41919929

>near total lack of two fat-soluble vitamins: A and D.

Vitamin D is a hormone your body normally synthesizes in response to sunlight. Food is not a practical way to get vitamin D, you either get enough sunlight, take a vitain D supplement (very common), or you don't get enough vitamin D.
As for vitamin A

>The idea that plant foods contain vitamin A is a common misconception. Plants contain beta-carotene, the precursor to active vitamin A (retinol). While beta-carotene is converted into vitamin A in humans, the conversion is inefficient.

It's a bit misleading to say the conversion is inefficient. It can be inefficient, because your body converts beta-carotene to meet its needs, converting less when the diet contains more vitamin A and converting more when no dietary retinol is taken. Retinol of course is toxic in higher amounts, while beta-carotene is benign and actually helpful in preventing disease by its antioxidant nature

https://www.nature.com/articles/srep26983

Like with heme iron, we have little way of dealing with an overload of vitamin A. Kind of bringing up calcium again, the vitamin A content of milk is something Harvard cites as a reason for why they don't recommend drinking milk to get calcium anymore

https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/what-should-you-eat/calcium-and-milk/

So, like with heme iron, it's something where on the surface it looks like "this nutrient absorbs better" or "this nutrient is already pre-formed for my body to use" but in reality it comes with risks, whereas obtaining it from plants is much safer and has added benefits.

>>41919913
>unsheathes multivitamin
>teleports behind you
hheh... nothing personnel kid

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>>41921531
http://www.webmd.com/vitamins-and-supplements/news/20131216/experts-dont-waste-your-money-on-multivitamins
http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20161208-why-vitamin-supplements-could-kill-you
https://www.t-nation.com/diet-fat-loss/stop-taking-multivitamins

>>41919826
Disproving vegan shit is like saying there's no god. Nobody here is a fucking scientists, nobody here knows shit.

>>41921573
We must summon >>>/sci/

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>>41921071
HAHAHAHAHAHA

>>41921573
No, but many here have a reasonable IQ, along with the ability to share and scrutinize multiple studies to draw collective conclusions.

>>41921573
>Disproving vegan shit is like saying there's no god.
Probably the most divergent comparison you could have possibly made, good job buddy...

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>>41921593

>>41919826

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=what+does+b12+do

>>41920235
It's not even about their diet. Just the fact you participate in a modern lifestyle means you directly contribute to the destruction of nature and the planet.

>>41922026
it hurts to share veganism with retards like this

>>41922045
B12 deficiency is a species-wide problem, not just a vegan problem; everyone should supplement B12. Please stop parroting shit you've heard on random buzzfeed articles

>>41922026
arent both those things true though?

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>>41922065
Anyone eating a healthy diet with a balanced amount of meat, dairy and eggs will not be B12 deficient.

>>41922076
>Vegans everyone
Chemotherapy does kill cells, 100%, but it doesn't kill you unless you doctor severely fucks up.
Think of it like a day surgery, a doctor is slicing you up with a scalpel, but no serious harm will come to you unless the doctor fucks up.

Menstruation is an essential and natural part of the female reproductive system, when a woman stops menstruating there is something severely wrong with her body.

Guys, serious question here. If a vegan can't eat anything that has a part of an animal in it like a bread with eggs in it or a chocolate bar with milk than how does he spot the difference between vegan and not vegan food?
I mean, if a mice died under the tree and then this tree suck water and other stuff from the ground, then technically apples from that tree can have small parts of that mice, right? Are atoms of mice's body vegan?

Sorry for my english.

>>41921531
if your diet requires vitamins to be balanced then it was shit from the start

>>41922106

> how does he spot the difference between vegan and not vegan food?

By reading the ingredients list. Second part of your question I can't believe is genuine.

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>>41922091
>Anyone eating a healthy diet with a balanced amount of meat, dairy and eggs will not be B12 deficient.
Eggs are King

>>41922106
Most vegan products market themselves as such and are priced exorbitantly higher.

There is no system in place to prevent animals from being killed or harmed by the methods and equipment used to cultivate and harvest vegan foods.

>>41922127
Yeah like bananas and rice, those things are hella expensive

>>41922133
They're not marketed as vegan.

Anything marketed as vegan gets a price increase, like almond milk, or vegan baked goods, or vegan imitation meat, etc.
They also tend to be deficient in cartinine which is essential for muscle development and cognitive function, which explains a lot of vegans.

>>41922121
>I can't believe is genuine
It pretty much is. How much of some kind of an animal's molecular mass in your meal is considered as vegan?

>>41922133

Man if I could just eat some kind of mixture between the two of these for the rest of my life. I would satiated.

>>41922126

Eggs are actually a terrible source of B12, the absorption is in the area of 9%

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17959839

And of course B12 is a nutrient. We want nutrients so that we can be healthy. It doesn't make sense to get your nutrients from sources that, overall, promote disease.

>>41922152

>They also tend to be deficient in cartinine which is essential for muscle development and cognitive function, which explains a lot of vegans.

Let's go ahead and get that citation

>>41921531
Most if not all B12, Cartinine and other vitamins that are lacking in vegan diets do not have vegan friendly supplements.

If you take any such supplement, I'd bet money you're not as vegan as you thought you were.

>>41922152
yeah I know, I just wanted to take the opportunity to make a point

>They also tend to be deficient in cartinine which is essential for muscle development and cognitive function, which explains a lot of vegans.
Not sure about this though senpai

>>41922126
The bioavailability of B12 in eggs is 9%

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>>41922168
https://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/Carnitine-HealthProfessional/

>>41922171
Speak to a nutritionist before taking a meme diet friends.

>>41922180

Did you read this before you posted? Nowhere does it say that vegans are carnitine deficient. It says

>The body makes sufficient carnitine to meet the needs of most people

Outside of people with rare genetic defects, you shouldn't need to eat or supplement carnitine.

If you're a meat eater who harbors the wrong bacteria in his gut, dietary carnitine may even be increasing your risk of heart disease

http://www.nature.com/nm/journal/v19/n5/full/nm.3145.html

>>41919913
The only thing non-vegans have on vegans is B12, but you can counter that by taking B12 or eating B12 fortified foods. Also mushrooms have small amounts of B12 as well.

I am sure you know that B12 is not from plants nor animals, but from the environment, which due to the sanitized lifestyle we lead has been hard to acquire.

You do realise that American Health Association, Cancer, etc. take big money from dairy and the meat industry? And due to your idiotic system of healthcare profit is incentivised.

The misinformation is the basis of their strategy, to make money. This was the case with the Tobacco Industry, they spread confusion. You can literally find conflicting studies.

>>41919929
Kill me.

>>41920235
This is also a misconception. Not all vegans are tree huggers. But you have to understand the simple fact of animal farming, the antibiotics that goes into the meat, the diseases, animals standing in their own shit and piss. That does not seem like fresh and good meat.

Eat meat, by all means you are killing yourself, I do not give a fuck. But animal husbandry can be done efficiently and in a healthier way.

Another example, corn is mostly fed to animals and not to people.

>>41920235
To refute your point, growing your food in your own backyard is quite possible. By using newer techniques you can let go of spending money on food.

Also there is not enough of a consumer base to get other governments to raze forests (which they unfortunately do, I agree). Most razed forests are used for animal husbandry, as that requires more room.

>>41920275
I do this lol, what is wrong about this?

>>41920288
Liberals are cancer.

>>41920321
see >>41920688

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>>41922222
ooooh

>>41921166
Holy shit. Eat 4x more meat and drink more milk please, I do beg you. Eat yourself to death.

>muh doctor said it
US doctors especially are in the business of making money off of your problems.

>>41922026
What a fucking retard. Just as much as the half-black dude.

>>41921478
Retinol toxicity level are around 3000 mg/die, so the risk of hypervitaminosis A is basically zero. Beta carotene is always less bioavaiable than retinol (http://m.ajcn.nutrition.org/content/96/5/1193S.full)
It is true that beta carotene is unharmful, the only side effect is that it accumulate in the skin and gives you an orange coloration

>>41922364

Retinol, as a fat soluble vitamin, also accumulates, and can cause health problems without symptoms of acute toxicity.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16469975

>Beta carotene is always less bioavaiable than retinol

Sure, but speaking practically, it doesn't matter. The point is that the most bioavailable, pre-formed option doesn't necessarily mean the best option for health when factoring in the overall effects of the food and the nutrient's interactions with the human body.

>>41919855
sure, vegan faggot, of course you do

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first off, animals don't have a concept of life. they function on pure instinct. they don't worry about dying one day because they don't realise they are living at all. they just do what feels natural. to actually be able to notice that you are alive, you will have to be able to ask questions. animals and humans up to the age of 3 years old don't do that. if they insta dies, they don't feel anything. vegans being mad about killing animals in a humane way is basically saying "stop this, I feel bad. this hurts MY feelings." it doesn't hurt the animal in any way because it dies instantly. the only argument that makes sense is the environmental one. but then it's up to personal choice and culture. personally, I'd like to waste a little food for better food. if you want to be vegan because of the diet, then that's ok. if you want to be vegan because you think you actually change something, then you're wrong. you're just being fucking annoying. they won't stop producing the exact same amount of meat because you personally stopped. for every vegan that is created, there are probably a million meat eaters that are created. the meat production would only increase anyway, so why care about that? because you went vegan doesn't mean everyone else went vegan as well. stop being annoying.

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>>41922734

no one doing it properly is hurting animals in any way. in a sense, animals live a better life because of us. in the wild they'd die of violent causes. from predators, injuries and diseases etc. no animal will die of old age in the wild. imagine being a teen wild pig in the woods, then a fucking wolf grabs your neck and rips it open with his bare teeth. imagine lying there dying slowly and painfully as the wolf is eating you while you're still alive. then we have the alternative. living a long and healthy life while eating tasty food, fucking hot pig bitches while only having to lie and chill in the mud your whole life. then after many years of pleasure, you get transported to a place where they kill you so fast you don't even have the time to realise you just died. which is better for the animals pleasure? which were you fighting for again? the one where they die slowly and horribly in a ditch in the woods? why are vegans so cruel to animals?

granted though, many animals in the west are slaughtered horribly. like chickens. personally, I only buy chicken and meat in general where I know that the animals haven't been "tortured". I am also against killing dogs in the way they do is Asia. that's brutal. they steal dogs from people and then proceeds to boil them alive until they die. I would not mind if they raised the dogs at a farm, and killed in instantly and humanely when that time comes. it's too bad they don't though.

>>41922701
that doesn't make sense as a response... are you okay?

>>41919711

He looks fucking terrible.

Is this supposed to be a good example of vegan 'gains'? It's funny that all of the allegedly ripped/shredded vegan lifters they trot out have been omnivores for most of their lives. Certainly, most of their lifting careers.

>>41919855
vegan logic
>take animals living in paradise their whole lives
>send them back to nature where they die horribly and violently in a ditch with a wolf's teeth around their bleeding and broken neck.
>gets mad when humans kill them instantly with precise robots
and they ask meat eaters why they are so violent?

>>41921160
it's the only good argument for a nationwide veganism. it's a bad argument for personal choice though.

>>41921123
it would make more sense that the guy eating the food that made animals "toxic" gets the most toxic himself.

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>>41920155

You are beyond retarded, holy shit.
Your pic doesn't even mention vitamin B or D quantities or even calcium.

Pic related.
Also fortified cereals have pretty much every nutrient there is.

>>41923004
Anything with introduced B12 that doesn't cost hundreds of dollars isn't vegan.

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>>41921561
That spine

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Besides veganism videos he's actually pretty cool. I thought that he would be some kind of leftie, but he hates black lives matter, islam and all that sjw bullshit

>>41923106
Same, i don't like/care about him being vegan but i still watch the videos

>>41923091

b12 is literally from bacteria, vegan diet is a diet that reduces the suffering and death of animals as much as possible, so b12 reinforced foods are vegan

Also, how does that disprove the fact that it is ridiculously easy to get enough vitamin B12 and calcium from soy milk?
I just pour 500ml in a bowl with two handfulls of cereals and I have all my main vitamins for the entire day, even toddlers can do this shit.

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Does any vegan here actually lift weights? Didn't think so.

>>41923200
It can possibly come from bacteria, but not in economically harvestable amounts.
Anything that lists B12 as an ingredient means it was fortified with B12.
Anything fortified with B12 and not marked as vegan will contain animal products.

You fucked up.

>>41923227
IIRC VG lifted for like 10 years to make a 425lb deadlift.

>>41923243

>possibly

So you're full of shit then and just moving the goal posts, good to know.
Look up the definition of veganism.
Also, vitamin b12 from animal sources is very inefficient, supplemented vitamin b12 comes from bacteria that can be easily harvested from water bacteria samples you absolute retard.

you guys love arguing.
just eat a healthy diet of your choice and lift weights.
everything in moderation, especially arguing.

>>41923227

I guarantee I lift more and look better than every single meatcuck in this chat, and while not even taking supplements.

>>41923283
Vegans seem more interested in political activism than in nutrition, bodybuilding, health or fitness. They're lowering the tone of the board.

>>41923286

> Genuinely caring this much about the opinion of literally anonymous people.

Why?

>>41923286
Unless you are that harry potter looking vegan fucker on litres of steroids, no you don't.

I can guarantee that I bench more than you squat, though.

>>41923286
Post time stamped pic.

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>>41923329
here's a picture of me from May. your turn, cuck.

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>>41923376

>>41922742
>>41922734

lol

>>41922422
http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/819426-overview
4000 ui are around 1,2 mg die of retinol.
Just for comparison, 100 g of liver, one of the most a-vitamin containing food, contain 16g of retinol, an egg contain 0,15g of retinol, milk and butter are also pretty rich and still contain less than 1mg of retinol for 100g. So, you either take a lot of vitamin supplements, or you chug a bottle of fish oil.
Also, this is why most people cannot tolerate vegan, you claim something (in this case, that beta caroten conversion on inefficient only when there is a surplus) which either is wrong, or missing information. Yes, there is a chronic and acute toxicity of retinol, but it's mostly found in people that think that they can abuse multivitamin supplements "because they are good for your health"

>>41922794

What are you talking about?

>Paradise
No

>Send them back
They were born into the endless cycle of exploitation by forced insemination and imprisonment; there's nothing to send them back TO because it's not a natural existence. Animal agriculture ADDS to the death and exploitation. Stopping that and leaving the existing ecosystem the fuck alone does not.

>Killing with a robot isn't still killing for mouth pleasure
???

>>41923266

He's been an inconsistent gym pleb for 10 years*. He only started making somewhat of an effort fairly recently, and it shows by his rate of progress over the last few months.

>>41923514

Toxicity occurs at as little as 2x the RDI (as little as 31.5g of beef liver). That's not even taking to account the existing retinol in your own liver from eating animal products.

Conversion is only low when you already have an adequate store in the liver. That's the point. With beta carotene you can safely top up the retinol stores in your liver and flush the rest.

>>41921071
Well if you want to play that game
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=av7IwBfF5m8

>>41919994
Soy milk stopped my periods because of the phytoestrogen.

Estrogen and estrogen-mimicking compounds like phytoestrogens suppress testosterone production.

Enjoy your gyno vegans

>>41923514
just read that again and tell me you dont see a flaw in that reasoning.

He was actually very well spoken in his debate with Destiny... Don't know why he acts a fool other times.

>>41923643

t. things that never happened.

Meat, dairy and eggs ALL contain phytoestrogens

>>41923720

I've only ever really seen him in his 'debate' with Roaming Millennial, and he sounded like a raving lunatic. Dunno why he seems to hate her so much considering they seem to agree on all this shit >>41923106

>>41923626

Based Patrik has an 800lb deadlift, no? Pretty damn impressive at 5ft7in. Clarence has a 750lb deadlift, too.

>>41923844

I think that was the problem itself. He's said that he rates her intelligence higher than anyone else he's come up against (he said this pre-Destiny), so he was obviously megafrustrated that she became a dribbling retard when it came to meatlogic.

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>>41919711

>>41923516
they don't know they are exploited. from their perspective, they are living in paradise. free hawt pig bitches to fuck when they want, free tasty food, and a long life

vs the wild, live a few years until pig gets sick and dies from a disease or eaten by a wolf violently in the woods alone. the longer the pig lives in the wild, the worse their lives get. the constant stress about how to find food and water and how not to be eaten by predators. when the pig grow old (as animals rareoy do in the world) they are royally fucked as they are the main target for predators. they die horribly in the wild. in captivity, they die instantly (if done humanely)

when farm animals are killed in a slaughter house, they are either crushed or shocked to death. both methods kill the animals under 2 seconds. they don't even react before they are dead as the reaction time is 3 seconds. some even get shots that make them fall asleep and automatically die.

in the wild, a wolf would latch on to the animal and eat it while it's still alive. it's lucky if it dies before the wolf manages to start eating. vegans have never seen the animal planet. they are too busy watching slaughter videos on youtube while attacking normal people in the comment section for eating meat. if you actually watch animal planet or something, you can clearly see which death is less painful. if I had to choose between the two, I'd chose to be slaughtered humanely by humans any day.

vegans are fighting for cruelty, thinking it's humane. it's retarded. be proud of your meat. the farmer has worked hard loving and caring for this animal all its life and killed it before it even reacts to the pain. that's privilege compared the wild animals. (if it's done humanely) I feel good when I eat animals because I know that it had a good life and a better death than it would have had in the wild.

>>41923401
Yuh looking nice and thick meat eating savage brother! Keep it up!

>>41923620
I'd like a source on both you statement, because the article i found gives different number for the toxicity of retinol. Same thing for the beta carotene conversion (which, by the way, is not "flushed away" but it is stored in the skin, where is harmless), my biochemistry book gives me a conversion of 1:12

>>41923997

>they don't know they are exploited.
So raising a child in prison is cool because it doesn't know any better

>free hawt pig bitches to fuck when they want,
Insemination is forced and controlled

>free tasty food, and a long life
You mean stuffed to grow at a maximum rate and then necked at a relatively young age

>vs the wild..

Red herring. The farmed pig wouldn't exist naturally, so throwing it into the wild isn't a logical alternative. It either exists unnaturally in a farm for exploitation or not at all.

>the longer the pig lives in the wild, the worse their lives get. the constant stress about how to find food and water and how not to be eaten by predators.

Red herring cont. This is a natural ecosystem that exists outside of veganism and animal agriculture.

>when the pig grow old (as animals rareoy do in the world) they are royally fucked as they are the main target for predators. they die horribly in the wild. in captivity, they die instantly (if done humanely)

Red herring cont. This is a natural ecosystem that exists outside of veganism and animal agriculture.

>when farm animals are killed in a slaughter house, they are either crushed or shocked to death. both methods kill the animals under 2 seconds. they don't even react before they are dead as the reaction time is 3 seconds. some even get shots that make them fall asleep and automatically die.

Once again, this scenario wouldn't exist without animal agriculture. Furthermore, if I were to blow your dog's brains out and end its life in a split second, you would have no argument to be upset with me whilst using this justification.

>>41923997

>in the wild, a wolf would latch on to the animal and eat it while it's still alive. it's lucky if it dies before the wolf manages to start eating. vegans have never seen the animal planet. they are too busy watching slaughter videos on youtube while attacking normal people in the comment section for eating meat. if you actually watch animal planet or something, you can clearly see which death is less painful. if I had to choose between the two, I'd chose to be slaughtered humanely by humans any day.

AGAIN, this is a natural ecosystem that exists outside of veganism and animal agriculture. It's a choice between existing to be exploited and killed or not at all; NOT a choice between the wild and a slaughterhouse.

>vegans are fighting for cruelty, thinking it's humane. it's retarded.

You are severely misguided.

>be proud of your meat. the farmer has worked hard loving and caring for this animal all its life and killed it before it even reacts to the pain. that's privilege compared the wild animals. (if it's done humanely) I feel good when I eat animals because I know that it had a good life and a better death than it would have had in the wild.

Do I really need to repeat myself?

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>>41923652
No anon i don't see a flaw: anon2 claimed that you can intoxicated yourself with retinol, hence it os better to consume only beta carotene because it has the same bio availability of retinol. From what i know, both this statement are wrong: acute toxicity of retinol is reached with 25k ui/kg (7.5mg/kg), chronic toxicity dose is 4k ui/kg (1,2mg/kg) consumed daily for 6-15 months. Pic related is the paragraph from my biochemistry book that says beta carotene to retinol conversion is highly inefficient (Italian book: biochimica medica by siliprandi/tettamanti)
If you have different sources i'll gladly read them

>>41924161

By your own biochem book's conversion rate (likely a standard meat and two veg dieter's rate), you would still get 57.66%DV of retinol from one sweet potato

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16469975 (abstract)
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/83/2/191.full (full related text)
"It is interesting that the amount of dietary vitamin A associated with this effect was relatively low at 1500 RE, which is much lower than the amount traditionally associated with risk of toxicity and lower than the tolerable upper intake level (ie, 3000 RE), which is the highest amount thought to pose no risk of adverse health effects in the general population (36). These studies suggest that intakes much lower than 10 times the RDA, the amount conventionally thought to lead to toxicity (2, 20), are needed to increase risk for osteoporosis—ie, ≈2× RDA."

>>41924212
>So raising a child in prison is cool because it doesn't know any better
it's not wrong if it's a Norwegian prison with free hawt girls that is mandatory to have sex with. basically the human equivalent of an animal farm. where the animals are loved and cared for all their lives with all their needs take care of.

>Insemination is forced and controlled
you are discrediting sex. you must be retarded

>You mean stuffed to grow at a maximum rate and then necked at a relatively young age
again, it depends on the farm. if it's a humane farm, then, they are taken care off humanely. if you are a sub-human and don't care, then you buy the cheap fat meat you get from those farms you are referencing

>Red herring. The farmed pig wouldn't exist naturally, so throwing it into the wild isn't a logical alternative. It either exists unnaturally in a farm for exploitation or not at all.
you must never have heard about wild pigs. or boars. their lives are pretty shite

>Red herring cont. This is a natural ecosystem that exists outside of veganism and animal agriculture.
that's my point. imagine a human child living in the wild to fend for it own. that would be a sad though because the child would die horribly. civilisation is better for a reason

>Red herring cont. This is a natural ecosystem that exists outside of veganism and animal agriculture.
my point exactly. vegans want to force animals into this barbaric yet natural ecosystem.

>Once again, this scenario wouldn't exist without animal agriculture. Furthermore, if I were to blow your dog's brains out and end its life in a split second, you would have no argument to be upset with me whilst using this justification.
I wouldn't care if I was selling my dog to you on purpose for consumption. and you can't end agriculture by becoming vegan. there are probably a billion meat eaters that have sex and reproduce, making a billion more meat eaters. you'd have to go Hitler style and gas all meat eaters to win

>>41924307
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2854912/
Just because i know somebody will bich about the language, here is in English. Same stuff. Beta carotene conversion is inefficient.
And, for the record, I really don't care about the ethic reason, i'm just triggered because you are saying something that is objectively wrong

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>>41924221
>AGAIN, this is a natural ecosystem that exists outside of veganism and animal agriculture. It's a choice between existing to be exploited and killed or not at all; NOT a choice between the wild and a slaughterhouse.
that's my point AGAIN. that life is barbaric and cruel. farm life is not necessarily cruel. only the truly evil ones. that we agree on. that's evil and fucked up. I'd ban farming like that if I could

>You are severely misguided.
ignorance is bliss it seems. from my point of view, you are the misguided one.

>be proud of your meat. the farmer has worked hard loving and caring for this animal all its life and killed it before it even reacts to the pain. that's privilege compared the wild animals. (if it's done humanely) I feel good when I eat animals because I know that it had a good life and a better death than it would have had in the wild.
no. and I hope I don't need to either

>>41924418
>Do I really need to repeat myself?
no. and I hope I don't need to either

i fucked that line up

>>41924370

You're being dishonest though. Even with your own quoted conversion rates, it's very easy to convert enough retinol with everyday vegetables. Where else do you plan on getting 100%DR reliably? 12 eggs a day? A chunk of liver every day? Good luck

>>41919838
God these stupid little comics have to be some of the most retarded things i've seen

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>>41919838
I fixed it

>>41923516
These aren't arguments imo. We have the right to do whatever the fuck we want to animals.

I do however like vegan diets for the health and cost benefits, though I'm sure that in a few years the health aspect will be disproved somehow.

For me the long and the short of it is the dramatically increased risk of mental illness associated with it. People can do whatever they want with their own body though, if you really want to decrease your carbon footprint don't procreate.

>>41924494
I don't think you can do whatever you want, but you can certainly kill them for food if you don't boil them to death like those fucking Japs do that is. keep it humane and its game.

>>41924433
>>41924418
>>41924364

https://www.simplypsychology.org/cognitive-dissonance.html

You know that there is no "free sex"; it's fucking a fake pussy and then getting it injected into a bunch of females. I'm not discrediting sex; you must be delusional.

Doesn't matter if it's a "humane" farm or not (lol humane exploitation and killing), they still get fattened up and killed pretty quick. “Beef” cattle slaughtered at 18 months; dairy cows slaughtered at 4 to 5 years; Natural life span: 18 to 25+ years. THAT's "humane". Take McDonalds as an example of "inhumane" (as little as 8 months):
http://www.mcdonalds.co.uk/ukhome/whatmakesmcdonalds/questions/food/animal-welfare/at-what-age-are-the-animals-slaughtered.html

Wild pigs and boars? What have they got to do with animal agriculture? This concept is really flying over your head, isn't it. False analogy with a child being left to fend for itself in the wild. Children are born as free members of society that are protected by laws. That is not comparable to being raised in a shed to be ultimately eaten.

"my point exactly. vegans want to force animals into this barbaric yet natural ecosystem"
How many times do I need to say it?! These animals would not exist without animal agriculture. They are an artificial anomaly. Animals already exist in a natural ecosystem in the wild, so the billions of unnatural lives being exploited should not exist in the first place and have nowhere to go but be exploited and killed thanks to YOUR supply and demand. It's NOTHING to do with putting them "back" in the wild. Fucking hell.

"ignorance is bliss"
Willfull ignorance is lol

>>41919711
Stop worrying what another man's doing to his body. If vegans want to slowly kill themselves and lie to /fit/'s face about being athletic, let them. Just means there's a little less competition in life.

>>41924623
What does any of your ranting have to do with fitness?

The vegan shilling here wouldn't be so bad if they weren't all a raving bunch of schmeckle schlobbering layabout goys out to pigeonhole and vilify everyone who happened to have a bit of beef for dinner.

You ever met a poor, non internet dwelling vegan? Not student poor either but grown adult poor.

>>41924494
"We have the right to do whatever the fuck we want to animals."
Why? You realise that this isn't an argument, yeah?

If 'clean meat' isn't a hoax, you'll more likely be eating that in a few years. Eating vegetables won't be "disproved" lol

>>41919913
Jesus this is brutal as heck, do you mind of I make it into a pastebin so I can just churn it out in the vegan assault threads on meat here?

Also, who are you? Got many questions still, some corners that may need to be rounded up.

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>>41924687

>tfw have a job
>tfw eat meat every day
>tfw do whatever i want and dont give a shit about vegan hippie moralist psychopaths
>tfw will continue eating meat and be strong

feels quite alright boyos!

>>41924774
>be strong

Let's see your physique and lifts then.

In a first world country, there is no argument against veganism besides "I like to eat meat" which isn't even an argument. I eat meat. I accept it. I try to buy the stuff I eat from decent farms. Maybe in the future I'll switch back to being a vegetarian, but I'm not disciplined enough to be vegan.

>Literally every CBT is full of dyel's
>this thread is full of pathetic weak fucks claiming vegans can't be as strong or as muscular as them

makes me think

I fucking bet I have the best physique and lifts out of all the retards here trying to justify their shitty meat eating diets.

>>41924710

I live between an internet cafe, the cheapest gym (showers, casual pleblifts) and a tent in the woods, if that counts. Eating and storing meat (let alone affording) would actually be a pain in the dick at this point, but that's not why I switched a few yews ago.

I grow vegetables on a disused alotment and eat weeds, wild plants and mushrooms etc.

>>41921071
I can't stand the green man and his cancerous personality but that's more accurately captioned "Natty vs. Steroids"

>>41924845
PS
Before someone calls BS on me not being dead/a skellington; I buy all my substantial food by doing gardening, housework and shopping etc for old people

27yo KV hermit

>>41924845
>but that's not why I switched a few yews ago

>Common yew (Taxus baccata) is an evergreen tree growing to 25m and flowering March to April. Lifespan: probably the longest-lived species in northern Europe. Difficult to age with accuracy but may reach well over 1000 years

Noice.

>>41924845

>3000+ year vegan
well shit lads I guess we fucked up

>>41919913
>muh b12

You realize that factory farmed animals don't get this naturally and have to be given a supplement, right? The extent of this argument is that we need to make animals eat a supplement so we can eat them to ingest it.

>>41922742
>animals live a better life because of us. in the wild they'd die of violent causes. from predators, injuries and diseases etc

Is this pasta? I'd rather live free and end up getting mauled by a lion then be trapped in a tiny cage my entire life and force fed shit food.

>>41925165
Yeah they literally get fed rejected candy and shit by the tons

>>41924623
my mate is a goat farmer. I have another friend that I a cow farmer as well. the animals have sex with each other. not a fake pussy. you can't convince me of this lie as I have seen it my self. they don't fatten them up either. they let them walk on private grass fields and eat the grass. when the animals grow old or sick, they send them to be slaughtered. there is a shit load of goat farmers in my country that is furious about wolfs killing their goats. some even cry about it. that proves to me that the farmers care about their animals. they want them to live a long and happy life.

>Mc Donalds
they are a fast food company. they literally buy the cheapest meat possible. not all farms are cheap low-quality shit like thew farms American Mc Donald's buy meat from.

>these animals would not exist
goats exist and have existed a long time before agriculture. same with chickens and cows. I don't know about pigs, but I know there exist wild pigs like boars.

not all farms are those evil farms made to mass produce meat for the public. have you ever even seen a real farm? I live in the countryside and I drive by farms all the time. I visit friends that live on and operate farms. their animals are really happy and love humans. they are exactly like pets in their behaviour. all your "facts" may be from sources but mine is right from the main source. farmers and personal observation. the only shit farm I have encountered are chicken farms. but there are chicken farms where the chickens walk free as well. I personally buy exclusively from those farms as their meat is less fat and the animals are treated humanely.

you're against farms with animals in general. I'm only against those that actually do what you claim all farms are guilty of. there are many farms that don't do any of those things. most farmers I have met genuinely love all their animals as they were family. the ones that don't are not real farmers. they are business men only in it for the money.

>>41925680
#notallfarms

>>41925165
>implying all farm animals exclusively live in cages
ever heard of farms were they let their animals walk free? it's pretty normal in the countryside. maybe not in the middle of the big city where you're from.

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>>41925680

"most farmers I have met genuinely love all their animals as they were family. the ones that don't are not real farmers."

Yeah I keep my family members locked up too. I get them to fuck and keep breeding endlessly. That way I keep the women in milk and have enough of them to electrocute to death and eat as needed without losing the bloodline; since my family have great genetics for tender, flavorful meat.

Obviously I milk the women and sell the breastmilk to aliens (still find it a bit weird that they want human milk but idk). My little sister has the sweetest milk, you've gotta try it man! Love her so much. I bring her a basket of carrots every morning and give her back a good scratch.

>>41919994
>1 cup soy milk a day
>https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21353476
>Poor cognitive test performance, enlargement of ventricles and low brain weight were each significantly and independently associated with higher midlife tofu consumption. A similar association of midlife tofu intake with poor late life cognitive test scores was also observed among wives of cohort members, using the husband's answers to food frequency questions as proxy for the wife's consumption. Statistically significant associations were consistently demonstrated in linear and logistic multivariate regression models. Odds ratios comparing endpoints among "high-high" with "low-low" consumers were mostly in the range of 1.6 to 2.0.
>https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10763906
From an anon describing the studies below and the same on isoflavones: Genistein, dihydrogenistein, and equol have essentially the same binding affinity and degree of receptor activation at ERb as endogenous estrogen. Same with dihydrogenistein and equol at ERa. 3 oz of steak contains 1.9ng of estrogen, 8 ounces of soy milk contains 30000ng of isoflavone, clearly higher on a mole for mole basis. And unlike phytoestrogens estrogen is catabolized by the gastrointestinal tract and only about 5% survives first pass to the liver.
>http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/bph.13622/full
>http://press.endocrine.org/doi/pdf/10.1210/endo.139.10.6216
>https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/bpb/24/4/24_4_351/_article
>http://newsroom.unl.edu/announce/beef/2846/15997
>http://www.ars.usda.gov/SP2UserFiles/Place/12354500/Data/isoflav/Isoflav_R2.pdf
>http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0958694611002123
Jamie Lewis on soy
>http://chaosandpain.blogspot.com/2010/09/soy-is-devil-and-not-in-fun-way.html
>http://chaosandpain.blogspot.com/2010/09/soy-is-devil-and-not-in-fun-way-22-12.html
>(cont.)

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>>41926192
>(cont.)
>>41923804
>Meat, dairy and eggs ALL contain phytoestrogens
Absolutely nowhere near reaching the level of soy, on top of the fact that SHBG is inversely proportional to protein intake
>https:/http://press.endocrine.org/doi/full/10.1210/jcem.85.1.6291
which is just one major thing that makes animal products great for testosterone, which can't be said about soy.
and
>dairy
Pic and link related
>http://suppversity.blogspot.com/2014/01/true-or-false-dairy-is-toxic-hormone.html
Also highly doubt the"milk=prostate cancer" entirely especially when in the article it says:
>Estrone and prostate cancer risk in men: As far as the estrone levels Maruyama et al. measured in their 2010 study are concerned it is very difficult to tell, whether or not the 26% increase in E2 levels is or isn't a problem.
>The estrone values in the Maruyama study are unrealistic. With a normal range of <68pg/ml the subjects in the Maruyama study would have elevated E1 levels to begin with, if the measurement was correct.
>difficult to tell
>unrealistic
and
>What remains to be seen, though, is whether future epidemiological evidence will support or refute the currently heralded hypothesis that dairy consumption increases prostate cancer risk and whether we will be able to identify more feasible explanations for this relations than those that are implicated by the results Maruyama et al. present in their 2010 study.

>>41919994
>How about I refute them all instead of just one
Wow ur a lazy fucker. You can't just refute them all , theyre different studies that would have different flaws. The fact you want to make up a blanket statement to assault them all at once just shows ur a lazy fucker who didn't actually read Jack shit. I'm guessing you don't know how to objectively look at studies, which would explain why you're protecting veganism

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there, finalized some form of removal of veganism is one easy post

https://pastebin.com/BA4X8vtz

I got the feeling that everything what I have paints about 70% to 80% of the whole picture, may need some additions. I have no life and post a lot so if you want to make me post there in the threads, now is the time to correct it.

>>41921573
Im not necessarily a scientist, but i am a research assistant that knows how stats and academic journals work. Although most people on fit seem to not understand how to digest a study and go become vegans

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>>41926192

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16580383
http://lpi.oregonstate.edu/mic/dietary-factors/phytochemicals/soy-isoflavones#cognitive-decline-prevention

>>41926362
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Bi5wbzpOHQ

and don't worry senpai, others will probably be here shortly to debunk the rest of the unfounded bs you're spouting

>>41926444
the thing is, these things werent debunked, I have posted them a few times and nobody could make any arguments against them. Though the soy one is new, but the majority of the anti vegan stuff I have been talking about for a while now. So my guess is that you are out of luck.

But you dont even have to be hostile about it, if you can actually find a source I shall remove it myself from my picture, it does negate the rest of the story though.

>>41926573
Fuck off to >>>/ck/

sage, this is bottom of the barrel shilling

>>41926595
why dont you veggy faggots fuck off first. Now nobody has to reply to your dumb threads anymore. Can just sage and leave, as its supposed to be for faulty repeating threads that have amnesia of everything happening before.

>>41922133
>hella

>>41926663
I said it ironically you tard

>>41922824
Did you know that there is this amazing thing called science?

It's really cool man, you should check it out.

>>41921637
Real question is will they do it? The answer is probably not because no one really gives a shit

>>41926362
>>41926573

Debunk what? Your literal collection of blog posts?

Do you understand how protein combining works? Those are isolated numbers. When eating a basic variety of foods the numbers will go right up, since the digestibility itself is very similar to meat and dairy.

In one picture you're comparing an apple to steak, in another the source is a Paleo book by some shill..

Come on man. What's your end goal anyway?

>>41923401
What race is this?

>>41924749

>do you mind of I make it into a pastebin so I can just churn it out in the vegan assault threads on meat here?

Why would you? Every point was refuted (and has had no response), and in most cases the nutrients he brought up increase your chronic disease risk when taken from animal sources

>>41926787
blog posts? kek, most of it is research or links to it. Thats not an argument really. Should I add in tertiary common knowledge things about the (unnatural) testosterone decline in older men (its too rapid to be natural, its so rapid because of overweight/obesity)

Or should I add the european directive research journal which is fucking huge that details that 53% are sedentary.

I could do it, but the way it is now, it is already sufficient to destroy most vegetarian arguments, and also be accessible enough for most people to deal with it all.

>>41923243
Where the fuck do you think animals get theri b12 from????

they get given supplements.

>>41926859
oh here it is, holy kek, if you really want to get into this, then yea, you are going to be here for a wild ride.

http://eurheartj.oxfordjournals.org/content/ehj/37/29/2315.full.pdf

>>41926362

The first part of this you got from this thread, which was already refuted.

Your other links contradict each other, and you'd know that if you bothered reading any of it yourself. Your national academies of science link for "why you need cholesterol"

https://www.nap.edu/read/11537/chapter/13

You read the first sentence, "cholesterol plays an important role in steroid and bile acid synthesis" and thought that sounded good enough to make a point out of, while ignoring these bits

>All tissues are capable of synthesizing enough cholesterol to meet their metabolic and structural needs
>The main adverse effect of dietary cholesterol is increased LDL concentration
>any incremental increase in cholesterol intake increases CHD risk

Just like the guy who spams the chaosandpain blog links, you don't read first what you're trying to construct an argument out of it, thinking the fact that you're posting a link to something means everything you want to say regardless of what your links say is covered and supported somewhere in it

>>41926993
how were the initial links debunked? I didnt see valid counter arguments anywhere.

>>41927007

Start here >>41921344

>>41926993
>>41927007
also, I am well aware of the risks, and of the overall slight increase. I even think that the chart that was provided in another thread was okay. But you fail to understand that 53% of all people are sedentary. If they werent, then their upper limit would go up.

But the problem is that you do not take the hypoglycemic index into the vegetarian angle into effect. (which I also have added), the links that I provided are correct, they take in the risk, they also say what the average limit could be, but they also give a way out. And also give benefits in testosterone. Which is what the whole point of it is. Dietary cholesterol is not harmful enough if you are active, and eat balanced and it will be a good benefit to your biology. But you should also be wary of modern foods, simple carbs and forgo them.

So all in all I think that my pastebin and picture is very adequate, but yea I know that you still are autistic ally screeching for still including meat in it all. But the fact is that meat also has just more than b12.

>>41926859

It's hard to figure out what YOUR argument is. What are you even trying to say with that picture?
That an apple has a different nutrient profile to steak, so... what...??
That eating one plant food for your entire life isn't recommended?
That your best source of information is a paleo book author?
That fried potato isn't so good for you?

>>41927076
its meant to upset vegan fags, what else do you think it means? You are not the only person out there. And people who want to get more protein, and better protein, or want to have a general stable diet may look at these things and judge the vegetarian diet to be inefficient.

>>41927021
this crap literally takes hours to go through anon. I can try to read into the full journals but still, it takes time.

>>41927069

Those are some bold claims you're making with no evidence. It sounds like you at least agree that things like dietary cholesterol are harmful and that most people will increase their risk of heart disease and other health problems by eating them, but this idea of "if I excercise, the rules don't apply to me" is not supported, as nice as it would be.

And what's this "hypoglycemic index" shit you're talking about?

>>41927076
also, do you want me to add the basics of insulin resistance and the science? Jesus.

>>41927021
>The age distribution and the socioeconomic status of the
groups were not significantly different (Table 2). The cobalamin-
deficient macrobiotic subjects followed a strict macrobiotic
diet for a longer time than did the nondeficient subjects,
although the difference was not significant. All the macrobiotic
subjects followed a strict macrobiotic diet until the age of 2.5 y,
and 77% maintained this strict diet until they were 5 y old.
The macrobiotic subjects had lower concentrations of cobalamin
and holoTCII and a higher MMA concentration than did
the control subjects, whereas hemoglobin, mean corpuscular volume,
hematocrit, and folate were not significantly different
between the groups (Table 2). We defined cobalamin deficiency
as a cobalamin concentration < 229 pmol/L or an MMA concentration
> 0.29 mol/L, or both (see Methods). According to this
definition, 24 subjects (77%) in the cobalamin-deficient macrobiotic
group had low cobalamin concentrations and 26 (84%)
had elevated MMA concentrations. Three macrobiotic subjects
(18%) in the group with normal cobalamin status had low cobalamin
and 7 (41%) had elevated MMA concentrations.
In the control subjects, serum ferritin concentrations were

probably this part.

>>41927112

>this crap literally takes hours to go through anon. I can try to read into the full journals but still, it takes time.

How long did you spend reading through those other links (without researching beyind them to see if they were valid) before deciding they would be great to spam in every future thread?

>>41927121

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning–Kruger_effect

>>41927120
>hypoglycemic index
>doesnt know anything about it

jesus, now I know what you are. You are just a person who wishes to get information but is too used to the chan culture to ask for it politely, kek.

The older omnivores who advised the diet of some meat, gave that to me. But I guess since you are from reddit you dont know about it. I am not sure if I can find a good thing that explains the index, and the insulin resistance.

You see, meat lacks fibers and its faggy in general because it has no sugars, so to maintain the insulin levels the body has to compensate a lot. Too much really.

On the flip side, if you eat sugars and foods high on the glycemic index. (forgive me if I have used the wrong term here, havent talked about this topic for a while now), its too sugary and the body also has problems, but of a different kind

http://www.diabetes.org/living-with-diabetes/treatment-and-care/blood-glucose-control/hypoglycemia-low-blood.html

the smarter vegetarians of the past actually used this very capable argument against the keto diet.

>>41927186
I actually read through them just on a day like this. And that anon was right. Also a medfag, we did side by side reading of the journals :)))))

how comfy :))))))))))))))))))))))

>>41927210

>Ahh, you don't know the hypoglycemic index, do you? Haha, NEW are you?
>if you eat sugars and foods high on the glycemic index. (forgive me if I have used the wrong term here)

I hope for your sake that was just some light trolling.

Anyway, the glycemix index. Generally, healthier plant foods have a lower glycemic index, mostly because of their fiber content. I don't know what you're really trying to say with this. Don't eat sugary processed foods, we both agree. What are you trying to argue? If you're making a point about diabetes, vegans have half the risk of diabetes of comparable meat eaters

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2671114/

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>>41919711

>>41923846
Eddie Hall has a 1103lbs Deadlift and Clarence has never even totaled on an international stage.

Veganism is simply a product of decedent living and technology fueled by meat eaters. What happens if forced to live out in the wild or without the infrastructure provided by times of peace?
Vegans will die, you will need to eat meat but it will make you physically ill.

>>41927325
again, these things literally cost fucking hours to read through. Look at the time when this thread has started. I could probably argue with some accuracy that the vegans in general are more conscious about what they eat. Compared to the generic dumb, fat americans who just eat everything.

That would still not mean that a conscious "elite omnivore" diet is not healthier still, but this argument is just the top of my head, I am sorry but I will have to leave you for now. Nice sample size this research has though. But why dont you read through my research journals, even the EU thing, I believe that most of the recommendations, and even the classifications were in line with the "hyperresponder" status quo. And also the exercise.

No what I am advocating is not what you advocate, neither is it what you think that I am advocating. It is a moderate meat diet, with an eye to LDL, to the glycemic index, and a bunch of other factors. Specifically for more testosterone.

>>41919969
What trip mean?

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>>41926082
>I get them to fuck and keep breeding endlessly

>>41921160
I tested my carbon footprint just recently with one of those calculators. Despite driving an old car and eating meat, I barely keep the lights on at home, I never heat, I rarely buy new clothes or shoes, almost all of my food purchases come from local sources and I walk anywhere I can by foot. If everyone lived like me, apparently, we'd need only like 60% of the resources earth provides and we'd have no more climate problems. I guess Mr. 10 new sweaters and pants from Bangladesh every months, Mr. 10lbs of exotic foreign produce a week and Mr. Better turn up the heat because I'm a pussy, wouldn't understand that there are other ways to help our planet.

>>41921415
No, he's saying the process of converting beta-carotine into vitamin A is inefficient in comparison.

>>41927431

>again, these things literally cost fucking hours to read through.

I don't get the impression that you read any of what you post to argue against vegans with.

>I could probably argue with some accuracy that the vegans in general are more conscious about what they eat

In that diabetes study it wouldn't be a fair explanation. It took place in a very health-conscious community, and the rates of diabetes went up linearly the more animal products were included in the diet (vegan < vegetarian < fish eaters < semi-vegetarians < non-vegetarians) even after controlling for things like BMI, physical activity, sleep habits, alcohol use, and TV watching.

If you have some particular research you find very compelling, I might look through it, but I've already looked through so many of these links and they hardly ever say what the person posting them is trying to make a point of, and in a lot of cases say the opposite, or are taken out of context.

You atleast seem to have a reasonable take on diet; not pretending that animal products have no harmful effects, but keeping your intake low and monitoring some of the biomarkers they might effect. I think including these foods for reason of testosterone is misguided, but you at least sound like you eat a mainly plant-based diet, which is good.

Anyway, good day

>>41927740
about 200 grams or so, with eggs, and the exersize (which is widely recommended for beetus faggots because it does indeed raise the threshold, in the us, but also in the EU, legally speaking too, I could sue you for malpractice if you were a doctor lol) is going to be statistically insignificant, and will give you the benefits of testosterone still. Pretty much zero downsides really, maybe the end result would be 2 years less of lifespan, but its not going to be 10 to 20 years less compared to meat only eaters, or general fat slobs.

But for this small sacrifice you are going to get faster mental response times, less hassle with food, more energy in general. I think that its a fairly good strategy. Overall there are going to be more benefits than downsides with an "elite omnivore diet"

>>41927789
yea its webm or whatever, but its general doctors advise that is based on the fact that exersize does reduce cholesterol, but it also means that you can max out these benefits, so this study

>physical activity, sleep habits, alcohol use, and TV watching.

probably did not take that into account as it is literal advice of most institution, most nations even. Bound by law and violence upon you.

>>41927842
http://www.webmd.com/cholesterol-management/features/exercise-to-lower-cholesterol

>>41927789

This point about testosterone is made up though. As pointed out earlier, you took a link that said "cholesterol plays an important role in cholesterol synthesis" and took it out of context to mean "eating cholesterol raises testosterone" when the next few lines say clearly that the human body synthesizes all the cholesterol it needs for its biological functions. The benefits you're claiming that form the backbone of your beliefs are made up. At the same time, you're imagining that as long as you're physically active, the risks are neglible, because a paper shows that exercise lowers LDL. For one, exercise + a diet that also lowers cholesterol would be more effective than one, and your previous point was just about how you think more cholesterol will raise your testosterone. It's just a jumble of contradictory broscience.

If this thread is still up later, we might talk again

>>41927916

*in steroid synthesis

>>41927933
>>41927916
so the core of the "cholesterol = more test" is now under attack? Kek. I remember sleeplishly that it was fairly substantiated. Hm, could try to find the link back but would probably, definitely take a long time. But as you must have noticed I am not that scientifically weak. I reckon that this piece of the puzzle is somewhat 30 to 40% easy to find back and prove. And what then? Would you actually become a meat eater then?

>>41927916
> At the same time, you're imagining that as long as you're physically active, the risks are neglible, because a paper shows that exercise lowers LDL

also this whole bit is just inflammatory. You are doing it wrong, its not just one paper, its literally the advice of most institutions and nations on this planet. Quite the authority "fallacy" I got rite here lol.

>>41923804

Hmmmmm

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>>41926082
I love my cat. doesn't mean I make my gf eat from a bowl on the floor. this argument just proved to everyone in this thread that you're an idiot. just go and make your mother catch a ball or something. you do that with dogs so that means you'd do the same to her right?
pic related. it would be you as a failed abortion.

>>41924797
Why are you not a vegan?
I like to eat meat.

How is this not an argument?

>>41920052
I believe he's calling you a hypocrite, friendo.

>>41929012
Because it's an opinion vs. facts

>>41929012
>I like to eat meat.
>How is this not an argument?
I like to rape underage boys. Why should I stop? I gave the perfect argument. I like it it satisfies my peepee
>U-u-uh waahhh you can't compare animals to humans
I'm not. I'm explaining why the sentence "I like X therefore X is justified" is not an argument by demonstrating a scenario where it doesn't work. If it doesn't work under a context, it is illogical and therefore not an argument.

>>41919711
and his name is GEEGAN VAINS

>>41931715
I guess you're right whats that logical fallacy called? Anyway I'm going to keep being non vegan because it's delicious and I'm pretty sure if you limit red meat and eat locally sourced its not that bad, good luck on your vegan journey. Also I've watched this guys video and he seems really annoying and possibly unstable.

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>>41931835
>I'm pretty sure if you limit red meat
...if I only rape little boys once a month am I a good person?
>eat locally sourced its not that bad,

We should make it a rule that anytime someone gives says dumb shit about fitness, he has to send pics of his body if anyone asks him to.

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>>41931835
>Also I've watched this guys video and he seems really annoying and possibly unstable.
He is. Pic related however. Anyway have a hot chick as eye bleach.
https://youtu.be/UcN7SGGoCNI
Inb4 2/10 elbows too pointy

>>41931876
>if I only rape little boys once a month am I a good person?
You act as if vegans don't kill any animals at all. How can vegans be considered morally superior to mear eaters if they both kill animals for personal gain? Is someone that rapes and murders five little boys better than someone that rapes and murders six?

>>41931876
I don't care about killing animals if that's what you're getting at. I meant limiting red meat because I do think it could lead to colon problems later in life. Why do you keep comparing meat to raping little boys? That's a really obtuse argument and its starting to get upsetting, they aren't even remotely similar. Vegans are fucked up.

>>41920043

>I only want what's best for yo

How about just mind your own fucking business?

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>>41923376

Nice penis measuring contest, fags.

>>41931898
You're acting like I didn't know this, I worked at a ben & jerry's in high school and had to deal with these faggots protesting outside the store when I was just trying to make money and serve people ice cream. Maybe I'm fucked up but my world view is such that I really don't lose much sleep over the treatment of livestock.

>>41931913
How do vegans kill animals?

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>>41931913
>You act as if vegans don't kill any animals at all.
Way less.
If a calorie of crops kills a mouse (arbitrary for the sake of conversation), a calorie of cow kills about 20 mice. Plus the cow.
>How can vegans be considered morally superior
Loaded question/begging the answer. I don't think I am better than you, I am just listening to my conscience and imploring others to do the same.
>to mear eaters if they both kill animals for personal gain?
Killing a cow is inherently bad. You specifically breed it to kill it.
Hunting a deer is better because it lived a better life but you still had the goal of killing it.
Insect and rodent bykill during agriculture is collateral damage, not inherently evil. Similar to driving a car. We take the risk that we may kill or be killed on the road, because the benefit far outweighs the risk.
Also, castle doctrine. The cow was enslaved from day one, the rodent that was ran over by the tractor trespassed the farmer's property
>Is someone that rapes and murders five little boys better than someone that rapes and murders six?
5/6 is implying that vegans kill just a bit fewer animals than non vegans which is not the case.
Someone who kills one nigger in self defense IS better than someone who kills 20 niggers and also raped and kills an innocent mother who was in shackles all 20 years of her life if that's what you're asking.
>>41931916
>I don't care about killing animals
I don't care about raping little boys
>Why do you keep comparing meat to raping little boys? That's a really obtuse argument and its starting to get upsetting, they aren't even remotely similar. Vegans are fucked up.
Read >>41931715
>I'm not. I'm explaining why the sentence "I like X therefore X is justified" is not an argument by demonstrating a scenario where it doesn't work. If it doesn't work under a context, it is illogical and therefore not an argument.
Again

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>>41932043
>Killing a cow is inherently bad. You specifically breed it to kill it.

Cool how you can decide what's bad or good.

>>41923376
Nigga even wearing a retard helmet lol

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>>41932096

>>41932140
How much do you lift ?

Thought so :^)

>>41932043
>Loaded question/begging the answer. I don't think I am better than you, I am just listening to my conscience and imploring others to do the same.
So you have no issue with people eating meat? If yes, then why should everyone follow your set of morals? Morality is completely subjective, who are you to decide what's best? If not, what makes you compelled to want others to "follow their conscience"?

>>41932180
Morality isn't subjective you smeghead. How stupid can you be?

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>>41932140

>>41932007

Buying crops from farms that had to kill encroaching animals so they could sell said crops

If wild boars for example werent killed they could easily break through a fence, normal or electric, and fuck up an entire farm of crops

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>>41932180
>So you have no issue with people eating meat?
Read again.
>I am just listening to my conscience and imploring others to do the same.

>If yes, then why should everyone follow your set of morals?
You should follow your conscience anon, not "my morals"

>Moralityletely subjective, who are you to decide what's best?
Pic
> If not, what makes you compelled to want others to "follow their conscience"?
My conscience, duh

I think it's time to officially stop bumping vegan threads lads. Nothing good to come from it.

>>41932176
Impressed? :^)
>>41932244
I would appreciate it if you read >>41932043

>>41932245
>You should follow your conscience anon, not "my morals"
So once again, do you have an issue with anyone eating meat if their conscience doesn't coincide with yours?
>Pic
Killing a human is wrong because humans are capable of creating and contributing to society. What makes it immoral to kill an animal?

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Y all need to understand morality is created by society, and exists to maintain order and ensure prosperity.

Murder is immoral because it's not possible for a society to function when anyone can kill anyone else. Slavery is immoral because it isn't manageable as population increases, causing revolts and civil wars. Basically, a pragmatic interpretation of karma.

Livestock doesn't pose much of a threat to society, you could kill every cow and pig tomorrow and they wouldn't be able to do shit about it. Killing them for fun is still immoral because you're wasting precious food for no good reason, but there's nothing wrong with eating them. Within reason ofc, glutonny is a sin.

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James "Tiny" Vest is considering going vegan. He believes it is healthier and easier on the digestive system. We shall see how his gains manage. His YouTube account is raw, no bullshit, mostly because he isn't in it for money. He is in it as an act of good will, which is kind of amazing, for this YOOL 2017.

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>>41922156
>>41922106

>>41920029
>make study that compares sedentary pizza planets and fit vegetarians
Oy vey look at this, ALL meat eaters are less healthy! Now subscribe to my dietary service and buy my magic snake oil that will reduce your blood cholesterol and reduce your heart attack risk by 36%*
[spoiler]*it's actually less than 1% due to simple genetic differences in study participants, but who cares about truth in advertising[/spoiler]

Just one

ONE

Vegan fag who posts in these threads day after day. Prove that you lift or prove that you do an impressive amount of cardio.

If you're not fit then you aren't fit to give anyone here diet advice. Without protein supplements vegans can't be strong. It takes twice the amount if protein since the human body can't take in plant protein with efficiency. You'd have to rely on powdered vegan protein just to get in the double amount without getting fat.

>>41920298
Yes there is, not having children.
Breeders are the worst people on the planet, we don't need 10 billion people and infinite growth, except for funnel continuously more money and power into the pockets of jews.

>>41932721
>It takes twice the amount of protein since the human body can't take in plant protein with efficiency
We've reached levels of meatcuckery that shouldn't even be possible

>>41927985

>so the core of the "cholesterol = more test" is now under attack? Kek. I remember sleeplishly that it was fairly substantiated.

Yes, that is broscience. If you find something, let me see, but I haven't found any support for that claim. Someone once posted a reddit link with some studies they thought were evidence, but like always, it turned out they just didn't read it correctly. Again, the fact that cholesterol is involved in steroid hormone synthesis (which also includes estrogen and cortisol) does not mean that eating more cholesterol or having more cholesterol in your blood will produce more steroid hormones, or testosterone in particular. Leydig cells can synthesize their own cholesterol on-site.

>as you must have noticed I am not that scientifically weak

I have not

>>41927996

>its not just one paper, its literally the advice of most institutions and nations on this planet

I'm not contesting that physical activity lowers LDL cholesterol, I'm saying that to take this fact and then say "therefore everything will be fine as long as I'm exercising" is just wishful thinking. The benefits that you think make this worthwhile are made up.

>>41919855
leave vegan queer

>>41921203
>correlation equals causation

>>41921296
>vitamin A from carrots
Come on man, you claim to be oh so superior in knowledge as a vegan.

>>41932877

The go-to response for every piece of research showing harm from animal products

>>41922133
>rice
Okay seriously, if you are a vegan and you eat rice, you are a hypocrite. Cultivating rice is very harmful to the environment and leaves a massive carbon footprint compared to other plants. Unless you are using hydroponics of course.

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https://www.greatplainslaboratory.com/articles-1/2015/11/13/the-implications-of-low-cholesterol-in-depression-and-suicide


hmmmmmmm im really thinking over here

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>>41932758
Go eat some of your kin, couch potato.

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>>41933100
damn scooby is fucking savage

>>41933096

Depression tends to decrease appetite. Lack of appetite causes weight loss. Weight loss lowers cholesterol.

>>41932758
You don't have to eat meat. You can substitute animal flesh for dairy and eggs. Vegetarians have the right idea. They get to "be more ethical on the planet" or whatever non-fit shit you keep spewing, while also making gains.

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>>41928931

Hahaha oh wow. The delusion is strong with you lad. Please enlighten me then; how was 'loving the animals like family' an argument if it has NO bearing on how you support treating them? Hahahahaha

>>41919929
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19562864
>It is the position of the American Dietetic Association that appropriately planned vegetarian diets, including total vegetarian or vegan diets, are healthful, nutritionally adequate, and may provide health benefits in the prevention and treatment of certain diseases. Well-planned vegetarian diets are appropriate for individuals during all stages of the life cycle, including pregnancy, lactation, infancy, childhood, and adolescence, and for athletes.

>>41933222
Dairy and eggs are less ethical than meat. At least animals raised for meat get the sweet release of death before the year is over, while dairy cows get raped and tortured for 5 years before they get killed. Plus they are actually even worse for the environment than meat.

>>41927789
>faster mental response times
citation needed
>less hassle with food
subjective
>more energy in general
citation needed

>>41923720
He was okay in his debate until he went full retard and kept asking if the guy he was talking to was a sociopath. Then at the end he BTFO'd himself with the trolley question.

>>41931933
I'll just go ahead and foot-fuck your Mother to death then.

>m-mind your own business ;(

>>41932307

So if a human didn't create and contribute to society it would be find to neck them?

>>41932414

>Livestock doesn't pose much of a threat to society, you could kill every cow and pig tomorrow and they wouldn't be able to do shit about it. Killing them for fun is still immoral because you're wasting precious food for no good reason, but there's nothing wrong with eating them.

So I can go ahead and kill hundreds of cats, dogs and guinea-pigs in the privacy of my own home as long as I eat them after?

>>41932691
>hey guys I heard this thing on a blog that suits my agenda, watch me parrot it

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OwO what's this?

What's stopping me from getting literal mushroom tip gains lads? Will this give me cancer?

>>41932691
>vegetables are snake oil now

>>41933072

So... use hydroponics. Surely that's a mile better than growing all the food for fattening up livestock as well as actually farming the animals combined

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>>41933451
if you'd love your animals, how retarded would it be for you to fucking torture them unnecessarily? no sane dog or cat owner (that loves their pets as they were family) would do any of these things you see in those videos on youtube where they visit a mass produce farm. if you'd be forced to torture the animals like you claim all farmers are, then no farmer would actually love their animals. they would avoid that scenario in the first place. you call me delusional but in reality, it's the opposite

>I claim there are different farms and different farmers. granted, evil farms exist where they actually do what you claim, but not all farms do this. the farm is owned by the farmer in many cases, so it would be stupid to claim all farms are exactly the same.

>you claim all farms in the world are exactly the same and all farmers hate their animals to the core. you read how a pretty shit and cheap fast food company got their meat, and now you believe "oh wow. so that's how all farms are operated around the globe"

you call me delusional because I believe there is variation to how all farms are operated. believe it or not, but a lot of meat eaters care about how the animals were treated before they died. I sure do.

>they are being exploited. what about their feelings? :((((
that's literally the most retarded sentence I have heard from a vegan btw. animals on a farm are not developed intelligent scientists that can make spaceships to go to the moon. they are dumber than a person with downs syndrome. they don't know they are "exploited" and even if you fucking told it, it wouldn't know. they are just happy they get to be safe from predators and get free food and in some but not all cases, love from their farmer and his family.

>pic related. it's you in the door vs me that opened it.

>>41933737
You'd be surprised how many people have called grains peasant food shilled by the jews to keep us too weak to rise up.

>>41933730

Cheers m80, been wondering about that for a long time but always forgot to google it.

I'm suprised it's so good, thought it would be shitty like soy.

>>41933766
do you know why the vegan cult fails? it's because the solution is too extreme. it's like someone was to come around and say "CLOTHES ARE ALL MADE IN SWEATSHOPS, LET US NEVER WEAR ANY CLOTHES AGAIN, OR YOU HATE CHILDREN" and "OH, I SEE YOU HAVE CHILDREN, FRANK, WELL YOU DON'T LOVE THEM, OR YOU WOULDNT WEAR THOSE CLOTHS." but do you know what actually a lot of people do? they say,"I don't but clothes from sweatshops because of the practice in disgusting" they attack the companies responsible for it, not the entire concept of clothing. if all vegans were to say "I eat meat, but I never buy meat from these mass produced companies because the practice is cruel and inhumane, and the meat is unhealthy compared to normal meat." now you'd have a really good point, and people would have joined you in the millions. only poor people would buy food from there as there actually is a pressure to not buy the cheap meat as everyone knows that it's poor quality and made in a horrible way. instead, the vegans chose to go for the more drastic measure and therefore shoot them self in the foot. now veganism is just a meme. people think of vegans as those annoying assholes that always demand special treatment for not eating meat. if my friend that showed me those animal torture videos on youtube said right after "this is why I won't buy cheap meat anymore" then I'd actually join him. so would most people that have the money for it. that's how vegans killed their movement.

>>41933827

>hey, instead of buying that ribeye, go down 2 aisles and get some black beans

IT'S SO EXTREME, NOBODY CAN DO THIS

Your clothing analogy makes no sense. You can produce clothes without slave labor. You can't, at least currently, produce meat without at the very list killing an animal, and on a large scale without causing suffering.

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Mmmm tasty burgers

>>41933766

No sane dog or cat owner (that apparently loves it) would bolt it in the head and eat it one day because he couldn't be bothered to reach into the vegetable cupboard.

#notallfarms
Your magical farms are an insignificant minority.

">they are being exploited. what about their feelings? :((((
that's literally the most retarded sentence I have heard from a vegan btw"
Err... you just wrote that statement from your own mind. Are you a vegan?

"animals on a farm are not developed intelligent scientists that can make spaceships to go to the moon."
Did you personally make a spaceship and go to the moon? Ah better kill and eat you then, because that's easier than sticking a seed in the ground.

"they are dumber than a person with downs syndrome."
Ah so it's find to kill and eat people with extreme retardation then, because that's easier than sticking a seed in the ground.

"they don't know they are "exploited" and even if you fucking told it, it wouldn't know."
That's because you don't speak cow and they're incredibly young, bonehead. If you raised a child in prison and never exposed it to the outside world, fed it up and then killed it to eat it, that's fine because it doesn't understand what's going on and doesn't know any better?

"they are just happy they get to be safe from predators and get free food and in some but not all cases, love from their farmer and his family."
Hypocrite. So it's okay to make presumptions of an animals feelings if you do it? Also, If a farmer didn't breed them there wouldn't be the potential for that alternative in the first place. That's like killing and eating your kid one day and as justification saying 'ahh well, they could have been born in the jungle and eaten by a snake, so this is a fair deal really'. Yeah how about, YOU would be responsible for that extra life. Not having a kid yourself doesn't mean that an extra kid magically gets born in the jungle to make up for it.

>>41933827

False analogy. Pointless diatribe.

Making clothes doesn't REQUIRE that someone be exploited.

Eating meat REQUIRES something to be exploited and killed, however 'humanely' you try and frame it..

>>41933899
What kind of """"""""""""meat""""""" is that?

>>41919855
fuck off richard and stop wasting dubs

>>41919838
In China they eat dogs too. Chinks are redpilled.

>>41933096
>Clogging your artheries makes you happy

Woah, this REALLY made me think.

>>41923376
Your physique is shittier than your baits.

>>41934208
I'm not him, but if you're going to throw that insult, you're going to have to show us your dick now. I mean physique.

>>41933072
you're fucking stupid, no it doesn't

>>41921071
Why can't meat eaters wear shirts??

>>41921561
Why can't vegans wear shirts?

>>41920029
>sensible refutation
>sensible refutation
>sensible refutation

>"Pot, kettle, etc."
my sides are gone

>>41919826
You can't disprove feelings

>>41923376
Are you Jared Leto?

>>41933960
I would eat my dog if it were life or death. If I raised it to be food one day as you do with farm animals, I would sell it to a slaughterhouse. pets are not the same as farm animals. let's look at horses as an example. they are both pets and farm animals. it's subjective. it changes from farmer to farmer. horse owners love their horses as a dog owner loves their dog. they are pets, it's not surprising. yet they sell their horses sometimes to be slaughtered and eaten. why do they do that? because it doesn't matter from the horse's point of view if it dies in the barn alone from old age or if it dies instantly in a slaughterhouse. any sane farmer would sell that horse for its meat for the fat paycheck they receive.


I haven't built a spaceship. doesn't mean I am not capable of acquiring the knowledge for it one day. animals can't, their brain capacity not alow it.

the reason we can't eat people with down syndrome is because it's physically harmful to us to eat that kind of meat. aborted fetuses are humans too. doesn't mean people don't abort them and use their stem cells to regrow their limbs or what not they can use stem cells to these days. if the baby is dead,m I don't blame parents for letting scientists take the stem cells. it's going to help someone if not everyone. not that I'd also understand if they want the child to be buried and left alone. itæs the parents choice.

>think animals have language
that's cute. you realise the only animals with the same kind of langue that humans are capable of having are chimps, and they can't even do that right. they can only learn signs and pictures like sign langue. there is no thing like cow langue. they say "muuuuh" like our ancestors would grunt when they wanted something. they communicate through body langue and a single sound. you can't tell a cow you're going to kill it one day in the future even if you'd communicate with them

>>41933960
animals don't think like human beings. they don't think about politics and math. they don't think about how they look and behave around their peers. (in some cases certain animals do) they don't think about what you and I think about. they are literally meat robots that are programmed to survive and pass on their genes. that's why humans, for example, get depressed when we don't get to have sex.it's also why most people seek to start a family. it's our instinct. some people noticed this and thought "fuck that" and worked their entire life to be rich and or famous. because they knew it's something only prehistoric humans needed to get to this very point in time. animals, on the other hand, is happy as long as that basic need is fulfilled. they don't have midlife crisis's where they thin "what the hell am I doing with my life, I just sit in this barn eating and fucking and chilling in the sun. I could be rich." they don't because they are carbon-based organic robots made to reproduce. their goal in life is to reproduce. all farm animals get to reproduce, so their needs are fulfilled. any normal farm animal that doesn't get tortured is probably happy. if not, it would not be because they lie in a ""cage""" and have sex with miss piggy. most farmers do a good job with their animals. just because you have seen a video where the animals suffer and some biased vegan nerd told you all animals suffer, doesn't mean it is like that. the majority of farms aren't like your dystopian fantasy. farms are different around the world. a normal farm in Mexico could look bizarre to a farmer in China. different countries have different laws and regulation on farming. "normal"! is actually very subjective. neither of us can say "that's normal" on any farm because we don't know how all farms are operated all over the world. I know how farms are run in my city, so I can say that no animals are treated cruelly in those farms. except for chickens in many chicken farms.

>>41934533

>all this backpedaling

"I would eat my dog if it were life or death."
It's not life or death and you still eat meat though.

"it doesn't matter from the horse's point of view"
Again, hypocrite. In its current state this is a baseless assertion.

"I haven't built a spaceship. doesn't mean I am not capable"
Again, so a quadriplegic with severe autism can be cannibalized np

"the reason we can't eat people with down syndrome is because it's physically harmful to us to eat that kind of meat."
LOL is that really the reason? Good lord are you the second coming of Destiny?

" if the baby is dead,m I don't blame parents for letting scientists take the stem cells."
False analogy. You don't kill and eat animal fetuses; that's not animal agriculture. The correct analogy would be killing a live baby for its stem cells, in which case you BTFO'd yourself.

">think animals have language
that's cute."
>missing(avoiding) the points this hard

>>41934625
and for those chicken farms, a lot of people are against that in general, so they buy chickens that don't suffer their entire life. they sell that right next to the cheap misused saltwater filled chicken in the store. it's very easy to choose the happy chicken over the saltwater fisted chicken. we learned to do choices like that in middle school. only poor people buy that shit anyways.

>>41934625

delusion:the post

>>41934637
What does your bitching have to do with fitness?

>>41934680

Why are you asking the guy that is responding to bullshit that isn't fitness related. Go to the source lad.

>>41934691
The source is the vegans making threads bitching and moaning about meat being mean. Over the last few weeks your autistic shrieking has lowered the tone. It's not fitness related and it only makes your religion less popular.

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>>41934234

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>>41934234
You mirin?

>>41934637
>not life or death
that's why I don't eat my fucking dog

>Again, hypocrite. In its current state, this is a baseless assertion.
not an argument. horses don't care and will never care because they can't grasp the same reality as us. their reality is to eat grass and survive. if you can't find a good argument against that it would be because it's right. stop being so ignorant.

>Again, so a quadriplegic with severe autism can be cannibalised np
I wouldn't eat them for the same reason as the down syndrome point, but I would fucking throw it out in the woods or something. I don't want a fucking vegetable consuming my fucking money it's whole short life. I was going to say miserable, but I really doubt it is going to be able to understand it's even living. much like a chicken.

>LOL is that really the reason? Good lord, are you the second coming of Destiny?
that's a good reason for it. we don't eat specific animals for the very same reason. also it immoral as downs syndrome people have the capability to understand life and what people are doing to it. if you enslave a guy with downs syndrome, they will feel trapped. enslaved horses that were forced to transport people didn't because they only did what felt natural. horses don't know if their free or not unless it's blatantly obvious. then I mean trapped in isolation obvious.

>False analogy. You don't kill and eat animal fetuses; that's not animal agriculture. The correct analogy would be killing a live baby for its stem cells, in which case you BTFO'd yourself.
you're right. you kill them inside the womb and rip their arms and legs off with a tong without any pain dampening medication. it's even more brutal than many slaughterhouses that crush the animals alive. those animals die instantly at least. that baby doesn't. they get decapitated and killed inside the womb. decapitation one body part at a time.

>>41934727
>>41934734

s-sorry, m'piss

>>41934637
>missing(avoiding) the points this hard
Didn't you get the point? the point is that animals can't communicate. you claimed that my argument was invalid because I can't communicate with a cow. wows can't communicate anymore with other cows than it can communicate with other animals. your argument about my argument is invalid. that's the point.

>>41934740
That's lord Janoy for you.

>>41934737
added point to the abortion thing. some women actually use abortion as a prevention system. they don't want a baby, so they kill that bitch. they don't care about that life so they kill it because they don't feel like making their partner wear a condom. or maybe they like the feeling of being creampie'd into. if that's wrong or not is up for discussion. I don't care. it's not my child. if it were, I'd kill the bitch for aborting my child.

anyways, in other words, some people use it similar as farmers use agriculture. they create life to end if for their own one-time pleasure.

>>41934737
>that's why I don't eat my fucking dog
Yet you eat other animals why?

>not an argument
Take a look in the mirror (and what statement of yours that was responding to)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophical_burden_of_proof

>>41934750
Your concept of communication is pretty narrow minded lol. Just admit that you argument is 'might is right'.

>>41934805
"anyways, in other words, some people use it similar as farmers use agriculture. they create life to end if for their own one-time pleasure."
And that makes it right..?

Anything past this point that is not fitness related is invalid, too bad mate :^)

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Riddle me this:

If we wouldn't use cows for milk or meat, why would we keep them? They are the largest CO2 producing animal in the world.

Cows would go extinct in a vegan world. You don't care about animals at all.

>>41934890
>If we wouldn't use cows for milk or meat, why would we keep them?
Why do we keep pandas?
> They are the largest CO2 producing animal in the world.
Not if fed grass, only if fed grains
>Cows would go extinct in a vegan world.
No
> You don't care about animals at all.
Wrong

>Le benevolent benefactor who does cows a service by bringing them to life to kill them

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>>41927502
#would

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>>41934942
So we'd have 2 cows in a zoo somewhere in China?

We'd be holocausting the cows you mong. There would be no point in having as many as we do now. Their numbers would be drastically reduced.

>>41934829
>Yet you eat other animals why?
I eat other animals because I have no emotional bond to them. from my point of view, they are primitive meat robots

>Take a look in the mirror (and what statement of yours that was responding to)
what?

>Your concept of communication is pretty narrow-minded lol. Just admit that your argument is 'might is right'.
my argument is based on science. scientists say that animals don't communicate the same way humans communicate. the reason we have evolved as a society the way we have is because of our incredibly advanced brains function that lets us communicate in an advanced way, relative to animals on earth that is. animals would have a society as well if the could communicate with each other, all though the quality of that society probably would be inferior to our own.

>"anyways, in other words, some people use it similar as farmers use agriculture. they create life to end if for their own one-time pleasure."
I think it's up to the parents to decide. I would not accept a woman doing this to my child, but that's because it's my child. I don't really care about some random peoples children. I think it's quite barbaric. I don't like barbarism, so in a way, I don't think it's right, but on the other hand, I don't really care that much about what some chick does to her pre-born fetus. I think I'd lose respect for a woman like that, but I wouldn't do anything else as long as I'm not involved in it.

>>41934890
I'm arguing against veganism but this was the most retarded shit I have ever read. how the fuck would cow go extinct? if a wolf would try to take a cow, a bull would kill it easily. there would be a lot of bulls to protecting its females with their horns attached to their gigantic bodies.the only natural enemy they'd have would be bears. there exist wild cows right now. ever seen a buffalo? same thing. only hunted by lions and shit.