I'm about to change my life forever but I'm deathly

>>41840581
Have some one else pin you and talk to you while they're doing it.

>>41840581
Yeah, aim for the vein

>>41840581

that's a large amount of oil for a noob.

Anyway just fucking do it, its not bad at all.

>>41840613

Oh and also, go in further than you think, you only want maybe 1/4 inch of the needle left showing.

Pinning subq by accident sucks.

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Not worth it.

You'll fall out of love with lifting and wanting super-tier gains eventually and it'll just be a thing you do on the side for health and staying in shape as you age.

Let's just say I'm from the future and know you more than you know yourself.

>>41840613
Test and tren. .75 of each.

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>>41840581
RIP in piss sweet prince.
F

>>41840771

>doing tren for a first cycle

/fit/.. everybody. Christ.

>>41840801
Im a natty cuck, so dont get me wrong....but why even wait to take tren? You may as well just do it from the start if youre getting off the natty train.

No point not doing it.

>treating your body like a chemistry lab with permanent affects

You are crazy

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>>41840581
See you on the other side, you have officially left humanity behind

Where are you pinning?

>>41840838
What a pussy

>>41840581
Tren is OTT for a first cylce, but fuck it, whatever. I was also going to ask about your AI, PCT, etc, but that's not what you asked.

As for pinning - firstly, well done. Way too many guys opt for orals and fuck their liver up, all because they're too pissy to use a needle.

Secondly, my 6 year old cousin injects insulin. If she can do it, then a grown man should have no issues. Stop being a faggot.

My first few times I didn't even feel it. Now I'm on week 5 of my cycle and I get the TINIEST sting when the needle breaks the skin (I'm told this didn't happen the first few times due to adrenalin) but that's it.

Inject deep, slow, and steady. Aspirate, make sure your shit is all sterile and clean.

You think pinning is bad, wait until you get an infection or hit a blood vessel. Both can easily be avoided.

DONT DO IT, DON'T STICK THE DEGENERCY IN YOU!!

>>41840830

Because you don't know what is causing any side effects you will get, and could end up taking the wrong measures to counteract it. causing more problems.

Don't let the "itll be fine" justifications of a few amateur roiders on /fraud/ let you think its a good idea to jump straight onto one of the harshest compounds there is.

I mean really its your choice, and you will probably just use whatever logic you can to justify yourself when you get some shitty side effects, so do what you want.

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>>41840838
>treating your body like a chemistry lab with permanent affects

you mean like people who eat nothing but pic related?

>>41840973
What's a more mild compound to start with then?

>>41840984

False equivalency my friend.

>>41840995
pure test. then add compounds over the next cycles.

>>41840995
Horse meat

don't inject it
start with test only
save vial of tren for future, they last for ever

>>41840581
>'m about to change my life forever

Heh. Yep. Yep you are.

Just not in the way you're hoping for.

>>41841067
explain?

Bro idk what it is but needles scare me too. Line they're sharp and they cause pain idk man it's spooky

>that fatass hand
Don't you have to already be sort of good at lifting before shooting up?

>>41840995

Just testosterone.
You get amazing results from test alone for a first cycle.

>>41840581
How much do you weigh/fat %?

>>41840995
Dude, did you even do even research before deciding to pin?
What about PCT? Some estrogen suppressors if you experience side effects mid cycle?

>>41840581
Fucking /fraud/

>>41840996
>caffeine, sugar, nicotine, alcohol, and weed are all acceptable addictions but low dose AAS is poison
You motherfuckers are dumb. OP, you're a dumbass too for taking tren on your first cycle. Switch that shit out for deca.

>>41841129
im not op

>>41840995
>>41841129
Also, if you do experience sides, you won't know if it's the tren or the test doing it

>>41841178

Again, false equivalency. Not relevant to anything Nobody told OP to start using the things you listed in place of AAS.
And your point has no bearing on how dangerous or safe OP's choices regarding AAS are.

Your coping strategy with your life choice is very juvenile.

>don't pump yourself up with steroids
>WHY DONT YOU TELL PEOPLE WHO EAT CANDY BARS TO STOP AS WELL
wat

>>41841193
Oh, fair enough

>>41841225
I all but guarantee that the people who rail against roids, are mostly ones who know nothing about cycles. They blow the impact of a low dose cycle way out of proportions

>>41841201
The point is that everything we do has positive and negative aspects. AAS is easy to demonize, especially when some DYEL makes a post like this. But anybody who has never done a cycle isn't qualified to give him advice.

>>41841201
>Your coping strategy with your life choice is very juvenile.
Why would he need a coping strategy?
What do you even know about roids?

>>41841327
Only what my out of shape female Doctor and the Jew media tell me.

random question for roidfags. If I have gyno naturally will test just make it even worse? Is there a way to avoid that?

>>41841327

I cruise on test. I have done a few blasts in the past, but don't have any plans to in the near future as I don't want to get any bigger. I just like the other benefits that a slightly higher than normal test level brings.

I don't need bad ways justifying it like he. I don't even give a shit to justify it, I do it because I like it.

>>41841201
>Again, false equivalency.
You keep saying this but you don't actually provide evidence to back it up.

>>41841361
How much do you take? I too want slightly elevated levels.

>>41840995
A friend of mine gain 10 kg or 22 pounds with test e 250 mg 2x a week for 10 weeks.
He was really consistent with his diet and protein intake. He lost 1.5 kg or 3.3 pound after PCT and began gaining muscle 3-4 month after PCT. He haven't taken it since (3 years ago) and he still got the mass from the cycle + more from natural.
You don't need that much if you have your diet straight. I've seen people take test and tren without gaining because they were partying every week a thought that as long as you train and inject, muscle will grow no matter.

>>41840581
Look at the little bird outside the window.

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>>41840581
Here's what I don't get:
>a woman decides she wants to be a man
>doctors legally give her test
>society applauds her for being so brave

>a man decides he wants to be manlier
>has to illegally obtain test
>society says he has a problem and should seek help

Double standards much?

>>41841374
wat
How do I need evidence to say that people eating junk food and people taking steroids are not the same thing?

>>41841400
200mg test-e per week.
I'm aware its a relatively high cruise dose, I'm aware of the potential side effects.

>>41841357
Gyno is from estrogen, progesterone and prolactin. Take some formestane before you run your test cycle.

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Don't inject yourself with the testosterone jew!

>>41841437
Simply saying "false equivalence" doesn't invalidate a an opponents statement you dumbfuck.
Demonstrate the false equivalence with a counter example.

>>41840864
Break on through

>>41840951
I'm using a erase pro post. And, I'm using b6 to control progesterine. If I get sides I'll get my pusher to get me something stronger but using B6 for now.

Just did the pin. Didn't hurt at all. Using a clean needle every time and swabbing my ass with alcohol to avoid infections and shit.

>>41840581
Just don't think about it and do it.

>>41841436
Yeah, and all the "health concerns". Nobody ever died from AAS. A little acne or gyno isn't the end of the fucking world.

>>41841494

lad, the point is that people who eat shit like the guy posted, is not relevant to AAS use. Bye.

>>41840654
>and it'll just be a thing you do on the side for health and staying in shape as you age

That's not a bad thing. I've gotten my best results just by changing to that mentality.

>>41841437
It is the same thing. A little bit is fine, blasting everyday will fuck you up but still take a long time to kill you.

>>41841518
But it is for all the reason explained
>>41841178
>>41840984
"Bye"

>>treating your body like a chemistry lab with permanent affects

So this was originally posted to claim that steroid use is risky because you're experimenting with your bodily chemistry when using steroids.

Then someone states that some people expose their body to similar experimentation when overeating things like candy, soda, etc.

The immediate implication (imo) is that overeating candy/soda/etc is as jeopardizing to your body's health/chemistry as steroid use.

By making a comparison between the dangers of steroids and candy, the severity of risks associated with steroids seems lessened because it carries the same risks as something as benign as candy (which are only a risk to people who "abuse" candy/soda/etc).

Making this comparison doesn't mean the side effects of AAS are not serious in and of themselves.

>t. autist

>>41841508
Went in like a knife through butter. Pinned slow to avoid cough.

>>41841606
That's true. However, I think someone with a clean diet who does a cycle every now and then will be healthier and live longer than someone who has a bad diet.

will testosterone injections help with face gains?

>>41841606
Sugar is way worse for you than 400mg of AAS a week. Plus if you stop that amount of juice, there's no real issues. People who eat candy regularly are going to have to work to reverse its effects and deal with withdrawal.

>>41841649
Obviously

>>41840801
>b-but rich piana does it

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How do you get HCG without a prescription?

>>41841704

Most roid sites sell it.
Though catching them with it in stock is hard because every fucking roider and his dad want it.

>>41841724
I have legal test, I don't use roid sites..

>>41841517

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andreas_Münzer

>>41841732

Well then you can't get hcg without a presctiption...

>>41841436
Not being ok with who you are is a problem.

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>>41840581
age?
lifts?
bf?
years of lifing?
whats ur cycle?

>>41841645
What about someone who has a clean diet/lifestyle and doesn't use AAS?

>>41841507
You'll have to use Clomid or Nolvadex for pct

>>41841929
29
Bench 185. Dead 225 squat 285

19

6 years of lifting. Haven't for the 8 months though because of an injury.

Tren and test .75 every 2 days. With B6 for progesterone control and erase pro.

Also taking animal packs to keep my liver clean.

>tren in first cycle
Oh boy, I hope you're ready to not sleep.

I know some of you guys will say why aren't you taking this or that.

I'm not taking high doses of This shit and I've done more research than most.

My buddies all said I needed to stop being a pussy and shoot up but I told them no. I need to research more.

>>41842500

Is this where the aggression comes from?

>>41842472
Lmao you don't need roids, you need to actually try when lifting.

>>41842544
K thx.

>>41842472
Is this fucking bait?
>Lifts suck
>Hasn't """""lifted""""" in 8 months
>starts roids

Are you actually legally retarted?

>>41841649
Fuck no

>>41842472

are those in kg? if so mirin. Just wondering for any frauders lurking is it really that dangerous taking roids at around age 20? I really want to do a test only cycle but everyone says if you do it young youll die when you are 30 and your dick will fall off

>>41840581

All roiders deserve an early grave.
Your insecure levels of masculinity are unparalleled.
Even gay and bi men who have masc issues aren't this bad.

>>41842656
no u

>>41842656
It's my body, I'll do what I want with it.

Why would you start the cycle now if you haven't even lifted in 8 months.

I don't care if you lifted for 6 years before that, not lifting for 8 months your body would be in an untrained state by now.

At least give it 6-12 months of getting back into it so your body can adjust again in terms of connective tissue and joint strength, which would have all but disappeared by now after not lifting for 8 months.

You're actually going to dramatically increase your chances of getting injured if you get on gear in an untrained state. Your gains will shoot way past what your joints and connective tissue can handle.

>>41842613
No. Lbs. I've never lifted super heavy and have always had a fit appearance.

I know some people think my lifts are weak but go to the gym and look at the big dudes. They lift light and the little dudes lift heavy.

You'd think it would be the other way around but it isn't because the big guys are there for the pump, not the strength.

>>41842656
the question is

how and why is this one of your concerns?
youre obviously affected by it judging by your harsh reaction

Steroids are fucking awesome, but starting with tren is really stupid.

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>>41842842
youve been lifting for 6 years and those are your stats? Dude... you're an utter failure. Im not even trolling, not even shitposting, but seriously bro youre a sad sack of shit turning to gear when you're lifts are that pathetic. Hope youre AAS abuse spirals out of control and you die an early death desu

>>41840654
I'm at this stage now tbqh. Though I haven't been lifting seriously for a couple months now, finals and end of year stuff then fasting all month inb4 sand nigger.

I'm looking forward to starting a new program next week though lifting has definitely taken a backseat to other things I value much more in life, such as traveling, social gains and mental gains.

>>41842472
How are your lifts so low after 6 years?
Also post body pic please

>>41842926
Don't you worry. I'll keep you updated on how my cycle is going.

My diet is clean. All macros are accounted for. Taking gear.

Everyone that tells me not to do this just embolden me.

>>41840654
What's the issue with lifting for health and ageing? You can still test 1rm and similar stuff.

>>41841507
I don't think you've read up on this at all.

You need somethlng like Novladex (tamoxifen) for PCT. On cycle you need need an AI like Arimidex (Anastrozole) to control E2 sides. Once you get gyno, it's too late. Prevention is normally better than cure, but in this case, there is no cure, so prevention is your only option.

Did you use the same needle to draw and inject? Did you swab the vials first too? Did you aspirate?

What brand is your gear? Lab reports? How long is your cycle? Calories and macros during cycle? Workout plan?

If you can't answer any of these questions instantly, you're going to need to find the answers quickly.

Ignore the idiot brainwashed Yanks who think steroids are lethally dangerous, but by the same token, if you don't know what you're doing, you will become one of "those morons" who give steroid users a bad name.

>>41841649
Depends what you mean. My face was gaunt as fuck. Really let my appearance down, not helped by my Auschwitz-tier body.

Gear has really made me fill out - I actually look "normal" now. Friends and family have noticed and been visibly impressed. Only on week 6 next week, but it's the best decision I've ever made.

They won't alter your bone structure obviously. I'd maybe learn a bit about what steroids do....

>>41841732
If you live in a developed nation, steroids are legal anyway.

>>41841850
> potassium-sparing diuretics

Learn what steroids are you fucking retard.

>>41842656
Jealous NEET detected.

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>>41843043
Here's a pic currently. Fit but not amazing.

I'm one of the guys in the gym that is there everyday but never really got big. I did more cardio than I should have and now my goals have changed.

>>41843202
Gonna be honest here famalam it looks like you can still get some noob gains just by getting your diet in check
You don't have a body that says that you've been working out for 6 years
But if you do roids at the end of the day it's your body and your decision i wish you all the best

>>41843202
Whole thread is bait confirmed. There is no way somebody can be this stupid and delusional.

>>41843202
Based on your body alone (and ignoring all the other shit you've got wrong) you'd respond very well to a basic cycle.

Seriously. Google "first steroid cycle" and read some of the results. You're looking at a basic Test E cycle, 15 weeks, 500-600mg p/w. Simple. You'll go VERY far.

But learn your shit first. Jesus dude.

>>41843273
>Confirmed for having never met or interacted with the human race in general.

>>41843201
Lots of questions there. But I can answer them all.

So the AI I'm using is Erase pro though. It's the only thing I'm taking that people really seem to go bonkers over.

The pusher seriously told me this. Yeah... just take this dosage with milk thistle everyday.

That was his fucking advice. Didn't offer an AI. didn't talk about sides. Nothing.

I went out and read about it after he got me the juice. He sometimes goes months between bein able to get it so I pulled the trigger before the research.

Got it, then I did my homework.

Apparently at the doses I'm taking most of the sides are negligible but regardless I read up on a few things and one thing that seems to be common word of mouth is that at low doses erase pro is an acceptable AI and for progesterone B6 at 300mg a day will suffice for a 6 week cycle.

If I'm way off base here please tell me but from what I can tell gear is 90% trial and error and 10% science.

>>41843322
Actually, scratch that about Googling.

Specifically read this -

https://bodymaxing.com/2016/09/14/first-steroid-cycle/

THE most comprehensive and easy to follow guide to a first cycle. ANYONE with any experience of gear will say pretty much exactly what this dude is saying.

>>41843325
well except if you do one small mistake in your "trial and error", you will have permanent cow tits.

Good luck, m8y

>>41843350
I feel ya. I've had buddies do this exact cycle on and off for years just taking milk thistle. No AIs. No bitch tits.

I'm doing more than they did to combat this shit.

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>>41840581

>>41843325
Erase Pro (which I had to search as I've never heard of it) is NOT an AI.

Read what an AI is.

Some good news is that an actual pharma-grade AI is much cheaper than that snake oil.

You've also not answered most of my questions.

The big one is the brand. Buying shit of some random guy is normally a sure-fire way for things to go wrong.

At worst, it'll be shitty gear that could give you an infection. Ignore all the shit about how fast to inject, the only thing that gives you an infection is dirty needles or dirty gear.

At best, it could just be bunk. Underdosed crap that will do nothing.

Do yourself a favour, and look at a steroid aggregate site. Read some forums, find out what labs are decent and what aren't. Get a decent online source and you'll not only avoid getting some utter garbage, you'll probably also save money too.

Also, am I right in thinking from that post you're doing a SIX WEEK cycle?!?!

Even if you're trolling and this is bait (if so, top effort) then I hope others considering gear read this.

>>41843395
Confirmed jelly natty.

>>41843413
Not fake though.

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>>41843202
makes sense, youll be one of those retards that ends up with a steroid abuse problem and look like utter shit despite taking a massive concoction of drugs, just like that one fag that posted on here daily saying he was the king of /fit/. You look like shit for 6 years of lifting, matter fact you would look like shit for lifting only for one year. It amazes me how delusional and sad your life is already and how much more sad its going to be when you need to pin to get mediocre gains. Have fun fucking your body up though friendo, because running tren on a first cycle is a recipe for disaster. Like previously was said, hope you die an early death.

>>41843377
You're right, despite what I just said in >>41843409 you might not need an AI.

I for example started out on the recommended dose of Adex at .5mg per day. Quickly crashed my E2, so just reduced the dose.

Now even .5mg e3d is a little much.

There's a good chance you won't get sides at all, but it's wise not to risk it. After all, if your source takes several days to deliver your AI if sides do occur, you'll be fucked in the meantime.

>>41843202

If this isn't bait you must have been doing a shitty routine over the last 6 years. Have you at least found a better one for when you use steroids?

>>41840951
>not understanding the very basic chemistry involved in roids

Pinned substances also go through your liver you fucking retard

>>41843446
I asked him what routine he was planning, and he conveniently didn't answer.

>>41843432
While I agree that tren isn't the best idea for a first cycle, as I've previously said, are you able to explain why? I thought not....

>>41841658
>sugar is worse than black market steroids

delusion

>>41841436
are you me?

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>>41843202
What this is you? It looks like you have a lot of room for natural gains, change routines, intensity, mindset, "visualize."
Don't bitch out so soon by taking roids,
Heck, don't EVER take roids.

>>41843469
Well I'm not going to go into huge detail about it. I go to the gym I throw some weights around.

I have logs that I keep in my notebook.

Typical work out takes about two hours of lifting heavy shit the whole time.

>>41843052
please don't keep us updated

>>41843462
As the guy you're responding to, and as someone doing their first Test E cycle at the minute, I'd be VERY grateful if you could link me to evidence that injectable steroids are hepatotoxic. Everything I've read so far suggests they aren't.

Seriously, unless you're a fucking retarded American loser and you're simply wrong (in which case you'll just conveniently not reply again), it is very important for me to know this.

>>41843469
because why the fuck would you start pinning with literally the harshest compound you can put into your body? He has no idea how his body is going to respond to the test let alone the tren. I cant believe anyone would honestly think its okay to start a first cycle with tren. Its so obvious OP hasnt done the proper research and is doing this shit with very minimal knowledge on how to do it. But hey, its no my body so i dont give a fuck OP you do what you want. Listen to all these retards from fraud, what could possibly go wrong right? Fucking degenerates , all of you are

>>41843513
forgot 2 mention, get ur diet & rest on point, if u haven't.

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>>41843514

Here's the honest to God truth why I am doing it. I have a short timeframe to get exactly where I want to get. I'm taking a trip the lifetime on a 12 day cruise that my buddy won recently.

We both are doing this cycle together so we can be ripped like a motherfucker for this trip.

I completely understand the risks involved.

>>41843492
Well firstly, excessive sugar consumption is WAY more damaging than steroid use.

Not the guy you're replying to, but I accept that there needs to be more studies on the effects of steroid use in the long term.

However, MILLIONS of people are obese, become seriously ill, and even die as a result of excessive sugar consumption each year.

Despite it being mentioned and asked several times in this thread (and similar threads being made several times a day) no one has yet provided evidence of anyone dying or even becoming seriously ill from using steroids.

So while I get what you mean and yes it seems logical to say "steroids are worse than sugar" (hence why you sneakily popped the term "black market" in to bias your point, which I admire) there's plenty of evidence to suggest this is wrong.

It's an interesting thought though isn't it?

>>41843539
I agree. I'm the guy writing long replies trying to educate him on how to do this properly and posting links for him to read.

But my question was more just my scientific interest - what actual evidence/reason is there to not do tren on a first cycle?

I mean, I wouldn't and didn't, and most likely won't be using it for my second or even third. But I couldn't tell you concrete reasons why.

>>41843568
Congrats for being honest. Most people don't understand or accept that using roids as a shortcut is fine. Why not? People say "you're taking a shortcut" like it's a BAD thing.

After all, would you swim across the Atlantic or just get a plane?

But I still note you've not answered ANY of the pertinent questions that have been asked of you, you're clearly not willing to even learn, and you DON'T understand the risks.

You're not even reading the replies to your thread.

You didn't answer if you're actually suggesting a six week cycle, so I suspect your silence means you are.

This will do very little for you to be honest. You'll get shut down but make few gains. Not exactly brilliant right?

I take you'll still be on cycle when you go on this cruise right?

>>41843574
Sugar is not bad for you, excessive consumption is. Steroids are objectively harmful to your organs, even if use is not excessive. That's the difference.

Also, obesity is not caused by sugar alone.

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>>41843592
what are you waiting for, a scientific study on why tren shouldnt be ran first cycle? Its just common knowledge in the world of steroids that tren should never be ran first cycle. Can you honestly tell me why OP's twinky self should even be taking roids in the first place? He says hes been lifting for 6 years and doesnt even put up stats worthy of lifting for one year, let alone fucking 6??? Its obvious OP doesnt even have an elementary knowledge of diet and training, or the self discipline that comes with lifting. He looks like utter shit and is only going to fuck his body up loading himself with chemicals to "get ripped" for his cruise him and his gay lover want to look good for. Hes doing it for all the wrong reasons and is going about it in all the wrong ways. I dont even know why Im trying to help because i love watching these idiots fuck themselves up out of pure stupidity and vanity. Go fuck yourself if you are reading this OP

>>41843592
I do appreciate it, I'm going to email that supplier in the link you provided and see if I can get my hands on a proper AI.

>>41843662
How are steroids objectively harmful to your organs? Again, serious question.

What harm does testosterone cause?

I agree, that yes, excessive sugar consumption is the problem, not sugar alone, and yes, it's normally just that fatties eat too much in general, but I'm just trying to make a point.

No one has died from steroid use, plenty of people have died from eating too much.

>>41843670
No, not a study, just some reasons, even anecdotal.

Like I say, OP clearly doesn't have a clue, but I think he could still make use of gear.

I was skinnier than him when I started and some of my big lifts have doubled and I've put on over a fucking STONE in five weeks, no fat either. I mean, you don't have to be "near your natural limit" to start gear, that's a myth.

Yes, you need to know your shit, but only so you don't fuck yourself up.

For example, it doesn't matter if you can only deadlift 40kg, what matters is that you can do so with very good form.

Why? Because steroids cause explosive strength gains, and if you're lifting with shitty form, you'll end up snapping something or even popping a disc in your back. All the steroids in the world won't fix that.

>>41841129
>mid cycle
That's exactly why you should do a test cycle first, OP.
>>41840771
You don't know if you'll get estrogen problems with test, let alont progesteron problems with tren, and chances are, if you are likely for the former, you are likely for the latter.
Some people have none, most have some, some have troublesome problems, and you don't know which one you are yet. IMO, feminization problems are the least of your concerns, just use cabergoline and tamoxifen. It's the masculinization problems which could be the real issue.

>>41843725
You STILL aren't answering the questions though.

What brand is it?

If it wasn't for the fact steroids calm you down (contrary to the "roid rage" myth) I'd really be losing my shit with this retard now.

>>41843649
Cruise is in sept.

You're right I can't answer all your questions. I don't know what lab it came from but I can say this.

I can say of all the reading I've done the things you've posted have been the most informative.

>>41843756
I got the gear from a friend of a friend.

I'd tried to find the stuff online but no luck. That's why I went through a friend to find it. I told my buddy that I wanted the stuff and he said don't worry I know a guy I'll get you some. That's the extent of what I know about the product I got.

I do know this though, the guy has been selling it to my buddies for the last five years. And they seem to have good results.

>>41843737
Plenty of people have died from complications due to steroid use, Zyzz being one of them. AAS's put stress on your liver, kidneys, and heart, I don't really think that's even arguable. It's a fact. Same thing with people saying "No one has died from smoking marijuana." Maybe so, but plenty of people have been injured and killed from being impaired while high.

TRT is a well studied, generally low risk medical treatment. But OP isn't doing that, he's self injecting illegally made steroids having had no prior chemistry or medical certification. Most doctors are even leery of prescribing TRT to men with a high risk of prostate cancer, because some studies have shown a positive correlation between the two.

OP is not at his natty limit (if this thread is even real), and he's lack of gains are due to shitty programming.

>>41840581
what a fucking idiot, you are boy
f

>>41841517
>nobody ever died from AAS
Are you actually retarded? Plenty of people have, either from not knowing how to handle heart/liver problems or don't know how to handle PCT. There's a safe way to use them, yes, but that doesn't mean they are remotely as safe as you state.

ffs you people.

>>41843863
Zyzz didn't die from steroid use. Try again.

Also, steroids don't impair you like weed does.

If he gets gear from a reputable lab, even if it is a UGL, it's no different from the stuff a doctor will prescribe.

Who said you need to be at your natty limit? He's literally admitted to roiding to take a shortcut.

>>41844048
Name one. Cite a source.

No one has denied that abuse, particularly of orals, can be dangerous. But no one has come up with any proof even vague.

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>>41843202
>WoW tattoo
This has to be bait.

>>41843863
Yeah bro it was the test that did him in, not the clen (which can cause cardiac necrosis) combined with cocaine (which is also bad for your cardiac system), the joy of a hung ladyboy, dnp, and a sauna all on top off a congenital heart defect.
It was the test that did it definitely.

>>41840581
just push the needle slowly in.
I've been pinning for years and the best way I've found is to basically touch the needle to your skin, wait until the pain from that stops, then push a little a wait for that pain to stop, repeat.
takes me like 15 seconds to get the needle in and it's the most bearable way I've found.
also prevents you from just ramming right into a nerve at full speed

>>41842965
How about you stop being a sand nigger?

>>41843462

He didn't say that injectables don't go through the liver. He said that orals are often more harsh on the liver, which is completely true. Stop trying to find fault just to have something to say.

>>41843520

A lot of injectable roids are fairly easy on the liver, but some aren't. Tren, for instance, is a hepatotoxic injectable. I'm on right now, and my AST and ALT are elevated. If you're just running Test E, you should be fine.

guarantee 2 people tops in this thread have actually pinned before, rest bunch of larpers

>>41840830
Jesus Christ, what a dumbfuck you are.

>>41844929
He's right you know? No point not doing it.

>>41844908
I can say whatever I want, hitler

>>41844197
Steroids don't impair you how? What is roid rage?

>>41844204
The burden of proof does not rely on us. There's a reason why steroids are brought up in the same health education classes that teach students about illegal drugs. Because they are illegal drugs that when used in the wrong manner do harm to your body. Requiring us to come up with anecdotal evidence is useless when your initial frame of sugar vs. steroids is preposterous to begin with.

>>41845261
Shut up OP, you're fucking retarded. You can't even cheat right.

>>41841507
>erase pro
Read the ingredients, it absolutelly WILL NOT combat estrogenic side effects. It may increase libido, which tricks plenty of people into believing it increases testosterone/decreases estrogens, but it's what many people would call a "scam".

>>41844197
Zyzz died from clen, which was aggravated by the steroids. What? Are you actually going to say anabolic steroids won't lead to cardiac hyperthrophy? Or that the increase in cholesterol levels is also a moot point when it comes to heart attacks?

If we're gonna use your idiotic logic, diabetes isn't real because I ate a watermelon yesterday, and my sugar levels are normal today.

>>41845316
>I can say whatever I want, hitler
You can, but that doesn't mean you're not wrong. That reply is basically you admitting you're wrong and have nothing to come back with.

>What is roid rage?
A myth, that has been conclusively disproven. Correlation does not equal causation. Look it up. You also conveniently ignored my point about Zyzz. It takes a man to admit he's wrong though, so I expect nothing more.

>The burden of proof does not rely on us.
I shouldn't have bothered typing this reply before reading this. You don't even understand one of the most basic human concepts.

And steroids aren't illegal in developed nations, and are illegal in the US despite pretty much every medical expert who was consulted stating a ban made no scientific sense.

My suggestion of anecdotal evidence was me throwing you a bone btw. I realised you were unable to come up with any scientific proof, so I at least gave you the chance to provide a spurious citation. You didn't.

>>41845681
>hormonal imbalances and effects on libido as a result of steroid use don't exist

this thread is just defensive justification and b8 at this point

>>41845459
Zyzz is often cited as dying from an undiagnosed heart defect. He didn't.

He died from a DIAGNOSED heart defect that he ignored. He did shit loads of weight loss drugs (I think DNP, which is dangerous in itself and WAY more toxic than Clen), coke, in a sauna, in Thailand, in the height of summer. He also wasn't even on cycle when he died.

I admire the bloke and what he achieved, but he was a fucking idiot who basically shot himself in the face.

Increased LDL/HDL levels can occur with heavy steroid use, but this is easily picked up and mitigated. I've covered this already, but you chose to ignore it. Again, convenient.

And finally, yes steroids cause LVH. But it's Athletic LVH, which is benign and is regularly seen in people who've never touched gear and never will.

As I always say, I'm willing to throw all my gear in the bin, and spend all my money travelling around trying to educate people that steroids are dangerous in any situation, if I see evidence this is the case. Yet despite actively looking for it (I'm a hypochondriac who is terrified anything will kill me) I can't find anything. Nothing.

>>41845707
You've quoted the wrong post there.

OR - you're changing the subject to avoid the fact you can't admit you're wrong.

Why? We're being civil here aren't we? Isn't this interesting to you? Why are you continuing if it isn't?

>>41840581
My advice is that you should do a small cycle of test before what you're doing if you're really sure you want to go down this road. My other advice is to always aspirate.

>>41845729
You said it yourself right in this post, that heavy steroid use causes LDL/HDL. Ignoring everything else, ignoring kidney and liver function, raising your cholesterol is an objectively negative side effect of steroids.

>>41840581
Congrats, you're a fag now.

>>41845729
increased HDL levels is a good thing though

>>41845740
>you said roid rage is a myth
>hormonal changes as a result of steroid use is not a myth

what are you talking about man

>>41845757
Yes, with heavy use. And it's easily mitigated if you are aware of it.

No one said steroids don't cause side effects, of course they fucking do. We're just saying they aren't dangerous unless you're a total moron with a good dose of bad luck thrown in.

>>41845772
If you're the same person (again) you are one of the stupidest people I've ever seen on /fit/, and THAT'S saying something.

Read that greentext again, and see if you can pick up your error.

>>41840581
>>41840771
Idiot.

>>41845775
>"How are steroids objectively harmful to your organs? Again, serious question."

This is the question I was answering. Steroids are objectively harmful to your organs. Being able to treat that is besides the point, because you're treating a side effect that you normally wouldn't have if you were not taking AAS.

And again this is ignoring other hormonal changes in your body that can result in gyno, acne, hair loss, and impotence.

>>41845814
>And again this is ignoring other hormonal changes in your body that can result in gyno, acne, hair loss, and impotence.
That's why you take AI though

>>41841080
Not him, but it sounds that you believe that the 'only' thing you need to have a better life is a muscular body. So, you will take dangerous drugs without the supervision of a physician and ruin your body in the process in lieu of making hard, actual lifestyle changes to turn your life around.

We've all been there though.

>>41846334
The original disagreement was whether or not steroids were harmful to your body, then it morphed into a retarded argument about whether sugar or steroids are worse for you.

You can take an AI and liver support, but those are still treating negative side effects that most men normally wouldn't have. Steroids are harmful to your body. Being able to mitigate the harm to your body is another discussion, even if it is able to be done.

I'm also sageing cause this thread needs to die

>>41846461
No, I said that sugar causes a large number of deaths, making the analogy that just because something is dangerous doesn't mean it should be banned. I also said that on balance, you could therefore say that sugar is more dangerous than steroids, in an attempt to get people to show proof steroids are dangerous because I'm on them and paranoid I've missed some study about them.

Then some moron came along making baseless arguments without being able to back them up, getting basic human concepts confused in the process, and conveniently changing the subject/not answering obvious questions when pressed on anything.

I'm satisfied that while steroid use has its dangers, they're nothing to worry about. Certainly not with all the other much more dangerous stuff that we do every day.

>>41846426
Yeah, OP is clearly totally misguided here.

That said, a decent body is a huge boost in life, so you might as well get one as efficiently and safely as possible

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Poor OP getting pummeled. Misguided or not, if you're still reading this I hope you make it anon.

>>41841104
exactly what i was thinking

PUT SYRINGE ON HEAD

>>41841048
That really depends if he used the same draw needle on both vials.

If he did then he contaminated the second vial .

Either way I believe the most lax guidelines say to toss any vial that has been opened for 8 weeks.

You really are playing with your life and you are seeking advice is this pit of uselessness.

>>41841357

Not a roidfag, but yes if your body is already predisposed to create estrogen out of your testosterone that is only going to get worst.

Unless you take an AI, but if your get the doasge wrong your pecker wont work because that needs a certain amount of estrogen.

Look dont fuck with your hormones.

>>41848417
Jesus. Talk about living in a sterile environment. I've had vials left for 4 years that I've drawn a couple of ml out of that didn't infect me and worked just like the day it was brewed.

Fuck some of you cunts are painful.

>>41842472
>Dead 225
>6 Years

what the FUCK have you been doing in the gym for 6 years

>>41848513

I don't think most people here could lift 4 plate

>>41840838

effects*

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>>41848572
oh boy

>>41848513
You know what most people can do? Deadlift 225 the first time they try deadlifting

>>41848572
And you would be colossally wrong
I mean there are beginners here and they probably can't pull 405 but sure as shit everyone who has been lifting for more than 3 years (being extremely generous,most people get to it in like 1 year and a half) can pull that.

Seriously dude, i'm super pro roids but you're gonna waste your cycle on gains you could have gotten naturally.

Should have just pinned later on.

>>41848572

>1.5 years
>500 lbs

You're pathetic, OP. Why bother pinning when you're too untrained to know how to grow natty? All you're going to accomplish is getting big then losing it all post-cycle. If you can't keep your gains now, you sure as fuck won't be able to keep them without cruising year long, and if you do that, you'll be pinning for the rest of your life due to your balls eventually permanently shutting down natural test production.

If you're too afraid to pin yet this undertrained, your obviously making a huge mistake that you didn't properly research.

This is a troll thread

nice job op

>>41840771
tren? mirin, go for it lad

Why are people mad at op for taking gear.

Even if he is a dyel what's the point wasting time lifting natty if you plan to go on gear.

Don't do heroin OP

>>41850141
How much of your gains do you lose after coming off gear?

Research I've read indicates that provided you still train and eat properly, you lose no lean mass and at MOST a couple of percent in water weight, and that's only if you were prone to retention anyway.

I see you have seen some research which suggests otherwise, so would be happy if you could link to it.

>>41850998
While it's true that you might as well go on gear if you plan to anyway, there are certain things you need to know about safe use of steroids, safe lifting, and diet, knowledge which OP clearly doesn't have.

While he's unlikely to cause himself any major harm (though he's the sort of idiot who becomes a statistic and gives gear a bad name) he's mainly likely to get a very poor return on his efforts.

Efficiency is key in anything in life, and OP is going about a very efficient supplement (steroids in general) in an extremely inefficient way.

It's actually quite admirable how much of a mess he's making of this.

this has to be a troll...if youre legit OP ditch the gear and go on a proper bulk and training routine you still have plenty of noob size gains to be made

However if your mind is made up on pinning just use test to start off with. I havent read the entire thread but do you have your PCT all sorted? Are you getting before/during and after blood tests to monitor levels?

>>41850111
>mfw i used to be able to diddy 180kg with fucked knees, finally got a double knee operation to get them fixed. and im back up to 170kg after a year of basically no lower body training

we're all gonna make it brahs

>>41851104
He is unwilling/unable to answer any of the obvious questions.

>>41846857
thanks man.... im gonna make my dreams come true.

>>41850111
as my pusher says, thats just your opinion.

>>41851104
not a troll.... pic was a real needle with real olive oil in it.

jk jk.... totally was test and tren.

>>41840581
>Listen to some music

>Inject into the glutes first time since in my opinion it's much easier/less feeling

>Warm the oil in the vial first

>Slide needle in slow, to make sure you don't hit a nerve (which is just kinda uncomfortable is all)

>get a friend to give you a brojob beforehand for maximum relaxation (compulsory)

>>41848461

When one injects substances into there body they best have a sterile environment to lower the chances of complications.

Maybe you will stay lucky and continue to beat the odds.

Then again most of the bone heads on here do not use pharmaceutical human grade let alone animal grade. They have no idea what they are injecting.

What do you guys think about the story of a friend of mine-

I've known him since we were 12. He did his first cycle at 17. Just test. Another cycle of test at 18. Test and deca at 19. Then age 20 he did a huge blast of test and tren for 6 months. Age 22, another cycle of test.

I dont think he ever completed a full PCT. Did some clomid and nolva here and there.

Anybody with a bit of knowledge would say the guy should be fucked up. The thing is I've never seen him skip a beat. We are now 24, lifting is an occasional hobby, steroids a distant memory.

To this day, the guy carries a nicely muscled physique, has a roster of girls he goes through and is an all round confident and happy person.

How can it be that he is not suffering extreme low T? Are some people just gods at recovery?

>>41842472
This has to be fake. If true, just see a doctor about your extreme low test.

>>41851993
i will be like him... no sides, just gains.

>>41853197
been reading through this all, are you trolling us?

>>41840771
lol good choice :^}

>>41842472
If this is not in KG this is b8

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>>41848572
>225 is 4 pl8
Nigga it's how many plates per side, 225 is 2 pl8s ya dingus, 2/10 b8 responded

>>41843776
>sept

Great plan you have the cruse in 8 to 12 weeks. The 1/2 of T is ~8 weeks. So you will just be settling into your new hormone profile when you stop.

I don't care what you do, but your plan is short sighted and frankly given the risks especially when you have not even come close to be near the natty limit.

I am curious did you get a full hormone spectrum done before so that you at least have an idea what is normal for you. That way you have at least an idea what you have done to yourself when you get tested later.

I don't think you have given this 1/2 the though you should have.

>>41853710
>2/10
>Responded
That's a 10/10 famalamadingdong

>>41840581
I have to do this to myself every week to treat inflammatory arthritis. Don't be a little bitch.

>>41841494
Not even him but he made it fairly clear how it is a false equivalence. There is a common sense bar you must reach to understand/ participate in a cogent debate.
>throws stones from a glass house

>>41840581
Ask your Bf he injects stuff into you every night

>>41851993
It happens. I know experienced users who never bother with AIs or PCT and they're fine. Might be as a result of having naturally high test levels anyway, but I'm not sure. I bet they feel it a bit for a few weeks after finishing, before their balls kick back in again, but keep it quiet.

It's just about being safe is all. A seatbelt or a smoke alarm are not necessary 99.9999% of the time, but if you do need them but don't have them, you'd wish to fucking god you did.

Given AI and PCT tabs are cheap as fuck (and we're talking proper pharma grade here) I don't see why you wouldn't bother.

It's like aspirating - pulling back on the needle a little before pushing the plunger to check you've not hit a vein. Most people don't bother, and that includes various doctors (my GP said he doesn't), but why the fuck not? It takes literally one second and could prevent you coughing your fucking bowels up and being unable to breathe properly for two minutes if you did happen to hit a vein.

The main issue I have with the gung-ho attitude to gear, is that on the rare occasion is DOES go wrong, it gives every steroid user a bad name.

>>41855063
OP here.... that's just it. rare.... i promise if i have bad sides ill keep them to myself.
>>41853911
i really want my balls to work when i go on my cruise... anything i can do on my end to keep them working or will i have to get some blue pills?

>>41855612
Let me guess in your haste to get hooked up you skipped even the most basic bloodtests.

A zillion things can happen to stop your junk from working. In this case assuming nothing goes drastically wrong and you do not have a hyper sensitive endo system.

Your junk should work for the cruise unless you over do the AI and lack the min amount of Estrogen needed. Your real problem is coming off Test and rebounding.

The Testosterone you inject today will shutdown natural production. That same shot will still linger 8 weeks later given the way the product works.

Going on Test is the kind of decision that has long term very real considerations.

Seriously dude you haven't a clue what you are doing. Your worried about your junk for a cruise with no consideration of maybe being forced to pin for the rest of your life.

I know nothing about Tren

>>41848572
i pulled 660 before i even considered roids and i didnt take tren...

>>41840838
There are no permanent side effects from steroids except permanent muscle and androgen gains

>>41840771
you are such a stupid faggot. have fun using only B6 for AI, I can't wait to see those titties!

>>41842503
So your lifts are shit, you're fat, and you're not taking any AI? You know fat makes test aromatize easily, right?

Fuck this is going to be hilarious, I'd tell you to kill yourself but I think you'll do it anyway.

>>41843052
>diet is clean
>19% bodyfat

lmao

>>41843325
>6 week cycle

lmao lmao lmao this just keeps getting better please keep going tell us more

>If I'm way off base here please tell me but from what I can tell gear is 90% trial and error and 10% science.

please don't be larping please don't be larping

>>41843568
>I completely understand the risks involved.
You don't at all and this is why this is fucking hilarious. I can't wait to see your sick shred from your clueless 6 week tren cycle as a fat fucking faggot - this could literally be better than Janoy memes. Post pictures, for the love of god post pictures

>>41842472

>6 years
>those lifts
>roiding without knowing what he's doing
>"animal packs to keep my liver clean"

I've never seen a post so perfectly sum up /fit/

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>>41848572

>>41842472
why is your squat so much higher than your deadlift? injuries?
You have lifts that take 2-3 months to obtain and are hopping on juice after """6 years training"""
enjoy the side affects you are too low IQ to juice successfully

>>41851993
Dude hit the genetic lottery.
Stuff like this happens, but it's rare.

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>>41843202
>"one of the guys in the gym everyday"
>6 years training
>225 lb. deadlift
>"did my homework"
>tren on first cycle
>6 week cycle
>no AI

>>41841490
But if you want to be big and beat up jew-lovers like Pence you gotta pin up

>>41848572
Ive been running SS for 3 months and deadlift 405 for 1. Thats a fucking beginner level lift if you arent extreme manlet

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>>41851825
He wants to make a sale? I can't imagine

>>41840984
>eating things that destroy your health
>actively seeking to destroy your long term health

>all these fags who have been lifting for 6 months and think they'll stay natty forever

Props to you for doing it OP. After lifting for 8 years I've come to realize steroids are the inevitable end game to all of this. Though I don't ever see myself doing tren, I have no doubt I'll hop on test and hgh eventually. I'm honestly too much of a pussy or else I would have done it by now.

OP, get ready and buy some tamoxifen already, fel your nipples everyday, this is the most important, preventing gyno. enjoy the gains because they will be huge, i'm on test only and it freaks me out how strong i am now

>>41840581

Serious question, OP

Don't 'roids make your bollocks shrink?

>>41857347
Yes, while on cycle

OP, remember to inject a few units of air after to help break down the lactic acid and help prevent muscle cramping.

I would use steroids without skipping a beat if I could find them irl, too lazy to check tor right now

>>41857268
serious question... where do i get that shit? ive heard from all sorts of people its good shit.

people talk mad shit about how im going about this but fuck them. im doing stuff to prevent man tits... but no lie i wouldnt mind having some nipple suppressant on hand in case my progest levels get to high due to me being a fat lard ass noob.

talk shit all you want guys but the reality is i put the work in at the gym... just got done with a 2 hour leg sesh.... im sore as fuck, and driving my mustang GT tommorow is gonna be a pain in the ass.

1 more noob question... ive got a vial of test and tren.... keep hearing 6 week cycle is too short... whats the general consensus on how long a cycle should be?

i image those vials should last a good little bit with the amount im pinning.

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How was pre-internet fitness culture like? Nowadays everything seems so retardedly overcomplicated with so many DYEL faggots posing as nutrition and biochemistry experts on anonymous taiwanese cockfighting imageboards.

>>41857364
this is actually a good thing.... my balls are massive, they get in the way of running and shit. my ex wife used to tell me she'd never seen balls so big. Wish that translated to dick length as well but hey, no complaints yet.

>>41858612
tfw they realize the oak was addicted to Dbol.

>>41858612
unless you like drinking eggs and doing curls it was pretty shit

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Shoot it directly into one of your testicles for extreme gainz

>>41858689
This, that's also the fastest way to get heroin into your system.

>>41842472
Are? You? Kidding? Me?
I had better lifts than you in highschool. Bro fuck the pin you need to train like a man, not a bitch

>>41843202
>>41842472
It just keeps getting worse

>>41858781
>>41858792
fitter than most of fit though.

>>41841400
see that needle? .3, or 3 black bars would suffice

>>41841081
it's your body subconsciously trying to keep you from getting an infection. pushing past your own mental fears and pinning is an ego boost and gives mental gains just like the roids give physical gains.

>>41841268
lol. you think? fucking look at all the faggot goody two shoes square pussies in this thread. never, ever gonna make it.

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>>41843202
if this is bait then its 10/10. If not actually kys OP. I'll even send you some bleach and razorblades thru the mail if u want

>>41842656
> being this jealous

>>41843377
lol, bro, just because someone you know didn't get gyno on the same dose doesn't mean you won't. it's totally variable on bf % and genetics.

i applaud you for roiding but you should be fucking panicking right now about the fact you don't have any aromasin on hand. caber is the one you can kinda get away with not taking if the tren is low enough. plus, you are doing a 50/50 test/tren cycle which.. i never see recommended. it's always a cruise dose of test and high tren.

>>41846832
>fraud logic

>>41859459
proper cycle then? dont just say shit and not offer suggestions.

also my buddy says i have to pin 30 mins before workout every other day... why does it matter if its 30 mins before... its hormonal shit... cant see the timing being important.

To people who are saying OP's routine must be shit and that's the reason he's made little gains and that it's not because he has low test levels -

can you advise me of a routine that actually will give me gains? Is there no surefire routine out there that will definitely let me make gains? Why do I have to fuck around making one up and then posting it on /fit/ to have everyone tell me it's bad?

GIVE ME A FUCKING GOOD ROUTINE REEE

>>41840771
run test only for now

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>>41842472
STOP

>>41842472
WTF I deadlift more than you and I'm 150lbs at 6'0 lifting for 9 months how fucking lazy are you bro? There is literally no way this isn't bait... I was skinny fat and I've never even touched creatine... LITERALLY HOW

>>41859743
>Is there no surefire routine out there that will definitely let me make gains
Its all about the weight you are pushing. You can do the best routine in the world but if you dont push yourself HARD you wont see results.

>>41843322
>human race

>>41840984
>bad things people do make other things people do not so bad

Great logic, faggot.

>>41843863
>thinks that the test killed zyzz