Is mcdonald meat real meat or like the normies says it's

>>41783784
It comes from a slaughter house. That's all I need to know.

i used to work at mcdonalds and the boxes said it was beef

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>>41783784
Only fucking idiots think it's fake meat.

McDonalds meat is real, delicious, and the best value per price ratio. They literally have teams full of scientists working day and night to provide you with the most delicious experience for the lowest price possible. Their food is engineered to have the perfect amount of salts, fats, and sugars to tantalize your taste buds and satisfy your hunger.

Stop listening to idiot liberals.

>>41783814
So it's good then? I always saw mcdickeys burgers as okay as long as eaten in moderation.
I just throw the buns away and stack 3x 1€ cheese burgers on top of each other and eat away. Diet coke with them and thats pretty much keto-ish food. No useless carbs. They dont even give mayo in the cheap ones which is good, ketchup is fine as theres so little of it.
Who honestly pays for 5€ burgers when they could just 3-4x the cheap ones and stack them into a bigger one. Smh.

>>41783856
Doesn't mean it's good. A homemade burger will taste better

>>41783865
I said taste per price ratio. Their burgers will always be ready faster and cheaper due to the economics of scale.

>>41783784
>Is mcdonald meat real meat or like the normies says it's fake meat
McD patties are made with 100% beef. That means that the part of it that's beef, is 100% beef.
>also , when asked define fake meat, we never get a proper answer
Fake meat = it comes from textured soy or pea protein blends and didn't have to scream
>Enlighten me /fit/

>>41783784
>real meat
rape animal, torture animal, feed animal with shit, don't let animal ever see the sun, kill animal

>fake meat
use healthy vegetables in shape of meat

>>41784020
If only your dad used his fake meat.

>>41783784
it's not fake, but it's super low grade and they use colouring to make it look more appealing.

I believe when referring to "fake meat," people are often referring to lean finely textured beef, AKA "pink slime." At one point, McDonald's had been criticized before over their chicken being pink slime, when in actuality, part of their burgers used this. Since then, McDonald's has reportedly stopped using lean finely textured beef, but I'm certain they only replaced it with something else.

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pink_slime

It's not fake meat, but it consists of the less desirable meat portions of an animal all rolled up into a consistency that mixes with real beef. I'm not sure what they use now, but if Subway can get away with a large percentage of their chicken being soy, then McDonald's can too with their 17%+ market share of the entire fast food industry.

>>41784020
>BUT LE VEGANS NEVER BRING UP THEIR DIETS Y DO PEPUL ALWAYS SAY THAT?

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>>41784104

>>41784124
Funny that the opposite of that comic is the case.

>>41784254
>what is the difference of real meat and fake meat
>how are vegans allowed to define real meat and fake meat?!?!?!

Meat really lowers your IQ...

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>>41784104

>>41784327
You're really dumb, you know that?

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>>41784254

>>41784402
>>41784377
>I AM SILLY

When your argument needs an ms paint comic to argue with itself, it's not a good argument.

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>>41784104
>>41784254
Aaaand done. Hope I got my point across.

>>41784420
>strawman comics
>"hope I got my point across"

Kek

>>41784420
i hate how vegans try to place animal cruelty and meat eaters on the same boat.

>>41783784
McDonalds beef here in the UK is amazingly bad. Worse than an average frozen burger.

Their chicken is fine though.

>>41783784
its real meat, its just terrible quality

>>41784463
There's no difference

>>41784433
A strawman argument is an argument that presents the opposite side's argument as weaker than it is to make it easier to attack.
Animals do scream and do have to be killed in order to reach your burger. That is not a strawman. If anything, you are committing a strawman (by calling my solid argument a strawman, which I irrefutably showed it isn't) and an ad hominem on top (by implying I am using dishonest tactics)

>>41783856
>$0.01 has been deposited into your account

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>>41784463
You're making this easier than shooting fish in a barrell

>>41784484
A strawman isn't making the argument weaker, it's creating a target to attack separate of the argument. By assuming that all meat eaters are animal abusers, and attacking that argument, it is a strawman. And it's not an ad hominem to call out a fallacy.

Calling you an idiot is ad hominem, even if it's true.

>>41784506
>argue with yourself
>always win

t. Vegans

>>41784507
>>41784506

>>41784523
>>41784507

>>41784529
Being cheeky doesn't make you any less of an animal abuser

>>41784496
kek

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>>41783784
It's fake as fuck. McDonald's is the only food that can consistently make me feel sick and even puke.

I'd rather buy a gyro from a random street vendor than eat this trash.

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>>41784484
I'm a vegan, but you are 100% whiny bitch

>>41784551
"K"

>>41784547
thats called your preference. I puke every time i eat a certain type of fish but you don't see me calling it fake. Im not allergic, i just find texture and taste extremely off putting(preference).

>>41784484
>>41784551
>>41784557

What I mean is you are making it worse for vegans and vegetarians everywhere by arguing like a butthurt fedora. Please stop and let someone more competent present the case for abstaining from meat.

>>41784506
get a load of this faggot

NEWSFLASH!!! If you are a vegan you are a pussy faggot and a disgrace to your ancestors who toiled and fought from the bottom to make humanity the dominant species.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yxs_mTRjLAU
now post tits or gtfo bitch

>>41784603
Lead by example. You didn't add anything of value to the thread with these posts either.

>>41784649
Do you eat meat, fish, dairy or eggs?

>>41784667
I eat honey

>>41783856
Trying to get out of grill duty, I see.

>>41784686
If I pay a hitman to shoot you, am I a murderer?

>>41784506
paying for meat != paying for animals to be intentionally put in pain.

i can't eat mcdonalds without feeling disgusting, its too oily and the meat is too fat

>>41784686

>consuming materials of "abuse" (its not)
it is.

>not make me an abuser
it does.

Paying someone else to kick a dog for your amusement makes both of you abusers, same thing with eating animal products.

> "But I NEED muh meat to live/lift it's not the same as just for amusement!!"

You can live and lift and make gains on a balanced vegan diet, so basically you're still eating animal products just because you're used to it/it tastes good/whatever. Maybe not 100% the same as "just" for amusement, but pretty damn close.

>>41784594
No, it's not. I don't know a single person who would willingly choose to eat a McDonald's burger if there's an alternative. It's the shittiest food, even by junk food standards. A street pizza is 10x better than this garbage.

>>41784466
Canuck here. Both taste like shit.

But obviously it's real meat. Just really cheap and poor quality cuts of meat are used, and there is possibly some filler ground in too.

>>41784402
>>41784377
>>41784420
>>41784506
okay, thats just dumb, i don't pay for people to cut animals throats, usually they shot them in the head with a bolt pistol so they usually die instantaneously and if they don't they die while unconscious, and i already killed countless chickens when i was living with my grandfather (he was at a really bad alzhimers stage) and i'm 100% sure that chickens don't feel a thing when they die
i don't give a shit if you eat meat or dog shit, you want to eat vegetables only? cool, i don't give a shit, but don't come to me and tell me what i can or can't eat

>>41784124
>>41784377
>>41784402
>>41784420
>>41784506
not an argument

>>41784910
You seem reasonable. If you want to continue the discussion I promise to not post any more comics.
________________________

Is it morally acceptable to inflict harm, whether there is pain involved or not, on an unwilling human when there is no need or justification to do so?

>>41784768
>You can live and lift and make gains on a balanced vegan diet
Nowhere near as good or effective as a diet containing animal products
>so basically you're still eating animal products just because you're used to it/it tastes good/whatever. Maybe not 100% the same as "just" for amusement, but pretty damn close.
There is nothing wrong with this. And it it isn't "just" for anyting since eating animal products are, again, better for gains and health
>http://press.endocrine.org/doi/full/10.1210/jcem.85.1.6291
>http://chaosandpain.blogspot.com/2014/10/the-simplicity-of-dieting-it-really-is.html?m=1
>https://breakingmuscle.com/fuel/why-all-humans-need-to-eat-meat-for-health
>https://authoritynutrition.com/7-evidence-based-health-reasons-to-eat-meat/
>https://authoritynutrition.com/it-aint-the-fat-people/
>https://authoritynutrition.com/top-8-reasons-not-to-fear-saturated-fats/
>https://chriskresser.com/the-diet-heart-myth-cholesterol-and-saturated-fat-are-not-the-enemy/
>http://caloriesproper.com/red-meat-wont-kill-you-it-will-make-you-stronger/

VEGAN KEKS PLEASE END YOUR CARBON FOOTPRINT AND KILL YOURSELVES. THANKS.

I don't like McDonald's meat, it's got those weird little rubbery white balloon fat sacs. Gives it a bad texture and grosses me out. I don't know if there's any health problem with it though.

>>41785006
1
Would you not get equally angry to someone who paid to have your brother killed and the killer himself?
2
(Regardless of whether you answered yes or no) Wouldn't you argue then, that someone who chooses to consume animal products is contributing to animal abuse?

>>41785020
Serious question: How do you get enough protein as a vegetarian/vegan?

I went vegetarian for awhile and struggled to hit my macros without overloading carbs from Quinoa and shit. And I switched to veggie protein powder and it made me sick as fuck. And I dont want tits from too much soy.
If I can find a vegetarian diet high in protein Ill go with it because I think it would get rid of my last few points of BF easier

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>>41785047
Cancer:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23169929
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22121108
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11743810
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4135519/
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18789600
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22342103
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15955547
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19279082
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18980957
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3081176
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22867847
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21422422
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12588089
Diabetes:
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/Diabetes/wireStory?id=2244647
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19386029/
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24523914
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19351712
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18481955
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23509418
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16596361
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15983191
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23509418
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24149445
Heart Disease:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17518696
http://circ.ahajournals.org/content/108/22/2757.full.pdf
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7019459
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1312295/
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15172426
Osteoporosis:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25352269
ADA on veganism:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19562864
Longest Living Population:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11434797
Low Carbohydrate Diets and mortality:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20820038
Plant foods have a complete Amino Acid profile:
http://circ.ahajournals.org/content/105/25/e197.full
Benefits of a vegan diet:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4691673/
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3967195/
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4073139/
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4245565/
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4583329/

>>41784327
I am honestly confused about how this relates.

>>41785134
Got any links to optimal vegetarian diets while lifting?

Id save a fuckton of money in grad school rn if I could eat next to no meat

they bath the meat in ammoniak and colour it afterwards. the meat have to look and taste always the same all around the world.

jamie oliver was at court because of this. he wanted to declare the meat "not for humans". he failed but mc donalds had to admit that they do it. do some research and you'll find a source if you don't believe me.

>>41785103
>>41785176
FFS show me some actual recipes and diet examples of a vegetarian who gets enough protein without chugging soy and protein powder and Ill switch, goddamn.

Cause the shit Im finding online is all carb-loaded bullshit

>>41784894
I love mcdonalds, much better than burger king or our domestic alternative hesburger, and cheaper to boot

>>41785103
>Serious question:
Happy to help
>How do you get enough protein as a vegetarian/vegan?
Well, two things
1) you do have to be a bit selective in the foods you eat.
2) depends on what you consider enough. I am content with 100-150g per day at 95 kg bodyweight, but you may feel you recover best on more than that. I won't tell you how much you should eat, but eating my maintenance calories (2700) in plain white pasta gives me 95 grams protein. I don't actually do that, it is just a hypothetical to show that you don't really have to track it even when eating "carbs". Just eat some beans for lunch and nuts for breakfast, drink some plant based milk with your cereal, put seeds in your shakes (hemp is the tits), pick low calorie fruit like berries to avoid too much sugar (dates, oranges, bananas), maybe add a scoop of pea/rice/hemp protein powder
>I went vegetarian for awhile and struggled to hit my macros without overloading carbs from Quinoa and shit.
Beans, lentils, peas, chickpeas are all lower in carbs and higher in protein than quinoa, try them
>And I switched to veggie protein powder and it made me sick as fuck.
Really? Which brand and what kind?
>And I dont want tits from too much soy.
Myth, soy has phytoestrogen, a weak potency estrogen-like compound that mimics real estrogen, binds to the estrogen receptora in your body and prevents real estrogen from being as effective. Beef and dairy milk have actual mammalian estrogen.
>If I can find a vegetarian diet high in protein Ill go with it because I think it would get rid of my last few points of BF easier
Hope I helped. Final tip: don't go cold turkey. Slowly substitute what you can to make it easier. Give vegan cheese a try, vegan ribs, beyond burger, plant milk... One step at a time. Slow and steady.
Good luck!

>>41785287
Alright cool thanks

I gave it a try before but stopped after a few months. Im starting with eliminating beef.

Its gonna save me a ton of money.

>>41785176
Yes but the answer will attract a lot of shitposting.
Leddit dot com
r/vegan
r/veganfitness
r/veganrecipes
r/vegangifrecipes
r/veganfoodporn

>>41785346
I mean /r/steroids is pretty accurate among others, reddit gets some things pretty right

>>41785365
Honestly if you avoid the underage and the sjw subs the community there can be very informative

>>41783856
>implying value to prove ratio is good for consumers.
If McDonald's can make a burger 20% cheaper but 15% less tasty, they will. Corporate can save billions of dollars from that, you save a couple pennies for a burger that tastes even worse.

>>41785020
>Is it morally acceptable to inflict harm, whether there is pain involved or not, on an unwilling human when there is no need or justification to do so?
There is no set of consistent moral principles that work so appealing to morality is fucking stupid.
But even if we were to pretend that there were such a set of principles, it's a fallacy to assume that non-human animals carry the same value as human animals. There are several reasons for this but perhaps most obviously is because non-human animals don't even have a concept of morality.

Even going beyond that and pretending that non-human animals are moral agents or carry the same value as humans, there is plenty of justification to kill animals to eat them. Just because you don't agree with the reasons doesn't make them any less valid
Starting at the most cynical reason, the free market dictates that there is a considerable market for animal meat.
>but the free market would show a market for human meat if it was legal!
That's changing the argument. I'm saying there is reason to kill animals, not that there isn't reason to kill humans

Being less cynical, meat tastes much better than artificial replacements, is very healthy, natural and a great source of fat and protein.

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>>41785487

>>41785134
>Cancer:
>Diabetes:
>Heart Disease:
>Osteoporosis:
And by all of that you surely mean:
>Complete bullshit
>>41785047
>http://www.saragottfriedmd.com/does-meat-cause-cancer-revisiting-the-meat-igf-1-and-cancer-connection/
>https://rawfoodsos.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/minger_formal_response2.pdf
>https://deniseminger.com/2010/08/06/final-china-study-response-html/
>https://deniseminger.com/2010/08/03/the-china-study-a-formal-analysis-and-response/
>https://deniseminger.com/2010/07/07/the-china-study-fact-or-fallac/
>http://www.foodrenegade.com/the-china-study-discredited/
>https://deniseminger.com/the-china-study/
>https://www.westonaprice.org/our-blogs/the-curious-case-of-campbells-rats-does-protein-deficiency-prevent-cancer/
>https://www.westonaprice.org/our-blogs/taking-a-trip-down-memory-lane-fishing-for-our-good-friend-glutathione-in-the-waters-of-the-memory-hole-how-t-colin-campbell-helped-prove-that-protein-protects-us/
>https://www.t-nation.com/diet-fat-loss/10-things-vegetarians-get-wrong
>https://www.t-nation.com/diet-fat-loss/vegans-suck-at-science-heres-the-proof
>ADA on veganism:
The ADA and other oragnizations research/tenuous correlations trotted against meat are laughable
>http://www.diagnosisdiet.com/meat-and-cancer/
>http://www.mensfitness.com/nutrition/what-to-eat/meat-cancer-bacon-who-report-mens-fitness-health
>Longest Living Population:
Another meme bacxked up by obnly tenuos correlations , only looks good compared to the SAD or SAD like diets, and those poeple are more likely to be health consious overall. this doesn't disprocve anything
>Plant foods have a complete Amino Acid profile
And yet aniomal products are still superior against sole plant sources in this regard. And if you eat both you're more than covered
>Low Carbohydrate Diets and mortality:
More tenious links and memes
>Benefits of a vegan diet:
Can be gained with even more benefits, including superior strength and muscle building, by including animal products

>>41785512
>Damage Control
More shitposting about how you don't research or read either, I see

>>41785499
>There is no set of consistent moral principles that work so appealing to morality is fucking stupid.
If morality is subjective, then can I rob you and stab you? Careful, this is dangerous "appeal to legality/social contract" pitfall if you try and refute this.
>it's a fallacy to assume that non-human animals carry the same value as human animals.
I never said they do. A retarded kid is also of lower value to you, that doesn't mean you can eat it. Elon Musk has a higher net worth than you, that doesn't mean he can eat you
>There are several reasons for this but perhaps most obviously is because non-human animals don't even have a concept of morality.
Schizos don't either, that doesn't mean we can eat them
>Just because you don't agree with the reasons doesn't make them any less valid
Unless they are objectively wrong and not a matter of personal opinion
>Starting at the most cynical reason, the free market dictates that there is a considerable market for animal meat.
What if a couple thousand literal pedophiles gather and start uploading ads for single digit age sex slaves? There is a market, however tiny. We should meet their demands, not?
>>but the free market would show a market for human meat if it was legal!
>That's changing the argument.
No, not really, it's just pointing out the logical inconsistency
>There is a reason to eat meat and a reason not to eat meat
Assume your mother is in the ER and reguires multiple, extensive, expensive surgeries due to a car crash. There is a reason to save her (you want her to live) and a reason not to (it's expensive and we need the money to fund the war in Syria, plus we need our best doctors to be available for the next 2 hours because they need to put a bandaid on Trump's toe). Should your mother be let to succumb to her injuries?
1/2

>>41785672
>>41785499
>Being less cynical, meat tastes much better than artificial replacements
Do 2 minutes of pleasure justify someone's entire life?
>is very healthy
Absolutely not, read >>41785134
> natural
Cobra venom is natural. Cancer cells are natural. Polio is natural. Feces are natural.
Condoms are unnatural. Vaccines are unnatural. Smartphones and PCs are unnatural. Chemotherapy is unnatural.
You see where I'm getting with this?
>and a great source of fat
A most terrible source of fat and the WHO agrees with me on that one
>and protein.
That is also true.

>>41785251
Well, you have some awfully shitty taste then.

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>>41783856
dont listen to this conservative,
burger king is the healthiest food out there.
professors phds, mds, chemists, 9 star cooks are everyday working so hard to make you an insane king feeling.

>>41785672
>If morality is subjective, then can I rob you and stab you? Careful, this is dangerous "appeal to legality/social contract" pitfall if you try and refute this.
This doesn't follow. More importantly, you're using a strawman argument as is the case with the rest of your post.

The onus is not on me to justify any law or principle, only criticise your weak implication that there is no morally acceptable reason to kill an animal and that there isn't justification to do so either. And I've done so.
You're now assuming a whole set of other statements, for example, that robbing and stabbing is wrong purely for the same moral reasons that I dismiss early on.
To prove my point, I can easily say they are not morally impermissible actions, they are actions that we deem illegal and punish for to allow for a thriving society that can flourish. We universally (pretty much, ignoring terrorists) want this to be the case

This does not apply to eating animals.
Reconsider your responses and then come back to me

>inb4 not reading this post and claiming I didn't respond to most of your post

>>41785922
>More importantly, you're using a strawman argument as is the case with the rest of your post.
No, this is not a strawman. And calling it a strawman won't make it a strawman either.
It is an A N A L O G Y. I use YOUR OWN LOGIC and apply it to a different scenario. If it elicits a different response from you (which it did, you dismissed it), you are using a double standard. That is formalese for "hypocrisy"
>The onus is not on me to justify any law or principle
Then why start this discussion
>only criticise your weak implication
Strong, crystal clear and direct statement*
>that there is no morally acceptable reason to kill an animal and that there isn't justification to do so either. And I've done so.
No, you have not. You said something along the lines of "it's tasty", "who cares", and "animals are below us". The first two are not justifications and the last I have refuted
>You're now assuming a whole set of other statements, that robbing and stabbing is wrong
But it is. Is it not? Bait?
>purely for the same moral reasons that I dismiss early on.
What is your reasoning for robbing being moral then?
>To prove my point, I can easily say they are not morally impermissible actions, they are actions that we deem illegal and punish for to allow for a thriving society
>This does not apply to eating animals.
You literally fell into the "appeal to legality" and "appeal to social contract" pit I warned you about at the start of my post. To show why they are wrong, I will now use two analogies. Not strawmen, analogies.
Legality:
>I married a neet wife without a prenup. I make $500k. I want to break up because she got fat. According to law, she is entitled to half my assets. It is legal for her to take half. Is it RIGHT though? Does it resonate well with me?
Social contract:
>Niggers used to be slaves 200 years ago. Women couldn't vote. Gays are stoned to death in certain middle East shitholes. Everyone does/did it, it is/was the social contract. Is it RIGHT?

>>41785230
B E A N S

>>41786082
>"Is it morally acceptable to inflict harm, whether there is pain involved or not, on an unwilling human when there is no need or justification to do so?"
>Strong, crystal clear and direct statement*
lel
If you think a question is a strong, clear and direct statement than it's no wonder you can't argue for shit

Please explain to me why I should care if an animal dies?

>>41786082
I don't see how you're so confused.

>You literally fell into the "appeal to legality" and "appeal to social contract" pit I warned you about at the start of my post.
What are you even trying to say? You asked if you were allowed to rob/murder someone
I said that these actions are illegal because it prevents society from thriving. Can you not gather from that that that's a potential answer to why these actions shouldn't be allowed without appealing to morality?

>The first two are not justifications
Yes they are, you just dont agree with them (unsurprisingly)
> and the last I have refuted
No you haven't

Have you ever argued anything on an academic level? Seriously, jokes and memes aside

>>41786180
Because all life is sacred and faggots need a cause to feel morally superior to all the meat-eating plebs (despite owning iphones made from borderline slave labour and wearing leather shoes)

I mean it says 100% meat. It may not be high quality meat, but it sure is meat. It really isn't the meat that's bad for you tho, it's the gallons of grease they put in their food. Still, mcdoubles are God-tier cheap bulking food.

It's almost certainly a mix of low grade beef and soy for filler. They proved Subway chicken was substantially cut with faux meat.

>>41786232
>soy
>http://chaosandpain.blogspot.com/2010/09/soy-is-devil-and-not-in-fun-way.html
>http://chaosandpain.blogspot.com/2010/09/soy-is-devil-and-not-in-fun-way-22-12.html

>>41783856
>tfw ill never be a burger scientist

>>41786144
Go back to the naruto and star wars forums you came from, please. Global rule 2 applies here.
>>41786181
>What are you even trying to say? You asked if you were allowed to rob/murder someone
>I said that these actions are illegal because it prevents society from thriving. Can you not gather from that that that's a potential answer to why these actions shouldn't be allowed without appealing to morality?
The discussion started >>41785020 here. I am not making an appeal to morality, we are discussing morality. You are literally off topic.
>>The first two are not justifications
>Yes they are, you just dont agree with them (unsurprisingly)
Analogies ahead on why X is not a justification
> "it's tasty"
You are tasty so I am justified in killing you for food. I know it is illegal, but you can't be mad at me because I did the right thing.
> "who cares"
I killed you because I don't care about you. I know it's illegal, but you can't be mad at me because I did the right thing
>and "animals are below us"
>> and the last I have refuted
>No you haven't
The refutation follows logically if we agree on the above fallacies of human murder being unjustified
>Have you ever argued anything on an academic level? Seriously, jokes and memes aside
Yup, defending my second thesis in a month. Way easier than this because my professors don't usually stray off topic, and they also understand simple arguments like 1+1=2. Thanks for asking.

>>41786398
>You are tasty so I am justified in killing you for food. I know it is illegal, but you can't be mad at me because I did the right thing.
And this is a justification. Not a very good one, but still a justification to some. Justification is subjective, how do you not understand this?
The next step is arguing that this is not sufficient justification

>Yup, defending my second thesis in a month.
Bullshit. You're either doing a shitty degree like English where you don't need arguments, only analysis and "persuasive" (read: biased) prose, or else you're bullshitting. No way someone who fundamentally can't argue is defending their second thesis in actual academic work.

>>41785020
Eating meat is evil, but less so than most things people already do. Animals eating animals is kind of part of life. Every species on Earth has had time to evolve with that, and as fucked as it is, it's more an issue of the cruelty in evolution than people themselves.

Basically what I'm saying is, eat meat or don't. The difference is negligible. There's already been about a billion years of this going on, and it will continue for as long as life exists. You could convince every human to go vegan, and it wouldn't put a dent in the suffering that has already existed.

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>>41786510
>The next step is arguing that this is not sufficient justification
Well, is it?
>Bullshit
Hope you can read Greek, my textbook for the last class I have to pass. All the proof I can give atm.

friendly reminder that killing animals for food is okay, but torturing them is not. This is where most vegans go wrong when they're trying to convince people why they should go vegan. No one cares about the death of animals, this shit happens in nature.

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>>41784420
This here comic must have stopped being posted enough that big heal angry comics have made a come back as a form of argument

>>41786532
>Eating meat is evil, but less so than most things people already do.
True.
> Animals eating animals is kind of part of life.
Animals being eaten alive or dying of preventable diseases and famine is also part of nature. Humans have evolved beyond nature.
>Every species on Earth has had time to evolve with that, and as fucked as it is, it's more an issue of the cruelty in evolution than people themselves.
>Basically what I'm saying is, eat meat or don't. The difference is negligible.
Drop in the ocean, true. What about 7.5 billion drops though?
Also, I like the quote "be the change you want to see"
>There's already been about a billion years of this going on, and it will continue for as long as life exists. You could convince every human to go vegan, and it wouldn't put a dent in the suffering that has already existed.
True, but why take part in it? Live and let live.

>>41784402
>Jews use Kosher style slaughter to pressure the lowly goyim to give up meat

>>41785771
this, whopper is the best thing to come out of america

>>41786593
This is true but doesn't invalidate the author's point though, just saying.

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I like Wendy's burgers better.

>>41785514
>A list of peer reviewed articles gets posted
>responds with a long list of blog posts

Get the fuck out.

>>41784894
of course you don't know a single person, you don't go outside dumbass

>>41785684
vegentarianism is natural, many ancient "civilizations" were built upon crops and the scarcity of meat

of course those same civilizations were then conquered by others who enjoyed a meat-heavy diet but that's neither here nor there

>>41786114
>>41785134
>>41785103
>>41785088
>>41785083
>>41785047
>>41785020
>>41784969
>>41784910
>>41784899


beans beans the magical plant,

just try to stop eating, you know that you can't

eaten every day they're good for your bench

beans beans they'll make you look dench

>>41786760
kek

its real meat, but theres a catch. Its mechanically processed. Meaning meat bits and other stuff sometimes including bone and gristle that was on the carcass that wasn't able to be pulled off from the original meat stripping process.
Usually this mechanicaly shredded meat is mixed with some ground and a filler, usually make with a buncha nasty shit like propylene glycol, cellulose and coloring so it retains texture and shape of meat. After all that they hose it down with preservatives and flash freeze it to ship it out to franchises.

>>41786610
I'm not saying there is a reason why eat meat, I'm saying there is no reason why not. You be the change you want to see, others will do as they do.

It's an opinion and a choice, but no matter what you choose, it barely fucking matters.

Besides, being an omnivore is rad. Vegetarians and carnivores alike can suck it.

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>>41783784
49% water and 12% meat

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For me, it's the McChicken. The best fast food sandwich. I even ask for extra McChicken sauce packets and the staff is so friendly and more than willing to oblige.

>>41786853
>I'm saying there is no reason why not.
Because animals feel pain, it is inefficient practice (read food pyramid and energy wasted on each level), it emits GHG, has a tremendous water footprint, contributes heavily to Amazon deforestation, clogs your arteries and causes cancer.
>It's an opinion and a choice, but no matter what you choose
What about the animals' choice?

>>41786943
Everything feels pain. The universe is kind of fucked up like that.

I think you're missing the point here. You can do whatever you want, and think whatever you want of yourself, but in the global/universal context, choosing to eat meat or not will not elevate you to some greater state of being.

You can love animals with all your heart, go around saving them, and still eat meat. You can go around inadverntently hurt more animals than the average meat eater by acting like a douchy vegan and making the concept unattractive.

In the end, it doesn't matter. We're an under evolved species flailing about like morons, and it doesn't get much dumber than thinking you could ever be more than that.

>>41787028
Exactly. Huge universe, speck of dust floating in the cosmos, nihilism, etc. So, what matters? Would you agree that all that matters is "reality", as subjectively perceived by someone?

its shit tier beef but it is beef

>>41786663
>Get the fuck out.
>Not reading then defending bullshit
Read. Then get the fuck out.

>>41787419
>Peer reviewed meta analyses are bs
Global rule 2 applies here

>>41787496
The only thing that applies here is you still not reading and retardedly trying to argue

Hey vegans, what do you do when a mosquito lands on your arm and starts drinking your blood? Do you kill him or just let him do his thing?
What do you do when you have a heavy ant infestation in your house? Cockroaches? Termites?

Unironically genuinely interested, not memeing.

>>41787775
>Veganism is a way of living which seeks to exclude, as far as is possible and practicable, all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose.
Most vegans would tiptoe around that question. Because of their actual beliefs, because they want to seem pc in the eyes of other vegans, I don't know. But I'd swat the fucker. I would use insecticides. I abstain from meat because the pig didn't do anything to deserve death. Live and let live. I don't need chicken wings to thrive. The cockroach or mosquito did, they directly threatened, degraded or harmed my well-being.

>>41787858
>the mosquito violated the NAP so it should die
I'd be more okay with vegans if they would just be straightforward like this.

It's real, it's just the lowest possible quality grade available

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>>41784702
it would be extremely painful

>>41784420
>Aaaand done.
unironically kys you insufferable fag

>>41783784
It's meat, and in fact McDonalds literally has their own strain of cattle they get their beef from, but the burgers are high in fat content, there's literally many more grams of fat per patty than there is protein, so it's really not anywhere near as nutritious as you might think it is. Of course all fast food burgers are like that, which is why they're a piss-poor deal for the premium price you pay for them. As always, if you want a high quality burger that is high quality nutrition then you need to make your own using quality ingredients, like good fresh LEAN ground beef.

>>41783856
>the best value per price ratio
LOL no, only babbys who don't know how to shop and/or don't know how to make their own at home with high quality ingredients believe this. And trolls, trolls want others to waste their money on low quality shit fast food. Which are you?

>what is soft population control?
Anon5 get in here...

>>41787103
Not big on nihilism. I take my own life seriously, make decisions by attempted ethical standards, the whole human experience. I just don't like to pretend that there is any such thing as true progress. There is the feeling of it, and we all feel it from different things.

To me, there's a big difference between pursuing the sense of progress, and actually believing in it.

Also, I find it ironic that the more a person attempts to push their sense of progress on another, the more a sense of progress in resistance is created.

The way you're going about things is just going to push people into greater extremes, because that is the example you're setting.

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>>41783856
why would ANYONE shill for fucking MCDONALDS. Actually kys

>>41783856
I fucking HATE the liberal bs. I guess I could be seen as liberal and I don't give a fuck if it's meat or not. If I'm going to McDonald's for a burger it's just the meat, but the taste of the entire burger, and the fries that I want. So who fucking cares if it's meat? It's not toxic so that solves that. Quit being a faggot and thinking all of us are clones of the same soft pussy guy. This political bs is out of control, it doesn't have to be like this, at all.

>>41784402
Throat cutting slaughter is kosher and halal meat only. And it's perfectly humane on animals goat sized and smaller (drop in blood pressure results in instantaneous reflex loss of consciousness), if not in cattle (who have oversized peripheral arteries and the muscle mass to reduce bp drop when the carotid artery is cut).

Everybody else either bolt guns, hammers, or decapitates (poultry).

Yes, this means that halal and kosher beef is not humane.

It feels fake, it's so soft and weird

>>41784036
kek

I get a mcdouble with two 1/4 lb patties on the side that I put in it. Pretty good.

>>41784420
You proved his point, yeah

>>41789002
Arguing with people who have stayed at arms length from the brutal necessities their privileged life requires is pointless.

They are so infantilized it's like arguing with six year olds.

>>41783856
've never met a bait so good it convinced me the person is a shill

>>41784483
that's why IACUC associations exist for animal research labs, right?

complete fucking moron

>>41783784
Fake meat in the sense of fast-food/nugget type means it's not made with fine meat cuts (ex:sirloin for burgers), but instead use low-end cheap parts of the animal (buttholes, ears, hard joints, collagene), which are minced, flavored and shaped like meat or cheese. In this sense, McDonalds meat and cheese are 100%fake.

No, they are not feeding you undercover soy steaks, that shit is expensive.

>>41783865
>a homemade burger will taste better

Lies

How fucked am I if I restrain from chicken, pork and beef and veal but eat my fish and eat dairy products?
If only insects were viable option here. I feed crickets to my mantis and I envy the fucker.

>>41789002
You must be confused. What do you think happens to a cow or pig after it has been bolt stunned? Do you think it immediately turns to burger patties?

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>>41783856

>>41783856
KEK

>>41792101
Kek
I'd add a jew looking over his shoulder and rubbing his hands, or Candito's face on the employee

>>41792101
Bumping cause not enough people saw this

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>>41786610
>Humans have evolved beyond nature.

>>41783856
nah, Burger King has cheaper base burgers and the beef is considerably tastier. at least here in Cali;
1.39 for a plain Hamburger at McD's
1.03 for a plain Cheeseburger at BK
admittedly, McDonald's buns are much tastier, but there's no contest with the beef patty.

Any vegans care to take a crack at this argument? By eating meat, we are creating a demand for more animals to be brought into existence, that would otherwise not have lived. If the animals have good lives living in a big space with other animals etc, then they are killed instantly/humanely, then I would argue that the value of their lives are greater than 0. These animals wouldn't be brought into the world if not for human demand for meat.

Another thought is that the eating of meat by an individual doesn't lead to more animals dying in a direct way. It is very unlikely that meat production levels will change due to one person stopping eating meat. So, there is minimal incentive for a person to change their behaviour, even if they are concerned for animals. A better use of their effort might be to convince many other people not to eat meat, which could potentially lead to a substantial drop in meat demand and therefore animal killing.
This is similar to voting in an election, where the likelihood that your vote will change the result is minuscule, so there is less incentive to vote.

However, I can see some value in choosing not to eat meat as a signalling strategy...to bring awareness to the issue.

>>41794451
>By eating meat, we are creating a demand for more animals to be brought into existence, that would otherwise not have lived.
Would you like to have been bred into slavery, lived in a 1x2 m2 apartment, never see the light of the sun and killed soon after reaching adulthood? And that's if female, if male you'd I have been killed at days old. Would you consider your government of life a benevolent benefactor?
>If the animals have good lives living in a big space with other animals etc, then they are killed instantly/humanely, then I would argue that the value of their lives are greater than 0.
Is there a way to kill humanely someone who wants to live? Would killing a human who didn't want to die with a stun gun to the head then a quick and painless decapitation, be ever considered "humane"?
>Another thought is that the eating of meat by an individual doesn't lead to more animals dying in a direct way.
Yes it does man...
> It is very unlikely that meat production levels will change due to one person stopping eating meat.
Drop in the ocean, sure. But what about 7bn drops?
>So, there is minimal incentive for a person to change their behaviour, even if they are concerned for animals. A better use of their effort might be to convince many other people not to eat meat, which could potentially lead to a substantial drop in meat demand and therefore animal killing.
Yes but here is the thing: activism costs money, time and energy. Picking chickpeas instead of chicken breast from the grocery store requires zero additional time, money or energy
>This is similar to voting in an election, where the likelihood that your vote will change the result is minuscule, so there is less incentive to vote.
If anything, that argument is pro veganism. You should always vote, even if your party is going to lose in a landslide.
>However, I can see some value in choosing not to eat meat as a signalling strategy...to bring awareness to the issue.
Also this.

>>41794451
>your government of life
>>41794551
Giver* of life

>>41794563
But what if the animals weren't living in poor conditions? No factory farming etc, would you then agree that their lives are reasonable?
In regard to the killing, it's a necessary condition for them to be brought into existence in the first place, so one could argue that not to bring them into existence is worse than bringing them into existence, allowing them to live a reasonably good live, before killing them as humanely as possible (some instant method).

I think you slightly missed what I meant with the voting argument. Basically, it's that it's not worth the time/effort of voting, because your impact is so close to 0. Yeah, convincing others to vote takes effort too, but potentially the reward for effort is better.

>>41794551
Also the 7bn drops argument is poor in my opinion, because of this. When the first person chooses to vote for one party (or chooses to eat vegan), the marginal impact is close to 0. As the number of people changing their behaviour increases, the marginal impact of one person changing increases. Eventually there's a point where there is a strong chance that an additional vote will change an election/issue outcome, so that voter has a strong incentive to vote. However, this point is hard to get to because the incentive for the first lot of people to change is so very tiny.

>>41792101
lmfao

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>>41794961
>1st paragraph
I don't have to say anything further, just reread the post you replied to. The first half with the rhetorical questions.
>2nd
Do you believe you should vote? Simple question. Y/N?
>>41795002
Same as above. One vote doesn't make a difference. That said, should you vote?

>>41795106

>did i stutter?

Yes, you did because you have anemia you sickly fuck.

Every person i've ever known who claimed to have anemia also just happened to eat little to no meat. It was totally a coincidence though.

If you want to be vegan, then fine, but i've yet to meet one that didn't have health problems (and yet to meet one who actually followed through and didn't go back to meat a few years later). Not to mention, they're alll shitty obnoxious people. Even when it has nothing to do with diet, they're just annoying people. It's like how fatties are always dicks.

>>41796218
That post comes off as reasonable, level-headed, humble and very informative. Must be from the bacon.