What would you do if someone broke into your house? What would

>>41627703
You don't have honor, that's a citizens or noble's right. Subjects are not allowed to actually own anything so you never lost anything anyway.

t. Amerifat.

get dogs

>>41627703
cry and assume the fetal position in the cabinet under my sink

>>41627703
Laugh at him for wasting him time breaking into a shithole with nothing worth stealing.

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Straight to the jaw.

>>41627750
the house is way too small for dogs
>>41627800
prison for "unnecessary excessive force"
>>41627775
I have a very expensive work laptop as well as a camera

lol your politicians probably consider all life valuable while preventing you from self-defense under the threat of prison

Good job cucks

you beat the living shit out of him and chase him away

>Happened two months ago and my adrenaline was through the roof
>I work remote/from home and don't need to be in the office every week

Live in an apartment housing community with over 20 buildings/lots
Working from home
Laptop open, sitting on the couch going through emails
Hear someone outside my apartment walking around and making noise
Figure neighbor his here or package delivery dropping shit off
My door knob shifts, I sit there trying to listen what is going on outside of the door while I'm on the couch looking at the door now
Door knob is making noise, both locks are locked so not sure who is there or trying to check if my door is unlocked
Reach for my g19 by the corner table
Sit on the couch and just listen in silence, trying to make not a sound of noise
Hear someone walk away through the door and down the stairs
Sit in silence for 10 minutes listening, gun in hand, finger off the trigger
Decide to walk out and check surrounding
Gun hidden to the side, look out of my door nobody there, no packages on the floor or neighbors doors
Couldn't understand who that could have been or why they would check if my door was open by attempting to twist the knob

I have a knife and pepperspray under my bed. I'm not American so these "weapons" aren't allowed in public, but i can have them in my apartment.
If someone breaks into my apartment, i will consider them a "threat towards my life or person" and defend myself using these "weapons", and it is my right to do so, as far as i know.

>>41627703
>In my country, you could go to jail if you hurt the burglar, I am very paranoid about this.

Which country is this so I know never to live there

Keep a knife and tactical flashlight in your night stand, or buy a gun.

call police and leave phone on

repeatedly inform the intruder that i've called the police and am armed

if they persist and approach or enter the room i'm in then i will shoot them

of course in reality i'd probably just be screaming random shit and stomping my feet to seem big so they don't know i'm a manlet

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5HMHtCgcUE0

>>41628346
probably Spain

Chances are nobody knows the burglar is there at that moment. Just make him disappear

Shoot to kill.

>>41628386
>>41628346
>>41627703
100% Spain.
This fukn country works like that, yeah.

If a shithead drowns in my pool, I get in trouble if I don't have a sign that tells >here's a pool

And more like that.

>>41628433
Caso Tous

Only correct answer is you shoot the shithead.

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Post yfw your state has castle doctrine.

>>41627703
Shoot them. I have 4 loaded guns scattered around my house at all times.

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>>41628360
>16 rounds in the chamber

>>41628360
>repeatedly inform the intruder that i've called the police and am armed
Never let someone know you're armed.

in my country you have a stupid rule that you can't defend yourself before 10PM, but after that as far as i know almost everything goes, i don't know i'd probably use one of my training longswords to break his legs

>>41627703
>Don't mind me just pirating this door

>>41627703
Hungary ?

>>41628743
No thanks, I just ate

>>41628728
lol,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALZZx1xmAzg

anyway, stealing doesn't make killing acceptable,
not if you're a policeman
not if you're a fellow armed citizen
it's reasonable to shoot only to defend your life, not if just your goods are in danger. a thief breaking into your house is not necessarily a threat to your persona. if the thief is escaping already, shooting at him is plain murder.

besides, preparing yourself to beat the shit out of an intruder is probably better than carrying a gun with yourself. 99% of the fellow armed citizen won't or can't shoot, or won't or can't shoot in such a stressful situation; and that's a recipe for disaster.

>>41628662
this is great

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>>41628522


>>41628909

Not in Texas, you pussy bitch. I don't give a fuck what your intentions are, if you break into my home, you're getting fucking ventilated.

Shoot them with my assault rifle I bought at Walmart

Mosin nagant bayonet stab + pull trigger ideally.

But depending on where I am in the house, whatever gun is closest is fine

Maybe not my 45-70 though. I don't want to have to fix that much drywall

>>41628743
what?

>>41627703
>In my country, you could go to jail if you hurt the burglar

"He said he was going to kill me" and it's no longer a burglary. Easy.

>>41627703
1. tell them to stop and don't move
2. if they move shoot them

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WHY AH YOU HEEERE?

>>41627703
The best they could burgle from my house is a pair of dumbbells

>>41627703
I believe everyone should have a firearm in their home for their protection from burglars. If you break into someones home you are intruding on someones life and livelihood. But I think those people that constantly carry around a concealed gun are a little bit excessive, paranoid even. Btw your countries laws are literally backwards.

>>41627703
yes in my country too. if he is with knife for example you cant use gun against him or some shit law

>>41627703
If I lived in a place where I would go to jail for hurting the burglar, or even for defending my home in a way that did not harm the burglar, then I would make sure that the burglar died. I mean, if I'm gonna go to prison anyways, I might as well make it worth the time and make sure that justice got served to the burglar.

>>41629393
I'd tie them up and get mediaeval on them. Then I'd probably bum them (no homo) just for good measure.

>>41628286
I've done this by accident to somebody else's dorm. I thought it was my place and stuck my key in and wondered what waa going on when it didn't unlock. Turns out I was on the wrong floor and my place was directly above.

I was concerned that I may have freaked out whoever was living there, if present.

>>41627703
9mm beretta

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>>41627703
shoot them

>>41627703
If they broke into my house I'd be woke up well before by my autistic Schnauzer doing it's whole guard dog thing. I'd probably call the police as I have the time from being warned and then grab the bar from my weights next to my bed, walk downstairs and hope I can scare them off. Failing that I hope I have the balls to hit him and not run like a bitch. I'd like to say I'd murder or at least fuck up the guy but I'd go to jail for that here.

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>>41628522

>>41627703
id probably collect a few rifles when i get older, so i wouldnt have any issues here.

Baseball bat to the head and until they are unconscious and then tie them up and drive them deep into the forest leaving them butt ass naked

>>41628522
Is that a luger on the top? How did moe get his hands on that?

I have on several occasions gotten up in the middle of the knight, taken off my underpants and picked up my machete and just strolled around my house looking for burgulars while I'm talking to myself, just cause I heard a noise. I feel like if I act like a psycho they problably be more scared than me.

I have never had burgulars in my house though.

>>41628662
kek'd

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>>41629828
>tfw i do the same thing, but i sleep naked already, and i dual wield a swiss knife and my army knife

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Pity the poor bastard. My house is a deathtrap

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>tfw live in state with stand your ground law
can shoot someone who looks suspicious on property
old guy shot kids ding dong ditching and faced no charges

>>41629922
I'm just glad too someone else do the same thing.
I'd go barehanded kinde like Bronson, but I'm a manlet so that would intimidate anyone.

>>41630037
I meant kinda

>>41627703
Move

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>>41627703
I have a shotgun so I'd probably just use that. It's loaded with bird shot/double ought buckshot, since I don't want to hit anyone in the house over with a slug on accident.

Depending on how it goes you either just aim center mass or hit them in the legs. And that is dependent on what your states laws are for home defense. Aiming at the chest can be considered man slaughter where I am if you can't prove you had the intent to flee, and if in that case you aim below the waist it becomes assault w/deadly weapon instead of manslaughter.

Now if your back was against the wall and they were within a certain proximity you could claim self defense and probably be fine. Shit was simpler when I was in Vegas.

>>41629729
You can buy rifles when you're 18. Underage b&

grab my machete. if the guy has a gun just say fuck it he can take it i guess unless he REALLY leaves himself open. like asking for it tier.

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>>41627703
is there any reason you couldn't just murder him and dispose of the body? seems unlikely someone would come looking for him at your house, unless there's accomplices but they'd be too afraid of exposing themselves to go to the cops surely

just hypothetically of course haha

>>41627703
>Be me
>be on a date with Zooey Deschanel
>she's getting pretty handsy
>it's going great
>feel something on my arm
>wake up
>room lit by bf's tablet
>he's whispering something about hearing the back door open
>this happens at least three times a year
>grab gun
>ready it
>walk out into the hall as usual expecting absolutely nothing
>someone is standing there holding something
>bring gun up and fire three shots.
>see someone run from living room towards kitchen
>another guy running up the stairs and bee-lines it towards the kitchen
>trips and smacks his head on the coffee table
>bf in the bedroom screaming like a bitch
>stand there with gun at the ready and tell him to call 911
>turn the lights on
>go figure, they didn't do anything wrong
>oh shit, they were armed
>kick the gun down the hall from the one I shot
>pull the gun from the waist of the other one and toss it down the hall
>boyfriend comes out and hands me the phone
>tell the operator the one I shot isn't responding and the one who hit his head is bleeding out profusely from his head and is writhing around incoherently
>police show up in four minutes
>not just a couple police
>the entire division for this portion of the city pulls up
>medical leaves with the head wound first
>second emt team takes the dead one a few minutes later
>police ask for statements
>"We'll give you a statement with our counsel present."
>sit around for four fucking hours while the crime scene is processed
>sun coming up
>forensics releases the crime scene
>police go
>boyfriend goes to his mothers with the cats while I clean up

The two that survived were charged with murder, breaking and entering and weapons possession charges. The third one I found out was caught running across a field by the helicopter. the one who hit his head was in the hospital for a week.

>>41630518
I always thought that after something like that I'd be the tough guy "sleep-like-a-baby" type and never think about it again.

When he drove off with the cats and I went back inside and stepped over the blood on the carpet I lost it. I collapsed on the kitchen floor and sobbed like a bitch.

I dunno if it was the realization of how close I came to getting shot, killing someone, or what. The thing that kept going through my head was that I could have been taken from my man or he could have gotten taken from me.

It could have gone down so many different ways and I couldn't handle it.

Took me quite a while to process everything and get my head back on straight. And no. I didn't sleep like a baby for a good while.

>>41630563
Maybe I'm not reading your story correctly but why were they charged for murder?

>>41630585
if i'm not mistaken, in some states if someone dies while committing a crime, the survivors are charged with murder.

i'd pull one of my guns out and shoot someone in the face if they came in my house, even if i do live in liberal fucking maryland.

>>41630585
In our jurisdiction if anyone engaged in the commission of a felony crime dies, then all parties committing that crime are charged with that person's death as a Murder charge.

>>41630613
That sounds awful to me, I believe you should be able to defend yourself but goddamn that doesn't sound like freedom to me. The men should be charged for what they did, they broke into your house with weapons.

I really want to understand the reasoning behind it, murder is a serious crime and shouldn't be attached to someone if they didn't kill another man.
Good on you for defending yourself though, I like the idea of white-trash breaking into a gay couple's house thinking they will be easy targets and instantly being blown the fuck out.

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>>41627703
Shoot their ass

>>41630661
>I believe you should be able to defend yourself but goddamn that doesn't sound like freedom to me

It's a common law theory called the "felony murder rule". Essentially that when a person dies directly as a result of the commission of a felony, then all people in commission of that felony are being held responsible for that person's death.

Someone died. Their actions, the commission of a robbery, led directly to someone's death. Whether that death was a victim, an innocent bystander, or the criminal, a person DIED.

Think of it this way.

Two guys go out and rob a house. A homeowner is shot and killed. The criminals are charged with murder along with other charges.

Now two guys go and rob another house. The homeowner shoots and kills one of the robbers. Obviously the homeowner isn't responsible for the death of the criminal, who is? the other robber who helped the deceased.

>>41630674
why do you have ketchup on your pants

>>41630721
I don't care about responsibility I care about what someone physically did.
If that's truly the case I'm a murderer and a rapist because I could have done things to save some of the people closest to me.
I honestly don't know what's up the ass of everyone who is obsessed with the idea that SOMEONE has to be punished, the persons responsible for the death are both the robbers and the shooter but the living robber's only misdeed was burglary.

I understand the logic behind the law, I just don't understand emotions behind it.

>>41630661
It's this crazy concept in which society has created a deterrent for performing illegal activities by attaching a punishment for said action. When people in the community find out that performing said illegal activities results in that punishment they will be less inclined to go through with felonious actions. More punishment means it becomes more of a deterrent.

I'm being facetious here but you get the point. Don't fucking break into someones house, especially with weapons if you don't want to deal with the repercussions and consequences.

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>>41630482
You wouldn't believe what thieves would do to get 'justice'. My grandparents told me that about three young kids (8-12) would go around the neighbourhood offering to help people carry their groceries into their house. They did for this old guy in a wheelchair because he needed the help or something. Two nights later they broke into his house and (somehow) knew where all the valuables were. They ended up stealing his computer or something, the next day the police came around and sent the old guy to prison because of all he child porn on his computer. The kids that stole the computer got off completely free.
-not saying that it's ok to have cp but they should've gotten int a bit of trouble

>>41630772
Still makes absolutely no sense how people can be okay with such a law.
Attaching a punishment to someone who didn't do that crime might deter people from doing lesser crimes but it doesn't even sound like you live in a just society.

Just bothers me how people are so quick to fuck people over, my father was in a car accident years ago and the entire family wanted to have the man who crashed into him be fucked for life. It was his fault but there is no good to come of imprisoning a man if it won't stop him from doing it in the future.

I know recently I heard about a story about a girl that drove a few men to a house where they went in to steal shit. They got shot and she went in for murder, I'm assuming she's not the type of person to kill someone in cold blood so I don't want her in prison for that, I want her in prison for being an accessory to a break-in.

Ramble over, thanks for explaining to me about that law though.

>>41630834
It's a matter of culpability. Who was responsible for them being in a situation in which they could be killed? The home owner or the accomplices? It's undoubtedly the accomplices to the crime, in no way was the homeowner inviting them to have bodily harm inflicted upon themselves. When you think about it from the idea of which parties bear more responsibility for the scenario to come to fruiting it makes more sense. It boils down to would their accomplice been killed unless they had convinced the other party to aid and abet in robbery. And the answer is undoubtedly no. By participating they actively led to the situation in which the person was killed by premeditating and committing a felony. That is in itself just. They created a situation in which they bear the most responsibility for the death of the other party.

>>41630518
Holy shit. Did he get a shot off or anything? Is that why you freaked out? What was the fallout?

>>41627703
Wisconsin here. We have castle law. If anyone forcibly breaks into your home you have the right to shoot them dead.

>>41630911
My best friend killed himself because his girlfriend said she wanted to marry him, he proposed and she said she would never marry him.
Another close friend wanted to hang out but instead I decided to stay home and masturbate, while out he decided to try some hard shit which I would have not allowed him to do, nor would he have tried, if I was there. The result was him overdosing.

There is responsibility that falls on both her shoulders and mine. To me though a "murderer" is someone who kills someone else. Killing someone and having the responsibility of someone's death are different things. If I invite someone to rockclimb with me and they fall I am not a murderer.

Again, I have no idea why people believe that the law should have play in these ambiguous circumstances.

>>41630732
They're crabs you fuck

>>41627703
I have plenty of rifles, shotguns, and pistols, but my glock 19 is my bedside gun so I'd probably use that. Mogadishu drill to all the bad guys involved obviously. Idc if I get put away for it it would look totally badass.

>>41628909
I disagree, maybe they are stealing something that could ruin my life, like my car if that's all I have.
In the end, it should be up to me and not society to decide how much their life is worth, since they violated the NAP.

>>41630732
>>41630991
I also have really bad style :/

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>Year of our lord Jesus Christ + two thousand and seventeen
>not being /fit/,/k/ master race
>not living in a castle doctrine state
>not paint the walls with them via blyat cannon

SHIGGY DIGGY DOO

I want to hear more about gay anon's adventures

>>41630991
FRAT DADDY

>>41630963
At most the actions of the guilty party are reckless so maybe murder shouldn't be the charge, manslaughter for sure though because malice wasn't considered the implicit intention but it still stands that the guilty were more responsible for the death of their peer than the homeowner. Reckless behavior is what the point of this is. The situations you bring up don't bear directly to the outcome. The first was the actions of your friend regardless of influence, in the second you were a non participant not an active part in committing a crime or had pushed for your friend to do harder drugs. You had no duty to act.

That's what makes it different. Your situations you stated unfortunately have no direct bearing on this conversation. In the case of people committing a felony they are directly involved in the situation which brings about the end result. Now it might be different if you were WITH your friend and didn't stop them but you weren't there at all. Is the fiancee a terrible bitch in the first one? Yes. But she didn't actively commit murder or endanger the other individual by stating she no longer had romantic feelings. It's shitty but she isn't any more responsible if any one else commits suicide only if she actively pushed him to suicide through speech or action would she be culpable.

I hope you see a pattern here. Duty of action, direct involvement and culpability are what determines punishment.

>>41630945
>Did he get a shot off or anything?
I honestly didn't think so. I had both hands on the gun and ready to lift. When I saw him there and moving I fired. From the time I was five years old to my mid twenties I did competition shooting including shit like quick draw. We grew up in the country (gun nut family).

I broke down when I got back in the house and saw the blood. Could have been mine or the bf's and I think that's what freaked me out the most was the possibility that I could have lost him.

It turns out that the guy DID get a shot off and I had no idea until I walked back down the hall to get my knife to cut up the carpet and I saw the red arrow and yellow tape on our bedroom door pointing at a bullet hole.

>What was the fallout?
For me? absolutely nothing. Appeared in court as a witness for the prosecution. Asked me
>identify the defendant that I saw
>to recount what happened to the court
>prosecution passes off with no more questions
>defense asks me something along the lines of "You said you removed their weapons and tossed them down the hall"
>"I said I removed HIS gun from HIS waistband while he was incapacitated. The one that I shot I was able to kick the gun down the hall from his hand."
>"At this time we have no more questions your honour but reserve the right to recall the witness."
>"Granted, you may step down Mr Ymous"

>>41627703

I'd shoot them. I have either a handgun or shotgun hidden in every room.

Also my two boxers (dogs) are both 70lb monsters and hate black people.

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>>41627703
Tell that nigger he's about to become the next Trayvon Martin while cocking my assault rifle.

>>41631099
Honestly the biggest hassle was the news.
They kept ringing the door bell and knocking. and interviewing the neighbors for hours on end.

The last news van didn't pull away until like 9pm, I guess trying to wait me out.

Went and stayed with the bf's mother for a week until the neighbors confirmed the news crews had stopped coming around. Then when the D.A. released that they weren't going to charge me the news crews showed up for two more days.

And of course the mother was on tv "day shot muh boi! day shot him, he dint do nuffin to deserve dis he a gud boi"

>>41627703
Are you from Aus? Its so fucking shit here
An elderly bread and breakfest dude had to pay something like 180k to the attacker who broke into his place since he couldn't move his sick wife. He couldnt get his bedridden wife out so he resorted to knocking the attacker out instead.

Anyway, I would reccomend really fucking loud alarms, its really all you can do.
The number of somalians is constantly growing in melb so i'm sure as they get more confident and start the murders laws should change though.

>>41630753
>I don't care about responsibility
then you'll never understand law

>>41631243
>then you'll never understand law
I really don't think I ever will.
If the majority of people are fine with it then I guess I shouldn't get too butthurt about it, but I'm never going to be able to comprehend the obsession with punishment people have.

>>41631175
were they black?

Also, good for you, to be able to defend yourself and loved ones. I'm kinda scared that I might freeze and be useless in a situation like this.

>>41631175
typical dindu lmao

>>41628677

Why?

>>41630753
>people shouldnt be held responsible for things they knowingly cause and risks they take which will affect others.
Are you a girl?

>>41631481
depending on where you are it can, In court, give them a basis to kill you and claim self defence.
Just like you never draw unless you're going to shoot, and you never shoot unless you're shooting to kill.

>>41627809
t.europoor

>>41627703
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wAkCLpMtjlM

>>41627703
Kill him, Castle Doctrine allows me.

>>41631657
The killed thief was a consenting adult that full well knew the risks involved in breaking into a house, I really don't think the other thief should be held accountable for his actions. If a thief walks into a house and the homeowner dies from a heartattack due to stress, sure, it wasn't purposeful but it was not only his fault but the homeowner didn't consent to this shit.
The other thief risked his life and died, I don't think he can blame his death on his accomplice.

>>41631689
>bawgler
already lost, is this an american thing?

>>41631434
>were they black?

>>bf in the bedroom screaming like a bitch
>>stand there with gun at the ready and tell him to call 911
>>turn the lights on
>>go figure, they didn't do anything wrong
>they didn't do anything wrong

>>41631657
>>41631698
I should add after all this that it's not that I don't think the thief should get in trouble, it's that the punishment isn't right. There has to be a better way to handle this then slapping "murder" on it, a lesser degree or something.

>>41631713
weak librul detected

>>41631013
>I should decide if a life is worth a car
, no.

>>41631704
that's just how katana masters talk

>>41630753
Fuck off euro, break into an americans house and you get hit with whatever he has to defend his life his families life and his property.

A mans house is his castle, how do you europeans not get that shit if you fucking invented castles.

And yes there is always someone at fault, if you are involved in a car crash the police, all police will refer to it as a collision not an "accident", "accident" implies no one was at fault and someone is always at fault.

>>41629267
This

>>41630963
Apples to oranges m8, get your appeal to emotions outta here. If you supposedly get the logic behind it then why are you arguing, your feelings don't have anything to do with laws neither do your anecdotes about inviting people or people doing things to themselves. There is a world of difference between what we're discussing and the shit you're trying to bring into it.

>>41628386
Thank god my parents left that socialist shit hole. Even though I live thousands of miles away, I still have a strong attachement to my motherland. However, I will never go back until the socialists and kebabs have been outsed from power.

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>>41627703
I think you know

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I live in Texas, we have a traditional way of sorting out intruders much as my other countrymen do (except many cuck states)

>>41630661
>I really want to understand the reasoning behind it, murder is a serious crime and shouldn't be attached to someone if they didn't kill another man.

what trouble is there in understanding this?

>commit crime
>you are part of the crime being committed
>someone dies
>the crime you committed led to someone dying

guess you live in one of those countries where within the next few years isis will sweep through a small town and kill every single resident since they are all unarmed, even the police.

>>41628909

>stealing doesn't make killing acceptable
>a thief breaking into your house is not necessarily a threat to your person
>not necessarily

Giving an unlawful, malicious intruder the benefit of the doubt that they *may* not be prepared to kill in a "burglary gone wrong" is a great way to end up dead. Putting the burden on the innocent citizen in their own home to somehow figure out whether or not a burglar is *really* all that dangerous while making split-second decisions that can determine whether they and their family members live or die is unreasonable to the point of being totally outrageous.

It is reasonable to get a little more nitty gritty about when police can or cannot use deadly force in the field because they are supposed to have specialized training and experience in dealing with violent situations. They signed up for it and the onus is on them to be prepared for it. The same cannot be said of innocent civilians in their own homes; they did not sign up to have the place where they and their families sleep at night intruded into by people with bad intentions, and *they* deserve all the benefit of the doubt in the world when making decisions about defending themselves, *not* the criminals breaking into their homes.

Castle doctrine is the ONLY answer that makes any sense at all, and can even accommodate concerns about situations where a thief is clearly retreating. Anything less is limp-wristed apologetics for criminal scum. Don't want to get shot? Don't go breaking into people's fucking houses.

>>41632625
The only reason people have these perspectives today is the molly-coddled modern world we live in, where most people are so dissociated from the idea of threat that they can't even envision it.

Circa 1917:
>Man A: I found the den of the thieves who've been going around, breaking into our homes!
>Man B: Say no more.
>Man C: Let's go.
>Man D: Ready the lanterns.
>Men E-H, etc: *gun cocking sound*

In parts of the world that are poor today, here is something you can do: You can accuse someone of being a thief, and then everyone kills them and goes about their business. There is no "judiciary". This is how much thieves are hated in places where scarcity, starvation, DANGER, exists.

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>>41627703
>What would you do if someone broke into your house?
I'd rape them. I'm so horny.

>>41628433
>>41628386
>>41628346
all western european cuck countries are like that.
unbelievable.

>>41627703
Shoot him, then call the cops.

Yell that I'm going to shoot him if he continues, while calling the cops.

In my country it's perfectly acceptable to kill home intruders. In my state it's actively encouraged, and there are laws enacted to extend that privilege to your car, tent, etc and to protect you from civil suit from the home intruder's family/friends after the fact.

Shoot and hopefully kill them.

I grew up in the ghetto so I don't fuck around with burglars. I was on-edge most of my childhood because I feared the robbers would come back a second time and murder me.

>>41627703
Kill this fucker and hide body

>>41627703

Shoot him dead if he is black, if hes white tell him to get the fuck out of my house.

>>41627703
>you could go to jail if you hurt the burglar
where the heck do live?
I'm in a 3rd world country and even here the victim has a presumption of self-defense if the burglar entered the house in unusual way at night and the burden of proof is on the burglar to negate that case.

Also self-defense has a fixed set of conditions and it seems that your country has lots of them for it to take it in consideration

>>41627703
That's cause your country is full of cucks OP, and now doubt one of the ones being taken over by filthy muslim sandniggers right now for that very reason. I live in America. I literally have a wardrobe with nothing but rifles in it. If someone broke into my house I would be congratulated for fucking killing them, and you can bet that I goddamn would.

>>41630613
Probabilistic intent of the accomplices m8

>>41632281
Actually live Appalachian American.
Also I never said homeowners shouldn't be able to defend himself, while I don't like the idea of being able to shoot a guy who walks on your property, if someone walks into your house uninvited you have reason they will place harm upon you or your family and should be able to defend yourself.

I'm also not saying they aren't at fault, just I don't think trying someone for a crime they didn't commit is right, they should be tried for a crime that actually specifically states their actions resulted in anothers death, not murder.
I know we could be arguing semantics here but a MURDERER, who deliberately takes another's life in an act not akin to self defense is capable of much more than someone who broke into a house and whose buddy got fucked. There should be distinction and punishment should be very different in my opinion.

>>41632324
>Hey friend do you want to come climb this dangerous rock/break in this guy's house
>Yeah man, but if I fall off the rock/get shot then it's your fault!
Maybe I'm being stupid but I can't wrap my head around why anyone would be okay with this law. I'm also borderline aspie and am incapable of strong negative emotions (or most positive ones for that matter) so I might just not understand the feeling of wanting someone imprisoned for something they deliberately didn't do, I know I'm going to get shit for this but I don't even think accidentally running over someone should make you go to prison, just have heavy ass fines.

>>41630661

It's murder because you helped create an illegal, off-the-rails situation (e.g. a burglary) in which people are always at some risk of dying, and did so with malicious, criminal intent.

No, you do not get to roll up somewhere with a crew of armed robbers and then claim, "But I didn't *want* anybody to get hurt! Honest!" when a gunfight breaks out and people start losing their lives. It's treated as murder because every accomplice is, in fact, responsible for creating that situation, and therefore is responsible for any dying that happens in it. It IS murder.

Serious criminals are not entitled to benefit from some kind of good-faith belief that their crime was just going to go smoothly and that nobody would actually end up getting hurt. Committing felonies is not a fucking game.

>>41633283
Someone who made an off-the-rails situation that could risk the death of someone, and then did cause the death of someone, should be severely punished.
Punishing a person for doing this heinous act as severely as someone who actually holds a gun and deliberately shoots another man in cold blood is absurd to me. They are different mentalities and the latter person is far more dangerous to society.
I'm not disagreeing with the logic that they should have an extra crime tacked on, I'm not disagreeing that the getting another person into a situation like this doesn't make you responsible.

I'm saying that law should distinguish between the two because a shitty thief is far less of a threat than a person who deliberately kills others.

Yerh the uk is like this
Tbh i think i'd keep quiet and hacksaw up the body and bury it in the woods and keep my mouth shut

Fuck trusting our legal system

>>41633335

The felony murder rule applies where the felony committed is inherently dangerous, or is committed in an obviously dangerous manner.

"A shitty thief" is really not so far beneath a deliberate murderer, in terms of culpability, when he's so capricious about creating danger that him and his friends think it's not too big a deal to perform an act like an armed robbery. It's just not clear that they are in fact less guilty than an outright murderer.

Any other situation in which a person recklessly causes death can totally reasonably be charged as manslaughter when enough reckless disregard for the danger being created is found. A felony-murder convict is guilty of the same thing, and more, because they not only knew (or should have known) that they were creating danger, but did so while committing a malicious felony.

>>41633467
Honest question, possible misconnect because I've been pretty sleep deprived through this whole ordeal.
Are we talking about murder in purely a lawful sense or more of the definition most people go by, because people who commit manslaughter aren't usually considered murderer's socially (like a person running over someone with a car accidentally).
Because I agree they should be punished more than general manslaughter, just I think less than pure intentional murder.

>It's just not clear that they are in fact less guilty than an outright murderer.
That's my whole problem really, I understand we need to deter people from committing crimes but I don't like the idea of pinning someone with a crime because they PROBABLY would have been capable, the armed robber may or may not have actually shot someone and we don't know, he should get in trouble all the same but not as much as if he actually DID shoot someone.

Eh I'm not too good with words and I obviously have very little education when it comes to law, so I'm not butthurt from anyone's posts in this thread, I'm genuinely curious why it is such a well accepted thing. Seems like they should be charged with manslaughter+.

>>41631713
The other thief had a weapon and the intention of using it, not to mention breaking into a house in the dead of the night, knowing that the house would be occupied with sleeping people.

Very, very malicious intent. The fact that it went wrong for them doesn't excuse the fact that they broke into the house fully armed and 1 even managed to shoot at the guy defending his house and homofriend.

The dindu got his friend killed, I'll agree the definition of murder is being stretched, but there's no charge out there that adequately lays responsibility on people for involving themselves in criminal activities that end up with people dying. Manslaughter isn't right, it's too lenient a charge for breaking into a house with loaded weapons and getting someone killed, attempted murder isn't right either.

Rather than looking at the definition of the charge, look at the weight of the sentencing. It's treated far more seriously than the other charges. The dindu deserved the harsher sentence.

>>41633617
Completely agree with you then, I was too stupid to think about the weight of the sentencing this whole time. Definitely far more than manslaughter, but didn't attempt murder either.
Nice talk, seriously.
Can I ask if you have an law/social background or are you just far more eloquent than I, I'm a chemist so I'm not really too keen on law like I should.

>>41633661
I'm a med student, but me mum's a criminal lawyer.

>>41633676
Sweet, so you actual hear about this type of stuff.
That'll be me for tonight, going to nod off.
Fun thread.

>>41633693
Yeah, we usually have discussions on the latest headlines and legal dilemmas. Pretty interesting stuff.
Toodles m8

>>41632833
Too many people inviting people into their homes to murder them and claiming burglary

>>41627703
Run away and call the cops.

Whoever invented honor, I hope that person got stuck in his body until the day he died, because honor has caused more suffering than joy.

shoot him on all of his limbs then slowly skin him alive. Commence fucking his skull

Shoot him because I can actually defend my property and life without going to prison :^)

>>41633081
america is the king of the cucks. thanks to your cuckiest generation and their vermin offspring Europe is a clusterfuck.
every president and chancelor is a fucking kike, since the west lost WW2

ohp them into a ceiling fan

>>41630518
what do you mean by date wiht zooey deschannel also are you a faggot.

>>41627703
Jump out the window, call the cops.

I got nothing worth either getting shot for, or all the legal hassle of shooting someone for. Plus my city/neighborhood is lousy with cops, they'll probably arive while the niglet is rummaging through my trash looking for drugs.

>>41629393
>>41629457
This is a problem there is in countries with awful legal system

If someone for example was plain on sight killing my cat in my yard, I would definitely kill the person instantly or try my best to do so. Lets say I do, well, then theres 2 options available. Bury the body, hope for the best or just go to prison and 100% life ruined.

No way Id ever let someone kill / hurt something I love without trying to end them. The legal systems dont punish wrongdoers, only the victims. I sometimes wish american laws applied here haha

>>41629969
>old guy shot kids for nothing

This is the other end of the spectrum, I also dont see how the kids' parents didnt just kill the guy themselves. No reason to not kill him.

>>41633283

>It's murder because you helped create an illegal, off-the-rails situation (e.g. a burglary) in which people are always at some risk of dying

Wouldn't that fall under something like criminal negligence?

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>>41630674
Nice pistol

>>41628522
>moe is /k/
shit ok
2 knives makes complete sense

>>41638578
sounds like your nigger child should not have been trespassing

>>41630674

XYZPDQ

>>41633081
>and you can bet that I goddamn would.
this sounds so american

Keep a chainsaw near your bed. anyone breaks in, don't say anything, just start it.

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Just a FYI after you shoot future rocket scientist D'Shitayvious you are going to trial, and your life is going to be ruined even if are legally in the right.

If you don't have a wife or kids, call the cops, jump out a window.

>>41631195
lmao. Even in germany he could legally shoot the intruder

>>41639970
Not in Texas

>>41638263
>Zooey Deschannal.
She's my fantasy waifu.

>also are you a faggot.
I fuck anyone that will let me put my dick in them, and I'll let anyone put it in me as long as they give me a reach around.

>>41627750
Dogs will be put to sleep if they kill anyone

>>41628346
Every country in Europe basically
Im from there, we have lotta Gypseys in the neighborhood
Resdy to kill a bitch tho

>>41640153
so dont love it

>>41630963
nigger the girl rejecting his wedding ring didnt commit a crime. she was well within her rights to do that.
same for you deciding to jack off at home instead of going out with a friend.

>>41628909
>it's reasonable to shoot only to defend your life, not if just your goods are in danger. a thief breaking into your house is not necessarily a threat to your persona.
people have died and still regularly die to home invasions. assuming that the guy who just broke into your home will just leave you and your family unharmed is recklessness that borders on suicidal tendencies.

>besides, preparing yourself to beat the shit out of an intruder is probably better than carrying a gun with yourself.
you seriously recommend getting into a fucking fistfight with a professional criminal who just broke into your home, who may or may not be armed, and who may or may not have accomplices with him? are you fucking insane?

your whole posts boils down to "well yeah if you let them live they might kill you, but killing them is wrong so dont do it lol"

>>41627703
that person would be retarded because my dogs hate strangers entering the house

>>41638578
>violate the nap like a bitch
>whine like a bitch when someone shoots you for it

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I unironically have a gladius by my bed. I cant own guns in this country but I will remove some barbarian if I must.

>>41630661
>white-trash
You know damn well those were dindus.

Be impressed, honestly. Every entrance into my house is reinforced and the windows are ~7 feet off the ground.