Why are carbohydrates necessary for lifting? Is it so you have

>>41585200
Both.. Take a biology class

>>41585205
>Both

Can you expand on that?

>Take a biology class

I don't see why you have to be so hostile.

They are not necessary.

They are however easy and cheap energy.

>>41585200
During anaerobic exercise a.k.a lifting your muscles use glycogen as their main energy source

>>41585200
>Why are carbohydrates necessary for lifting?
they are not, you can get energy from fat as well. a spoon of sugar is enough for a day for the body to function normally.

t. biologist

>>41585307
>a spoon of sugar is enough for a day for the body to function normally.
I may correct myself, not even that!

>>41585200
>Why are carbohydrates necessary for lifting?

Don't need carbs at all. Fat is the preferred fuel of our body, not carbs.

First, we have very low capacity for storing glucose (600g or 2,000 calories between our liver and our muscles), but a virtually unlimited capability to store energy as fat in adipose tissue. We switch to using fat for energy as soon as our glucose reserves are depleted.

Carbs exist, you can use it, but is not necessary for anything and has no benefits whatsoever.

>>41585200
Both.

>>41585390
Top retard.

>>41585234
kinda this

>>41585259
this basically. Limit on rest days (<1g per lb of bodyweight)

increase consumption based on how many calories you burned in your workout or how intense your workout was (long cardio or long HIIT sessions needs a bit more)

It is the most efficient energy source to convert to glycogen. When your body is placed under the stress of a workout and depletes the glycogen stored in muscle, it will enter a catabolic state and will break down fat and muscle to supply energy to where the body needs it (obviously a very small amount since you're never burning more than 300 calories in an hour of any exercise, and you're most likely not in a fasted state so your body is digesting something and getting more energy ready as you workout).

Having complex carbs in your stomach digesting during a workout would be like having a steady supply of gasoline trickle into your car while you drive it.

>>41585390
/this

although the recomended amount of carbs according to USDA is the minimum amount of glucose that is utilized by the brain per day, your brain can also use ketons from fat like β-hydroxybutyrate (βHB) and acetoacetate (AcAc).

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>>41585390
>digest dietary fat is immediately stored as adipose tissue

NANI???

>>41585390
Production of ATP from carbs requires 80% of the oxygen when compared to fats. That is why carbs are better if you are doing high intensity cardio work, you won't have to breathe as hard.
Body needs a very small amount of carbs to renew cell components etc.
I don't know if carbs or fats are better energy for lifting, where you generally aren't working at maximum oxygen capacity.

>>41585431
not mentioned in the post, your quotes are off retard.

>>41585210
>Why so hostile ?
Shut it, faggot. He gave you good advice.
You won't learn all you need to know about nutrition in a 4chan post.

Use google / look for a nutrition class IRL.

>>41585342
An apple is enough.

>>41585408
>you're never burning more than 300 calories in an hour of any exercise
A calories burned calculator told me I'm burning about 600 cals in my less than one hour running.

What is the consensus on getting carbs from fruits? Good? bad?

Dried peaches are taste fucking awesome, are high in carbs and calories which seems to be good for bulking. What does fit say? yay, nay? (of course there will also be eaten rice, pasta,oats, potatoes and so on)

>>41585718
Fruits are good. Dried fruits are ok-ish.

>>41585633
yeah I meant half an hour, not sure why I said hour

unless you're doing something fucking crazy

>>41585742
Why is that? The goal in mind is eating dried fruits to help reach my daily amounts of carbohydrates for bulking.

>>41585718
>consensus
Do you mean what doctors, nutritionists, and top-athletes believe, or what bros on the internet keep talking about? Fruit are healthy and nutritious, but like everything else, they have their place. As long as your macros are right, fruit are some of the best carb sources around.

>go on keto
>brain fog all the time
>fail PR on all my lifts
>said fuck it
>add 100 g of rice to my dinner
>next day
>feels great
>hit my PR on diddys

Somebody explain, is keto a gimmick?

>>41585759
I'd say mainly because the drying heavily increases the GI of fruits. Then again they're still nutritious and calory dense in that form so pretty good for bulking I'd assume.

>>41585763
>Do you mean what doctors, nutritionists, and top-athletes believe, or what bros on the internet keep talking about?
All of the above.

Reading my comments, does dried fruit have its place in my diet? Or should i prioritize something else over it?

>>41585774
Most diets are gimmicks, deep down you fucking know what you should be eating.

>>41585774
keto doesn't work instantly, you have to wait a couple weeks, or keto just isn't good for exercise. either way there's no reason to eat lots of carbs unless you wanna be a sumo or something

>>41585813
pizza?

>>41585796
Okay, thanks. Why is it bad that they have increased GI?

>>41585459
Lol like anyone on /fit/ ever trusts what a normie nutritionist says. Might as well tell everyone to fuck off and hire a personal trainer instead of giving lifting advice. Might as well just not post if you cant give info, bonehead.

>>41585813
Peeps

>ITT: Broscience

>>41585825
Cause insulin spike, dried fruits are almost like sweets in that regard. Lots of sugar and unlike whole fruits they're metabolised very quickly.

>>41585825
Constant consumption of high GI carbs is usually associated with diabetes and fat gain. High GI carbs are great for replenishing glycogen storages, and providing energy during physical activity. They also cause a spike in insulin production, which helps stop catabolism and helps drive nutrients into the cells.That's why bodybuilders take their whey with dextrose/maltodextrin. Dr. Mike Israetel has a great series on nutritional priorities for body recomp on youtube. He teaches nutrition at university level AND is fucking massive.

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>>41585824
>>41585858
You people are beyond help.

>>41585744
Running burns way more than 600 Cal/hr
I think calories burned per mile is about 0.75 times your body weight in lbs.

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>>41585879
It can't hurt to buy it and eat just one, anon...

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>>41585893
It's a slippery slope anon.

>>41585870
>>41585874
So i could get diabetes or even higher bodyfat percentage if i constantly spiked my blood sugar throughout the day?

Is there anywhere i can read about how to set up daily carb intake for optimal health in a way that someone that is not very knowledgeable about nutrition could understand?

Would it be better if i ate 100g of dried peaches before training and then 100g dried peaches after training as a desert after my dinner? And then rest of the day focus on carbs with slow GI?

Currently doing SS with 4000k cals a day.

Carbohydrates 500 g
50 %
Fat 111 g
25 %
Protein 250 g
25 %

Getting a bit tired of rice, pasta and oats and it would really help me reach 500g of carbs a day with dried fruits.

Dried Peaches (Sulfured, Dried)
Nutrition Facts
Serving Size: 1 cup of halves

Amount Per Serving
Calories from Fat 11
Calories 382

Total Carbohydrate 98.13g 33%
Dietary Fiber 13.1g 52%
Sugars 66.78g
Protein 5.78g

>>41585976
>250g protein
No way in hell you need that much.

>>41585997
I know, but then I'd had to increase the carbs even more if i lowered that.

>>41585459
It's better that he learned from someone who has experience than from someone that just merely studied nutrition

>>41586009
Wow you really have no idea about diet. Too much protein is harmful, more carbs or fats are irrelevant at the same calory level (assuming complex carbs and healthy fats). Go read up before you do something even more stupid and ruin your liver or get insulin resistent.

>>41585976
>So i could get diabetes or even higher bodyfat percentage if i constantly spiked my blood sugar throughout the day?
Yes, but not necessarily. But you can also smoke for 50 years and never get cancer. We're talking about increasing the probability of certain outcomes.

>Would it be better if i ate 100g of dried peaches before training and then 100g dried peaches after training as a desert after my dinner? And then rest of the day focus on carbs with slow GI?
I'd say yes too. That's also in line with both medical and "bro" sciences; keep high GI carbs around your workouts. There's some discussion in the medical and bro communities about the famous post-workout "anabolic window". Dr. Mike suggests that muscle cells do have increased sensitivity to insulin post-workout, which tapers off and returns to basal after about 6 hours.

>>41586059
>250g protein
>too much protein
>young person with healthy kidneys

That's a fine amount. You don't need that much, but it won't hurt wither.

I don't have any idea, but I know that eating some pasta before training or gym = way way less fatigue

>>41585200
>>41585976
>https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3577439/

This should help

fact: way more people on the internet, compared to real life, recommend low carb high fat diets. it's because they're too DYEL to be taken seriously at a gym and they can get away with posting their advice and opinions on the internet without posting their physiques

>>41586083
But for how long will he be healthy if he does bulk cycles like that over a few years? Health is about longevity you don't to hit 35 and have problems of 60 year olds.

>>41585200
They are energy who makes you get the drive to lift. Fat is also energy.

Protein builds muscle.

You need both.

>>41586174
There's no solid evidence that high protein diets are harmful unless you have pre-existing kidney issues. Most issues associated with high protein diets either come from the restriction of other nutrients, or poor choices of protein sources (too much red meat, too many eggs...). Besides, if OP's consuming a lot of vegetable or low-quality protein, his real absorption may be much lower than the 250g that are just present in the food.

>http://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/nutrition-and-healthy-eating/expert-answers/high-protein-diets/faq-20058207

>https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15558517

>http://advances.nutrition.org/content/6/3/260.full

>>41585210
Carbs pump glycogen into your muscles. This gives your muscles the power to lift heavy shit. Lifting depletes glycogen, so you need carbs after your work out to replenish.

>>41586232
Those links are pretty inconclusive though. Might not be a problem for some, might be for others even without kidney issues. In general it's not a good idea to eat excessive amount of protein. No benefit, potential risks and you usually have to go out of your way to eat that much anyway so just don't.

>>41586128
tldr?

>>41586287
I agree that aiming for that much is unnecessary, but it OP doesn't plan on eating like that half the year for the next 30 years, I don't see why not. I mean, I also wouldn't recommend bulking on 4000kcal unless you're very young (in high school, basically), or very active.

>>41585718
>What is the consensus on getting carbs from fruits? Good? bad?

good since carbs in fruit are fiber and you shit them out, the rest is miniscule sugar.

>>41585874
>Dr. Mike Israetel has a great series on nutritional priorities for body recomp on youtube.

How can I trust someone called Israel?

>>41585774
You weren't getting enough potassium and magnesium. Try eating more leafy greens and add a multi-vitamin to your diet. Also could be low sodium. Drinking chicken or beef broth 1 or 2 times a day or even adding salt to some of your dishes helps. Also water.
Don't blame keto, blame yourself for not doing keto right.

>>41587618
thanks for the laugh

>>41587625
Wow. Good one bro. Keto B T F O.

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>>41587618
>instead of eating a potato once a day, just be a big retarded faggot that eats 10 servings of kale and drinks 2 cups of chicken broth every day lmfao carbs are bad reddit said so muh ketosis muh fatburn

>>41587647
it was btfo the moment you implied you need to pay close attention to micronutrients to even function normally on keto

>Keto is bad
>Carbs are bad
>Keto is good
>Carbs are good
>The human body, the most complex machine in existence, responds the exact same to all diets and performance with no variation across all different populations regardless of difference in lifestyle, genetics, environment.
>People won't have different results

>>41587690
Not normally necessary on keto, but when dealing with "brain fog" or low energy, it's usually a sign of lacking in certain micronutrients. I gave advice on remedying the situation.

>>41587668
a d d i c t e d (to carbs)

>>41587716
if you think it's low magnesium or potassium and not low glucose that normally gives people brain fog you're beyond saving

>>41587763
I know, because I lived it. I lost over 150lbs on a ketogenic diet.

>>41587788
Yeah it's something you can try to lose weight if you're like 25% + bodyfat. If you're already pretty low and fit it's stupid.

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>>41587788
you would lose 150lbs on a normal diet with the same caloric restrictions and you'd have more energy to workout and wouldn't have to guzzle chicken broth and a pound of kale everyday

>>41585801
dried fruits can be great

'can' because sometimes they pick unripe fruits and lay them in syrup to sweeten them

>>41587788
you didn't need to say you're a skinnyfat, former obese/overweight person. literally all ketofags are like that
and that's the fucking problem with keto and its advocates. let people who look like they lift give diet advice, please

>>41587709
>le everyone is different meme
hello special snowflake

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its kinda funny that people are shittalking carbs on a forum centered around getting jacked

Carbs are protein sparing and trigger one of the most anabolic hormones in the body; insulin (bodybuilders literally inject this lmao)

>>41587788

The fact that you had over 150 pounds to lose says it all about the kind of people who preach keto.

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>>41587823

>>41587837
Insulin does not trigger anabolism. It is strongly catabolist. It has a positive effect on protein synthesis balance, but don't think more insulin mean more muscle.

>>41587857
>Insulin does not trigger anabolism. It is strongly catabolist. It has a positive effect on protein synthesis balance
what the fuck am I reading

>>41587857
you are literally retarded

What is with these infinite threads about any approach to diet that isn't CICO or "Balanced Diet 12 servings of grains a day 3 glasses of milk" and the levels of buttblast in them?
Experiment with your bodies, see how they react to different stimuli!

>>41587857
Wat
a
t

I mean are you just trolling or are you literally retarded? 7/10 in case it's the former.

Does anyone lift fasted ? I actually feel stronger if I dont eat before lifting.I know theres a correlation with insulin rise and test dropping so I think it benefits not eating before lifting but I love to carb backload feels good man


I think if you have alot of fat you should utilize that for energy so eating low to no carbs would be better.

>>41587920

>I think if you have alot of fat you should utilize that for energy so eating low to no carbs would be better.

Why would the carbs be a factor? You mean low calories?

>>41587920
>I think if you have alot of fat you should utilize that for energy so eating low to no carbs would be better.
you cant actually use fat to fuel lifting though, or anything that is remotely intense

if you lift fasted you probally should keep the reps low(relatively) and rest times long

>>41587920
For the past 2 years other than a 3 month window from November until February this past winter I do IMF only eating between 14:00 and 20:00. I do cardio and lift around 12:00. Only very very rarely have I ever just felt out of it. Light-headedness once in a blue moon, and usually because I didn't have enough salt. I have extremely low blood-pressure and a low resting heart rate at that too so I need to crank up my salt intake.
Anyways, I'm sitting around 14%bf or so, IMF has been fucking great, I feel amazing every day, and I usually get super tired about 20-30m after eating around 2, get sluggish etc. Especially if the meal is carb heavy (Genuinely not even saying this just for bait, just my experience)

>>41587940

How would your body not use fat for energy when lifting esp when fasted lifting? Your body wont breakdown muscle for fuel especially when youre using it

>>41587925


Cutting carbs will get you imto ketosis.You dont have to do keto just any general low carb

>>41587973

>Cutting carbs will get you imto ketosis.

So?

>>41587945
Low blood pressure and RHR are usually good things though, mine are pretty low too but even lower would probably be even better.

If you don't eat for some time and deplete your blood sugar / glycogen and then eat a big meal it's pretty common to get tired because your body will prioritize digestion to restore energy. I'm sluggishly cutting at the moment and when I eat very little over the entire day but then a big meal in the evening I usually get hella tired half an hour after that too.

>>41587980

Thats what the post was saying cut carbs to force your body to use your own fat for fuel.You dont need carbs and yes fat can be used for lifting weights but it takes a bit for your body to get used to

>>41587993

What is the meal you eat?

>>41588000

>Thats what the post was saying cut carbs to force your body to use your own fat for fuel.

But why are you saying carbs instead of calories? You mean cut calories to burn body fat

>>41588013
because ketotards think that just because you eat a lot of fat that automaticly means that you burn bodyfat too regardless of total calories lmao

>>41585976

people on this board still have no idea what the fuck fiber is and what the fuck it does. Btw meat spikes your insulin just as much as pure refined sugar.

>>41588013

Well I guess technically when you cut carbs I guess your cutting cals to.

>>41588004
For me it's the opposite, my diet is pretty high in carbs so I get especially tired if I cook with more fat than usual. Like using some butter to fry and then cream for a sauce, that has me sleep in about 20 minutes. But as you also said only on days I ate very little before. That's why I dislike intermittent fasting.

>>41587993
>>41588004

The time I really noticed how tired I got was your standard chicken-potatoes-broccoli with salt and olive oil because from my experience, looked to be a pretty standard "rounded meal". Since then I've tapered off my carbs a fair amount, just broke my fast with 3 eggs, 3 strips of bacon, a handful of mushrooms, cheese, and some hot sauce. Feeling great.
I feel compelled to add again that I'm only speaking about my approaches, maybe it doesn't work well for others.

A buddy of mine started on IMF at the same time as me years ago, he couldn't or wouldn't do it, claimed he noticed a couple benefits of being more alert in the mornings but that he was absolutely ravenously hungry by about 11:00/12:00.

Many times, I'm not even hungry at 14:00, I just kinda figure well, about time to eat something I guess.

Take the middle ground, eat just enough carbs that you aren't in keto. Problem solved.

>>41588013

Yeah you lose fat when you cut calories but reducing carb intake forces your body to use its fat for fuel.

I'm risking it all here BUT! I figure after 2 years, my system has pretty well adapted to being primarily fat-burning (both dietary, and body)
I may hit some kind of wall in another few months, another few years, don't know. For now, it's working wonders for me though. If I crash, I'll change up my diet without being a zealot for high-fat-low-carb. Simple as that.

>>41588075

>you lose fat when you cut calories but reducing carb intake forces your body to use its fat for fuel.

The fuck are you talking about? You use body fat as energy when you don't eat enough energy in calories as your body uses. That happens whether you eat carbs, fat, protein, or ethanol. If you're cutting carbs, whatever else you eat is going to be used for fuel before body fat is. If you're eating at a calorie deficit, your body will tap into into body fat stores to make up the difference.

>>41588075
But if you eat normally at the same caloric restriction you will lose exactly as much weight, as has been shown in literally every study that adjusted for calories. Keto is not a shortcut.

>>41588102

Thats what the posts say bro

>>41588106

Thats true im sure you heard of psmf diet you basically eat pure protein no carbs and below 1000 cals every study theyve done people have actually lost pure bodyfat and have actually gained muscle.

>>41588163
High protein has already been addressed this thread. It's potenially very dangerous and has little benefits, only that it might be easier to do because protein is really sating.

>>41587857
>>41587864
>>41587875
>>41587886

I meant strongly anticatabolic.
It only prevent the breakdown of protein synthesis. Insulin in itself is not anabolic.

Imagine that your body every day both destroy and synthetise muscle every day.

More synthesis than destruction leads to muscle growth and the same goes the other way.

Insulin will only help you lower the amount of muscle that is destroyed, but will not in itself boost muscle synthesis.
If you have a hard time understanding what i mean, or the difference between an anabolic chemical and an anticatabolic chemical, you should read more on the subject.

>>41588273
>Insulin in itself is not anabolic.
W
A
T

I think you should go back to high school.

>>41588180

To much protein is broscience.Its only bad if you already have problems with your kidneys.someone posted it already

>>41588304
And all of the "evidence" was inconclusive. Also how would you even know you are sensitive to that? It might have been a non-issue all of your life but as soon as you change your diet you might fuck yourself. There's a reason basically every diet in existence (except psmf which is shit) focuses on a carb/fat ratio or specific foods that are never high in protein.

>>41588304
Im 160 lbs, why do i have to take 160 g of protein?

What are the effects?

Muscle mass?

>>41585774
Keto is a meme, carbs are not the devil everyone says they are

>>41588364
You should drink bleach for being a namefag.

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>>41585459

question, do you burn carbs or proteins faster?

>>41588336

How is the psmf shit ? Litterally everyone ive read ip online or personally known that has done it has had great results.Do you mean like shit because it cant be sustained kind of diet? It really should only be used for a month tops

>>41586287

>In general it's not a good idea to eat excessive amount of protein

You keep saying this but you've yet to say even one negative thing "excessive" protein conclusively does.

>>41586287

You just piss the excess protein out and besides its only bad of you already have health problems.

>>41588438
What do you mean faster?

>>41588475
If you have a kidney disorder protein can sometimes make the damage happen faster but I'm guessing that's not what he meant.

>>41588510
if you're pissing protein, you're gonna have a bad time.

>>41588336

>And all of the "evidence" was inconclusive

Inconclusive evidence is more compelling than no evidence whatsoever. Someone said high protein was already addressed and is potentially very dangerous but hasn't said a single thing showing why in an otherwise healthy person it could possibly do anything bad.

>>41588525

From what I'm gathering, it's just a huge boogieman that one person in this thread is very adamant about because someone told him and he saw one thing kind of sort of maybe indirectly showing a slight correlation and he took it as 100% fact.

>>41588553
You're right. As long as the glomerulus is intact and healthy, protein isn't going to do shit. It's way more likely that having too little protein will cause issues.

>>41588515
as you move throughout the day do you use up fat from protein or carbs faster?

>>41588510

>you piss excess protein

If you're pissing out protein, you should probably go see a doctor.

>>41588475

I've heard/read that excessive protein can lead to glycogenesis though even that I believe is only extremely rich or pure proteins?
I may be easily proven wrong

>>41588578
Fat from protein? What??

>>41588611
What's wrong with glycogenesis? Your brain, heart and RBCs need glucose to function.

>>41588288
I stand by what i said. Maybe do some research, you will know i was right

>>41588680
Look up any definition of insulin. Even wikipedia works. Inb4 "WIKIPEDIA NEVER COUNTS"

>>41588628
>They can use ketones instead. And the body can manufacture glucose from amino acid.

>INB4 olol muscle loss

>>41588703
Your brain can't solely run on ketons anon.

>>41588703
No one is going to pretend they're brain is functioning at 100% on purely ketones. Even ketosis fags who pretend low-carb diets = pure ketosis know deep down carbs are entering their body in some form.

>>41588611

Glycogenesis is the pathway of converting glucose to glycogen. Did you mean gluconeogenesis? Both are essential to the human body.

Look, an excess of anything can be bad. The point was that the previous poster just kept saying "it's bad it's so dangerous you shouldn't do it" but never gave any kind of specificity of what it could do, any certain threshold or upper limit where protein is 100% for sure just plain bad, and in general just kept changing the goal posts.

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>>41588703

>>41586036
>It's better that he learned from someone who has experience
no its not

>>41585440
neither process is quick enough for anaerobic exercise

your muscles store energy in the form of creatine monophosphate as a reserve source of energy to reduce ADP from ATP during times of need. after that, your body relies on anaerobic metabolism (ie lactic acid fermentation) to produce 2 ATP per glucose molecule. it's inefficient, but enough to get you by in times of crisis.

as for normal metabolism, carbs are broken down through a variety of metabolic processes into glucose, which is the preferred method for short-term energy usage.

the ATP comes in two waves: the first, as mentioned previously, is from anaerobic glycolysis. the majority, though, come from the eventual production of acetyl-CoA, which is used in the citric acid cycle, which in turn generates several reducing equivalents (NADH, FADH2) used in the electron transport chain, where ATP is synthesized in mitochondria.

lipids are far more energy-dense, and so are good for storage, but require a more complicated system of beta-oxidation for breakdown. this breakdown ultimately produces acetyl-CoA (same as glycolysis), which should sound familiar, as it's the same molecule produced from glycolysis.

so, ultimately, both carbs and fats produce acetyl-CoA, which is then used to generate ATP.

Importantly, though, note that once things are broken into acetyl-CoA, it's difficult to reverse the process (energetically speaking). So, since carbohydrates are used in a large number of cellular processes (mainly production of various glycolipids, glycosaminoglycans, extracellular matrix components, and cell/organelle membrane components), they're beneficial in cell synthesis and day-to-day function

Fats, on the other hand, are dense. it's why you get 4 kcals/g from carbs and 9kcals/g from fats. so they're good for long-term energy storage, as well as necessary for cell membrane synthesis

tl;dr - eat a balance of both, but try to emphasize carbs

source: medfag

>>41588841
Plus carbs in their unprocessed natural form, plants, are generally packed with other benefitial nutritents.

To the fucktards worrying about 250g of protein being dangerous :

"What we do know is that super high levels of protein do not, in fact, cause kidney pathologies in otherwise normal functioning kidneys. We also know that it is possible to cause some damage to certain tissues with ammonia toxicity from chronically high (this is a relative term) ammonia AND that ammonia is a waste product of protein metabolism. However, whether or not chronically high levels of dietary protein intake raise ammonia levels to a point where any sort of new tissue damage in an otherwise healthy person is currently unknown ."

Taken from http://www.barbellmedicine.com/584-2/ (which you should read if you are serious about strength training and nutrition)

keto + IF is best diet for cutting. and no contrary to popular belief, you don't need carbohydrates for energy.

>>41589734
But as >>41588841 said there's a good reason it's our prefered short-term fuel.

You also only need a tiny amount of omega-3s and omega-6s, that is not an argument for keto.