Why aren't you water fasting?

got some exams coming up and i want to be able to think clearly til they're over. After that I will fast for 1 week

Day 9 of a 14 day fast here. I'm feeling fantastic

>>41518983
this, along with keto, really looks like a collective effort to make idiots kill themselves by going into it without proper research and/or guidance.

>>41519013
Howso? Please provide evidence to back up your claims.

>>41519013
There are people who shouldn't fast

>The very young
>the very old
>Underweight people

You aren't in that category though. Reap the health rewards bro

>>41519006
What was your starting weight and what are you at now?

>>41518983
Fasting is great but last time I did a 6 day fast and ended up gaining more weight back. Planning a 21 day fast soon

>>41518983
hour 25 of my fast, planned it so i would sleep through the 16-24 hour cravings.

About to go pick up some lite salt and magnesium myself, any brand you recommend?

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>>41519165
It doesn't really matter. I picked up standard lite salt from the market and got pic related for my magnesium. Smart water is also apparently "infused with electrolytes" but it's best to add salt for sure. One serving of lite salt is only 15% of your daily recommended sodium and 10% potassium.

>>41519164
Bruh. Control yourself. Keep it low carb. Don't eat bread / fried shit / soda

Can you stop talking like a retarded /v/ermin? WHAT'S YOUR EXCUSE? WHY AREN'T YOU WATER FASTING?

Why don't you kill yourself, you fucking imbecile?

>>41519013
you know, it helps to have done a little research on the anti- position before you say stupid shit like this, man

>>41519226
It's called motivation. Perhapes you should look up the definition.

>>41519247
I think you should take your own advice, thanks. Clearly the water fasting has made you incapable of forming coherent sentences.

i could google this but i want to hear it from my favorite scooby appreciation board. what is waterfasting and how do you progress through the day being in this diet

>>41519258
I was just joshing around with that response since yours was so rude. Next time I make a /fasting/ general discussion I'll nix the buzzwords -- Thank you for the constructive feedback.
>>41519265
Distract yourself with shit other than eating while nourishing your body with electrolytes / sodium / potassium / magnesium. That's really about it. Also don't exercise use strenuously

>>41518996
Have you done a 1 week fast before

>>41519292
Yeah, didn't mean to be rude. Was a bit triggered after seeing all those "why haven't you hacked your 3DS" threads on /v/, and now another "why haven't you x" thread here. Sorry bro, good luck fasting.

FYI I'm 48 hours into my fast and feel good. Only needed 7 hours of sleep and woke up at 530 am with loads of energy now I don't know what to do with my day lol

I walk 10 or more miles a day.

I would fucking die within a few days of this shit.

>>41519330
No worries man. I haven't been on /v/ in forever, I think I learned that vocabulary from /g/. Also impressed to see that someone on this website apologized lol. You fasting too?

>>41519358
Nah, I workout four times a week and am already on a cut, so I probably won't do a water fast any time soon. Plus, you know, I have a social life to maintain.

When you're on a water fast, which days are the absolute worst in terms of hunger? Does it get easier?

I can't fast for more than 48 hours since I'm already 130 lbs ~12%BF (even have abs veins) and I will get the cold of death and wont be able to leave bed. Generally my feet goes numb, I get scared and eat.

I wonder if having a bit more of fat/muscle helps not felling cold/mega weak. No way caveman was able to cross bad weather or hunt while fasting if they was 12% BF you body just start getting numb and you feel vertiginous.

>>41519385
I have a social life to maintain too, when I go out to eat with my friends I just say I'm not hungry and they never question it. The first 24 hours are tough. I find that if I front load the fast with a week's worth of veggies it's much easier. Plus I'm not taking EC stack for the first time and this is easily my smoothest fast ever

>>41519385
Not him but in a 48 hours fast from 8 to 14 you feel really hungry. After that you completely forget that food exists and get in attention mode. You can't do much anyway because getting physical will make you pass out. You can't do mental work properly (even if you feel alert) because you tire out too quickly. I fasted in the weekends but was forced to stop. I need to study in the weekends and this is a bad mix.

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So for those who do lots of drugs, how do you work in your fasts? And do you feel your body "detoxing" the drugs / at least feel the effects of withdrawals from your DOC while your body resets itself?

I'm talking weed, caffeine, nicotine, alcohol. Personally I'm a speed guy. I feel like it's gonna take a lot of fasting to get the amount of dregs I've done lately out of my system.

>>41519442
I'm guessing the results aren't good. (taking EC stack on a fast)

>>41519442
>I just say I'm not hungry and they never question it
kek, you are incredibly lucky then. My friends would be concerned, or even offended, if I ever said that. Different culture, I guess.
What's an EC stack?

>>41518983
>Nope. You fell for the food Jew. Pic related shows marginal protein loss from fasting (which can easily be regained)
oh boy... you're forgetting that eating replenishes protein loss so even though the body drops the need for it you're not eating so you're losing all of it, also go back to /pol/ with your jew memes

say your body is eating 450 kcal/day but you're eating enough protein then you lose nothing
now say your body is eating 250 kcal/day but you're not eating, you're losing the whole 250 kcal a day

>which can easily be regained
yeah, lets lose muscle for a shortcut... if your goal is to gain muscle then you're taking steps backwards
>Plethora of health and spiritual benefits
???
>sense of smell is more vivid. I appreciate smells now, especially food smells
because your body is deprived of food, you'll be more sensitive to food and food smells
>Mental clarity. I feel less hyper, very calm and focused
because you have less energy you won't be as hyper and your body will try to use as little as it can
>Body weight dropping--i already look better
no shit, you're not eating food

The way this kind of shit gets popular is there's one or two experts that go against what everyone else has already decided is the right thing to do and idiots latch on and spout they have a professional on their side, for this it's dr fung or something, but if you've lived long enough then you've witnessed this same shit many times already
>fasting
>juice cleanse
>vegan (for weight loss, nothing wrong with ethical reasons)
>paleo
>atkins
>keto
>liquid diet
but the thing that is proven on every diet is that consuming a lower amount of calories than your body needs will burn fat, also sugar is bad

>>41519450
yeah, I'm not in school anymore. I graduated a year or two ago and now I'm working and making mobile games. My job is fun. So it's not very mentally stressful
>>41519456
normally I take allergy medicine, I've ceased it completely and my allergies have it seems to return. I also used to take Adderall about once a week or so. The fasted state is a similar State Adderall for me, but I can't imagine it being much easier for you since you're on more drugs and alcohol than I am. Good luck

>>41519474
A few experts? I just linked those studies because they're more readable. Here's a meta analysis comprised of over 112 studies that speak of the benefits (and potential cons) of fasting.

Pros: fights cancer, arthritis, great for weight control, anti inflammatory

>"prolonged fasting their effect on reducing IGF-1, insulin and glucose levels, and increasing IGFBP1 and ketone body levels could generate a protective environment that reduces DNA damage and carcinogenesis, while at the same time creating hostile conditions for tumor and pre-cancerous cells"

>""

In humans, one of the best demonstrations of the beneficial effects of long-term fasting lasting one to 3 weeks is in the treatment of rheumatoid arthritis (RA). In agreement with the results in rodents, there is little doubt that during the period of fasting both inflammation and pain are reduced in RA patients"

>"

most tissues can utilize fatty acids for energy, during prolonged periods of fasting, the brain relies on the ketone bodies β-hydroxybutyrate and acetoacetate in addition to glucose for energy consumption"

Cons: fasting can lead to heart palpitations, nausea, dizziness if you fuck up your nutrients. If you have a muscle wasting disease (like aids or HIV) you shouldn't be fasting.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3946160/

I agree with you, there's loads of misinformation out there about dieting like meme juice fasts, but water fasting isn't one of them.

And the ratio of muscle loss to fat loss is marginal dude, did you ignore my graph? And please provide evidence of your claim that calories in / out is more feasible than fasting. Because my research showed that your body will just adapt to your daily intake on a cut over time and degrade its TDEE. This is why low carb is a good way to stay lean year round.

why are you shilling this shit every day?
>marginal protein loss
kek
>https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4684131/
>chiropractic run facility
this is an interview, not a study
>https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/11147801/
this is so that you don't die from diaphragm atrophy and other wasting diseases, not so that you stay jack3d and swole

let's say i would like to start water fasting. How i do it? i have to start a ketogenic diet to feel less hunger? can i workout during the fast?

>>41519604
Check out the meta analysis I posted a few replies up. It's totally okay for retaining muscle. I'll post a before / after in a few days as well

>>41519616
that isn't a meta analysis, it's a review

>>41519615
OP here. Just do it, pussy.

>>41519615
I've answered all your questions already, read the thread boyo

>>41519616
>>41519622
It also doesn't contain useful comparisons to isocaloric non-fasting diets, nor does it mention protein retention

lets return to your original links:
The present study demonstrates that phenylalanine flux (reflecting proteolysis) increases in healthy young men after 40 h of fasting. Tyrosine flux did not change, presumably because tyrosine flux represents protein breakdown as well as tyrosine appearance from phenylalanine hydroxylation. Our phenylalanine flux results support reports of an increase in leucine flux after 1.25 days of fasting in healthy subjects (9) and an even more pronounced increase after 3 days of fasting (4,41).

or how about a study on alternate day fasting
http://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/article-abstract/2623528

"Alternate-day fasting did not produce superior adherence, weight loss, weight maintenance, or cardioprotection vs daily calorie restriction."

>>41519327
no. When i say one week i mean that'll be the goal. If i need to break fast before then i will. I'm already on keto so my body's pretty adapted for it i think.

>>41519652
Check out this lecture, it answers the questions you presented.

https://youtu.be/tIuj-oMN-Fk

Cliffs:

>Caloric deficits (less calories in than out) are not maintainable in the long term because your metabolism will adapt and lower its TDEE to match your calories in over time.
>Fat loss is more about hormones like insulin and glucose control rather than the simple "eat less, all calories are the same" wives tale
>Fasting utilizes your fat reserves for energy, it's essentially like a faster, more will power cutting sequence

Fasting > caloric deficit because it doesn't lower your metabolism, and you get your results faster. You'll lose a bit more muscle compared to a standard cut, but again, it's marginal.

>>41519705
>Jason Fung
ahahahaha
come on man now I know you're fucking with me

>>41519711
He makes decent points. I'd be interested in your counter arguments

>>41519738
No, he doesn't. Are you brand new to the nutrition field and don't know who he and Gary Taubes are yet?

>>41519567
>did you ignore my graph?
I based my numbers off your graph, you're the one that doesn't seem to understand

>>41519752
Bitch nigger provide evidence against what he's saying instead of hurr durr have u heard of blah blah blah

>>41518996
ironically, fasting improves cognition. i'm not saying it would behoove you to start fasting now, but if you were already used to fasting then it would have helped you in your exams.

>>41519911
I'm not spending time watching your meme video by a nephrologist who believes that you can cure diabetes with a crash diet.

>>41519292
thanks for the rensponse buddy! i saw ur convo with the other dude. makes me feel good we're not too into the whole shitposting stuff like other boards. ya'll alright in my book

>>41519350
If you have enough body fat to be trying to lose fat, then no, you wouldn't.

>>41519939
>implying he's the only doctor who claims that you can cure diabetes with fasting and/or keto

dumbass

>>41519939

It's not curing diabetes. The diet REVERSES the symptoms. Similar to a cancer patient in remission (we all know they're still prolly gonna die of cancer, but we often refer to remission as cured to be nice). Obviously if they binge on skittles after their fast their diabetes will flair up.

1) the calories in and calories out "theory" is irrelevant to fat gain or fat loss, and that carbs and insulin is the reason why people gain weight.

He argues that insulin makes the fat cells soak up energy with no regards to the energy needs of the rest of the body. Due to this the cause/effect is reversed, the reason people "eat too much and move too little" are because fat cells are being greedy and taking away all the energy.

2) Low-carb diets somehow magically bypass the laws of thermodynamics

He argues that carbs/insulin cause metabolic down-regulation and increased appetite, this definitely work within the laws of thermodynamics:

Health experts think that the first law is relevant to why we get fat because they say to themselves and then to us, as the The New York Times did, “Those who consume more calories than they expend in energy will gain weight.” This is true. It has to be. To get fatter and heavier, we have to overeat. We have to consume more calories than we expend. That’s a given. But thermodynamics tells us nothing about why this happens, why we consume more calories than we expend. It only says that if we do, we will get heavier, and if we get heavier, then we did.

>>41520017
No, no he says cured.
>the rest of this shit copy pasted from reddit
jesus christ you shill fuck off

>>41520017
>no longer require exogenous insulin
>diabetes isn't cured

??

>>41520030
>eat low carb and fast
>Never have diabetes symptoms again

It's about as close to cured as they're gonna get in today's climate. You cant deny the reversal of symptoms, and I pasted that argument because I didn't feel like typing to your close minded ass. Your only methods of argument have been personal attacks, not providing evidence of the contrary to my arguments.

>>41520030
And what am I shilling? Fasting? Really? What do I have to gain from that

>>41520017
Uhh... what? Their insulin resistance is reversed through fasting. How is that not a cure?

>>41520059
It is unironically not worth my time as a nutritional scientist to take your arguments seriously. Here's a taste:
>He argues that carbs/insulin cause metabolic down-regulation and increased appetite
Insulin is an anorexigenic hormone, which means it decreases appetite. It is also anabolic as hell, which means that it increases metabolism, not downregulating it.

I'm not going to continue since these are basic points of physiology that you've started off with, so anything further is built on retardation

>>41519463
EC Stack is Ephedrine/caffeine. From my experience you would want to take an aspirin with it as that promotes better blood flow.

Essentially it's just speed, causes your blood to pump faster due to the mix of the two drugs together. You can find ephedrine in broncaide, which you can buy at any Walgreens, albeit having to use human interaction to get it.

Ephedrine is one of the main ingredients in meth or something, so that's why it's somewhat of a controlled substance now.

>>41520094
>Anabolic as hell
>the hormone that literally stores fat if it isn't low

Pick one. Checkmate if I do say so myself.

>>41520211
>Storing fat isn't anabolic
Are you retarded

>>41520216
with respect to weight lifting and body building, is anabolic means related to building up muscle.

Your goals don't include losing fat?

>>41518983
>Dieting herpes left its containment in /fat/ and is now actively trying yo get people killed

I thought I told you to go see a doctor about your asshurt, not get jamal to make it worse

>>41520245
Sasuga anon, we're talking about metabolism. Besides, AKT activation drives mTOR and protein synthesis, especially in muscle.

>>41520259
Blood sugar spikes from carbs will increase your appetite, not the insulin though. The idea is that if you are on a deficit you're going to eventually fuck it up because your metabolism will eventually match your caloric deficit as caloric output. As the line gets closer you're more likely to fuck up and overeat and regain the weight. That's why people don't cut for prolonged periods of time. Fasting is essentially a faster way of cutting because obviously you can't do it for 3 months at a time like a cut. It's also muscle sparing, and if it works for me I don't see a reason not to do it other than missing going to the gym / rock climbing.

>>41520317
>increased blood sugar will increase your appetite
do you even know how malonyl-coa sensing in the hypothalamus works?

>>41520317
>>41520334
No, of course you don't. You've been quoting jason fung of all people.
>It's also muscle sparing
No it isn't. Again, from your own link
The present study demonstrates that phenylalanine flux (reflecting proteolysis) increases in healthy young men after 40 h of fasting.

>>41518983
>not drinking water for 2 days
Are you people fucking stupid?

>>41520371
>>not drinking water for 2 days

Are you fucking stupid?

>>41520412
OP said he's doing a "water fast"
That means not drinking water

>>41520364
It's muscle sparing in the same way you can muscle spare during a cut. There is MARGINAL loss of muscle during week long fasts. You're not gonna lose all your gains.

"In retrospect, the discovery of the malonyl-CoA regulatory system has had an impact far beyond the issue of ketogenesis. The system is active in the hypothalamus, where it contributes to the regulation of food intake, in the heart, where fatty acid oxidation influences the outcome of myocardial infarction, and in the liver, where nonalcoholic steatosis may be diminished by increased fatty acid oxidation, and it is relevant in obesity, where increased mitochondrial function may cause weight loss."

So m-coa regulated fatty acid synthesis?

>>41520364
Not him, but why is Fung not credible?

>>41520422
Nah, water fast is a colloquial term meaning a fast where you're only allowed to drink water & salt for electrolytes / potassium

>>41520435
He's credible, just that he sometimes uses shifty vocabulary that sets off bullshit alarms like "curing" diabetes with fasting, when in reality its just diminishing the symptoms (the user still has diabetes during the fast, just with virtually no symptoms). Check out the video I posted and lemme know your thoughts

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>>41520430
it regulates food intake by shutting it down in response to high blood sugar. not increasing cravings like you claim
>marginal loss of muscle
increased over regular caloric deficit
>>41520435
he and taubes have an interest in selling their books on keto diets. they specifically blame carbohydrates and insulin as the major factors behind weight gain rather than energy imbalance. Thankfully they get BTFO every time they write blog posts (not peer-reviewed articles generally) by actual nutritional science researchers, here's an entertaining one in pic related.
>>41520465
>he's credible
no

>>41520430
>>41520505
anyways I'm out, I don't care what you do to yourself but stop making these gay threads that misrepresent the actual science

>>41520371
Kek

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>>41520505
Please provides links to studies proving your claims.

What do you have to say about this

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/25178568/

"The low-carbohydrate diet was more effective for weight loss and cardiovascular risk factor reduction than the low-fat diet. "

Seems to support those docs.

Do these studies account for water weight loss?

It's another of the "fat dyles with no muscle mass advocate retarded diets based on meaningless studies".

Do you get payed for this?

>ye but look at this STUDY omg
>look its so logical, your body WANTS TO KEEP ITS MUSCLE and thats why it breaks down fat instead
>and look, growth hormone release, meaing you CANNOT LOSE MUSCLE!! HEHE

This meme has to die already, god fucking hell.

>>41519350
Pussy

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>>41520745
This is me after my fast. Wanna say dyel to my face bitch?

alright one more response cause I'm a glutton for punishment
>>41520600
which claims? malonyl-coa suppressing food intake? that's pretty basic at this point
http://www.pnas.org/content/104/49/19285.full.pdf
>what do you have to say about this
"Neither diet included a specific calorie or energy goal."
worthless study

>>41520782
How about the fact that low carb in general proved better results than low fat? Why are you linking me a 6 page study with no context or significant quotes pulled?

>>41520828
You're asking for information on malonyl coa signalling, that paper provides a nice introduction
And the fact that uncontrolled diets differed when you don't control for caloric intake means that low carb is easier to maintain low calories on, not that it has some insulin voodoo going on, which we've known forever

>marginal protein loss

You mean 50% protein loss

>>41520760
Right, I'm sure you did that all with repetitive periods of water fasting.

>>41520505

A medical doctor who specialises in neph & endocrine disorders and sells his books at loss is not credible?

Who exactly is credible?

You?

>>41518983
Do not fucking fast! My grandfather is extremely healthy (ex army, retired cop, lives in NC and tends his small farm with only hand equipment.). He went on a 30 day water fast for religious reasons and lost 75 percent of his hearing. You guys aren't taking anything into account besides body image/muscle/fat. Your organs suffer from not having the fully correct ammount of nutrients (even vitamins aren't good because they're not what we would normally eat, it's garbage shit in a pill). You get psychological effects that will fuck you up to.

This is the only warning I'm going to post.

>>41521036

yeah or maybe it was the fact he's a fuckin senile old man who went deaf because thats want old men do.

how many 20 year olds do you think are goin deaf because they don't eat for a few days?

>>41521036
>grandfather

That was his mistake, its already been determined and said if you are old don't fast

It's just a few retards spamming these threads right. I really don't see the reason though, can't even shill anything.

>>41520999
>sells his books at loss is not credible?
Your reason for believing him is that he's an idiot?

>>41521107

Seems you can't get your angle straight.

Is he a jew shill selling out?

Or is he an idiot because he's selling at loss?

> What is cognitive dissonance?

>>41521122
When did he say that he is not credible because he is a Jew shilling his book?

>what is reading comprehension

It's hard using ones brain while on retarded meme diets right?

>>41521156
>>41520505

Perhaps in the comment I initially replied to.

Little too fast on the keyboard there, big guy ;).

>tfw can't fast because of stress eating.

>>41520505
>man makes money while doing something he believes in

I don't see what the problem is.

>>41521313

Gotta have a way to discredit someone without actually addressing their argument.

It's da 4 chan way.

So you either find a reason why the author is a shill, or you pick 1 'flaw' with the methodology and handwave any research thrown at you.

> Wow n = 180? lmao small study doesn't mean anything.

>>41521186
This is a problem for me too since I'm stressing about my work situation

>>41520505
Wait, isn't Dr. Fung that (intermittent) fasting advocate? Hm.

Anyway yeah why the fuck would any diet focusing on the fat to carbs ratio be objectively superior to another? They all work by creating a deficit, whether that's a deficit on keto or on high carb doesn't matter. There's no shortcut diet.

>>41521390
>They all work by creating a deficit

wrong

>>41521406
Tell me the magical diet that makes you lose weight at or above your TDEE.

>>41521390

Calories in Calories Out is the 'lite' version, the rabbit hole goes significantly deeper and that's where you can start investigating different macros.

Consider it like this,

You know firewood goes in fireplace, firewood burns, and then goes out.

The next level of depth is evaluating at what humidity it burns best, what wood burns best, what ignition fluid works best, etc.

>>41521433
I would tell you. But realistically, are you ever going to stray from your all-semen diet?

>>41519350
What do you do for work? Service industry?

I'm in grad school now, and I sometimes miss my time as a waiter for the social aspect (I like customer service and the place I was at was high class enough to not get the common riff-raff) and alll the cardio. Was biking to and from work (~18 km total) and then 10+ hours a day of walking. Wish I was still in that good of shape.

>>41521448
I'm not talking about strictly CICO, that concept is extremely simplified because there is a ton of depoth to both the in and out part. However in the very end it's still a fundamental truth, if you could 100% accurately measure your energy expenditure and you ate more calories you wouldn't lose weight.

So, once again, please tell me the magic diet that manages to bypass that. Inb4 keto, keto doesn't magically cheat that, it works because of other factors (such as fat and protein being highly sating). You can get fat on a keto "diet" too.

>>41521486
I dont think anyone is saying that you cant get fat on a keto diet dude.

>>41521486

Well, quite easily, if you consider the fact glycogen is going to alter the partitioning of calories .. then you can deduce it's going to alter the % of fat burnt for the caloric deficit.

So logically, any diet that allows glycogen to be depleted/liberated faster is going to be technically more ideal for fat loss; i.e. result in greater fat loss.

It's not significant, but that's an example of a "magic diet that allows you to bypass blahblah".

Hey guys, about to finish my 2 week water fast and carb up with fruits und other healthy stuff.
I would like to do another water fast to lose more fat. Is it okey to do a water fast just after 1
month of my first 2 week water fast or is it dangerous?

2 weeks went really good and I had no problems. Sometimes a little dizzy and weak but once I
got my salt it was fine.

I have to stop my fast after 2 weeks because there is something coming up I need full
concentration and power for.

My second water fast should be around 3-4 weeks.

>>41521579
>Is it okey to do a water fast just after 1
>month of my first 2 week water fast or is it dangerous?

it's fine.

Why not just do PSMF? You get fast fat loss and don't have to worry about protein loss or stuff like that.

>>41521658

There are a myriad of extra health benefits (i.e. not just fat loss) that come from extended fasts.

>>41521530
Well I looked at that picture that was posted earlier where Fung was quoted saying "A ketogenic diet independent of calories causes fat loss". Independent of calories, fucking seriously? Every isocaloric study shows that macros are irrelevant for weight loss.

>>41521531
>but that's an example of a "magic diet that allows you to bypass blahblah".
No it isn't, that's just increasing the caloric deficit by creating a higher energy expenditure. As you said everything works with a deficit, there are ways to increase metabolism but that definitely doesn't count as "bypassing".

>>41518983

Ive trouble on a one day fast. I make it all day till like 5pm when I get really fucking hungry. And no water +15 mins doesnt kill it. It comes and goes but it doesnt give up all night. Only time I have succeeded is to stay the fuck away from food physically so I cant cheat.

>>41521798
what time do you eat dinner the previous day?

>>41518996

Fasting tends to improve thinking on top of avoiding the clouded mind a meal can bring if its anything but vegetables.

>>41519013
I wouldn't recommend a long fast unsupervised but its got benefits. And itll only kill people who are really old young underweight maybe the sick.

Again this is one one two three days im thinking of. Dont do a week without experience planning and some kind of check in with an objective third party who will get your an opinion from outside your brain.

Honestly the loss of short term one day fasts from religion is bad for people. Its good for you to know what your hunger really feels like. Its good to know you can go a bit without. Its good to practice self control. And a big benefit is understanding how clouded your mind can be when food is being digested.

>>41519164

Be prepared for coming off the fast. You need to straight out plan your meals so your hunger doesn't dictate what you put in your body. Lots of vegetables I recommend and then solid healthy meals.

Maybe even come off the fast late in the day so you dont have time to over eat before sleep.

>>41521839
>how clouded your mind can be when food is being digested.
Or how clouded it is when desperately craving food. Those "cognitive improvments" are extremely subjective, it is the other way for me.

>>41519165
>planned it so i would sleep through the 16-24 hour cravings

This is actually a good idea. What did you do eat breakfast and then start the fast? That seems like you are moving the pain though I find fasts difficult unless I start them waking. As in if I eat Ill get hungry again when my stomach is empty.

>>41519474

Just on a common sense approach, fasting makes sense. Your body stores tons of energy as fat. Why in the hell would your body cannibalize itself, over the emergency stored energy? It almost doesn't make any sense to think your body would just chew through the muscle, but keep the stored energy.

>>41521889
Well yeah but it's also common sense that it won't only affect excess fat. There will be some muscle mass. If OPs graph is even remotely accurate, and I highly doubt the rate would be lower, you will burn 60+ grams of protein every day. And on the same page fasting for fat loss will be better the higher your bf% is.

>>41520094

T. Nutritional Scientist

Ok Dr., what schools did you attend to get your PhD as a nutritional scientist?

>>41521936
not all protein is muscle mass.

>>41520760

New studies are pointing to the idea that if you fast heavily the skin will be at least partially reabsorbed.

>>41521969
I'm not that knowledgeable but I'm almost certain there is no "excess protein store", that's why if you eat a high protein diet above the metabolic limit your body will convert it to either fat (fatty acids that are then stored if I remember correctly) or glucose, which is shit on your kidneys.The protein loss from fasting is significante and detrimental, be it muscle mass or not.

>>41522034
>The protein loss from fasting is significante and detrimental, be it muscle mass or not.

no, not really. some of the proteins will be damaged proteins - this in itself is a good reason to fast (look up autophagy) - and the rest will be rebuilt when you start eating again.

>>41521875
If you're craving food past the first 48 hours you're doing it wrong

>>41521936

Which is the better net? You quickly lose 5% body fat, and 1-2% muscle, to regain the muscle in a month, or to lose that fat over 2 months? Fasting doesn't seem like a short cut, because a week of it must be miserable. If you are 20+% body fat, it seems like it would be worth it.

Assuming you've been training for a few months at least, and are already sticking to a nutritional plan.

>>41522034
The fact that everyone like you who puts down fasting either

A. Insults the character of the poster or speaker
B. Talks about how it "just sounds wrong" without providing any evidence / studies on the contrary will only push more people into fasting

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>>41522082
I'm 16% bf reeping benefits. My dieting has hit a personal plateau so this is what I'm doing for a week or so. Pic related is me before there fast started. Getting more shreds per day. My muscle isn't softening or magically vanishing.

>>41522063
>some of the proteins will be damaged proteins
>some
Do you really think there's enough damaged protein in your body to compensate for 60+ grams every day?

>>41522082
Yeah that's what I meant, the higher your bodyfat percentage is the more effective fasting is. I'm already pretty low so I doubt it would be that beneficial for me.

>>41522098
I didn't insult anyone, you can fuck off with your strawman (which, ironically is an insult in this case). That anon argued with "common sense" so I replied with common sense. If I said anything objectively wrong feel free to put your finger on it instead of going for the ad hominem.

>>41522158
>Do you really think there's enough damaged protein in your body to compensate for 60+ grams every day?

why did you ignore the rest of the post?

>>41521833

5 6 I could go later but that 8 hour sleep window is pretty good. I like to start fasts in the morning though because the food roller coaster can get me. Only thing I can think of is eat a breakfast devoid of sugar and even starches. Maybe eggs and some vegetable.

>>41521875

Crave isnt clouded for me. Its distracting but sharp and clear.

>>41522176
Because that's kinda besides the point. Why just not lose it in the first place and use that time to build muscle mass? Being on a deficit doesn't mean you can't get stronger (yes it's less efficient).

I'm not arguing against fasting, it's healthy as fuck but don't claim there is no muscle loss. Just focus on the rebuilding part, I haven't looked at the science but it surely is way way easier than building new muscles.

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>>41522158
Okay, his arguments are backed by the studies posted in this thread. Yours aren't.

>>41522368
OP has already been BTFO by an anon earlier. I mean seriously, even I know that insulin is by befiniton anabolic. If all you know is from a couple of studies and some youtube lectures you have no buisness talking about facts.

And all of this is on a common sense basis. Once again, please point out any major flaws, I'll happily address them. And don't just nitpick semantics. Once again #2 fuck off with your ad hominems.

ive broke my 36 hour fast
fuck that shit, too much commitment
im switching to keto

>>41522397
You still have yet to post a study supporting your stance. I'm asking you to do this because your "common sense" Aka OPINION is worth jack shit. Provide evidence or fuck off

>>41518983
Because if I fast I'll probably slip into a coma during my sleep.
Fasting is only good for people who are either overweight or at a healthy weight.

>>41522421
Can't even word my stance/position/OPINION? ;^)

So if I say "protein is important for muscle growth" I need to throw a dozen studies at you too? Or are you just in general uneducated?

>>41520760
>that nipple
this makes me sick to my stomach

>>41522410
kek please report to the people saying eating 500 calorie deficit is so much harder than fasting

>>41522462
Me too. I'm dying for pepperoni pizza now

>>41522479
>not pepperoni pineapple
Lol, it's like you dont want those calories to be worth it.

Is every other day fasting good?

>>41522533
A good start.

>>41522559
but you get the fasting benefits + you get to eat

>>41522453
>Protein being burned by fasting is a legit problem

It really isn't. It's a wives tale that you've clearly bought into.

Your body has measures which significantly inhibit muscle breakdown during a fasted state.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/11147801/

>>41522569

You don't get the exponentially higher benefits of prolonged fasting if you're doing intermittent fasting.

>>41519013
how exactly do you kill yourself on keto

isn't it just low carbs, get extra sodium and potassium

>>41522588
>provide evidence that the underlying mechanism involves a decrease in muscle protein breakdown
Hm but by how much, it's impossible to reduce it to zero. OPs pic suggests a decrease too (about 50% which really is a lot) but it stabilizes around ~250 kcal/day which is, as I said all the time, still around 62g of protein per day.

>>41522618
>consume way too much protein
>neglect vegetables because CARBS and possibly get a ton of deficiencies
Multivitamins don't cut it health wise.

>>41522647
You just described every lifting diet.

>>41522397
>befiniton

top pip

>>41522647
Most people eat spinach, kale, and avocados and various salads on keto, I thought?

Most vegetables don't have that many carbs

>>41522647
>consume way too much protein
>on a moderate protein diet

>>41522677
Of course people do that, it's a really crucial part of any low-carb diet. Even that meme twinkie diet professor ate broccoli. Just saying that many keto people, especially if they didn't really read up on it are actually afraid of carbs and if you google "broccoli nutrition" it says ~70% carbs.

>>41522684
High fat can be mistaken for "a lot of meat and eggs" and should those be two your main ingredients you will likely consume too much protein. Just talking about potential dangers here.

42 hours in. I don't really want to eat but i need something that tastes good. I had 2 black coffes yesterday but i only had some Nescafe and it sucks.

Any tips? Some people advise bone broth, almost no calories, tastes good and have minerals

>>41523134
I don't think you should have caffeine desu. A side of fasting is heart palpitations and caffeine would only make it worse >>41522623
Okay.. but the rate of fat burned is significantly higher. Please prove to me that fasting is bad for my health and shouldn't be done.

>>41522726
Keto people usually tend to consume way more veggie than your averages heart-conscious normie , the first thing anyone learn when he start doing keto is to start to differentiate carbs & fiber .

>>41522726
>>41523843
But i'm ok with the too much protein part ,

Most of the benefit of fasting come from cutting protein & carbs .

Presence of protein ( especially leucine ) is the main inhibitor of all the good shit of fasting .

PSMF is THE worst single ever diet , fasting is way more muscle sparing and don't fucking transform you into a zombie .

>>41518983
Because I'm not a fat retard looking for a quick fix for my years of sloth and gluttony.

>>41523921
So just a fat retard then

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>>41519421
This nigga climbed everest pretty much naked at low bodyfat so don't underestimate what the human body is capable of

Of all times that a human would excel at hunting would be when they haven't eaten and their fat reserves are dwindling. Test production and HGH jumps massively in these conditions, and the body moves into ketosis so that it can burn its fat. Even at 12% for the average man that's like 10lbs*3500 calories they can burn during the hunt

I'm sure they did this shit all the time our bodies are fucking beastly when not coddled by modern comfort

>>41524075
No no man, you GOTTA eat 6 time a day , and don't miss your proton anabolic windows to maximize muscle gain ;^)

It's astonishing how the fitness industry & supplement sellers Overhyped protein to the max .

>>41524075
Now some 200 pound lard monster is going to go try to climb MT. everest half naked.
Great job.

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>>41520760
Confirmed Water fast is a meme.

Real slick, faggot.

>>41524445
http://pmj.bmj.com/content/49/569/203.short

In 1965, an extremely obese 27-year-old male, weighing in at 456 pounds fasted for 382 days (one year and 17 days) and lost 275.5 pounds.

Suck our collective dicks, turn 360 degrees and gtfo the thread

>>41519474
this guy gets it. fuck these water fasting faggots man

>>41524822
Nah he can't read and you're a retard fatty. If you think you're gonna lose all your gains from a week of fasting you're stupid as fuck and have no idea of what the body you're living in is capable of

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>Water fasting
>Sacrificing literally 20% of your strenght
Pick two

>>41524881
What is muscle memory

>>41524881
Joke's on you, I don't have any muscle under my flab anyway. Aside from on my legs so I can squat my 2plates in flab out of bed in the morning.

I might as well go to nothing and repave my body from scratch.

>>41518983
I thought you could only go without water for 3 days?

>>41521780

No .. re-read what I typed.

>>41524265
About 10 people die per year on Mt Everest. 6 people already this year. Nothing will stop retards from attempting it.

>>41519705
Not true pro bodybuilder robby robinson says hes been eating 2700 calories his entire life and has maintained a great physique and pls dont say >muh roids

>>41525211

> That guys post/study

> Your anecdote.

Related how?

46 hours in. I am energic and in positive mood. I am not hungry. I feel like i can go forever.

I can go but i want to eat. I day dream about what i am going to eat. I want to taste something.

>>41519292

Do you recommend a specific brand of electrolytes?

I heard that some brands fuck up the fasting process and I don't want to screw things up.

>>41525042
It costs like 400.000 to get the permit to climb

>>41526005
Not him, but mixing a table spoon of table salt with a glass of water should do you just fine. Add magnesium and potassium pills too if you feel like fingering your cat
>>41525579
You hit ketosis yet? I'm 36 hours in an just entered it full blown highest level on the keto stick- I had been limiting carbs and worked out this morning for a jump start.

Isn't it incredible, we seem to be addicted to food cravings. I don't feel low energy, and my body has plenty of fat to burn, but whenever I think of any food I can instantly taste it and crave it.

Regardless I feel great

The people talking about losing muscle mass are retards. The whole point of fat stores is so that you have a reserve that you can burn during periods of starvation while sparing your organs and muscle.

You eat a piece of food, and that piece of food becomes your body because your body knows what its doing. To think your body will just fuck itself up for no particular reason when it has fat reserves and a specific adaptation (ketosis) to burn that reserve... You're just so fucking clueless

Don't respond to me btw I really don't care what you are saying and wont read or respond

>>41526166

>fingering your cat

I dont know why but that made me chuckle.

Okay then I will just stick with the salt and water mixing. Right now I weight 70 kg and I just really want to burn the extra fat that I have (my ideal weight when I was a cardio bunny was 60 kg btw I blame the alcohol for that)

I will try this and see how this turns out. Cheers.

>>41518983
>water fast

wot

Is it fair play if I ate stuff like almonds and walnuts from time to time in order to deal with the hunger?

I really want to do and try this but I fear that I might fail if I just drink water.

>>41519013
Hope it works

>>41526758

No, the whole basis of fasting is predicated upon keeping insulin at baseline. Any food will spike insulin, ergo, any food will halt the benefits of fasting.

After 24-48 hours you won't be super hungry, to put in perspective of the hunger that comes at ~24 hours when glycogen empties out & insulin begins to drop out is the worst of it. Basically, hunger has a literal 'physiological peak' at which point it'll steadily decline.

After that, there are no hunger pains at all.

>>41520371
They're calling it "water fast" which implies you're fasting water, but they mean just a regular fast where you don't eat any food and just drink water + vitamins. The name is retarded because they are retarded.

>>41526871

All right then. I will take a leap of faith and tackle this head on.

Is it okay if I fast for 48 hours, then take a break for like 1 day with light meal like fruit, vegetables and the such and then resuming the fast a good idea?

>>41519071
The very old and fat would benefit with doctor supervised extended fasts.

>>41526957

Sure, you really don't need to be doing 28-day fasts or anything.

Really, just 24-48 hours would be amazing for your insulin sensitivity & weight loss.

Once you hit 3-4 days you get into autophagy, remodelling of the immune system, atherosclerosis starts to get broken down, brain shifts further into a ketone based fuel, GH continues to increase reducing LBM lost, neuroprotection, neurogenesis, etc.

There's some cute fluffy benefits of fasting that are starting to emerge as science gets to the balls to -gasp- deprive people of food for a few days! Literally unprecedented! (as long as you pretend the nomadic/tribal era never occured).

Technically, it's anti-cancer because it removes all IGF-1, but that's a default prize because removing all food will do that. It appears it might have the ability to repair telomeres to some extent too, but this is all the new science. It requires further examination.

Basically, the post-asorbative state is all about cell proliferation & propagation. Fasting is all about consolidation & repair.

Too much of either is fucking BAD, however, periods of both are exactly how the body is designed to work. However, because we're post-agrarian we have calorie laden shit at our fingertips 24/7.

We've also been marketed the 3-squares a day approach to diet. Yes, there is 0 science to 3 squares a day, it was literally founded by a marketing team.

Shit like this has existed since we first discovered the native Americans and say how they ate sporadically if not with days of fasting. They didn't do this because they had 0 food, they did it because it's what they felt like doing.

So hence, eating sporadically was labelled 'barbarous' and not fit for noble colonial soldiers! So we regimented our meals 6-12-6.

Now we're ++ chronic diseases these days, and look at that, they're almost all related to overconsumption!

>>41526329
Lite salt is your friend. I'll add roughly a full tablespoon of light salt, and a tablespoon of apple cider vinegar to a gallon jug of water. I'll also take a magnesium supplement throughout the day.
>>41526957
I wouldn't do that, prolonged fasting of three days or more really hits its stride. The benefits are pretty great. If you eat anything above practically 10 calories you'll have to start over again

>>41527096
you wanna source any of that. epecially the one about the marketing team and indians? im really interested in learning more and were you learned all that info from!

>>41527135

In regards to the square meals a day, here's an article from the BBC

> http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-20243692

If you want more information you can just type 3-square meals a day into google and you'll be hit by a myriad of links.

The native American thing is an anecdote from the book: Three Squares: The Invention of the American Meal

> Civilized people ate properly and boundaried their eating, thus differentiating themselves from the animal kingdom, where grazing is the norm.

>>41526871

Any pooping of pants by /fit/ bros? Many youtube videos advise that you are at great danger of dumping a load day 3/4 directly into the undies.

>>41519013
wtf lol Keto is legit.

It literally cures seizures.

>>41518983
>sense of smell is more vivid. I appreciate smells now, especially food smells
>especially food smells

Oh gee I wonder why...


>Body weight dropping--i already look better

Yeah, when you stop ingesting carbohydrates your body uses glycogen (stored carbohydrate) before switching to ketosis. See your own graph as a source.

The average male has around 500g of glycogen available.

Each gram of glycogen stored in your body has 4 grams of water attached to it.

Meaning you've lost nothing, because 2.5kg was water and carbohydrate.

Oh, but it gets better, because your body is oxidizing protein at 250kcal/day, or 62.5g/day, meaning your 5 day water fast cost you 312.5g, or 0.69lbs of muscle. WOOOO!

>>41527670
w e w
e
w

can I also do this while training 6 days a week?

>>41519013
This.

>>41527670

> The only possible source of protein in the body is skeletal muscle!

Mmm ..

> The proteolysis that occurs during fasting is consistently 60g per day!

Mmm ..

> The body either burns pure glycogen or pure fat! Ergo, you've only lost water!

Mmm ..

Yep, this all checks out. Anyway.

>>41518983
>broscience anecdotes from chiropractor
>doctor

Lmfao

>>41527745
>The only possible source of protein in the body is skeletal muscle!

Yeah, who needs their organs anyway. I wanna look like a sick cunt!

>The proteolysis that occurs during fasting is consistently 60g per day!

Literally in your own OP image fuckboy.

>The body either burns pure glycogen or pure fat! Ergo, you've only lost water!

Until you burn through the vast majority of your glycogen, your body won't go into ketosis because the brain still has a steady stream of glucose.

So while you'll burn a few hundred calories of fat a day, the overwhelming majority of the weight is water, the GI being emptied, and muscle breakdown, and the other small portion is fat, probably clocking in at less than a pound.

If you morons want a sort cut just /fraud/. What's the point in this shit?

>>41527779

> Organ protein is what you were referring to!

Uhh .. nope .. guess again.

> It's your image!

Nope not my image, and again, protein loss is not linear. Hint: it scales with something. Go and read up like a good boy.

> Your brain is never in ketosis unless you're glycogen depleted!

Right, so you realise that'd cause you to enter & die in a diabetic coma as soon as your glycogen depleted, right?

No, the body is never burning purely one or the other during a hypocaloric diet. Hint: think of how calories are 'partitioned' (key word) when they're being absorbed .. do you think this could apply to when they're being liberated?

>>41527790
>Uhh .. nope .. guess again.

Chakra. Got it. I like to keep mine balanced, though.

>Go and read up like a good boy.

Yes massa. I know you could give me all of the secrets about this majikal method but that would be too easy for me, and everyone in here. I'll go meditate on it.

>burp derp dipple doo

I haven't once said anything about the body needing to be in ketosis to burn fat, only that until it is, most of the energy being burned is protein and glycogen because you're on a fucking retarded 0 calorie diet.

>>41527832

> When confronted with any sort of logic that extends beyond CALORIES IN-CALORIES OUT the /fitizen/ will fall back onto dank memes.

My advice? Actually, go and read up on stuff before you criticise it.

Tragically, most people who wanna infer/call something 'UNSKIENTIFIC' are usually the least scientific minded people of all.

E.g. Veganism .. I'll never do a vegan diet .. but I've read the studies, watched the keynotes, and reviewed the lectures. I understand what it is, its benefits, its drawbacks, and I have an informed opinion on why I won't do it.

What I'm saying is, go and get informed on a topic before you form your opinion.

I know you'll just reply with another hotmeme diss, but yeah, worth a shot.

Cya.

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>>41527860
you probably use reddit
kill youself plz

>>41528154

k

>>41527860
>>41527790
>>41527745
Not him but you literally haven't said, proven or stated anything yourself. All you do is "lol your wrong go do research" this entire thread.

Not sure if shitpostrer or actually retarded.

>>41528447

Not about to walk somebody through first-year bio.

If you want to research yourself go ahead, the topics are:

> Human Digestion, Metabolism, and Homoeostasis.
> Growth Hormone & Proteolysis.
> Metabolic Pathways.
> Metabolic Response to Starvation.

>>41528504
>lol here are some super general topics
>lol you read up I already know everything and am not going to contribute or refute anything that was said ITT
x
D

At least it's so obvious it's comical, enjoy this last (You).

how exactly are you not getting hunger pains not eating anything at all for more than 24hrs?

>>41528515

> Metabolic Responses to Starvation.

> Super General!

Ok. That's literally the only one you'd need to just type into google, the rest is in response to

> b--but where doez le body get le protonz from if not from SKELEATAL MOSLZ AND DESTROYIN MUH ORJENZ/?z?

That's just fundamental shit you need to go learn yourself.

> but le glykogen!

Again, fundamental shit you need to go learn yourself. Highschool level bio, actually.

> da brain is no ketosis cos da gluecoz n datz all it burns cos gleecorgen xD

Again, fundamental.

> xD enjoy no mooselz cos ur body eats dem

Again, fundamental. But you'll be able to get an idea why this isn't true if you google the first topic.

Otherwise, I don't give a shit if you're not happy with being told do your own research. Tell you what, you paypal me the equivalent of 1 semester of units and I'll gladly hand hold you.

Otherwise, stay black.

>>41528569
what's even the point of this response, you literally said nothing.

>>41528582
Yeah that's what he has been doing this entire thread. I can't even think of any reason other than literal retardation or le ebin troll. Can't really shill anything, can't convince anyone like that and purely disruptive posting.

>>41528525
people assume you'll just get hungrier and hungrier throughout a fast. it's simply not true. the hunger comes in waves and generally gets less intense.

>>41528582

> DURR ITS 2 HARD U TELL ME 2 MANY TINGZ

> Ok, just look at this one topic.

>>41528596

Samefriend? Or phone post? Either way, you went too hard on changing the typing style in regards to capitalising your words but kept the same writing & grammar style.

Also you say literal a lot.

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>>41528634
A B S O L U T E M A D M A N

B

S

O

L

U

T

E

M

A

D

M

A

N

cicolets, they never learn

If water fasting is so great, where are all the before and after pics?

Nice try brainlet

I went through a depressed phase for about a week and a half where I consumed maybe 500 calroies a day and managed to lose like 10 lbs. Think I might go for that again, I've got 15 or so lbs to lose until I can end this godforsaken cut and get back to progressing on my lifts.

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>>41528657
I was about to post the same thing. Are you LITERALLY!11!! me. Funny when retards project their mental confusions onto other people.

>Introduces simplicity into your busy life, unlike other complex diets
>Saves you money!
>Saves you time!
>Trendy and cool
>Available anywhere, no need for preparation
>Improved mental clarity and concentration
>Weight and body fat loss
>Lowered blood insulin and sugar levels
>Reversal of type 2 diabetes
>Increased energy
>Improved fat burning
>Increased growth hormone
>Lowered blood cholesterol
>Prevention of Alzheimer’s disease (potential)
>Longer life (potential)
>Activatation of cellular cleansing (potential) by stimulating autophagy (a discovery that was awarded the 2016 Nobel Prize in medicine)
>Reduction of inflammation

Why aren't you detoxifying and purifying your body, and cleansing it with the power of starvation? Starve yourself, nigga! Rejuvenate your rotting corpse. Fuck cancer. Fuck gains. Fuck food. Starve for life!

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>>41528661
alex jones did a 45 day water fast
>not water fasting in 2017 for optimal gains

>>41527611
Starving cures seizures. Keto is just such a restrictive diet, that people starve while trying to keep it up. You can achieve the same effects not eating anything.

>>41528686
Looks like he got a tan and a belt, maybe did a few pushups before the second picture.
Honestly, I've seen better before-after images with just the lighting changed, the guy wearing better fitting clothes, and doing a quick workout in between them. On the same day, he would look twice as good after.

>>41528686
>45 days of absolute caloric deficit
>hardly looks any different
Nigga should have lost like 50lbs. I'm calling some serious bullshit on that.

>>41528692

underage & offtopic poster

>>41528704
>>41528700
are u fucking faggots retarded? i literally trolled you so hard lmao. it was some ad alex jones ran for super male vitality you idiot. its supposed to be a joke. you peoplw literally will believe anything "yo alex jones did a water fast" "OH MAN IM ON IT WEW!!!!"

>>41528724
bro i fucking keked
>see you later me

bro what does london mean? im from chicago and actually 21

>>41528725
>no capitalization
>"i literally trolled you so hard lmao"
>"you peoplw literally will believe anything"
Global Rule 2. You will immediately cease and not continue to access the site if you are under the age of 18.

>>41528727
It's a stupid gay meme, I think it started with some anon asking a trap if she lived in London.

>these idiots literally consuming nothing but water and salt
>These idiots bothering to argue why it's bad

/fit/ really has gone downhill

>>41528746
Fasting could just be skipping breakfast though.
You have two big meals at 2 PM and 8 PM, and a snack in between, and only drink water at other times.

>>41528756
>>41528786
wat

>>41528793
I remembered the last time I used 24 hour time, I got several autists calling me a tryhard poser or something.

>>41528686
>this is the best arguments fasters have

lmFao

>>41528844
therePUTIN FLOURIDE IN THE WATER ITS MAKIN THE FRIGGEN FROGS GAY

Is it safe for me to fast for 5 days,break the fast for 2 days and then repeat?
I once did 7 day but felt intense pains and aches,especially in my heart and chest region.
I think water fasting is amazing,it gives you clarity,heightened senses and for the first time in my life I could smell and sense food so intensely,it was amazing just sniffing different foods because of their smell

>>41528979
yeah. on the 'fasting talk' podcast, they've been talking about how the 5-2 protocol has been getting popular among jason fung's patients recently.

>>41528979
You should fast for 2 days, break for 5 days.
Not eating for more than 80 hours will have harmful effects on you. If you exercise, this number goes down, but 2 days should be safe still.

>>41529037
>Not eating for more than 80 hours will have harmful effects on you
Cite source or shut up
>>41528999
>5-2
He means 2-5

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>>41521889
>I haven't eaten in 4 days, I have all this muscle that isn't doing very much, why don't I burn that so I get extra fuel AND lower my energy needs at the same time

>>41519013
unless youre 8%< bf youre not really at any risks if its short term

>>41528676
>>41528657
>>41528727

> all this effort to make a big show n spam pointless posts n make it look like you're not the same person
> every post > 1 minute apart.
> no screenshot.

lol

>>41529644

All this muscle we devoted all these resources to build in order to adapt to physical stress .. you're right .. lets pull all this down instead of tapping the stores of fat .. that exist solely .. to be used in famine.

>>41527860
All you've read is the sticky, faggot

Why is it literally impossible for people on /fit/ to fuck off from a thread they aren't interested in? Every thread just becomes a massive argument, get a life other than looking for internet arguments you fucking losers: You're the reason the board is so shit and only r9k tier threads survive

>>41529687
Yeah I guess you could work out around the clock to minimize this muscle loss. You know, kinda sorta how our ancestors lived. Not trying to fool your body with an hour of artificially inflated exertion every other day.

>>41529644
>I havent eaten in 4 days why don't I burn up this fat I stored away SPECIFICALLY FOR THIS SITUATION

DO YOU EVEN HAVE A FUCKING BRAIN?

>>41529719

You're right, we need to spend more starved and jogging because according to you .. that's .. muscle sparing ..?

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>>41529725
>I haven't eaten in 17 days, wish I still had some of that fat left that I recklessly burned through with unnecessarily high BMR

>>41529719
The body minimizes the muscle loss by itself you dipshit. HGH production jumps 2000% and the body shifts to ketosis to burn fat stores, both of which are proven beyond a doubt in scientific studies and are both proven to be mechanisms designed to spare lean body tissue.

God damn you people are fucking retarded it's like you have to be spoonfed the fact that your body is smarter than your intellect

>>41529762

See: >>41529687

>>41529762
>Good thing I still have all of this muscle left after burning the fat, and as a last case scenario can now switch to using it for fuel

Body fat is stored; there is no such storage mechanism for protein. Which implies, for anyone with half a brain, that the body is adapted to burning fat and preserving muscle (protein) when it has no food

It's really hard to simplify this further man, you either get or you're stupid

>>41529776
You don't live under physical stress.

>80 posters
>253 replies
Busy day, op? Shilled your meme as hard as you could but you're too easily btfo. Sorry!

>>41529806

> What is the adaptation that results in muscle being built?

>>41529806
That has nothing to do with where your body pulls nutrition from. Once you enter ketosis fat stores become the preferred source of fuel and lean mass is spared

Could you shut the fuck up already if you have nothing of worth to say?

>>41529822
That happens at the time of excess if you recall.

>>41529835

Again, think.

> What is the adaptation that results in muscle being built?

>>41529822
>>41529828
>>41529835
>counter still at 80 posters
>3 posts one minute apart
Op you are one sad faggot lmao talking to yourself in this thread like people stick up for you lmao

Today is day one for me, my fellow niggers. Wish me luck.

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>>41529847

>>41529822
>>41529776
Believe me don't start another one of these threads unless you enjoy arguing

/fit/ is garbage these days for basic fitness, let alone advanced topics. If you tell them anything that isn't in the sticky they will attack you. 80% of the board doesn't exercise, and 90% of the people that do look like shit

Shitpost here, nothing else. You're wasting your time

>>41529844
Caloric surplus and exercise, what's your point?

>>41529861

> All this muscle we devoted all these resources to build in order to adapt to physical stress .. you're right .. lets pull all this down instead of tapping the stores of fat .. that exist solely .. to be used in famine.

> You don't live under physical stress.

> Caloric surplus and exercise, what's your point?

> Caloric surplus and exercise

> and exercise

> exercise

>>41529874
>all this muscle that we built up during the fat years that isn't actively and continuously used right now is using up precious energy that has suddenly become scarce

>>41529900

> All this muscle we devoted all these resources to build in order to adapt to physical stress .. you're right .. lets pull all this down instead of tapping the stores of fat .. that exist solely .. to be used in famine.

> I built all this city infrastructure, power, water, lights .. but the budget is slipping .. should I trim the fat out of those luxury government employee apartments ..or should I tear down all the water & power ..

>>41529933
So you be saying muscle loss on a cut doesn't happen?

>>41529900

This is obviously not how the body works, hence why during a low cal diet the body releases its own endogenous hormones to mitigate muscle loss. It's why the body will preferentially go after proteins by catabolism e.g. endothelial cells first before attack any skeletal muscle/organ proper.

It's actively resisting muscle loss, this is why after a prolonged fast (several days) protein catabolism is actually REDUCED as the body scrambles to put a stopcork in the muscle loss via GH.

It's why the body switches into ketosis instead of glycolysis.

I mean surely you understand you're wrong and you're just trolling, right?

>>41529954

It does happen, but it's the last thing the body wants to do. The body does not evaluate it's own LBM with the regard of "if I destroy this I can lower BMR".

It views it through the lens of "If I lose this (LBM) I may die, so I'm going to find a way to avoid it at all cost".

At the point there's no fat left the body will aggressively attack its own protein, but that's end stage starvation .. you're about to die at this stage.

>>41518983
because i can just do IF if i ever wanna cut.

I'm on day 7 of a 7 day fast. Gonna eat tomorrow and then fast again in 4 days time. It's alarming how much extra time you have in a day when you aren't cooking or eating.

>>41529857
This. It's really sad. They defend the sticky like they just joined a cult.

I want to go somewhere else and discuss actual fitness with a little banter but I don't know where to go? I tried the chan but it's too slow, and has flags for some reason so it acts like /int/.

>>41530034
Remember to break the fast with something light though, your body isn't ready for a pizza or whatever. Try having Chinese egg drop soup. Lots of calories and protons but it's light on your stomach.

>>41519292
>Distract yourself with shit other than eating while nourishing your body with electrolytes / sodium / potassium / magnesium. That's really about it. Also don't exercise use strenuously
>>41518983
I continue to advocate the fast mimicking diet. I pretty much still have soup and some fruit on a water fast. Avocado is great.


I haven't seen some of the OP stuff tho.

>>41530088
I think I'm going to start with something light like nuts and then have a small amount of chicken breast with spinach and some avocado.

>>41530261

t b h at only a 7 day fast you're not at any risk of refeed syndrome or realistically any digestive issues.

that said, a heavy vegetable soup like minestrone would be an effective way to deliver a lot of nutrients without risking any g.i upset.

>>41529987
Starving people don't turn into 5% bf greek gods, your body does not work that way unless you have some rare disorder. You do not need all that muscle as far as your body is concerned if you cannot feed it, and it takes more to upkeep than fat stores.

>>41530261
>something light like nuts

No wonder this board is fat.

>>41530306

See: >>41529961

>>41530352
I believe you.

>>41530371

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK22414/

>>41530313
fit, sweetie.

>>41518983
stop spamming this bullshit FFS, some obese faggot could really start poisoning himself to death for summer

dieting is serious business

>>41530371
>BUT FASTING WILL CANNABILIZE MUH BICEPS

>"During starvation, degraded proteins are not replenished and serve as carbon sources for glucose synthesis. Initial sources of protein are those that turn over rapidly, such as proteins of the intestinal epithelium and the secretions of the pancreas. "

The biggest protein loss comes from (safe) secretions from your internal organs, and tapers off as you continue to fast.

>The breakdown of 20 g of muscle daily compared with 75 g early in starvation is most important for survival. A person's survival time is mainly determined by the size of the triacylglycerol depot.
>It takes closer to 20 days of fasting to lose a pound of muscle
>in the mean time easily lose more than 10 times that in fat

>>41530371
>>41530400

No reply, go figure.

>>41530463
>fasting
>poisoning

Choose one, only one. People have fasted for over a year without any negative consequence.

>>41530668
water poisoning.

>>41530668
>People have fasted for over a year without any negative consequence
People like you spreading these bs should be shot tbqh

>>41530681

Shiet, why not go for heavy metal poisoning?

>>41530681
Lol these arguments are getting weaker and weaker.

Do you know how hard it is to get actual water poison?

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1770067/

This elderly lady had to down 2.5 GALLONS of it to die... I'm only consuming 3/4 of a gallon per day as a 25 year old 195lb male.

Next (frivolous) argument?

>>41530694

wot u mean? a guy literally did fast for 1 year.

>>41530694
I'm sorry it's not in your holy sticky but you could've spent 5 seconds googling it and not like a jackass:

http://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/2012/07/24/3549931.htm

>>41530694
How about you do some research before making a retard out of yourself. Yes it sounds too ridiculous to be true but guess what, it is

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2495396/

>>41530681
You don't drink much more water a day when you fast as when you are just maintaining a /fit/ lifestyle.

Thanks for the actual info and sauces, OP

I was planning on taking a break from powerlifting this week anyway, and i think ill do a 4 ot 5 day fast.

How many days do you think is optimal?

>>41518996
I'm on day 6 of waterfast right now and I can tell you that my brain hasn't been more clear and able to think in years.

>>41530760
How much body fat do you have and how much do you want to have? Prolonged fasts typically have amplified effects after 3 days

>>41530695
>>41530716
an obese faggot trying to cope with its addiction and it craving whilst eating nothing not even lettuce because some teenage angsty boy on a chink board for poorly drawn paedophilia told him so could easily drink more than 2 lt water/hour without seeking medical advices nor structuring a reasonable diet with exercise and reasonable caloric deficit.

>>41530731
>>41530729
>fasted under supervision
>weighted 207 kg on admission
closed right there.

>>41530760
Depends on your goal.
I've been doing alternate day fasts (36+ hours) and want to do longer fasts later this week. The fat has been melting off. On the days that I have eaten I've kept it low carb.

Instead of spouting the water fast meme, why haven't anyone posted progression pictures yet?

>>41530782

> an obese faggot trying to cope with its addiction and it craving whilst eating nothing not even lettuce because some teenage angsty boy on a chink board for poorly drawn paedophilia told him so could easily drink more than 2 lt water/hour without seeking medical advices nor structuring a reasonable diet with exercise and reasonable caloric deficit.

learn to read and write cunt, literally incomprehensible, my eyes actually lost focused trying to decipher this garbage.

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>>41530716
>actual water poison
>if you don't die it's not actual

>>41530782
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK22414/

Are you going to read any of these legit studies instead of shitting up the thread? How about presenting evidence AGAINST fasting instead of your silly angry posts?

>>41530804
I`m keeping a diary and will be taking some pics. I`ll report on two weeks.

>>41530782
>fasted under supervision
Yeah, you must consume electrolytes and a multi-vitamin.
>weighted 207 kg on admission
No shit faggot, you can't fast for over a year if you don't have fuel to burn. How else did you think it was possible?!

>closed right there.
Of course you did, you're close-minded as fuck and since we're having an internet-argument, the idea of changing your mind on something will bruise your ego.

Better to just use a coping mechanism instead. The weakness of man's mind is that we'd rather be wrong than change.

>>41530779
Im in low 20s and want to be in low teens, but I'm not too concerned about how fast this happens...i want a stable and sustainable plan

Im thinking 1 week of fasting per 2 weeks bulking. Thoughts?

Also, do yall do cardio when fasting?

>>41530818
Daily recommended consumption of water is 3000 ml a day for healthy males. If you exceed that a bit the only thing that will happen is removal of kidney stones. It's really hard to get water poisoning.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/20356431/

>>41530846
>Im in low 20s and want to be in low teens
same I also wish that I was 13 again

>>41530818
Its clinically considered water poisoning when your urine turns brown due to your blood cells rupturing due to extremely high osmotic pressure

>>41530846
That sounds fine. It's easy to plan, requires hard willpower to execute. I don't do any strenuous exercise while fasting, some walking. That's about it

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This thread:

>the sticky doesn't talk about fasting
>MUST DEDEND THE STICKY AT ALL COSTS!!!

>>41530846
I used to run in the Marines some days on almost no food or sleep. So maybe I'm used to it, but I run a few miles almost every day while fasting.

Just at a lower intensity than I'm used to, if I'm tired I just jogwalk, but I try to get in a solid 6 miles.

>>41530729
>>41530731
He was under constant medical supervision you tards.

>>41530833
>close-minded as fuck
>if you advice to seek medical advice before even considering water fasting you're close-minded
>if you advice to structure your diet reasonably and to balance a reasonable caloric deficit with exercise you're close-minded
>if you advice people NOT TO hop on water fasting to "tone" for summer and lose those 10 kg in 1 month you're close-minded

>internet-argument
>bruise your ego
>y-your a-are coping
>weakness of man's mind

seek medical advice.

>>41530853
That amount could be easily consumed in few hours.
>removal of kidney stones
, no.

>>41530822
nice Biochemistry manual, but it doesn't seem to help your reading comprehension.

>>41530948
What kind of fucking supervision do you need other than dietary.

You have no fucking clue what you're talking about, swallow your pride and admit you're wrong, what the fuck is wrong with you? You man-child.

>>41530973
>What kind of fucking supervision do you need other than dietary.

I don't, know DIETARY? SINCE YOU'RE NOT FUCKING EATING FOR A YEAR?
Are you brain damaged?

>>41530948

> "constant supervision"

> outpatient

> checked in once a month for a blood test.

>>41530965
>if you advice to seek medical advice before even considering water fasting you're close-minded
Sure, see a doctor/nutritionist if you really want to, go ahead, but that can be said of anything in fitness. Most stuff is pretty basic and can be found online.

>if you advice to structure your diet reasonably and to balance a reasonable caloric deficit with exercise you're close-minded

Fasting is not "the one true path", there isn't anything wrong with moderate calorie deficit diet for slower cutting. Besides, calorie deficit is a form of fasting.

>if you advice people NOT TO hop on water fasting to "tone" for summer and lose those 10 kg in 1 month you're close-minded

Nobody said you need to do that, isn't anything wrong with fasting to lose weight, but the benefits of fasting a few times a year are much more than just that.

>doubling down on coping mechanisms
Sad.

>>41530995
Alright mom, what is wrong about a year-long fast if you're severely obese?

Go get a check-up once during a fast and get bloodwork if you're so paranoid.

>>41530965
keto ain't cool enough for kids nowadays

FMD (fast mimicking diet) is a somewhat criticized diet that just MIMICS fasting with an approx. 34% TDEE kcal/day for no more than 5 days, and it should be done under medical approval at least

next stop is breatharianism

>>41531055

i recall the nomads and tribal humans also checked in with their medical doctor before starting a caloric deficit.

>>41531034
>if you really want to,
>but you can do everything on your own
>hey water fasting for prolonged time is not so different from a caloric deficit
recipe for disaster
>b-but I meant fasting "a little" and "sometimes"
...
>projecting is sad
truly.

>>41531072
I'm sure those tribal humans were living past their 30s, right

>>41531055
You should check with your doctor before doing ANY diet, exercise, suplement or drug. Period.

>>41531092

no they all died because their caloric deficit was below 33% of tdee

>>41531092
>I'm sure those tribal humans were living past their 30s, right

Actually yes. Most people died of infections and illnesses they didn't understand (like pneumonia). Healthy people lived about as long as people today.

>>41529609
>He means 2-5
what do you mean? both me and the person i replied to are talking about fasting for 5 days and eating for 2.

>>41531139
Thats wrong, you mean 2-5
a 5-2 is
>The 5:2 Fast Diet protocol is to eat normally five days out of the week and fast for two non-consecutive days
Google it before you tell me im wrong

>>41531137
Who had pneumonia? Some 10,000 year old faggot? Where did you find that out, was his pneumonia sperm dribbling down your dad's chin when you went to make out with him?

>>41531174
You're not wrong but your thang ain't long.

>>41531174
oh you're just being autistic. fine, whatever, 2-5.

>>41531183
?
>>41531186
Nigger im not being autistic its something completely different now calm our autism and be glad you learned something

>>41531194
except i wasn't talking about it in the context of the michael mosley diet you dumbass.