Reminder that if you wanna make it as a natty you need to work

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>>41199992

Yeah it pisses me off. My powerlifting coach says this all the time while making fun of dudes who are in the gym everyday. He trains just twice a week really only doing the main lifts while spending 5 to 10 minutes chatting shit between sets.

The guys he makes fun of are in there daily busting their asses to failure with as much volume as possible.

He is stronger than them by far having some world powerlifting titles. But he's a fat manlet with a huge belly, dyel arms, zero aesthetics, who would repulse most people especially women. The other dudes aren't as strong at the big 3 but are all shredded as fuck as well as swole.

Even as a powerlifter I agree with you. Powerlifting style training is only good for learning the big lifts. When you actually want to look good you need to up the volume to bro split levels.

>>41199992
that's why all manual labor workers look good right

>>41200117

As a middle class oldfag/richfag who spent 10+ years at a desk vs my working class/poorfag bros who spent 10+ years doing manual labour like building or landscaping, yes manual workers do look better physically. They're just poorer.

You can look great as an office worker but need to make sure you are busting your ass in the gym every night. And even then your friends who work as scaffolders, or any general construction will look physically better.

But as a society we don't notice this so much as male attractiveness is as much based on wealth as physical features, which middle class college educated workers tend to have an edge in working class manual workers.

>>41199992
Hi. Newfag to lifting here. So which is it? I keep hearing people say lift only once a week for each body part. How many days and for how long each session should i do chest, arms etc?

i work out 4 times a week no more than 45 minutes at a time

im big trust me (lean too)

Less volume = bigger lifts no?

>>41199992
>Off by 7
Anyway yeah, that is true in my experience too, especially for upper body.
3x5 bench or OHP 3x week and 3xF chinups 2x week just don't cut it.

>>41200112
powerlifter too, see always new ones starting with starting strength/gomad and they fuck themselves up.
Quit after 2 years, because they hurt their backs 3 times in that timeframe and had to start new each time.
Have old athletes in their 60s that squat 180kg for 3-8reps, that only do heavy every 2-3weeks.
If you are not in a really low weightclass, I think bodybuilding+powerlifting is superior to powerlifting or bodybuilding.

>>41200184
both low and high reps will increase strength and force muscle growth. low reps and heavier weight is just better at it since it puts more stress on your muscles.

volume does not interfere with strength gains or recovery as long as you get some rest. this is why compounds + accessories after is pretty much the best thing you can do as a natty. you can do as much accessory work as you want as long as you are recovered for your heavy lifts the next workout.

obviously this is if you are natty and care about maximizing strength and muscle growth. there is no point in lifting at your max every single day because recovery is where muscle growth and strength gains happens, not during workout. so if you aren't recovering you aren't growing and getting as strong as you could. your progress will also be much slower since you will never be fully recovered and at some point you will be forced to take a rest because your fatigue will become much too high.

>>41200190

Yeah that's my attitude. Powerlifting + Bodybuilding together. Big compounds at low volume in the strength range and isolations at high volume in the bodybuilding range has worked best for me.

The guys who only did bodybuilding type high volume work from beginner tend to be dyel, tho aesthetic and ottermode, but take years to build serious mass.

The dudes who only did powerlifting since beginner tend to have extended bellies and be fat as fatasses with no arm development or aesthetic chests.

The dudes who did both look good as well as being strong. But that's just like my anecdotal experience.

>>41200253
It's what I do, I do the 6 day bodybuilder brosplit, but I incorporate powerlifts. Bench circuit for chest day, squats and deadlifts on leg day and deadlifts on back day. Let's me get all my isolation workouts and the compound workouts in one. I'm not a model, but I am definitely a big guy now for doing this.

>>41200163
>I keep hearing people say lift only once a week for each body part.
Twice

If you're a newbie, focus on strength first, do SS, once you have some decent strength levels then you can do PPL and do more volume/isolation

>>41200253
If you only do heavy work, you need more food to progress with lifts(cns fatigue+muscle damage) and you get fat.
Bulking(clean) is only good, whenever you reach a plateu or you get too lean.

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>>41200314
clean bulking is the best method to gain muscle out of them, especially if you always stay within 10-15%

>>41200307

This as a newbie just run whatever beginner barbell routine you can stick with. SS is fine especially with the accessories you're meant to do from week 4.

Just bare in mind once noob linear gains are done you'll need to look at a higher volume more powerbuilding orientated routine or actual bodybuilding routine to look good.

>>41200163
Three if you are a beginner (something like SS + chinups)
Two if intermediate/advanced (531 is best)

>>41200342
531 is horrible for intermediate lifters desu

>>41200163
do twice, one heavy+for the main lift 3 assists+counter movement, for example for Bench:db bench for 3x8-20, military press3x12, tricep pushdown3-4x12-20, rows3x6-12
change the assits for your weaknesses and don't use the same assist for heavy and light day.

>>41199992
>two hours per day six days per week and do a SHITLOAD of volume
>six days

I do 5, am I missing out if I don't do 6? that extra lower day really fucks me up

>>41200344
Why?

>>41200359
A compromise is 5 days a week but more than one leg day like so
PPLPPxx
LPPLPxx
PLPPLxx

>>41200359
Same anon, I've just been doing PPLxPPx girls don't care about legs anyway and one day heavy legs + cardio on other days seems to be enough for me.

>>41200377
>>41200380
I'm doing U/L/U/L/Uxx atm, only just started to adjust to it

>Fasted Cardio 5:30 am (2miles 15 minutes)
>desk job 7-7
>lift 8pm (blast workouts under an hour)
>Fucing your ol'lady by 10
>daily

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I wonder if people realise how confusing all this conflicting information on /fit/ is for beginners.

You get threads like this one preaching high volume, bodybuilding style programs while disparaging powerlifting programs and dismissing powerlifters as overcompensating fatties. Then everyone else on fit starts calling the guys who run these programs weak because their lifts aren't all that impressive despite it not being their goal.

But then you get the people who advocate powerlifting programs saying it's all you need, and they bodybuilders saying it's shit because they look like shit.

So the person would hopefully go with the middle ground and run a strength + bodybuilding program but the progress for either aesthetics or strength will be super slow because you're not really giving either one the attention it deserves. When you do hit respectable numbers you get cunts saying
>I got there within 6 months of training


Just a thought though, just keep training everyone.

>>41200391
Holy shit that's a fuckton of volume
At least you're eating a lot I hope?
>>41200380
>Legs only once a week
Don't you get doms every day?
I'd only do that if i moved deadlifts to pull day, so as to hit legs more often.

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>>41200403
daily reminder that these are the people giving you lifting advice

>>41200403

Yeah everyone has different aims and looks down on people with different aims to themselves. It's stupid really as we're better off helping each other achieve our specific individual aims and should be happy that others want to do different things to ourselves. But like this is a problem with all of humanity and life in general. Not just lifting man.

>>41200426
yeah I'm eating around 4k min a day and gaining half a pound a week currently, seeing very good strength + size gains though was just a rough first couple of months

>>41200444
Mirin tris btw

Ok good for you then

You said the second L day kills you. Maybe that is because you only get 1 rest day between the two L days while you get 4 rest days until next week's L day. Maybe you could try
ULUxLUx

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>>41200437
That's pretty true but on the other side of the coin, I think the process of working through the confusion and finding relevant info for yourself and deciding which program suits your goals yourself has it's own merit.

It's the whole process of sifting through shit information which helps educate people better in what they want to achieve and I think this is a good part about /fit/. It doesn't hold your hand and if you're willing to work you'll be better off for it.

As crappy as the community can be on /fit/ I'm glad it's not a hugbox. You get respect if you earn it and you know you've really earned it because people are anonymous on this site. They have no reason to be nice to you because there's no upvote or karma system bullshit to keep people being polite. But that makes any recognition you gain more real.

>>41200518

All of 4chan is like that all the specialist hobby and interests board have nuggets of gold buried beneath piles of shit (except /pol/ which is shite all the way down).

Sadly as the site ages the quantity of shit to gold gets worse and worse. Outside of /b/ the individual specialist interest boards really knew their shit ten years ago.

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>>41200371
from /plg/, this pretty much encapsulates it

low volume, low frequency, "accessories, the program"

doing a program with like one actual hard heavy set of bench a week will not give you the same effect as a program with like 20 hard sets of bench a week

>>41200342
you dumb fuck SS has chinups in it already
wendlers programs suck ass

>>41200112
Try Sheiko. It's basically bodybuilding while getting tons of submax practice on the main lifts.

>>41199992

So....

You're right.

Compare, say, a gymnasts to an average gym ' powerlifter'

>>41200293

UUUU

>>41200252
>>41200253
>>41200293
You guys restore my faith in this community.
>Power bodybuilding routine is best routine

>>41199992
>full body 3x a week
>works manuel labor job from 8 to 4
>gym sessions last 2
>getting paid to condition work capacity

>>41199992
Bullshit, greg plitt trained hard as fuck and look what happened to him.

>>41200334
those graphs are entirely arbitrary

>>41203701
just look at the last one

>>41200160
this is so fucking retarded, i see differenct mechanics, technicians and labor workers every single day. New faces, new companys, different regions, mainly from germany, but also other european countries (i travel a fucking lot) and fucking none of them are even close to being fit. Literally all the mechanics in my company who work here for 10+ years doing heavy ass work every single day are either completely dyel or fucking fat pieces of shits with beer guts.

What i can say is that, the people working jobs as mentioned above are definetely stronger than office fags. My co workers are dyel or fat, but all of them have surprised me with their strength.

>>41199992
Unrelated question, but is that an attachment for the barbell so he can do rows like that? If so, where can I find? Would be great for home gym.

>>41200252
>>41200253

Volume is the king. Whether you do high reps low weight or high weight low reps, when routines are matched for volume they produce damn near identical results.

>>41200163
>I keep hearing people say lift only once a week for each body part.

You sure as fuck did hear that here. Nobody who's read the sticky would think working a muscle once a week is the most efficient way to get bigger, especially as a natty. You lift to promote protein synthesis in the muscles you work. Your muscles need 36-48 hours to adequately recover from a workout as a natty. That means, optimally, you should be hitting each muscle three times a week, no less than two. A full body routine 3 days a week is best. If you have some muscle already, PPLPPLx works too. A 5 or 6 day brosplit will get you absolutely nowhere as a natty because you will be wasting time that could be spent promoting protein synthesis.

Your workout should be focused on compound lifts, with some accessories as needed. Doing an "arms day" is absolutely pointless when you are pressing and pulling heavy.

>>41199992
youre an idiot and doing it totally backwards. good luck with your injuries

>>41200163
once a week dont listen to the idiots on here. you train more if youre on gear because you recover faster

>>41199992
>2 arms tbar rows with 1,5 plate

fuckign kekk
im a dyel and i tbar row 4 plates with 1 arm

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>>41204511
wrong as fuck, get your science right imbecile


>not lifting AT LEAST once daily
none of you are going to make it

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>>41204533
Rrriiiggghhhttt
you wanna post some footy of your feats?

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>>41204645
>implying this is any hard if you cheat a bit

>>41204548
this fucker does 7 plate tbar row with 1 arm and like 11plate row with 2

>>41199992
But that guy is skeleton mode?

>>41200112

>Not powerlifting for strength foundation and then doing a less intense power lifting program and hypertrophy, high volume program for aesthetics

>>41200335
>>41200307


how do you know when your noob gains are done?

>>41204800
when strength gains noticeably slow down

>>41204800
when you can't add weight every workout

>>41199992
True somehow. I'm training 4 times a week for at least 2 hours, doing a push/pull split. 1 hour 3 times a week is certainly not enough, but that's what most guys do. You must really bring your body over the limits.

>>41204699
Cheat reps tho

Or partial reps whatever Alphadestiny calls it

Eric Bugenhagen is the guy

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>>41199992
I'd like some thoughts on this program, it's /fit/ branded after all. I've been running it for a bit now and like the breakdown of lifts and what not. I've definitely my strength improving compared to PPL. I do add a bit more volume for bench and ohp, 5x5, but otherwise stick to this.

>>41199992
>Reminder that if you wanna make it as a natty you need to work out like two hours per day six days per week and do a SHITLOAD of volume. Lifting heavy three hours a week with 5 minutes long rest time between sets will make you a bit stronger but it's not enough volume for your body to change radically.
>Anybody who tells you "less is more" or "train smarter, not harder" is bullshitting you and you will not make it by following these shitty advices. You're a sedentary fuck who sits on his ass all day long except for the three hours you're in the gym; you are not active enough.

The only people that can do that either do NOTHING ELSE in their lives and have two week long down weeks on top of having workhorse workcapacity and are males who are in their late teens to late twenties.

Even then they'll not be able to accomplish that all of the time and will have constant shitty workout days.

The only people who can do what you're saying and have enough energy to do everything else in their lives are on steroids.

>>41204965
Plan is irrelevant as long as you train all your muscles hard, each group twice a week.

>>41204929
move more weight

>>41205020
Shut the fuck up you lazy old fat piece of shit.
>muh excuses!
>waah waah
Kys

>>41205020
Yeah shut the fuck up you weak motherfucker, eat more and sleep more. If you want to make it you will, otherwise you won't, thats how it is

>>41205035
I mean, that's exactly why a plan is relevant. You have to plan to work each muscle group at that frequency, and how to distribute it so that you can do so optimally.

Fortunately, that plan does exactly that, hitting every muscle group and most major lifts twice a week.

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>>41199992
>Lifting heavy three hours a week with 5 minutes long rest time between sets will make you a bit stronger but it's not enough volume for your body to change radically.
I'm starting to feel like this is true, unless I take a shitload of food and become a powerlifter, which I don't want to do.

I just want to be ottermode guddamit, I don't want no bitch tits and a gut.

>>41200436
This.

This thread is fucking garbage, without body pics, and coresponding routines.

>>41205083
No, you just go to the gym with in mind "today is back and bizeps day" or "today is chest and tri" and then you do whatever the fuck is necessary to make that shit burn. Yeah you can do a plan but it doesn't matter if you do it hard enough, the result depends on your work, not the plan.

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>high intensity doesnt work

needless to say ilook like shit, but i hit 4pl8 deadlift yesterday after 7 months of lifting

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>>41200403
I hear you, but it is really the deal with everything, kind of how the world works. It is a filter as well, though, because dedicated people will take the time to look it up and trying the methods.

I'm a DYEL, don't listen to me. Listen to the guy who looks jacked.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXO2azb3_PE

>vid related

tl;dr sorting through the bullshit makes this website what it is

I was doing Waterbury Method for a few months to get my strength up, now im on PHAT, works for me

>>41199992
i do that, skip legs tho because my ass was always too big and legs are just enough, proprtionately to upper body. once my upper body catches up to my legs and grows too much then and only then will i start working legs directly.

until then its deadlifts, soccer and cycling for me

is there any bodybuilding programming or is it just lots of sets and reps then adding weight?

>>41205537
>sets and reps then adding weight

fuck brah I think you might be onto something. What are you going to call it?

>>41205537
>>41205804
holy shit
someone put scientists on this shit right now

>>41204294
the exercise is called a t-bar row. you'd need a landmine (Rogue sell one) and a handle; i use a v-handle that you'd use for a cable machine

>>41205280
Just looks like your arms are in a different position and a slightly different angle

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>>41205280

>>41200117
80 years ago, yeah. Modern diet is a fucking mess

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>>41205280
Pulled 4 pl8 too after having a 130 kg 1RM like 4 months ago, and I dont look like lard.

>>41205537
lyle mcdonald's generic bulking program
aworkoutroutine dot com split muscle building program

>>41199992
>You're a sedentary fuck who sits on his ass all day long except for the three hours you're in the gym; you are not active enough.

very much this. i honestly like lifting low volume, 3-4 days a week, but because im a student right now and i spend alot of the day moving; walking to and from campus, playing ping pong, baseball, golf, soccer during free time. i feel like once i get a full time job i'll crave the activity. my plan is to keep heavy lifting for the weekends and do like 2 hrs of calisthenics and trx stuff on weekdays

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>>41200112
>trains twice a week
>holds world records

hmmmm

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Here you all go.

Big3 progression, BB movements, Volume, and optional strongman movements.

Still tweaking. any advice would be great

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Essentially it comes down to this:

Do your SS/SL until you get 1/2/3/4 or until linear gains stop. You can't just do a shitload of volume with babyweight, so your initial goal is to get strong, fast.

Once you are strong and can move around serious weight then switch to your BB routines. Since most of fit is dyel, it's important to know this.

>>41200169
upload bicture gayboi

>>41210941
heavy deadlifts are done only every few weeks, squat once a week and bench two times.
which is viable if you don't go too low with submaximal weight 70-85%.
squat and light bench on same day and bench solo day, are two days a week.
not the same anon

>>41200169
Same