>Been lifting for four years. >Started out fat. >Cut

Also my arms are small

Post your progress pics

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>>41013556

Sounds like you're yo-yo dieting and delusional about how effective your workouts are.

It's because you cut to skelly mode like a retard

>>41013571
>>41013556
sounds 100% like natty training

that is EXACTLY what you should expect, especially if you are taller than 6 feet

over the next ~8-10 years, you can progressively start to look decent if you repeat the process (if you currently are <20yo)

OR, just use the roids

>>41013556
post a pic, maybe ur body dismorphic is severe or you train like shit.

>>41013556

What's your ohp/bench/squat/deadlift/row variation?

>>41013556
>Cut to skinny fat
this is where you fucked up

>>41013596
This.

Maybe if you're really fastidious with your diet (i.e. getting perfect amount of calories, protein, carbs, acids, nutrients, fats, etc) and if you focus on a more specialized program like texas method or german volume training then it might work out better.

But if you're using generalized programs for long periods without change and not dedicating a huge amount of time then progress is slow.

You get out what you put in, but the longer you work out and bigger you get the returns will diminish. Humans weren't meant to be super muscular since its evolutionarily disadvantageous to have to eat like 4000 calories a day and haul around a 220 lbs body.

>>41013556
>what ahppened?
>doesn't tell us what the fuck he's eating.

>>41013571
this.
>>41013573
this.
>>41013596
>sounds 100% like natty training
well duh... he is natty...
>that is EXACTLY what you should expect,
wrong.
>especially if you are taller than 6 feet
wrong.
>over the next ~8-10 years, you can progressively start to look decent if you repeat the process (if you currently are <20yo)
or he could not repeat the same process and start a new one and look relatively good in like 2 years.
>OR, just use the roids
OR this won't solve any problem and he'll be a fat roider dude.

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Doing Layne Norton's PHUL.

Have done all solid programs recommended by /fit/.

Weigh all food on a scale, track calories. Have done so for four years.

Lift 7 days a week.

DB bench 90x5x5
DB OHP 60x12x4
Back squat 315x3x5
DL 315x5x5
In the gym 5-6 days a week. 2-3 hours each time.

Pic is a month ago

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Pic from 4 years ago

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When I cut to skelly

Prob 165 lbs.

>>41014408
>7 days a week
>natty

>>41014408
>roiding for this
I am sorry man.

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These are my ugliest pictures by the way

>>41014446
Not roiding.

I'm on trt because medical condition from being so overweight in the past.

>>41013658
I'm interested in GVT

>>41014470
shit man what happened ?
I dont know anybody that had to get on trt because of being fat.

>>41014408
>Started out fat
>lifted for 4 years
>those stats

You didn't eat enough and/or try hard enough.
Your squat is pretty good but everything else is like 1-2 years of lifting.

And lifting for 2-3 hours a day 7 days a week is ridiculous even if you were blasting tren, let alone natty.

>>41014506
So what do I need to do then?

Eat more?

>>41014408
you are one of those lazy lifters, i'm sorry man.

>>41014536
I just don't see how I'm lazy my man

I push myself every time I go into the gym.

>>41014536
I track every single rep. I improve every single week. I always try to do more than I did last time.

>>41013556
didn't bulk enough

5"11 need to bulk to approximately 260lbs, max 270lbs. Then you need to go low carb full cut mode for about 3 weeks.

If Natty only cut when maximum lean muscle is achieved. You will go from 260 down to lowest 190-195 and reassess.

Don't believe me? Search Eric Kanvesky on youtube. Guy bulked to almost 300lbs and looks shredded as fuck right now on his cut. He had a legit preggo beer belly at one point. Eat like a mother fucker, lift like a mother fucker, problem solved.

Actually if you're natty don't even cut, waste of time unless you want your entire life to be pain and suffering.

>>41014545
sorry, mean't mentally. seems like you got too comfy with things.

>>41014556
i don't doubt this, but in terms of looks you need to change it up instead of just eating more.

>>41014531
go for building muscle instead of retaining strength. up shit like 4x10-15. minimize rest times. go for super sets if you want. train with intesity, don't lazily do lifts. basically flex your whole body and focus on pump. throw cardio in if you want at the end. this will allow you to eat more and work your muscles differently than just isolation.

>>41014536
Stop using dumbbells for OHP and bench. They're notoriously hard to progress on since you have to jump up in 10lb increments.

Keep getting stronger and increasing the weight.

Also realize that you're never actually going to look like a fitness model if you stay natty. If you have top tier genetics and literally dedicate every fiber of your being to fitness then maybe you could look like a low tier one.

dosage of trt ?
I know docs tend to give it low,so you can have lower end of normal test levels.

>>41014595
do you mean op will never, or you as in people in general?

>>41014570
Okay. I guess I'll hop back on the bulk train then.

I like having arm veins though.

Any guesses on caloric intake? I've done 2800 in the past.

>>41014610
120mg a week

>>41014617
I mean people in general.

Don't get me wrong, by normalfag standards you can look like a fucking god, but the fitness/bodybuilding community pushes a toxic and unrealistic ideal to natties. If you want to look like the majority of dudes posted in 'goal bodies' threads then you need to hop on gear, because they're all on it.

>>41014634
kek,you have lower end of normal test levels a.k.a you are low test.
Tell your cuck doctor to up the fucking dosage a little bit so you can get to avarage test levels,as you say you try pretty hard only reason you dont progress is this.
I am mad at your doc,you literally threw 4 years into trash can.
also change dumbell ohp and bench to barbell ohp and bench.

>>41014622
>arm veins
dependent on how hydrated you are, what your body temperature is, and how low your bf% is.

>>41014672
I self inject.

I was under the impression that 120mg a week is the upper limit of normal. The day or two after a pin my total t comes in at about 1200

>>41014668
thanks for clearing that up. i agree with you on this.

as for the normalfag shit, everyone seems to have a view and answer for things, but 90%+ of them don't know what the fuck they are talking about. example is being in public and some normalfag male or female observes a real fit person, and starts preaching fitness shit. please.

>>41014622
Generally, you can't gain more than 2 pounds of muscle a month. Since people gain muscle and fat at roughly the same rate, that means adding 1 pound to your total weight every week - which is about a 500kcal daily surplus. Anything more will end up as fat.

>>41014701
no,its impossible to look like this if you work hard(I am considering you dont lie as anonymous) with normal test levels.

>>41014737
what if all you did was bw exercises? 1 lb a decade?

Same situation as OP
>5'8" 185lbs starting
>cut to 170
>bulk to 200
>cut to 170
>bulk to 220
>currently at 176 (aiming to go down to 150lbs)
>3.1 years liftin
>Current 1RM
BP: 180lbs
OHP: 145lbs
Squats: 300lbs
DL: 350lbs

Mostly stuck to compound exercises. Only just diagnosed what went wrong and concluded three things:
1.) Fuck Mitch for teaching me wrong form in the first few months
2.) Fuck Mitch for giving me a bodybuilding routine instead of SS
3.) Lack of sleep due to Grad school and stressful work (teacher)
4.) Long periods of cutting (would take me 5-6mos of no strength gains)

Some solutions I've that seems to help (still cutting though so gains are nil to none)
1.) Corrective stretching
2.) Sleep (8 hours)
3.) Zinc + Magnesium for sleep quality and some test
4.) Calisthenics for core

>>41014807
1. Whos mitch?
2. I just incorporated decent core workouts like 6 months ago. It's made a huge difference.

>>41013556
want2cop that hoodie........

OP here.

I'm gonna eat 2900 cals a day and bulk again till like 220lbs I guess.

I weigh 185 right now soo that's like 35 pounds of gains. Maybe I'll go till 240.

>>41014790
Do it properly and you'll still gain a lot of muscle. That means - progress onto harder and harder exercises instead of doing hundreds of regular pushups.

There's nothing wrong with bodyweight training.

>>41014847
if you bulk till 240 then you'll go back to your fat old self.
215-220 is good.

>>41014859
is there any benefit to banging out as many push ups in a row as you can? seems like everyone does it once in a while. i never do.

>>41014847
You can do shorter cycles, so you don't end up hating your fat ass. You can even do 2 months bulk, 1 month cut.

>>41014827
Mitch is a friend of mine. One month ahead of me in "the journey to fitness" so I took his word as gospel. Most of which are with good intentions but ended up back firing.

1.) Gave me a lifting belt for safety, so I didn't develop the habit of tightening my core.
2.) Taught me to bend my knees during OHP to alleviate pressure on my lumbar. Which was correct, only it removed my abs as stabilizers.

>>41014408
>90 bench
>60 ohp
>four years

I hope this is bait.

>>41013556
You have no fucking idea what you're doing. I bet you give people advice here too.

>>41014877
You get to impress your friends by doing more pushups in a row than they can.

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>>41013556
>>41014408
>>41014847

>5'11 185lb 14% bf.

You are an idiot. First, you are not 14% bodyfat. Second, with a body like that you 'should' weigh maybe 160lbs lean.

Jesus christ the delusion. A fat fuck is contemplating on gaining 35-55lbs MORE. What the FUCK!!!!!!! The bulking victims on this board, just wow.

Now tell me you were planning to gain that in like 6 months kek? You claim to have lifted for 4 years so you theoretically should not have any easy gains left meaning you could realistically expect to gain like 5lbs of muscle in a YEAR.

On a bulk you should aim to gain 1-1,5lbs monthly so you could bulk for 8-10 months then do a short cut.

>>41014536
This, 100% if you have normal T levels

Most common mistake i see is people not working out at a high intensity lvl. You dont have to be making Rich Piana faces the whole time but its almost hard not to if your going hard.

>>41014701
You dont look like you lift. If you actually do work out hard then your T is all fucked up.

>>41014408
Those numbers arent that bad. If your not E stating then your just unlucky that your kinda strong but still look like you dont lift weights ever.

>>41014408
Wut. 4 years and you DL 315? M8 you arnt working out hard enough.

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What is your daily protein intake?

>>41014408
BAIT
I lift more and look better at 18 lifting for 2 years

>>41014910
Dumb bells.

>>41014974
If I gain .5 lbs a week i'll be bulking for the next year.

This is the actual reality of lifting for normal people, not the roided up dudes you see in ads.

>>41015086
.8-1g / lb

>>41015081
Never trained it and I've basically been cutting for 3 out of those two years.

>>41013646
>>41013573
>why is cutting to skelly mode bad???

i have lost 30lbs so far and am currently 195 at about 25% bodyfat. i was planning on loosing another 35lbs and then cleanbulk

>>41015190
Maintain your fatness and build your muscle. You're already in an anabolic state and have a large amount of muscle from being in that state and moving around a lot.

>>41014408
Muscle aren't grown in the gym they are grown when you rest. 7 days a week is a blatantly ridiculous amount to be in the gym.
Lift 3-4 days a week with big compounds and whatever extra work you feel can be done. 45 minutes or 1 hour tops then you go get your protein or food

>>41015060
i don't think that's a look anyone should want to go for. yet a lot of guys have this logic. they want to be strong and look like... "semi-fit" but not ripped like a show-boat.

>>41015157
Idk if this >>41014408 was your set, but let me tell you there is a big lack of exercises if you ask me.
No dips? No pull ups? No push ups? No bend over rows? C'mon man. Go for heavier lifts but smaller amounts of reps or something, vary everything dude.

>>41015217
This is my routine

http://www.simplyshredded.com/mega-feature-layne-norton-training-series-full-powerhypertrophy-routine-updated-2011.html

It has just about everything.

I also added two ab/cardio days a week.

>>41015236
Idk man, I am not a guy who follows other peoples plans. Keep lifting anon, you'll make it

>>41014416
holy shit that woman looks like she could be your mother...

th-that's not your mom, right anon???

>>41015198
>>45 minutes or 1 hour tops then you go get your protein or food

how? How do you spend so little time lifting? 45 minutes is like two different exercises for me and my routine has like 5 per day. Do you seriously bust out a 5x5 squat session in 15 minutes?

>>41015283
ex wife.

>>41015187
Lame excuse. I have been lifting seriously for maybe 8 months and my deadlift is at 325. I train on that lift 2 times a week.

You are working out 7 days a week and having no recovery time. You need to up your main compounds and decrease volume. Just because you are getting tired in the gym doesn't mean you are making gains. A personal trainer can have you flap your wings for 45 minutes and you'll be tired, but you won't make gains.

Focus on the main barbell movements and work in other exercises like dips or Ross or pullups to complete a workout.

From what I understand, PHAT is a top tier program. IS there anything better for adding mass?

>>41015494
Anyone?

>>41013556
I'm similar to you 5'10", 185lbs I am also stuck in the cycle of built fat to skinny fat. I never have any muscle definition. Even when I was a college swimmer, I was never ripped or cut. Think I'm just never going to make it. Shit genetics and shit insertions.