Went to the nutritionist today to check that my keto + IF is

>>40817316
Most nutritionists are utterly retarded. My Gramps had diabetes and a nutritionist recommended he eat lots of carbs, and keep fats low.

They all have their pet theories about how to solve everything.

>>40817339
Don't this people go through some kind of education and get a degree. They should know about this right?.

Yes
Dietician if you want someone actually qualified

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>>40817316
Yes, she sounds retarded.

>Keto

And she's not the only one.

>>40817382
Yeah but remember it wasn't that long when people thought fat makes you fat

nutrition is going through rapid changes and most people don't keep up to date on the knowledge

>>40817339

>My Gramps had diabetes and a nutritionist recommended he eat lots of carbs, and keep fats low.

How is that retarded? Assuming they recommended unprocessed carbs, that's how you increase insulin sensitivity. An older diabetic would especially benefit from a heart-healthy high-fiber diet.

>>40817682

Now people think carbs make you fat and that fat disappears into nothing after going down your throat.

>>40817708
And eating sugar will give you the betus, which also is super addicting, which is the reason you can't stop eating it, which means you aren't too blame for the lack of willpower or anything.

OP here, I've lost about 4 pounds from keto + IF in about 2 weeks. How much of that is water and did I loose mucle? I've been experiencing strength decrease lately

>>40817698
Exactly, you too are using outdated information on how to treat diabetes

>>40817781

Or maybe the information you're getting is wrong

>>40817755

Strength decrease is likely from your body adapting to the new energy system. I started keto 5 days ago (not my first time on it) and im down from 170lb to 164lb. Likely all water weight. Some strength losses too, but expecting to regain it as body adapts.

>>40817698
It's like you don't even know what diabetes is...

SS

Hi im a new usser and im slim ... can i have a good bodu ... shrred?

So who's right then?
Nutritionis are bullshit
4chin is bullshit
Apparently even some studies are bullshit
Any truth out there?

>>40817852

Try it out for yourself and come up with a conclusion.

>>40817863
Keto seems to be working but I can't just try out all the different variations there are. It would take me years just to find the correct way. That's why we have scientists so we don't have to reinvent the wheel everytime

>>40817316
Here is some science to throw back at the peasant.

https://youtu.be/tIuj-oMN-Fk

>>40817878
Scientists literally get paid by (((companies))) trying to reinvent the wheel and sell it back to you.

>>40817840
STICKY

>>40817947
Exactly, so only trust methods that don't try and sell you something i.e. IF

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>>40817824

Diabetes is impaired glucose tolerance due to insulin resistance. Essentially, your body isn't efficient at metabolizing glucose because the energy pathways are gunked, making it harder for insulin to push glucose out of the blood and into the cells that need it. This gunking of cells comes from fat-- either because you're obese with lots of body fat or because you eat enough dietary fat, especially saturated fat, to have circulating fat levels of an obese person.

Why, what do you think diabetes is?

can i do IF but skip dinner instead of breakfast

>>40817698

Wow you are special kind of retard

T. T1 diabetic

>>40818066
That's completely wrong

>>40818066
Is this that 'broscience' I've been hearing about?

>>40818066

T2DM is caused by progressive destruction of insulin-producing cells in the pancreas due to chronically elevated blood glucose levels & these cells being overexerted to meet insulin demands.

https://www.diapedia.org/type-2-diabetes-mellitus/3104085180/pathophysiology-of-type-2-dm

>>40818078
Body produces the most cortisol in the morning i.e. cancer cells

if you eat breakfast you feed cancer

>>40817884
That was dope

>>40818185

Your body produces cortisol regardless, as it's a part of the stress response of waking up.

>>40818194
Yeah but don't feed it idiot

>>40817316
If that's true, then yes. At this point, if they are no known to be "cutting-edge" then they are just memesters.

>>40817755
A lot of it was water

Daily reminder that the body tissue that is most comprised of water is muscle.

Going on keto will fuck up your muscle glycogen, ruining your strength and muscle gains.

The answer is to plan your diet around your workouts. Eat tons of simple sugars immediately after a workout to replenish glycogen. Eat 20-30 grams of protein as well, this is less crucial than the sugar.

>>40818198

I'm not sure if you actually understand the role cortisol plays in the body.

>>40817671
Are you the asuka-poster from /thinspo/ on /fa/?

>Be in rehab for ye ol heroween at the wee age a sixteen
>nutritionist day
>some distinctively upper class white woman comes in
>kind of excited to learn about nutrition seeing as I had none
>she breaks out some Name The Produce flash cards and starts talking to us like we're disabled
Life is a meme

>>40818214
jesus christ kill yourself if you think this is a good idea for someone who is CUTTING

>>40818169

>NEFA (non-esterified fatty acids)
>Skeletal muscle takes up NEFA in preference to glucose via the Randle glucose-fatty acid cycle, and as a result glucose uptake into muscle is inhibited in the presence of high circulating levels of NEFA, resulting in insulin resistance. NEFA output is increased in obesity, thus contributing to the insulin resistance seen in this condition.

>>40818336
>>40818169

Low-carb diets also lead to as much circulating free fatty acids as being obese (table 1)

http://physiologyonline.physiology.org/content/19/3/92.long

>>40818336

Er, right.

Contributes to insulin resistance, which causes beta cell death, which is exactly what I just typed.

The primary cause of T2DM is not "gunking of metabolic pathways" as you implied, it's the destruction of beta cells in the pancreas due to chronically elevated BGL (which is toxic to beta cells) and overexertion (due to needing to overcompensate to address elevated BGL).

One can not eat any fat and get T2DM.

>>40818278
You still want to preserve muscle glycogen when cutting fucktard. Just eat less on off days, but you HAVE to replenish glycogen stores after a workout or you'll look like a fucking retard

>>40818393
I do IF and don't eat for about 8 hours after my workouts and still increase my lifts

>>40818379

>Intramyocellular fat accumulation
>Obese insulin-resistant individuals are prone to accumulate triglycerides and NEFA with skeletal muscle cells, and the degree to which this occurs correlates with the degree of insulin resistance. Intracellular fat interferes with insulin sigalling and (possibly) glucose transport, thereby contributing to insulin resistance.

>>40818408

Again, you're not seeing the forest for the trees you're just throwing copy and paste statements at me without even reading/comprehending them.

Are you aware that doesn't disprove what I've said?

Are you aware that is a step on the road to what I said?

Are you aware one can get diabetes with no fat in their diet?

So, therefore, are you aware your initial statement of "it's gunking of metabolic pathways" is not valid, and the actual primary mechanism of T2DM is related to beta cell destruction?

I think you don't understand what insulin resistance means, or you think it's an interchangeable word with diabetes.

Either way, you're wrong.

>>40818421

These things lead to insulin resistance, which you agree leads to type 2 diabetes, even if through something else. You're agreeing with me even if you're trying not to.

>>40818468

Except, that's not what you said at all.

You implied "fat gunking metabolic pathways" was the PRIMARY CAUSE of T2DM.

It is not, we've established that, there is no debating that. This is a fact.

One can get diabetes without having fat in their diet, we've established that, there is no debating that. It is a fact.

Therefore, one cannot state "fat gunking metabolic pathways" and be correct. We've established that, there is no debating that, it is a fact.

You are correct in that fat can contribute to insulin resistance, but you are wrong in your underlying understanding of the pathophysiology of T2DM.

Can I ask you an honest question? What is your age and level of education? Just so I can get an idea on how simple I need to make this concept so you can digest it.

>>40818484

>You implied "fat gunking metabolic pathways" was the PRIMARY CAUSE of T2DM.

"Diabetes is impaired glucose tolerance due to insulin resistance"

The next sentence was in the context of dietary fat's role in promoting insulin resistance, which is to do with what I described and what your link supported.

>One can get diabetes without having fat in their diet, we've established that, there is no debating that. It is a fact.

Well no, you didn't actually post anything about that, and while it may be true, just for a laugh I'd like you to find me this study where diabetes was experimentally produced in someone with 0 dietary fat.

>>40818547

Correct, diabetes is related to insulin resistance. However, one can be insulin resistant and not have diabetes.

Saying insulin resistance due to fat intake is the mechanism of T2DM would be like saying the mechanism of car crashes is slippery roads.

One can drive on slippery roads and never crash, therefore a slippery road is not the mechanism of car crashes.

Likewise, one can get T2DM without fat in their diet, therefore dietary fat is not the mechanism of T2DM.

Your disbelief at above only further cements your lack of understanding of the physiology.

How do we T2DM?

1. Chronically elevated BGL desensitises cells to insulin
-> this causes an increased needed amount of insulin to produce the same effect.
2. More required insulin means beta cells work harder and fatigue
3. As beta cells fatigue they produce less insulin, which increases BGL, which causes beta cells to need to work harder, which fatigues the beta cells, which increases BGL, which causes beta cells to need to work harder, which fatigues beta cells, which increases BGL, which forces beta cells to work harder (repeat ad infinitum).
-> additionally, high BGL is toxic to beta cells.

At no point is fat required in that vicious cycle, but deposits do exacerbate the situation as fat can hinder insulin and increase circulating BGL indirectly.

As we can see, the primary mechanism is related to the relationship between beta cells, circulating blood glucose, and insulin.

Insulin resistance (caused by many factors, not just fat deposits) is a player, but it is not the primary mechanism.

Basically, you are partly correct but partly wrong and thats the premise of this whole talk I'm giving you.

I really can't make it simpler than this, if you still don't understand I recommend you take an intro to nutrition class or investigate some medical journals.

It is interesting & /fit/ related so I do hope you look into it.

>>40817316
you monkey, nutritionists are useless. dietitians are the helpful ones.

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>>40817316
>>Calorie cut should be based of BMR and not TDEE

I've heard people say that your DEFICIT should be a certain percentage of your BMR

For some reason our institution makes us round with a nutritionist. All she does is measure and chart every patients waistline and try to be as invisible as possible out of fear someone will ask her a question. All the fat lazy nurses love her because she is hot and she preaches a low fat low protein high carb diet to them. They all have some thick old green book that they consider the Bible of nutrition that hasn't been updated since the 60s. Keep in mind to get this job all the nutritionists were the absolute top of their classes.

>>40818078
ignore the cortisol reply, yes that's fine. you might have trouble falling asleep hungry the first few times but that'll end.

>>40818198
HAHAHAHAHAHAH

Nutritionists are a meme. You could start working as a nutritionist right now and spread whatever bullshit you like. They're not the same as dietitians.

>>40818185
Remember, /fit/izens, this is the kind of people giving you advice on this board.

>>40818078

That's fine. Most people just do it the other way because they prefer to go to sleep having eaten more recently.