So I've been thinking about learning martial arts and I

>>40782038
JJ teaches you how to outmaneuver and control an opponent heavier/stronger than yourself (within reason) on the ground. Alot of streetfights invariably end up on the ground or can be easily taken there.

I just got back from jits and was working on controlling/ subbing a guy 60lbs heavier than me. Do eet

BJJ will allow you to beat a bigger oponent on a fight, always, unless you get sucker punched or his friends are around. Overall I prefer boxing for fitness and fun but I've done both for a decade now

It's a very good grappling art but you need to combine it with a striking art to round it out.

Wrestling is also a decent option.

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>>40782133
>be me
>beginner group of 3 months just merged with advance group
>im in advance group
>get paired with a fairly strong guy from beginner group for sparring
>god damn he's actually strong
>its obvious he lacks techinque/strategy
>very spazzy too
>doesn't slow down either
>ive never rolled against a similar spaz to technique ratio
>sweep him and neon belly him for a while
>step around to triangle and sub him
>afterwards he looks gassed out as shit making strange asthmatic noises trying to catch his breath
i know i should always win against these boys but still it feels fucking good man

>>40782038
i think karate has dropped in quality since early 2000s. if you want to do striking id get into muay thai or boxing. even mma but mma can be a waste of time if you don't have a ma background.

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>>40782038
question to MA fags, why is there noone teaching
>how to win against smaller/shorter guys
does every fucking MA assume you will always win if you are taller?

majority of 'how to' videos are for manlets

>>40782359
if there isn't a significant skill gap in favor of him, you should beat manlets, yes.

>>40782133
Not just on the ground.

German police use this stuff, it's effective. They basically borrowed punches from karate, throws/ground stuff from judo and tossed in a bunch of levers. I am not a big fan of the kicks and punches, but the judo elements and levers work very well if done right. Girl at practice broke another girl's arm badly because she did not tap out in time.

>>40782286
Wat, strikes are in there.

Disarming someone with a knife or gun is included for VERY desperate situations. You'll probably still get hurt, but a knife in your arm is a lot better than a guaranteed one in your stomach.

>>40782394
strikes aren't in brazilian jiu jitsu, which is the only sensible form of jiu jitsu

>>40782423
>inb4 BJJ fags infest the thread.

OP called it

>>40782440
i have seen the guys who go to self defence classes. having that kind of background won't help you for shit if you'd get robbed with a knife. you need to do live sparring to be somewhat prepared for intense situations irl, if that's your intention.

>>40782038
Nice bait

>>40782359
because manlets have weaker bodies and weaker minds
every day is a massive challenge if you are tiny

>>40782488
The problem with full contact sparring and 'anything goes' is that someone is going to end up with broken bones. We do randori-like sparring, though, the same as you would do in martial arts that don't include kicks and strikes in the first place.

ock tv school of pranks >bjj> anything else

>>40782567

The only thing that ever gets broken in sparring if it isn't with retards are noses and even that is very rare. Brazilian Jui Jitsu is good for self defense. The best martial art hands down for self defense is judo though. One throw onto concrete and the fight is over and this is coming from a guy who is primarily a kickboxer.

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>>40782038
>any opinions on Karate

It's kara-teh.

>>40782359
Because height is an advantage. Since you're taller than your opponent, they have to reach more to get a hit on you. Plus, being taller often means you have more reach.

There isn't much to teach about fighting tall aside from using your height. Basically, don't let them hit you. The main advantage of height is that your opponent will have a tougher time landing a hit.

Still, I think there are tips out there for taller people fighting against shorter people. Expertboxing had an article: https://www.expertboxing.com/boxing-strategy/boxing-styles/how-to-beat-a-shorter-boxer

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>>40782038
Your better off with

>Bjj / thai boxing

Or

>judo / boxing.


Knowing how to strike and avoid strikes in any situation is vital. So pick MMA.
A lot of the disarming skills learned in classical jj is legit. But for any thing else but that judo/bjj wins.

>>40783149
This. Do your research

>>40782038
It's fun. No gi is best. Shower after every training.

>>40783097
thank for the link, senpai

>>40782038
Boxing and BJJ fag here
I like the two because they are both kinda like body chess
BJJ fags will always claim BJJ is best, but the truth is that being abel to hit someone with a good punch without them being abel to hit you, is far better for self defence than rolling around on the ground, good boxing can end the fight instantly, while in BJJ you to get in dogy situations if you try it in a streetfight
Also going for the body is more effective than going for the head

>>40783245
Your BJJ training should include a lot of wresling.

Other wise cross train else where.

BJJ / Boxing is a good combo.

>>40782038
I did DDLR for a bit.
A dude tried to kick me in the nuts and ended up breaking his tibia on my heel.
I say HE broke it because I simplely placed my foot in the way (chasse bas?) and let his spastic strength do the work for me.

He did break my orbital with a solid haymaker though.

>>40783149
Classic jj is basically judo with a bunch of other stuff added on. How the fuck is judo supposed to have an advantage over that?

>>40783460
Because classic JJ is trained severely poorly with no live and 8 year old black belts

BJJ is good, japanese jujitsu is bad.
Knockdown karate (kyokushin or some other offshoot school) is good, traditional karate is bad.

Boxing, Wrestling, Muay thai and Judo are also good.

Almost everything else is bad. Taekwondo has some good extreme outfighting tactics and footwork but it's supplementary at best.

Don't do kung fu or kenpo or that shit.

>>40782038
>Also any opinions on Karate
The best if you have a good school. If you're from the US, forget it.

>>40782359
>question to MA fags, why is there noone teaching
>how to win against smaller/shorter guys
Because people are afraid of the infight. Just ask the Thai guys in which area Westeners are bad at. It's always the clinch or elbow/knee distance.

Americans (and Yuros by now) know fighting mainly from video games and karate movies. Get in an infight with them and they fall apart. Yes, the wrestlers also.

>>40782394
>German police use this stuff, it's effective.
>German police
>effective
Do we really have to show you AGAIN how weak and hilarious you guys are? Remember the Turkish grandpa beating up two young German police officers without any trouble? And all those cases in Berlin where policemen get taken apart by LITERAL CHILDREN?

Don't go there. Just don't.

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>>40782359
just step on them

>>40783581
100%
Legit if your speaking about unarmed fighting.

Those shitty disarms you learn in classic jujitsu work if you pratice forever.
(It's not like your going to use it).

>>40782332
neon belly? no man, knee-on-belly

cause your knee

is on his god damn

belly

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>>40783460
Classic jujitsu is the grandfather of jujitsu. All started from it.


It included disarms, strikes, throwing, joint locks.
All of it is generalized. Less detailed, less focused on. Less focused on sparring as a lot of things taught will end bad for your training partner.


Judo is 80% throws ONLY. They make it safe so you can fight to the death in sparring.

>>40782423

brazilian here, actually strikes ARE and always have been part of BJJ. they were removed from training as the self-defense aspect died down and the sport aspect became the focus of most gyms.

Brazilian jiu jitsu has two basic strikes on standup: the elbow and the stomp. One is for when someone is in your face ( hits harder than a punch) and the stomp is what you do to close the distance against a bigger opponent by making them flinch or actually stomping their groin.

On the ground, from the guard there are heels to the kidneys ( Royce did this in the early UFCs before it was banned as people were pissing blood for a while) and elbow strikes to the face. From the top, elbows and punches are preferred.

I know for a fact that these techniques are trained in traditional and legit BJJ gyms which are not more than 1 instructor removed from the 2nd generation gracies in BRAZIL.

In the US, teachers go there to make money. To make money you need to get fame. To get fame you need to win competitions. This is why you don't see these classic techniques anymore.

In fact, the first lesson of BJJ after the self-defense techniques were taught was the classic combo which Royce used to win almost every fight in the early UFCs: double leg takedown or trip, mount, punch the guy til he turns around, rear naked choke. GG izi

Source: Brazilian here, 10 years of BJJ under a Gracie

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>>40783460
A skilled judoka will make your world spin and throw you on your ass in a matter of seconds of touching you.
Judo created safe sparring. Sparring is the secret sauce. That and they focus on unarmed throws 80% of the time.

PIPEBOMB FAGGOT
YOU CAN'T SWEEP A PIPEBOMB
YOU CAN'T BOB AND WEAVE AROUND A PIPEBOMB
YOU CAN'T CLINCH WITH A PIPEBOMB
JUST GET A PIPEBOMB
30 SOMTHING POSTS AND NO PIPEBOMB HOW FAR /FIT/ DONE FALLEN

>>40782038
if you jump guard i will track you down and call you a pussy before i suplex you into another multiverse only faggots pull guard.

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Same brazilian here:

Judo and BJJ are twin arts. They both have all the exact same techniques. Jigoro Kano was a jiu jitsu black belt. So was Maeda, who taught the Gracies.

With the Meiji restoration and the end of the shogunate, japanese educators like Kano wanted to retain the benefits of martial training and its importance to Japanese culture, so they transformed the "jutsu" ( technique) into "do" (way). Kenjutsu became kendo. Jiu jitsu became judo. Aikijujutsu became aikido.

All of them were focused on health, education, discipline, rectitude. They were a means to an end and the martial ability ceased to be an end in itself. For a long time, judo was known as just Kano Jujutsu.

Mitsuyo Maeda, who trained the Gracie brothers, was a fighter who did demonstrations and challenges. He was battle tested. He fought all comers. He brought to us the jujutsu and never the "education" aspect.

The result is that the rowdy brothers became a sort of family gang, teaching themselves, their kids, and friends. Streetfighting. Challenging fighters. Carlos Gracie Sr. famously place an ad on the newspaper that said "If you want your face smashed in and your arm snapped in half, see Carlos Gracie at the Gracie gym".

Anyway, the point is: the techniques of Judo and BJJ are the exact same. It's the same art. The differences are two: the rules of randori, and the banning of techniques. Over time, Judo castrated itself by banning many many many important techniques for the sake of safety and entertainment. Newaza, or groundwork, was minimized. It's still focused in a school of judo called Kosen Judo but that's another story.

Anyway in BJJ it was taken for granted that you can take an untrained man down with little focus on the throws. Royce Grace tripped or double legged elite fighters in the early UFCs cause nobody had ever defended a takedown before. Instead they focused on what came afterwards: choking the guy out or snapping a limb.

>>40783827
Drone + pipebomb = ??

>>40783709
wtf no

>>40783762
im not going to argue with that. however in the context of chosing a first martial art, talking about bjj as if it contained striking doesn't make sense since if you arbitrarily pick a bjj gym, chances are you'll do 0 striking.

Final part:

Carlos and Helio were small so they focused on the ground techniques. But even the shit that has been rediscovered over time, like Nino Schembri and the gogoplata, or how Rolles brought the triangle choke into the system (they had never been taught the technique by Maeda), all of this already existed in judo, original jiu jitsu.

They bastardized judo into the shit that you see in competition today. No more leg picks, no kani basami, almost no groundwork is allowed without immediate progression. It's stupid.

BJJ is going down the same path. Bullshit sweeps like berimbolo, spider guard, all that garbage, that utter garbage that betrays everything Helio ever believed in.

Near the end of his life, Helio started wearing a blue belt instead of his grandmaster red belt. When asked why he replied: "cause if this shit they're calling jiu jitsu out there is what jiu jitsu is, then I'm no master. I want nothing to do with this garbage".

BJJ was about self defense for elderly people, women, children, frail men. Originally you took 40 self defense private lessons and got your blue belt. If you wanted to be a fighter, you could then train in BJJ for fighting and try to get the black. You'd have to take on all comers and represent the gym. Look for the Gracies in Action videotapes on youtube. They fought everyone.

Rant over. The BJJ you see today, at Lloyd Irvin or Alliance, has very little to do with the real BJJ. Sure you can take people down and submit them, that's easy. But the essence is gone, just like with Judo. Maybe if you go to the Academy in Torrance. I know they still teach the legit shit there. Also Renzo teaches fighting too cause he's a street fighter. Cesar does. Ralph does too. Ze Radiola. These guys.

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>>40783859
Not sure if op needs a history lesson.

He just needs to go to class. Basic as that.

Glad to know martial artists browse here.

>>40783866
Aloha snackbar
Daesh does exactly this.

Here's Renzo teaching BJJ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WReQ_a_3UZY

This is BJJ training. It's not MMA.

"Shove that somersault up your ass, you try it on the street and you see what happens"

They didnt subtitle that last part

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>>40783957
New bjj training sucks ass.

Hahaha.

All we do is that somersault shit.

>>40783987
That's the fucking point though, isn't it.

The guys who were taught real BJJ and fought in the streets and in the ring with it, dislike this kind of technique.

But that's alright. BJJ is now a sport, not so much a martial art. You can still learn the sport and win a fight quite easily. You can still do 6 months of BJJ and practically win any 1 on 1 fight against anyone up to a much much bigger opponent or a guy with years of real striking experience. That's good enough for me. The problem is, after that basic part, the rest is just focused on beating other grapplers on the ground! Like Rickson said, it's jiu jitsu made to fight against jiu jitsu! It's a vortex of nonsense that has long since left behind what really matters.

Rener and Ryron do still put out some good self-defense stuff, like in this video here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nafxhxTt8mw

>>40783871
Just visit a gym that trains both, standup and ground. I think most martial art gyms trains both, muay thai, BJJ, Boxing and Wrestling.

Here's a simple litmus test to see if your gym does real BJJ:

If once in a while, a week or two, the teacher asks someone to wear boxing gloves and tells them they can hit you then challenges students to take him down and submit him while getting struck

then you're golden.

>>40784079
Pretty much.
100%

That is why I cross train.

>>40782038
try MMA

>>40782038
>Also any opinions on Karate.
back to >>>/a/

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>>40783623
so as a tall guy I just get in close and the manlets fall apart?

>>40784325
Master blocking their flailing manlet punches with your, move in with compact smacks to their face with the outside of your hands.

>>40783894
thanks for the read, bjj-anon

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>>40784079
is there any form of unarmed self defence you can practise without leaving your house?

>>40782038
karate may be "good" but most dojos fucking suck and are for kids. if you cant throw a fucking punch or kick then go to karate class but any of the "fancier" techniques (i.e. flying spinning kicks) never work in real life scenarios

if your entirely new to any type of martial art try scholastic wrestling first- if your in school your school probably has a team and if not local schools usually have "open gyms" for wrestlers in the off season. just show up they guys are cool

BJJ is a good option too but will cost money. the only downside to BJJ is that they utilize fighting from your back on the ground0 which is not really good IMO. wrestlers hate fighting from their back which is why wrestlers are the biggest feeder sport in the UFC and why the UFC scores fighters on top as "in control" / BJJ has an inherent disadvantage in UFC and real life fights

i'd take any high school wrestler any day over a any high school black belt

>>40784477
No. That would be like practicing swimming on your carpet.

>>40784646

If you mean you'd take any wrestler over any bjj black belt, I have some really fucking bad news for you. Dan Severn vs. Royce Gracie. Rickson Gracie vs. Mark Schultz ( the olympic gold medalist). Smaller BJJ guys fighting on their backs against huge accomplished wrestlers who did not train in submission grappling.
Both wrestlers got wrecked.

You'll get raped. You'll get raped hard. You might not get swept but so what? You'll eat a kimura, a triangle, an armbar, a reverse armbar, shit you get a rubber guard on you and that's it. There are at least 15 submissions I can think of that I can work from that position, all of which are really tough to avoid, especially if you're trying to punch me.

Wrestling is good against everything EXCEPT a BJJ guy.

>>40782133
Hope that whoever you're fighting on the ground doesn't have any buddies. You really should avoid going to the ground at all costs in a street fight. Judo is much more practical, throw the nigga and run away

>>40782394
Jj is not a 'mix' of karate and judo you utter retard , judo was developed from jj

>>40782038
bjj fags are soft. add wrestling/boxing

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>>40784706
I guess I'll try to get bigger and hope they will not want to mess with a 'big' boy for them

>>40784849

Or join a fkn gym and train a martial art?

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>>40784878
>live in shitty pacifist country
>small town
>I prefer to go straight home after work

>>40784741
i did mean karate not bjj black belt

however, you're comparing GREAT wrestlers with GREAT BJJ fighters. BJJ is obviously better suited for UFC, which gives the BJJ fighter the advantage in that situation, generally. some of the fights you mention were pre-total wrestling integration to the UFC. Mark Schultz literally fought one UFC fight and was surely not as well versed in "mixed" martial arts

if you're just learning a martial art wrestling is the way to go, dont learn to fight off of your back BJJ style.

BJJ ruled the octogon up and until it became more main stream and wrestlers became more involved using it for post NCAA income. as recently as 2014 wrestlers held all the championship belts.

heres a good convo that were basically having
http://www.10thplanetjj.com/threads/19505-Wrestling-has-4-UFC-belts-BJJ-has-0-one-explanation-why

Just learn how to do cool high kicks so that whenever you're in a fight you can kick your opponent in the face

works every time

>>40782133
>the art of getting head stomped by his friends.

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>>40782038
You are better of with Kung Fu

>>40782181
>
what if you get sucker punched being a boxer... Knowing how to box give you an invisible helmet??

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>>40782332
lol i feel like youre the guy i mercilessly slipped and rear naked choked on my first day of BJJ. any chance youre from Florida?

if youre the guy im thinking you got too tired to keep up, couldnt maintain your grip from fatigue and got salty and said something like "you shouldnt move around too much, youll get tired" meanwhile I was still at a low steady heart rate and could see you sweating bullets. if you remember me im the guy who said "sure, whose next?"

Bruh. Kali is fucking awesome. Check it out. It's so much more than two dudes rehearsing a stick routine. There's a reason why the army/swat uses it.

>>40783726
Judo isn't 80% throws you mong.

A good judo school follows the pedagogue of judo.

Included is gi work and no gi work, and the leg work and old locks of before.

Any good school teaches dominant top position ground work with submissions, to follow every throw.

McDojo judo is rare, but when it happens, its 80% throws. Otherwise, groundwork and standup are integral parts of judo, and it is taught as a complete grappling system.

>>40786280
good for you but no im not from florida.

sounds like a shit bjj academy if the somewhat seasoned practitioners cant outgrapple complete beginnners to be honest family.

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>>40782359
people don't get how much HARDER a taller bigger guy will hit them until it happens. This is why BJJ is all about hugging.

If you are bigger and plan to fight manlets, study striking.

>>40782181
Even if nigger doesn't have friends around the other apes on that street would rush in and punch your back then steal your bag

>>40782038
I taught boxing at Kemper Military School and College back in the 90s. Boxing is great. You can take a wimp and make him 200% more dangerous in 5 lessons.

>>40784981
Thanks for the interesting link. Makes me want to start wrestling if I find a gym for that.

Was weird reading a discussion where posters act civilized and don't call each other cuck, though

>>40782038
this is where bjj can get you:

https://www.instagram.com/p/BJOEijogPJh/

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>>40788978
>that hair grip sumi gaeshi

>>40788978
That was weirdly hot

>>40786271
It'll get you used to being punched so that there's a higher chance a sucker punch WON'T knock you out.

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Scrolled through the thread to check for this, gonna post it now and then read the thread.

BJJ
muay thai
Kenpo
tae kwon do

Depends on who and where you fight. I caught a guy with a knee to the head when he charged me at a bar. Road rage guy tried to square off and ate my best side kick.

But insane homeless monster dropped me and I fought like a savage, popped his eye out (he did not give a fuck). I got rescued by like 6 or so Marines who beat him unconscious against the cement.

>>40789806
>my martial art hasn't been proven in mma
>ninjitsu

The winner of UFC 3 was a ninjitsu specialist.

>>40782038
id fuck this ugly nigger up if he ever touched me

2 months into muay thai

felt like I had to start with this one, since I was so scared of getting punched

best cardio ever

2 or 3 yrs in I will start bjj

>>40782181
>BJJ will allow you to beat a bigger oponent on a fight, always you get sucker punched or his friends are around.
Or when he just has better ground game then you do.
>bonus: he's also an even bigger faggot then you
so he buttfucks you too

what's a practical martial art that doesn't involve rolling around on the ground with other people's feet in your face?

>>40792951
Krav Maga

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>>40782038
i love watching an attractive stronger girl dominate a weaker girl.

women must feel the same watching guys fight

I'd love to get into boxing but I have shit endurance and I sweat like crazy so I'm self-conscious. And also social anxiety


My dream sport since I was a kid is Capoeira though

>>40793305
Yeah. Boxing will fix your endurance and social anxiety right up.

Sweating hard isn't a disadvantage unless you live somewhere with no fresh water supply to re-hydrate at.

>>40793577
Nice, I kinda hoped it would

It's not about deshydratation it's about getting sweat everywhere in the gymnasium

>>40793617
I'm pretty sure there are dudes just as sweaty if not sweatier than you in a boxing gym.

Bump for interest

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>>40786271
if you train boxing you will be able to react to sucker punches, unless the dude has faster hands than anyone you sparred with before, in which case you are already fucked

>>40787713
what about when fuckers catch your strikes and throw?

>>40788978
hnnng thanks senpai

>>40788978
>https://www.instagram.com/p/BJOEijogPJh/

both girls train and this was a staged fight (to promote their gym).

it's two hawaiian girls afaik, they are friends. Video is ancient.

>>40788978
lmao this just shows the dark evil hidden inside women. Teach one some martial arts and she'll go total ham on someone who is defenseless in comparison and choke her until she gets fucking brain damage

>>40783678

Oh yeah I have no weapons experience and was only talking about fighting unarmed. I'm not going to even pretend to know what weapon art would be best. I like in one of those nanny states where everything is forbidden, so I just focus on the natural weapons of the body.

Ultimately, the ONLY martial art where you can be 100% sure that you will not find a McDojo of is boxing. You can't even McDojo it. Boxing training is split into intense physical conditioning, bagwork, padwork and technique, and sparring, except ALL the drills are well known by everyone.

It also happens to be an amazing martial art that gets you in shape no less.

Be really big and strong, solves about 90% of trouble right there.
Then I would vote boxing, or something with a lot of throws.

>>40783871
Are you seriously trying to say it's "neon belly" still???

WEW LADS
E
W

L
A
D
S

>>40795020
I know right? And it's a literal translation too of the portuguese: joelho na barriga. That's what we call it.

Dude's nuts

Thoughts on Tai Chi? I am interested in the philosophy behind it.

>>40795117
do it when you are 80+

>>40795078
We better be careful though. This guy might pop through our monitors and put us in a crew suffix choke...

Or worse, a Bone Darrow.

>>40795117
Used mostly for mind gains and meditation. It's all about feeling the flow of energy through your limbs when striking or blocking. Tai Chi combined with Shaolin Kempo is the best way to go imo

>>40795117
It's meditation in motion, not a martial art.

>>40782359

If you're getting your ass whooped by a shorter guy, it's because his experience is so much greater that no amount of "how to" is going to help you.

>>40783581
>Don't do kung fu
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tyuj556lRw8

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>>40795262
>doesn't knee into torso as soon as they clinch
shit tier rules

>>40795273

Something something too busy trying to throw something I 'unno

We do knees and elbows when sparring, not entirely sure why they don't.

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>>40795319
>boxing gloves
>trying to throw
please, senpai

>>40791288
>Fight one fight
>Wins 'tournament'
Then why did he mainly use judo in the ring?

>>40782133
>take it to the ground
>get soccer kicked into a coma

lul

>>40782958
>The best martial art hands down for self defense is judo though.
Smartest person in the thread.

>>40794453
>both girls train
you're joking right?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wpO2DbYvsjs
Skip to the fights.

>>40795144
>>40795020
>being this buttblasted about neon belly
its a meme you dip

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any recommended judo channels on jewtoob?

>>40796462
>BJJ in a group fight

>>40796768
B-but muh self defence against the nig nogs

>>40796537
Yes. The ijf channel livestreams all the international competitions. You can binge watch all of them.

>>40796834
just found a nice torrent for
>Judo Self-Taught in Pictures
first published in 1952, any older material floating around?
it had some great tips for defense against a dog, most of them "this kills the dog"

>>40796880
Find a PDF of kodokan judo written by Jigaro Kano.

>>40784981
FW Belt and FlyW has never been held by a wrestler

I've been training JJ for about 8 years now. I was 5th in a world turnament (albert as kadet) and 13th in +18 age range.

JJ is a great MA. Judo, karate, teqwando and aikido all stem from it. That also means that it is less focused in certain aspects.

More important then the MA you choose tho is the gym you do. It should have physicaly intense trainings, alot of sparring and a bunch of people should compete.

That's my 2 cents and i apologyse for my spelling. I usualy only lurk and am not a native english speaker. Plus I'm on my phone.

>>40796998
Thanks, I did. Nothing for defense against a dog or anything, I found out he also published a book in 1913
>The Principles of Jujutsu

There are PDF's but only on the first few pages, the book is supposed to be nearly 260pages