2k17 What's your excuse for not being vegan? >It is cheap

"Hot vegan girls" LUL
maybe 1 out of 10000 is hot LOL

Not being a fag.

>>40717440
Better odds than non vegans then.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2LYe4Gzmc4

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>>40717428
already am. checkmate

>>40717428
>things I made up

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I have basically no appetite ever all the high protein, high calorie, low satiation foods are from animals

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>>40717428
>be vegan
>order vegan, gluten free, low BPA veggie burger
>make sure the waitress tells the chef i'm special
>tfw i'm better than everyone else in this restaurant
>eat unnatural food
>die of cancer
>restaurant uses vegan sales to subsidize meat products
>mfw Vegans are perpetuating the meat industry

>>40717428
how 2 meet macros as vegan?

>>40717501
Nope
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXigmGZk5FU

>>40717440
This
They look like indian grannies

>>40717524
By eating the right amounts of protein, carbs and fats like anyone else.

>>40717428
I'm not a faggot.

I switched to vegan about two weeks ago. Feels gassy man. My family is supportive and they are all cutting back significantly on animal products.

>>40717524
Same way you do as non-vegan: read the labels and drink protein shakes. https://truenutrition.com/p-1169-vegan-protein-optimizer-formula-1lb.aspx

I actually am a pretty strict vegetarian but honestly you vegans are so fucking preachy that it makes me never tell anyone about my diet or its benefits ever.

Just knowing you are a vegan makes me want to break my foot off in your ass.

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Because I don't want to be dyel for life. I also don't want to have to take supplements to maintain any kind of gains.
Also, I like the taste of meat. We are omnivores by nature, you mongoloid.

>>40717556
>Feels gassy man.
Get some probiotics.

>>40717539
>youtube video as a source
Confirmed retard

>>40717524
60 carb /20 protein /20 fat works perfectly. It's super easy. Just eat a lot of beans, lentils, nuts seeds and green veggies, fruits.
Maybe check out a vegan Youtube channel like Jon Venus:
https://www.youtube.com/user/TheQuestForFitness

>>40717567
I found cutting dairy and eggs from my diet to be superior health-wise than cutting meat. Used to get acne a lot but I stopped eating dairy and it's all gone.

>>40717539
https://youtube.com/watch?v=C0c5yClip4o

>>40717577
>Because I don't want to be dyel for life.
You can still eat vegan even if you inject bull hormones.

>>40717567
that's because you're inferior, puSsy

>>40717584
I figured I'd just wait out the gas for my GI to adjust to the new food. Do probiotics actually work? Is there one you could recommend?

>>40717539
see
>>40717471

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>>40717428
> hot vegan girls

>>40717594
*video from a medical doctor
Where did you get yourt advice.
UUUHm aah this guy in my Gym is really jacked and he eats 10 eggs a day, so it must work for me as well?

>>40717556
Hang in there. If you used to eat a diet low in fibre your gut needs some time to adjust. You will be fine in a few weeks!

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>>40717610
Can't you not use animal products?

>>40717567
Get it? You CAN break your foot off in their ass because your bones are brittle from being a faggot vegetarian.

>>40717428
>What's your excuse for not being vegan?
stupid meme threads on fit

>>40717471
trippy

>>40717604
Homeopathy.... hahahahahahahha
I am not retarded

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>>40717428
Can you please elaborate on the cardiovascular and cancer stuff?

Cancer is very rare among the Inuit when they are their traditional all meat and fat diet. Cardiovascular diseases were unheard of. Grains and carbs cause disease. Not blood and animal fat.

To all vegans, can you post your typical daily diet and your macros? How much PUFA fats do you consume? What is your waking glucose level?

Here is mine as a meat eater:
- 500g steak, 500g lamb, 4 eggs, pack of bacon, give or take
- 3500 calories a day on average
- 200g protein, 300g fat, 0g carb a day
- waking glucose around 72
- 0 plant fats, just butter, tallow, in my diet

>>40717636
I am able to not use animal products since my testicles work and produce all the testosterone I need. Yours apparently don't, but you can still cut down.

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>>40717428
>being so utterly cucked, such an example of a beta-male, that you think eating the same food they eat actually impresses a woman

reddit is down the hall, and to the left

>>40717634
>i have no argument or source only an appeal to authority on a dime-a-dozen youtube diet doctor
>thinking people are as retarded as you

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>>40717688
>vegan cuck thinks he is high test
Post lifts.

>>40717683
>Grains and carbs cause disease.
Another gluten free faggot.

>>40717634
Thanks. I used to eat the hurr durr saturated fats and cholesterol are good for you diet. I ate 2-egg spinach omelettes every morning and thought I was eating healthy.

The advice on the net and in diet books and even from shill scientists is overwhelming. The dairy industry campaigns are very successful. I considered myself pretty enlightened even despite being effectively brainwashed. When everyone is saying butter and eggs and milkfat are actually healthfoods it's hard to distance yourself from it and look objectively at the situation.

And I've heard for years processed meats are cancerous but I never stopped to think why the fuck am I eating this burger or this turkey sub when I know it causes cancer.

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>>40717428

vegans die of heart disease

>>40717428
> hot vegan girls
Literally unexistant,

>>40717704
Bp: 2000lb
Ohp: 2000lb
Squats: 2000lb
Deadlifts: 15 lb
I have reached the peak of human physical training. Other than my slightly weaker deadlift I am stronger than any meat eating man alive. You fooking jelly m8? Don't worry it's nothing personnel kid

>>40717722
dat red meat tho

>High animal protein intake was positively associated with cardiovascular mortality and high plant protein intake was inversely associated with all-cause and cardiovascular mortality
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27479196

That guy will be completely impotent before he hits 45.

>>40717704
My top squat is just over 5pl8. Your turn.

>>40717584
>veganism is viable
>having to supplement your diet just to stay alive

Checkmate, faggot.

>>40717732
Fuck, why did I laugh so much at this

>>40717708
Haha yeah, what a loser only m-mates once per y-year, which is very little, h-heh heh..

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I wish people weren't too distracted by trump/islam/etc to realize that 99% of vegans and liberal communists

>>40717502
>all the high protein, high calorie, low satiation foods are from animals

u having a giggle

>>40717727
literally not a word

>>40717746
If you change your diet your gut flora goes funny and probios help with that. You'll learn should the permabulk end.

>>40717624
S. Boulardii is the shit, cheap and lasts pretty well.

>>40717683
>Cancer is very rare among the Inuit when they are their traditional all meat and fat diet. Cardiovascular diseases were unheard of. Grains and carbs cause disease. Not blood and animal fat.
That is actually just BS argument that I used to believe as well. They actually died of heart disease. Grains and cards do not cause disease.

I do not weight my food but to give you a genreal expresion I usally eat:
Bowl of berries with oats, flax seeds, banana, protein powder and soy milk in the morning.
For lunch usually whole grains(rice, pasta, ...) with steamed broccoli and other veggies and usally seeds and/or nuts as topping.
For dinner whatever I feel like. I always try to get one really protein rich food like textured vegetable protein, tofu, beans, lentils....

Makros at 60/20/20 I guess.
I have no idea what my waking glucose is.

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>>40717742
>associated
>self-report
Lmao

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>>40717428
>You impress a lot of hot vegan girls

>>40717712
>The dairy industry campaigns are very successful.
Yeah they spend millions on promoting airy and eggs. Have you ever seen an advertisment for broccoli or sweet potatoes on TV?

>>40717428
Vegetarianism over veganism any day.
If you don't eat meat because MUH ANIMALS FEELINGS, then you're a fucking faggot.

Vegans are low test as fuck. Enjoy your gyno from soy, you faggots.
Vegetarian masterrace acknowledges that protein is still important, which is why god-tier healthy meats such as fish are still eaten.

>>40717795
It's been proven that excess carbs cause disease and shortens lifespans.
Also grain is not a great food. Especially the hybrid strain that we're eating today.

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>>40717742
>assessed by regularly updated validated food frequency questionnaires

Those are useful, and always accurate. Never ever do humans underestimate what they eat.

>>40717428
ass isnt vegan fuccboi

>>40717683
Eggs and red meat cause CVD, Alzheimer's, and ED. Processed meats like bacon are a known carcinogen.

For breakfast I have about 75g oatmeal, a grapefruit, and a protein shake (33 g protein). Lunch I usually have a spinach salad, big bowl of fruit, and some stir-fry vegetables (today I had a curry with onion, cabbage, carrots, and pinto beans, was about 10 g protein). Dinner I had pasta with marinara sauce, bowl of almonds, and a homemade granola bar (about 25 g protein for the meal). I'll probably have another meal later.

Total calories so far was 1404 with 68g protein. You eat more than twice as much as me, so if I convert my quantity to yours it would be 3500 calories with 170g protein.

>have vegan Feb
>Pussy literally tastes sweet
>Meat eater fwb pussies taste a bit sour

>>40717822
>Vegans are low test as fuck. Enjoy your gyno from soy, you faggots.
MUUUH SOY GIVES YOU GYNO.... MUHHH NO PROVE BUT MUUUUH VEGANS ARE FAGGOTS

Just do your own research and you will find out that protein is no problem at all for vegans

>>40717830
Longest living people on earth ate 85% Carbs
http://www.okicent.org/docs/anyas_cr_diet_2007_1114_434s.pdf

>>40717683
I think its something about toxins building up in your body over time and giving you cancer. Processed/cured meats and burning your meat are the most damaging. These coupled with a sedentary lifestyle where your body doesnt remove toxins as much probably do increase your chances of getting cancer....coupled with all the other shit that gives you cancer like chemicals in plastics, and food.
Also, all the people that spout all this meat gives you cancer shit on me dont seem to think its normal to get cancer and die at 95.

Why do people go full retard on their diets?

Buy food from good sources. Make sure your macros align with your lifestyle and physical goals. Other than that eat meat, vegetables, fruits, legumes, nuts, whatever; it doesnt really matter.

>>40717753
Yeah, you get it

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>>40717428

So happy to see this thread again, it's always so interesting and everyone is convinced to both be vegan and not be vegan, it's a very valuable way to spend time.

>>40717897
Everything I love kills me
>love cured, smoked and fermented meat and food, make as much myself
>love beer and liquor, make my own
>love tobacco, grow my own
>love cheese
>love coffee and roast it myself

>>40717637
Actually my bones are like iron because I consume lots of dairy. My bones are probably tougher than yours, you fat burger eating american retard

>>40717953
Dairy is associated with increased risk of fracture.

It's a lot more difficult to eat 3000-4000 calories worth of vegan food. As a college student lifting 6 days a week I really don't feel like making my diet 10x more complicated with very little to gain.

>>40717962
Is squatting 405 also associated with increased risk of fracture?

>>40717880
1.They eat meat
2.They barely eat anything overall and fasting is seen as very very healthy
3.They are active as fuck
4.They're food sources and air quality was healthy as fuck
5.They are VERY FUCKING HEALTH CONSCIOUS, we learn shit from them. Their fucking peasent dirt farmers know more then our best nutritionists.

You simply can't pretend that the entirely fictitious bullshit from that study long ago means anything.
It was debunked.
Also, you can't take look at a diet as if it exists in a fucking vacuum like that. It doesn't work. It never fucking worked and it's charlatanism at it's finest.
Even the bruhs at the fucking gym who know dick about diet overall can tell you that eating a certain way will get certain results according to your lifestyle choices.

See this:
Watch it
Come back and talk afterwords.

>>40717440
The handful of vegan girls I have met were all very attractive, they will fight over you too if you are a legit vegan because male vegans are hard to find, especially ones who lift like me.

People on /fit/ hate fatties so you'd think they'd encourage people to switch to veganism because vegans are, on average, in the normal weight range.

>>40717966
I've found it simplified my diet. Cutting out garbage food means I naturally eat healthier. I don't eat 4000 calories a day though, so I'm not 100% sure about scaling. Do you take protein shakes? That's one easy thing you could switch out for plant-based shakes. The plant ones have lower fat and 0 mg of cholesterol, and plant-based proteins are associated with decreased risk of all-cause and cardiovascular mortality.

>>40717742
are you going to shill the same study in every thread now or what ?

I'm not vegan, but I seldom eat meat at home. I can't stand the gristly, chewy part of meat a lot of the time and it jusy turns me off from eating it

>>40717988
There are other studies of populations who succeed a primarily plant-based diet. Crete for instance, where all the poor people couldn't afford meat while the rich people had all the meat they wanted. The rich got diabetes and CVD while the poor lived healthier lives.

>>40718026
stop following me you dirty meateater!

I'll search for some better ones...

>>40717988
>1.They eat meat
Like 2% of calories from animal foods, which is basicall nothing
>It was debunked
NO you just cannot accept that your opinon is not right

>>40718036
The rich over indulged in meat and sweets and other hedonisitc pleasures and didn't do jack shit or know jack shit because they are rich
The poor ate healthy balanced diets because they needed too, were active, and played a lot.

You're fucking retarded.

>>40717988
>Even the bruhs at the fucking gym who know dick about diet overall can tell you that eating a certain way will get certain results according to your lifestyle choices.
Yeah sure. But if you eat 3-4 eggs a day plus loads of meat and dairy you will increase your risk of dying much younger

>>40718059
2%?
According too who? You?

Yeah it was. The studies were heavily doctored and it was brought to light a long time ago.

>>40718085
They don't care.
The same way that you don't care that putting a baby or child on a strict vegan diet is considered child abuse and attempted manslaughter.

>>40717880
Actually protein deficiency is one of the biggest issues among vegans.
http://www.webmd.com/vitamins-supplements/ingredientmono-975-SOY.aspx?activeIngredientId=975&activeIngredientName=SOY
Here's evidence that soy helps the production of feminine hormones.

I backed up vegeterianism, which you completely ignored. Seeing as you clearly haven't done your own research, I'm just gonna consider this thread as a massive bait.

>>40718169
>The studies were heavily doctored and it was brought to light a long time ago.
SAUCE

>The same way that you don't care that putting a baby or child on a strict vegan diet is considered child abuse and attempted manslaughter.
Feeding a baby vegan can work quite well. Just some parents are uneducated and feed them nothing but soy milk.

>Why do you never have a source for anything that you say?

>>40718199
>Feeding a baby vegan can work quite well. Just some parents are uneducated and feed them nothing but soy milk.

No, it can not.
It is considered child abuse and many newborns have died and parents have been taken to court and put in jail.

See
>>40717471

>>40718191
>Actually protein deficiency is one of the biggest issues among vegans.
Protein definceny = Starvation.... Where do you live? Uganda? Somalia?
If you eat enough calories and a bit balanced you will get enough protein.

You did not back vegetarianism, eating fish is not vegetarian

I eat like, a shit ton of cheese everyday. I'm not fat by any means, I have a bmi of 21. But, shit, cheese is my one addiction. I'll eat like 6-8 ounces or more a day.

How clogged are my arteries?

>>40718241
It's all ogre for u m8.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2716748/

>>40718191
>Here's evidence that soy helps the production of feminine hormones.
Phytoestrogene is NOT Estrogene

It is the position of the American Dietetic Association that appropriately planned vegetarian diets, including total vegetarian or vegan diets, are healthful, nutritionally adequate, and may provide health benefits in the prevention and treatment of certain diseases. Well-planned vegetarian diets are appropriate for individuals during all stages of the life cycle, including pregnancy, lactation, infancy, childhood, and adolescence, and for athletes. A vegetarian diet is defined as one that does not include meat (including fowl) or seafood, or products containing those foods.

Source: American Dietetic Association:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19562864

>>40718241
Not surprised. Cheese contains Casomorphin

>>40717428
I like honey

>>40718292
isnt that bs

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8169274
>Ingestion of milk products containing beta-casomorphin is not likely to become the focus of an addiction.

>>40718333
Dunno. There is something that makes cheese addictive. It was the most difficult food for me to give up.
And yeah well.
I am not a rat

>>40718314
Eat vegan but keep eating honey!?

>>40718353
>Eat vegan but keep eating honey!?
I will.

Don't really get why vegans cry about honey, though. I'm supposed to give a damn about insects now?

>>40718006
>ones who lift like me
Nice try

>>40718363
Yeah, me neither. Honey is not really compareable to meat/dairy. Don't listen to everything PETA tells people

>>40718266
The american detetic association is trash bruh.

>>40718363
For me I use maple syrup instead of honey. I'm not even convinced that bee farming his harmful to either party but I never liked honey that much anyway

Brehs I just wanna eat a healthy diet and minimize my risk of illness or disease what types of foods should I avoid?

>>40718464
Eat: Whole plant foods (beans, whole grains, seeds, lentils, veggies, fruits...)
Avoid: Highly processed foods, meat, eggs, dairy

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>>40717744
>vegan hitting over 5pl8
>natty

>>40717428

>vegan
>cheap

I could understand if you said vegetarian maybe, but vegan is in no way cheap if you want a well-balanced nutritional diet.

>>40718363
I hardly consider insects to be much higher than plants, in fact vegans should take up eating insects to supplement their deficiencies.

>>40717471
For people who don't feel like watching it all:

>Eating fats of all kinds
in range around 50~70% it is good for you or neutral. Go into very low fats and you will get hearth disease.
>Eating carbohydrates
in range lower the 50% is optimal. The closer to 100% the better chance you die.
>Salt
If you have high blood pressure, stick to ~5 (grams?) per day
If you have fine blood pressure, you can eat all salt and nothing will happens.
If you go low salt, you will die of infection or worse.
>Vegetables
Neutral.
>Fruit
It is slightly better to eat 2x fruit per day than 1x fruit per month. But the effects are still very insignificant.
>money
Replacing cheap food with BIO raw high quality food is change from 10% (of family's spending on food) to 15% in 1st world (USA/Finland) and from 50% to 70+% in 3rd world. So until we will make healthy food cheap, telling people to eat healthy is like telling poor people to stop being poor.

>Honorable mentions:
milk is anything but harmful, if you do milk, go for full milk with all the fats
eggs are neutral
if you are going to eat burger and you want to feel better, throw away the bun and eat the meat.

>Conclusion
The moderation is the key. The food you eat doesnt have to be good. Neutral food is fine too.
The study which told people to go low in fats is SCAM.
THE MODERATION AND BALANCED DIED IS THE KEY.

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>>40717428
Not falling for the bait. Fag.

>>40717683
>Cancer is very rare among the Inuit when they are their traditional all meat and fat diet. Cardiovascular diseases were unheard of. Grains and carbs cause disease. Not blood and animal fat.
Could you stop spreading blatantly false information without any evidence?
"CONCLUSIONS:
Cancer is a major contributor to the difference in life expectancy between residents of Inuit Nunangat and the rest of Canada; reduction in cancer rates would make the greatest contribution to gains in life expectancy."
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20167155
"FINDINGS:
The evidence for a low mortality from IHD among the Inuit is fragile and rests on unreliable mortality statistics. Mortality from stroke, however, is higher among the Inuit than among other western populations."
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12535749

>>40717428
Trans fats = vegan
High fructose corn syrup = vegan

I'm vegetarian and I always tell people that eating vegetarian doesn't mean you are eating healthy. No way I could be vegan, I like dairy & eggs too much.

>>40717796
You think that people are too retarded to know if they ate red meat or not?

>>40717428
>hot vegan girls
they're only hot because they've just jumped on the trend and been vegan for a few years, try and find some women who have been vegan for over 10 years and they all look like shit.

>>40718603
Being vegan is objectively cheap.
My diet mostly consists of:
>rice
>beans/chickpeas
>lentils
>grains such as pasta and bread
>oats
>veggies
>fruits

The only thing that might be expensive is the fruit depending on what it is and when you buy it. Everything else is cheap as fuck.

>>40717746
Veganism is viable, the only thing that you would need to supplement is B12, and not because you won't be eating animal products, but rather because fruits and vegetables are sanitized.

Livestock are supplemented with B12 and that is why meat eaters get it that way. B12 is made from bacteria in dirt. If animals weren't supplemented with b12, then you would be just as likely to be low in it.

>>40718618
I avoid honey for a combination of reasons. It's exploitation, and just because they are of lesser intelligence doesn't make them less worthy of consideration. I always worry about a slippery slope condition - if it's okay to keep bees, is it okay to eat insects? Or what about just eat eggs? Are cows really that much smarter than bees?

So I avoid it all together.

>>40718681
The egg and dairy industry thanks you for your shill post. A deposit has been added to your account.

>>40717746
>meat eating is viable
>have to supplement the diet of cows just so they live long enough to eat

Checkmate, faggot

>blaming cholesterol for clogging arteries
>need to reduce cholesterol
how about the next time someone gets cut they use less bandaids

the sugar causes the inflammation and the cholesterol is just doing its job

>>40718661
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4975865/

>>40717577
the majority of scientific and anthropological research that has been conducted actually points towards frugivory in the human species.

>>40718906
show me a 100 year old vegan
There is no such thing.

>>40717695
Dr Michael Greger is an actual doctor. And why does him having a youtube channel make him quack?

>>40717822
>Concerned with gyno from soy
>Proceeds to eat mercury heavy fish
Enjoy your cancer from mercury

>>40718963
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGQTpxjbwaM

>>40717683
Animal products contain cholesterol and saturated fat which increase your risk for cardiovascular disease. The World Health Organization analyzed 800 studies related to cancer and humans and concluded that processed meats cause cancer and red meats and I believe a few other animal meats are probably cancer causing. I don't know the details about the inuit people you are referfing to, but keep this in mind, cancer is more likely at certain ages and these people's life expectancy may not have been very high. Keep in mind that the science is overwhelmingly supportive of meats associated with higher risk in heart disease and cancer, and that posts in articles on a blog only hold as much weight as their sources, and if left not investigated, you may come out of it with false conclusions.
I would highly recommend reading the scientific literature, here is a study on the eskimos:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12535749

>>40718603
it only costs a lot if you don't know what you're buying. just make a meal plan. simple dude.

>>40717822
healthy meats? not what the overwhelming support of science says

You are a fucking faggot because you care about your mother and your girlfriend you pussy. Caring about anything is stupid and makes you a fucking faggot, why are you even on here? You care about typing shit? You fucking pussy. Vegans have higher test than meat eaters and vegetarians and I'm not even vegan

>>40718395
>>40718395
it isn't trash because your feelings don't agree with it. It would be trash if it didn't support the overwhelming consensus in the field of nutrition. Can you explain why it does not?

>>40718603
I eat beans legumes whole grains, fruits and veggies. That is probably close to the best you are going to get healthwise and quite a bit of that is dirt cheap.

>>40717708
Still mates more than me so yea I guess I am going vegan lol

Going to go vegan for my cut, what are some very protein dense vegan foods lads?

>>40718919
Let me take a wild guess and say you get your information from blogs and articles taking science out of context to conclude bullshit. Let me take another wild guess and say you have never read a scientific paper in your life.

>>40719145
Textured vegetable protein and protein powders will get your protein by itself, other protein sources come with carbs like beans and legumes obviously, but also a lot of fiber and are generally healthy.

>>40719145
Oatmeal, vegan protein powder, tofu, TVP, tempeh, soybeans, and chickpeas.

>>40717428
Enjoy your brain damage

inb4 biased vegan study going nuh uh

>>40719217

Because B12 is just SO hard to find (except in every major grocery store and pharmacy in the country).

>>40718710
Yeah the R^2 is pretty bad in validation studies

Literally women's studies level of rigor kek

>>40718391
Milk and honey are also both produced in excess. The vegan POV is that it's "oppression".

>>40719309
Or do like early, natural humans did: drink only water which has other animals' shit in it.

Or do what our ape relatives do: roll your food around in the dirt first in addition to drinking exclusively poop water.

>>40717428
>>It is cheap

Deer are free.

>>Your risk for cardio vascular disease and cancer drops significantly

Source required where the only difference is diet and other factors are controlled for.

>>You impress a lot of hot vegan girls

Great, maybe we can go protest Trump and hang around insufferable retards who think their artists because they paid to go to art college.

>>40717428
Vegan is such obvious meme tier bullshit I'm surprised there actually are any. It's 2nd place behind paleo and only by a cunthair.

>t. vegetarian masterrace

>>40719400
Hunting equipment isn't cheap. Have you ever tried to kill a deer with a melee weapon? I'm actually curious if people can do it in modern times, chase down a wild animal and kill it with nothing but a knife or spear

>>40718977
>tfw you will never preform heart surgery at age 100

>>40719451
A simple hunting rifle can be had for cheap as fuck second hand if you don't have any hand me downs.

A guy speared a black bear on video not too long ago and it went viral. There are some videos of guys spearing wild pigs I've seen, but chasing down a deer just isn't going to happen.

>>40718968
appeal to authority

>>40717428
Veganism is retarded and there are 0 hot vegan grills, and most vegan men(not really men) are either dyel or dyel

>>40718006
>The handful of vegan girls I have met were all very attractive
Lucky you.
I know exactly two vegan women and they are both
1. DYEL
and
2. insane

>>40717471

vegans on suicide watch

>>40717471

Hello Police? I'd like to report a murder.

I just witnessed an entire diet ideology get murdered in front of my very eyes. Please send help.

>>40717966
You can drink 2L of vegan friendly Coke Cola.

>>40718012
You must have missed all the vegan tumblrinas that come supersized due to vegan friendly donuts, pasta, chips, and bread.

>>40719692
>>40719729


Weird, I didn't see the bit where it was ok to kill animals because you like the taste and can't be bothered getting your required nutrients from plants.

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>>40718948
So why do we have developed canines? And why are we good at endurance running?
Predators need to be smart, herbivores don't.

>>40718395
>It says something I don't like to hear so it's trash
Nice argument bro.

>>40719849
>ok to kill animals

It is.

There is no argument against it that isn't based on your feels.

>>40717556
>Feels gassy man.
Dude, it will go away after a while. It's just your gut flora adapting. Same for me.

>>40719877
This so much.
>The known universe's apex predator shouldn't use its superiority to exploit weaker species!

>>40719877

There are reasons, you just don't want to believe them because it goes against your own personal beliefs and choices and when this happens you get offended because you think that your existence is being questioned so you block out any logical arguments.

I mean, the OP makes a point that it is scientifically healthier for you and you choose to ignore it as if science is based on opinion.

Are you starting to realize how fucking stupid you sound? Let me give you a comparison: you sound like the left-wing retards defending transgenders by saying that gender and sex vary independently at birth; or you sound like those right-wing lunatics who think that Trump is not lying to them.

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Reminder: These are the people telling you to go vegan and give "vegan health advice"

>>40719981
In this very thread is a man who absolutely states with hard concrete science that you are 100% wrong.

>>40720010
How does he have a double chin while being a skeleton? Vegans being in charge of me talking illness as usual

>>40719981

You must be OP samefagging, because all OP did was make a couple statements.

Meanwhile, 3 posts or so down is an actual video where these "carbs r superior" 'facts' are investigated and debunked.

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>>40719981
sorry, but the 2 worst foods most people eat are vegan.
High fructose corn syrup
Hydrogenated vegetable oils - transfats

You can eat a lot of meat (non processed) and be healthy. You can't eat a lot of the 2 foods I mentioned and be healthy.

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>>40719981
>there are reasons
>doesnt actually give any reasons

>>40720039
Checkmate vegans

>>40720010
What mode is this?

>>40719877
>There is no argument against it that isn't based on your feels.

The moral argument for veganism is very strong. I'm sure a philosophy academic could phrase this better, anyway:

It is morally wrong to cause harm and suffering
Raising and killing animals for food causes harm and suffering
It is morally wrong to kill animals for food

The only way you can dismantle this argument is by saying that you don't care about inflicting pain and suffering or that it is justifiable in some scenarios. You could argue the second premise by introducing the 0.1% of people who solely hunt for their food using "humane" methods of killing. For 99.9% of the population who eats factory farmed animals, you're out of luck.

Show me a stronger moral argument for eating meat that doesn't rest on your cognitive dissonance or superficial reasons like "our ancestors ate meat".

>>40719932
>>The known universe's apex predator shouldn't use its superiority to exploit weaker species!

>I have the capacity to do something so that means I should do it

Try again

>>40718006
Exquisite meme right there.

>>40720110
Not the guy you're answering (and I'm >>40718314) but your premise is based on your feelings, as he predicted it would be: "It is morally wrong to cause harm and suffering".

You're treating that as an axiom and the following statements make perfect logical sense, when it isn't one. Whether one accepts or rejects that premise is based on personal feelings. Clearly you think it's always wrong and clearly he (and I too, but I'm vegan just for the sake of my own health) doesn't.

>>40720110
Morals don't exist, we just think they do

>>40717441
spbp

>>40717428
> impressing vegan dykes
Checkmate /fit/

>>40720166
Not vegan, and I usually hide vegan threads because it's this same bullshit over and over, but this is a poor argument. You can't say morals don't exist as an argument if you LIVE in a world of morals and expect people to abide by them. By that logic, you could say terrorism and genocide are okay. And I'm sure you probably hate Muslims and Blacks because they're genetically inferior primitive apes with no sense of morals and /pol/ won't leave. It's obvious murder isn't okay, or are you going to justify senseless acts of violence by the argument of subjectivity. It's why nihilism is nonsense, because it passes as a philosophy on technicality and theoretics, not practical application. Morals are framework for building society to be it's most consistent and efficient for progress. In fact, places without social framework are usually the ones that are the least developed.

Again, that said, I think it's ridiculous to put us on the same pedestal as animals or put human lives below animals. Is it acceptable to begin torturing needlessly? Probably not. But it's the same argument for recycling. For a long time, recycling was not practiced not out of ignorance, but because the INFRASTRUCTURE was not developed. This is the same reason for why SAFE male birth control doesn't exist. We could use a hormone called Inhibin but the infrastructure to support this just doesn't exist, despite our knowledge of this being way more effective, moral, etc. This is my thoughts on veganism right now.

>>40717624
FUVK probiotics. I got my appendix removed due to some strong ones. Just eat yogurt bro, like a couple times a week.

>>40720110
Am taking philosophy right now. What you don't understand is that this isn't really a moral issue. It's a non-moral issue.

We can all agree that it is wrong to cause harm and suffering to living things.

The other side can then say sure, I agree with that. I just don't believe that animals we eat for food are living beings. I don't consider them to be living beings.

Female genital mutilation for example. We can all agree that there are some things we must do to our kids that will better them in the future. Taking them to the doctor for a shot. Having them eat vegetables. Etc. The genital mutilators may believe they are doing what they believe is best for their daughters, so they follow that logic. They can believe that fucking their kids genitals up will stop a portal of demons from entering their world. The other side will then say wait, I don't agree that genital mutilation will stop demons from entering a portal. It's become non-moral.
There is an option C to both of these though. And my professor did point it out. It's the option where the party knows it is bad, but won't stop doing it.

>>40720152

I realise I didn't really answer OP, I just wanted to talk about the merits of ethical veganism. There are of course other reasons that don't involve feels including health or environmental veganism.

>>40720301
>It's a non-moral issue

Is it? The judgement of rightness or wrongness falls to morality, or so I thought... Even saying that "animals should die for our food" is a moral argument, they are making judgement about the right (or lack thereof) to be alive/not die.


>The other side ...... I just don't believe that animals we eat for food are living beings. I don't consider them to be living beings.

Right, but that would be a poor argument. What are their premises? Those animals aren't alive? Only humans can be considered "alive"? It would be a very very shaky argument

>>40719981
>muh health argument

Vegans don't give a shit about their health. They eat junk food, drink liquor, smoke, have unprotected sex and all kinds of other unhealthy shit they have no intention of ever stopping. The health argument is nothing but a plan B for when the animal liberation argument has failed.

>>40717795
Theres actually some really interesting research coming out correlating high sugar intake with arterial swelling and long term minor arterial scarring. This is where the cholesterol starts to deposit and cause eventual heart disease. I'll try to find some of it. Combined with poor cardiovascular health due to sedentary lives, most people in the US are affected.

There's actually a term in medicine called "the french paradox". despite having high fat calorific diets and a higher percentage of smokers, they tend to have better BMIs that americans and similar or better longevity. It boils down to how many miles a day they walk. Walking (bet it to and from work, or just around), is intrinsic to their lives. They don't have to go to an artificial environment to get their minor cardio in.

>>40720110
>The only way you can dismantle this argument is by saying... that it is justifiable in some scenarios

Which it is. Oops, there went your argument!

All the negative studies against meat only use a short percentage of people with people who have already had health issues in the past regarding what they were studying.

The farms are just like any other corporation, they'll do what ever it takes to make a profit. Even if it includes removing vital meat nutrients from your body so you take synthetic B12 instead.

>>40717428
Because I don't make life decision from meme pictures. LCHF master race.

>>40720524
The fuck? Yes.
It's easy.
As long as you get your correct macros, micros and just enough calories to not die you can do basically anything in regards to meal timing and calorie amounts.

>>40720395
The point the lecture was trying to make was that most cultural "moral" issues we see today aren't really moral.

And yea, it is shaky. One side says I don't consider cows as living beings. Other side says what the hell are you talking about, they are living beings. That is the dispute. The dispute is no longer about hurting living things. That's where it becomes more of a cultural issue and less of a moral issue. Not considering cows as living beings is as shaky as believing Jesus Christ will save us from the fires of hell

*tips fedora*

I barely just learned about this though. First philosophy class I have taken in a long time. I could be all wrong I just found it very interesting

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>>40719729

>>40717742
>correlation implies causation

There is absolutely no way you are this stupid. If I were a betting man I'd say that you made a shitty decision based on a retarded and backward system of ethics you probably don't understand and then used science to justify your decision post facto. I doubt even you remember why you're actually vegan, but at this point you've stuck with it for so long you're completely unwilling to admit you've wasted a bunch of time. As a result you cling to any statistic which even tangentially supports your flawed, unnatural lifestyle choice and look down on others so they don't look down on you first like a fat middle school girl who calls anyone with a healthy bodyfat percentage "anorexic."

>>40720546
Morality is ones own sense of good and bad within their programming as an adult within a society's set of understandings and is basically completely subjective.

Ethics is the objective.

I don't give a fuck about morality.

>>40718006
>can't go for wing wednesday
>can't go to bbqs
>can't go to steakhouse
>can't go to heart attack grill
Why even live at that point.

>>40718223

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19562864

>It is the position of the American Dietetic Association that appropriately planned vegetarian diets, including total vegetarian or vegan diets, are healthful, nutritionally adequate, and may provide health benefits in the prevention and treatment of certain diseases.
>Well-planned vegetarian diets are appropriate for individuals during all stages of the life cycle, including pregnancy, lactation, infancy, childhood, and adolescence, and for athletes

>>40720602
Morality is not subjective. As a society, murder is inherently immoral. We would cease to exist as a species if we just willy nilly murdered dudes all the time.

Taking care of our young is also morally right. We would stop existing if we stopped doing this.

Generally telling the truth is also morally correct. A society where people lie would cease to exist.

>>40718623

So in summary, it's another quack giving faulty nutrition advice

>>40720640
What if I think humans are a flawed species that kill and ruin everything around them? Therefore anything that benefits our species is immoral

>>40718944

The author of this paper ignores the previous poster's re-analysis of Inuit mortality data and just continues perpetuating the myth. The previous poster's last paper also found this

>A decreasing trend in mortality from IHD in Inuit populations undergoing rapid westernization supports the need for a critical rethinking of cardiovascular epidemiology among the Inuit and the role of a marine diet in this population.

Their heart disease mortality went DOWN after adding processed western foods to their diet. That's how bad their traditional diet is.

>>40720661
Checkmated

>>40720640
You simply don't know what you are talking about.

There is nothing in nature or how in animals behave that is "moral". You arguments about murder, truth, and child rearing are totally subjective and full of wild assumptions.

I won't respond to you anymore because there's no point. I won't convince you that you're wrong even though you are.

>>40720634
Vegetarian includes some meat and animal products you fucking retard.

Vegan diets are 100% unhealthy for children. This is not up for debate. This is a fact.

>>40717440
This. Vegan I was dating had hairy armpits. Dropped

>>40720676
>Vegetarian includes some meat and animal products you fucking retard.
>some meat
No, it doesn't. Only dairy. Milk, egg, cheese. That sorta thing.

>>40720697
To be fair, Eggs are considered a meat in some societies.

>>40720676

>vegetarian includes some meat

Ha ha ha

>Vegan diets are 100% unhealthy for children.

"including total vegetarian or vegan diets"

>>40717549
>implying you wouldn't an Indian granny

>>40720575

I love the rage

>things correlate because they're unrelated

>>40720697
And animal products..
Many people actually claim that the okinawans were vegetarian.

And many vegetarians eat one meat, like fish or eggs and milk.

You're fucking retarded.

>>40720546
>living beings

There's no disputing that cows (and bacteria, sponges, mushrooms and other such unsympathetic things) are alive. The question is whether being alive entitles a thing to human moral consideration.

>>40720711
I can see that.

>>40720734
Read my post again. And no, if you eat fish, you're not vegetarian.

>>40720748
This guy gets it.

>>40717428
Milk, eggs, and meat are fucking delicious

>>40720753
I read your post.
It's fucking stupid and wrong.
And many vegetarians think otherwise.

Else your kind wouldn't keep bringing up the fraudulant okinawan study over and over and over again.

>>40718006
What's the point of lying on the internet?

>>40720634
The vegan diet is harmful to children.

>>40720748
Should we minimize animal abuse, like abusing domestic pets? Or should we be free to abuse and torture any non-human animal?

>>40720846
The answer is it doesn't matter.

Being vegan is fucking stupid.

First argument

A meat diet causes cancer. Sure if someone is to eat deep fried whatever or red meets that are loaded with fat all the time yeah they'll develop problems. But a vegan only eating deep fried foods is also going to cause issues. If a person is to carefully look at what their eating. Choose healthy options. No processed foods. Nothing deep fried. Staying away from all the oils that are added to everything to give flavor now a days. They will live a very healthy life. Hell prove me wrong on this. Show me a study where people eat meat in their died but pay attention to their foods vs a vegan diet. Vegans can get saturated and trans fats just as easily as non vegans it's just these studies you guys always link are vegans vs people who dont watch their diet.

Second arguement.

The human body depends on meat for nutritients. If you go vegan you have to supplement nutrients. B12 only comes from meat. There are many others that arent common in plants. Iron is a good example. Sure you can go on about how this plant has good iron but there arent many in total. Vitiman k, calcuim vitiman d are all rare in plant foods but would be otherwise easy to get from a diet with meat. Hell meat eaters dont need to pay attention to these nutrients because they are so easy to get from meats we usually just assume were good on them. But vegans do. Oh and amino acids. So many of you are so uneducated on this. Yes almost all plants will have all your essential amino acids. But they will not have equal levels. Different types of plants will have low levels of some amino acids and higher of others. So if you want to be able to form a complete protien you have to look at how much of each essential amino acid are in each plant you eat and how much more you need. If one of these amino acids is lacking you will not form a complete protein and it cannot be used by your body.

Continued......

>>40720871
Continued....

Third Arguement
Protien. Some of you dumbasses in this very thread are saying something likle 40-60g of protein is enough. This is a fitness board. It is impossible to put on a noticable amount of muscle if that is what is being concumed. If your arguement is we dont need more protein shove it up your ass and go to /b/ or somewhere else that isnt about fitness. Top the low protein diet with not properly getting each of you amino acids and you got a ticket to getting injections from your doctor cause your a dumbass.
The average vegan will be healthier than the average meat eater only because vegans tend to pay more attention to their diets than meat eaters (ie the rest of america). Show me a study where both parties are watching what they eat then you'll get somewhere.

Also sorry for my bad writing. Im pretty drunk right now and just dont feel like revising.

>>40720853
I think you hold a minority view there. Most people don't think it's okay to abuse and torture domestic pets.

>>40720814
How is it stupid and wrong?
Also I'm not vegetarian, but that hardly matters.

>>40720884
You're suggesting that I'm condoning it. I'm not. I'm saying it doesn't matter.

>most people

Trying to get a consensus as to what is objective is incorrect, as it fundamentally makes it subjective.

>>40717471

i hate running tho

>>40720871
this is some shit bait mate

>1 serving oats
>380 calorie coldcut sandwich for lunch (1/2 potbelly wreck sandwich with avacado)
>spaghetti and 4oz ground buffalo with 1 serving rao's marinara sauce
>5 herring
>1 serving wholefood organic frozen broccoli and 1 serving frozen okra

>total calories 1436
>cheat on weekends
>lose .5-1 lb/ week

is this ok

>>40720829

A panel of experts concluded it wasn't, so

There's also no "the vegan diet" but there are vegan diets

>>40720871
>First argument
The fact that you can eat unhealthy things on a vegan diet does not change the fact that diets high in saturated fats and cholesterol are causing cardiovascular disease, type 2 diabetes, amputations, alzheimer's, erectile dysfunction, and a variety of other chronic illnesses.

>B12 only comes from meat.

No, you can get B12 from eating unwashed fruits and vegetables contaminated with dirt and fecal matter. You can even get it from tainted water supplies like the ones found in nature.

You mention Vitamin D being easy to get on a meat diet, but the fact remains that a significant portion of the population eating meat diets is Vitamin D deficient. I've been supplementing my Vitamin D since long before I turned vegan.

There's plenty of iron on a plant based diet. I checked my Cronometer today and I hit 172% of RDI. Main contributors were oatmeal, a wheat roll, and some soy-based imitation meat I ate on the roll.

Vitamin K for today was 192%. Main contributors were cabbage, blackberries, and grapes. Apparently cabbage is super high in Vitamin K.

Meat eaters absolutely should pay attention to their micronutrients. As I said, many are deficient in Vitamin D, others are deficient in iron, etc. Everyone should watch their vitamin intakes.

No one eats only one plant for their protein. Basically all plants have proteins. And soybeans, a very popular item for vegans, have a complete protein profile.

>Protein

I talked about my protein above >>40717864

Barely trying I hit 97g of protein in only 1,684 calories. If I were eating higher calories, or replaced some of my carbs with protein, I could easily have hit 0.75g protein per lb.

>The average vegan will be healthier than the average meat eater only because vegans tend to pay more attention to their diets than meat eaters (ie the rest of america).

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4073139/

>>40720983
The vegan diet, no meat all veg, is 100% harmful for children.
It's always been that way and NO official anyone outside of vegans will tell you that it's good.

>>40720871

Gotta love the people who think that if you have meat in your diet, you're set for every nutrient and don't have to check to make sure you're getting adequate amounts of any vitamins or minerals

>>40721012

There's no "the vegan diet" but there are vegan diets

Refer back to the American Dietetic Association saying the opposite of what you're saying >>40720634

>>40721012
The diet of milk fats, red meats, saturated fats, and processed meats is 100% harmful for children.
It's always been that way and NO official anyone outside of the Dairy and Egg industry will tell you that it's good.

>>40717428
Because meat is good for you.

What you are implying is an unhealthy non-vegan diet is really just a garbage tier trash diet

Truth, though--don't vegans fart like bears, and constantly?

>>40721030

>meat is good for you
>just eat it in moderation or else your heart will explode and your asshole will grow cancerous

lol

>>40721040
Only for the first few weeks because of the increase in fiber.

96% of the population is deficient in fiber, and if we all got just 3g more fiber each day it would save billions just from the constipation Western diets cause.

I ate over 40g of fiber today. How are you guys doing?

>>40717683

Do you ever shit?

>>40721045
Did I say to eat meat in moderation? I eat about 170 grams of protein a day, most of which is from meat.

Just don't eat processed garbage food and you will be healthy, eat a decent amount of good fat, eat NO added sugar, no processed garbage.

Vegan diets are trash also. your fucking vegan bars and vegan faux meat patties are fucking awful for your health.

>>40717428
Eatting too many vegetables makes my shit all runny. Fuck that, I'd rather eat meat potatoes(or rice)and veggies and have solid craps.

>>40721058

>Did I say to eat meat in moderation?

i was giving you the benefit of the doubt because anyone who's not a total idiot about nutrition says at best to eat meat in moderation and swap in more plant protein

>>40721057
Once a week for an hour after an enema. Why eat fiber when enemas are so much easier?

>>40721040
If the choice is between eating vegan or eating the garbage american fast food diet, eat vegan.

But the best diet is one that eats whole meats and vegetables that contain no additives of any kind.

I eat all the same vegetables as vegans, plus the good animal protein.

Checkmate vegans

>>40721071
Plant protein isn't even complete protein. Fuck off manlet

>>40720846
>should we be free to abuse and torture any non-human animal

Yes, we should have that freedom. You can use your freedom to abuse and torture fewer animals, or plants exclusively.

>>40717683
Carbs can cause disease, not fucking grains... And acquiring a disease from eatting an uneven amount of carbs for a certain time period would mean that the person had shit genes to begin with to develop a disease like that.

>>40721080

>id ayn eben complete! durr i read that on t nation!

not like you even know what that means but it doesn't take away from the fact that meat is at best reserved for a very small portion of the diet and plant protein options are healthier

>>40721109
wrong

>>40721002

You can nit pick all you want but I'm still right even with your bait arguments.


That is very true. a diet high in saturated fats and cholesterol does cause all sorts of problems. But that doesnt mean that you have to stop eating all meat or you die. No it means to not eat like a dumbass.

You're going to tell me to eat fruit thats covered in shit is a suitable way to get my b12? I live in toronto. Where the fuck am I going to find a fresh water supply that doesnt give me a third fucking eye for drinking? Where is this nature you are talking about? Hell most of the world lives in big cities. Other then eating shit which by the way isnt vegan cause it came from animals where do you get this b12.

And again I said you can always nit pick whatever you want but most plants are lacking several these nutrients. I dont give a fuck if cabbage has high vitiman k. The average plant doesnt. You have to look for all these speficic plants a eat such a wide range of things that have to be flown in from half way around the world. You know what else you can do. Fucking eat a chicken breast.

Yes. I already awknoledgeed all plants have protiens. But they do not all have equal levels of all the essential amino acids. Did you fucking read what I said? Of course nobody eats on plant for all their protien. But its very specifc. When a plant lacks an amino acid you have to eat another plant that has high levels of that one out of eleven amino acid for your body to be able to use it as a protien.

Try hitting that 100g of protien without supplements. I get 200g a day and I dont use any supplements (well fish oil cause my diet lacks those fats). All your protien is coming from that crap powder most of you dont even know what is made of.

And that article you linked is irrelelvent to what im saying. ill say it again. Your studys are in your favour cause they only compair vegainsim to unhealthy diets, not heatlyh diets with meat.


Stop being so fucking black.

>>40721017
Your more likely to not be missing any nutrients then someone who has a vegan diets. Never said it isnt important to check

>>40721028
Dude, you're fucking embarassing yourself.
Vegan diets have been proven to be 100% harmful and even deadly for newborns and children.
This is not up for debate.

>>40721023
The american dietec association says that well planned, you know the hoop jumping bullshit that vegans do? is good for ADULTS, for children athletes etc? They specifically say VEGETARIAN which is basically an omnivorous diet that eats or moderate amounts of meat or animal products.

You know, the okinawan study you people like bringing up? Or that other group...the adventists? They are considered healthy "vegans" by you people. Why are they excluded now?

>>40717584
Probiotics is murdeer though

>>40721023
>>40720983
>>40721028
The vegan diet is harmful to children.

Evidence supporting this statement:

Children who are raised on strict vegan diets do not grow normally:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/4067152
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8005079

Children develop rickets after prolonged periods of strict vegetarian diets:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1874810/pdf/canmedaj01383-0052.pdf

"There are some links between vegetarians and lower birthweight and earlier labour"

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7788369

Effects of vitamin B12 and folate deficiency on brain development in children:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3137939/

"Particular attention should be paid to adequate protein intake and sources of essential fatty acids, iron, zinc, calcium, and vitamins B12 and D. Supplementation may be required in cases of strict vegetarian diets with no intake of any animal products."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2912628/

These next five are case studies:

Cerebral atrophy in a vitamin B12-deficient infant of a vegetarian mother:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25076673

Severe megaloblastic anemia in child breast fed by a vegetarian mother:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8442642

Consequences of exclusive breast-feeding in vegan mother newborn - case report:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19748244

Nutritional vitamin B12 deficiency in a breast-fed infant of a vegan-diet mother:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3948463

"We report the case of a 7 month-old girl that presented with acute anemia, generalized muscular hypotonia and failure to thrive. Laboratory evaluation revealed cobalamin deficiency, due to a vegan diet of the mother."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18293883

>>40721159

>well planned, you know the hoop jumping bullshit that vegans do?

I'm sure you know all about constructing a vegan mealplan and the painful hurdles involved.

>is good for ADULTS, for children athletes etc? They specifically say VEGETARIAN

"including total vegetarian or vegan diets"

I know it's amazing to you because you don't actually know anything about vegan diets and your views are based on old stereotypes of hippies eating nothing but tofu and salad. Whole plant foods are nutritious and health-promoting. Even diets with meat and other animal products are best when the meat is kept to a minimum.

>You know, the okinawan study you people like bringing up? Or that other group...the adventists? They are considered healthy "vegans" by you people. Why are they excluded now?

Who calls the okinawans vegans? And the adventists follow all sorts of diets but of their vegetarians are known for being particularly healthy and full vegans see even more benefits.

>>40721203

Every thread you paste this and every thread you get and ignore a reply to it

>>40721143
>where do you get this b12.
I get it from a supplement because I prefer it to the natural method of acquiring the b-12 from dirt-covered vegetables and dirty water sources.

A shit ton of plants have Vitamin K. Cabbage isn't even top 10. I've literally never seen someone argue vegans don't get enough vitamin K.

>Fucking eat a chicken breast.
Vitamin A 29.4IU 1%
Vitamin K 0.4mcg 1%
Folate 5.6mcg 1%
Dietary Fiber 0.0g 0%
https://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/poultry-products/703/2

You have to eat a varied diet as a meat eater too. You can't just live off animals like they're some magic food product that contains everything you need in one package. Meat barely has Vitamin K so I don't know why you're harping on vegans not getting enough.

If I had eaten 2,000-2,500 calories today I'd have hit 100+ g protein even if I'd replaced my shake with food. I only got like 30g of protein from the powder, and I got an equal amount from the imitation meat I ate.

You complain about taking protein shakes when most body builders take tons of protein shakes. Why can't I take a protein shake if I'm trying to hit above-normal levels of protein intake? Makes no sense.

And you complain about supplementing b12 but you take fish oil because your diet lacks it. Everyone needs to supplement if their diet lacks something. I plan to get a DHA supplement too, though I do eat flaxseed and chia seeds daily.

You should probably supplement Vitamin D too btw. Most Americans are lacking Vitamin D, vegan or not.

>>40721223
What

>>40721240
Youre just gunna keep being black arent you. Though Ill admit I fucked up using chicken breast as an example for vitiman k. Which by the way is fat soulable meaning it can only be digested with fats which you aint getting from your leafy green veggies.

>supplements

instead of eating a balanced diet of which will contain all your nutrients naturally youre going to eliminate these sources and take them in supplement form? wheres the logic in this. on top of this supplements are bad. They are loosly regulated and most cannot by digested properly the way that they are sold. And we got another dumbass suggesting eating fruits that are coated in shit which isnt vegan. And you think risking fucking jardia or whatever its called from drinking out of a dirty lake and shitting liquid for several days because you dont eat meat? And where am i going to find this water source in a big city?

I never said a meat diet doesnt need to be balanced but it doesnt have to be nearly as wild as a vegan whos trying to get all their vitimans from the day.

I shouldnt complian about protein powder but thats another story.

And yea. I supplement fish oil because I lack fish in my diet. Not because my skin is dark and I take it out of my diet just to take supplement to get nutrients for. Fish is very exensive and the cheap ones contain a lot of mercury.

>>40717428
I don't want to look like an emaciated faggot like 90% of vegans.

>>40721395
Fat soluble doesn't mean you need to eat fat with it to digest it. It means they are stored in fat cells long term and could be toxic if you chronically take too much, but this depends on which vitamin and in what form. Vitamin K for example is not toxic and has no upper limit, and Vitamin A from plants similarly has no upper limit. That's because the Vitamin A in plants is in the form of beta-carotene which is a Vitamin A precursor. Vitamin A from animals does have an upper limit, but this usually only affects people taking animal-derived Vitamin A supplements.

I am joking about using a dirty lake as a water source. My point there is that because we no longer drink from dirty lakes, we either need to get our B-12 from animals or from a vitamin supplement. I chose the latter.

Honestly I don't go out of my way to watch all my micros. I just take a B-12 supplement and a vitamin d supplement. Other than that Cronometer always shows my levels as good at the end of the day.

>>40721466
Most meat eaters look like unhealthy piles of fat and cottage cheese.

>>40717604
jesus christ that is such a load of bullshit.
Homeopathy is not by any measure the end all be all of medicine but it can be surprisingly effective. I swear though these guys are just making it sound more and more ridiculous.

>>40721335

The same set of links, you post them in every thread about vegans, people respond to them, and then you go away and wait for a new thread to post it in.

First 2 papers are looking at macrobiotic diets specifically, which are very low-calorie diets based around brown rice and vegetables. Kids on these very restricted, low-cal diets didn't grow as much as kids on more varied calorie-dense diets. The first paper notes that vegetarian childrens' diets met more nutrient RDAs than the omnivorous children, who had insufficient iron intake. How ironic.

>vegan diet causes rickets

The first thing the paper says is that rickets is caused by vitamin D deficiency and at one point was the most common metabolic bone disease-- and vegan diets were never the most common diet in America. The paper goes on to list 3 individual cases of rickets in Vitamin D deficient vegetarian children, and they go on to say that they encourage vitamin D supplementation (and many foods are now fortified with vitamin D, not for the sake of vegans), and that the children may have avoided deficiency in the first place if they had sun exposure. As is the case with everyone, if you don't eat fortified foods, take a supplement, or get adequate sunlight, you risk vitamin D deficiency.

Next link you quote mine to make it seem like it's a study finding birth complications with vegetarian diets when it clearly says there's no higher incidence.

In the link after, the article begins with "a well-balanced vegetarian diet can provide for the needs of children and adolescents" and ends with "well-planned vegetarian and vegan diets with appropriate attention to specific nutrient components can provide a healthy alternative lifestyle at all stages of fetal, infant, child and adolescent growth " and then it simply gives nutrition advice for people looking to eat a vegetarian diet, and further along says that vegetarian diets offer some health advantages.

>>40721395
Try a vegan diet for 21 days. Worst case scenario you ate a bunch of vegetables and leafy greens, and you learn how to cook some new healthy dishes for yourself.

Switching was a lot easier than I thought it would be. Basically bought a bunch of vegetables, grains, tofu, imitations meats, breads, and almond milk. I rarely eat the imitation meats though. They are good but expensive. Take B-12 and Vitamin D supplements and give it a try.

>>40721506
>>40721203

The rest are individual cases of a parents failing to ensure adequate B12 for their children. It's unfortunate but it's not the inevitable result of a vegan having a child and it's not a common occurance.

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Going full vegan is unecessary unless some ethical personal reasons. C

For health, looks and energy, just eliminate all dairy and get most of the calories from rice, pasta, potatos etc. startches. Cook with less oil too, not too healthy. All vegetable oils included.

>>40721526
I like how every time a retard vegan doesn't take B12 supplements it's hurr durr vegan diets are shit. But every time a meat eater is deficient or dies of a heart attack it's not news.

>>40721536
As a vegan, I agree. Eating healthier is a good idea for everyone regardless of their moral and ethical beliefs. Veganism is the healthiest diet as vegans have the most normal BMI and are the healthiest in the population.

>>40717428
>Lol muh clogged arteries
Well yeah, if you compare a fat fuck who eats meat to some skinny vegan rather than a fit fuck who eats meat to some hippo who eats half the grasslands of a small farm and enough potatoes to starve Ireland again.

>>40721555
Vegans have better metabolic indicators than meat eaters than runners that run over 48 miles a week.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17518696

>>40721472
>>>40721395
>Fat soluble doesn't mean you need to eat fat with it to digest it
Yes it does. A vegan that does not grasp basic biological concepts, nothing new.

Ex vegan here. Im gonna let you niggas in on a little something, this is the result of my autism so take it as you will

Diet should be pretty much entirely vegetables. Berries and tomatoes are alright too since they have antioxidants. For the most part fruits are just less good vegetables so you dont really need them. Also dont forget your sea veggies

A 2oz serving of grass fed beef heart a day and grass fed 100% whey for protein shakes are the only animal products you should be eating. This gives you B12, Q10, heme iron, preformed vitamin A, favorable AA profile, and allows your body to easily produce creatine, taurine, and caritine. Dont use this as an excuse to eat other animal products though

Flaxseed oil and vegan algae oil which has DHA/EPA should be used to balance your omega3:6 ratio so it is about 4:1

nuts and beans have phytic acid which basically rob you of nutrients so dont eat them you can get plenty of protein from the foods I mentioned above

no reason to eat grains veggies have tons of carbs and are way more nutrient dense

cook veggies with coconut oil. Also add a dash of pink Himalayan salt, salt is good for your body in small amounts

>>40721506
Yes, all the problems you described are stated in those studies and all the problems are caused by the vegan diet.

>>40721522
I've done that before. I had no energy and my lifts suffered. I was also unable to get 100% hard.

>>40721548
>Veganism is the healthiest diet
No. Everytime a vegan thread gets made on fit you get btfo everytime. We've proven over and over again that veganism causes nutritional deficiencies and problems for the person, caused by the vegan diet.

>>40721571
Did you even read anything in that study? Retard

>>40721611

>Diet should be pretty much entirely vegetables
>grass fed
>nuts and beans have phytic acid which basically rob you of nutrients so dont eat them
>no reason to eat grains veggies have tons of carbs
>cook veggies with coconut oil.
>pink Himalayan salt

Computing... computing.... CONCLUSION REACHED:

.
.
.
.
.
Retard.

>>40721630
Do tell, what specific meats should I add to my vegan diet and how would they improve it for me?

>>40721630

>we've proven it! I'm a winner! *sucks thumb and rocks back and forth*

>>40721538

>But every time a meat eater is deficient or dies of a heart attack it's not news.

Or when it is reported in the news, it's not pointed out that they're a meat eater.

Remember when that woman attempted to climb Mt. Everest and died by altitude sickness? "Vegan woman dies trying to climb mountain, probably didn't eat enough protein, dumb bitch." On the same climb, a meat eater died of the same thing, "Inspiring hero climber faces unfortunate demise on mountain top-- freak accident". In the suggested/similar articles space, "woman, 32, suffers stroke."

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>eating moss
okay kiddo

>>40721671
I didn't say that. We post study after study of unbiased, peer reviewed sources proving that the vegan diet is a shit diet and you never have anything to say. Every thread, over and over

>>40717440
Ironically most vegans are cows themselves

>>40721754

>We post study after study of unbiased, peer reviewed sources proving that the vegan diet is a shit diet and you never have anything to say

Where did that occur in this thread or any thread in the archive?

>>40721775
All of them. Are you just going to ignore the block of studies I posted proving that veganism is unhealthy for children? Typical

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>>40721664
>what specific meats

You don't need to be autistic about it. Eat meat that you like.

>no, I absolutely do need to be autistic about it

Oh, okay. Canned cold water fish, duck and chicken livers and crab legs.

>how would they improve it for me?

They'd add back the nutrients you've been starving yourself of, particularly the protective fats and cholesterol that the soy industry has slandered for decades.

The crab legs are actually just because crab is delicious.

>>40717440
Try 0 out of all because they all have shit personalities.

>>40721792

>All of them

Hahaha. Perfect.

>Are you just going to ignore the block of studies I posted proving that veganism is unhealthy for children?

Did you not see the response? >>40721506 >>40721526

Is that what you would hang your hat on?

>>40721796

> the protective fats and cholesterol that the soy industry has slandered for decades.

Sometimes it's hard to promote meat without sounding like a loon

>>40721814
Yes I saw those two responses. They did not support anything they said with sources so I ignored them.

>>40721832

>They did not support anything they said with sources so I ignored them.

It's a response to the sources provided. An evaluation of the evidence YOU gave.

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>meanwhile in the real world
>eat all the meat and other garbage
>have better bloods than 99% of vegans

>>40721852
>It's a response to the sources provided
A response made with unsubstantiated claims.

I'm not vegan, but most of the arguments against veganism are so fucking stupid, they make me ashamed to be a meat eater. "MMM TASTY COWS, HUMANS ARE STRONG PREDITOR" is not a moral argument, it's what teenage edgelords say to feel better about their pathetic lives.
>I'm the apex predator! It doesn't matter that I get out of breath running a mile and have never so much as killed a chicken

>>40721879
How can you have better blood, when you post a picture of a crypt?

>>40720497
Holy shit, you actually believe plant farmers are colluding against meat farmers? They're owned by the same fucking people. Considering 2% of the population is vegetarian, and like 0.5% are vegan, that would be one dumb fucking conspiracy to try and profit from.

idk what to say when as Vegans people can still eat tons of sugar and sweets, yet god forbid they ate a piece of meat.
idk how can anyone consider this a healthy lifestyle since it blocks major protein and vitamin sources yet allows shit like sugar.

>>40721897

It's mostly quoting your own papers.

>>40721925

The ones talking about health probably aren't suggesting people eat vegan candy or don't eat protein or vitamins

>>40721926
>The rest are individual cases of a parents failing to ensure adequate B12 for their children
How did they know that and what is supporting this belief?

>>40721962
meat eaters get 2nd hand protein sure, but no one in this thread talks about how both HDL and LDL aren't even types of cholesterol... if we can't get pass that OP's picture then there's no point even in discussing the results of early atkins diet vs other diets in men with cardiovascular problems.

body on keto handles LDL HDL distribution suprisingly well, but it focuses on two things vegans don't eat in abundance.
if a Vegan has no morality issues with this and claims "muh logic" argument he or she should have nothing but praise for keto after seeing the results.

i'd say moderation is key. 40 years ago meat was a luxury meal same as fish, to be had once or twice a week. sugar was a fucking rarity too. nothing bad with it in small ammounts.
i believe average joe is so full of sugar atm that comparing any dedicated diet to it will seem that dedicated diet is better.

but compared to an individual who eats well balanced sugar free meals and using up all the sources of protean, I believe they would not bode so good.

>>40717458
(you)

>>40717519
Explain

>>40722044

What do you mean? That's the topic of the papers. Rare, individual cases of a child suffering some B12 deficiency disease.

>>40722091

>if we can't get pass that OP's picture then there's no point even in discussing the results of early atkins diet vs other diets in men with cardiovascular problems.

Post what you're referring to and I'll show you where your interpretation of it is mistaken. There's 2 I'm familiar with and they're both commonly taken out of context.

>>40722091
>meat was a luxury
ok lol

>>40722206
where are you from? i can put it in another term.
if you are usa, we cant really talk you guys did not have plumming while europe ate with a spoon and fork so...
if you are from europe, i'm talking about the pre sugar era and pre mass production era, I'm really not going to account last 50 years because of two world wars and canned good industry. think before that, and meat was a luxury.

>>40722154
I can't find the study atm, but just so we are clear we are on the same page would you say either HDL or LDL are bad, or would you say that the way body uses it differently in different types of nutrition - is the problem?

>>40722247
quoted myself and caught myself being stupid. in the top post i said 40 years ago then I said Im not going to count 50 years ago. I'll just leave quietly.

>>40722247

> just so we are clear we are on the same page would you say either HDL or LDL are bad, or would you say that the way body uses it differently in different types of nutrition - is the problem?

I'm not sure what you mean by the body using it differently in different types of nutrition. HDL is likely to be beneficial up to a certain point although it's complicated, while LDL above a certain point is clearly bad, and most people struggle to get it to a healthy level.

>>40717428
There is no difference in cardiovascualre disease between vegans and health-conscious people with a normal diet. Just because the average guy has a horrible diet doesnt mean that meat is bad.

>>40722287

Really? You've researched this?

>>40717428
>studies that compared health-conscious meat eaters and vegans show there is almost no difference between the two
The reason why vegans seem healthier is because the average vegan is upper-middle class and predisposed to watching their diet.
If you magically turned all of America vegan but left their attention to healthy eating at the same level - you'd see no significant improvement in overall health. They'd be stuffing themselves with fried rice, soda and soy ice-cream.

>>40722293
i cant find the study now, but some vegan posted a bunch of studies, and one of them showed vegans were superior compared to the average guy, but there was no difference between health-concious people with a normal diet and vegans/vegetarians.

Also the china study about meat consumption linked to cancer was flawed. It was an observational study and people who ate more meat also tended to be, overweight, moved less, had a poor diet, and ate more heavily processed meat.

>>40722318

That's just what people tell themselves so they don't have to think any harder about things.

>>40695038

>>40722318
>The reason why vegans seem healthier is because the average vegan is upper-middle class and predisposed to watching their diet.

and the average Joes diet is horrible. Its not varied, has almost no fruit or vegetables.
Any diet with any amount of fruit and veggies, or even just a reduction in candy and fast food will show good results.

>>40722277
did you read on how body handles both on ketosis maybe, I'm asking as you seem to be willing to research things, while I am running to work, I believe I stumbled across some interesting things when my friend told me some articles convinced him that coconut oil is full of bad cholesterol.

thing is, comparing to averages sucks because it does not allow you to get a real comparison. I am sure I would measure as a healthier individual than an average vegan, not because my health is superb but because there are so many fad vegans and vegetarians who don't eat healthy enough.

>>40722353

> some vegan posted a bunch of studies, and one of them showed vegans were superior compared to the average guy, but there was no difference between health-concious people with a normal diet and vegans/vegetarians.

Look for it because I'd like to read it

>Also the china study about meat consumption linked to cancer was flawed. It was an observational study and people who ate more meat also tended to be, overweight, moved less, had a poor diet, and ate more heavily processed meat.

No offense but you don't understand what that study involved if you think it could've been confounded by any of those basic things. It's described as the most comprehensive study on human nutrition and health outcomes (at the time at least). The depth they went to in collecting and analyzing their data was insane. Of course, like all studies it does has its flaws. It's not a bad piece of research overall, but anyone who would refer to it alone as proof of something is in a bad position. People usually confuse the study itself, the Cornell-Oxford China Study, which was the massive collaboration between Cornell and Oxford University and the Chinese government, with the book, "The China Study," written by one of the Cornell researchers. The study is pretty good as a piece of data while the book is more hypothetical and controversial.

>>40722402

>did you read on how body handles both on ketosis maybe

No, I'm not sure what you're talking about there. I haven't ready anything like that. I do know websites that talk about keto diets tend to be pretty quackish though, so read with skepticism.

>thing is, comparing to averages sucks because it does not allow you to get a real comparison.

To some degree, sure, but it's also a big strawman in these threads to say that studies are only comparing special healthy vegans to particularly unhealthy meat eaters. >>40722359

>>40720110
im glad that people who legitimately think this way are willingly removing themselves from the gene pool by going vegan in the first place

>>40722449
>It's described as the most comprehensive study on human nutrition and health outcomes

It's also called the greatest and most damaging nutritional scam ever. It's been completely shreded many times. And there is a youtube video that outright rips it several new assholes.

>>40720287
1. morals are an abstraction--they do not exist in physical reality.
2. just because we expect certain standards of interpersonal behavior from other human beings doesn't mean that there is this axiom that exists "animals are good and to harm them is evil"

these fucking pozzed up college yuppie queerbait faggots who have more sympathy for animals than human beings because they're egomaniac narcissist fucks who grew up in their bedrooms or being taught in government schools by female teachers need to fucking kill themselves if humanity is to survive

>>40722449
>It's described as the most comprehensive study on human nutrition and health outcomes (at the time at least). The depth they went to in collecting and analyzing their data was insane. Of course, like all studies it does has its flaws.

It was an observational study. You cant link anything with observational studies. They can only give you a pointer to what to further research.
You need randomized controlled studies to show a realiable connection.

>>40720301
>am taking philosophy right now
sounds about right
and no, we all can't agree that it's wrong to cause harm and suffering to living things. the fact that you make that assumption is indicative of the tremendous bumble-fuck trolley-train of inane conclusions you have certainly drawn about how things ought to be

>>40717428
>hot vegan girls are also usually the girls with crazy eyes or tumblrina retards these days
>meat is delicious and natural for us to eat
>especially game meats like rabbit and bison
>i'm not a faggot

Fight for better treatment of animals used for meat rather than people to not eat meat. A lot of people in America, more than you think, live off meat they hunt during hunting season, do you think you'll convince those people to quit eating it? No.

It's better to encourage the government to protect animals more from industrial farming and for farms to go pasture-raised. Happier animals, tastier meat, everyone wins.

clarence0 VEGAN
ilya ilyin VEGAN
GET REKT

>>40722511

By who? Aside from a catty response letter from Walter Willett after T. Colin Campbell criticized one of his research papers, most of the criticism of the study comes from non-professional bloggers shilling low carb diets

>>40722537

>It was an observational study. You cant link anything with observational studies
>You need randomized controlled studies to show a realiable connection.

Don't be that guy. I already said one study shouldn't be presented as proof but disparaging the entire field of epidemiology is some dumb shit the tobacco industry used to do. By your standards, we can't really link smoking to lung cancer either. RCTs are great when they're possible and practical but they aren't always. We do have biological plausibility though. Heart disease is the most obvious.

Meat increases the amount of LDL cholesterol circulating in your bloodstream

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7019459

Elevations in LDL increase risk of heart disease

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3572442/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3603726/

Meat increases LDL because it contains saturated fat and dietary cholesterol

http://www.bmj.com/content/314/7074/112.long

Consequently, vegans and vegetarians have lower LDL cholesterol levels

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17364116

Which in part gives them lower heart disease rates

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24871675

>>40717428
Because chickens are delicious and fun to kill.

Eating meat today is like smoking in the 1950's.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4YOe_--O4jk

>>40722997

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=roHsEDy2atM

>>40721522
I tried to go vegan a couple months back and lasted about 21 days actually. My gyno got a fuck ton worse and i got incontinence after about 14 days, and noticed some strength loss as well. The second I switched back to a regular balanced diet all the problems went away. I'm now flexitarian and legit believe this is the best diet out there. I eat meat or dairy for half my meals maybe, and the other half will be vegan.

>>40720110

I'm a philosophy minor and the moral argument does not bother me. Morals and ethics vary between societies, and since I live in scandinavia the animals are relatively well off before slaughter anyways. If a society has agreed that it is not wrong to kill animals for food, then there's no problem. Read David Hume or something to find out more I guess.

The most appealing argument toward veganism, I think, is that it's better for the environment. However, this does not mean that veganism is better as an absolute, so it's also great if someone eats lots of plant based foods along with chicken and sustainably caught fish.

>>40718623
Wow I can't believe how nearly everything there is complete quackery

>>40721002
>you can get b12 from eating animal shit


If animal milk isn't vegan, neither is animal shit senpai.

>>40722662
do any of these studies control for activity level and nutritional knowledge or is it Joe Flyover's 5 Big Macs a Day Diet vs. a balanced vegan diet?

because otherwise it's false comparisons