Post your PPL routines here. I really wanna try it and I'm

>>40676931
Day 1: Push Exercices/
Day 2: Pull exercices
Day3: Rest

>>40676931
Day 1: I push old people
Day 2: I pull old people back
Day 3: I steal their legs

does anyone else do scooby's ppl?

Push :
Barbell press
Incline barbell press
dips
close grip bench
overhead trcieps extensions
Dumbbell front raise
Dumbbell lateral raise

Pull :
Pull ups
Dumbbell rowing
Traps
Curl EZ Bar
Cross arm curl
curl on bench

Legs:
Squat
Squat
Squat
Dumbbell calf raises
Lying leg curl with dumbbell / hamstring raises

(homegym)

>>40676985
W-what do you do with all the legs?

>>40676959
>PPL
>no legs

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>>40677127

>>40676931
Mirin that bulge on leg day, couldnt squat 4pl8 with so little blood in my legs

Sumo Deadlift 1x5 / Rows 3x5
Close Underhand / Wide Overhand Pulldowns 3x10
Face Pulls 4x15
Wide / Close Curls 4x10
Incline / Standing Hammer curls 3x10
Plate / BB shrugs 4x15
Reverse Forearm Curls 4x20

OHP 3x5 / Bench 3x5
OHP 3x10 / Bench 3x10
Incline Bench 3x10
Side Lat Raise 4x15
V-bar / Rope pushdowns 4x10
French Press 4x10
Finger Curls 4x10

Back squat 3x5 / 3x10 (if sumo cycle)
Standing / Seated Calf Raise 4x15
RDL / Hamstring Curl 3x10
BB Hack Squats 4x10
Hip Thrusts / Glute Bridge 4x10

>>40677127
Do legs during the PP part.

Every day is legs day, fuck having a legs day you'll just end up skipping it everytime.

Push A)
5x3 Bench Press
5x8 OHP

Push B)
5x3 OHP
5x8 Bench

Pull:
5x5 Weighted Neutral Grip
5x8 Weighted Chinups
5x12 Unweighted Pullups

Legs A
5x3 Heavy Squats
5x10 Squats

LegsB
10x5 Deadlifts

All lifts at maximum weight for that rep scheme. No accessories

>>40676931
What's this shitty powerlifting bench form in the left picture?
We all know that being flat back legs in the air results in optimal chest activation.

>>40677245
Forgot to add, this is 6x a week
PushA/LegsB/Pull/PushB/Legs A/Pull/X

>>40677139
>>40677127
>>40676959
I have a leg day just to rest my arms, so I treat it more as a rest day.

>>40676931
when to start ppl? after 2 years?

>>40677299
whenever you want. i started out on ppl

>>40676931
All on the same day
Legs: squat
push: bench or overhead press
pull: deadlift or weighted chinups

repeat 3x a week with a fuckton of accessory work that I'm not going to bother putting into a semi-shitpost for some random dyel to ignore

>>40677299
I ran Texas Method after Starting Strength, before going to PPL. TM was ok, but I wish I would have run PPL Right after SS, as Strength isn't my primary concern.
Looking back, I'd recommend anyone run PPL after SS, as long as you're eating enough. Or on Juice.
If you're trying to stay lean, I'd run Upper/Lower, or even PPLUL. PPLPPLX is just too intense unless you're at a +700 cal surplus.

>>40676931
Guys, how do i know what volume to use on a ppl routine, i always do 1 compound and 1 accessory for evry big muscle and 1 exercise for arms/abs in the end, what do you think? Im pretty much close to intermediate but less volume makes the days too fucking short

A:
Bench
Incline db press
Db flys
Dips
Skullcrushers

B:
Pullups
Chinups
Db rows
Curls
Hammers curls

C:
Military press
Lateral raises
Squats
Romanian deadlifts

Ab-wheel whenever, usually every second or third day.

ABCxABCx

3x8-10 everything

Only want ottermode but am a skelly so still need to lift.

Rate?

>>40677338
Depends on Calories. If you're at a surplus, do your 5-10 sets for strength and then do like 10 more working sets.
If you're dieting/cutting and on a 5-6 day rotation PPL, Do your intensity sets and gtfo

>>40676931
>PPL

Squat is a push movement. Why aren't you calling it push/pull?

>>40677342
If you want Ottermode, you need to diet. Your routine won't mean shit compared to calories. If you want to be lean, just do 5 hard, high intensity sets of 1-2 compounds each day and go home. This will let you diet harder and cut body fat (since you're not absolutely exhausting yourself) while still stressing your muscles to keep them.

>>40677139
Why isn't dom posted more here?

>>40677331
mind sharing your routine?

programming has to be the most bullshit infested area of this shit, no way to know it feels like.

Would you change anything for bulking/cutting phases?

Can anyone recommend a decent upper/lower split without deadlifts?

>>40677074
looks overloaded desu, also on pull day too much arms and not enough back

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>>40677389

I run Upper/Lower now, since I'm cutting. I run 5/3/1 BBB but without the accessories, but I had to change deadlift day since I'm still rehabbing from a low back rupture a couple years ago.

When I bulk, I do it pretty slowly, as I don't want to lose my six pack (I lift for girls, lel).
Left is a pic of me after a 14 month lean bulk, right is me as of yesterday.

Unless you're on Juice, I've found you need to get stronger. I had the best possible results when I cut out the accessories and simply focused on compounds. Nothing but Bench, OHP, Weighted Chins, Squats and Deads.

For PPL (6 days), It was what I posted above >>40677245
Which pretty much as me focus on Compounds at max intensity with good volume.

For U/L (4 days), I combine Push/Pull to doing 8 sets of weighted Chinups after my Push days. I can't run a PPLUL or even PPL without eating more than 700 over TDEE (I end up hurt every time I try), which I wasn't willing to do.

Accessories are Bullshit, unless you're on a heavy bulk or on Juice. Don't fuck around and waste your time with that, just focus on huge, heavy compounds. It takes an assload of focus and it's tough as hell mentally to lift at max intensity on low calories, but that's why most people look like shit without Juice (And in some cases, even with it).

Oh, and Diet is by far the most important part. Weigh every calorie, don't cheat meal, etc. Nutrition is inifinitely more important than programming.

>>40677407
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=149807833

http://imgur.com/gallery/3u6aY

do deadlifts

>>40677192
that volume when plates are still enough weight for shrugs? take that down bro, oh and why 2 times a day ohp or bench wtf

>>40677503
>that volume when plates are still enough weight for shrugs
wat
>2 times a day ohp or bench wtf
ppl is inherently a high volume routine and i respond well to it

>>40677489

Poor guy can't afford gym, I invested in my homegym, so don't have any machines. And I heard ppl = arms lack so I try to compensate. thanks :)

>>40677381
Believe or not I still need to build some muscle or else I'll look terrible. My muscles are not existent, I definitely can't just cut. I'm 5'11 150lbs and I don't know exactly what my bf% is but I'm pretty sure it's over 15%. If I cut I'll just be auschwitz.

>>40677385
Dom is our Brofessor, his quotes are wisdom and his swoly bible our holy book. Dom shall rule again here

>>40677546
Bulk slowly with PHUL for until October, then Cut hard.
Next spring you'll be shreded.

>>40677407
You looking for half body routine then ? No need for deadlifts

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>>40676931
Shit, thats the same pic I used to photoshop mafia guy.

>>40677597
"Caught ya mirin" reminded that one Sir comic

>>40677498
thanks for the reply, really appreciate it. Really like the focus on compounds, but what is "good volume"?

Will def try U/L as I'm gonna cut for summer

>>40677245
This look good. How much time are you spending each session? Being able to do under 40min per session would be GOAT for me.

>>40677074
Im literally cracking up at ur fucking curls

You got 2 main exercises for the back, which is a huge fucking muscle group, and then after semi hitting biceps, you isolate them with 3 more exercises. Fucking kill yourself ROFL

>>40677498
Looking good, man. How tall are you?
I think I'll try your PPL, looks solid.

>>40677498
i know nutrition is super important. but how important is the source of your empty cals?

like for instance i only eat 1 time a day and i eat 2k cals of rice veggies and chicken, what about that last 1k cal. do i need to fill it with more rice or can i fill that with other empty cals like chips, popcorn, ice, whatever.

i already have my minerals and vitamins so does it matter how you fill out the last 1k cals?

>>40677245
so that would be

AAPBB right ?
from monday to friday?

>push
bench
various chest exercises and supersets
various tricep exercises and supersets

>pull
DL
weighted pull-ups
various back exercises and supersets
various bicep exercises and supersets

>legs
OHP
various shoulder exercises and supersets
squats
various leg exercises and supersets

PPLPPLX

>>40677513
the shrug is a lift where you can move big weights, if you do it with pl8s your max weight is 40kg, if thats a shrug(=big) weight for you, then you are a beginner. i dont wanna shill SS or something but look at any beginner program and youll see they have less volume, even intermediate program have less volume than that routine. but hey, if you respond well to it its fine, i assume its an aesthetics focused routine anyway so theres not much to judge, but if you are that much of a beginner less voume would probably give you the same gains. and by ohp or bench twice a day wtf im just saying you could switch it up a bit, do db press, close grip bench etc, because doing the same exercise on one day is elite-level volume

>>40677541
even without machines add some barbell rows, cleans, rack pull and so on. and im just saying thats a ton of different exercises each day, no way you need all that volume, assuming you do a rather high amount of sets for everything

>>40677498
i think you could teach most guys in this thread a lot, this murderous volume everywhere is comical

Finally logged back into my trip, heh.

>>40677619
I do the 5 sets of 3-5 reps, then 5 more sets of 8. That's good volume for me, but I'm almost 30. If you're younger, you may be able to do more. Have to find your balance. Just don't let the attempt to get volume take away from the intensity of the those core working sets.

>>40677626
Takes me about 1-1.5 hours, but I take 3-4 minute rest periods...it takes me some time to mentally rev up for my next set. This can easily be done in less than an hour if you want it to, especially the lower portion, if you're focused on it.
The harder I cut, the longer rest periods I take.

>>40677649
Thanks man! I'm 6'0 and just weighed in around 184. I was 195 in the left pic.

Again, I have to stress this, nutrition > programming. Focusing your efforts into cleaning up your diet will yield far more gains than how/when you lift.
What transformed my life wasn't my time in the gym, but my time in the kitchen :). It sucks that you can't work your ass off and eat huge and look great (IE: Goku. Unless you're on Juice, that is), but that's why being shredded is such a rare accomplishment - because of its incredible difficulty. It's not easy, but it is worth it. Good luck guys.

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>>40676959

>>40677737
Sounds like you're cheating your shrugs and rushing your sets just to move the weight around.

I made my best gains on PPL, problem is that I bought some land in terrible condition (weeds, rocks, soil depletion, drainage problems etc.) and now I am landscaping it over the weekends - 10 hours of hard labour each Saturday and Sunday. On the plus side, my forearm gains are fucking crazy.

Thinking about doing a simple PHUL that won't interfere with my work on the weekends and vice versa:

UH
Flat Bench 4X10
Cable Rows 4X10
DB Seated Shoulder Press 4X10
Lat Pulldowns 4X10
Tri Pushdown/Curls/ Lateral Raise Superset 2X10

LH
Front Squats 5X10
Deadlifts 3X10
Leg Curls 2X10
Calf Raises 2X10
Cable Crunches 3X10

UP
Incline bench 5X5
BO rows 5X5

LP
Squats 3X5,1X3, 1X2
Deadlifts 3X5,1X3,1X2
Cable Crunches 3X10

Any thoughts?

>>40677687
I generally try to eat protein at every chance, but as long as you hit the general macro scheme and can fit some empty cals, go for it. Filling your optional calories with protein instead of carbs has a minimal difference, but I certainly have some ice cream/pizza with my empty cals, just to keep me sane and able to socialize with people. Go for it.

>>40677717
I did a six day rotation with PPL (PLPPLP). PPLUL was my 5 day routine, and tried to split it so I would never squat on a day that I hit my lower back the day before (to avoid injury).

>>40677765
Thanks man. The incredible volume in most programs is due to the high prevalence of Juice, which changes everything. Unless you're a very advanced, and young, lifter, the high volume is just too high to be sustainable. Consistency is the key factor to growth, after all. That, and diet ><.

>>40676931
Biggest meme routine of the decade.

>>40677687
Not the guy you're asking to.
Theoretically, ice cream, candy etc all have super high glycemic index (GI) which means that as soon as you eat this, it's already breakdown in glucose and running through your blood. Through various physiological process that are too detailed to explain here, all that blood sugar starts a insulin peak in your body, and you begin a strong anabolic state, building mass: muscle + fat, but far more fat than muscle. The "healthier" the carb, usually the lower its GI, usually also associated with slow digest contents (fiber, complex sugars etc). This mean that instead of "peaking" insulin, your body will sustain a more reasonable and way longer insulin run through your blood, meaning longer and more "proper" anabolic state.

Another point to take in consideration when eating carbs is that is well acknowledge that high blood sugar is associated with high inflammatory state. Inflammation is credited as the basis of many chronic diseases. To put it simply, when you're eating simple/refined sugars, the blood sugar level gets high so quickly that there's not enough protein available to carry all that sugar; so that sugar runs free through your blood, scraping the internal walls of your veins and arteries, especially the smaller ones (capillaries); starting a micro-inflammation for healing of that tissue. Once that the internal walls are "scraped", it's easier for fat to accumulate there (atherosclerosis), to pathogens install themselves (infection) etc.

But... all in all most people will care only about the looks. If your family has no history of the diabetes, then calories in/calories out will suffice (for looks), and eating a bow of oatmeal or ice cream will be pretty much the same, regarding calories only.

ps sorry for any writing mistake; I'm not used to write in english

>>40677541
3 sets per exercices 6-8 reps, what do you think about it?

>>40677768

U/L

Mon
BP 5x3
OHP 5x8
W. Chins 8x5

Tue
Squat 5x3, 5x8

Thu
OHP 5x3
BP 5x8
W. Chins 8x5

Fri
DL 5x3

Something like that? Or 5x3-5+5x8 for bench and OHP twice/week?

>>40677847
well even tho i prefer to do cheat shrugs, if i do i shrug more than i deadlift, and even with clean form 40 kg is ultra light

>>40677986
thats a lot of sets, do less sets or less exercises, this is just volume suicide

>>40678125

Looks great man. As long as you're lifting hard and eating well, you'll grow. I post here every so often here, let me know how it goes.

>>40677498
>Nutrition is inifinitely more important than programming.
I disagree. I've been making great progress on a shitty inconsistent diet these past few months. Mostly because I follow good routines. I know a lot of guys who don't track anything and still get strong as fuck because they do good routines like Sheiko.

>>40678227
thanks, really appreciate it

>>40678181
Thanks man

>>40677858
Anyone? I know this is too much volume, just not sure where to lower it.

>>40678245
I was probably unclear. I don't really mean clean, just eating right calories. Some guys make a ton of progress because they're ok with eating a ton and putting on a lot of mass.
Some people don't eat enough, or eat too much. If you want to get lean, while staying huge, most people need to dial in on their exact calorie count.
You can get huge, or you can get lean, without tracking cals. To do both requires a significantly increased awareness of one's nutrition. Or juice.

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>>40676931
Anything else is for weak faggots

>>40676931
Push: chest/tris
flat bench 5x5
incline press machine 4x8
fly machine 7 sets pyramid
weighted dips 3xf
tricep machine 3x12
pull downs 3x10
tricep kick backs 3x10

Pull: back/bis
DL 7 sets pyramid to a set of 5
weighted pull ups 3xf
weighted chin ups 3xf
bent over rows 4x10
cable rows 5 sets pyramid
curl machine 4x10
db hammer curls 4x10
preacher curls 4x10

legs: legs and shoulders
front or back squats 5x5
leg press 7 sets pyramid to a set of 8
reverse lunges 3x12
DB ohp pyramid 7 sets
front raises 3x10
side laterals 3x10
reverse flyes 7 sets pyramid
over head flyes 3x10
35 minute spin class afterwards

Ab work every single time always varies.
And I run at minimum a mile before I start every single time

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I do shoulders on leg day, is there anything wrong with this? Also Any changes you want to suggest?

>Push
Bench press
Incline Bench
Decline Bench
Pec dec or Dumbbell flys or cable fly
Close grip bench
dips
Skull crusher
Overhead tricep extension (With cable or dumbbells, which ever is available)
tricep pushdown with rope

>Pull
Rack pulls
Lat pull downs
Seated cable rows
Standing Lat Pushdown
Barbell curl
Alternating dumbell curl
Hammer curl

>Legs& Shoulders

Squats
Leg press
Leg extension
Leg curl
seated Calf raises
OHP
Dumbbell press
Lat raises
Front Dumbbell Raise

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>>40678377
>>40678387
>they don't build momentum

>>40678330
Fuck off Mike t

>>40678387
BRRRRRRRAAAAAAAAAAAPPPPPPP

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>>40676931

RATE MINE

push:

bench 5x5
ohp 3x5
cable chest flies 3x12

pull:

chinups 3x8
clsoe grip cable rows 3x12
curls 3x12

legs:

squat 5x5
deadlift 1x5
some ab exercise 3x12

>>40678421
what do you mean by this?

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>>40678477
>he hasn't been educated about the doctrine of momentum

>>40678181
Really? I shoot for no more than 25 sets per day. I thought that was the upper limit of normal for natty. I feel like I would be underworking if I did just 12 sets.

I think people overestimate how fatiguing volume is. People act like your body will collapse under that volume, but I manage just fine and I do it on 5-6 hours of sleep.

>>40678547
ok fuck off then troll

>>40676931
I ran PPLPPLX but I am cutting now.
Which program/frequency should I do until I inished my cut?

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>>40678561
He doesnt troll×1@8

>Not doing full body 4x a week
Weak shits.

>>40676985
kek

>>40677074
this is me except more shoulders on push and replacing all but one curl on pull. looks good otherwise senpai

>>40676931
>Upper body over 3 day split. Same Idea as PPL but I might do:
>Chest/tris
>Lat/shoulders
>Bicep forearms
If I wanted to do legs, which I don't I'd throw a leg session 1 time a week.

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Push

Flat Barbell Bench Press: 3x5
Dumbbell Shoulder 3x8
Incline Dumbell/machine Press: 3x5/3x12(machine)
Dumbbell Side Lateral Raise: 3x10-12
Rope Pushdowns 3x10-12
Overhead Dumbbell Extension: 3x10-12
Shrugs: 3x10-12

Pull (Back/Biceps):

Barbell Rows: 3x5
Lat Pulldowns: 3x8-10
Seated Rows : 3x8-10
Face-pulls: 3x-10-12
Barbell Bicep Curls : 4x-10-12
Choice of one other bicep exercise (typically Hammer Curls): 3x10-12

Legs (Quad/Ham/Calves):

Barbell Squats: 4x5-6
Leg Press: 3x8-10
Leg Extensions: 3x10-12
Hamstring Curls: 3x10-12
Standing Calf Raises : 5x10-12

Takes about 40 mins each day, depeneding on resting periods.

PCPPCPC
C=cycling + some light leg and shoulder exercises at home

Push:
Bench
Incl DB bench
Dips
CC or random chest machine
2 Triceps exercises

Pull:
Chinups
Wide lat pulldown
DB row
Random row
Face pulls
2 Biceps exercises

If there's bad weather on cardio day I do
Front squats
DB lunges
OHP
Lat raises
Shrugs

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>>40677724
>God-Tier.
Exactly how I draft out my routines. Alternate rep schemes and get into chad mode. SS is for autisms who say shit like "check out my quad flex" to other guys. I really feel like SS is for sub-normies.

>reddit
https://www.reddit.com/r/Fitness/comments/37ylk5/a_linear_progression_based_ppl_program_for/

Still got 2-3 weeks of my cut left, how's this for a routine to bulk with

>>40676931

Push

Bench 3x5
OHP 5x5 @85% Rep weight
Skull Crushers 3x10
Lateral Raises 3x10
Cable Crossover 3x10
Abs 3x10

Pull

Squat 3x5
Weighted Pullups 3x5
Deadlift 3x5 @ 85% rep weight
Rows 3x5 @85% rep weight
Curl 3x10
Calves 3x10

X

Push

OHP 3x5
Bench 1 Sec Pause 5x5 @85% rep weight
Close-grip Bench 3x8
Incline DB Press 3x10
Lateral Raises 3x10
Abs 3x10

Pull

Deadlift 1x5
Row 3x5
Squat 5x5 @85% rep weight
Pull-ups 3x Failure
Curls 3x10
Calves 3x10

X

X

>>40678558
Bumping

How many working sets is too many?

Push
Flat bench/incline switched off every other
Ohp
Weighted dips
Landmine press
Lat raises


Pull
Rack pulls knee level
Power shrugs
T-bar rows
One armed t-bar rows since my dumbell got sold which I used for kroc rows
Concentration curls
Wrist roller with pull ups after the sets
Legs
Leg press
Calf raises
Bb glute bridges
Good mornings
Landmine twists

>>40678558
thats what i did wrong at first too, i went to the gym, did something SS like, went home with zero exhaustion. then i upped the volume more and more and even tho i hit a total of 30 sets or something i didnt make any progress. a lot of people can handle volume like its nothing, the question is: are your weights increasing at a reasonable rate? if yes, keep doing what you do until this changes, if no, try less volume. 25 sets for a full body would be fine already, look at SS with a total of 11 sets per day i think.

for a ppl you need to get used to spending less time at the gym in a session and feeling less exhausted than after fullbody. my point is that as a beginner and maybe even at 1/2/3/4 and later you feel like you can handle volume but you actually cant, its not about rea symptoms but the speed of progress.
and theres no real upper limit, but if there was one then you wouldnt want to hit it unless you are close to reaching your natty potential

>>40678904
>are your weights increasing at a reasonable rate?
No, and it's so frustrating and why I hoped somebody would answer. I used to do fewer sets, but progress was slow so I upped the volume. All the hypertrophy shit people talk about says more volume = more gains, so that's what I've tried, but I'm embarrassed at how little progress I've made over such a long period of time. I know lack of adequate sleep is a factor (I have a toddler), but that can't be the whole story.

"Spend less time in the gym" feels so unintuitive. I've wondered whether lack of intensity was an issue, but I lift the weight until my arms can't lift it again. I drop down weight mid set a lot of times because I'm working to the point where I can't finish the set with the starting weight. I don't know how I could increase intensity, but clearly I'm doing something wrong or I'd be stronger and look better.

>>40679033
Here's my suggestion.

Do 7 reps. Do 3-5 sets if you want, but do something you have trouble but can do for 7 reps.

If you complete your full set without missing reps, move up in weight 2.5 - 5 pounds. If you fail a set, do the same weight next time. If you fail again, decrease by 5 pounds and start over. Or try again, whatever.

That's how I started making gains on my bench. Now I'm just fucking around and doing whatever for however many reps I can, but I want to go back to that, since I don't like increasing weight when I can only do 260 for 3 reps.

>>40679113
Nevermind just read your thing. Try 5 reps then. Cut down on the curls too.

My arms have grown a lot more ever since I cut down on isolations to 1 or 2 and upped the compound work.

>>40678568
Pls respond

>>40679113
That's close to what I was doing. I shoot for 4-6 reps. Once I can do each set with a given weight for 6 reps, I move up in weight.

But instead of getting better weekly, it takes weeks to make progress. I've been stuck at 65 lb dumbbells for bench for a long time now and I can't finish all of my sets with that amount of weight. By set 3, I have to drop down to 60s or 55s. I feel like I'm lifting in the movie Groundhog Day, reliving the same sets over and over and over making no progress.

>>40679033
intensity isnt exactly going to faiure. after all this volume struggle i went through with zero gains(was cutting tho) i went back to simple SS, made more progress within a few weeks than i did over the previous 3 month and went on a more advanced full body routine after that and i only consider ppl again if i cut as i dont make any strength gains while cutting, and ppl is just bad for strength gains, or at least worse than fullbody. if you want strength, then you need rest. for mass, its a different tale, but rest for sure helps. if its your strength isnt moving, your looks will neither, so a fullbody routine is optimal. if you are in for mass only or on a hard enough cut to make you feel like you cant gain strength, a classic brosplit with this suicide volume may work for aesthetics.
a special tip to increase intensity is going harder at the weight. if you lay down, bench your reps until you cant anymore and rerack, you are not intense. you are intense if people start looking at you during your set, if you go hard enough to get a whole week of soreness, if you push yourself everyday with intense anger inside of you. with less than 7-8 hours of sleep i need caffeine to get this tho, maybe you should sleep more. you want to go all in on 1 or 2 main compounds and the rest is chilled accessories, dont work every set down like a robot, especially not on compounds

>>40679140
>>40679178
Oh, to clarify, I'm not that Anon and do a different routine. I only do five sets of curls at the end of pull day, not three different types of curls like a maniac.

Today, pull day consisted of:

Weighted pull ups 5x5
Bent over row 3x5
One-arm dumbbell row 3x5
Shrugs 3x5
Cable low row (narrow grip) 3x5
Face pulls 3x5
Dumbbell curls 5x10

>>40679178
Read my reply then.

Also judging by your weight, you don't seem to be at a level where you should be benching three times 3 different ways. Dumbell presses are hard to progress on too.

You need to get rid of one of those benches at least and the tricep overhead.

I'm this guy:
>>40678893
On the day I do incline press, I started decreasing my working weight with ohp and dips by 5 pounds because it's fucking hard.

For example I'm doing 180 pounds now for reps on ohp. I will decrease that tomorrow to 175 as I'm doing incline.

You can't expect to infinitely progress on all three benches when you're doing all three in one day. You need to cut some exercises, or do what I do and split them up and make different days out of them.

For example if you want to keep everything:

One push day you would do:
Flat Bench
Incline
Dips
Close grip bench if you really fucking want
Lat raises


Your next push day would be:
Dumbell press
OHP (if you can, if not keep that tricep ext)
Dips
Close grip bench if you really fucking want
Lat raises


Stop doing front raises.


That makes it a lot more reasonable, and you'll make better gains instead of benching 3... actually 4 times. I make gains anyway, would I make better gains doing incline and flat and ohp and dips on the same day? On paper, yes. But in real life that's really fucking hard and would likely impede me somewhere.

You're doing too much. Stop.

Push
>Bench press
>Bench press incline
>OHP
>Superset of lateral, front and rear delt raises
>triceps extension

Pull/Legs
>Chin-up
>Row
>Lat pulldown
>Curls
>Deadlift
>Squat


Currently deciding if I want to separate legs from pull. That would give me time for one or two more exercises on pull day. I would do abs with legs on leg day instead of doing abs at home at random days.

>>40676931
Morning routine
Squats, Pushups, chinups, till I feel a slight pump.
Five-ten minute stretching routine.

MWF Calisthenics strength training routine
Morning exercise to warm up
1-3 sets of the following with 3 minutes rest between each set and exercise.
3-5 x assistend pistol squat
5-10 x glute ham raise
1-5 x Half one arm pushup/assisted one arm pushup
3-5 3-4 finger assisted one arm chinups
1-3 knuckle handstand pushups/5-10 L pushups
15-30 sec L-sits

Curlbro routine
30sec - 3min rest between sets exercises
3-8 OHP 160-200
8-12 Benchpress 225lbs
5-12 Bent barbell row 180-200lbs
8-12 curls 80-100lbs
5-12 floor tricep extensions.

T-Th
Morning workout as a warmup
Tabata circuit of
Squats
Pushups
Pike situps
Bridges
Chinups/door pullups
Each exercise done till slight lactic acid buildup no rest between each exercise and 20-30 seconds rest between each circuit.3-5 circuits or 30 minutes nonstop.
Or
Do the 100rep pushup and other exercise altogether.
Or
Hiit
OR whatever, as long as I do something.

As some guys have said before: thinking that more volume (and/or intensity) is always better is a big pit-fall.

Sure, if you do just 5 sets total and call it a day - what the fuck are you doing.

But for the first two years of lifting: I had a tendency to increase volume just because "I don't feel like puking, rolling up in a ball and dying - like I should" and it always, always, ended with my gains grinding to a halt. Even when I knew what would happen and I saw it clear as day in my training logs, it still took me quite some time (and lots of lost gains) to finally stop doing that shit.

Don't do that. Especially on PPL: keep track of your weekly volume - not just per training session.

>>40676931

Cicada PPL.

>>40680773
I kind of wish me 10 years from now could come back in time and tell me-now what to stop fucking up.

My big question is: at one point in a natty lifter's life is it appropriate to do PPL? I get so many mixed answers on this.

My hunch right now is that I need to forgot aesthetics and volume and all the rest of it and just do a strength program.

>>40680930
>My big question is: at one point in a natty lifter's life is it appropriate to do PPL?

Full body, PHAT, PPL - they all work great for a natty looking for hypertrophy (yes, even full body:) as long as you adjust them to your max recoverable volume and don't try to turn it into a fucking strength routine because that's what you started out with (rightfully.) In my limited experience, finding your MRV and understanding how variations in intensity affect it, is the most important part to getting the most out of any programme. Otherwise you're just playing a guessing game all the time.

>My hunch right now is that I need to forgot aesthetics and volume and all the rest of it and just do a strength program.
I know you're likely not a beginner, but just want to say this: I agree that almost all beginners should start on the basic strength programes. Chances are you were sedentary. Which means that your: muscle coordination, form, mobility, strength ratios, joints, ligaments, tendonds, metabolic and MPS efficiency are most likely shit. SS/SL/whatever all take care of that better than other programes.

The problem is just that a lot of people go on inertia and keep on focusing on strength afterwards just because that's what they started with. You want to be a hobbyist power-lifter? Fine. But if your goal is mostly looking good, with still pretty good strength and fitness? Why?

Because "strength = size, for a natty?" Honestly, it's not as clear cut as people make that out to be. Theory and practice are two different things. But someone far more experienced and better educated should probably tackle that one, maybe I'm just talking out of my ass and am dead wrong on everything.

Here's what I ran:

>Push
BB bench press
Incline db bench press
Pec fly
DB OHP press
Tricep pushdown
Dips/L-sit superset

>Pull
Bent row
Deadlift
Pullups
DB curls
BB 21s
Delt fly

>Legs
Squat
Power clean
Romanian DL
Calf rise/box jump SS
Ab roller/decline crunch SS

>Cardio
Rotate between elliptical, row machine, and swimming for 40-60 minutes

Week 1: ABoCAox
Week 2: BCoABox
Week 3: CAoBCox

>>40677074
enjoy having no delts

>>40681243
mate; that's a list of exercises, not a routine. the repXset schemes matter.

>>40676931
stronglifts 5x5...try it.
https://stronglifts.com/about/

>>40680930

When you can handle the volume that most PPL demands. For most intermediate/advanced lifters, that means eating a lot. I wouldn't recommend a PPLUL without being at least 600cal surplus, and I wouldn't run PPLPPL without 800-1000+.

>>40676931
horizontal push
horizontal push assistance
vertical push
vertical push assistance

horizontal pull
horizontal pull assistance
vertical pull
vertical pull assistance

push from the floor
push from the floor assistance
pull from the floor
pull from the floor assistance

>>40681608
That only works if you already have a perfectly balances physique and want a "functionally balanced" physique. If you want the standard oversized delts and arms look then it won't work. Plus you forgot abs.

>>40677074
Overloaded front delts and zero work on rear delts

Have fun with your future shoulder problems

File: 1488688977360.png (253KB, 786x715px) Image search: [Google]

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Push:

3x8 Incline dumbbell press
3x8 dumbbell OHP
3x8 dumbbell chest press
3x12 front raises
3x12 side raises
3x12 dips
3x12 tricep extensions


PULL:
3x8 Lat pulldown
3x8 midrows
3x12 dumbbell curl
3x12 preacher curl
3x12 shrugs

LEGS:
3x8 dumbbell Squat
3x8 hamstring curls
3x8 leg raises
3x12 calf raises
>tfw no barbells in apartment gym

Looking at this now, it may be a bit overloaded. Any tips?

>>40677208
This.

Makes doing legs that much more bearable.

>>40677208
Well; then it's not PPL, is it?

>>40677074
add facepulls to your pull day desu

>>40682960
Not that guy, but my right rotator cuff is fucked in such a way that facepulls and lateral raises (but no other exercise) cause pain and weakness. It starts below where my collar-bone meets the shoulder and radiates down my lateral delt. Anyone have a clue what that is all about?

Push:
4x8 Bench Press
4x8 OHP
5x12 Side Lateral Raises
4xAMRAP Dips
3x12 Tricep Extensions

PULL:
4x10 Deadlifts
4x8 Wide/Neutral Grip Pullups
5x12 Face Pulls
4x8 Dumbell curls

LEGS:
4x8 Squats
4x8 Ham curls
4x12 Calf-raises
4xAMRAP leg raises
4xfailure plank

Can someone please critique? Thank you very much.

I do Push/Pull/Cardio instead

Push:
Flat Bench (alternate days barbell/dumbell)
Squat
Incline/Dips alternating each workout
OHP
Lateral Raises
Skullcrushers/Tricep extensions
Weighted Crunches

Pull:
Deads
Chinups
Reverse Grip Barbell Rows
Pullups (alternating with chinups each workout)
Facepulls
Hammer Curls

>>40683339
You must be joking

File: Screenshot_20170130-030247.png (558KB, 1440x2560px) Image search: [Google]

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>>40676931
Except I split the leg day and included them in the push and pull sessions and added deadlift in pull session. No time for a 4day cycle ppl, but didn't like the idea of training legs once a week only. Seems overloaded but I manage to do a session in 90mins without being overly exhausted.

>>40683356
Lets me hit everything in 2 days so I can work out 6 days a week.

Haven't really had much issue with it, it's what got me to a 175lb OHP, 255 bench, 325 squat and 465lb dead as someone more interested in size than strength.

If I'm not cutting I just remove the cardio.

What's wrong with it?

>>40683404
no legs lmao

>>40683473
Is it really that bad?

I thought a post 3pl8 squat and 4pl8 dead was pretty good plus I've got a sub 18 min 5k so I don't think I have small calves or anything.

>>40683404
>deadlift is 43% higher than squat
your form is probably shit or you have circus freak proportions.

>>40683541
Yeah I trained without doing any squats for the entire previous spring/summer since I thought they were making my runs shittier.

Then I got some pretty nasty inner knee pain due to having such a weak inner quad and I started doing them again. Fixed that shit up but my squat is still really far behind my other lifts.

>>40676931
I use coolcicadias PPL routine but I've messed with it quite a bit

Push:
Bench 3x5
OHP 3x5
Incline 3x5
Lat and front raises 3x10
Cable pec fly 3x12
Dips 3x10
Tricep cable ropes 3x12
Shrugs 3x12

Pull:
Sumo deadlifts 1x5
Bent row 3x5
Pullup 3x12
Cable row 3x10
Lat pulldown 3x10
Curls 3x10
Cable curls 3x10
Face pull 3x12

Legs:
Squat 3x5
Kettlebell swings 4x25
Box jumps 4x10
One legged diagonal deadlift 3x8
SLDL 3x8
Abs

File: IMG_5548.jpg (34KB, 385x385px) Image search: [Google]

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>>40679175
>tfw I showed them my dick but no response

Thoughts?
Deadlifts 1x5+/Barbell rows 4x5, 1x5+ Alternate
3x8-12 Pullups and chinups
3x8-12 seated cable rows
5x15-20 face pulls
4x8-12 hammer curls
4x8-12 dumbbell curls

PUSH
4x5, 1x5+ bench press/4x5, 1x5+ overhead press Alternate
3x8-12 overhead press/3x8-12 bench press Alternate
3x8-12 incline dumbbell press
3x8-12 triceps pushdowns SS 3x15-20 lateral raises
3x8-12 overhead triceps extensions SS 3x15-20 lateral raises

LEGS
2x5, 1x5+ squat
3x8-12 Romanian Deadlift
3x8-12 leg press
3x8-12 leg curls
5x8-12 calf raises

Frankly i think this is doing too much

I want a new program that is 7 days with the rest days, so I can lift the same M-F every week and have the weekend off.

I've been doing a push/pull for a year now and it's ok, but all the push/pull programs I'm looking at are staggered into the next week or are back to back pplpplx with not enough rest...

I was thinking of doing PHAT without the lower hypertrophy day, UpLpXBhCahXX but it doesn't seem optimal for a natty lifter.

Anyone recommend an advanced routine that is 7 days ending in two rest days with only 1 leg day? Dont entirely care about strength, had my time powerlifting, been lifting for 5 years if that matters.

If I can't find anything tonight I'll just start the modified PHAT tomorrow but I know there has to be a more optimal routine out there for me...

I don't get Push/Pull. If I'm having a push day and say go hard on the bench, doesn't that affect my OHP negatively since I'm basically using similar muscles and tiring them?

Wouldn't it make more sense to combine the push/pull exercises?

>>40677908
is there a study down on how much sugar you can eat relative to your body weight every day without it damaging your veins?

File: IMG_7125.jpg (21KB, 245x250px) Image search: [Google]

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ARMS
-Bicep curls, 3x8, 1x5, 1x3
-Tricep machine, 3x8, 1x5, 1x3
-Forearm curls, 2x20, per arm
-Lat pull-downs, 3x10, 1x7
-Abs, 4x10 leg-extensions, 4x10 leg-extended crunches, three 1 minute side-planks for each side


UPPER
-Benchpress, 3x5, 1x3
-Inclinepress, 3x5, 1x3
-Declinepress, 3x5, 1x3
-Overhead Press 3x5, 1x3
-Dumbbell side extensions 3x10
-Bent-Over Rows 3x6, 1x3

LOWER
-Jog 1.5 miles, walk 0.5
-Calf raises (all 3 toed styles, weighted) 2x20 each style
-Lunges (weighted), 1x20 per leg

SWIM
Swim for an hour

Sunday-SWIM
Monday-UPPER/ARMS
Tuesday-LOWER
Wednesday-UPPER/ARMS
Thursday-LOWER
Friday-UPPER/ARMS
Saturday-SWIM

I do the upper and arms categories in the same day, upper in the morning and arms in the evening so that I can rest a bit and still tackle both. Lower is relatively lax b/c I hate leg day, and I have classes Tuesday/Thursday only, so it's something of a "rest" day. Swimming on the weekends is for additional cardio, helping "cool down" my body with relaxed exercise, and working on my tan.

>>40678783

Any opinions on this routine?

PULL
Deadlifts 1x5+/Barbell rows 4x5, 1x5+ (alternate, so if you did deadlifts on Monday, you would do rows on Thursday, and so on)
3x8-12 Pulldowns OR Pullups OR chinups
3x8-12 seated cable rows OR chest supported rows
5x15-20 face pulls
4x8-12 hammer curls
4x8-12 dumbbell curls
PUSH
4x5, 1x5+ bench press/4x5, 1x5+ overhead press (alternate in the same fashion as the rows and deadlifts)
3x8-12 overhead press/3x8-12 bench press (do the opposite movement: if you bench pressed first, overhead press here)
3x8-12 incline dumbbell press
3x8-12 triceps pushdowns SS 3x15-20 lateral raises
3x8-12 overhead triceps extensions SS 3x15-20 lateral raises
LEGS
2x5, 1x5+ squat
3x8-12 Romanian Deadlift
3x8-12 leg press
3x8-12 leg curls
5x8-12 calf raises

Also suggests ab work on deadlift/squat days.

>>40676931
A: OHP/DB shoulder + BP variant + tricep shit + more shoulder variants
B: squat, walking lunges, calves, hyperextension/gm
C: bent-over row, row variants/rack pull, pull-up, face pull, bicep/forearm shit
D: BP, shoulder press variant, tricep, further press shit
E: diddly, lunges, further compound ham shit
F: pull-up, further pull variants, row variant, bicep/forearm shit, shrug

Shit's great for maintaining strength while losing weight after falling for SS + GOMAD year after year

>>40685191
true, but if you do both push and pull on the same day, you can't train the next because every muscle will already be tired from the day before. there's no perfect routine without disadvantages, you just gotta find the one that fits you best/is the most fun to you
that being said, bench is more important than OHP, so you might as well prioritze it. if you don't think so, you could also alternate the exercises. do bench first on one day and OHP second, then the next push day, do OHP first and bench second.

can you do a decent PPL with just a barbell and adjustable dumbbells?

4 days a week. ULxULxx

Upper: Bench, Ohp (alternate in order) Pendlay rows.
Accesories: closegrip bench, db front raise, pullups, db lat raise, dynamic plank

Lower and arms: Squat, Deadlift, Hip thrust.
Accesories: SLdl, db curls, lying tricep extensions, calf raises, weighted crunches.

File: 4_U.jpg (572KB, 2000x1350px) Image search: [Google]

572KB, 2000x1350px

Push

OHP 5x5
Latraises 3x10
Shoulderboulders 2x3x5
Shrugs 7x12
Chest and arms are for fags

Pull:
Deadlifts with topholds 5x3
DB shrugs 4x12
BB shrugs 3x5 (90% 5RM)
Facepulls 4xF
BB Rows 5x5
Arms are still for fags

Legs:

Squats 3x5 and 5x5 until the end of time
Light BB shrugs (60-70% of 5RM) 3x8

>>40676931
Push:
warmup- pushups, dips
Bench press
OHP
side lateral raises
overhead tricep extension
heavy shrugs

Pull:
warmup- deadhang, rowing machine, pull ups
deadlift
pendlay row
lat pulldown
seated row
face pull
curls

Legs:
I warm up with box jumps
back squat
front squat
hamstring curl
I do heavy sled pushes instead of leg extension machine, my gym doesn't have one. They are way better for endurance too.
Then abs. Situps 3xF cause I'm a milfag
flutterkicks

Seems like a lot of /fit/ does a PPL, do they give the best results? For those of you who have been on one for a few months how did it go? Strength gains? Aesthetic gains? Both? Neither?

>>40685800
All memes aside, it's really the only way a natty is going to see noticeable results

How is it possible to progress the weights on the big lifts if you're beyond the beginner/intermediate stage? PPLs never have any kind of structured strength programming.

>>40685800
fine aesthetics gains, barely any strength gains

I do U/L

A:

Bench press 3x5
Pec deck 3x12
OHP 3x5
Lateral raises 3x12
Tricep rope pulldowns 3x12
Curls (any kind) 3x12

B:
Squats 3x5
Deadlifts 3x5
lots of ab shit 3x12

AxBxAxx

>>40685940
they are not made for strength gains. any good ppl wont work with exact sets and reps, but with a rep range. for example you do 3-5 sets of 3-5 reps, then you hit a weight for 3x3, the next time 4x3, then 5x3, then 3x4, 4x4, 5x4, 3x5, 4x5, 5x5, so you turn yor 3x3 into your 5x5 in 4 weeks(just an example), it works better if you go from 3x8 to 3x12 and start from 3x8 again. this way your strength inreases quite constant but rather slow, if you dont do a strength ppl, but there are routines that are better in every way for strength

File: Screen Shot 2017-03-13 at 13.37.44.png (100KB, 224x347px) Image search: [Google]

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>>40685800
I've done PPL for 2 years, my stats:
Body: 85 kg/183 cm (187 lbs/6'0")
DL 170 kg
BP 120 kg
SQ 120 kg
OHP 70 kg

And I look like this flexing

Judge for yourself

>>40686511
Mind you I'm not super dedicated and get shitfaced one night a week

>>40677612
The joke

Your head

>>40677407
If you won't do deadlifts, wil you do squats?

I actually do full body workout, but with PPL exercises. So

Monday:
Bench Press
Pullups
OHP
Deadlifts

Wednesday:
DB Flyes
DB Rows
Power Partials
Squats

>>40685800
It's a good balanced program for building strength and aesthetics
You don't have to be either powerlifter or curlbro

>>40686573
>It's a good balanced program for building strength and aesthetics
No, it's not. PHUL would be better for that. It's not a curl-bro routine by any means - but if you want an even compromise between strength and aesthetic - PPL isn't for you.

>>40686551
I never feel like deads hit my legs at all. just my lower back.

my back is straight throughout the lift.

File: 1339057364862.jpg (39KB, 488x640px) Image search: [Google]

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Bench press
Incline DB press
Shoulder press
Lateral raises
Tricep extension
Curls
Seated row
Pull ups
Squats

All in one work out. 2 days rest between sessions.

>>40678245

Highly disagreed. a 'program' is probably single-handedly the most useless part when it comes to achieving a great physique.

>there are ppl who do brosplits with stupid excercises that look great
>there are ppl who do high weight low rep that look great
>there are ppl who do low weight high rep that look great
>there are ppl who use almost exclusively machines that look great
>there are ppl who use almost exclusively free weights that look great

you can get away with almost anything u do in ur gym as long as you are CONSISTENT and do what u do PROPERLY.

and the one to bind them all: nutrition. you cannot defy laws of thermodynamics.

>>40686782
>genetics

>>40687734
M-M-MUH GENETICS

kys

This is what I do, find it takes to long (an hour and 30-40 mins) though so prob gonna switch to a brosplit

also homegym so I can't do alot

~PUSH~
Dumbbell Bench Press 4x12
Incline Dumbbell Bench Press 4x12
Dumbbell Flies 4x6-8
Seated OHP 3x6-8
Dumbbell Tricep Extensions 4x12
Tricep Dips 4x12
Dumbbell Lateral Raises 4x12

~PULL~
Barbell Bent Over Rows 4x6-8
Dumbbell One Handed Rows 4x12
Barbell or Dumbbell Curls 4x8-12
Hammer Curls 4x12
Sometimes do front lat raises 4x12

~LEGS~
Deadlifts 4x4-6
Dumbbell goblet squats 4x12
Dumbbell calf raises 4x20

That's it right there, I put deadlifts on legs so I have something to look forward too.

R8 and H8

>>40689614
You should be pulling more than you press.

>>40690467
I do though my bent over row is 135lbs for 6-8 reps
while my OHP is 60lbs for 6-8 reps AT BEST

my bench is pathetic because I don't have heavy weights yet, 30lbs dumbbell each arm.

when I got my squat rack I will be able to squat and go heavy on my bench, as it would allow me to use my barbell.

>>40689614
Post body and how long you've been lifting.

>>40683082
Weak rotator cuffs. Obviously. Do shit light and build up, make up for those years of neglect. Get some hgh too youre tiny

File: 1489346573940.png (831KB, 1280x1381px) Image search: [Google]

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Monday
Squats 5x5
Bench 4x5
OHP 5x5
Calf raises 4x15

Tuesday
DL 5x5
Rows 5x5
Some iso when I feel it.

Wednesday free

Thursday
Squats 5x5
Bench 3x5
Some iso when I feel it.

Friday free

Saturday
Squats 3x5 (with heavier weight than than thursday)
Bench 3x5 (with heavier weight than than thursday)
Calf raises 4x15

I should do rows, ohp and probably DL more. Dunno.

>>40683082
>>40691074
Nah, definitely not (just) weakness, something is probably impinged. Probably best to see a doc.

PPL or U/L for strength?

itt: retards that wanna do the bro split under the disguise of "PPL" because it's a validated split by the fit "community"

get stronger in:
hor/vert pushes
hor/vert pulls
squat movement
bend(hinge) movement

and you'll get bigger.

faggot niggers.

>>40692271
>itt: retards that wanna do the bro split under the disguise of "PPL" because it's a validated split by the fit "community"

>fat perma-bulking non-competitive powerlifter who thinks his prs are going to get him anything but bad knees detected.

PPL has the same frequency as PHUL.

>get stronger in:
Wow, dude. You mean getting better at lifting stuff will make someone bigger? Why didn't you share this wisdom before.

>>40677498
wtf is up with those ab insertions

>>40676931
Monday: Squat 5x5
Bent over rows 5x5
Bench press 5x5
Side lateral raises: 3x8
Sit-ups: 3x15
Tuesday: Off
Wednesday: Standing military press 5x5
Deadlifts 5x5
Barbell bicep curls 3x8
Tricep dips 3x8
Sit-ups 3x15
Thurs: Off
Friday: Repeat Monday
Saturday: Repeat Wednesday
Sunday: Off

HIIT 3 times a week 20 minutes
LIC 1 time a week 45 minutes

>>40677127
squat is a push exercise
DL is a pull exercise

>>40692396
they come in all shapes and sizes, nothing too unusual. you can see he does his vacuums, good on him.

>>40692416
the point of doing PPL is to have a separate day for push (upper,) pull (upper) and legs, if you're doing your squats on push day and deads on pull day then it's not a PPL routine.

>>40692370
none of your little imagination thingy is true. i periodize for strength for some time, and then try to turn those 3RMs into 5 and eventually 8RMs, rinse and repeat. it's the best method.

> You mean getting better at lifting stuff will make someone bigger?

read the first few routines, it's all retards who do 1-2 exercises for chest/back and then 3+ exercises for biceps and triceps, it's the same retard mentality that did mon: chest and tri, tue:shoulders and calves, wed: quads and eyebrow muscles etc. 10ish years back, just renamed to PPL

then they ask retard questions about it here instead of following literally any out of hundreds of ppl routines on the internet that were "proven" to work (ie were popular-ish), because they just NEED to isolate arms 60 times per week

>>40692454
Agreed, but my point is that PPL doesn't automatically equal shit routine. Most people will fuck up a simple whole body or upper/lower split with the same mentality.

Plus, if you want big arms and shoulders and don't give a fuck about symmetry (ie. you want the curl-bro physique) then upping the frequency on them is better than doing a shit-ton of arm/shoulder volume on one day of the week.

>>40681184
you're not dead wrong on everything, but strength IS = to size, if you don't go retard mode and just work in rep ranges of =<5

it's as simple as: will you have more muscle when you, for example, do

bench press: 3 sets x 10 reps x 225 lb or
bench press: 3 sets x 10 reps x 135 lb

that's why everyone should have strength phases, and then volume phases where they try to increase the number of reps they do with all the exercises they gained strength in.

>>40692511
aight fair enough

i agree with both points

>>40692370
PPL the way most people deal with has ZERO periodization and progressive overload, it's just a shitty go the gym to get a pump routine.

So what sort of routine should you be doing to help build aesthetics? I'm currently still doing >SS but add in lots of upper body accessories. Is this going to work fine enough in the long term? I usually try for 2-3x8x10 on most o my accessories. I'm still on a cut but plan to bulk in about half a months time to add some mass before summer

>>40692566
2-3x8-10*

>>40692529
> if you don't go retard mode and just work in rep ranges of =<5
You'd be surprised how often people base programs on heavy triples and doubles and when you ask them when they're going to compete they say shit like "oh, i just do this for health and to look good." That shit is like a virus in my gym, and not any less stupid than the previous 3X10, 5 exercises for EVERYTHING shit that came before.

>bench press: 3 sets x 10 reps x 225 lb or 135
Well no shit that there is a huge difference, but someone doing 2-0-4 with full ROM is probably noticeably bigger than someone using the same weight while doing reps that suggest they hate their sternum with a passion. And that's what a lot of people will end up doing once they get obsessed with PRs. That's why I said "theory and practice aren't necessarily the same."

>that's why everyone should have strength phases, and then volume phases
Yes, and that even goes for power-lifters. But try telling that to the #donutsfuelprs crowd.

>>40692566
> I'm currently still doing >SS but add in lots of upper body accessories.
You're probably fucking it up.

> Is this going to work fine enough in the long term?
Of course not, if you're not done with SS within six months at most, then you're doing something very wrong. Don't wait for 1/2/3/4, that's retarted. You're done once you can't add weight to the bar even when eating and resting well.

>plan to bulk
Just don't go over 500kcal or something like that - especially if you're still above 15%. The extra gains on SS with any surplus beyond that range are going to be marginal.

>>40690987
no body pic, but I am dyel
around 2 months with this setup

Please rate:

Push:
Flat bench 3x5
Overhead press 3x5
Incline bench 3x8
Lateral raises 3x10-12
Pushdowns 3x10-12

Pull:
Rows 3x5
Pull ups
Face pulls 3x10-12
Curls

Legs
Squat 3x5
DL 1x5
Leg extensions 3x10-12
Ham curls 3x10-12
Abs

How do you feel about adding shrugs to pull? Don't give a shit about calves.

PPLPPLx
Second leg day is going to be my cardio/run day.

please respond

>>40692689
Found the anti-SS memer. Next time, keep the angst out of your post, cunt.

Push
3x5 Flat barbell bench
3x10 Pec deck
3xF Dips
3x10 tricep pushdowns

Pull
1x5 Deadlift / 3x5 bent over row
3xF Pull ups SS pulldowns
3x10 seated cable row
2x10 hammer curls
2x10 isolation curls

Legs / delts
3x5 overhead press
3x5 squat
3x10 lateral raise
3x10 leg curls


I don't agree with doing chest and shoulders on one day, one will lag if I do this. Just move if over to leg day then you'll never skip legs again too

Alternate diddlys and rows, so once a week for each exercise

pls r8

>>40686511
You look like pure shit, fatass.

>>40690790
No, I'm saying you have four push exercises for chest and just two pull exercises for back. If anything, that should be reversed.

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I do this and try and walk a couple miles every day.

For the workout I try and see how many times I can cycle through. It works for me pretty good and I'm gonna buy a thing to do dips with

>>40692727
>I don't agree with doing chest and shoulders on one day

Finally, someone with common sense. Way too much overlap.

>>40692809
What do you think of the volume/rep scheme?

>>40677498
I am leaving SS behind and have just started a new routine four days a week. It's my first few days and my lower back is sore so I feel like I'm fucking up (not sure if DOMs or what). Help?


A
BP: 3X5
OHP: 3X5
Weighted Dips: 3x8
Curls: 3x8

B
Deadlift: 1X5 or Squat: 3X5
DumbBell Row: 3X5
Weighted ChinUps: 3X8
Planks: 2 Minutes x 2

I am currently eating at a 500 calorie surplus. I have gotten stronger and made decent progress aesthetically since starting SS 6 months ago, but still don't know what I am doing despite reading the sticky, SS, etc.

>>40677208
Well that's nearly a full body day

>>40692799
You can't be fuckin' serious with this.

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>>40676931
Push
>Flat Barbell Bench
>Flat Dumbbell Bench
>Low Cable Chest Fly
>Push Press
>Dumbbell Lateral Raises
>Cable Tricep Pushdowns
Pull
>Jefferson Deadlift
>Low Cable Rows
>Pendalay Rows
>Wide grip pullups
>Band Face Pulls
>Preacher Curls
Legs
>Barbell Hack Squat/Back Squat (some days I hack squat, some days I back squat)
>Leg Press
>Hamstring Curl
>Glute machine (not sure it's actual name, all I know is the machine says 'glutes' on the side)
>Calf Raises

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>>40676931
From a thread a couple months ago

>>40692702
>t. guy who did SS for two years
or more likely
>t. dyel who read SS and is on his third month thinking he knows everything


I did SS when I started out, it's a great beginner routine. But it's a fucking beginner routine, you retard. He was asking if SS + accessories is fine "in the long term." It fucking isn't. Period.

Plus, Rips nutritional advice sucks: yeah you'll get stronger if you eat 1000kcal surplus, no shit, but the eventual cut will annul a lot of that. On such a low frequency and volume routine diminishing returns set in quickly past 500kcal or even 300kcal surplus. Unless you're content to stay a fat piece of shit, of course.

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>>40692949
>no deadlifts
>4x10 for most exercises
>way too busy, looks like a 2 hour workout unless roids

2/10

bb flet bench
db incline bench
cable flies
db shoulder press
cable side lat raises
push downs
db one armed push things for triceps forgot what its called

DEADLIFT CMMON
lat pull downs
ROW ROW ROW seated
one more back exercise what ever i feel like, pull downs, bent over rows, one armed lat pull downs, etc etc
bb curls
one more biceps
reverse butterly CMON

legs
squats
etc you know who cares about legs lmao

>>40692942
why do you do flat bench twice in the same routine lmao nigga u dumb

i want to deadlift twice a week but don't want to do squats the day after i deadlift. is one day of rest between squats and deadlift okay??

ex.
deads
push
squat
rest
deads
push

>>40693027
Sorry I meant flat barbell incline dumbbell

>>40693051
idk try it out, for me it was not possible to deadlift twice a week after i got near 180kg, especially on a ppl routine

>>40692862
I am. I don't have the opportunity to go to a gym (live about 30 minutes from the closest one) so I have to workout at home. I don't want to spend a bunch of money on exercise equipment because I'm already doing that on supplements and food, so I gotta just do a exercise routine like this.

>benching less than 3x a week

well noo thanxx

>>40693195
>I'm already doing that on supplements
>doing BW infographic routine
Nigga you best be trolling. Nobody can be this stupid.
Yeah, protein powder and BCAAs are definitely a better investment than a pair of adjustable dumbbells, a pull-up bar and a cheap bench - all of which you can get for 200$ at most.

After reading this thread, I've decided to follow the sage advice that "you can't achieve hypertrophy by moving bitch weight." I think PPL will work better for me for hypertrophy if I build a strength foundation first. I've been lifting for a while, but after starting on a retard split and moving onto a less retarded PPL, I'm going to actually go do SS and see where that gets me. I've been working out for three years and can't bench lmao1pl8 for reps, so clearly I can't build chest doing 8-12 reps of weight that I can currently handle.

Thanks, bros.

>>40693321
> I'm going to actually go do SS and see where that gets me.
You'd be better of doing TM or some other intermediate strength routine unless you really fucked up badly (no compounds, bro-splits all the way) or by "a while" you mean less than a year.

>>40693390
No, he's obviously not even close to running out of LP yet if he's stuck on a 1 plate bench. SS is the one for him.

>>40693239
Oh boy, some faggot shilling supps, gym memberships and ss while shitting on anything else.

that's not...like...every other person on 4chan.

>>40693390
I made compounds the foundation of my PPL, but I spent those years at Planet Fitness without access to barbells, so all the compounds were dumbbell variations plus leg press. It's really hard to progressively overload with dumbbells, so my strength isn't where it should be.

I just got done watching a SS podcast episode and Rippetoe says you shouldn't do Texas Method unless you're 22-23 and want to be a competitive powerlifter. You can't handle it, otherwise. I'm 29 and I just want to look good naked.

I'm at Anytime Fitness now, so I figured doing SS for six months would help me catch up on the strength gains I should already have by now. Then I can go back to PPL. That's not reasonable?

>>40693416
My mistake, didn't read that part. (Fuck.. and there are still people that think bro-splits are not utterly useless.)

Yeah, he's definitely still in for noob gains. SS or SL or GSLP or whatever it is.

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>Push compounds(Chest, Tris)
Bench,Dips
>Pull compounds (back/bicep)
DL, Lat pulls, Lat rows, BB row
>Legs(*usually shoulders)
Leg press, squat, (*OHP,shrugs)

Start compound work to isolated generic BS to hit your areas of focus. Rotate shoulders around. Ideally on leg day but sometimes good on push and even once in a while on pull with a lat heavy routine.
>Feeders, vaccums, basic bullshit calisthenics, 4 scoops etc. for maximum gains. Rotate calisthenic to fit what's easiest on most recent pump (I.E. don't do chinups a few hours after biceps and do do pushups a few hours after push-ups) not that it's counterproductive but it's just not extracting the most growth out of your effort.

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>>40692942
>Jefferson deadlift
That's 8/8 b8. Totally joogled it.

>>40693239
Dude I bought a bunch of vitamins and some protein powder so that I can make my own protein bars

I'm working with what I got, you can just fuck off man

>>40693455
>Rippetoe says you shouldn't do Texas Method unless you're 22-23 and want to be a competitive powerlifter.
Read >>40693458, I didn't see the part about 1plt bench. But there is a 4day split version of TM for more general purposes if anyone is into that kind of stuff.

>>40693435
Can you read motherfucker? I said that spending money on supps is retarded, especially if you do a basic bitch BW routine. His money would be much better spent at least getting some basic equipment.

Also how the fuck did I shill SS? Not that there is anything wrong with doing it as a noob.

>shilling gym-memberships
Better than doing fucking jumping jacks all day.

>>40691710
UL is definitely less arm heavy and more core focused.
>Good for football players and people with shitty time budgeting skills as well as generic autists.

>>40677541
A resistance band is $15. Buy one and tie it around your rack to to face pulls.

Or just do rear delt flies with the dumbbells and band pull aparts.

>>40693514
>I bought a bunch of vitamins and some protein powder
>I'm working with what I got
If you want to see actual results, then your money would be much better spent buying two adjustable DBs, you don't even need the bench or the pull-up bar if you're that poor.

Chicken breast + DBs will get you much better results than home-made protein bars + vitamins + body-weight squats.

Or at least do a progressive BW routine.

But whatever, keep on doing your retarded thing.

>>40692834

You're absolutely obliterating your lower back on B day. You're not doing an Upper Lower or PPL, you're doing Push / Not-Push. You're lifting legs one day a week (Deadlift is a Back exercise, especially for DOMS), but Upper three times.

Do you want to do UL (4 days) PPLUL (5 days) or PPLPPL (6 Days)? Pick one and I'll help out with an example program :).

You know why you feel off: between OHP, Rows, Chinups, and Deadlifts, you're directly stressing your Lower back with intensity every single day. Oh, and 3 working sets of Squats is basically your entire weekly leg work. The extra one set of Deadlifts, which IMO is Back work, does not add enough to make a difference. Coming from 3 days of leg work to one is going to be a big change. It makes sense that adding a ton of upper work will stress the low back in a bad way.

>>40677541
>so don't have any machines
You can work out any body part with just a bar and some plates. If nothing else, you could invest in some DBs that take olympic sized plates - so you just need to buy the DBs themselves and can use the plates you already have.

>>40693591
Four days so I guess I am shooting for UL. I appreciate ya, man

>>40693591
>Deadlift is a Back exercise
You just had to go there, didn't you.

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>>40693195
>Push-up variants
>Pull-up variants
>Crunch,Squat,Lunge, and misc variants
Loosely follow that and you can go upper body like as many days in a row while combining lower body. I don't think you will injure often doing bw training. Buy the bar or a few different pull-up bars for 15 or so dollars and feel free to do that bw progressive shit. You can def go total upper body and to be fair I do not have a rough idea of how that holds water vs a push-pull bw training split but i'm sure it depends on intensity.
If you were to do a very high intensity thing then I would definitely rotate push and pull days whilst incorporating lower body on those days and only rest as needed. If your just bro-ing around trying to get into shape then you could definitely do as much bw training as u want whilst still getting a lot of benefits.

>>40683276
Move side lateral raises to leg day. Shoulder and chest in the same day means one could lag. Also add dumbbell shrugs to leg day to expand on shoulders. Pull should have some sort of row in it, upright maybe. Also the 4xfailure plank seems a bit odd. Personally I would remove it or modify it, but if you're attached to it, doesn't hurt anything.

>>40693591
>You know why you feel off: between OHP, Rows, Chinups, and Deadlifts, you're directly stressing your Lower back with intensity every single day.

>sumo
Will prevent this to an extent.

Deadlift WILL affect trying to train upper back the next day though.

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>>40693612
>>40693591
As I mentioned, I have to work my routine around my home gym, as well. If I didn't work out from home, I'd just find a reason to not go with my work schedule, family, excuses, etc., etc. I have an Olympic squat rack/bench combo, weight belt, barbell/dumb bells, and Pull Up/Dip Tower.

>>40693619
When I pull, I feel it most in my back. Some people feel it in their legs, but I had to switch to Sumo to really feel like it was a balanced pull for me.

>>40693612
4 day U/L After Starting Strength is fun. I'm going to assume you're pretty young and can give you a more aggressive split.

Scheme in Sets x Reps
Upper A
5x3 Heavy OHP - Same weight for all 3 sets
5x8 Bench (Heaviest you can do 8 for, typically decreasing weight each set to hit it)
5x5 Heavy weighted Neutral Grip Chinups
5x8-12 (as many as you can) unweighted Pullups

Upper B
5x3 Heavy Bench
5x8 OHP (Heaviest you can do 8 for, typically decreasing weight each set to hit it)
10x3 Heavy weighted Chinups
3x8 neutral grip pulls

Legs A
5x3 Squats as Heavy as you can - Same weight for all 3 sets
5x8 Squats - Max weight for each set - dropping weight each set
Go Home. Trust me on this, don't overdo it here. Just go home.

Legs B
5x3 Deadlifts at same weight
10x5 Deadlifts at same weight. This will kill you. Make sure you take 2 days off after this
Hanging leg raises if you want, but I only have energy for these maybe once every 3 cycles.

Routine is
Upper A/ Lower A / X/ Upper B/ Lower B / X / X

Don't do accessories. Just focus on hitting those sets and you'll be fine. Accessories will just make you sore/harder to hit the next days lifts.

Good luck man. Let me know how it goes.

>>40693785
>I'm going to assume you're pretty young
Let's just say I am a few years older than you. Thanks for your help, anon

I just do full body 3 days a week with varying intensities on workouts.

Sometimes I'll do something like heavy squats, bench, and rows for 3x5 and do lighter dumbbell ohp and weighted pull ups for 3x10.

Next workout would be heavy deads for 1x5, ohp, and weighted pulls for 3x5 and then single arm rows and dumbbell bench press for 3x10

The last day I work on my weakest lifts and accessories and core work. I'd switch to an upper/lower or p/p/l split but I can really only work out 3 days a week and a p/p/l one day a week is no where near enough volume for me.

>>40693805
I'd cut out the burnout set of chinups then on the Upper days, too hard on elbows at our age :).

The rest of the program should be fine. Take your time between sets, I take around an hour-1.5 between each workout.

Don't take the lack of garbage accessory reps as an easy program, This will overtrain you unless you're eating and sleeping with discipline. Each set should be pushing you to your near maximum, especially on the drop sets for volume. Know your limits, learn to ride them, and you'll go far.

>>40693785
>When I pull, I feel it most in my back.
I did too, until I got my hips down and actually started using my glutes. Everyone at my gym mocked me for doing "squat-deads," but it worked like a fucking charm for my posterior. Also, hypers helped stop my lower back from being a weak link in half my lifts. Never tried sumo, is it really less taxing on your CNS or is that just a meme?

>>40693975
I wouldn't say it's less taxing on the CNS, but it does generate less sheer force on the low back (Which is what means the most for me, I ruptured my low back a few years ago Squatting on the hell week of a Smolov cycle and the scar tissue still bothers me.)
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1758295
> The sumo deadlift style resulted in a 10% reduction in the joint moment and 8% reduction in the load shear force at the L4/L5 level when compared with the conventional lifting style.

>>40693874
Alright, I created a spreadsheet to track and will start it next week. Thanks again, anon. I'll give you a progress update in a few months.

>>40694146
Fuck, if that happened to me I'd dump deads and maybe even squats altogether. What did you do for back rehab following your injury?

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Hey, since you guys seem to be knowledgeable. Could anyone help me out with this:
>reach close to 1/2/3/3.5
>started at 107kg, got down to 102kg in 7 months.
>run out of money for gym and put on weight
>decide to go on a cut, cut 15kg over 3 months without lifting.
>started lifting again about a month ago
>lifts are completely fucked
>eating at maintenance trying to make my numbers back up
I thought building back up will be easier than it was getting there in the first place: but it seem a lot harder now.
I'm eating about the same as I did back then - just around maintenance.
I know that maybe I should go for a surplus, but I didn't need it last fall to do the same thing and I'm really fucked tired of being fat.
Any suggestions?

>>40694198
Uhh, a lot of crying, prayer, and swearing.
I didn't have any disc or nerve issues, so the Doc was like "uh, just let the muscle heal". I avoided surgery, but I'll never be the same. I'm back squatting over 3 plates for reps and such, but I've been especially careful with Deadlifts, which is now back to 3pl8 for my 10 sets of 5. I've given up squatting low bar + Power lifting style, and I don't think I'll ever squat 5 plates again. I now go high-bar, ass to grass, and I'm happy with my results.

I was stupid. I was sore, lifted anyway because I didn't want to "quit", and my body just gave out on me. I thought as long as I had perfect form, and eat and slept a ton, could push through it anything. Turns out kids in their 20s think they're invincible =/.

As for giving up Deads and Squats, I honestly did for about a year. I did low back & Leg isolations, but my back never improved. It wasn't until I got back on the horse and started Squatting and Deadlifting again for legitimate weight that my back pain actually has almost gone away completely. If I lose focus and tweak it wrong, yeah, it'll come roaring back for a day or two, but in general, I haven't felt this healthy since my Injury.

>>40694332
You likely haven't lost too much muscle, just the ability to contract it at the same time to generate maximum force. Your strength will return quickly as your muscle adapts to the explosiveness of lifting again.

You're right in that it will be easier to get back than it was the first time, but you need to eat. I know it sucks to have to "put on weight" after a huge cut (I Cut 50lbs my first cut, going back on a bulk made me want to cry), but your body can't build anything unless the calories are there.
You have about 6 weeks left until it's cutting season. Go on about a 500-800+ cal surplus, and then start a cut (AND KEEP LIFTING THIS TIME) in April

>>40686771

Your hips may be rising too fast.
One mental cue that helped me was to remember to pull the weight back. Squeeze your glutes/hams to keep them engaged. Record yourself to check your form

>>40677385
dom is too normie

>>40694371
Not being funny, props for getting back to it: but maybe Scooby wasn't all wrong about some stuff.

Recently got told my patellar ligaments are looking a bit worrying after some trouble and I'm getting tingles in my arms more and more often (already know that my cuffs are shot to shit) - I'm considering a life of skateboard squats and fishing hats.

I do a PPL but I changed it last couple weeks a bit, using N-suns rep scheme for bench, squat dead, and OHP as 5x5 was boring me.

current maxes are 545 dead, 405 squat (can already tell its more than this now). 325 bench, 180 ohp ( this shit is hard)

5'10
200lbs

PUSH
Bench - nsuns rep scheme (was 270 5x5 prior to switching)
OHP- first days ohp
gassed at this point so i do hypertrophy work\
incline 3x12
lateral raises 3x12
tricep pushdown 3x20
face pulls 3x12

other accessory work if I feel like it, but usually just these.

Pull
Deadlift- nsuns
was 405 x5, 455 x3 495 x1 then i would litterally try to max every time I did deadlifts, 545 being my best)
pullups 3x fail (usually 12,8,8 or so)
various rowing motions 3x12
barbell curls
hammer curls
more pullups 3xf (around 7,5,5 at this point but all depends)

Legs-
squats - nsuns
(was doing 275 5x5 due to hip problem from breaking my ankle and favoring my other sides hip)
hamstring curls
leg extensions
calf raises

>>40694428
This: hips go back at set-up - don't be afraid of falling backward - the weight will keep you balanced as long as you keep pushing trough your midfoot. If you're hitting your knees you're doing it wrong.

Nvmd, I can't explain shit very well.

>>40694492
Shit like this worries me. Lifting makes me feel good and I enjoy the confidence boost, but don't want to sacrifice what has been a relatively injury free life to date.

>>40694408
Yeah, I knew not lifting was retarded but I really didn't have the money. Saved ahead this time.

Just one thing I don't get: how come I'm training and eating the same as I did back then but making slower progress trough the same weight range? Does dropping 10kg (15 if you count the weight I added after stopping to lift but before cutting) really affect your MRV that much? Or is 1 month simply not not yet enough to get my CNS efficiency back to a decent level? Probably stupid question, no need to answer.

In any case: Six weeks, 500kcal surplus, 2.65kg total. I guess I can live with that. Thanks a lot mate.

>>40694653
To be fair: I was fucking retarded about lifting for a long time. And the rotator cuff thing happened because of manual labour way before I set foot in a gym. Statistically speaking, playing the occasional game of football in the park is more dangerous.

is push pull a meme

all these routines suck. Only good ppl is an isolation, hypertrophy one.

Do a full body or don't do compounds.

>>40694492
Thanks man. I honestly am glad I got back into it. I spent some time considering just doing bro splits, but my form and confidence would have been shattered. I don't try to lift like a power lifting anymore, and I don't let ego rule my lifts - But I am generally the strongest guy in the gym again...which is an awesome feeling. I can OHP my Bodyweight with zero knee bend/push, which was a goal I thought I'd never reach. So, in some aspects, i'm stronger than I've ever been.

>>40694653
>>40694742
Just know your limits. Don't lift the heaviest weight trying to set PRs when you're clearly not ready for it. There's a difference between being sluggish, tired, hungry, lazy, and having to summon up the focus, than your muscles already sore and overtrained.
You can't rush time or recovery. Respect the process, respect yourself, but always push for the best.

You probably gained a lot of muscle during your first lifting period, so your body TDEE is higher.
OR that you're not perfectly weighing/counting your calories, so you're not eating as much as you should be.
OR what I guess is the factor: You're actually keeping good form (parallel, bar to chest, etc), whereas before you cheated range of motion a bit. So, your progress is slower.
I can't tell for certain, I'm not you, and only you know what you do all day.

>>40695416
>know your limits
I've never been good at this. I always convince myself I am being a pussy and want to go harder. I've always been a very intense individual so I am not sure if this advice applies to me.

>>40695555
Nice quads.

Yeah, I was the same way in everything - not just lifting. Dumbest thing you can do. It's fine when you're 18 or even 22, but as you get older that attitude becomes a liability and you should know better.

I know I'm going to get called a pussy, but when it comes to lifting: most people are better of doing slightly less than slightly more. Slightly less means you'll get that one milestone in 13 months instead of 12, slightly more can very well mean you get it in 24, because you snapped up your shit.

>>40695555
I'm the same way. I can't tell the amount of times I've told myself I'm being weak.

You're always going to be like that. Always. Nothing I can do will take that drive to hate myself away - It's why I lift. If I was happy with myself, I'd be banging stacey with a Dad-bod.

What has carried me well is that It's always better to Push with Intensity, not Volume.
If I'm not sure I can crank out the next set, I'll always choose to nudge the weight up, and drop volume from the set:
EG: Doing 5x2 sets at 315, but pretty sure I'd fail the next/another set of three. I'll jump up the weight to 320, but aim for a double.This satiates my desire not to quit/achieve my maximum, without recklessly running into a super-dangerous situation where I likely fail a rep.

While no one will argue that doing 315x3 is better than 320x2, doing 320x2 is way better than 315x2 + a failure rep (where the risk of failure is 10000x higher because your form breaks down).

>>40692798
wtf do i do for pull though?

>>40677385
people like to post about guys they hate

>>40695722
Pretty much this, Oliver Sacks wrote a good article on this kind of behavior. Most bodybuilders and weightlifters are emotionally fucked on some level.

How is this for someone who is relatively new. (training for 3 months)

Push
flat bench 3x10
incline bench 3x10
incline flies 3x12 (upper chest is lacking)
OHP 3x8
2x tricep movements usually 3x10-12 each

Pull
DL 3x5
Bent over rows 3x12
Lat pulldown 3x12
DB shrugs 3x12
Hammer curls 3x12
ezbar/preacher curls 3x12

Legs
Squats 3x10
Leg press 3x12


I think I need to incorporate more leg work. right now i'm only doing this 4-5 times a week (only hitting legs once per week) besides the obvious problem with not enough leg work. how is my push and pull. is it too much volume? not enough? should my reps go down and weight go up?

>>40697069

Bump. I need to know because i'm too lazy to go elsewhere to find this info

>>40697173
hi? are you still here? If so i'd love to really walk you through this!

>>40697204

I am friendo

>>40697221
ALRIGHT ALRIGHT ALRIGHT.

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/training/periodization-for-bodybuilders-part-1.html

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/training/categories-of-weight-training-part-1.html/

https://www.reddit.com/r/weightroom/comments/2cvunm/is_there_a_definitive_consensus_on_what_a_certain/

These three links should cause you to completely overhaul your routine once you are done reading them, ima add more actual guidelines based off this in a second

>>40697268
dont feel like 4 hours of reading and trying to understand this?
Here are the basic, practical applications:

Frequency: Hit each muscle group 2x per week

Total Volume: 30-70 reps per muscle group, per session ( pay attention to overlap). Break into 4-8 total sets

Rep Range: 5-15 repetitions, lower end for compounds, higher end for accesories. (a good one is 6-8 rep range for compounds, 8-10 or 10-12 on your accessories

Rest: From 1-1.5 minute isolations, 1-2 minutes accessories, 2-3 minutes accesory compounds, 3-5 heavy compounds

>>40676931
>PPL

a meme

Push pull shoulders is where it's at boyos

>>40697280

Must easier than reading all that stuff. thanks mate i'll figure it out

File: chestPartsActivation.png (5KB, 538x291px) Image search: [Google]

5KB, 538x291px

>>40697069
>>40697221
as for your routine.

Push Day:

Flat bench 5x5, maybe 4x6-8 if you dont want pure strength.

Follow by incline bench OR incline flies 3x8-10, alternate either of these as your accesory but only do one of them as your chest accessory, both is overkill.

SOMETHING TO KEEP IN MIND:

http://suppversity.blogspot.com/2011/07/suppversity-emg-series-musculus.html

attached to this is an image of how different chest excercises at various inclines hit each part of the chest. Each incline change DOES change the emphasis of which "head" of the chest you are hitting, but even flat bench hits your upper chest quite nicely. Theres really no need (IMO) to try to isolate the different chest heads through angle changes, it is a subtle difference and IMO probably wouldnt actually change the shape of your chest.

The suppversity writer disagrees with me, and heres his quote.

In summary, the inverse(=decline) bench press is the most effective exercise for the pectoralis major as a whole. The incline bench press (+45°), on the other hand, isolates the upper part of the chest muscle, i.e. the descending fibers of the pars clavicularis (cf. image 1) optimally and will thus - as bro-science tells you - bring up your " pecs".

>>40697302

Yeah I was wondering if doing too much for one muscle group would be overkill and actually kill gains I guess part of me is just like "well I could bust out 3 more sets of x I might as well"

>>40697300
ohohoho you think this ride ends?

LEG DAY:

5x5 squat, or 4x6-8 squat. You want strenght, followed by your 3x12 leg press for hypertrophy. This will give you the best gains by far.

You need to add in a hamstring/ glute exercise. I recommend alternating the romanian deadlift 3x8-10 or good morning exercise 3x8-10

>>40676931
Pull:
Barbell Row - 4x8
Close-Grip Cable Row - 4× 10 - 6
Lat Pulldown - 4× 10 - 6
DB Pullover - 3×12
Face Pulls - 3×12
Preacher Curls - 3×10
Hammer Curls - 3×8

Push
Flat Bench - 3x8
DB Bench - 4×6
Incline Machine Press - 3x10
Cable Fly - 3x12
DB OHP - 4x8
Lateral Raises (one drop) 3x10+10
Rotator Cuff Cable thing - 3x15
Rope Tricep Extension - 4x10-8
Tricep Dips - 3x10

Legs
Squat Machine (at LA Fitness it's called a SUPER SQUAT) - 4x8-10
Hack Slide - 4x8-10
Superset Leg Extension and Leg Curl 4×10-12
Standing Calf Raises 3×12
Seated Calf Raises 3×15

I do realize I need to work on the programming of my Pull and Leg routines, but I'm teaching my friend to work out too so we're just doing the stuff together, I plan to make it a little more complex as time moves on.

I'm doing a PPL routine but I don't have a leg day. I just do lunges on push day. I don't know what the situation of my knees is so I don't wanna go too hard at them (they pop and crack a lot). I know I should go to a doctor but I don't have the money for that stuff.
My legs are getting bigger and I stretch and warm up before lunges.
What do you guys think?

>>40697311
yeah its overkill, alternate for sure.

other muscles you arent targeting:

Traps (barbell shrug, wide grip)

Forearms (reverse curls, seated palm up dumbell forearm curl)

Calfs (Smith machine standing calf, seated calf does not cause growth this is scientifically proven)

Rotator cuff or rear delts (rear delt flyes)

Technically, your compounds "hit" these muscles but its to the same degree that powerlifters would argue a bench or row hits your triceps and biceps. Whether or not you really think them getting hit as a secondary muscle is enough is up to you.

>>40685191
That's why I moved OHP and other shoulder shit to leg day.

>>40692445
You should be doing deads on pull day anyway.
Squats on push is retarded obviously because leg day is needed but deads should be on pull because having them on the same day is just way too much.
Besides, deads are more of a back exercise anyway

>>40685191
yes, a better 3 day split:

1. CHEST & POSTERIOR CHAIN (HAMSTRING/GLUTE)

2. SHOULDERS AND BACK

3. QUADS

breaks into:

1. Bench then Deadlift

2. Row/pullup (alternate) and OHP

3. Squat

>>40677342
It's pretty basic, so you have a lot of tried and true exercises here. I would sub out chin-ups for maybe seated rows or bent over rows to hit your back from a different angle with each back exercise you do. Also experiment with different rep schemes for compound movements so you find out what works best for you rather than doing 8-10 for everything, but keep accessories and isolations at 8-10.

>>40697343
>>40697319

Cool stuff, and for pull, hows that looking

>>40677074
>no rear delts
>two exercises for back
>three curls
ayy

>>40683082
Had the same issue, couldn't even bench at one point. You have stretch with a band or PVC pipe, do external rotations with a dumbbell (Google) before every workout, and shoulder press. Basically cured my shit in a few weeks, and this is coming from a guy who was thinking he might need surgery.

Should I OHP on days I bench?

>>40697375
ok so pull gets a little annoying.

Part of the Big Six lifts is row, and pullup. The problem is both work the exact same muscle groups just from a slightly different direction.

Fuck totally realized you do have shrugs on your pull, i take it back you are hitting traps.


A good pull change IMO for you would be:

PULL A:
Bent over row 3x6-8
then Lat pulldown 3x12

PULL B:
lat pulldown 3x6-8
then bent over row 3x12

so basically do your rows and pulldown, just each session alternate which one is heavy and which one is "hypertrophy"

I think you should do only one arm exercise and alternate, arms get hit pretty hard by your pull compounds so just pay attention to if you really have the energy to progress on both of your bicep excercises, and switch to alternating between one each session if neceessary.

By now you're noticing I'm giving you the same recomendation over and over, hit each muscle with a low rep high weight heavy set, finish with a higher weight hypertrophy set. Strength, then hypertrophy. Every single popular PPL follows this basic setup.

>>40697410

What about deadlifts?

>>40697410

also one more question. Is it truly best to do 6x a week PPL as a novice like me? or should I incorporate what you have been saying into say a 4 day a week upper lower split

>>40697355
>deads are more of a back exercise anyway
Literally never felt them in my back, my glutes and hams feel like tearing on the last rep, though.

>>40697589

Your form is off. You should be thrusting your hips forward to stand up. only using your legs. after I deadlift I don't feel much in my hams/glutes but my lower back is sore af

>>40697608

not only using your legs*

>>40697608
That's what I do, bugged a former Olympic coach to check me out. When I do it right, it's all hips and hams - when I fuck it up it's lower back. Guess it depends on weak-spots.

>>40676988
me

>>40676988
Did it as a noob after finishing SS, because I was poor and only had a pair of dumbbells.

Made pretty good gains on it, his rotisseries core workout is absolute shit though - just stick to hypers, crunches and twists.

>>40696323
Google.

>Pull ups
>Bent over barbell rows
>Pendlay rows
>Bent over dumbbell rows
>Cable low rows with various grip widths
>T-bar row
>One-arm dumbbell row
>Face pulls