So /fit/, why aren't you vegan yet? https://www.youtub

from the start of 2017 until this Wednesday I was trying out being vegetarian and I noticed literally no change other than less stamina and more gas, I was on the same macros as always, and I am now wise to this shill.

>>40166539
just listen to him

even his voice is that of a low-energy beta male. monotone, provokes no emotion other than boredom and annoyance. also, he literally looks like a green nigger goblin.

I don't feel like i have to belong to some group. I already eat mostly plant-based, but every now and then i eat some cheese, milk, chicken or fish. I also don't reject meaty foods when i'm eating at my friends house etc.

Being 90% plant-based works for me

>>40166552
Ehh in this video he's speaking like that ironically

>>40166549
u did it 27 days expecting change? grats u are a retard, thanks for eradicating your inferior genes from the pool by continueing to eat urself to death.

t. not a vegetarian/vegan/whatever but some1 who knows how much of a rtard u are

>>40166539
jesus christ that voice, that green skin... he isn't exactly the poster boy for health is he? Not v convincing

>>40166574

27 days is more than enough, even a drastic diet like keto shows results after a max of 14.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHrysja5lYw&t=319s

Just follow clarence

>>40166549
vegeterian=/=vegan you dumb fuck

>>40166539
I, personally have made up my mind that I will become vegan.

I honeslty dont care about the "muh ethics" argument. Because for me, ethics is subjective.

The thing is, you dont need meat and dairy, and it a FACT. And another FACT is that meat and dairy industry is the most damaging and toxic industry out there.

It would be ignorant as a human being to not react based on those 2 facts alone.

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I won't stop eating meat because I enjoy devouring weaker creatures than me, such as cows, chickens, fish, women, and pigs.

>>40166539
>So /fit/, why aren't you vegan yet?
Because it's pseudoscientific bullshit
>http://chaosandpain.blogspot.com/2010/07/vegetarianism-and-veganism-best.html
>http://chaosandpain.blogspot.com/2010/07/vegetarianism-and-veganism-are-as.html
>http://press.endocrine.org/doi/full/10.1210/jcem.85.1.6291
>Why Saturated Fat and Cholesterol Aren't Healthy
The video should be entitled why I'm so retarded I believe even more pseudoscience
>https://www.anabolicmen.com/fats-and-testosterone/
>http://chaosandpain.blogspot.com/2014/10/the-simplicity-of-dieting-it-really-is.html?m=1
>https://breakingmuscle.com/fuel/why-all-humans-need-to-eat-meat-for-health
>https://authoritynutrition.com/7-evidence-based-health-reasons-to-eat-meat/
>http://www.saragottfriedmd.com/does-meat-cause-cancer-revisiting-the-meat-igf-1-and-cancer-connection/
>https://rawfoodsos.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/minger_formal_response2.pdf
>https://deniseminger.com/2010/08/03/the-china-study-a-formal-analysis-and-response/
>https://deniseminger.com/2010/07/07/the-china-study-fact-or-fallac/
>http://www.foodrenegade.com/the-china-study-discredited/
>https://deniseminger.com/the-china-study/

>>40166539
Because I'm going to warm up some sausages filled with cheese.

>>40166539
If I stopped eating meat because some people mistreat animals I might as well cut off my dick becasue rape exists.

>>40167448
Lets agree that we dont give a fuck about animals. Lets agree that its about "natural selection", but what about environment? You dont believe that meat and dairy industry are most damaging industries for the environment despite all the research and facts?You dont believe that these industries are number 1 factor that contributes to climate change? If you do believe and u dont take action about that despite actually knowing that you do not need to eat meat and dairy to survive or build muscle (https://www.youtube.com/user/clarence0), i consider a human waste that should be killed on spot.

>Not growing your own meat in tube inside your expensive laboratory

What now moralfaging vegans?

>>40167524
>dude climate change lmao

i'll be dead before then. i don't give a f*ck.

>>40167524
it's unrealistic and hypocritical to think individuals changing consumption habits will decisively alter the production, especially given that consumption is dramatically increasing. if you want to actually do something you have to go to the source, work on new means or lobby to change policies. doing literally nothing is just not eating it

Im trying to lower my meat & dairy consumption for several reasons, but literally see no reason to cut them out completely

what vegan shit can I add to oatmeal to increase the calories? so far I use two servings of oats, one serving of ground flax seed, one serving of peanut butter, a banana, and roughly a cup of soy milk. it comes out to about 900 calories.

>>40167606
more oats

>>40167581
Why don't you die right now so in the future your children won't have to deal the with the problems u caused u fucking retard

>>40167598
it's easier to preach to the people than the industry tho, so you'll always have some clowns trying to make people feel guilty about the fuckups of the industry, claiming that it's their fault because they're the society and they just happen to exist. Of course if they went to some plant and protested there, screaming "quit your jobs! you're hurting nature!" they'd get either laughed at or beaten up.

>>40167614
make me

>>40167611
how could I have been so blind

>>40167598
If you dont eat the meat, it means you are not buying it, which means u are not supporting the industry. More vegans - less support to the industry. Less support means that meat prices go up, which then means that less people are willing to buy meat until the industry just dies.


I'd rather live being naive and unrealistic than being guilty about destroying the environment every god damn day, because i just want to eat something I don't actually need.

>>40167617
Not him, but you can't really preach to the industry at all. It's like screaming at a hammer, because you hit your finger. Only thing you can do to influence industry is pass the law that will restrict it in some way.

>>40167660
Congrats, now you have clean enviroment with milions of people that lost the jobs because of fall of the meat industry.

>>40167617
It is peoples fault that the environment is getting destroyed. The industry lives off people. If you buy meat, that means u are supporting the industry. The industry LIVES on because of YOUR support. That means, you should feel quilty.

And btw, power plants are not nearly as damaging as meat and dairy industry to the environment.

>>40167524
>but what about environment?
wow really? do you own a car or a motorcycle ? or if you don't do you take the bus/train/taxi ? farming, growing and gathering grains and vegetables of all sorts is associated with something that is causing environmental damage.
Are you even aware of how much damage a single combine truck can cause so they can harvest crops?!
Nitrogen based fertilizer for crops, deforestation , all sorts of chemicals and food additives used on plants etc etc

You should take some time to make an actual research instead of following a fad some youtuber is promoting. you should reconsider of who is the true human waste ..

>>40166539
Because my hatred of preachy morally righteous fad dieting vegans is rivalled only by my love of eating animal flesh.

I would rather get bowel cancer and die then be one of you.

>>40167671
Make some plant based food factories and hire them, problem solved.

>>40167710
I don't buy industrially processed meat. I support local farmers and butchers. So fuck you, mate.

>>40167754
>plant based food factories

they're called farms you stupid nu-male

>>40167755

>local farms

more land usage, more waste. factory farms exist because they're more efficient.

>>40167754
>problem solved
Yeah, why didn't Detroit thought of such cunning plan when car industry fell.

>>40167739
But you do realize that +70% of all the farms exist to feed the animals that we eat. I bet that you understand trophic levels, yes?

It's not like we have to get rid of everything that is causing pollution. Removing meat industries is far more easy and practical.

>>40166539

I find "why arent you vegan yet" insulting.

As its been explained to me you are "born vegan". Its pretty much exactly like homosexuality

>>40167775
"no"

>>40167769
>factory farms exist because they're more efficient.
In feeding big cities, yeah. That's not where I live.

>>40167758
Yes that's where the food comes from, but we need factories to prepare and pack them dumbass

>>40167775
>you are "born vegan"
which is why you suck on the teats of the next tree.

>>40167775
Well, veganism is pretty gay.

>>40167774
>Removing meat industries is far more easy and practical.


Lol, no.

>>40167818
Because you're so tough when you support torture and killing of other animals, don't give a fuck about environment and stuff

And i know that you care about looking tough, that's why you probably started going to the gym you insecure little bastard

>>40167834
It's already happening, people are starting to eat more plant-based because its fucking 2017

>>40167847
No, veganism is gay, because half of vegans are judgemental smug cunts who thinks they have moral high ground, while most meat eaters are regular citizens.

>>40167861
I won't argue that. I assumed from the thread we're talking about violent revolution. Not slow, gradual change.

>>40167739
http://www.peta.org/issues/animals-used-for-food/meat-environment/

..1 percent or more of global greenhouse-gas emissions are caused by animal agriculture...

Water

..Water Use

It takes an enormous amount of water to grow crops for animals to eat, clean filthy factory farms, and give animals water to drink. A single cow used for milk can drink up to 50 gallons of water per day—or twice that amount in hot weather—and it takes 683 gallons of water to produce just 1 gallon of milk. It takes more than 2,400 gallons of water to produce 1 pound of beef, while producing 1 pound of tofu only requires 244 gallons of water. By going vegan, one person can save approximately 219,000 gallons of water a year...

etc.

+ oil is going to end one day, meat is not, we can grow animals and kill them as much as we want until we all eat ourselves to death

>>40167873
Vegans you see on anonymous internet forums don't represent all vegans. Literally +50% of the people on forums are assholes and release their anger on others.

Go out sometimes, i have never seen a vegan irl starting a debate by him/herself.
>Inb4 some random youtube video

>>40167899
51 percent*

>>40167660
Good thing I steal all my meat

>>40167902
Why are you assuming I base my opinion on anonymous forums?
I based it on my expirience and although I don't know tons of vegans, about more or less half that I met were jugemental smug cunts.

>>40167940
Oh and if that makes you happy, if think veganism didn't make them that way. They seem like that from the start.

>>40167940
Well im sorry about that, bad luck maybe. If someone is an idiot, it's not because of veganism, its because of that person. Just like it doesn't mean all bodybuilders are assholes if some of them are. Veganism as itself is only about doing good to the planet and animals.

And it's not like they don't have a point if they disagree with your diet. You agree that its okay to torture animals from the day they are born. You realize that you don't seem like such a good person from that point of view?

>>40167979
>You agree that its okay to torture animals from the day they are born.

First of all that's insulting. No one is in favour of torturing animals. I can agree on enabling because of ignorance/lack of care.
Second, how do you know all animals are tortured? What if I buy meat from local farmer who treats them good and puts them to sleep before slaughter? Or local hunter that just shoots wild animal?

>>40168015
Local farms are even worse for the environment. Some people just think that it's unnecessary to slaughter animals, because we can get all the nutrition we need without doing so. I agree that years and years back we didn't have that advantage, but times are different now.

I don't understand why you would want to take a life of a wild animal for no reason (wild animals eat other animals, because its their only option for survival).

Most people just enjoy the taste of meat or cba to do research about plant based nutrition. And that's why we torture and kill animals, or pollute earth even more.

Being a vegan doesn't make you a good person, but it does make you a better person. Just like being a meat eater doesn't make you a bad person, but it makes you worse.

>>40166539
Gotta keep that hate up.

Imagine a soldier who gets only fruit and veggies to eat. He'll be all like "What? Put that rifle away from me, I don't wanna kill people".
There's no place in this crazy world for such thinking.

To end this post with something positive, I gotta say I felt really darn good when I went vegan (basically frugivore) for about 3 weeks.
Fat just melted away and I was in a really peaceful state of mind.

I will treat it like fasting in the future. Going full vegan for a week or two every now and then sure can't hurt.
No "lifestyle" should be taken to the extreme, a well organism is a balanced one.

>>40167660
>humanity finally turns around , we adopt the plant based diet.
>meat and dairy industries have fallen, meat agriculture no longer harms the environment
>now we destroy more land,natural habitat of many other creatures of this plant, peak in deforestation so we can have land for more plant based foods.
>food additives , chemicals,pesticides,fertilizers through the roof to support our new dietary choices.
>environment suffers once again
>human population become b12 deficient, hormonal imbalances due to insufficient saturated fats and cholesterol.
>more chemicals and genetic modification so we can produce enough plant based foods all year round.
>w-we made it

>>40168202
>>40167660
creatures of this planet*

>>40166539
because i'm poor and don't have the money to pay for overpriced food

>>40168202

>meat and dairy industries have fallen
>now we destroy more land

Haaaaaaaa

>more chemicals and genetic modification so we can produce enough plant based foods all year round.

I don't know how you think farming works but we already naturally have crops that we grow seasonally or year round and can be stored for long periods of time.

>>40168202
You know why that entire argument is worthless, right? With the exception of certain areas where extensive grazing is more efficient than agriculture, it takes waaaaay more resources (and thus arable land) to produce one kg of meat than it takes to produce 1kg of [random high-starch plant people can eat]. When matter is converted, energy is lost.

>>40168202

>hormone imbalances due to insufficient saturated fats and cholesterol

more like a major drop in heart disease deaths

>>40168084
>Local farms are even worse for the environment. Some people just think that it's unnecessary to slaughter animals, because we can get all the nutrition we need without doing so. I agree that years and years back we didn't have that advantage, but times are different now.
But they don't torture animals which was my point. Pollution is another thing.
>
I don't understand why you would want to take a life of a wild animal for no reason (wild animals eat other animals, because its their only option for survival).
Because we aren't some outside force, we are part of the enviroment. In this instance a predator. Also it's not like enviroment is at total equlibrium at all times. Sometimes there's more prey then predators, so hunter come in to regulate it. It's not like they run around woods killing everything they see. At least not in my country.
>Most people just enjoy the taste of meat or cba to do research about plant based nutrition. And that's why we torture and kill animals, or pollute earth even more.

Kill sure, but torture? How torture improve taste? Again you're assuming every meat producer is torturing animals which sin't true.

>
Being a vegan doesn't make you a good person, but it does make you a better person. Just like being a meat eater doesn't make you a bad person, but it makes you worse.

And that's why I don't like vegans. It doesn't make you better or worse. It just means you have different eating habits that might in some way affect industry in small degree. It's like giving 2$ to some foundation and thinking you repaired the world and rubbing it in the face of everyone around.

>>40168202

>what is b12 supplementation
>growing plants needs more land than growing animals and eating them

>>40168246
you cannot sustain billions of people with naturally grown crops...that is why gmo foods exist. it costs less, you produce more and you produce everything year round. Also there is a lot of harvest being lost due to weather conditions,insects, birds and other animals which is inevitable in most cases. What is your master plan to sustain this overpopulated planet without altering genetically, without harming the environment , natural habitat, animals, people ?
See the main problem is not meat agriculture or consumption of meat. The main problem is people and overpopulation. Being a vegan/vegetarian won't solve nothing is just a dietary choice.

>>40166539
Plants are pretty gay dood

>>40168338

What about our current cereal grains, legumes, and starches give you the impression that we wouldn't have access to them year round without further scientific intervention? In what period do vegetables not grow, nevermind that we can and do package, freeze, and can them?

>>40166539
Vegans are deficit in b12:

http://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamaneurology/fullarticle/784788
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16219987

High fiber diets reduce serum half life of vitamin D3:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6299329

Vegans have weaker bones due to lower calcium intake and vitamin D3 levels:

http://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/486478
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21092700

Vegans have a worse memory compared to non vegans due to creatine deficiency in vegans:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21118604
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14561278

Vegans have less gains compared to non vegans:

http://m.ajcn.nutrition.org/content/70/6/1032.full

Vegans are deficient in omega threes:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16087975
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16188209
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12323090
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12323085

Vegans are deficit in carnitine:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21753065
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2756917
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1628441/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11043928

>>40166539
Vegans are deficient in taurine:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3354491

Vegans are deficient in iodine:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12748410
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21613354

Vegans are deficient in Coenzyme Q10:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16873950

Vegans are deficient in iron due to the fact that iron from plant sources is less bioavailable than iron from meat sources:

https://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/Iron-HealthProfessional/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11269606

Vegans are deficient in vitamin A:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19103647
http://m.jn.nutrition.org/content/137/11/2346.full

Vegans have a lower sperm count than non vegans:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/35465
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3257705/

Vegans have lower testosterone than non vegans:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1435181
http://m.ajcn.nutrition.org/content/42/1/127.abstract
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/159772
http://m.jap.physiology.org/content/82/1/49

Veganism causes loss of libido and erectile dysfunction:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21353476

>>40168573

>starts up with the same list of bullshit that gets debunked in every thread

>>40166539
social reasons. i dont want to be grouped in with a bunch of liberal feminist retards

>>40166539
Children who are raised on strict vegan diets do not grow normally:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/4067152
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8005079

Children develop rickets after prolonged periods of strict vegetarian diets:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1874810/pdf/canmedaj01383-0052.pdf

"There are some links between vegetarians and lower birthweight and earlier labour"

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7788369

Effects of vitamin B12 and folate deficiency on brain development in children:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3137939/

"Particular attention should be paid to adequate protein intake and sources of essential fatty acids, iron, zinc, calcium, and vitamins B12 and D. Supplementation may be required in cases of strict vegetarian diets with no intake of any animal products."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2912628/

These next five are case studies:

Cerebral atrophy in a vitamin B12-deficient infant of a vegetarian mother:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25076673

Severe megaloblastic anemia in child breast fed by a vegetarian mother:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8442642

Consequences of exclusive breast-feeding in vegan mother newborn - case report:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19748244

Nutritional vitamin B12 deficiency in a breast-fed infant of a vegan-diet mother:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3948463

"We report the case of a 7 month-old girl that presented with acute anemia, generalized muscular hypotonia and failure to thrive. Laboratory evaluation revealed cobalamin deficiency, due to a vegan diet of the mother."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18293883

>>40168418
consider that most plants don't tolerate very well low temperatures. some vegetables don't grow at all during winter time.if you interfere with how nature works you raise other problems . if you cant grow you cannot package,freeze or can. again take in consideration huge losses due to weather or insects or whatever. but either way there will be problems similar to those we have with meat agriculture.this mass production of everything and mass consumerism is taking its toll to this planet. you want to control the damage then control the population.

>>40168588
>debunked
All you vegans do is say that I'm wrong, stick your fingers in your ears and say "LALALALALA" then declare victory. Yeah that's the definition of debunking lol

>>40168903

like what you did in this thread? >>40138813

>>40169045
Yes exactly, you refuse to accept the results of the studies and refuse to post evidence backing up your claims.

>>40168262
>more like a major drop in heart disease deaths
>>40167220

>>40166539
Because I'm not an autistic retard who's looking forward to his 90s at 21

>>40168588
>this level of projection

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>>40166539
Coconut oil is 60% saturated fat.

Avocado is 15% saturated fat.

This fucking retard does not know saturated fat is in plants

>>40166539
keto masterrace. You do your sugar, bro, it'll give you Alzheimer's and you deserve it.

>>40167010
Bitch, please. Processed vegan food, with all the production steps, packaging, and obesogenic effects is a lot worse for the environment than meat. Coca cola and cupcakes are vegan, at what cost?

>>40167524
Dude, it peak climate change hits it will be because carb-fed fat fucks who voted Trump. And when that happens and society breaks down, and we run out of animals? Fat scooty puff cunts provide a lot of meat.

>>40166539
every vegan/vegitarian in this thread is beta af.
>not wanting to juice and die looking like a freaky cunt
KYS

i've tried it for 3 weeks.
more gas
but gas smells less horrendous

i'm gonna go meaty again this weekend, i got some ostrich steak in the freezer thats winking at me

>>40166560
If you wan't to live healthy and long life than this.

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>a world without the consumption of animal products

Good luck growing crops without manure, blood, and bone.

I would like to go semi-vegan. I still want to eat fish, eggs, and drink milk.

>>40166574
> eat yourself to death because of meat and dairy

Are vegans immortals now?

I'll take "shit vegans believe" for $1000, Alex...

>>40166539
>High LDL's cause endolethlial cell damage
no they dont. this isn't true. and it is right. artherosclerorsis is reversible until focal calcification takes place, which is caused by other factors and has nothing to do with LDL. this is why you don't get your information from Google searches and think it replaces an actual education.

The cause of arteriosclerosis is first and foremost endolethium damage which has nothing to do with LDL's. After the subendothelial connective tissue is damaged, the LDL's may deposit. however, these lipid plaques are removable simply by increasing HDL concentration and increased cardiovascular activity. CAD is caused by a CALCIFIED plaque reaching the heart blood vessels which is a problem.

>>40166539
Because I'm not a faggot.

>>40166539
Because I'm not gullible

>>40166597
>Just follow clarence
This shut up the meat cucks pretty quickly

>BUT BUT BUT HE USES ROIDS
>BUT BUT BUT HE GOT GAINS BEFORE HE WENT VEGAN!

>>40176026
Yes exactly, he wouldn't be as strong as he is now without eating meat and using steroids.

>>40172986
I have a vegan friend and all she does is eat pizza.

>>40168573
>Vegans are deficit in b12:
so take b12
>High fiber diets reduce serum half life of vitamin D3:
so take vitamin d
>Vegans have weaker bones due to lower calcium intake and vitamin D3 levels:
see above and take calcium
>memory
take creatine
>omega threes
take fish oil pills
>carnitine
take that too

>everything else

you ever heard of a multivitamin you fucking N I G G E R

>>40176351
>vegan diets are healtier as long as you take all these pills!

>>40176351
or you could just eat food like a normal human being and not be dependent on pills.

>>40172986
Coca cola, cupcakes, Oreos, and potato chips weren't made to be vegan you mong

>>40176373
>vegetation evolved with human lifestyle concerns in mind

>>40176367
>2017
>not having a breakfast cereal consisting solely of pills and milk so a dumb chicken can keep fucking around for a few more days before it gets splatter by a car
Degenerate

>>40176351
Fish oil isn't vegan you stupid bitch

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>>40176351
>>40176398

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>>40176351
>diet lacks nutrients to the point where it has to be propped up with a whole cabinet of pills to be feasible
>all of which could be circumvented by just eating a normal healthy diet
>but veganism is totally healthier you shitlord

>haven't eaten meat in 3 days
>feel like dog shit right now

It looks like meat is back on the menu boys.

>>40176428
Not vegetarian/vegan, but I feel ok if I go without meat for extended periods of time.
Feel like a crack addict if I go without carbs for a couple of days though.

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>>40166539
I, personally, was quite sceptical about going vegan, but after watching clarence0 for a while, I honestly can't point out why I should not go vegan. Redpill me please

>>40177181
yea need ltos of suplementation and variation in your diet. So if you dont already know how to cook, eat varied, have good cooking skills and schedueled eating down then youll fuck up and just eat bland food.

>>40166539
>Why aren't you vegan?
Because I don't want to be. I don't care if other people want to be vegan. I have good bloodwork and I'm making gains with my current diet. I don't care about the meat industry and could give less of a fuck about cows (if you've ever spent time with one you'll know they tied for most retarded barnyard animals with chickens). It seems like these threads are mostly made for (you)s and I guess I contributed to it by responding.

>>40166539
Red pill time kids

>A balancee of plant based whole foods is the long-term healthiest diet

>Meat will give you more gains

>>40177181
>going vegan because of some random guy who got 99% of his gains before going vegan and was on gear
>you need supplements to stay healthy
>depending on where you live the food might be more expensive

>>40177480
>everybody whos stronger than u on gear
>not needing supplements to be healthy as a non-vegan
>depending on where you live quality lean meat might be expensive

>>40167220
TheADA, BHF, WHO etc are all psuedoscience trust me read this blog link bro

Fucking heeelllll

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>>40177582
>everybody whos stronger than u on gear
reading comprehension?

>not needing supplements to be healthy as a non-vegan
the only supplement i need is vitamin D and that's only in the winter. everything else i get through diet. what now?

>>40177610
There are multiple studies showing that u can gain muscle as much as a nonvegan as a vegan

If you are not a stupid fuck then as a vegan the only thing u need is B12, aside from that there are no other things u can't get out of your diet.

English is not my main language, which should be obvious, so don't jump on me about that.

>>40177664
i never said anything about gaining muscle. clarence is a genetic freak but he did use, it's even in his videos. besides you can use your eyes and just look at him. 100 kg with relatively low BF at 5'10? HIGHLY unlikely and FFMI confirms it.

if someone expects to become as strong as clarence is because of a diet then he is delusional.

>>40177732
lets forget about the roids we can agree to disagree at this point

but then again, im not stating that its due to the diet that he is what he is, but im saying the he is the proof that vegan diet will not a problem nor an obstacle when its about attaining a great physique while being a healthy human being, so why not go vegan, when its not the problem as a diet itself?

>>40177779
EDIT
..im saying that he is the proof that vegan diet will not a be problem nor an obstacle..

>>40166539
>giving skinnyfats 1g/kg coconut oil is bad, so all saturated fats at every quantity are bad for everyone and vice versa for unsaturated fat
>tinfoil theories involving the food industry and strawman butthurt because mcdougall has his own biases and a lower h-index and media coverage than krauss
>starving infants before breastfeeding, some animals (but not great apes and bears), and low IQ tribal niggers that couldn't integrate into society have low cholesterol - let's pretend the literature on low cholesterol and adverse health outcomes is nonexistent - and statin trials confounded with other independent risk factors and patients with pre-existing disease show benefit therefore the lower the cholesterol the better for primary prevention!
>dietary cholesterol looks bad in skinnyfats who don't exercise and don't have a high cholesterol requirement when they consume a diet high in refined carbohydrates and saturated fat and low in fiber and polyunsaturated fat and protein that fucks up their liver's ability to handle it
>epidemiology useless when used alone...
>...but let me use it anyway to prove my point that lipoprotein size is irrelevant and ignore the basic science literature showing otherwise!
>giving rheumatoid arthritis patients a complex intervention changing a million different things at once means all animal products are universally bad and plants are good!
>oh and let me cherry-pick one study on eggs to really show how scientifically illiterate i am!

>>40177779

You can't really say he's an example of the vegan diet not being an obstacle to attaining a great physique when he didn't obtain it while vegan. Best you can say is it's not an insurmountable obstacle to maintaining it.

>>40177906
So you honestly believe that while u can attain that kind of physique while being vegan, its not possible to obtain it?

>>40167614

I'm not having kids so it's fine

>>40177932

I don't believe you can attain it and its common knowledge that he didn't. Maintenance is significantly easier than achieving it in the first place.

>>40177964
>not wanting to live in a society when ppl actually care about others and about the future

>being this selfish

>>40177998

look I didn't tell people to have kids, especially when they decided to do this in full knowledge of global warming

why is it upto me to stop the retard punching himself in the face? I got mine and that's good enough for me

>>40177985

So you just going to ignore all the studies about gaining muscle as a vegan is just as effective as being a nonvegan?

Can't you just admit that u just believe what you like and want to believe and what your parents and elementary school biology taught you?

>being this ignorant so u can live quilty free by eating meat
>cant admit that meat and dairy industry are the most damaging industries to the environment despite all the studies and facts in front of you
>eating meat while u would never be capable of killing a cow,pig or a sheep while he looks into your eyes
>paying others to do that for you
>actually believeing theres a difference between a mentioned animals and your dog or cat, believing that they are not sentinent beings and dont feel fear about dying

>>40178079

I'm not aware of any studies that have used people with LBM and BF levels even close to Clarence Kennedy. Shit ain't linear - the effectiveness of something on relatively untrained lifters can be a very different thing to its effects on high level lifters.

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>>40168573
>Vegans are deficit in b12:
False.

>High fiber diets reduce serum half life of vitamin
False.

>Vegans have weaker bones due to lower calcium intake and vitamin D3 levels:
False.

>Vegans have a worse memory compared to non vegans due to creatine deficiency in vegans:
False.

>Vegans have less gains compared to non vegans:
False.

>Vegans are deficient in omega threes:
False.

>Vegans are deficit in carnitine:
False.

>>40168584
>Vegans are deficient in taurine:
False.

>Vegans are deficient in iodine:
False.

>Vegans are deficient in Coenzyme Q10:
False.

>Vegans are deficient in iron due to the fact that iron from plant sources is less bioavailable than iron from meat sources:
False.

>Vegans are deficient in vitamin A:
False.

>Vegans have a lower sperm count than non vegans:
False.

>Vegans have lower testosterone than non vegans:
False.

>Veganism causes loss of libido and erectile dysfunction:
False.

>>40168623
>Children who are raised on strict vegan diets do not grow normally:
False.

>Children develop rickets after prolonged periods of strict vegetarian diets:
False.

>"There are some links between vegetarians and lower birthweight and earlier labour"
False.

>Effects of vitamin B12 and folate deficiency on brain development in children:
False.

>"Particular attention should be paid to adequate protein intake and sources of essential fatty acids, iron, zinc, calcium, and vitamins B12 and D. Supplementation may be required in cases of strict vegetarian diets with no intake of any animal products."
False.

>Cerebral atrophy in a vitamin B12-deficient infant of a vegetarian mother:
False.
>Severe megaloblastic anemia in child breast fed by a vegetarian mother:
False.

>Consequences of exclusive breast-feeding in vegan mother newborn - case report:
False.

>Nutritional vitamin B12 deficiency in a breast-fed infant of a vegan-diet mother:
False.

>>40178099
any link to support your claims?

>>40178099
you see how that guy cited sources and you just said false with nothing to refute those sources?
Thats because you're a cunt.
if your monkey pic is supposed to refute it, its kinda flawed.
Most primates eat a mainly vegetable based diet, with occasional insects and rodents so of course the lab monkey will do better on the veg diet, it's what they fuckig evolved to eat.

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>>40178099
He says every argument against vegans are false without providing any arguments or proof, and shows a picture of two monkey.
He sure convinced me, im going vegan now.

>>40178098
So you just think that u are clarence kennedy lvl and think u cant obtain that physique while being a vegan?(sry IF i didnt actually understand what u meant by writing post, but I can tell you that, u are not special, and thus why u could get the same results as being vegan as non vegan if u dont fuck up)

U HONESTLY really believe that a normal human being, who is a not a stupid fuck, cant obtain decent physique while being vegan even by /fit/ standards as effectively as a nonvegan?

>>40178099
Are you a liberal or a feminist?

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>>40178125
Not to mention that chimps are carnivores and literally eat human children.

>muh harmonious nature
>muh lion shall lay with muh lamb

hipster bullshit.
http://voices.nationalgeographic.com/2013/04/13/frodo-a-glimpse-into-the-retirement-of-an-infamous-alpha-male/

>>40178125
Worse, the chow they got contains whey

http://dabamirror.sci-hub.cc/918f8b3a06532a72949569ee87fee285/kemnitz1993.pdf

The "human equivalent" is just propaganda by Linksvayer, who is, no surprise, a vegan.

And these calorie restriction studies aren't unequivocal

https://www.nia.nih.gov/newsroom/2012/08/nih-study-finds-calorie-restriction-does-not-affect-survival

>>40178099
>FALSE
>FALSE
>FALSE
>EXTERMINATE!
>EXTERMINATE!

The lack of vitB12 and other vital nutrients inherent in meat is eating your brain.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/27/magazine/hunting-a-chimp-on-a-killing-spree.html

>>40178125
>Thats because you're a cunt.
Typical meat eater. Resorting to aggressive behaviour when he's proven wrong and doesn't get his way.

>>40178240
Typical meat eater
>FALSE

see what i did there?

>>40178240
Typical demented vegan

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>>40178125
>Most primates eat a mainly vegetable based diet, with occasional insects and rodents so of course the lab monkey will do better on the veg diet, it's what they fuckig evolved to eat.

What makes you think humans won't thrive best on a plant based diet then? After all, we evolved from great apes which eat a plant based diet.

>>40178282

Because the ones we are most closely related to are omnivorous little fuckers.

>>40178282
as the anon says: because the ones closest related to us are hungry enough for meat to eat their own species, and when the revolution comes I'll eat you and your little dog too, you whiny cunt.

>>40166539
Because I like me my offals.

>>40178282
>mainly

theres the rub. mainly plants, but some animal broteins.

>>40178294
We have made no physiological adaptations to eat meat (>http://michaelbluejay.com/veg/natural.html)

and even the editor and chief of the american college of cardiology doctor William C. Roberts has stated that only herbivores animals can develope atherosclerosis, therefore we have the lipid metabolism of a herbivore. >https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3603726/

does anybody try to eat more "ethical" meats? (ethical as in environmentla impact)
I will shill the fuck out of ostrich meat, its good stuff. tasty as fuck and requires way less food and land per KG of meat than a cow

>>40178348
http://www.peta.org/living/food/eat-fish/
http://www.peta.org/living/food/shellfish/

>>40178345
that guys chimp info is way off. chimps, especially bonobos are highly organized pack hunters when they get the meaty cravings.

>>40178345
I guess the fact that we don't have a functioning cecum, and our closest relatives do, is just a coincidence.

>>40178364
the pantless thundergoose is not a fish, it is a large bird.

>>40178376
they hunt because they have to, to survive,

you on the other hand, can survive without hunting and killing, because u are a human and you live in a modern society and u have to options available.

I bet u actually couldnt kill a cow with a knife when he looks into your eyes begging for his life. U are paying others to do it for you.

>>40178419
And you couldn't turn wheat into bread.

But that doesn't stop you from eating it.

>>40178419
i've not personally killed a cow, but i have killed deer, rabbit, pheasant and pigeon.
also slaughterhouses (the non jewish/muslim ones) stun the animals first

>>40178419
you are anthropomorphising cows.

>>40178345
his lifespan thing is off too. cetaceans are the longest living mammals and their diet is almost exclusively animal protein

>>40166539
but I am :^)

>>40178345
and he ignores his own cultural argument by saying we are naturally repelled by raw meat and blood, and we wouldn't eat roadkill. plenty of country folk do this, it's normal behaviour in their culture.

>>40166539
this is bait, ignore.

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>>40178099
WTF I LOVE VEGAN NOW

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>>40178099

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>>40178099
THE MONKEY ON THE LEFT WAS RESTRICTED

IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH WHAT HE ATE

CR JUST DOES THAT SHIT.

THIS PROVES NOTHING FAGGOT FUCK

>>40178099
>False
And yet he posted scientific studies conclusively proving his points while you posted nothing

>>40177601
>TheADA, BHF, WHO etc are all psuedoscience
Just because their names have acronyms doesn't mean they can't shitily interpret data, fall for memes and do junk science and you shouldn't be so impressed when they do that your willing to ignore all scientific. nutritional and biological evidence for how healthy meat is.
>trust me read this blog link bro
The fact your still trying to continue down this line of argumention clearly shows you've literally done everything but read. The blog I posted has studies in it besides the other studies I posted, which you'd know if you actually took a look at any of it

this. is. bait.

stop replying to vegfags and eat meat.