Will a natty, recreational lifter ever have to train in a style

im doing canditos 6 week and its good

youll need to switch to an advanced program just whenever you stall on an intermediate program

>>40116364

thanks for the anecdote on Candito.

I think what I was trying to say with my main question, is that once you get to the point where you 100% stall out on intermediate programs, so advanced is the only way, if you aren't a competitor won't your physique be at the point where just maintaining indefinitely is perfectly ok, assuming your lean enough?

Like once you hit that "advanced programs is all you have left" won't your physique/muscle be like 95% of what your potential is?

>>40116397
beginner programs= quickest weight increases
intermediate= slower
advanced = slowest

progress would be slow and youd eventually hit your genetic limit but dont worry about it

>>40116324
>Now obviously one would eventually reach the "advanced" stage, and then need an advanced style workout, but is it a case of just diminishing returns when you look at the time and effort to reach/surpass advanced, as a recreational lifter?

That's exactly the point of intermediate and advanced programs. You can't keep making gains at the rate of a beginner, but if you keep on a beginner program you will eventually stall.

>>40116324
Not advanced myself, maybe someone actually there can offer first hand experience. Don't see why I can't offer my 2c though.

My view is like yours, if/when you cap out on intermediate programs you are faced with a choice of if you really want to progress it will no longer be a casual hobby and require serious dedication. Lacking that dedication and just enjoying the health/aesthetic benefits you basically just maintain the muscle mass/diet at a hobby level rather than professional level. Nothing wrong with that, just means you view it as something you do in moderation. Similarly nothing wrong with going full blown autistic 5%er mode as well, all comes down to priorities... Are you happy with good physique and strength or do you want a 300kg DL at the expense of whatever else you fill your time with?

>>40116561
Should maybe point out that I did reach an 'advanced' level with squash, just not lifting, so maybe there is some basis to my view. That is made national level junior comps, knew I lacked the ability to go full time pro so essentially just maintained that level from 18-25 when I stopped playing. I enjoyed the game, didn't have the time/interest/ability to go beyond there so was enjoyable to continue without any real improvement per-say. Treating lifting the same, and don't see why it'd be any different, enjoyable hobby, at some stage it'll reach diminishing returns where I need to commit a lot more than I'm willing and from there I'll maintain till something else grabs my attention.
So:
> Will a natty, recreational lifter ever have to train in a style more "advanced" then a good intermediate program?

No, almost definitely no need to use 'advanced' programming

>>40116561
>>40116618

Thank you, you basically answered what I was wondering.

For some background, I am 5'9, 170lbs, and around maybe 15% bodyfat? I don't know, I don't have veins everywhere like I did 15lbs ago but I have that faint abs look a lot of shirtless football/basketball players have. All my lifts are right around the "advanced" level according to exrx, and I was running Gregg Nickol's average to savage program, which is either an advanced program or intermediate but definitely geared towards power lifting.

I was at the gym for ~2-3 hours 4 days/wk and that's including warming up, and coupled with work I was averaging like 6 hours of sleep/night just because I have other hobbies/goals I wanted to work on.... it just seemed to be too much work for not wanting to be competitive.

So now I'm either going to run Candito's intermediate or some other similar programs instead I think, maybe only lift like 3x/wk.

>>40116692
Welcome mate, maybe others can offer alternate views but that's my experience. Did similar with distance running but was at best lower intermediate, not verging on advanced by any definition (was ~5m/km for half marathons, would need 4m/km or less for advanced I'd say).

Experience with Nuckols programs? I tried it for one 4 week block once then got distracted for some reason. Vague memory of it feeling too low volume but maybe I should reconsider as I did hit a couple of pb's on it.

To echo the other anon I am pretty consistently on Candito's intermediate for last ~9 months and enjoy it. Tinker with it here and there/try other things for 4-6 week blocks but I like his approach.

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427KB, 1280x720px

>>40116561
this, this is the real life response

after a certain point you need to train with some monstrous volume, and you will accumulate more injuries and need to be more careful about recovery

the most advanced guys on /fit/ are all running super high volume Sheiko templates and other similarly tough programs and live, eat, and breathe lifting

webm related your future

>>40116830
>super high volume Sheiko templates
40,000 lbs is not high volume.

>>40116324

Eventually, yes. Even if he's not 'advanced' by a lot of standards.

The issue with a lot of intermediate programs is that they run hard on the intensity and use that to push gains in a short period rather than using volume over a longer period. This means they are brutal on recovery (if you've ever tried to run Texas Method, you'll know what I mean). If you're a recreational guy, odds are you don't want to do everything required out of the gym to make that work.

Which entails jumping off onto less aggressive program much sooner than someone hyper-dedicated might be able to get away with.