Is Keto a scam? >Keto diet gurus are mostly overweight (Jimmy

>>39744437

Shit is retarded and unhealthy

PMSF is a thing for cutting but keto is retarded

>>39744437
>Is Keto a scam?
>
>>Still think that bread, sweet potatoes, rice, corn, and fruit are causing people to gain weight

Thats true though. Of the above i only truly approve of sweet potatoes, they give you raw power. Rice is alright if youre poor and the true benefits of fruit can be gained in a daily MV

I'm on day 2. My latest pee stick put me at moderate so I think I'm officially in ketosis.

>burns when I pee (need to drink more water i guess)
>hungry - I thought I wasn't supposed to get hungry? though i'm eating way more protein than that pie chart indicates, more like the protein and fats are reversed
>haven't pooed despite eating a protein bar with a lot of fiber both days
>haven't worked out because i'm too tired and cranky and fuck everything
>sucking down powerade zero like no tomorrow
>had something like 400% daily allowance of sodium today
>am counting calories - i thought you still had to make sure you ate at a deficit?

>>39744437
Going into keto tmr. 3 days till im in and cardio for two after. I'll be 5 lbs lighter + water weight by xmas. Cut & lean

>>39744476
the protein and fats are NOT reversed. too much protein will kick you out of keto
eat vegetables and water not fake bullshit
and yes you absolutely still need to eat at a deficit

>>39744437
It's a scam If you do it like that. Swap the fat percentage with the protein percentage, and it's fine

>>39744488
i hadn't heard that....part of the reason i started was so i could get more protein without starches hogging up my calories.

>>39744476
>eating a protein bar with high fiber
>drinking Powerade

Not doing keto

>>39744437
It works.

Idk about your first point, I don't follow overweight gurus but there are plenty of former fatties that went on keto and it seems the major researchers aren't obese.

Keto doesn't claim that calories don't count. But if you are in a ketogenic state, you'll probably find yourself being more full with than if you ate the same amount of calories on a traditional diet.

I lost my first 30 pounds on it, but I love carbs so I'm no longer doing that shit.

>>39744512
the powerade zero doesn't have any carbs or calories, or at least it's low enough they don't have to include them on their nutritional facts.

the protein bar was quest...something like net 2 or 3 carbs

i've had 27 g of carbs today with 14 of that being fiber, so net 13 g of carbs.

keto stick was small this morning and moderate tonight. we'll see tomorrow.

>>39744472
>the true benefits of fruit can be gained in a daily MV
>fiber can be gained with an MV
>fructose to kickstart your morning can be gained with an MV
Either I took the bait, or you're retarded.

>>39744437
>implying corn and other grain derivatives combined with seed oils aren't the biggest cause of obesity

Not so thinly veiled vegan thread detected. Inb4 you try to claim animal fats cause diabetes.

>>39744512
Fiber isn't anti-keto because fiber, while a macro, it's completely unavailable to us humans, and as such, CANNOT count into our daily carb ingestion, idiot.

Ketos most beneficial when you do it on a caloric deficit.

My meals tomorrow will be
Water all day
Monster energy drink
Sugar if needed
IF till 8pm
Salad with chicken, cheese, spinach, zuccini, pinapple, green peppers or soup with broccoli, celery, chicken breast, carrots, and some spices.

I can eat as much as i want.

You are allowed up to 40 - 80 carbs based on your body and youll still be in keto. Its a super easy and strong diet as long as you watch your intake of sodium and processed foods.

>>39744526
>fiber and fructose can only be found in fruit

>>39744538
Not that guy and I disagree with OP, but what are you proposing instead of fruit? A tablespoon of fructose, a glass of water with metamucil, and a multivitamin? Why not just eat some fucking fruit instead of getting an inferior analog just to be a contrary faggot?

>>39744437
It'd not a scam since it's not something you have to pay for, apart from whatever food choice when you go grocery shopping which is the same anyway.

Whether it's effective or not is another story, it's really difficult to make those macros and I was dousing food with vegetable oil and feeling gross.

>>39744472

>the true benefits of fruit can be gained in a daily MV

Only if your MV is made out of fruit. A multi will give you vitamin C and some other vitamins and minerals. Fruit gives you things like flavanols and phenolic acids. Vitamins/minerals keep your body running, phytochemicals found in fruits, sweet potatoes, whole grains, etc keep your body running well.

The "you don't have to count calories" thing was a gimmick made by specific keto diet people on the (founded) basis that protein/fat usually fills you up quicker but they underestimated the gluttony of fatfucks. That's why people who are HUGE and do keto without calorie counting lose weight quickly because feeling fuller is a thing but they get used to it and end up putting away 3000-4000 calories of meat so they plateau at like 250-300lbs

>>39744529

> Inb4 you try to claim animal fats cause diabetes.

Not OP, but

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27733250

>>39744602
>phytochemicals found in fruits, sweet potatoes, whole grains, etc keep your body running well.

Momscience breh. Phytochemicals can be good or bad, but the vast majority do nothing. Also kek at mentioning grains, phytotoxins in many grains and legumes are terrible for you.

I've been doing it, but like other people said you still have to count calories, and you do still need SOME carbs to live. I've been doing 1200-1800kcal and 10-30 carbs a day and had fairly decent success (about 70 pounds lost in a little over a year, bear in mind I was 310 so I had a lot to lose and getting down from 240 to 170 will probably take three to four times as long).

I really don't think I'll ever go back to eating carbohydrates, sweets/carbs rarely ever seem enticing to me now and usually the slightest taste of something sweet (artificial or other-wise) makes me want to throw up. I'd rather live the rest of my life eating like I do than force myself to like something unhealthy and then become addicted to it like I was

>>39744609
I was wondering when the sugar shill vegan would crawl onto this thread. I'll admit though, i thought you were OP.

>>39744635
You don't need any carbs to live. Carbs are not an essential macronutrient.

That being said, fruits and vegetables have carbs so any remotely healthy diet is going to have some carbs in it. You don't need carbs but you do need vitamin c.

>>39744609
Lol wrong spectrum bro. The fact that you're cutting sugar and carbs from your diet is what causes the insulin levels to go haywire. Low blood sugar is common for me whenever im in ketosis. After a couple weeks it's manageable but I still have to eat sugar or gum here and there. Caused by the american diet and all the processed foods you ate growing up. Your pancreas needs to be babied if you want zero side effects.

>>39744646
I do have fruit and vegetables all the time. Usually green vegetables and berries but on a day I set aside to go to 30 I'll have an orange, apple, banana, etc

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>>39744627

>Momscience

Not at all. This is a major reason why plant-based are seen as so healthy, and why vegetables specifically lie at the heart of all diet recommendations.

http://www.aicr.org/reduce-your-cancer-risk/diet/elements_phytochemicals.html

Yes, even whole grains have valuable phytochemicals, sometimes even more than some vegetables.

>>39744636

>post objective science that makes an already unhealthy thing look more unhealthy
>"must be a shill working for Big Sugar"

>>39744682
>>39744690
Samefag vegan on suicide watch. Nobody here is ever going to take your hilariously nuts bullshit seriously.

>>39744701

Hmm?

>>39744488
I do a 40-50% protein and stay in ketosis. But people are different.

>>39744499
rip kidneys

I'm only a few weeks in and I've lost 20 pounds. It works just fine.

>>39744788
Starting weight? I'm hoping to lose 20lbs in ~6 weeks but I don't have very much to lose. 20 lbs will put me at like what I was in high school.

>>39744636
how is he a shill, he is not promoting anything

p good website

http://qualitycounts.com/fpcarbohydrates.html
http://qualitycounts.com/fpdiets.htm
http://www.qualitycounts.com/insulinandaging.html
http://www.qualitycounts.com/fppotbellies.htm

How do I into keto? I got a lot mixed information a while ago. So I still have to count calories, but how should my macros be? Does it have to be mostly fat? How is it bulking on keto? Will it affect my routine? I was hoping to switch to a PPL routine or some kind of new full body split soon. Is this one of those meme diets that promise a lot of fat loss and muscle gain?

can i go into anti keto if i eat a load of carbs and little fat and protein

Keto makes my chest break out in rash. Otherwise I love it because my teeth don't hurt. I'm currently not in ketosis because I eat too much protein.

>>39744573
getting fibre from vegies, perhaps?

Also not sure why you would ever need fructose if youre on a ketogenic diet

>>39744437
Keto isnt more effective than any other diet. Its very strict. And calories do matter. And the lack of fruits and vegetables makes it less healthy.

>>39746565
>lack of vegetables
Why would you not eat vegetables on a keto diet?

What sort of fluctuation should be expected in keto?

I guess I expected it to be linear, but my pee sticks are all over the place and sometimes don't seem to align with what I'm eating.

>>39744437
There are no scientific studies demonstrating an additional effect of keto compared to a regular hypocaloric diet. Plus your nutritional intake will obviously be impaired by placing such a strict restriction of carbs. It seems to work for some people though, probably because the high protein intake makes them more satiated with fewer calories so they have an easier time sticking to their diet.

>>39744437

traditional keto (like 80% fat) is pure shit for any bodybuilder.

The "bro" keto where you eat like 50% protein doesn't even put you into ketosis because you have so much protein in your body. Granted it will give you good results while cutting if you're above 13% bodyfat.

>>39746602
Because he's ignorant.

>>39747112
pee sticks indicate the concentration of ketones in your urine, they are no indication of whether your body is in ketosis, much less keto adapted.
>>39747136
>high protein intake
keto = high fat, very low carb, adequate protein
>There are no scientific studies demonstrating an additional effect of keto compared to a regular hypocaloric diet
Here's a very accessible literature review on the therapeutic effects of very low carbohydrate (ketogenic) diets: http://www.nature.com/ejcn/journal/v67/n8/full/ejcn2013116a.html

The findings concerning type 2 diabetes are notable, but here are the findings concerning weight loss that people on /fit/ would care about:
>Here we can summarize (listed in order of importance and available evidence) that the weight-loss effect of VLCKD seems to be caused by several factors:

>Reduction in appetite due to higher satiety effect of proteins,12, 22 effects on appetite control hormones21 and to a possible direct appetite-suppressant action of the KBs.23
>Reduction in lipogenesis and increased lipolysis.7, 10
>Reduction in the resting respiratory quotient and, therefore, greater metabolic efficiency in consuming fats.20, 24
>Increased metabolic costs of gluconeogenesis and the thermic effect of proteins.13, 18
>your nutritional intake will obviously be impaired by placing such a strict restriction of carbs
Any major micronutrients you miss out on by cutting out carbs can be compensated for in fibrous carboyhydrate sources that don't push you out of keto, as well as other foods that fit in the other two macronutrient groups, as well as supplements if you absolutely need to.

>>39747238
how do you know when you're in ketosis if not for pee sticks?

its good for getting rid of stubborn fat when already skinny

fat people should eat normal restricted

>>39747238
>Reduction in appetite due to higher satiety effect of proteins
Well, that's basically what I said innit. The other positive factors might be due to keto, but you can't conclusively say it's not just due to the fact the subjects are eating less since they feel more satiated.

>>39744472
Your body doesn't absorb all the vitamins from a multi. Some micronutrients need the presense/absense of others to be taken up well.

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>>39744437


Ketogenic diet mimics fasting

anabolic diet or cyclical ketogenic diet with days of fasting

Is probably the best diet I have had experience with

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dVArDzYynYc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9Aw0P7GjHE

>>39747249
Basically you don't know for sure. You'll be in "keto" within about 12-48 hours of eliminating carbs and upping your fat intake. It'll happen quicker if you're in a fasted state and do cardio, because you'll deplete glycogen reserves in your muscles and your body will be forced to metabolise something other than glucose to get energy. The only way to know you're in keto for sure is to get a blood test I'm pretty sure.

But it's possible to turn your sticks purple while not in keto, and it's possible to be in keto and get no response from the sticks at all. As well as the sticks, bad breath, fatigue, constantly peeing, and having flatter looking muscles all indicate "keto".

Worry more about getting out of "keto" and getting into keto, or better put, becoming keto adapted, which is when your body stops treating ketogenic metabolic pathways as a temporary thing while it waits for you to start feeding it carbs again, and starts to thrive on the diet. You'll feel energised, you'll start losing fat, you'll feel satiated more often as your body starts to metabolise its own adipose tissue, and fat and other flavours will taste much better.
>>39747258
I feel like this misses something in the psychology of fatasses. When you tell people they can eat what they like so long as they keep their calories down, they're less likely to stick to it. I think you need to make the rules of the game strict so they don't slip up.

keto was great i did it for about one n half months

you don't get those massive hunger pains

energy wise was also great

limitations sucked, i ended up losing alot of weight whilst drinking sugar free soda etc..

theres work arounds but u miss bread and shit!

>>39744437

I've been doing keto to keep under a weight limit for a military band audition for about a month.

It works and my diet was never truly terrible, but I do miss things like black bean pasta, beans in general, and other fibrous-y foods.

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>>39747291
People underestimate how powerful fasting is.

if you want to get into ketosis

it is the fastest and most effective way

here is a video that explains the mechanisms

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wb-XexfkEY

>>39744437
Keto is effective but it can be downright dangerous. I did for 3 months and lost about 30 KG, but it was way to extreme and i would never do it again

>>39748011
>it can be downright dangerous

Expand on that please

>>39748024
It could slowly damage heart and other organs

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10889799

>>39748024
This is some copy pasta:
> The effects of low carbohydrate diets on insulin sensitivity depend on what is used to replace the dietary carbohydrate, and the nature of the subjects studied. Dietary carbohydrates may affect insulin action, at least in part, via alterations in plasma free fatty acids. In normal subjects a high-carbohydrate/low-GI breakfast meal reduced free fatty acids by reducing the undershoot of plasma glucose, whereas low-carbohydrate breakfasts increased postprandial free fatty acids.

High serum free fatty acids are implicated in various disease states, especially immune related (and also diabetes in some cases). High serum FFA and very low trigs that we see among those who VLC are associated with nascent autoimmunity, especially rheumatic autoimmunity.

Also, ketoacidosis is the true danger. You can avoid it by eating carbs moderately (20-50g) but the level where you enter ketoacidosis depends on your physiology. It's a tightrope where you get a lot of adverse effects if you eat too little carbs and get thrown out of ketosis if you eat too many.

>>39744437

I tried it except I was more like 60 protein 35-40 fat and 0-5 carbs depended on the day. I got fine results but because I wasn't eating bread or grain based products, my calorie intake was prolly cut a lot more than it ever has been. I didn't count calories so I can't say that for sure. My legs got hella lean, and I began to see my core shaping.

I'm at that stage at the moment. I have slightly visible abs with a lot of fat still clinging to portions of my body. In the 8 or so weeks I did it, I would estimate I went from something like 25+% BF to about 18. I used to be a fat ass but now have some gains. I'd say keto works but I've never done it with the actual "le keto diet" macros. How would anyone want only 25% protein?

What is this no hunger bullshit? I am in day 3 and I'm so goddamn hungry. I've already eaten something like 5 or 600 calories today when I usually don't get hungry until noon. Now I have to pace myself.

I'm trying to eat around 1500 calories a day, which is about as much as I was eating before.

>>39748073
Really? Three days in and you haven't yet experienced the benefits of low-carb eating? Stunning!

How are carbs not an essential macro? Everyone shills that x is not important. They all fucking are.

>>39748108
I'm not complaining that I haven't lost much weight yet. I'm complaining that it was specifically advertised as a no-hunger diet.

>>39744437
>>39748072

At the end of the day, I would say instead of doing a keto diet for your cut, start IF'ing. Eat your calorie intake in an 8 hour window and fast for 16 hours. You'll melt the fat just as easy as any keto diet suggests without having to sacrifice those tasty and easy meal planning carbs. If you're still picky about the carbs, just eat them as your way of breaking the fasting period and then don't eat them for the rest of the day. That will digest them early. If you choose to do this, I'd recommend oats or potatoes for long lasting carbs though. You'll just be hungry from time to time, but that shouldn't be a problem if you want to be lean.

>>39748116
>humans have been eating grains for the last ~5% of their history, therefore carbs are essential

>>39744538
>falling this hard for the supplement jew
Yes yes goy, no need for real food. Just eat this pill I made for you.

>>39748116
you dont know what essential means

Keto can stop tumor growrh

>>39748238
STFU

>>39748166
>Grains contain carbs, therefore all carbs must come from grains

>>39748269
Nuts, seeds, and vegetables are all permitted on keto.

>>39748238
so does killing yourself

>>39748255
>>39748392
Let me guess, know some weak willed cancer victims?

The science is sound, but enjoy your ignorance.

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>Carbohydrates? Haven't eaten a gram in months, I'm actually in the process of having carbohydrates removed from my local grocery store. They should be removing them next week. I had to list a reason(s) on the complaint form as to why carbohydrates are bad for humans and should be removed from all stores. Would you care to hear the reasons? Well stay tuned my friend. 2 reasons;

>1. Carbohydrates are literally poison
>2. Insulin is to blame for my poor health

>My local grocer was initially questioning my reasons, but I explained to her that by banning carbohydrates and eating a ketogeninc diet, humans are actually able to perform better and not have insulin cause weight gain. After a long and dry (note that I didn't need any dry foods such as breads, pasta, fruit) debate, I was able to convince her to remove carbohydrates from her store. Now I am living a great life, carb free. I even started forcing my gf to remove all forms of carbohydrates from her diet. I refuse to date an inferior female, and I explained to her they is she can't learn to accept and love a fatty diet as i have then we really have no business being together anyways.

>She's already received a black mark for questioning my NoFap practices stating that she wants my seed and wishes me to release my seed. Should she continue in this non-stoic fashion then I don't see us lasting much longer.

>>39748476

ass-mad carb addict detected lol

>>39748476
>the only thing i need more than cock is insulin

>>39744499
Tell me what your daily diet looks like that has 70% of your calories coming from protein.

>>39748024
You're intentionally releasing acidic ketones into your bloodstream. There's a reason 0 doctors anywhere recommend this fucking meme diet.

>>39748583
Yeah, you're right, glucose serves no essential function and if it did, gluconeogenesis would definitely be the best way to go about making sure it was taken care of.

>>39744476
>>39744524
sticks are a meme - you can look up exactly why but they're not exactly accurate beyond telling if you're in keto. if there's any ketones, you are in - the color really only changes with hydration level beyond that.
>>39744488
>>39747152
i strongly believe that the protein kicking you out of keto thing is overblown - I have had upwards of 200g a day and stayed in. i think the key is making sure it isn't a huge quantity of fast digesting protein in one go, for example taking a protein shake with 3 scoops with water.


keto isn't for everyone. i noticed slightly better and more stable energy levels, but really no difference in fat loss. in the end, calories in and calories out is what matters - keto just makes it a little easier to keep that at a manageable level because in some people it makes you significantly less hungry.

>>39748772
actually there are several reasons so few doctors recommend it

>big sugar
>big pharma
>ignorance

>>39748772
>implying all acidic things are bad for you

>>39748132
doesn't work that way for everyone. usually takes a month or so to become fully adapted and to see the full benefits, but me personally I remained hungry all the time. i'm very active throughout the day however and already very lean which may have a lot to do with it.

>>39748888
yea dohh
im based af

thanks for the scientific and accurate answer!
thanks bro for your science

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>>39744499

>+70% protein diet

I thought you Neandertals were extinct.

>>39747238

>http://www.nature.com/ejcn/journal/v67/n8/full/ejcn2013116a.html

The author "J S Volek" works for the Atkins Foundation and directly profits from promoting keto diets, so take things with a grain of salt.

>>39748861
Doctors are aware of what metabolic syndrome is and what its causes are.

>>39748888
You think the fact that citrus is acidic makes it okay for your blood to be acidic too?

>>39744437
There's no single diet superior to the Mediterranean one, seriously.
Glad I grew up in one mediterranean country

>>39749060
If they're aware that chronically elevated insulin causes metabolic syndrome, why aren't they recommending keto?

>>39748688

36 egg whites and 2 multivitamins

>>39749156
Because acidosis causes organ failure and death.

The keto community are like the weed smoking community

>the vocal part are annoying and irrationally defend it claiming it's life changing and the answer to anything when really they're justifying a shit lifestyle
>the silent ones do it every once and a while, don't really talk about it, just enjoy the benefits but don't let it run their life

>>39749169
Ketoacidosis has very little to do with ketosis.

>>39749156

Chronically elevated insulin levels are caused by compensation for insulin resistance, not your macronutrient profile. Type 2 beetus is caused by being fat.

>>39749230
I meaaaann, the two play into each other for sure.

>>39749204
Shitloads of ketones in your bloodstream means you're not too far from ketoacidosis. Why not just eat a potato or some rice now and then?

>>39749259
>Shitloads

Nowhere close to enough for ketoacidosis.

You'd need to fast for twenty days to have about half the amount necessary.

>>39749306
>fast for twenty days
We call that "starving," anon. Either way, there aren't any real benefits to keto aside from maybe better hunger control, and there is at least some risk of organ damage even without full-on ketoacidosis. There's no reason to be scared of carbs in you do resistance training multiple times a week.

>>39749156

For one, chronically elevated insulin isn't the cause of diabetes. Diabetes is identified by high blood sugar caused by insulin resistance. Secondly, they don't recommend keto because a healthy diet addresses the underlying problem better.

>>39749357
>We call that "starving," anon.

I didn't post that as a suggestion, I was highlighting how unlikely ketoacidosis is.

>There's no reason to be scared of carbs

There's also no reason to eat grains/starches/sugar.

>>39749383
>Diabetes is identified by high blood sugar caused by insulin resistance.

And insulin resistance is caused by chronically elevated insulin.

>>39749399
>no reason to eat grains/starches/sugar.

My man, I'm telling you there is not one athlete performing at a high level who avoids all of those things. How do you get through a week of football practice without pasta and potatoes?

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>>39749357
>Either way, there aren't any real benefits to keto aside from maybe better hunger control

So using more fats for any given exercise effort instead of CHO isn't a benefit?

>>39749448
This matter for ultramarathoners "maybe" and that's about it.

>>39749399

No, insulin resistance causes hyperinsulinemia, not the other way around. Insulin resistance is caused by lack of exercise, inflamation, lipotoxicity, and changes in expression caused by nutrient receptors on cells being overly stimulated. IE: being fat

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>>39744499
>Swap the fat percentage with the protein percentage

Protein poisoning (also referred to colloquially as rabbit starvation, mal de caribou, or fat starvation) is a rare form of acute malnutrition thought to be caused by a complete absence of fat.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protein_poisoning

This will actually kill you.

YOU NEED HIGH FAT TO AVOID GLUCONEOGENESIS

WHOLE POINT OF THE DIET IS TO MIMIC FASTING SO IF YOU LIKE GO FULL PROTEIN BRO YOUR BODY WILL CONVERT SHIT TO GLYCOGEN AND GIVE YOU INSULIN SPIKES.

>>39749032
>directly profits from promoting keto diets
Pardon my ignorance, but how does that work? How can someone profit from telling someone else how to adjust their grocery shopping?

There are also three other authors.

>>39751477

Sales of diet books, energy bars, supplements, etc. The stuff that made Robert Atkins a millionaire. He even mentions "The Atkins Diet" in that paper.

>>39750897
this

>>39750897

>thought to be caused by a complete absence of fat

Thought by who? There's no reference for that.

>>39748037
>2016
>Believing the government
>Are you retarded?