Daily reminder that, as a natty, if you don't follow a heavy

I follow a heavy compound based ppl

problem?

>>39617960
Agreed. Period.

>>39617960
this is what's messing with me - I'm following a compound based routine but can't progress and no results, but here comes the fucking Chads in the gym with their 1-hour left bicep workout and look fuckin huge. You gonna tell me all of them are juicing?

>>39617960
I herniated a disc when I was 12 so I can't do squat/deadlift/OHP.

I have no choice OP.

>>39619990
They focus on getting a pump. Compound lifts don't give you a pump, especially if you stop at 5 reps.

>>39619990
you arent eating enough

sleep more
eat more

CMON

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>>39617960
I'm doing a bro split of compound lifts followed by accessories. HOW FUCKED AM I

Why is everyone so concerned about what others are doing?
Just lift however and whatever you want and shut the fuck up, OP.

>>39619990
You'd be surprised how many fuckers are juicing.

That said upper body does tend to respond to lots of volume, if all you do is 5x5 bench and ohp with maybe a db set or two you're holding yourself back

>>39619990
There are other ways to cause overload, apart from tension. This shouldn't be a new concept I hope?

>>39620125
Combination of low rep hgih weight compounds and lower weight accesories is the best

>>39620125
>>39620165
unless you overwork during accessories and stunt your growth from the compounds

you should only have one accessory per body group during a workout

and if youre working out 5 days a week jst kill yourself

>>39620176
Thanks for the laugh.

>>39619990

If you want to gain size, train x12.

Compounds, and then isolation excercises.

Chad is smart. Chad gets his advice from ripped dudes- ripped dudes tell Chad 'Man do compounds but make sure you hit your biceps and triceps with isolations too!' 'Man train in sets of 10-12 it's ideal for size gains'

Chad thinks 'Man this ripped guy told me to do it I'm gonna do it'.

Chad does it and Chads arms blow up, he still has a strong core and back from the compounds, he looks good.

Contrast this with DYEL fit incel. Dyel fit incel just does SL 5 x5 or SS, never sees any progress other than huge unasthetic quads that aren't proportional to his physique

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>>39620197
>tfw I didn't follow OP's advice, and ran a natty brosplit so I look like shit. Pic related.

>>39620197
Never done this 5x5 thing, always hitted more reps, but still bicepslet because genetics.

>>39620240
>When. Will. They. Learn.

>>39620197
They never see any progress because they run peaking programs with low volume. A bro split based on compounds will beat it 9 times out of 10. The simple fact is that "Chad" outworks.

Take chest, for example:

Internet lifter
Bench 5x5 with 60 kg -1200 kg

Bro lifter
Bench 5x12 with 40 kg - 2400 kg
Decline bench 5x12 with 50 kg - 3000 kg
Flat dumbells
Chest flies
Machine flies
Arms x A LOT

He is already doing TWICE the amount of work with his bench press and continues to pack on volume on it. You don't stand a chance.

>>39620276
Nice try. Look at the doorhandle position. The thing above the emoji is also a jacket, I can see where the confusion lies though.

>>39617960
>lul bait meme fag

Underage b& when

>>39620278

Yep. More volume, more progress.

I forgot to add that.

Internet lifter: '4chan told me that too much volume is bad as a natty! I will overtrain!'

Chad: FUARK BRO MORE VOLUME MORE GAINS! MORE PUMP MORE GAINS! WANNA LIFT TILL MY SHIT IS SORE!

Guess who looks better?

(Chad)

>brosplit based on compounds

What I've been doing I think is ideal for natties.

I lift 3.5 days a week. Very simple. Lift day, rest day.

One lift day, I do a fuckload of volume. I lift for 3 hours.

All my shit is pumped and fucking sore as fuck.

This has to be ideal for natties. It feels so GOOD.

ARNOLD NEVER LIED ABOUT PUMP.

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>>39620312
Yup - you can never do TOO MUCH work. Train 3-4 days a week with a volume program and you will gain aesthetics. Even something like Sheiko 3-day + a day for bodybuilding will fit the bill as an introduction.

Just start doing some more WORK. Enough with this 5x5 bullshit. If you want results, you need to work for them. Look at the "champions" of those routines - Blaha and Medhi. Do you want to be like them or do you want to be like "Chad" or pic related?

>>39620292
Door handles don't start at your elbows unless you're like 5 feet tall. They're at wrist height. Sorry m8

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>>39620197
>>39620278
>>39620312
>>39620339

>>39620353
>making shit up because he's so short he doesn't know any better
Manlet detected.

>>39620473
Lol. Continue doing your "optimal" training that has brought nothing but fail in its wake. All of the good physiques I have seen have come from splits. Nobody (apart from forum lurkers) has done or does your vaunted routines.

>>39620545
Correct. Strangely, no one irl ahs ever heard of SS/SL or whatever is hip now on the internet. Everyone who looks the part does a split.

I do Candito's 6 week strength program. I've seen some pretty good gains, been running it for the past 12 weeks. On my third cycle of it now.

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>BREAKING NEWS
>SS is a meme

>>39620559
>pretts good gains
So you bench 50 lbs now?

>>39620551
The biggest irony is that the people doing SS/SL will get more out of a bro split, while the split guys will get more out of the SS/SL.

Here's something for you all before I blast off the gym:

Bench/Assistance/Arms/Abs
Squat/Assistance/Arms/Abs
Row/Assistance/Arms/Abs
Bench/Assistance/Arms/Abs

Here's your starting point, now start modifying.

>>39620564
>pretts

nice try buddy

>>39620568
>while the split guys will get more out of the SS/SL
Doubt.jpg

Get what? More bodyfat? Bad clean technique?

>>39620559
Yeah, loading up on a lot of volume tends to drive progress.

>>39620569
>he doesn't deny it
>instead goes for the typo like a pencil-necked ubernerd
Wew lad. Enjoy your 50 lbs bench, then.

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>it's a brosplitters think SS/SL has no arm/physique accessories in it if you do it correctly episode

reminder that brosplitting is RETARDED and you will get much more out of SS/SL or PPL or and upper/lower split

>>39620583
Reality disagrees, though.

>>39620573
A higher max you mongoloid. Splits are good for building muscle which couch potato beginners need. SS/SL are good at realising your strength potential. If you have more muscle, you will have a higher strength potential.

Anyway, I am off.

>>39620578
ok buddy will do!

>>39620339
You can absolutely do too much work. There's this thing called "overtraining". That's partly why programs like SS have low volume.

>>39620278
Except Chad only does chest on chest day. Internet lifter can do bench three times a week, the higher frequency is much more important than packing in as much volume as you can into one day a week.

>>39620573

A higher max, moron. If doing splits make you look awesome now, think what the same volume with heavier weights would do to you.

>>39620585
just because chads that were already jacked before they started lifting at whatever gym you go at look strong doesnt mean theyve made the most progress in the least amount of time

you dont see people going from skelly to ripped doing 5 day brosplits and only working chest once a fucking week

>>39619990
OP literally says
>Nothing wrong with hitting your arms after your compounds

I've gotten stretch marks on my biceps since I started doing 3x8-12 bicep curls at the end of my workouts. Eat more if you're not seeing progress

>>39620292
I'm a fucking 6' manlet and door handles are by my waist. What kind of giant country do you live in

>>39617960
You need to add volume to your workouts.

Basically if you aren't doing at least say 25 sets and getting a fair amount of reps in per workout and going hard you are probably hindering yourself.

Just up the volume and eat more, and make sure to track your shit. More volume = more gains up to a certain point, obviously it caps out because over training can occur. When your body adjusts to the volume (which it will) your progress will stagnate.

basically what these guys said

>>39620197
>>39620278

>>39617960
Before any further discussion can you post your body with timestamp?

>>39620339
Please explain more. Are you saying we should keep doing more sets (Maybe with lower reps) after exhaustion on the final set?

>>39620632
no, actually it isn't

training volume is the single biggest determinant of training effect, as has been shown in literally every scientific study of lifting ever made

higher frequency is just a more effective way of splitting up this volume (to an extent - some large overloading workouts where you get a lot of volume at once are necessary for hypertrophy later on, Mike Israetel has some stuff about this if you want to read more)

if you do 30 reps of bench a week split into 2 days, and chad does 90 reps of flat bench, incline, and then direct tricep, chest, and delt work in one day, he has still outworked you by a wide margin and will see better results

>>39620627
you don't understand programming

SS has low volume because the entire point is recovering enough to PR your very next workout

with Sheiko, you don't fully recover for literally months, you are constantly fatigued until you enter the competition cycle and your volume goes down

actually "overtraining" (you break yourself and see a massive performance decrease) is very very different from being acutely fatigued due to training (you feel a bit weaker), none of us have the time or work capacity to actually overtrain except maybe Norsefat

Low volume high intensity compounds are only for beginners.
If you do a beginners routine for two years no shit you're not gonna make good gains.
That said if you actually do the programs you should still up much stronger than the average chad at the gym

>>39620353
I'm 6'2 and the door handle is by my wrist so I can confirm
>>39620240
is a small framd manlet

>>39620339
Pls, recommend me good beginner program.

>>39617960
OP is right

>>39619990
>look
that's the problem, people focused on looking
You can build strength both ways, but long slow reps with high reps will always beat up the muscle and make it swell up. That doesn't mean those are quality muscle fibers though, I learned that the hard way when I used to bodybuild and some average looking powerlifter 20 pounds lighter than me could outlift the fuck out of me

>>39621303
Monday: chest/ tris
>5x12 bench
>5x12 incline bench
>5x12 decline dumbbell flys
>4x10 decline dumbbell bench
>3x20 tricep pushdown
>5x14 skull crushers

Tuesday: back and bis
>5x12 lat pulldowns
>5x12 dumbbell rows
>5x12 upright rows
>3x8 deadlift
>3x20 hammer curls
>21s
>3x20 preacher curls
>3x20 decline dumbell curls
>3x12 ezbar curls

Thursday: shoulders
>3x12 lateral raises
>5x12 military press
>5x12 shoulder press machine
>3x12 reverse flys

Friday legs
>5x12 leg press
>5x12 squat
>5x12 hamstring curl
>5x12 knee extensions
>5x12 calf raises

>>39621361
>quality fibers

lots of uneducated broscience up in here

strength is a skill, especially strength at the squat/bench/deadlift

if you don't train those in high percentages of your 1rm, you will not be able to lift as much on those movements as someone who does

it has fuck all to do with your muscle fibers not being "quality" if you lift with higher reps and everything to do with specificity

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>>39620197
>aesthetics fags

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Some russian beginner routines. Compare to SS/SL. What do you think about them?

Bench focus, AxBxCxx
A
Bench 5x5
OHP 3x5
Squat 5x5
Pull ups 3xf

B
Bench 5x6
Dips 5x6-8

C
Bench 5x8
OHP 3x5
Deadlift 5x5
Pull ups 3xf


Another beginner routine, AxBxCxx. For two-three months. Weights in compound barbells exercises - if easy + 5kg to lower body exercises and + 2.5kg to upper.
A
Hyperextensions 2x10
Bench 3x5 (light), 5x2
Squat 3x5 (light), 5x2
Bench 4x4 (light)
Pec flies 5x10

B
Hyperextensions 2x10
Incline bench 3x6 (light), 4x2
Deadlift 4x2
Lats pulldowns 2x10
OHP 4x4 (ramping)
BTNOHP 2x12
DB lateral raises 2x12
DB shoulder press 2x10

C
Hyperextensions 2x10
Squat 3x4 (light) 4x4
CG bench 3x5 (light) 5x3
French press 2x12
Bicep curls 3x10
Front squat 2x5 (light) 5x3
Tricep pulldowns 2x12
Hammer curls 2x10
Shrugs 2x12

>>39621390
First one is minimalist,so its better to do SS instead.
Second one is decent too,but ICF would work better.

>>39621385
>2 sets of somewhere between 5-10 reps light warmup
>6 sets of progressive 5-1 reps

You'll get er' done that way
However I have to admit once in a while I go ahead and do some high reps in problem areas, such as my chest which has always been the part I need to work on, arms, legs, shoulders, and everything else come easy

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One more russian beginner routine, pretty general

A
Squat 5x5
Bench 5x5
W. dips 3x8
Goodmornings 3x10
Calves 2x15
Abs

B
Deadlift 3x5
Barbell rows 3x8
Shrugs 2x20
Bench 3x5
Hyperextensions 3x12
Abs

C
Squat 3x5
Bench 5x5
OHP 3x8
CG bench 3x8
Goodmornings 3x10
Calves 3x15
Abs

>>39621435
>Russian beginner routine
>Posts Georgian commie

>>39620632
Internet lifter does 50 sets of bench when he benches twice a week. "Chad" does that with only 2 exercises. You are still at a deficit there, champ.

>>39620740
No, that's what I have seen time and time and time and time again. A kid goes into the gym 5 days a week, trains like a maniac and eats like a maniac and gets fucking huge. From what I see on the forums it's the same shit - form checks (hint, if you can't perform a body squat and a good pushup you shouldn't be doing barbell movements), high-school level benches and endless masturbation over 140kg squat which can be achieved in 6 months of REAL training, not SS.

>>39620911
There are a lot of ways to structure volume. Look into Juggernaut Method and Sheiko 3-day to get a better idea.

>>39621303
Basically this:>>39621363

>>39621361
Yeah because he has trained himself to max. That's what programs like SS/SL do - they teach you how to max out your current strength levels.

>>39621435
Do Sheiko's beginner routine.

>>39617960
>muh bro splits

>muh arms

Sorry to see you have shit tier genetics senpai but brosplit + arms day is working out fantastic for me

>>39621172
>low volume high intensity is for beginners
Every sane person ever would disagree with you.

>if you do the programs
I never understood this argument. "Beginner" programs produce wildly different results because not all beginners are created equal. If you have a guy who has been doing sports for the past 3 years, his strength will be high. If you have a guy who just got his ass from the sofa then there is a chance he won't be able to even perform the movements.

Are there any apps for brosplits similar to the SL app?

>>39621618
Arms aren't shit for me, I go to the gym on a lazy day and go get a little brosplit arm day done

>>39621651
No. the weight doesn't matter. Its all about volume and 'feeling the contraction'

>>39617960
Depends on your goals. I've followed this guy for a while on youtube, he has never been aesthetic.

bro splits will always be GOAT for actually looking good

>>39621651
No. Raise your main lifts at the end of each month by how much you think you would be able to lift.

>>39618020

Why would I have a problem with you making shit gains over a gay high volume routine?

I don't give a shit you DYEL motherfucker

>>39621667
>weight doesn't matter
bodymemers

Chad usually just does solely upperbody with maybe some lip service to legs. Why the fuck are we so obsessed with leg strength when almost every guy coming here just wants to look good naked?

It all depends on your goals.

If all you want is "aesthetics" you don't even need to go to the gym. Just do some pullups, pushups and crunches and make sure you have low bodyfat.

If you want to be a bodybuilder, start taking steroids.

If you want to be a strength athlete, do a sport-specific training program.
(and get a coach)

If you want to be all-round strong, healthy and look good, do a balanced routine that includes
>heavy compounds in the 3-6 rep range (squat, bench, deadlift, press, row)
>volume compounds in the 5-10 set range (also consider variations of the main compounds, like incline bench, front squat, RDL, ...)
>bodyweight exercises in the 50-100 total rep range (pushups, chinups, dips)
>a few isolations for whatever is lacking (1-2 per workout)
>ab work (every day)
>(optional: explosive exercises: push press, clean, snatch, box jumps ...)
>do cardio

>>39621729
because this place is an autistic circlejerk

>>39621729
Because of the Internet's version of broscience. SS and SL became so popular as a reaction against the commercial lifter who was only training upper body and maybe doing some leg press. Maybe.

It comes with a sense of smug superiority that is annoying beyond belief. Here's the truth - nobody cares about your leg development if your upper body is anemic.

Then you have the whole nerdiness of the Internet. SS and SL are the "one true way to make natty gains". It's like a WoW quest or something.

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>>39621733
/thread

>>39620197
>If you want to gain size, train x12.
I'm doing squats 3 times a week and now I have to do them twelve times that? I suspected ss was a troll but I'm no gonna squat 36 times a week

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>>39621784
You do 1 set 1 rep per day?

I just hope this "powerlifting" fad dies out in the next 2-3 years.

>>39621838
bodybuilder fag, go do 100 reps with 5 pound dumbbells or something

>>39621905
Lol. Unless you compete you are not a powerlifter - you are just a wanabe bodybuilder that brags about his gym total. Fuck, I remember when everyone was all about machines and P90x or whatever it's called. How times change.

>>39621923
P90X is honestly probably better than the shitty meme 15 sets in total a day routines that infest the net today

MORE VOLUME = BETTER NO MATTER FUCKING WHAT

>>39621936
It was getting recommended a lot way back when. The guys that ran it ended up leaner and were ready for the beach.

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>>39621923
All that matters is functional strength, which bodybuilderfaggots will always fall behind on

Literally every bodybuilderfag will tell you not to do weighted crunches because it makes your waist bigger. Literally what?
Aesthetics faggots crack me up with their shitty less functional workout plans

At the end of the day as long as we workout in some way I guess props bros

>>39621970
I respect people who do shit like starting strength less than people who don't do anything.
The people who don't go to the gym admit they don't do anything. SS faggots don't do anything and then have the audacity to think they make progress and that they're better than other people

>>39621970
All strength is functional bro. Bodybuilders are strong but they don't focus on it and build their training around having an aesthetically-pleasing body.

That said, the single/multi ply guys and strongman competitors are beasts.

fucks brehs
i find this thread very unsettling
rate my routine

push:
2s squats
3s bench press
3s chest flyes
3s OHP
3s lateral raises
3s weighted dips
2s skullcrushers
3s hanging leg raises
3s some calf work

pull:
2s deadlift
3s weighted pullups
3s barbell rows
1s to failure machine rows
3s barbell curls
3s weighted situps

3 workouts per week

>>39622036
But breh >>39620985

>>39621659
How long lifting + pic of arms

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>>39617960
This thread hurts my brain, im desperatly searching for the bait but I just cant find it.

natty brosplits are retarded. do PPL or something.

strength will result in mass unless you outright neglect upper body besides a few sets a week of bench and OHP.

the guy who can do 3x5 pull ups with 30kg attached pretty much always looks better than the 'bodybuilder' dyel supersetting pulldowns and rows.

get strong, do it right and you'll see good gains. then go on 5/3/1 or something and you'll look better than anyone on a brosplit could ever hope to.

>>39617960
This is all I do and I make faster progress than any other noobs I see in the gym by using progressive overload

>A
>Overhead Press 3x5
>Deadlift 3x5
>Curl 3x5-8
>Band Facepull 3xF
>Dips 2xF

>B
>Bench 3x5
>Squat 3x5
>Pullup 3x5-8
>Band Facepull 3xF
>Dips 2xF

>>39620740
>just because chads that were already jacked before they started lifting
Haha, that's the argument you're going with, mr. fortune teller? baka how fucking sad.

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>>39621155
>none of us have the time or work capacity to actually overtrain
What washed up internet lifter comes up with all this bullshit?

Wanna overtrain? You can do that easily. Do 500 pushups in how many sets it takes for you. Repeat daily. Come back to me after a month and tell me you're not overtrained.

>>39621705
Nubret never went over 225 lbs on bench. Other weights were also low. Just like with everyone else at the time. Watch Pumping Iron, the weights are fucking lightweight.

>>39621729
Big legs = feminine proportions. It's for fags and took on a life of his own.

Think about it, this whole pwoerbuilding movement is gay as fuck:
Bench for titties
Squats for dem thighs
Diddlies for dat ass
+ higher bodyfat to become soft to the touch.

Why are you turning yourselves into women, FFS?

>>39622453
>Watch Pumping Iron

Watched
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hnPwR3QcCU

I did a bastardized version of SS for 2 months earlier this year - replaced cleans with OHP and didn't add weight to each exercise every workout (shits way too much, idk how people do progressive overload without already starting small. )

But still, these were the best gains I've ever had. Especially for my legs/butt and back. Stopped progressing in bench but the gains I saw in those 2 months were the best I've ever had. Had to stop the program cause I was eating a lot and started to see some stretch marks forming

>>39621733
>To be healthy
>do sets of 3 in the Big Three
>do sets of trible digit BWE
You aren't a doctor.

>>39622467
I don't think I'd be able to increase weights every week without eating that much, though

>>39621784
You lower the weight massively for that kind of volume. It will pump your muscles up which is fucking shit the first few times and gety enjoyable later on.

Side effects: Muscle mass and endurance skyrocket, strength doesn't change that much. Remember, Tom Platz only squatted 100 lbs less than Hatfield, which is nothing when it comes to squats. He could rep submaximal weights for more than double the reps of Hatfield, though.

Basically, your choice is:
>Fat with small muscles, injured, maximum strong, no speed, no endurance, no athleticism
or
>lean with big muscles, not injured, slightly less strong, enormous endurance, can eat everything you want, metabolism goes up and up and up, can start any sport right away and be so-so at it at the least

For me, the choice is clear.

>>39622459

Husbando mode is not feminine, it is the epitome of manliness

>>39621970
>All that matters is functional strength, which bodybuilderfaggots will always fall behind on
You are delusional. Endurance is king irl in ANY physical job and bodybuilders have loads of endurance.

>>39621986
>be a beginner running SS with accessories and eating like a motherfucker
>breaking PRs every time you go to the gym
>adds 15lbs to squat and deads, 7.5 to bench and OHP PER WEEK.
>not doing anything

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>>39622192
>strength will result in mass
Oldest lie in the book.

>>39622492
>big ass, big thighs, small calves, big flat bench tits
>manly
Look at a Greek statue and then at a powerlifter. I rest my case.

>>39622503
>>adds 15lbs to squat and deads, 7.5 to bench and OHP PER WEEK.
That's not really impressive for noob gains, boy.

>>39622514

The guys those statues were based on used AAS.

>>39622508
Yup. All of the big guys are strong, not all of the strong guys are big. Mass moves mass, so focus on training that maximises your mass and not your strength for the best results.

>>39622473
>do sets of 3 in the Big Three
What's wrong with that
>do sets of trible digit BWE
I didn't say that. I said "total reps" as in, do sets of 10-20 reps until you reach your total rep goal.

>>39620197
>>39620278
>>39620312
>>39620339
Is this all just bait? Please tell me it's all just bait

>>39622488
>>Fat with small muscles, injured, maximum strong, no speed, no endurance, no athleticism
>or
>>lean with big muscles, not injured, slightly less strong, enormous endurance, can eat everything you want, metabolism goes up and up and up, can start any sport right away and be so-so at it at the least

wtf are you on about.

>>39621363
Recommending this as a beginner program... Truly we have seen the death of /fit in our lifetime

>>39621569
Please don't genuinely be this stupid

>>39617960
>Not even memeing, natty bro split fags are wasting their fucking time
Oh but OP, how will they get their qt3.14 gf if they don't have a uselessly big upper body, even though they have no practical use whatsoever for it? xD

>>39622508
exceptions exist

most people with relatively low body fat who can 1.5/3/4/5 look good.

>>39622680
>most people
>1.5/3/4/5

Brosplits is how everyone got /fit/ for years before internet memers got kids thinking they need to do a strength program to get an aesthetic looking body.
Those are good for beginnes because they focus on learning the compound exercises, but once you get that done, you should do a split. Also lol at the DYELs who think PPL etc are not splits. Just because it's called Push, Pull, Legs instead of chest/tric/shoulders / back/bic / legs doesn't make it less of a split.

>>39622729
a "brosplit" is a routine where you train every muscle group only once per week.

yes, PPL, Upper/Lower, Push/Pull are all splits, but they're not brosplits

>>39622736
And it works.

This thread is absolute fucking cancer.
SS is a great BEGINNER program because once completed you're no longer lifting bitch weights for whatever program more tailored to your specific goal you choose to pursue.
For example when I started out I was just benching the bar, only squatting marginally more and had very little knowledge on nutrition or programming. There's no point at that level of strength doing fucking 15 sets of chest because 3 sets of bench are enough at that point to stimulate gains. It would be like working beyond your contracted hours at a job if you're not allowed overtime. The extra effort doesn't give you any additional benefit.

1 year on SS has put my lifts at or around intermediate (had a knee injury from sport that prolonged the process) I could move onto brosplit or equivalent lifting actual relatively heavy weights if I wanted to focus on aesthetics.
If you're already quite big simply from playing sport, high natural test etc and you start on a brosplit you're probably going to blow up in size fairly quickly, this in no way quantifies that a similar routine is going to work for the tiny guy who hasn't been eating enough.

Final point, for many people what they picture as a 'bodybuilder' in their head when they start is often totally unrealistic, with the desired body the result of steroids or an inordinate amount of gym hours put in. As natural lifters the difference in gains between a brosplit where you go 5 days a week and a moderate volume program 3 times a week are probably not overly significant. If you can sustain a 3 day a week program for 2 years but inconsistently do the 5 days on and off for 2 years due to time/effort constraints you're going to look a lot better on the 3 days.

>>39620559
Been running it for a year and all my lifts have exploded

Fantastic routine, just don't pussy out on the accessories

>>39619990
They most likely are juicing. Even the skinny twinks at my gym are half the time starting to cycle.

>>39621729
You don't look good naked with chicken legs and no ass though.

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>>39620240
Jesus Christ, how tall are you? 5 inches?

Literal retards ITT

>>39621139
Just because volume is the primary driver of hypertrophy doesn't mean than its the only driver. Your body only synthesizes muscle tissue 24-36 hours after exercise, frequency is very important.

There's also diminishing returns on volume after a certain point, which is why focus on one make every day is stupid and a waste of time.

>>39622664
the only guy in the thread who knows what he's talking about, and newfags who skimmed starting strength call him stupid

lmao

/fit/ is a complete joke outside of the general threads

>>39622924
Yes I'm sure he's literally the only guy in the thread who knows anything about strength and fitness.
None of us apart from this one guy in the entire thread knows fucking anything about programming.
The actual recommendation of SS, possibly the best beginner's program out there, to those starting out was the best thing about /fit/ back when I started browsing. Now we've got people not only recommending brosplit to any soul starting in the gym but people are defending them and branding these people the actual experts.
/fit/ has truly died.

>>39622728
what's your point? find me someone lean enough to have abs who can 1.5/3/4/5 and doesn't look good.

strength + low body fat = aesthetics, without spending 3 hours pumping up your triceps from 5 angles.

>>39622968
beginner program is almost irrelevant as long as you're doing bench, squat, and deadlift and looking to progress on it

picking a low volume beginner program like SS will also make you have a rough time transitioning to intermediate, because your work capacity will be a complete joke

read SS to learn the lifts, then do greg nuckols 28 free programs, beginner 3x bench and squat and 2x deadlift

>>39617960
>brosplits fags are wasting theirbfuckimg time
I knew 3 guys in high school that started doing a brosplit in freshman year and by senior year they were all really jacked and strong. I dont do a brosplit myself but youre fucking retarded if you think it isnt effective.

>>39623107
>as long as you're doing bench, squat, and deadlift and looking to progress on it

because that's what most people who do brosplits do.
Oh wait, no. The only compound they do is the bench. Because "how much you bench bro".

>>39623035
That I can be 190cm/75kg and still hit those numbers. I won't be aesthetic, I would be a fucking twig.

>>39623107
>beginner program is almost irrelevant as long as you're doing bench, squat, and deadlift and looking to progress on it
Exactly, so why over complicate this phase with a 5 day program and a bunch of unnecessary exercises that are probably going to drive a bunch of people away because they're unable to commit to that before they become hooked?

>Work capacity will be a complete joke
SS increases strength, you also do accessory lifts at higher volume and it specifically says to do cardio. Increasing strength in the untrained individual absolutely increases work capacity, that's some great broscience there.

>>39623130
Wow great anecdotal evidence there, could probably get that published. The fact isn't that brosplitting from beginner doesn't work it's that it's sub optimal for a massive proportion of the people who do it.
Of course some people are going to get jacked. However, the clear confines and layout of SS is far better to start off with that the boarderless 'brosplit' that gets newbies doing all kinds of unnecessary shit

>>39623163
But they are actually succeeding at their goal which is aesthetics. A person doing a squat-based routine for aesthetics has already failed. Why not take it a step further and recommend Smolov? I thought squats released growth hormones and trained the entire body, no?

>>39623178
>Exactly, so why over complicate this phase with a 5 day program

If people can train 5-days a week and want to train 5-days a week, they should.

>strength increases work capacity
Is that why SS/SL guys spend 5 minutes between sets?

>>39623166
i'm talking 5s. twigs can't OHP 80kgx5.

>>39620052
>your diet isn't perfect and you don't sleep enough
>but that dudebro who shows up once a week and only does curls and yet is bigger than you surely does have perfect nutrition and lifestyle to maximize gains :^)
>just push yourself harder LMAO

what it really is is genetics

alpha chad eats pizza and is still making more gains because your bodys response to resistance training is to a large part determined by

G E N E T I C S
E
N
E
T
I
C
S

>>39623187
You can achieve "aesthetics" by doing 30 pushups and pullups daily as long as you have low bodyfat.
>>39621733

>>39623227
For a beginner 5 days is too much, you're adding volume that does nothing to stimulate additional growth. If they enjoy it then go right ahead, they're not doing themselves a great deal of harm or anything. However, especially for people who work 5 days a week may be considered too big of a commitment. You're not getting more gains from the extra work so why bother with it?

The initial recommendation is 3 minutes between sets as you're training strength. If you think developing strength somehow reduces work capacity I'm expecting you to also think lifting heavy weights will make you slow?

>>39623278
>believing you need 8 hours of sleep
>believing you need perfect nutrition

Lol. Learn how to structure your training.

>>39623283
That's the point - you need to find a method that corresponds with your goals.

>>39623278
While genetics definitely plays a part stuff like not getting enough sleep and not eating enough is probably the more relevant limiting factor.
I blamed 'genetics' for 2 years of being a total DYEL and then I started actually eating enough and dramatically got bigger

>>39622508
ilya isn't the biggest but this is literally like taking that picture of kevin levrone when he was off cycle and fat and saying bodybuilding doesn't result in size

>>39623316
It depends on what you are training. If the bulk of the work is spent on upper body they will benefit from it because the upper body is weaker than the lower body.

Strength doesn't reduce work capacity - working constantly in high intensity brackets does.

doesn't strength somewhat condition your work capacity? if you lift serious weights for lesser reps, then low weight high rep sets should be your bitch. for example, if you're able to do a few pullups with a lot of weight attached, then you're able to do a shitload of bodyweight pullups. because those are light.

What people in this thread seem to forget is that. The majority of people on /fit/ spent at least half their life sitting on their chair browsing 4chan and playing vidya.

Chad was out playing sports, or hanging out with bro's/chicks. What you did in your childhood/teens matters a shitton for how you function today. So yeah, they will get result faster because theyve been properly using their body their entire life

>>39623364
I'd have to disagree with you there. A study on cyclists found that a group of individuals doing HIIT improved the same amount as another group doing steady state training.
By increasing the weights you can lift at maximum you are decreasing how heavy things are relative to your strength.
If you ask two people to squat 60kg for as many reps as possible, one being able to squat 80kg for 5 and the other being able to squat 120kg for 5 who is going to be able to do more? It's much closer to maximal effort for one than it is the other.

>>39623370
Exactly this

>>39623370
A bit but not enough. You will be able to do a set of 10 with 70% easily but if I force you to do 6 more with only 1 minute break between them you will be floored. You can lift more but your body isn't conditioned to recover rapidly between attempts. You see it all the time with people that switch from 5x5 to Sheiko or something similar - they usually complain that it's "too much" while if you have done a cycle of it, the second time it feels like nothing.

For reference, the guys that spend 2 hours doing Sheiko on their first cycle, cut it to 90 minute on their second one because their body is now accustomed to the density of work it needs to do.

>>39623326
i literally said the opposite you retard

>>39623327
post one scientific study on how an hour more or less sleep at night affect your gains. you cant. because it doesnt
chad pulls an allnighter when he parties and still makes gains
other people sleep 8-9 hours a night and still struggle to make gains

nutrition is a bigger factor but still unless youre malnourished and/or not at a caloric surplus it again affects your gains little
there are studies with literal non-responders to resistance training who only gained fat and no muscle despite lifting
yet people still spout memes like
>omg youre not pressing 2plate after a year, you obviously didnt eat enough vegetables/you need to push yourself harder

greg nuckols has a nice series of articles about this, what the stats of the average guy under supervised training really are. and theyre nowhere near what fit wants you to believe

>>39623370

Yes that is true. But none of that matters if you always ONLY do strenght workouts. Thats why its best to combine both. Either in a PHUL program, or by starting off workouts with heavy compounds and then moving on to hypertrophy accessories

>>39623426
This isn't about lifting the most weight, this is about doing the most work in a given time. A common complaint is that SS/SL takes 2 hours when the weight gets heavy. That's a Sheiko workout. Do you see what I am saying?

>>39623385
>Chad was out playing sports
Ding ding ding, we have a winner. If you are a couch potato that is starting out, you have no business running SS/SL. Focus on getting in shape first.

>>39623442
I can't find any studies because none really exist to provide evidence for either argument.
However, the effects of sleep on recovery, hormone release etc are pretty standard science. To deny sleep, which it's function is literally recovery, has any effect on weight training seems pretty stupid.
However, that's not to say the odd all nighter is going to do that much damage, it's more prolonged periods of sleep deprivation.

Nutrition is a massive part of progress in the gym. If you have a half cohesive program, are getting a rough 7-8 hours and are somehow making completely subpar/no progress to try and say it's all genetics is complete bullshit.

Genetics will limit you but to the extent that it holds you back is overplayed just like it is with determining why you're fat. Not making gains? Probably not eating enough. Fat? Probably eating too much.

>>39623482
Common complaint!?
How the fuck do you make a SS workout last 2 hours? That's on average 10 minutes for the set and rest including the accessory lifts afterwards. Even doing Texas Method you shouldn't be taking that much rest, don't blame a program for an individuals shortcomings.

You are doing more work in a given time, by increasing strength you are not only increasing what your 100% effort achieves you're also decreasing how fatiguing a set task would be as how far it is from your maximum effort it is would be increasing with strength.

>>39623482
>getting in shape first
How do you define 'in shape'?
What does an individual who just sits on the couch look like?
What sport was Chad playing?
You're treating terms that are incredibly all encompassing as very specific.

I don't come here too often but this is the highest amount of broscience I've seen in a single thread in a while
Only ones that sometimes top this amount of broscience is nutrition threads
And then people act surprised when they realize the average age here is like 18

>>39621733
This guy actually gets it

>>39623584
Because you end up working with weights that are your or higher than your 5RPM. Couple that with a beginner's already poor work capacity and you have a shit-show.

>don't blame a program for an individual's shortcomings
Why not? If a program isn't working, you change it or you drop it. If someone has to do everything 100% right for the program to work then it isn't a good program.

Your second point. You still can't get it. I am not talking about lifting the most amount of weight in a single set. I am talking about the density of work being done in a reasonable amount of time, say 90 min.

Here's an example - two guys are doing bench. Guy A has been doing SL for 5 months, Guy B has been doing Sheiko for 5 months. They have to complete 5 sets of 10 reps with 70% of their maxes in 20 minutes.If they complete the task and there is time on the clock they have to do more sets in those 20 minutes.

Guy A finishes in 15 min and does 2 more sets.
Guy B finishes in 10 min and does 4 more sets.

Starting to make sense?

>>39623620
I am doing the same as when people say "just do SS".

>>39623651
>people discussing lifting
>on a lifting board
Say it isn't so! We should stop and post more feel threads or >tfw no gf ones.

>>39622508
>intentionally using a pic of ilya off cycle during a year break because of injury.

>>39623702
>Because you end up working with weights that are your or higher than your 5RPM.
Except the program is telling you to use your 5 rep max, if you're using more it's not the program that has failed it is your ability to carry out basic functions like reading. Oh it also has a section about deloading so you can't even say it doesn't inform you about it.

> If a program isn't working, you change it or you drop it.
If the most foolproof beginners program isn't working chances are it might be you who is at fault.

>You still can't get it.
I understand work capacity.
Work capacity is the ability to perform real physical work as measured by force x distance / time (which is average power).
To explain this further it's not dependent on what percentage of your personal max you're doing.
I.e. you can have a higher capacity by moving something fucking massive a short distance rather than an insignificant amount of weight a really long way.
Neither Guy A nor Guy B can be have said to have done more work until you actually attach numbers to those that you can then put into the actual equation.

>>39621139
source

>>39623775
Right, I will continue using what happens in the real world while you continue preaching SS like it's the gospel. Anyway, I need to go to work and I am already late.

>>39623816
In the real world where someone asks you to lift 70% of your squat or bench rather than an actual object that weighs a set amount.

>>39622771
Fucking this, what's so hard to understand.

>>39622680
>>39623269

>Getting aesthetic isn't hard with powerlifting, just deadlift 5x5x500 lbs!!

hahaha kys moron.

>>39623178
Obviously my evidence is anecdotal but i will believe what i saw before my eyes over what you autists spout in here.

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>mfw this thread
Haven't seen so much cancer in one thread in a while

>>39617960
You're right and wrong in a few ways.
I've recently got into the IFBB (Men's Physique) scene myself, and even unnaturally not many people bother with brosplits.

Brosplits is fine for natties so long as they're not retarded. The split allows your muscles to recover in time for the next time you use them. I wouldn't recommend training back one day and then training legs the next.
On gear however, you should be good to go. Doms is almost non-existent. Personally, I enjoy Push-Pull-Legs 2x a week, although tend to train some shoulders during leg day, because my thighs get way too big because of how hardcore my workouts are.

In Eastern Europe, kids pretty much use hanging bars to do pull-ups during their teenage years, but come their mid 20s, and everyone in the gym is huge. Sure, they're all stacking all kinds of shit, but I've never felt so tiny anywhere in my life before. It's insane.

Anyway, Brosplits are fine if you're not retarded, but there are better splits. For natties, I'd probably recommend training 4 times a week, Push-Pull-Legs, while rearranging the other to make sure you're targeting your weakest muscle group 2 times a week.

Basically, Brosplits are only worth doing if you're trained for at least 2-3 years. Then you can focus on sizing up your calves (unless you're genetically gifted like I am) ;))

>>39624213
This is borderline retarded. I'm not even going to bother engaging with you

>>39620133
Because this is the internet and it's made for nosey, opinionated people.

I spent a few months doing a 5x5 PPL and now I'm doing the same routine but at 5x10 for a couple months during my bulk to maximize hypertrophy. I thought it was going to be a waste, because muh heavy lifts, but I trusted the advice I found from Scott Herman, Athlean-X, and basically everyone and to my surprise and relief the added volume is kicking my ass. Plus, the deload gave me an opportunity to revisit form and practice mind-muscle connection. For the first time, I got a burn in my lats from one-arm dumbbell rows, which felt fantastic.

You have to lift heavy, but you should also lift light. It's not an either/or thing. Both strategies have merit and a smart lifter will take advantage of both.

>>39620002
How old are you now? I've blown out my back a few times in my life .. Just take it easy and start again from low weight. Be very careful when you start reaching your limits and focus 110% on form.

Yoga and stretching will help too

>>39624378
>practice mind-muscle connection
Lay off the acid bruh.

>>39621155
>none of us have the time or work capacity to actually overtrain
That's where you're wrong, kiddo. Note the frequent rhabdo threads here, and remember that that's only severe overtraining.

>>39624427
well memed

>>39622453
>bodybuilder fags

>>39617960
Is this guy supposed to look bad or something? This is how I want to look, just a bit more shredded.

>>39621363
>he works chest once a week
>he works shoulders once a week
>he works back once a week
>he works legs once a week

HHAHAHAHAHAHAA

>>39623130
>it took them 4 years

thank you for proving our point